Most deadly NZ roads revealed in 5-year survey

[fliplid]

http://msn.nzherald.co.nz/metro/story.cfm?l_id=117&objectid=10489079
Browsing through the "news", came across this snippet...

I can understand how they could arrive at such an apparently wide range of differing types of roads in the collective risk section, but how did they work out the personal risk road list? Surely they would have needed an element of subjectivity in the latter list? Lost me...

Lies, lies and damned statistics!

[Headbanger]

http://msn.nzherald.co.nz/metro/story.cfm?l_id=117&objectid=10489079
Browsing through the "news", came across this snippet...

I can understand how they could arrive at such an apparently wide range of differing types of roads in the collective risk section, but how did they work out the personal risk road list? !

Reported accidents, severity of injuries, deaths.

Just a guess.

[mowgli]

Nah. It's simpler than that.


KiwiRAP spokesman Mike Noon said collective risk maps were based on the total number of crashes on a road, while personal risk maps are based on the likelihood of an individual being involved in a crash on that road.

On a stretch of road that scored the same number of crashes (same collective risk) the one with the least amount of traffic will have the higher personal risk. For example there are heaps of crashes on motorways (high collective risk) but because the volume of traffic is so large your chances of being involved in a crash are quite small (low personal risk).

[yungatart]

It's interesting that the Maramarua Rd doesn't even get a mention. I thought that was the "Killer Highway"?

[fliplid]

Was a bit suprised by the Drury-Pukekohe stretch actually... Poss due to the multi fatality factor when them kids "flew" off the road a couple of years ago, oh, and the stoopid overtaking stretch near NZ Hothouse!

[madandy]

So the Pollies have released new stats on the most dangerous roads in NZ based on numbers of fatalaties per km of road.
SH2 between Napier & Hastings is the meanset stretch of blacktop...
Among all the new stats comes the best finding...[only] 60 deaths per year could be saved if Kiwi's drove better! :argue:

[cooneyr]

It's interesting that the Maramarua Rd doesn't even get a mention. I thought that was the "Killer Highway"?

Seen this sort of thing plenty of times. The roads that the public think are dangerous are often treated with a higher degree of respect hence dont actually have than many crashes. The roads that drivers dont respect are more often ones that have a higher crash rate.

Cheers R

[Swoop]

Typical. Blame the "killer roads" instead of the fuc*ing hopeless kiwi drivers.


Also, why is this "group" called KiwiRAP?
Just shorten it to "KRAP" and be done with it.

Do they conduct studies in Canada, Cambodia, Columbia, etc?:whistle:

[Weaver]

Upper Hutt represent *does Upper Hutt gang signs (stacking)* In the top ten collective :Punk::headbang:

[Grub]

Jeez ... what is it with the Hawkes Bay??? The road into Napier from the south is #1 and the road north out of Napier is #3!!!

Ummm ... MSTRS? ... Yungatart? ... Zukin?

[the mouse]

The ride to Bluff will never be the same, reeediculous. There have been some fatalities, but at no fault of the road, all driver error.

[Conquiztador]

Jeez ... what is it with the Hawkes Bay??? The road into Napier from the south is #1 and the road north out of Napier is #3!!!

Ummm ... MSTRS? ... Yungatart? ... Zukin?

That #1 killer road is the expressway between Napier and Hastings. The problem has been the intersection at Meeanee. This one has now been fixed with a muti million dollar bridge and a weird 8 shaped thingy under. So that should cut the deaths down drastically on that road.

The one north from Napier has a problem with a junction just before you get to the airport. It is next in line for a multi million dollar fixup. (As soon as they have completed their study and got to the conclusion that yes, the intersection is poorly designed and some more bastards have died...)

But what always has bevildered me is that some useless road design engineer who designed that death trap can just say: "Ooops, got it wrong, lets spend a few millions more and fix it." And he is not held accountable for either the deaths OR the waste of tax payers money!!

[MisterD]

Sheesh, Rapaura Rd in Blenheim...but I can understand that, loads of wineries with tourists being slow/lost/ a bit pissed coupled with high speed Picton to Nelson traffic - logging trucks etc.

I rode my treadly along there once - never again.

[Grahameeboy]

So guess the Police on SH16 is nothing to do with safety then as SH16 does not get a mention.

[cooneyr]

But what always has bevildered me is that some useless road design engineer who designed that death trap can just say: "Ooops, got it wrong, lets spend a few millions more and fix it." And he is not held accountable for either the deaths OR the waste of tax payers money!!

I'll stick my neck on the block - if you hold the engineers accountable then no one would do the job. There is not enough engineers as it is. To me the real problem is the ethos of cheap as possible that has perpetrated the industry (from the top). If there was not an ethos of having to minimise the costs to get the Benefit Cost Ratio up so that the project is near the top of the list so it can get funding (bit more complicated that this now but didnt use to be) then projects would be better designed.

Benefit Cost Ratios is the reason behind the WRB's too.

Hit a nerve - never :D

Also as mentioned above don't mis under stand collective safety and personal safety.

Cheers R

[yungatart]

Jeez ... what is it with the Hawkes Bay??? The road into Napier from the south is #1 and the road north out of Napier is #3!!!

Ummm ... MSTRS? ... Yungatart? ... Zukin?


I really can't understand this one. It is not as though there really are heaps of accidents along either of thse roads. Neither road is "difficult" to negotiate either, so I guess it is just another example of people unable to drive.
More driver education needed....


That #1 killer road is the expressway between Napier and Hastings.

The one north from Napier has a problem with a junction just before you get to the airport. It is next in line for a multi million dollar fixup. (As soon as they have completed their study and got to the conclusion that yes, the intersection is poorly designed and some more bastards have died...)


It is not the Expressway. It is the coastal route through Clive. That is still considered SH 2 (Expressway is SH50)

The Airport intersection could be easily fixed with a huge big sign ...Reduce Speed. Major Intersection Ahead...as I have seen in Taupo and other places.
Not exactly rocket science is it??

[Hitcher]

Apparently SH53 is the most dangerous road in the Wellington region. Why? Because it is long, straight and has little traffic on it. These factors apparently conspire to make drivers go "faster" and to overtake in situations where they could collide with a vehicle going in the opposite direction. Lethal. Apparently. The fact that it rarely happens seems to have gone unnoticed by the Giant Brains of Transit. They could always install cheesecutter median barriers. Or judderbars. That would do it.

Dickheads and statistics should not be allowed to be alone with each other.

[Beemer]

Mmn, SH1 from Paraparaumu to Levin? And tell me again WHY they spent millions putting up wire rope barriers between Paekakariki and Pukerua Bay?

From memory, most of the fatal accidents along SH1 are due to driver error, not the road. Just the ones I can think of in the time I've lived in the Levin area - teenager doesn't give way at Manakau, loses control and collides with oncoming truck; two teenagers in a car with snow tyres lose control and collide with bridge; teenager falls asleep at wheel and hits tree; elderly couple pull out from gateway and get hit by oncoming traffic; elderly driver crosses centreline and hits oncoming vehicles; and there have been a few others where the driver either fell asleep, was overtaking in a dangerous place or they lost concentration and crossed the centreline into the path of oncoming traffic. All of those things could have happened at any time on any roads.

I have travelled SH1 literally thousands of times and although I have seen some pathetic instances of driving, I have never had an accident myself. Yungatart hit the nail on the head - it's not the roads that are dangerous, it's the drivers.

[MSTRS]

In the culture of blame that we enjoy, it is apparent that it is the fault of every voter in the country.
After all, it was them who elected a government that allows Transit's engineers to exist, and LTNZ to control the road rules and allow drivers to operate 2+ wheeled missiles.
What annoys me is the practice of 'fixing' so-called dangerous roads. The reality is that only shifts the problem somewhere else, or creates a new situation (or reason) whereby motorists can kill each other.

[Pixie]

Oh,so the roads are the killers?
I won't have to be responsible for my driving now.

When the last vestige of responsiblity in New Zealand has been removed from the shoulders of the populace,let me know,turn off the lights and lock the door as you leave.

[RT527]

It's interesting that the Maramarua Rd doesn't even get a mention. I thought that was the "Killer Highway"?

I drive that road most days in my truck....and also respond to accidents in that area at times...And that highway being a killer highway and a terrible road are lies.....There is nothing wrong with the road, unfortunately its just after the motorway and people forget that and fail to drive accordingly.

[duckonin]

Absolute rubbish there is no such thing as a killer road, it's only the clowns that drive on them, they are the killers..:Oops:

[MSTRS]

I drive that road most days in my truck....and also respond to accidents in that area at times...And that highway being a killer highway and a terrible road are lies.....There is nothing wrong with the road, unfortunately its just after the motorway and people forget that and fail to drive accordingly.

We are well aware of that. It's no better or worse than any other 'main' road in the country. The term 'killer hw' is a media one, cos it's sensational. We know it's almost always driver error - I've never seen a road that attacked anyone - and probably caused mainly by frustration at slow drivers, or inattention. Same everywhere.
Put 2 lanes in each direction, one fast and one slow...seperate with a large median...put a barrier down the middle of the median...no intersections, etc. Drivers will still manage to kill themselves/others.

[Usarka]

So guess the Police on SH16 is nothing to do with safety then as SH16 does not get a mention.

It's not in the list because of the exemplary example of proactive enforcement.

[Clockwork]

I'm confused people. On the one hand we bitch about the state of our roads and how they've been under funded, poor visibility intersections, lack of safe passing opportunities, inconsistent signage, badly cambered bends and road surfaces and dangerous road "furniture".

But apparently there arn't any killer roads, its all about accepting personal responsibility for the fuck-up. Of course that's not much comfort if you're the fuckee rather than the fucker

[MSTRS]

I'm confused people. On the one hand we bitch about the state of our roads and how they've been under funded, poor visibility intersections, lack of safe passing opportunities, inconsistent signage, badly cambered bends and road surfaces and dangerous road "furniture".

But apparently there arn't any killer roads, its all about accepting personal responsibility for the fuck-up. Of course that's not much comfort if you're the fuckee rather than the fucker

Yeah yeah....we just like to bitch. About anything.
Thing is, we notice poor examples of roading stuff, so can point them out. It is still our responsibility to negotiate hazards safely.

[Cruisin' Craig]

Personally, I wish people would report things properly.

Last night on the news that said they did their calculations by dividing the number of deaths on a given stretch of road by the length of the road. This gave them a number of deaths per kilometre.
It also said that the Napier-Hastings stretch has suffered six deaths in a five (or was it four?) year period.
So was that six fatal accidents?
Or did one van with six people crash and instantly catapault that stretch of road straight to the number one spot?
Either way that's too small a number of deaths and too short a time frame to be statistically significant.

Meanwhile that NZ Herald article says the calculations were based on the number of crashes on a given stretch of road. So which was it?
And is that fatal accidents? Or does putting a dent in your bumper count? I bet Lambton quay in Wellington would be right up there in terms of total accidents, but because you can't go fast there it would be very low in terms of deaths, so these details really make a difference.

I'm left having no idea what they are trying to tell me or whether I should take it seriously because of the incompetence of those reporting the findings.

[MSTRS]

It's called "Statistics"...a method whereby one can 'prove' anything they want.
The Napier-Hastings road they refer to will be the Expressway, prior to the flyover at Meeanee Rd. Many accidents there because drivers failed to stop per the signs, then latterly failed to stop at the lights.
One 'accident' claimed 3 lives...5 possibly drunk teenagers, driver on restricted licence, 1am in the morning, ran the red light right in front of a fully laden B-train.
Locals are well pleased that there is a bridge/feeder lane complex now. Don't have huge (3-4kms at times) tailbacks at peak times.

[Beemer]

And don't forget that they count pedestrian deaths as road deaths if they are hit by a motor vehicle. From memory there were at least two in the Napier area where drunks were walking along the edge of the expressway and were hit by cars. That, my friends, has NOTHING to do with the quality of the road, just the amount of alcohol consumed by the moron who was hit.

[Str8 Jacket]

Im still waiting for them to publish a list of "NZ's most dangerous drivers"....

[Pwalo]

Im still waiting for them to publish a list of "NZ's most dangerous drivers"....

Or perhaps NZ's most prolific crashers.

[Str8 Jacket]

Or perhaps NZ's most prolific crashers.

Hmm, id be concerned that I would appear on that list! But yeah. What made me laugh was I read the article online, cant remember which site and it was telling people to avoid the roads!.... FFS!

[jrandom]

SH30 from Te Kuiti to Atiamuri

Sixth on the list for "personal risk", eh?

Fuckin' mint road that one. I must ride it again ASAP. Entirely unsurprising that idiots insist on ramming each other and/or driving into trees on it, of course.

And I had a chuckle about SH22 from Drury to Pukekohe being on the list. What about the real SH22 from Tuakau to Waingaro, Auckland KBers' Favourite Place To Bin (tm)?

:laugh:

Actually, whatever happened to SH22? It never seems to figure in rides these days; all you pussies seem to want to do is go on Miranda loops and Coro GPs and muck about up north.

Harden the fuck up auw! I did it on the way back from Taupo yesterday, and apart from some tarmelt and wandering livestock, it was beautiful.

:niceone:

[MSTRS]

And don't forget that they count pedestrian deaths as road deaths if they are hit by a motor vehicle. From memory there were at least two in the Napier area where drunks were walking along the edge of the expressway and were hit by cars. That, my friends, has NOTHING to do with the quality of the road, just the amount of alcohol consumed by the moron who was hit.

Not to mention what the driver had consumed as well (in one of those cases). Like always...it's a series of events that add up to the result.
Unfortunately for one of those walkers, he was heading south walking with his back to the traffic (big no-no eh?) BUT he was hit by a vehicle travelling north, which swerved right across the road to avoid 2 pissheads pushing their car, not quite off the road. See what I mean about series of events?

[Ixion]

I drive that road most days in my truck....and also respond to accidents in that area at times...And that highway being a killer highway and a terrible road are lies.....There is nothing wrong with the road, unfortunately its just after the motorway and people forget that and fail to drive accordingly.

I have long suspected that the hype and hooha about that road is being generated by small group of over wa-wa'd locals who have become obessional about the issue. I've ridden and driven the road many many times for a hellish number of years, and apart from the sunstrike issue, there are no problems at all with it.

[Drum]

..Last night on the news that said they did their calculations by dividing the number of deaths on a given stretch of road by the length of the road. This gave them a number of deaths per kilometre.
...

The crash rate is calculated using fatal crashes, not fatalities (i.e. A crash where 5 people died is a single fatal crash when calculating crash rates). Crash rates are more correctly reported as fatal crashes per vehicle-kilometers travelled (i.e. a function of both distance and traffic volume).

[mowgli]

When the last vestige of responsiblity in New Zealand has been removed from the shoulders of the populace,let me know,turn off the lights and lock the door as you leave.
Amen to that.

When my sister and I learned to drive all my folks could afford was a 1000cc Anglia. Great car for learning to drive ..... and fix cars :) The 2s rule wasn't a problem. We had to hang back 2s and more just to get enough of a run up to pass. A lack of power really focusses your attention on what might be coming up in the road ahead.

Since then the roads are much improved with many of the interesting curvy bits replaced with boring straight bits. And yet the crash rate still soars. I reckon the road improvements have been offset by the cheap, fuel injected, turboed, suped up coffins coming in from Japan. Many young drivers today have no respect for other road users. It's all about bling to them. Speed and bling. It's a very sad state of affairs.

I say bring in cc or power limits for drivers under 25yo. No more than 4cyl. No turbos or performance enhancements. Vehicles have to be stock. If caught breaking the rules take their licence and their ride away for a few months. That'll get their attention. Break it again - lose it for longer! Make em put a 'N'umpty sticker in the window so the cops can pick em out and/or tax them for not displaying their 'N'umpty sticker.

Am I right???? It works well for us motorcyclists doesn't it????

Disclaimer: some or all of the ideas above may have been stolen from the Victorian government. I hate it when Aussies are right :(

[Conquiztador]

It's called "Statistics"...a method whereby one can 'prove' anything they want.
The Napier-Hastings road they refer to will be the Expressway, prior to the flyover at Meeanee Rd. Many accidents there because drivers failed to stop per the signs, then latterly failed to stop at the lights.
One 'accident' claimed 3 lives...5 possibly drunk teenagers, driver on restricted licence, 1am in the morning, ran the red light right in front of a fully laden B-train.
Locals are well pleased that there is a bridge/feeder lane complex now. Don't have huge (3-4kms at times) tailbacks at peak times.

Thats what I was thinking too, that it was the expressway, but as Youngatart pointed out (and I notice in todays HB Today) it is not. It is the Napier - Hastings road that goes through Clive... No mentioning of the Expressway. So they have just of some obscure reason dropped HB from having #1, #2 and #4... As all who live in HB knows that before the new over-bridge, the Meeanee intersection was the biggest killer. They say that the SH2 has had 6 deaths in (I think) 5 years. Well, the Meanee intersection has alone had that many most years...

[paturoa]

The latest KiwiRap is out.

Feck some journalists are thick. The Harold shows the Collective risk pictures which does not take into account use. The Personal Risk profile is a lot more relevant.

For example, SHOCK HORROR, the road from Huntly to Hamilton is the uber worst (from a collective perspective). However doesn't register on the actual risk (chance) Personal index because 50 bazillion people travel that route.

If we are serious about addressing the most "dangerous" roads then useage / personal risk must be the criteria.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10849275

[Road kill]

Was a bit suprised by the Drury-Pukekohe stretch actually... Poss due to the multi fatality factor when them kids "flew" off the road a couple of years ago, oh, and the stoopid overtaking stretch near NZ Hothouse!

There's been 4 deaths I know of on that bit of road this year.
And what is it 20kms ?

That's also why they shut down the passing lane by NZ Hothouse,,,next the one by the golf course with any luck.

[Brian d marge]

In the culture of blame that we enjoy, it is apparent that it is the fault of every voter in the country.
After all, it was them who elected a government that allows Transit's engineers to exist, and LTNZ to control the road rules and allow drivers to operate 2+ wheeled missiles.
What annoys me is the practice of 'fixing' so-called dangerous roads. The reality is that only shifts the problem somewhere else, or creates a new situation (or reason) whereby motorists can kill each other.
It part of a thinking shift that can be traced back the the RAND corp and Nashes game theory , which had a fundamental flaw ,,,,we are nice people ( sometimes )

but pollys like it because they can quantify and control

Stephen

[Jantar]

...That's also why they shut down the passing lane by NZ Hothouse,,,next the one by the golf course with any luck.
And in doing so, make the road even more dangerous. :crazy:

[DEATH_INC.]

Since then the roads are much improved with many of the interesting curvy bits replaced with boring straight bits. And yet the crash rate still soars. I reckon the road improvements have been offset by the cheap, fuel injected, turboed, suped up coffins coming in from Japan.
Not even that, it's all cars out there now (not just the boy racer version)...they hum along at 100-100 and whatever k's you feel like doing, so easily and comfortably on their cheap assed chinese or s/h jap tyres, that it all feels nice and comfy until something goes wrong...then it's too late to realize just how fast your 1500+kg missile is going and how much room it needs to stop/turn (even at 100k) and just how shit your tyres are. And your lack of actual ability to cope with it.
There's too many variables to know what makes us crash (both bikes and cars) for example, how many accidents/deaths are ACTUALLY caused by 'boy racers'? How many are overly old and shit chinese tyres? I'm pretty sure they just check if they're wofable or not. How many by 'visitors' to our country making simple fuckups? etc etc...

Roads are never the problem, if you drive to the conditions (incl the road) you don't crash....

[Road kill]

And in doing so, make the road even more dangerous. :crazy:

Mate it's not the road that's dangerous,,it's the people passing at or just after the merge at the end of the passing lane.

I've had people force me over at the end of that fucking lane while I've been on my bike or in my truck more times than I can count.

What that road needs is no passing lanes anywhere and double yellows the whole way.

Then her an the rest of the clowns can just carry on tailgating each other for the "whole" 20kms.

FFS,their going to Pukekohe or Waiuku,,,what's the rush anyway ?,,,,,,to get one car space in front,,,yeah right:wacko: