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Mort
29th January 2008, 22:00
For me it is the ultimate question. Who am I . What exactly is this "instance" of consciousness sat in front of an Apple Mac typing stuff to people I have never met around the world.

Belief in an inner essence, or central core, of personhood, was called "ego theory". The philosopher Derek Parfit put it starkly: we are not what we believe ourselves to be. Actions and experiences are interconnected but ownerless. A human life consists of a long series - or bundle - of enmeshed mental states rolling like tumbleweed down the days and years, but with no one (no thing) at the centre. An embodied brain acts, thinks, has certain experiences, and that's all. There is no deeper fact about being a person. The enchanted loom of the brain does not require a weaver.

Parfit devised a famous thought experiment. Imagine being teleported. A special scanner records the state of every cell in your brain and body and digitally encodes the information for radio transmission. Your body is destroyed in the process but reconstructed as soon as the signals are received and decoded at your destination. You "arrive" in precisely the same condition that you "left", identical in body, brain and patterns of mental activity. Your memories, beliefs, plans, skills and emotions are perfectly intact and you go about your business feeling and believing that nothing about you has changed in the slightest. It's just like waking from a dreamless sleep and getting on with the day.

If you are comfortable with this scenario then you should be comfortable with bundle theory. You appreciate that the observing "I" is no more than patterns of energy and information, which can be disrupted and reconstituted without destroying the self - because there is no self to destroy. The patterns are all. If, on the other hand, you believe that some essential "you" would be lost in the process then you are an irredeemable ego theorist. You believe that the reconstituted body is not "you" but a mere replica. Although the replica will know in its bones that it is the very person who stepped into the scanner at the start of the journey, and friends and loved ones will agree, you insist it could not be you because your body and brain would have been destroyed.

But these words you are now reading, whose are they? Yours or mine? The point of writing is to take charge of the voice in someone else's head. This is what I am doing. My words have taken possession of the language circuits of your brain. I have become, if only transiently, your inner voice. Doesn't that mean, in a certain sense, that I have become you (or you me)? It's a serious question. Written text is a primitive but powerful form of virtual reality. In the beginning was the word.

But there is is one doubt... simulation.... the theory that we don't actually exist except as an entity in a huge simulation. Oh, and another doubt, that there is a another Mort typing this in a parallel universe who is thinking exactly what I am at this moment.

Who are we ?.... tough question that one.

Hitcher
29th January 2008, 22:08
As a troll, this sounds like a strong contender for an addition to the Scottish Thread...

MVnut
29th January 2008, 22:15
Monty Python's 'The Meaning of Life' is on telly this weekend, that'll give you the answer

Laava
29th January 2008, 22:26
The answer was already here! Does that make this a repost?
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=39885&highlight=yipyipyip

Big Dave
29th January 2008, 23:17
I'm very cool.

Ixion
29th January 2008, 23:24
You're an accountant.

Big Dave
29th January 2008, 23:28
You're an accountant.

Nah - quit - only lasted a day.
There is only so much useless information you can tell people that they already knew.

Moved on - I've just secured a very nice MBA in being hip.

RON SOAK
30th January 2008, 00:24
Im Bushed!

Disco Dan
30th January 2008, 00:29
42


That is the answer.

Headbanger
30th January 2008, 00:37
I am....not you, Thank God.

well, If I'm going to thank a mythical creature for my good fortune then God will do.

Big Dave
30th January 2008, 00:40
I am....not you, Thank God.

well, If I'm going to thank a mythical creature for my good fortune then God will do.

I think you are confused.

Headbanger
30th January 2008, 00:42
I think you are confused.

Easily even, and with great vigour.

Conquiztador
30th January 2008, 00:50
Ah yes, take someones brain, implant it in someone elses body, and who are they? Who do they think they are? Are we only a assortment of memories?

If you erase everything from your brain and start again, who are you? Or if you, after the brain has been emptied, download someone elses memories, have you become them?

Hitcher
30th January 2008, 07:50
I'm very cool.

Big Dave is so cool, even glaciers rush to meet him.

Steam
30th January 2008, 08:03
Who are we ?.... tough question that one.

Here's an interesting experiment:

Think of your bike. What it looks like. Visualise it.
Now, notice that you are thinking of your bike. That is, become aware that you have a picture of your bike in your mind.

See?! You can see your own mind thinking of your bike!
You can watch your mind in action.

This shows that your mind is not the essence of you. Instead it is something you have, like a hand, or ears.

There's something else in you that can watch what the mind is doing.
The mind is not you. It is a part of you but not your essence.

Interesting eh!

Usarka
30th January 2008, 08:12
theres a great scene in The Clay Machine Gun (victor pelevin) where an army officer describing dreams in which he is a butterfly.

his superior officer tells him he is dreaming and to wake up and shoots him.

wake up fools, this is a dream.

jrandom
30th January 2008, 08:18
Who are we ?.... tough question that one.

Is this 'Philosophy 101' stuff all new to you?

Go read something by Sartre. You won't be any more enlightened afterwards, but you'll know how to phrase the bullshit and jellybeans better.

:niceone:

Usarka
30th January 2008, 08:18
“...Tell me, where does it live, this gonad of yours?”
“In my consciousness.”
“And where is your consciousness?”
“Right here” I said, tapping myself on the head.
“And where is your head?”
“On my shoulders.”
“And where are your shoulders?”
“In a room..”
“And where is the room?”
“In a building.”
“And where is the building?”
“In Russia.”
“And where is Russia?”
“In the deepest trouble, Vasily Ivanovich.”
“Stop that” he shouted seriously. “You can joke when your commander
orders you to. Answer.”
“Well, of course, on the Earth.”
“We clinked glasses and drank.
“And where is the Earth?”
“In the Universe.”
“And where is the Universe?”
I thought for a second.
“In itself.”
“And where is this in itself?”
“In my consciousness.”
“Well then, Petka, that means your consciousness is in your
consciousness, doesn’t it?”
“Seems so.”
“Right,” said Chapaev, straightening his moustache (The Clay Machine Gun / Buddha’s Little Finger).

jrandom
30th January 2008, 08:21
“Well then, Petka, that means your consciousness is in your
consciousness, doesn’t it?”

All Russians are permanently depressed and existentially confused. This is why vodka was invented.

Usarka
30th January 2008, 08:23
All Russians are permanently depressed and existentially confused. This is why vodka was invented.

dog bless them.

007XX
30th January 2008, 08:32
I am what i am...whether I am aware of what I am at the time I am thinking of it? well...let's not overcomplicate my simplistic blond mind, ok? :nono:

Steam
30th January 2008, 08:34
...you'll know how to phrase the bullshit and jellybeans better.

I did a philosophy degree, hence me now being a tree-hugging leftie softcock.
Sadly I still can't keep in my head the difference between teleology and ontology.

jrandom
30th January 2008, 08:37
I did a philosophy degree, hence me now being a tree-hugging leftie softcock.

Philosophy degrees cause impotence and proximity to perennial flora?

:shit:

Steam
30th January 2008, 08:39
Philosophy degrees cause impotence and proximity to perennial flora?

Yep. Also causes your right leg-bones to grow, hence the lean to the left.

Pwalo
30th January 2008, 11:17
42


That is the answer.

Hang on, what was the question again.

onearmedbandit
30th January 2008, 13:07
You use an Apple Mac?

avgas
30th January 2008, 13:10
Do you have my keys? If not where are they?

Finn
30th January 2008, 13:11
You use an Apple Mac?

I do so therefore I am... a mac user.

avgas
30th January 2008, 13:33
I do so therefore I am... a mac user.
does it feel like warm apple pie?

Mikkel
30th January 2008, 13:34
For me it is the ultimate question. Who am I .

BOOORING!....

/shuffles off to get some food

;)

Taz
30th January 2008, 13:50
I'm not aware of too many things
I know what I know if you know what I mean.......

avgas
31st January 2008, 13:07
I'm not aware of too many things
I know what I know if you know what I mean.......
No, please enlighten us

Big Dave
31st January 2008, 13:17
.....Choke me in the shallow water before I get too deep.

FlangMasterJ
31st January 2008, 13:20
I'm the one on the far right.

<a href="http://s25.photobucket.com/albums/c52/FlangMasterJ/?action=view&current=evolution.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c52/FlangMasterJ/evolution.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

avgas
31st January 2008, 15:08
I'm the one on the far right.

<a href="http://s25.photobucket.com/albums/c52/FlangMasterJ/?action=view&current=evolution.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c52/FlangMasterJ/evolution.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
So that's what happens to Jesus after becoming a Mexican. He shaved

Big Dave
31st January 2008, 15:15
I'm the one on the far right.

i never know what the means here - is that Labour or National?