Your IDEAL relationship model - please read first post before responding to poll

[Wolf]

OK, inspired by the Monogamy - outdated concept or not? (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=64932) thread, I've decided to run a little poll.

I've had to cut back the options to broad categories and probably missed a few but I wanted to be able to differentiate male and female.

For obvious reasons, the poll is anonymous.

Please read the following before posting and put some thought into what sort of relationship you're honestly most comfortable with:

This is regarding your ideal relationship model - not necessarily the one you are in right now (you may currently be unintentionally single/celibate, for example).

Monogamous: Whether strict monogamy (only ever have one partner in your entire life) or "serial monogamy" (only one partner at a time but not opposed to the concept of finding another partner if a partner dies or the relationship does not work).

Poly-something: Some form of mutually-consenting emotionally-based non-monogamous relationship - polygamy, polyamory, polyfidelity, open marriages etc - there's a wiki page listing them here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forms_of_nonmonogamy) butfor the purposes of this poll do not include "swingers". You or your partner or both are fine with emotional attachments being formed with other people.

Swinger: Mutually-consenting purely sexual non-monogamy - "partner swapping" for fun. All "goes South" if emotional ties develop outside the primary relationship.

Non-commital sex: Relationships? Commitment? Who needs 'em? Get the sexual needs met and then move on. Have lots of different lovers over a period of time.

Cheating: Having [an] additional partner(s) outside of a relationship without consent (perhaps for the risk factor? Who knows?).

Lets see how the numbers stack up. Is our little corner of the community predominently monogamous or poly? Do more of us prefer honest relationships or deceitful ones? Are the men or women on KB more inclined to monogamy etc.

No real reason for this poll except my abiding love of "what makes people tick?" Here's hoping the level of discussion is such that this stays in Rant or Rave and does not degenerate to the point where it's consigned to PD.

[007XX]

eeerrr...where's the poll thingy Wolfie? :confused:

[Wolf]

eeerrr...where's the poll thingy Wolfie? :confused:

Takes a while to come through, V

[007XX]

Takes a while to come through, V

Apologies sir...I shall attempt to restrict my "over eager puppy" urges...:p

[ManDownUnder]

it will be interesting to see how the traditional biological imperatives fit into the results (i.e. women tend to a single nuturing partner while males want to sew their seeds)

[Beemer]

it will be interesting to see how the traditional biological imperatives fit into the results (i.e. women tend to a single nuturing partner while males want to sew their seeds)

And stitch a few women up at the same time?

[Wolf]

it will be interesting to see how the traditional biological imperatives fit into the results (i.e. women tend to a single nuturing partner while males want to sew their seeds)
Hmmmm, yeah, though you could probably come up with theoretical "biological imperatives" to explain contradicting results, too.

I'm surprised at the speed with which results have come up - I scarcely refreshed my screen after the poll activated and there were a couple of poly and swinger votes already. At least one who likes cheating so far, too.

Would be interested in knowing why people cheat, though I fear that would blow up quite badly if posted in the open forum.

[ManDownUnder]

Would be interested in knowing why people cheat, though I fear that would blow up quite badly if posted in the open forum.

Can answer that from general observations and conversations with various people as I walk through life.

It comes down to two things:
1) Wanting their youth back. It was fun way back when - I want to know I'm still attractive, I'll pick up someone, I'll pick up lots of people to prove it
2) Relationship with differing libidos where one (low libido) is satisfied with their lot, the other (high libido) isn't, is trapped in a monogomous relationship they don't want to destroy (kids, love their partner... other possible options etc).

They do what they can on the sly and resolve it that way.

Further interesting note on Point 2 are those relationships where the male is the low libido partner. There seems to be a shame in that... being less of a man, not being able to satisfy a woman, living up to stereotyped expectations etc

[jrandom]

Interesting that we seem to be getting a strong representation from the polyamorists.

I would have expected that to be the rarest inclination. True multiple emotional connections are a difficult thing to balance.

I rather suspect that our would-be poly-somethings are actually more the swinging or playing-the-field sorts, and didn't consider the poll carefully enough.

...

Is anyone else thinking that Mr Mental Pants is going to have a ball giggling over these 'anonymous' results?

:lol:

[Str8 Jacket]

Is anyone else thinking that Mr Mental Pants is going to have a ball giggling over these 'anonymous' results?

:lol:

Yep! Especially when KBers in relationships vote differently!

[kiwifruit]

women tend to a single nuturing partner

:lol: :blank:

[jrandom]

Yep! Especially when KBers in relationships vote differently!

I'm tempted to see what it'd take to bribe him for the list.

And then do mankind a favour by gunning down the filthy little oxygen thieves who ticked the last option.

:niceone:

[judecatmad]

Relationship with differing libidos where one (low libido) is satisfied with their lot, the other (high libido) isn't, is trapped in a monogomous relationship they don't want to destroy (kids, love their partner... other possible options etc).

They do what they can on the sly and resolve it that way.


It's still no excuse for cheating tho - I'm a true believer in being committed to the person I'm with, through good, bad and ugly. If I want more, I need to get off my chuff and out of the relationship I'm currently in. Why would I hurt the one who has put so much trust and faith in me just to get whatever may be lacking?

I'm not saying that your above scenario applies to my relationship, but that I disagree with your justification of cheating.

But hey, if we were all the same, life would be pretty boring, eh?! Each to their own :yes:

[jrandom]

It comes down to two things:
1) Wanting their youth back...
2) Relationship with differing libidos...

None of the cheating that I've been directly involved in or known of first-hand was due to either of those reasons.

I think you need to go back to the drawing-board.

[Str8 Jacket]

And then do mankind a favour by gunning down the filthy little oxygen thieves who ticked the last option.

:niceone:

Hmmm, bloody women eh! Well *I* didnt choose the last option, thank god for that.....

[Mikkel]

Dunno. Personally I ticked the poly-something...

I guess it should be seen as this: If I could have 5 female partners and they all were cool with it - awesome! :yes:
I'm happy with my current partner, and I doubt she'd be interested in that kind of arrangement... so chances that it's going to happen are pretty slim.


And then do mankind a favour by gunning down the filthy little oxygen thieves who ticked the last option.

So it's ok for men to cheat - but not women? :crazy:

[jrandom]

Hmmm, bloody women eh!

Well, of course, it'd depend on how hawt they were. I mean, maybe I'd just be keen on a go...

:laugh:

[Stickchick]

So it's ok for men to cheat - but not women? :crazy:

Are you not aware that when a male cheats, he is a stud and when a female cheats she is a slut. :no:

I don't condone cheating of any kind. As Judecatmad says, get out of the relationship beforehand.

[ManDownUnder]

It's still no excuse for cheating tho - I'm a true believer in being committed to the person I'm with, through good, bad and ugly. If I want more, I need to get off my chuff and out of the relationship I'm currently in. Why would I hurt the one who has put so much trust and faith in me just to get whatever may be lacking?

I'm not saying that your above scenario applies to my relationship, but that I disagree with your justification of cheating.

But hey, if we were all the same, life would be pretty boring, eh?! Each to their own :yes:

... just talking all around the point... but ..

It is an interesting one because it places values on moral dilemmas (and I've heard quite a number of variations on this theme... tis an interesting one!)

Does one satisfy the moral obligation to provide parental support to a family at their own personal emotional cost, put the emotional satisfaction above the responsibilities as a parent, or try to find a discreet solution that is morally challenging yet resolves both needs?

It's also very interesting to see how many women go through a change of some sort where their libido goes from zero to hero (often in their 30's or 40's per the original monogomy thread)... and hear some of the stories that happen as a consequence.

There is also a whole line of argument that says there is a moral obligation for a partner to keep their spouse/betrothed other satisfied. In the traditional vows - "my body I give to you" and "to have and to hold"... at what point is a person entitled to put conditions on WHEN they are to be had and held etc?

They most certainly have those rights of course... but where that line is - that's not really described so it's another aspect to the moral balancing act to be considered.

Arguably the best thing to do is is (as you say) put your hand up, get help and deal with the problem in front of you before changing the ground rules on a partnership or whole family dynamic.

It is fun to look at this stuff from all angles? Who is to say what's "right" or "wrong"? I know what my personal guidelines are, but what right do I have to expect everyone around me to adhere to them?

(sorrry JCM - sounds like I'm beating you up - not at all... )

[Mikkel]

Are you not aware that when a male cheats, he is a stud and when a female cheats she is a slut. :no:

I don't condone cheating of any kind. As Judecatmad says, get out of the relationship beforehand.



I wasn't stating my opinion on the subject of cheating...

I was merely pointing out that the way jrandom had written his sentenced it seemed that he was opposed to women cheating more than men...

I.e. "the last option" vs. "the last two options".

[ManDownUnder]

None of the cheating that I've been directly involved in or known of first-hand was due to either of those reasons.

I think you need to go back to the drawing-board.

Would love to hear more... being the purveyor of misery I suspect I am LOL!

Over a Steiny pure or three?

[007XX]

I'm tempted to see what it'd take to bribe him for the list.

Me thinks you'd be barking up the wrong tree there my friend, no matter the price!


And then do mankind a favour by gunning down the filthy little oxygen thieves who ticked the last option.

:niceone:

Oh boy, here we go again...you are becoming predictable sweetchicks...


None of the cheating that I've been directly involved in or known of first-hand was due to either of those reasons.

I think you need to go back to the drawing-board.

Hmmm...maturity and experience versus petulence and close mindedness...


C'mon MDU, this could get interesting :corn:

[jrandom]

So it's ok for men to cheat - but not women? :crazy:

Not at all.

But you might notice that no men have yet ticked the cheatin' option.

Could that be because the male psyche does not lend itself to desiring the evil rush of successful deception?

[Oakie]

Just remember you poly-whatever guys, (and poly-whatever does imply close relationship) that for each 'significant-other' you have, there is also the significant other's mother. That's why I can't understand polygamists. I mean three wives is probably pretty hard work but HEY ... three wives means three mothers-in-law. Why would you do that to yourself?!

[jrandom]

close mindedness...

Hang on, how is it close-minded for me to point out that none of the cheating situations I've been personally involved in are adequately described by MDU's theory?

:confused:

[jrandom]

the way jrandom had written his sentenced it seemed that he was opposed to women cheating more than men...

Oh dear, believe me, that implication was entirely unintentional.

:no:

[Mikkel]

Not at all.

But you might notice that no men have yet ticked the cheatin' option.

Could that be because the male psyche does not lend itself to desiring the evil rush of successful deception?

Either that or it could be used as an argument in the old case for men being smarter than women...

...or bigger pussies... erm, let's say pansies instead - more appropriate.

[ManDownUnder]

Hang on, how is it close-minded for me to point out that none of the cheating situations I've been personally involved in are adequately described by MDU's theory?

:confused:

Maybe it's my ignorance (i.e. my not know the situations you refer to) she's referring to. Either way it's not a bother to me... if i have something to learn... teach me!

[007XX]

Not at all.

But you might notice that no men have yet ticked the cheatin' option.

Could that be because the male psyche does not lend itself to desiring the evil rush of successful deception?

Or could it be that women are more honnest about it? Once again, always two sides to a story...


Hang on, how is it close-minded for me to point out that none of the cheating situations I've been personally involved in are adequately described by MDU's theory?

:confused:

Because you told him to go back to the drawing board, implying his perspective was wrong...it is his perspective and you have yours...neither are wrong, just your own. With ope mindedness, you would have conceded to this from the start.


Oh dear, believe me, that implication was entirely unintentional.

:no:

Hmmmm...you do that sometimes...

[Mikkel]

Not at all.

But you might notice that no men have yet ticked the cheatin' option.

Could that be because the male psyche does not lend itself to desiring the evil rush of successful deception?


Hang on, how is it close-minded for me to point out that none of the cheating situations I've been personally involved in are adequately described by MDU's theory?

:confused:


Oh dear, believe me, that implication was entirely unintentional.

:no:

Btw. - there's this nifty "MULTI-QUOTE" thingy-mabob on these new-fangled fora... :p

[judecatmad]

(sorrry JCM - sounds like I'm beating you up - not at all... )

Nah m8, not at all :) I know you well enough to know that hypothetical discussion is possible without you pounding your 'opponent' into the ground!

It is interesting to see others' values, yes. I saw too much hurt caused by my father's cheating to ever be able to do that to someone I'm in a relationship with. That's where my staunch morals come from and I have lost friends in the past over a difference in values. It's only as I get older that I have come to realise that I cannot expect the whole world to take my stance!

And hey, what's with this belief that a woman's libido goes from zero to off the scale in her 30s or 40s?? Mine was rampant in my 20s - the only trouble was, most of my 20s nobody was interested!!!!

[Mikkel]

Because you told him to go back to the drawing board, implying his perspective was wrong...it is his perspective and you have yours...neither are wrong, just your own. With ope mindedness, you would have conceded to this from the start.

That's where you're wrong V!

[Mekk]

Just remember you poly-whatever guys, (and poly-whatever does imply close relationship) that for each 'significant-other' you have, there is also the significant other's mother. That's why I can't understand polygamists. I mean three wives is probably pretty hard work but HEY ... three wives means three mothers-in-law. Why would you do that to yourself?!

Polyamorous relationships don't necessarily entail marriage.

[ManDownUnder]

And hey, what's with this belief that a woman's libido goes from zero to off the scale in her 30s or 40s?? Mine was rampant in my 20s - the only trouble was, most of my 20s nobody was interested!!!!

LOLOL... "STAND BACK - THIS ONE'S GOING TO <STRIKE>BLOW</STRIKE>EXPLODE!"

[007XX]

That's where you're wrong V!

bring it on Junior...:girlfight: :nya:

[jrandom]

you told him to go back to the drawing board, implying his perspective was wrong...it is his perspective and you have yours...neither are wrong, just your own.

Ah, you take the wrong implication from the 'back to the drawing board' comment. I implied that MDU's model of motivations was incomplete, not incorrect.

Certainly the reasons he gives are very understandable and have likely been significant motivations for many people.

I would suggest that the area Nigel fails to plumb, there, is the depths of stupidity and downright evil that can sometimes come into play in such situations. From both men and women. Neither are better than the other, to be sure.

In fact, if I recall correctly, sociological research suggests that more men than women cheat, although the women who do cheat get it on with far more partners than the men (makes sense, I suppose, if one has a small pool of amoral women servicing a larger pool of amoral men).

Now, before we go any further, can I just stipulate that I am not in 'stir the kinksters up' mode in this thread, and that y'all can just relax?

Seriously, though, I do wonder whether the average male cheater and the average female cheater do tend to operate from different motivations.

I have some personal stores I could share, if y'all promise not to be too mean to me...

[Mikkel]

bring it on Junior...:girlfight: :nya:

Nah, couldn't do that to an old girl like you... :p

[ManDownUnder]

I have some personal stores I could share, if y'all promise not to be too mean to me...

Would love to hear some, but understand if a public forum is a bit too public. Those involved would need to not be KBers for instance...

[jrandom]

LOLOL... "STAND BACK - THIS ONE'S GOING TO <STRIKE>BLOW</STRIKE>EXPLODE!"

Three partners of mine have testified to a 'sexual awakening' involving a more relaxed and self-assured approach as well as an apparently-better-functioning body kicking in at around 27 years old.

I have also, er, 'been with' a reasonable number of young (< 23) women who have definitely had issues with sexual responsiveness.

There's my contribution to the data; make of it what you will...

[jrandom]

Those involved would need to not be KBers for instance...

No idea what you're talking about, there, old bean; I would only ever speak in entirely general terms.

:yes:

[007XX]

Ah, you take the wrong implication from the 'back to the drawing board' comment. I implied that MDU's model of motivations was incomplete, not incorrect.

Certainly the reasons he gives are very understandable and have likely been significant motivations for many people.

I would suggest that the area Nigel fails to plumb, there, is the depths of stupidity and downright evil that can sometimes come into play in such situations. From both men and women. Neither are better than the other, to be sure.

In fact, if I recall correctly, sociological research suggests that more men than women cheat, although the women who do cheat get it on with far more partners than the men (makes sense, I suppose, if one has a small pool of amoral women servicing a larger pool of amoral men).

Ah, now I undertstand...and agree. :niceone:


Now, before we go any further, can I just stipulate that I am not in 'stir the kinksters up' mode in this thread, and that y'all can just relax?

Seriously, though, I do wonder whether the average male cheater and the average female cheater do tend to operate from different motivations.

I have some personal stores I could share, if y'all promise not to be too mean to me...

:shit: You're not???? aawww man...:( I was already slipping into my Dominatrix outfit! :devil2:

Oh well, I'll be nice then...


Nah, couldn't do that to an old girl like you... :p

That a boy!!! We wouldn't want you getting a proper spanking and going off to sulk, now would we? :whistle: :laugh:

[Mikkel]

That a boy!!! We wouldn't want you getting a proper spanking and going off to sulk, now would we? :whistle: :laugh:

Claws getting a bit dull? Time for a manicure?

If you would expect me to start sulking after that I think you'd be sorely disappointed... ;)

[007XX]

Claws getting a bit dull? Time for a manicure?


Bling sent...'nuf said... :laugh:

For what it's worth, I'd tend to agree with your approach to this thread.

I used to think exactly the same in my early 20s, however never found more than one partner I was attracted to at the same time.
*sigh* being picky can be a pain sometimes...

[Pwalo]

Who cares? Besides, why can't you have more than one ideal? Perhaps more importantly how can you be certain that what you percieve as your ideal relationship is what you are willing to admit to?

Any way why would you want to have to deal with more than one person at a time. I'm sure the vacarious thrills would be a reward if you are that way inclined, but it's just soo much trouble for a poor simple bloke.

[ManDownUnder]

Three partners of mine have testified to a 'sexual awakening' involving a more relaxed and self-assured approach as well as an apparently-better-functioning body kicking in at around 27 years old.
Understood - that was a contributor to a couple of the "differing libido" situations I'm privy to. They started off the same... then one (or other) took off.


a reasonable number of young (< 23) women who have definitely had issues with sexual responsiveness.

There's my contribution to the data; make of it what you will...

Also related to the situation referred to above as a contributing factor. The classic "We're good Christians and we were virgins when we married" followed by one of them finding out one libido is on a different planet relatively speaking - that's gotta be fun!

[Coyote]

Not at all.

But you might notice that no men have yet ticked the cheatin' option.

Could that be because the male psyche does not lend itself to desiring the evil rush of successful deception?
Much like how men tend to not talk behind a mates back whereas many women lap up any opportunity to do so.

W1:"Omg, here she comes now"
W2:"Lol, she's such a bitch, her dress looks horrible"
W1:"Omg I know"
W2:"Lol"
W3:"hey gurlz!"
W1&2:"Oh hey, didn't see you! *hugz*"

I've been cheated on, didn't enjoy it. Why do it to someone I care about, or anyone? And as Mikkel said, 5 chicks at once would be great, but that's unlikely and having a good relationship with the one lovely lady is better than mindless sex, not that I've gotten around much mind you.


And another thing, I hate the phrase "love at first site". It's practically saying "I love your looks and I'll say anything that'll keep me getting inside your pants".

[Coyote]

Mine was rampant in my 20s - the only trouble was, most of my 20s nobody was interested!!!!
Where were you? At home?

[Mikkel]

Bling sent...'nuf said... :laugh:

For what it's worth, I'd tend to agree with your approach to this thread.

I used to think exactly the same in my early 20s, however never found more than one partner I was attracted to at the same time.
*sigh* being picky can be a pain sometimes...

I see what you mean - but being picky is usually the best way to avoid disappointments in the long run...

However, I'd have to admit I've met quite a few people with whom I've felt a mutual attraction. I just haven't acted upon that impulse while being in a relationship. Mainly, I guess, because I didn't want to put the relationship at risk and I simply refuse to live a life based on conceit and lies...

I'd have been more tempted to either not acknowledge this realisation or perhaps compromise my principles when I was in my early twenties...



Who cares? Besides, why can't you have more than one ideal? Perhaps more importantly how can you be certain that what you percieve as your ideal relationship is what you are willing to admit to?

Any way why would you want to have to deal with more than one person at a time. I'm sure the vacarious thrills would be a reward if you are that way inclined, but it's just soo much trouble for a poor simple bloke.

I would be lying through my teeth if I was to claim I was a simple bloke!

Quite frankly, I can easily get bored with people on the person-to-person level. I crave diversity to a level which is extremely difficult to achieve in one person. If I don't get stimulated I quite simply become bored and fall asleep (if not physically, then mentally).

This is also the reason I usually drive/ride at speeds not approved of by the LTSA... If I go slow I get bored and my brain shuts down (goes elsewhere) and a much more dangerous lack of focus sets in.

[007XX]

I see what you mean - but being picky is usually the best way to avoid disappointments in the long run...

However, I'd have to admit I've met quite a few people with whom I've felt a mutual attraction. I just haven't acted upon that impulse while being in a relationship. Mainly, I guess, because I didn't want to put the relationship at risk and I simply refuse to live a life based on conceit and lies...

I'd have been more tempted to either not acknowledge this realisation or perhaps compromise my principles when I was in my early twenties...

Yep, agree fully...see, we couldn't have a decent argument, cos we always agree with each other :laugh:

[ArcherWC]

Hmmmmm......I could contribute a lot to this conversation, but methinks it would be far more interesting (and less public) over a beer

[Cruisin' Craig]

None of the cheating that I've been directly involved in or known of first-hand was due to either of those reasons.

I think you need to go back to the drawing-board.

I can guarantee that the second of those points at least is valid.
But I suspect there are a LOT more reasons than just those two :-)

[LilSel]

May be slighty off topic... but to do with relationships n cheating...

What I cant stand is people who insinuate/offer/encourage another person to cheat:mad:

Unfortunately as I have learned, its human nature & you cannot do anything about it, you can give the world to someone yet they still treat you as being insignificant & either cheat or display characteristics that lead you to the conclusion that that is whats being going on.

Interestingly enough... this time of year is the time of year that the most relationships end or people get caught out... (according to the radio)

Im happy in the knowledge that I am faithful to my partner

[Wolf]

Perhaps more importantly how can you be certain that what you percieve as your ideal relationship is what you are willing to admit to?

Valid question. Likewise: How can you be certain that the relationship you're in is what you truly wish for? Many people say "I want to settle down with the "right person" and grow old together" - yet the divorce and cheating stats suggest that many people are wrong in that.

I suppose that in an ideal universe we'd all be in the ideal relationship and our partners' libidos would change at the same rate and in the same directions as our own and we'd always grow together rather than apart.

We'd all know what we want and we'd seek out that which suits us and reject everything else without fear. We would also pursue what we wanted without fear of the censure and abuse of others.

However, far greater philosophers than I have frequently pointed out that the universe is far from ideal.

Sadly, people often know only the options they've been told and have preconceived notions about things drilled into them. Many people fear being alone and leap into relationships that don't suit them, many people lack the courage to trust their partners and discuss things openly and honestly, the pressure is there to "find "the one" and settle down" and people often don't know what they really want and many of those who do fear to act on it as other people can be right royal pricks.

When you have mismatched partners in a relationship, things can quickly turn pear-shaped for one or t'other and the human spectrum ranges from those who would happily be celibate (deliberately left out as a poll option) to those who could happily have multiple partners and have no problem with their partners having multiple partners, taking in monogamists, non-commitant people and those who desire multiple partners - but would not be happy with their partners having other partners - along the way.

Fortunately, there are reciprocal people out there but we don't always meet/fall in love with those who are matches in that respect. Many people are so scared of being alone they get hooked up with people that aren't compatible rather than wait for someone who is.

I'm fortunate that, in the here and now, StrayJ and I are in a compatible relationship and both developing together in the same direction (I can't speak for the future but it looks good so far). Others are not so lucky.

What I cannot understand is couples wherein both are cheating on each other and they find out about each other and then petition for divorce on the grounds of "infidelity" - yet they were both equally guilty. Sure, the deceit side of it needs to be addressed and both need a good slap over the ears for that, but surely that would be a cue to sit down and say "OK, we both obviously have needs outside the relationship, time to reassess the relationship and see if it's worth continuing in a more "open format." If they still loved each other enough not to dump one another when they met their lovers, if the relationship was worth keeping, then surely the relationship has enough going for it to keep in modified form.

[Pwalo]

Valid question.......snip...... in modified form.

Look I actually studied Philosophy (a long time ago). You're trying way too hard.

[Pwalo]

Wolf, have you ever heard of over analysis?

[Str8 Jacket]

Wolf, have you ever heard of over analysis?

Different strokes mate..... Wolf's a good guy!

[Finn]

True multiple emotional connections are a difficult thing to balance.

Not with decent home security and CCTV they're not.

[Wolf]

Wolf, have you ever heard of over analysis?
Just interested in knowing how people think, dude. The "Forbidden Three" (Sex, Politics and Religion) have always been topics for discussion so far as I'm concerned, for precisely the same reason they are "forbidden" - they're things that are pivotal to our natures as humans and emotions/convictions run high/deep on those topics. You learn a lot more about people through them than you do discussing hobbies.

[007XX]

Wolf, have you ever heard of over analysis?

And have you considered the possibility that a lot of us actually enjoy reading his over analysis?

Freedom of speech is a beautiful thing, don't you think? :D

[Str8 Jacket]

Freedom of speech is a beautiful thing, don't you think? :D

Depends on who's doing the speaking! :yes:

[Joni]

Depends on who's doing the speaking! :yes:Yes Madame presidente... I agree fully! :bleh:

[Str8 Jacket]

Yes Madame presidente... I agree fully! :bleh:

Where's my beer at biarch!.....?! ;)

(not that im saying you've earned that title yet!)

[007XX]

Depends on who's doing the speaking! :yes:

Yes, well...I'd love Bush to shut the f*&^ up, but it certainly don't stop him. And that's exactly where "freedom of speech" becomes an aberration :rolleyes:

However...any couple intent on either partie wanting the "last say" in an argument, is I believe bound to end up swinging or cheating...

But eh, that's my opinion alone...

[Pwalo]

And have you considered the possibility that a lot of us actually enjoy reading his over analysis?

Freedom of speech is a beautiful thing, don't you think? :D

Each to their own. But don't mistake freedom of speech with beauty or intelligence (or wit for that matter).

[007XX]

Each to their own. But don't mistake freedom of speech with beauty or intelligence (or wit for that matter).

Indeed....story of my life on men until about 6 years ago! :laugh:

You live and learn, eh?

[Cruisin' Craig]

What I cannot understand is couples wherein both are cheating on each other and they find out about each other and then petition for divorce on the grounds of "infidelity" - yet they were both equally guilty. Sure, the deceit side of it needs to be addressed and both need a good slap over the ears for that, but surely that would be a cue to sit down and say "OK, we both obviously have needs outside the relationship, time to reassess the relationship and see if it's worth continuing in a more "open format." If they still loved each other enough not to dump one another when they met their lovers, if the relationship was worth keeping, then surely the relationship has enough going for it to keep in modified form.



Dumping their partner/spouse when they met their new love interests would require a great deal of courage. It' not easy breaking up with someone.

My guess is that in many of these cases the relationship has deteriorated and so both partners are dissatisfied and hence cheating, but lack the strength to call the relationship off.

However once they find out their partners have been cheating on them, they can grasp onto this as an excuse to end the relationship that they already wanted out of anyway.

[Bloody Mad Woman (BMW)]

Not at all.

But you might notice that no men have yet ticked the cheatin' option.

Could that be because the male psyche does not lend itself to desiring the evil rush of successful deception?


You think a male is gonna get that fn honest. Get Real

[Maha]

But you might notice that no men have yet ticked the cheatin' option.

Could that be because the male psyche does not lend itself to desiring the evil rush of successful deception?

Naaaaa they're just cunce!

[jrandom]

You think a male is gonna get that fn honest. Get Real

Not really; I just think that most men would probably, given the choice, prefer not to have to cheat. You'd have to be pretty psychopathic to actually get a buzz from it. Mostly, I think guys tend to do it out of laziness and selfishness, and then just rationalise it away.

I have known at least one woman who does get that buzz, though - there was no rationalisation, just a fairly evil delight in what she was doing.

Sad but true.

Obviously, my experience is far from all-encompassing, so I make no claim to absolute enlightenment in this regard. Just throwing my thoughts out there to see what gets made of them.

[Stickchick]

Not really; I just think that most men would probably, given the choice, prefer not to have to cheat. You'd have to be pretty psychopathic to actually get a buzz from it. Mostly, I think guys tend to do it out of laziness and selfishness, and then just rationalise it away.

Selfishness yes, Laziness??? Please explain

[SixPackBack]

:bash:
Selfishness yes, Laziness??? Please explain

:bash::jerry:

[jrandom]

Selfishness yes, Laziness??? Please explain

Laziness is what stops people from working through issues in a current relationship and, if necessary, terminating it, without becoming inappropriately involved with anyone else first.

I know from personal experience that the idea of walking out on a failed long-term relationship without having a new warm body to cosy up to as an immediate replacement can be a daunting prospect.

I think that's why a lot of folk (guys and girls) end up cheating - they're too lazy to put the necessary work into honourably ending what they have, and would rather just let it slide and begin something new behind their current partner's back.

I've done it myself, and I wish I hadn't.

[Stickchick]

Laziness is what stops people from working through issues in a current relationship and, if necessary, terminating it, without becoming inappropriately involved with anyone else first.

Or it could be just that the person that is cheating isn't willing to let go of the comfortable in fear of the new relationship/shag falling apart or isn't what they expected so then they will still have the old and comfortable to fall back on.

[Maha]

Laziness is what stops people from working through issues in a current relationship and, if necessary, terminating it, without becoming inappropriately involved with anyone else first.

I know from personal experience that the idea of walking out on a failed long-term relationship without having a new warm body to cosy up to as an immediate replacement can be a daunting prospect.

I think that's why a lot of folk (guys and girls) end up cheating - they're too lazy to put the necessary work into honourably ending what they have, and would rather just let it slide and begin something new behind their current partner's back.

I've done it myself, and I wish I hadn't.

That is soooooooo beautiful, wanna hug?, i havent voted yet!....

[jrandom]

That is soooooooo beautiful, wanna hug?

Fag.<tencharacters>

[Grahameeboy]

Can answer that from general observations and conversations with various people as I walk through life.

It comes down to two things:
1) Wanting their youth back. It was fun way back when - I want to know I'm still attractive, I'll pick up someone, I'll pick up lots of people to prove it
2) Relationship with differing libidos where one (low libido) is satisfied with their lot, the other (high libido) isn't, is trapped in a monogomous relationship they don't want to destroy (kids, love their partner... other possible options etc).

They do what they can on the sly and resolve it that way.

Further interesting note on Point 2 are those relationships where the male is the low libido partner. There seems to be a shame in that... being less of a man, not being able to satisfy a woman, living up to stereotyped expectations etc

I have one partner and it is more fun at 45.....

[007XX]

Or it could be just that the person that is cheating isn't willing to let go of the comfortable in fear of the new relationship/shag falling apart or isn't what they expected so then they will still have the old and comfortable to fall back on.

Or...

The person is just not satisfied sexually in the marriage, but is not willing to let this destroy the relationship, where kids might usually be involved. And avenues such as therapy and the likes have been explored.

It always amazes me how much people underestimate the actual need for properly satisfying sexual rapport in a marriage.
Surely it's like breathing, isn't it?

[ManDownUnder]

I have one partner and it is more fun at 45.....

Take it all the way up to 69 and see what happens!

[ManDownUnder]

Surely it's like breathing, isn't it?

LOL... "fuck yes" seems strangely appropriate right now LOLOL!!!!!

[Maha]

I've done it myself, and I wish I hadn't.


Fag.<tencharacters>

Interesting combination of words, have you thought about the environment in which you live? even your diet could sway your desire to fullfil the inner man. :lol:

[jrandom]

The person is just not satisfied sexually in the marriage, but is not willing to let this destroy the relationship, where kids might usually be involved...

My observation in a handful of cases has been that this justification is usually disingenuous bullshit, and that the relationship eventually gets destroyed regardless, with the added damage of an ongoing deception being uncovered.

Frankly, having a mum and dad who live in different houses never killed a kid. Mine seem to be doing OK, although I'll have to come back to you with an update on that in another ten years time...


It always amazes me how much people underestimate the actual need for properly satisfying sexual rapport in a marriage.

Indeed! I would suggest that in a truly dire case of sexual mismatching, either:

A. The frigid parter would consent to the unsatisfied partner satisfying themselves elsewhere - after all, sex can't be that important, or the frigid one would be more interested in it, right?

or

B. It's a valid and sensible reason for separation.

Either of the above, however, must surely be better than lies and deception.

[007XX]

My observation in a handful of cases has been that this justification is usually disingenuous bullshit, and that the relationship eventually gets destroyed regardless, with the added damage of an ongoing deception being uncovered.

Frankly, having a mum and dad who live in different houses never killed a kid. Mine seem to be doing OK, although I'll have to come back to you with an update on that in another ten years time...



Indeed! I would suggest that in a truly dire case of sexual mismatching, either:

A. The frigid parter would consent to the unsatisfied partner satisfying themselves elsewhere - after all, sex can't be that important, or the frigid one would be more interested in it, right?

or

B. It's a valid and sensible reason for separation.

Either of the above, however, must surely be better than lies and deception.

A very strong stance on the subject, but I agree mostly with what you're saying.

[Wolf]

My observation in a handful of cases has been that this justification is usually disingenuous bullshit, and that the relationship eventually gets destroyed regardless, with the added damage of an ongoing deception being uncovered.
Yep. IMO it's better to honestly break off the relationship and be thought of as a prick than to cheat, get caught and be thought of as a cheating and lying prick.

"Dad and mum broke up and now live in separate houses" vs "Dad cheated on mum and lied to us for years before mum found out and kicked him out."

Frankly, I would not have my kids saying the latter...

[jrandom]

A very strong stance on the subject, but I agree mostly with what you're saying.

And, having said all that, an acquaintance of mine (nothing to do with KB) is in a position very similar to what you describe.

For various reasons, I empathise, and I don't presume to judge him for it.

Life's a complicated bastard, really, isn't it?

[007XX]

And, having said all that, an acquaintance of mine (nothing to do with KB) is in a position very similar to what you describe.

For various reasons, I empathise, and I don't presume to judge him for it.

Life's a complicated bastard, really, isn't it?

Oh it most definitely is, especially if you have empathy. I often think that being an uncaring b*tch would help, but I very quickly give up the idea :laugh:

Point is though, life would be boring if it was always straight forward. You just got to keep an eye on the Silver Lining.

[SixPackBack]

Cheating I would suspect to many people is another time constraint attached to thier busy lives.

Frankly by the time I have visited the gym, worked my ass off, cuddled up to the family, shit-showered and shaved the day is over.

Seriously who has time to cheat?

[Grahameeboy]

Take it all the way up to 69 and see what happens!

No 96 matey.....................

[ManDownUnder]

No 96 matey.....................


...Back to back they faced each other
Drew their swords and shot each other...

[Grahameeboy]

Cheating I would suspect to many people is another time constraint attached to thier busy lives.

Frankly by the time I have visited the gym, worked my ass off, cuddled up to the family, shit-showered and shaved the day is over.

Seriously who has time to cheat?

Which home did you go to??

[jrandom]

No 96 matey.....................

I am so tempted to lemonparty this thread right now.

[ManDownUnder]

Indeed! I would suggest that in a truly dire case of sexual mismatching, either:

A. The frigid parter would consent to the unsatisfied partner satisfying themselves elsewhere - after all, sex can't be that important, or the frigid one would be more interested in it, right?

or

B. It's a valid and sensible reason for separation.

Either of the above, however, must surely be better than lies and deception.

A - yes and no. Your point is a good one but I ask you this - how could someone sexually satisfied (the frigid partner) understand the plight of the other? What you suggest would take an extreme amount of empathy

Which then of course raises the prospect of B...

[Grahameeboy]

I am so tempted to lemonparty this thread right now.

Oh go on......be a devil

[jrandom]

A - yes and no. Your point is a good one but I ask you this - how could someone sexually satisfied (the frigid partner) understand the plight of the other? What you suggest would take an extreme amount of empathy

Which then of course raises the prospect of B...

Well, there you go.

A significant mismatch between partners being discovered over time and requiring an extreme amount of empathy to resolve, or otherwise raising the prospect of separation...

Unfortunate, but it makes good sense to me.

[James Deuce]

Woohoo! Fishing expeditions are cool.

[oldrider]

Nothing there in the poll to specifically reflect my personal "preferences" fantasies etc so I just voted in the male poly bit.

Not really helping your poll I spose but that's as close as it gets anyway. :whistle: Cheers John.

PS: Definitely not into any kind of cheating in any relationship at all!

[GIXser]

where is the option" im a trannie and i love ladyboys ??? this is discrimination you know...

[DougB]

My fifty years married anniversary is later this year.We are still in love and have never cheated.

If you are lucky enough to find the right person this is the way to go and I think luck has a lot to do with it.

Bikes had a lot to do with us, two wheels was our only means of transport. We traveled the road from Kaitaia to Auckland often over all sorts of roads. The arrival of children made bikes inpractical, I still kept the bike but had to get a cage.

My beloved is proud of still having her motorcycle licence but, unlike me she, does not ride now at age 70.

Oldest guy on this forum

[Bikernereid]

Were would you place having threesomes as being acceptable in this poll?

[Grahameeboy]

Were would you place having threesomes as being acceptable in this poll?

You will have to start your own thread dear...............

[kiwifruit]

My fifty years married anniversary is later this year.We are still in love and have never cheated.

If you are lucky enough to find the right person this is the way to go and I think luck has a lot to do with it.

Bikes had a lot to do with us, two wheels was our only means of transport. We traveled the road from Kaitaia to Auckland often over all sorts of roads. The arrival of children made bikes inpractical, I still kept the bike but had to get a cage.

My beloved is proud of still having her motorcycle licence but, unlike me she, does not ride now at age 70.

Oldest guy on this forum

Respect .

[jrandom]

Were would you place having threesomes as being acceptable in this poll?

That's the equivalent of asking where you'd place doggy style.

It's not a question of how you like to have sex; it's a question of what model of ongoing relationship you prefer.

[Bikernereid]

I started the thread that prompted this on. I just want to vote but don't know where I fit in. But if I have to make a choice from what is here I will go for monogamy.


You will have to start your own thread dear...............

[Bikernereid]

It is a choice that you have to make within your relationship. it is about mutual respect and understanding of what is acceptable within your relationship. And has nothing to do with how you have sex. There is another person coming into your relationship which obviously means that you are not being completely monogamous but at the same time you are not a swinger as you are both with the same person as opposed to you both going off with different people.


That's the equivalent of asking where you'd place doggy style.

It's not a question of how you like to have sex; it's a question of what model of ongoing relationship you prefer.

[oldrider]

My fifty years married anniversary is later this year.We are still in love and have never cheated.

If you are lucky enough to find the right person this is the way to go and I think luck has a lot to do with it.

Bikes had a lot to do with us, two wheels was our only means of transport. We traveled the road from Kaitaia to Auckland often over all sorts of roads. The arrival of children made bikes inpractical, I still kept the bike but had to get a cage.

My beloved is proud of still having her motorcycle licence but, unlike me she, does not ride now at age 70.

Oldest guy on this forum

Congrats Doug, it's our 44th tomorrow. Cheers John.

[jrandom]

... has nothing to do with how you have sex. There is another person coming into your relationship which obviously means that you are not being completely monogamous but at the same time you are not a swinger as you are both with the same person as opposed to you both going off with different people.

Goddammit, I hate it when you're right.

[Bikernereid]

What can I say in repsonse to such a wonderful post!!! Thanks hun!!


Goddammit, I hate it when you're right.

[Edbear]

My fifty years married anniversary is later this year.We are still in love and have never cheated.

If you are lucky enough to find the right person this is the way to go and I think luck has a lot to do with it.

Bikes had a lot to do with us, two wheels was our only means of transport. We traveled the road from Kaitaia to Auckland often over all sorts of roads. The arrival of children made bikes inpractical, I still kept the bike but had to get a cage.

My beloved is proud of still having her motorcycle licence but, unlike me she, does not ride now at age 70.

Oldest guy on this forum


Congrats Doug, it's our 44th tomorrow. Cheers John.


Congrats and respect to you both, (and your long suffering wives...:shutup:) We've only been married thirty years, but then we're just youngsters...:sunny:

Personally, my opinion is that promiscuous sex is all about selfishness and self-gratification. Such a person really doesn't care about their "target" despite any protestations to the contrary. If someone wants to get into your pants, he, (and yes it's predominantly males), will say anything and men are usually clever enough to fool a girl into thinking he is serious and genuinely cares for her when the truth is he just wants to satisfy his own sexual desires. The girl is no more than a sex object and sadly, far too many girls fall for it!

If a man really cared about a girl he would be doing what is in her interests, not his. Unfortunately this calls for something called self-control, unselfish motive and genuine love and care, sadly lacking in many these days.

Rant over, as you were...:done:

[Coyote]

Oh it most definitely is, especially if you have empathy. I often think that being an uncaring b*tch would help, but I very quickly give up the idea :laugh:
I've often thought similar. Having no emotional ties, just being promiscuous, not giving a damn if I hurt anyone emotionally, just every weekend I'd go out and get mine. Life would be easier besides going to the clinic every morning after.

But no, I give too much of a damn. My girlfriend has been up in Auckland since Sunday and thoughts of her have taken over my usually bike ridden mind

[007XX]

Goddammit, I hate it when you're right.

:gob:....*falls off chair*........:rofl: (but yes, she has a very good point there!)


What can I say in repsonse to such a wonderful post!!! Thanks hun!!

Print it, then frame it...and place it on your wall in remembrance! :niceone:


I've often thought similar. Having no emotional ties, just being promiscuous, not giving a damn if I hurt anyone emotionally, just every weekend I'd go out and get mine. Life would be easier besides going to the clinic every morning after.

Eeerrr...every morning after wouldn't be quite enough, what with the incubating period for some STDs beign as high as 6 months and all that...But yes, I get what you're saying. Never was I one who had the stomach for it though.


But no, I give too much of a damn. My girlfriend has been up in Auckland since Sunday and thoughts of her have taken over my usually bike ridden mind

:clap: Excellent!!! Ain't love grand? I'm sure you'll find room for both...

[Wolf]

where is then option" im a trannie and i love ladyboys ??? this is discrimination you know...
Sorry, GIXser, forgot you were here...
:bleh:
:devil2:


Were would you place having threesomes as being acceptable in this poll?
Sounds like some form of "poly" relationship if long term.

[Waylander]

The day has come to an end
The sun is over my head
My polyamorous friend
You got me in a mess of trouble again

[Chorus:]
So
Just when you think that you're all right
I'm crawling out from the inside
I never hurt anyone
I never listen at all

They've come to get me again
The cloud is over my head
My polyamorous friend
You got me in a mess of trouble again

[Chorus]

Just stay away from the white light
I'd say your worst side's your best side
I never hurt anyone
I never listen at all

Well how do you know?
Well how do you know?
Well how do you know?
Well how do you know?

[Chorus]

Just stay away from the white light
I'd say your worst side's your best side
I never hurt anyone
I never listen at all
Let's go

[Wolf]

Ah, "Breaking Benjamin".

[carver]

im non committal and a swinger!

[Oakie]

Monogamous here thanks.

In case you're wondering, at this time 143 men have voted on this pole with 102 voting monogamy while 38 women have voted with 29 going monogamy.
Percentage wise that means 71% of men and 76% of women have ticked the monogamy box. Closer than I thought it would have been when the poll was started.

[Wolf]

Percentage wise that means 71% of men and 76% of women have ticked the monogamy box. Closer than I thought it would have been when the poll was started.
Yeah, I've been calculating the percentages as well and it looks like monogamy is far from "outmoded" in the kiwibiker ranks.

[Bikernereid]

I would be interested to see how many of those people who voted for monogamy are on thier first marriage, and if they are divorced was cheating part of the reason for the marriage breakdown. But that is a very personal subject and not really something for a poll on here.

And I never said marriage was 'outmoded' I just asked a question!! Glad to see that people are still happy with what they have no matter what they may be, althought one mans meat is another mans poison still seems to be apt for this subject.


Yeah, I've been calculating the percentages as well and it looks like monogamy is far from "outmoded" in the kiwibiker ranks.

[Big Dog]

I have not read the whole thread but here are my scattered thoughts.

Can you feel something for someone other than you partner?
Does that mean you feel any less for your partner?
Can you really be honest with your partner if you have to lie about it?
Will it affect the lives of the children of the people involved?

I voted polyamorous.
Not becuase I want to have 10 wives or husbands.
Not becuase I want the wife to have ten wives or husbands.

Because every relationship I have ever been in there were lies from me about how I feel, and from them about what they feel.
I would rather live in a world where the person I love the most can tell me, "I like this person and would like your permission to persue it" and vice versa than live in a society constrained by a one love approach.

Love is of no value unless it is freely given.

[RiderInBlack]

"There can only be one" for me, cause it's dam hard just keeping one happy (God knows I've tried) let alone two or more.
My relationships end well before the cheating stage. Is far as I'm concerned if ya can't respect ya partner enough not ta cheat on them, then it is not a relationship.
Have had bed buddies/f*ck mates (what ever ya like ta call it). They are all well a good as long as both of ya are not overly committed to each other. Dam well hurts if if ya fall for a Bed Buddy and they don't want ta commit (been on both sides of that so know what that's like).

[Wolf]

OK, the poll closed on Valentine's Day and here are the results.

Of the 193 respondents, 78.76% were male, 21.24% were female - no idea if that's a proportionate sample of current KB membership.

Within the male "population" (that subset of KBers that are male and responded to the poll), the results are as follows:

Monogamy: 71.05%
Some form of Poly[gamy/gyny/andry/amory/fidelity]: 11.84%
Swinging: 5.92%
Non-commital: 7.89%
(making a total "Consensual non-monogamy" of 25.66%)
Cheating: 3.29%

For the females' part:

Monogamy: 78.05%
Some form of Poly[gamy/gyny/andry/amory/fidelity]: 2.44%
Swinging: 9.76%
Non-commital: 4.88%
(making a total "Consensual non-monogamy" of 17.07%)
Cheating: 4.88%

Monogamy is way out in the lead for both sexes with a greater percentage of men being open to consensual non-monogamy than women and a higher percentage of women than men being partial to non-consensual non-monogamy (aka "infidelity").

What does this mean?

Who knows? Perhaps we on-line bikers who actually respond to polls tend to be a "conservative" lot :devil2:

Thanks to those who responded to the poll and those who posted (here and in private), it has been most interesting.

[Edbear]

Interesting results, and I suspect that a poll of most morality, or serious, issues would be of a similar proportion. Think, vandalism, stealing, childrearing, work ethics, etc. It seems it is indeed the "minority who spoil it for the majority" on most issues.

[Big Dog]

A good question regarding this is how many peoples response was based on societal norm and how many people responded based on having tried different models?

Many people are only monogamous because that is how it has always been done and what is expected of them by their partners.

Don't get me wrong I am not being cynical, there is a place for monogamy - that place is when both people feel a desire to be monogamous.

I do question the validity (honesty?) of remaining monogamous out of expectation rather than actual loyalty.

But what do I know...