Group riding – Wake-up call & reality check

[Terminated]

If you have medical/first aid training and participate in a social group ride, your experience may well be called upon during the ride. As a safety factor, you may elect to ride at the rear end with tail end Charlie. You may not want to indicate that you have such first aid skills however recognize that if and when the situation dictates you may in fact be a life-saver.

Different Position in the Group[You may not be necessarily be first aid trained]
You may be leading the social group ride, when the unthinkable happens. You may have gone over the crest of a hill or rounded a bend and carried on, you get down to a clear stretch of road and in your rear view mirror you see nobody behind you. What do you do?

If the social group behind you ‘disappears’, deliberate choice of word, it could be a loss of control with a low or high side off with wounded pride; it could be multiple down riders (watch those following distances and staggered formations), it could be something as simple as a flat tyre. Perhaps the coffee doesn’t taste the same anymore when we are one or more less in number next weekend when we ride.

On a social ride, be mindful of the fact that it is not just the destination, but the ride itself that is important too.

Scenario
You are in a group ride and decide to separate from the group during the ride and go ahead, during the next 5km or 10 km you notice the group is not in sight behind you, why because you decided to take off and assumed that the group would catch you up at the destination.

Your decision to separate wasn’t made known to the group at the last departure point eg. ‘I am going to go take off and meet you there…’

The scenario may be that you wanted to get to the 3km straight stretch of road and accelerate away, at the end of the 3km stretch you slow down and wait for the group to come back in sight….but nobody is there……

Over this summer I have just clocked up 13000km so far on the CB900 Hornet, and during this time we have taken time out to remember those riders no longer with us.

A group in general can only go as fast as the slowest rider, why, because they choose to stop at gathering points ahead, and when the situation dictates. Remember if you decide you want to separate from the group let the leader or tail end charlie no before you leave your last departure point.

Heads Up and Enjoy

[cowboyz]

huh? If you are in front of the group as lets assume that you actually know where you are going then the group has to catch you eventually. I ride my own ride and if I happen to get out in front and leave the group behind I stop at the predetermined meeting point and wait. Either than or just stop on the side of the road and have a smoke till someone shows up.

[mstriumph]

you back BuckBuck? :niceone:

*exits to the strains of "Hotel California..............*

[thehovel]

It is a choice between A & B depending on the number of bikes with of me (cluttering an accident site)and how far to the next gathering point. Having said that I ticked A. Regards Richard

[Terminated]

you back BuckBuck? :niceone:

*exits to the strains of "Hotel California..............*


With less than 40 hours to 2008, my thoughts gather on the past 12 months: what we have achieved and what we can improve upon – and that goes for both riding and personal development outside of riding.

In both my newbie update thread and blogg (see links below), much was written about rider development and in part personal development while riding – self discipline.

Looking back over the last four months of this year: I look back and realize I over extended myself in both the Kiwibiker community and also at the personal level where I unintentionally offended.

Whereas apologies were extended to individuals, (and whether the apologies were accepted or not) the fact remains you cannot go out and ride if you are not totally focused.

If you have offended or been offended this can directly impact upon your riding – simply put, if you allow things to have a psychological effect resulting in excessive ruminating then as they say ‘crap’ happens.

So my self discipline kicked in - I took my leave of the kiwibiker community for a while.


On a dark desert highway, cool wind in my hair
Warm smell of colitas rising up through the air
Up ahead in the distance, I saw a shimmering light
My head grew heavy and my sight grew dim; I had to stop for the night.

….Last thing I remember, I was running for the door
I had to find the passage back to place I was before
“Relax” said the night man. “We are programmed to receive.
You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave”.

[Hotel California – The Eagles]

Thank you all for your comments early last month when I ‘left the building’.

Stay safe out there one and all and I will see you in 2008.

Heads Up and Enjoy
BuckBuckNo1

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=30010

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/blogs/viewblog.php?userid=1728

It's A Long Road Out Of Eden - The Eagles

Buck Is Back

[chanceyy]

I guess it depends, in the manawatu/Ashhurst rides the faster riders are out front .. the tail enders tend to ride together .. the middle rides ride inbetween, but the rides are always ride ya own ride & its known that the more experienced riders will wait ahead somewhere

the only thing that I am mindful on my rides with myself and newbie riders is they get a decent break on stopping .. I now permanently carry a very well stocked first aid supplies on my tail kit bag .. & have made a choice to ride more at the back with the odd fang to satisfy my hoon urge ..

also if the any rider of the group seems to be taking an age to get back a more experienced rider will come back to find where you are,

with a regular group of riders we know where each other are .. and how long it generally takes for the slowest rider to catch up .. generally the slowest rider has a buddy .. its worked well so far ..

[Terminated]

I guess it depends, in the manawatu/Ashhurst rides the faster riders are out front .. the tail enders tend to ride together .. the middle rides ride inbetween, but the rides are always ride ya own ride & its known that the more experienced riders will wait ahead somewhere

the only thing that I am mindful on my rides with myself and newbie riders is they get a decent break on stopping .. I now permanently carry a very well stocked first aid supplies on my tail kit bag .. & have made a choice to ride more at the back with the odd fang to satisfy my hoon urge ..

also if the any rider of the group seems to be taking an age to get back a more experienced rider will come back to find where you are,

with a regular group of riders we know where each other are .. and how long it generally takes for the slowest rider to catch up .. generally the slowest rider has a buddy .. its worked well so far ..

Cheers Chanceyy
I look forward to riding with you all up there some weekend before the sun drops early beneath the horizon.

Heads Up and Enjoy

[McDuck]

The head and tail having radio coms cant be bad? Ither way when it comes to your mates, there can never be to many people at a crash. It takes people to do first aid, get drinks hell even push back dorks with cammras. I would turn back, but untill i can ride a bike with more than .2PHP i will be at the back. with my first aid kit and thinking i should really do a first aid course some time.

[Draco]

Either way when it comes to your mates, there can never be to many people at a crash. It takes people to do first aid, get drinks hell even push back dorks with cammras. ....... with my first aid kit and thinking i should really do a first aid course some time.

Nice attitude here guys, it's a relief to know that the "kb group ride" disease hasn't inflicted all. For those of you who don't know me i'm an ex-medic now nurse. As such i'm forever doing the first-aid thing on group rides. I'd just like to encourage EVERY biker to do a first aid course. If not for everyone else you ride with, for yourself because you never know when you'll get caught on a ride and no-one else in the group knows what to do. We're all guilty of saying "one day i must..." so why not get a group of you who ride together regularly and go do one as a group. Safe riding guys :niceone:

[Hitcher]

The definition of "group ride" is an issue. Are we talking about a group of mates or like-minded individuals wanting to go on ride, or some military exercise executed with a high degree of precision and accountability, accompanying ambulances, recovery vehicles, pre-ride stretching and post-ride warm-downs, nutritionists, psychologists, allocated CB radio channel, vegan menu, brolly dollies, and liability waivers?

If you're riding with others, then good old common courtesy should apply. If you break down, get lost, get a better offer or get beamed up by space aliens, you should let others on the ride know so they know where you are and can join you if they wish. Get the ride leader's cellphone number so you can send them a text and let them know what's happening.

[bugjuice]

personally, I'd slow down to a crawl and see if they caught up. If they still haven't after what I'd call an unreasonable amount of time, I'd stop. If after a minute of two I still don't hear bikes, I'd turn back.
I've been caught out before, where I thought I was riding an ok pace, and left the rest too far behind. Starting to think the worst, I turned back, just to see them buzz past me waving.. They then turn back thinking they've gone the wrong way, etc etc..

But I've got a first aid kit onboard, and it's always there for anyone any time, on my ride or not. I'll always (eventually) turn back, if I'm not on the scene already, and do the best I can


fuck. I just clicked the wrong option. my view doesn't count!!

[Macktheknife]

Nice attitude here guys, it's a relief to know that the "kb group ride" disease hasn't inflicted all. For those of you who don't know me i'm an ex-medic now nurse. As such i'm forever doing the first-aid thing on group rides. I'd just like to encourage EVERY biker to do a first aid course. If not for everyone else you ride with, for yourself because you never know when you'll get caught on a ride and no-one else in the group knows what to do. We're all guilty of saying "one day i must..." so why not get a group of you who ride together regularly and go do one as a group. Safe riding guys :niceone:
Great suggestion Draco.
As an ex medic I also have found myself using the skills on several occasions, much to my disappointment. You cannot have too many people who know what they are doing when things go badly. So get yourself along to a course, and be prepared to help out next time the situation arises.

btw, I selected option 2, my skills might be needed.
When you ride as slowly as I do, if the group disappears behind me, either I have missed a turn or something has gone wrong.

[Terminated]

Scenario
You are in a group ride and decide to separate from the group during the ride and go ahead, during the next 5km or 10 km you notice the group is not in sight behind you, why because you decided to take off and assumed that the group would catch you up at the destination.

Your decision to separate wasn’t made known to the group at the last departure point eg. ‘I am going to go take off and meet you there…’

The scenario may be that you wanted to get to the 3km straight stretch of road and accelerate away, at the end of the 3km stretch you slow down and wait for the group to come back in sight….but nobody is there……




If you're riding with others, then good old common courtesy should apply. If you break down, get lost, get a better offer or get beamed up by space aliens, you should let others on the ride know so they know where you are and can join you if they wish. Get the ride leader's cellphone number so you can send them a text and let them know what's happening.

Point taken. – if you got lost that is and you were the rider that left the group.

However the scenario puts the break-away rider ahead of the group, he is on the correct road, and unbeknown to that rider there was/may be an accident back with the main group, and dare I say it, it may have been the group leader down.


The following points also well noted:


The head and tail having radio coms cant be bad? Ither way when it comes to your mates, there can never be to many people at a crash. It takes people to do first aid, get drinks hell even push back dorks with cammras.


Nice attitude here guys, it's a relief to know that the "kb group ride" disease hasn't inflicted all. For those of you who don't know me i'm an ex-medic now nurse. As such i'm forever doing the first-aid thing on group rides. I'd just like to encourage EVERY biker to do a first aid course. If not for everyone else you ride with, for yourself because you never know when you'll get caught on a ride and no-one else in the group knows what to do. We're all guilty of saying "one day i must..." so why not get a group of you who ride together regularly and go do one as a group. Safe riding guys :niceone:


personally, I'd slow down to a crawl and see if they caught up. If they still haven't after what I'd call an unreasonable amount of time, I'd stop. If after a minute of two I still don't hear bikes, I'd turn back.
I've been caught out before, where I thought I was riding an ok pace, and left the rest too far behind. Starting to think the worst, I turned back, just to see them buzz past me waving.. They then turn back thinking they've gone the wrong way, etc etc..

But I've got a first aid kit onboard, and it's always there for anyone any time, on my ride or not. I'll always (eventually) turn back, if I'm not on the scene already, and do the best I can


Great suggestion Draco.
As an ex medic I also have found myself using the skills on several occasions, much to my disappointment. You cannot have too many people who know what they are doing when things go badly. So get yourself along to a course, and be prepared to help out next time the situation arises.

btw, I selected option 2, my skills might be needed.
When you ride as slowly as I do, if the group disappears behind me, either I have missed a turn or something has gone wrong.


Whether it is a small group, four or five riders, or a large group split into advanced, intermediate, and newbies, there does not have to be rigid regimentation by any means but rather an understanding between the group leaders and tail end Charlies to be the ‘safety co-ordinators’.

If a rider chooses to break away from a group, for whatever reason, and does not make an effort to return after a reasonable period, (assuming nobody in the group has phoned that rider), then any future opportunities to ride with the group may be limited.

Heads Up

[MGST]

All good points.

One point which hasn't been made though. I have only been on one KB ride when there was a bin ( 1 bike, 2 places ahead of me in the line, on a corner). Everyone following stopped and all rushed to the downed rider, who's lying half on the road / half in the ditch. People standing on the road picking up bike etc etc. That's fine, but what if some cage comes flying around the corner? The cage will clean everyone up and then we've got REAL trouble.

I parked my bike up, and while everyone else went to the rider, I went the other way, back up the road to slow down anyone else coming up to the scene. I'm sure some people thought I was a heartless bastard etc for not going to see if the rider was ok etc, but situational awareness needs to be thought about. Remember the things you got taught at basic first aid? FIRST THING - make sure your OWN safety is secure before rushing to the aid of others. Its pretty hard to help an injured rider after you've just been run over in the haste to help.

There's usually enough people to have a "spotter" up the road ( in both directions if the road is narrow / blind corner etc ) and still get the injured seen to.

Just my 2C. Hope it helps

[Lissa]

If I ever ever lost a group of riders behind me than its going to be because I got lost and was given a headstart... but if I did find myself in that situation I would certainly wait for them to catch up.

[bugjuice]

All good points.

One point which hasn't been made though. I have only been on one KB ride when there was a bin ( 1 bike, 2 places ahead of me in the line, on a corner). Everyone following stopped and all rushed to the downed rider, who's lying half on the road / half in the ditch. People standing on the road picking up bike etc etc. That's fine, but what if some cage comes flying around the corner? The cage will clean everyone up and then we've got REAL trouble.
the few incidences I've been at, often there's the few minutes of flurry as people kind of stand in ore and are a bit disorganised. First thing to do is get everyone clear of the road, and get someone at both ends of the scene, slowing down other traffic.. then get the wounded and crashed sorted..

[BIGBOSSMAN]

I usually get away from the group and am left pondering this question: should I wait, should I turn around, or should I remove my upside down forks to make the bike a bit slower?
Geez, I'm nonplussed...

[MotoGirl]

This thread assumes that each group has a rider in chage (RIC) and a tail end charlie (TEC). I haven't formally seen either of these things in the social rides I've been on with other KB members.

From what I've seen, everyone knows the end point (usually a town as opposed to "x cafe") and the lead rider will chop and change along the way. I've never been on a KB ride that has a nominated TEC. Never. Saying that though, I've been on rides where the group has stopped to let everyone catch up.

As for getting ahead of the group, we have a rule for this: never let the other person's headlight out of your mirrors. This way, you're always looking behind and will notice straight away if someone goes missing.

[Oscar]

Riding in Groups: A very difficult thing to learn.

I've ridden with the same group of blokes for years and I trust them with my life (literally). I hadn't really thought of Group Riding as an issue until I went on a KB ride - I'm not saying which one - and some dickwad stopped on a State Highway. He pulled over on the left shoulder as another member of the group sat on the centreline waiting to turn right (leaving about one car width in the middle). This caused the next two riders who turned up to brake heavily and have to decide if we were stopping or turning right...in the meantime you have four motorcycles blocking a busy state highway....

[Quasievil]

or a large group split into advanced, intermediate, and newbies, there does not have to be rigid regimentation by any means but rather an understanding between the group leaders and tail end Charlies to be the ‘safety co-ordinators’.
If a rider chooses to break away from a group, for whatever reason, and does not make an effort to return after a reasonable period, (assuming nobody in the group has phoned that rider), then any future opportunities to ride with the group may be limited.
Heads Up

Im my Experience from when I used to do Group rides they tend to organise themselves into speed groups anyway, ie fast goes out in front, the middle and slow groups tend to do their own thing with the odd medium or slow rider tyring to break away to prove himself to the fast group by trying to keep up which in my experience invairably ends in a Crash.

In the bush you always tend to let the slow ones up front, but as most riders consider the road as a race track this may not be such a hot idea.

In my view, Group rides are hazardous ways to ride infact they should be avoided at every opportunity, if unfortunately you come across one you should park up and let them go once gone turn in the opposite direction and leave them to it.
If you absolutely must go on a group ride I suggest partnering up with a rider of sensible habits and sticking together for the day.

[EnzoYug]

In my view, Group rides are hazardous ways to ride.... If you absolutely must go on a group ride I suggest partnering up with a rider of sensible habits and sticking together for the day.

I'm with you on this one. In a group ride I'm not comfortable with more than 3 people. Four plus and I start to get dead nervous. The problem is that with more than 3 people it's impossible to know where everyone is all of the time.

When everyone knows where everyone is, then everyone is in control. And control is what you want.

[Terminated]

Im my Experience from when I used to do Group rides they tend to organise themselves into speed groups anyway, ie fast goes out in front, the middle and slow groups tend to do their own thing with the odd medium or slow rider tyring to break away to prove himself to the fast group by trying to keep up which in my experience invairably ends in a Crash.



I'm with you on this one. In a group ride I'm not comfortable with more than 3 people. Four plus and I start to get dead nervous. The problem is that with more than 3 people it's impossible to know where everyone is all of the time.

When everyone knows where everyone is, then everyone is in control. And control is what you want.

I feel most comfortable riding in a group of no more than five, and generally we juggle the positions rotating RIC and TEC.

On large gatherings eg. Wednesday evening rides I often take it easy and ride at the rear with any newbie riders. On recent rides I have taken the RIC position from Featherston when suggesting a varied route out along SH53 then loop circuit to The Tin Hut. Along the way stopping and waiting for the TEC to arrive and wave.

Heads Up and Enjoy

[homer]

the answer to your question is NO
on our group rides the only crash was a fatal
and everyone is on there own in the event of any event happening
and no i would be stopping unless its me in it

[Draco]

the answer to your question is NO
on our group rides the only crash was a fatal
and everyone is on there own in the event of any event happening
and no i would be stopping unless its me in it

Well (if i've read this rather mis-spelt post correctly) me thinks you may change your tune when it is you lying in the ditch busted to hell....... nice to know you care about your fellow bikers soo much :(

[ElCoyote]

I usually get away from the group and am left pondering this question: should I wait, should I turn around, or should I remove my upside down forks to make the bike a bit slower?
Geez, I'm nonplussed...


We don't need nonplussorius's, they destroy the myth that dinasours are extinct. Buy Skid Mark's bike and you will be home half an hour before you would have left on your bike and miss all the gore.

[FROSTY]

the answer to your question is NO
on our group rides the only crash was a fatal
and everyone is on there own in the event of any event happening
and no i would be stopping unless its me in it
I can't believe your attitude dude.
Someone crashes--you stop--its that simple--Only time I wouldn't stop is in a situation I was putting myself in danger by stopping THERE
I'd still stop but in a safe place

[jrandom]

As for getting ahead of the group, we have a rule for this: never let the other person's headlight out of your mirrors.

I tried this recently, when I was leading some fullas along a road they didn't know, but it ended up causing embarrassment when I slowed down to 90-ish to keep them in view at one point, and they slowed down and didn't speed up, because they thought I was slowing down for some other reason, and we were all riding along wondering wtf each other was doing, and then got overtaken en masse by an SUV...

:laugh:

I've given up on riding with others for fun, apart from a very select few whom I know and trust.

(The ATNR doesn't count; it's just an excuse to cruise to the pub...)

[DougieNZ]

The definition of "group ride" is an issue. Are we talking about a group of mates or like-minded individuals wanting to go on ride, or some military exercise executed with a high degree of precision and accountability, accompanying ambulances, recovery vehicles, pre-ride stretching and post-ride warm-downs, nutritionists, psychologists, allocated CB radio channel, vegan menu, brolly dollies, and liability waivers?

If you're riding with others, then good old common courtesy should apply. If you break down, get lost, get a better offer or get beamed up by space aliens, you should let others on the ride know so they know where you are and can join you if they wish. Get the ride leader's cellphone number so you can send them a text and let them know what's happening.

You really do crack me up at times Hitcher!

LMAO