FORD: Just for those who do give a shit

[homer]

Did you know

In 2010 the new fords will have a v6 motor instead of the straight 6

Dont know about anyone else but if your going to make a holden in to a ford they may as well amalgamate


i definately wont be buying a v6 ford ever.....v8 now thats all different

[The Stranger]

Did you know

In 2010 the new fords will have a v6 motor instead of the straight 6

Dont know about anyone else but if your going to make a holden in to a ford they may as well amalgamate


i definately wont be buying a v6 ford ever.....v8 now thats all different

Holden have had a V6 for a number of years so wont that be making a ford into a Holden?

[homer]

well yeah maybe but some holdens actually had straight 4 cylinder BLUE motors in them
about 1982 commodore

so dosnt that make them more like a ford
and yes ive seen a blue ford engine in a commy

[turtleman]

What're you on about - Ford have had a V6 for decades!

Look up the 3L Capri, MkIV Zephy, Telstar XRi, Granada...

The Holden Commodore 4 cylinder of the late 70's and early 80's came from Opel initially, and then the 'Starfire' 4 cyl was introduced to replace them - designed an manufactured in Australia. Both were relative boat anchors !

[MaxB]

I'm guessing thet will use the Duratec motor used in the States. It has its origins in a Mazda design. The biggest it goes up to is 3.7 litres so maybe we will get a bored out version. It is a very good motor found in Jags Lincolns and Land Rovers but it is just not the same. Soon all cars vaguely connected with Ford will be the same the world over. What a boring world.

[Mikkel]

Dinosaurs... who car(e)s?

[FJRider]

Did you know

In 2010 the new fords will have a v6 motor instead of the straight 6

Dont know about anyone else but if your going to make a holden in to a ford they may as well amalgamate


FORD were making V6's, LONG before holden copied.

[davereid]

I'm guessing thet will use the Duratec motor used in the States. It has its origins in a Mazda design. The biggest it goes up to is 3.7 litres so maybe we will get a bored out version. It is a very good motor found in Jags Lincolns and Land Rovers but it is just not the same. Soon all cars vaguely connected with Ford will be the same the world over. What a boring world.

Yeah, its a pretty good motor. No doubt Ford will be looking to make one motor for the world, rather than lots of variants in each different country.

Ford have also made a V12 version of the Duratec, which they use in the Aston Martin.

I see today that Mitsubishi have announced they will be ending Aussie assembly. They gambled big-time on the 380, and it has been a flop.

G.M. are still on death-row, it will be interesting to see how they manage the next decade.

[MSTRS]

Who gives a fuck? Holden have won Bathurst more times than Ford.:clap:

[Finn]

You can almost smell Lion Red and body odour in this thread.

[The Stranger]

Who gives a fuck? Holden have won Bathurst more times than Ford.:clap:

It would still be a one horse race had the rules not been changed to cripple Holdens handling and "level the playing field" - albeit at a lower level to suit ford.

[The Stranger]

*cough* F1, WRC, Lemans *cough*


Comparing a small Australian division to the entire ford motor company.

[Edbear]

Dinosaurs... who car(e)s?



Yeah, but Dinosaurs that won't die. :2guns:

When it comes to V6's, I've been blown away by our '96 Honda Legend, 3.5lt, V-tec, 215hp, (170kw), and 311nm of torque. Tricky auto trans and all the fruit including full leather interior with heated seats, accurate cruise control and ABS brakes. This car is now 12 years old and performs! It'll wind the speedo off the clock before you can say, "Oops! Sorry officer!" :whistle:

Still a better car than the latest offerings from Ford or GM!:yes:

[MSTRS]

*cough* F1, WRC, Lemans *cough*
Never heard of them...besides, we're talking real cars anyway.
;)

[Mully]

It would still be a one horse race had the rules not been changed to cripple Holdens handling and "level the playing field" - albeit at a lower level to suit ford.

And of course, had the rules not been changed to exclude Skylines, it could be much more interesting.

Sneaky like a V8 fox, old AVESCO. They knew the good old Aussie boys with their VBs and XXXXs wouldn't want to see Johnny Jappa kicking the hell out of the locals. It'd probably raise domestic abuse rates.

[Hitcher]

It's about time economic reality forced its way into the heads of Ford Australia. How many decades do they really think they can keep recycling 1970s running gear and think that their buyers won't notice? One would have thought that they would have learned their lesson after the god-awful product that was the AU. Truly sad that was. "It's the Internet address for Australia," the PR hacks gushed. BA is the country code for Bosnia and Herzegovina. Who really gives a fuck?

Holden has a new model update on the Commodore at at most two-yearly intervals. Each "new" model Falcon has to last 10 years i.e. there have been five Commodore changes in the same period. It took Ford 30 years past its use-by date to finally abandon the banjo rear axle in its Falcon sedans. It's taken it slightly longer to see the light with its agricultural straight sixes.

If Ford was smart they would put a Falcon badge onto a right-hand-drive Taurus for the Aussie market, rather than continue the fallacy that there is something truly special about a "Great Australian Motor Car".

Maybe they've finally run out of spares in the parts bin at Geelong. After all that was the whole point of the Territory, now wasn't it?

[The Stranger]

And of course, had the rules not been changed to exclude Skylines, it could be much more interesting.

Sneaky like a V8 fox, old AVESCO. They knew the good old Aussie boys with their VBs and XXXXs wouldn't want to see Johnny Jappa kicking the hell out of the locals. It'd probably raise domestic abuse rates.

Why should they? the japs are welcome to run thier own races, no one's stopping them, hell the japs can even include fords and Holdens if they like.

Austratian touring cars - why should everyone else hijack their good work? Fuckem, get their own race.

[ManDownUnder]

You can almost smell Lion Red and body odour in this thread.

Double brown you mean.... but yes.

[The Pastor]

Double brown you mean.... but yes.
dont you bad mouth the doubble brown! (btw can u get doubble brown in bottles? cans just arnt as classy)

[ManDownUnder]

dont you bad mouth the doubble brown! (btw can u get doubble brown in bottles? cans just arnt as classy)

I won't - in fact I don't put it anywhere near my mouth.

The only reason they're force to bottle and sell the stuff is because landfills won't take it and all the "real storage facilities" are busy with nuclear waste...

[MSTRS]

Nothing classy about draught beers, no matter what colour it is called.

[The Pastor]

I won't - in fact I don't put it anywhere near my mouth.

The only reason they're force to bottle and sell the stuff is because landfills won't take it and all the "real storage facilities" are busy with nuclear waste...
doubble brown may be like having sex in a canoe (f'ing close to water) but its not a bad drink. Not by a long shot.

[MSTRS]

doubble brown may be like having sex in a canoe (f'ing close to water) but its not a bad drink. Not by a long shot.

Sensible people would prefer to drink Wanganui river water...even if there is the odd Ford in it from up Pipiriki way

[Swoop]

Never heard of them...besides, we're talking real cars anyway.
;)
Correct. A type of car that you can have in your garage instead of on your bedroom wall.

[Mikkel]

Yeah, but Dinosaurs that won't die. :2guns:

I'd prefer the tuatara or a crocodile then!


Correct. A type of car that you can have in your garage instead of on your bedroom wall.

You mean like a toyota corolla? They rock!

Besides I hope grown-ups don't have car posters in their bedrooms... :lol:
...everyone knows that porn belongs on the computer!

[Swoop]

You mean like a toyota corolla? They rock!
In a manner of speaking.
F1 cars might be attractive to some, but a touring car is actually affordable to the average petrolhead, without having to mortgage a small South American country to do so.

[scumdog]

If Ford was smart they would put a Falcon badge onto a right-hand-drive Taurus for the Aussie market, rather than continue the fallacy that there is something truly special about a "Great Australian Motor Car".

Maybe they've finally run out of spares in the parts bin at Geelong. After all that was the whole point of the Territory, now wasn't it?

The new commode ain't so flash.
An 'A' pillar wider than my T-birds 'C'-pillar leaving you with a forward vision blind-spot from hell. (Maybe that's why the Buller cop didn't see the bikes until too late?)

EDIT: They made the 'A' pillar that thick to house the air-bags -- they put air-bags in to make the car safer for the occupants - but made a larger blind-spot for the driver and created a hazard.....go figure!!

The rear is so hard to see out of that there one of those proximity beeper gizmos - which don't work if you haven't let off the handbrake COMPLETELY (the h-brake warning doesn't work at that level) so you risk reversing into things that you were expecting a beep or two to warn you of.

I could go on i.e interior trim falling off etc.

Good point?
The boot hinges now no longer crush/gouge everything inside the boot when you shut it.

All makes have faults, none are a 'Golden Car' - bereft of faults or design error.

[more_fasterer]

Why should they? the japs are welcome to run thier own races, no one's stopping them, hell the japs can even include fords and Holdens if they like.

Austratian touring cars - why should everyone else hijack their good work? Fuckem, get their own race.

Hahahaha they have their own race, and a V8 supercar would technically be able to enter, but may have difficulty keeping up in GT300, let alone GT500...

Please elaborate how stifling diversity by writing the rules to specifically only allow australian-produced cars is "good work". Granted, the racing is close - but there are other means to ensure parity than making every car use cart springs and pushrods. Look at the above jap racing series, A1GP and european touring cars - they achieve close racing through ballast loading.

V8 supercars would be that much more interesting if other V8, rear-wheel drive cars were allowed to enter. Chrysler 300C's, Merc E-class (same thing really), BMW 540, Toyota Aristo etc etc would spice things up. Chances are the target market of one-eyed aussies wouldn't be interested though.

[rudolph]

Ford Cleveland and Windsor motors were always lots of fun:niceone:

[Mully]

If Ford was smart they would put a Falcon badge onto a right-hand-drive Taurus for the Aussie market, rather than continue the fallacy that there is something truly special about a "Great Australian Motor Car".


Apparently, when the AU was making Ford AU bleed red ink from every orifice, they considered this. According to their research, no-one in Aussie would buy a FWD Falcon, and Ford Global had nothing else suitable (the Taurus was designed to be both LHD and RHD, IIRC) in the stable to stick the Falcon badge on.

Plus, Aussies will wave the flag at any opportunity, so that would hand the win to Holden by default.

[The Stranger]

Please elaborate how stifling diversity by writing the rules to specifically only allow australian-produced cars is "good work".

Why would I? that's your proposition not mine, you support it if you like, or not.
The good work to which I refer is the promotion and running of the event itself.

[bucket boy]

Ford Cleveland and Windsor motors were always lots of fun:niceone:

as a boat anchor

[scumdog]

as a boat anchor
No, no -that would be the 272 to 312 Y-block Ford you're referingto...

[Hitcher]

Interestingly the only current truly Aussie designed-and-built car is the Mitsubishi 380. Why isn't this model allowed in the farce that passes for "Australian Touring Car" racing? I'm sure Mitsubishi could dust off a V8 if needed to build a one-off car, on the same basis that Ford and Holden currently do.

The whole Ford vs Holden thing on which this "motor sport" is predicated amazes me. With homologation they're essentially identical cars with different body shells. If unbridled open slather were allowed, only the Holdens would win.

[Coldrider]

....I'm sure Mitsubishi could dust off a V8 if needed to build a one-off car, on the same basis that Ford and Holden currently do.
Mitsubishi would not be capable of engineering an 'Aussie built' (to qualify) 'ol pushrod V8 engine, and indeed why would they want to.

[Motu]

The old Falcon 6 cyl block goes right back to the very first Falcons,I've lost count of the different cyl heads they've put on it.I don't think any car has been totally designed in Australia,Holdens were all GM USA until the Commodore,which was just a rebadged Opel Commodore.Opel does to design work,then hands the plans to the likes of Vauxhall and Holden and lets them put in the power train and trim.Ford do the same.The Mitsi 380 met the same fate as the P76 - the Aussies will sink anything that dares compete with the big 3....er,make that the little 2.

[Timber020]

What? Change the straight 6? It has to be the most flogged dead donkey on the planet. You would have thought after Holden went to nissan motors that ford might have picked up a clue, but no, there were obviously to many surplus parts going cheap in the USA , we had a local farmer who ended up with 3 engines in his brand new EA. Good bye and good riddance, about time the falcon saw a modern powerplant.

[scumdog]

The old Falcon 6 cyl block goes right back to the very first Falcons,I've lost count of the different cyl heads they've put on it.I don't think any car has been totally designed in Australia,Holdens were all GM USA until the Commodore,which was just a rebadged Opel Commodore.Opel does to design work,then hands the plans to the likes of Vauxhall and Holden and lets them put in the power train and trim.Ford do the same.The Mitsi 380 met the same fate as the P76 - the Aussies will sink anything that dares compete with the big 3....er,make that the little 2.

And don't forget the V6 commode donk was derived from the creaky old Buick motor of the 60's.

And while the Ford inline 6 is also old it made a good showing in the XR6 and turbo XR6 (or are we not allowed to remember that?)

[Motu]

And don't forget the V6 commode donk was derived from the creaky old Buick motor of the 60's.

And while the Ford inline 6 is also old it made a good showing in the XR6 and turbo XR6 (or are we not allowed to remember that?)

I'm not knocking the ford 6,just pointing out that it has been around for a long long time.Actually,it's too long,alloy heads bend on it.The red rocker cover 250 was the pick of them all....it was sorted,then they tried to tart it up.Max torque at 1600 rpm,loved those old things.

The GM3800 in my opinion is the best motor ever on NZ roads - it's simple and bullet proof.Name a car in the last 20 years that you can do a water pump on in 1/2 hr.This is just my take on things after 38 years fixing cars for a living....I'm lazy and like easy cars to work on that don't break down.

[MaxB]

What pisses me off is there seems to be no engineering reason to switch from an inline to a V6. The only thing seems to be that it is easier to meet the frontal impact crash regulations. Mercedes quote this as a reason for dropping their I6.

BMW are still kicking out great inline 6s that have no problem getting over 200kW from 3 litres. Like I said before all Fords offerings wil have the same type of motor. Yawn.

So now we have a Holden Commodore with a glorified Vauxhall Vectra motor and a Ford Falcon with a bored out Mondeo V6 in it.

[homer]

What're you on about - Ford have had a V6 for decades!

Look up the 3L Capri, MkIV Zephy, Telstar XRi, Granada...

The Holden Commodore 4 cylinder of the late 70's and early 80's came from Opel initially, and then the 'Starfire' 4 cyl was introduced to replace them - designed an manufactured in Australia. Both were relative boat anchors !

I guess you havnt seen a commodore sedan with the 1.9 litre 4 cyl in it i bet is blue
most likely a SL model sedan
Yeah i d guess good for anchors

[homer]

Apparently, when the AU was making Ford AU bleed red ink from every orifice, they considered this. According to their research, no-one in Aussie would buy a FWD Falcon, and Ford Global had nothing else suitable (the Taurus was designed to be both LHD and RHD, IIRC) in the stable to stick the Falcon badge on.

Plus, Aussies will wave the flag at any opportunity, so that would hand the win to Holden by default.

Yes the taurus was designed for the yanks and a lot went there some ended up as well

[homer]

I'm not knocking the ford 6,just pointing out that it has been around for a long long time.Actually,it's too long,alloy heads bend on it.The red rocker cover 250 was the pick of them all....it was sorted,then they tried to tart it up.Max torque at 1600 rpm,loved those old things.

The GM3800 in my opinion is the best motor ever on NZ roads - it's simple and bullet proof.Name a car in the last 20 years that you can do a water pump on in 1/2 hr.This is just my take on things after 38 years fixing cars for a living....I'm lazy and like easy cars to work on that don't break down.

Is the falcon engine today not simple ,considering its decades old

[homer]

What? Change the straight 6? It has to be the most flogged dead donkey on the planet. You would have thought after Holden went to nissan motors that ford might have picked up a clue, but no, there were obviously to many surplus parts going cheap in the USA , we had a local farmer who ended up with 3 engines in his brand new EA. Good bye and good riddance, about time the falcon saw a modern powerplant.

The falcon 6 inline is a very good engine ,for those who want more then you get a V8 dont you ?
considering that the inline 6 is now DOHC and a 4 speed auto with OD and its got VCT the cars dont even change down gears going over most hills .....unless you make it ....which i love the most .
All in all there a wicked motor old or not

[homer]

Nothing classy about draught beers, no matter what colour it is called.

I agree needs to be a lager

[turtleman]

I guess you havnt seen a commodore sedan with the 1.9 litre 4 cyl in it i bet is blue
most likely a SL model sedan
Yeah i d guess good for anchors

Yes, 1.9L, and I have seen 'em - used to own a 1980 Sunbird with the blue starfire motor in it, and parents had an '81 Commodore with the same motor.

What's your point ? What relevance is the colour ?

I also once had a Datsun Sunny and the motor in that was blue, too !

Didn't make any of 'em Fords....

[Tall Learner]

Who gives a fuck? Holden have won Bathurst more times than Ford.:clap:

Ford pepl r guna b chasing me up after this :chase:
Heres someone that I can relate to:2thumbsup haha, honestly all of you who think ford can best holden in any way shape or form need to get a checkup..... ur delusional (Dnt know if that spelt rite) Holden Rule ford any day

True: Ford Suck
False:Holden suck

[Swoop]

Yes, 1.9L, and I have seen 'em - used to own a 1980 Sunbird with the blue starfire motor in it, and parents had an '81 Commodore with the same motor.
I had a VC Commodore with the 4-cyl Starfire motor. Reliable as anything and a good car!
The nissan engine in my VL cracked it's head. Yay...:no:
The 4.1L falcon panelvan had very few problems. Would I go back to a ford? No.

[NOMIS]

Worked for holden for 3 years as aprentice had a friend who worked for ford, comparing storys they where both as bad as each other, for the price of a new commie or falcon you could get the same luxury, performance, handling you name it from a jappa thats more reliable and probally half the price.

I owned a vl commie 3l rb30et motor came str8 out and in went the 308 wish i kept the Rb30 and turbod it would of been cheaper easier and made more power, though cant beat the sound of an 8

[MSTRS]

Ford pepl r guna b chasing me up after this :chase:
Heres someone that I can relate to:2thumbsup haha, honestly all of you who think ford can best holden in any way shape or form need to get a checkup..... ur delusional (Dnt know if that spelt rite) Holden Rule ford any day

True: Ford Suck
False:Holden suck

You obviously buy into the 2 camps argument...
I just like to stir up the hornet's nest over this issue. YT's family are prime targets for this. Blind adherence to Ford no matter what. Fuck, it is pathetic.
Personally, I couldn't care less what maker's badge is on a vehicle...either it is a good design that does what I want and is reliable . Or it is not. Scumdog has the answer - some good in every make/model and some lemons.

[scumdog]

True: Ford Suck
False:Holden suck

Fact: Who cares???:blink:

[onearmedbandit]

Ford pepl r guna b chasing me up after this :chase:
Heres someone that I can relate to:2thumbsup haha, honestly all of you who think ford can best holden in any way shape or form need to get a checkup..... ur delusional (Dnt know if that spelt rite) Holden Rule ford any day

True: Ford Suck
False:Holden suck

Friend of mine summed it up best one day when he said to me, "Different bucket, same shit".

[davereid]

The nissan engine in my VL cracked it's head. Yay...:no:

That was not Nissans fault - Holden did a dodgy fix squeezing the RB series motor in, which meant that filling the radiator did not mean there was enough coolant in the engine.

Lots of RB series Holdens had engine problems as a result.

[Boob Johnson]

Yeah, but Dinosaurs that won't die. :2guns:

When it comes to V6's, I've been blown away by our '96 Honda Legend, 3.5lt, V-tec, 215hp, (170kw), and 311nm of torque. Tricky auto trans and all the fruit including full leather interior with heated seats, accurate cruise control and ABS brakes. This car is now 12 years old and performs! It'll wind the speedo off the clock before you can say, "Oops! Sorry officer!" :whistle:

Still a better car than the latest offerings from Ford or GM!:yes:
Damn straight, I had a 3.2 Legend a few years back, bloody quality car unlike Ford/Holden. Bring back the Godzilla's to Bathurst :girlfight:

[Ixion]

The rot set in when they put those new fangled overhead valves in the engine. Gives them idea beyond their station.

[rudolph]

as a boat anchor

My old Falcon ute has a very powerful boat anchor then:eek:

[davereid]

The rot set in when they put those new fangled overhead valves in the engine. Gives them idea beyond their station.

Yeah. I have an old Jaguar. (Actually, as they are so unreliable I have several !)

The engine was first built during WW2.

It had double overhead cam with duplex cam chains. It had a true cross flow head, with a hemispherical combustion chamber and a central spark plug. It also made 100hp per litre in race trim.

The USA at the time...Made side valve V8s.

In about 1955 they got overhead valves, but GM have only just put overhead cam on the Gen IV V8.

The big V8s are great relaxed engines, but to call them a dinosaur is unkind. In 1955 they were are dinosaur. Now they are a really old dinosaur.

[homer]

Yes, 1.9L, and I have seen 'em - used to own a 1980 Sunbird with the blue starfire motor in it, and parents had an '81 Commodore with the same motor.

What's your point ? What relevance is the colour ?

I also once had a Datsun Sunny and the motor in that was blue, too !

Didn't make any of 'em Fords....

cause i think you ll find there a ford engine
thats all
as some ford cars in aussie are nissan and or mazda
i just thought those blue motors were actually ford engines

[Motu]

i just thought those blue motors were actually ford engines

:clap: oh boy,I'm lost for words.....:gob:

[turtleman]

cause i think you ll find there a ford engine
thats all
as some ford cars in aussie are nissan and or mazda
i just thought those blue motors were actually ford engines

Nah, as I said earlier, the original 1.9L motor came from Opel (GM Germany, I think) and was in the Sunbird, but I don't think it made it into the Commodore - these were the 'Starfire' motor, developed by GM Australia, a few of which were put into the last of the Sunbirds as they were being phased out and the Commodore was coming in. Commodores started production around '78 or '79, and the last of the Sunbirds was 1980 (or possibly '81). The 4 cylinder Starfire motor was eventually replaced with a Nissan unit, and then phased out altogether. The Blue 6 cylinder 3300 was also replaced with a 3.0 Litre Nissan unit, which eventually gave way to the 3.8L V6 which I believe was based on the 3.8L Buick unit.

Never a Ford motor in a Holden, but a couple of others did get there....

[Motu]

The Starfire was in a Toyota Corona,hooked up to a Cortina gearbox.Tax incentives to use made in Australia components.The Starfire engines were used as the base model Commodore in the New Zealand market,they were not as common in Aust.When the VN came out they used the Camira engine as the economy model,but that was a lot of body for a little 4 cyl to haul around and they were dropped pretty quick.

[Maha]

as a boat anchor

The 351 could could get up and boogy like CMNTD on speed....:banana:

[MSTRS]

...The Blue 6 cylinder 3300 was also replaced with a 3.0 Litre Nissan unit....

Can someone confirm (or not) my long-held belief that Holden desperately wanted to go fuel-injected and couldn't get it to work right in their 202, so used the Nissan 3L in detuned state as a stop gap measure?

[Motu]

Mainly emissions I would say,the 7 bearing motor was very old and just not capable of meeting modern emission requirements.The last of them were fuel injected and seemed to run ok.I don't think the Nissan was detuned,but they made a 2 litre version which was certainly less powerfull than the 3 litre for some reason.

[MSTRS]

Mainly emissions I would say,the 7 bearing motor was very old and just not capable of meeting modern emission requirements.The last of them were fuel injected and seemed to run ok.I don't think the Nissan was detuned,but they made a 2 litre version which was certainly less powerfull than the 3 litre for some reason.

We had a Nissan GXE Skyline, 'same' motor...similar sized vehicle to the Commodore, but the Nissan would eat any of the Holdens. Not unusual to light up the back in third...

[Motu]

The 2 litre was the base NZ model,the 3 litre was not very common,it was an option,and came with other options as well.You were cleaning up 2 litre Commodores with your 3 litre Skyline.Sorry to burst your bubble.....

[ynot slow]

Damn straight, I had a 3.2 Legend a few years back, bloody quality car unlike Ford/Holden. Bring back the Godzilla's to Bathurst :girlfight:

Agree with the honda cars.

BUT Fuck Off with godzilla's at bathurst.:angry2:P/T.

Bathurst has to be a v8 only and ford/holden the aussie v8 consortium have that sussed,ever watched anything other than a supercar(v8)go around the mountain,mate they are slowwww,the year I was there,the 3hr race on the saturday had detuned fords,holdens,vipers,ferrari even a lambo and Jim Richards won in a porshe,his time for fastest race lap was 2 seconds slower than the slowest supercar qualifyer.

Yep holden may have won more races but during the late 70 and 80's the holdens either torana,commodore were essentially running ford 9" diffs.

Owned a Fairmont XBV8 on lpg,good power and economy, trans cost $1400 to rebuild back in 1989,an XA 200 and good except for rust,mind you both had rust issues.There are pros and cons for both,me ford for ages fan and will be,doesn't mean I wouldn't buy a commodore though,if I was granted either a SS or XR8 I'd drive them both and make the choice,the ford would have a slight edge due to parochialism,but if the holden was better,i.e finish,comfort,handling economy(yeah right for both)I'd have no probs owning it,shit would still cheer the fords in races.Mind you I wouldn't say no to a Euro Honda v6 Accord,the last two Hondas' owned have been great.

[onearmedbandit]

Not trying to argue with you Motu, but in my time in the car industry I came across more RB30 powered VL's then RB20. And the RB20 was a slow sack of shit alright. :lol:

[yungatart]

The 2 litre was the base NZ model,the 3 litre was not very common,it was an option,and came with other options as well.You were cleaning up 2 litre Commodores with your 3 litre Skyline.Sorry to burst your bubble.....

It cleaned up 3L Commodores too, (as well as damn near every model of Ford!)
We asked our mechanic about it and he said the motor was detuned for the Commodore.

[Mully]

It cleaned up 3L Commodores too, (as well as damn near every model of Ford!)
We asked our mechanic about it and he said the motor was detuned for the Commodore.

The Commodore probably weighed twice your Skyline as well.

And using the V8 supercars to justify one as better than the other is bollocks. You can't buy a new 5l V8 in either car any more, they run homologated diffs, gearboxes, brakes, suspension and AVESCO mess with the aerodynamics to level the playing field.

As a spectacle, sure, why not. But as a comparison (some hard-core people I know) not worth the energy.

Oh, and BUY MY COMMODORE YOU BASTARDS. I want a bike

[RT527]

The new commode ain't so flash.
An 'A' pillar wider than my T-birds 'C'-pillar leaving you with a forward vision blind-spot from hell. (Maybe that's why the Buller cop didn't see the bikes until too late?)

EDIT: They made the 'A' pillar that thick to house the air-bags -- they put air-bags in to make the car safer for the occupants - but made a larger blind-spot for the driver and created a hazard.....go figure!!

The rear is so hard to see out of that there one of those proximity beeper gizmos - which don't work if you haven't let off the handbrake COMPLETELY (the h-brake warning doesn't work at that level) so you risk reversing into things that you were expecting a beep or two to warn you of.

I could go on i.e interior trim falling off etc.

Good point?
The boot hinges now no longer crush/gouge everything inside the boot when you shut it.

All makes have faults, none are a 'Golden Car' - bereft of faults or design error.

Huh I thought they had the Air bags in the B pillar by the driver , and also curtains to drop to stop impact with the road/ glass etc....didn't realize they were in the A pillar..... plus the steering wheel holds one.


B`pillar is the one directly beside the driver......is it that one you meant....Ive never come across one in the A pillar....would be very interested if someone could enlighten me as this would make a huge difference to extricating someone and keeping myself safe at the same time.

[The Stranger]

Owned a Fairmont XBV8 on lpg,good power and economy, trans cost $1400 to rebuild back in 1989.

There in lies the problem. My deep seated dislike for Ford stems not from some whim, but from experience. We operated a fleet for a while, ok, maybe a bad batch (over a number of years), but the problems we had with Ford engines, diffs and transmissions where huge, not to mention things like closing the door and the handle comes off in your hand or driving along and the rear view mirror falls off the window etc etc.
The GM stuff was not what you would call good, but it was no where near as bad as the Fords.

Toyota was a bloody breeze.

I bought a Faclon for myself, NEVER again. It wasn't too bad until it got out of warranty (1yr at that stage) it cost me more in servicing and repairs in 12 months than about 15 yreas of car ownership. Oil leaks - it took Ford 100 years of trying to perfect the oil leak and they aren't about to stop now.

[RT527]

Agree with the honda cars.

BUT Fuck Off with godzilla's at bathurst.:angry2:P/T.

Bathurst has to be a v8 only and ford/holden the aussie v8 consortium have that sussed,ever watched anything other than a supercar(v8)go around the mountain,mate they are slowwww,the year I was there,the 3hr race on the saturday had detuned fords,holdens,vipers,ferrari even a lambo and Jim Richards won in a porshe,his time for fastest race lap was 2 seconds slower than the slowest supercar qualifyer.

Yep holden may have won more races but during the late 70 and 80's the holdens either torana,commodore were essentially running ford 9" diffs.

Owned a Fairmont XBV8 on lpg,good power and economy, trans cost $1400 to rebuild back in 1989,an XA 200 and good except for rust,mind you both had rust issues.There are pros and cons for both,me ford for ages fan and will be,doesn't mean I wouldn't buy a commodore though,if I was granted either a SS or XR8 I'd drive them both and make the choice,the ford would have a slight edge due to parochialism,but if the holden was better,i.e finish,comfort,handling economy(yeah right for both)I'd have no probs owning it,shit would still cheer the fords in races.Mind you I wouldn't say no to a Euro Honda v6 Accord,the last two Hondas' owned have been great.

Was in a ss holden at Pukekohe last weekend, it was FIV1 (First Incident Vehicle) I was the Firefighter responsible for protecting the Paramedic(who happened to be Qkchicks mum !) was an awesome day.....we had a couple of incidents to deal with due to the wet weather, but back to the topic, I didn't find the ss anything special , Ive driven an xr8 and thought it went better, but I did like the comfort of the leather seats, Plus we had a real good driver too so he made it look like a good car, which Im sure it is....( just to keep you holden fans happy).

All in all I dont think theres much difference between ford and holden, both sport ancient technology in flashed up shells, with aerodynamics no better than a Brick.

[onearmedbandit]

B`pillar is the one directly beside the driver......is it that one you meant....Ive never come across one in the A pillar....would be very interested if someone could enlighten me as this would make a huge difference to extricating someone and keeping myself safe at the same time.

Not sure about the commodores but I've seen plenty of cars with multiple SRS, including in the A pillar. Late model Japanese and Euro stuff.

10 year old article last updated in 2007 making reference to A pillar airbags. (http://cms.firehouse.com/web/online/University-of-Extrication/BMW-Airbags-Offer-Head-Protection/19$721)

[scumdog]

Huh I thought they had the Air bags in the B pillar by the driver , and also curtains to drop to stop impact with the road/ glass etc....didn't realize they were in the A pillar..... plus the steering wheel holds one.


B`pillar is the one directly beside the driver......is it that one you meant....Ive never come across one in the A pillar....would be very interested if someone could enlighten me as this would make a huge difference to extricating someone and keeping myself safe at the same time.

Yup, in the 'A' pillar (the one wot holds the ends of the window-screen apart) - or so the label says (and why else have a pillar that thick??)

Air-bags also scattered throughout the car.

[RT527]

Yup, in the 'A' pillar (the one wot holds the ends of the window-screen apart) - or so the label says (and why else have a pillar that thick??)

Air-bags also scattered throughout the car.

Cheers scumdog.

[Boob Johnson]

Agree with the honda cars.

BUT Fuck Off with godzilla's at bathurst.:angry2:P/T.

Bathurst has to be a v8 only and ford/holden
Angry??? Why angry? Ashamed at the mediocrity that Nissan exposed?

ps: You might wanna go check the rules Tony :yes: :msn-wink:

Bathurst rules (at least then) were to put a car with no more than 600BHP on the track. Nissan did that & made a complete & UTTER mockery of "Folden" (once they got the glitches ironed out). They put so much into it that Nissan actually lost money on the GTR. A true technological marvel in its day (1989 onward), based (loosely) on the 959 Porsche. Ford at the time were the major sponsor of the two other (shit) brands & threaten to pull the $$$ out so they added weights to the GTR's in an effort to even the race up a bit lol. Im guessing you know what happened next aye Tony? :innocent: Yup yup yup, they won again. I believe three times from memory (will have to google that one) then they banned them altogether.......ba ha ha ha. Sorry assed sore loosers if ever I saw one.

I spent close to 3 years living in oz & had many an occa looking at me with a confused look when I answered neither Ford or Holden did I support as they are BOTH piles of horse shit. Give me a euro built car any day of the week, just no comparison. "Folden" have the NZ & Oz market "dumbed down" to except the piles of steaming dog turds they call cars.


End rant :shutup::innocent::laugh:

[homer]

its all interesting reading
but the whole point of the thread was just to see if people who have or want to have a ford falcon or fairmont or any other model that would be changed to having a V6 ,would actually be happy with it

Or rather the

For me the straight engine

[ynot slow]

Straight 6 way to go,where else can ya get a reliable stockcar motor,either ford or holden,back in good ol days,mind you the engines they run today in stockcars with exception of holden v6, are still the ford6 truck ones if you can get one,or au model,still in dark ages,even superstocks still stick with 240.8-248 cu max.Then spend mega $$$to get the quad cam to rev,or the holden,ford v8 antique motors to get 400hp.

The only thing good about the multi branded aussie touring cars of years ago,when both holden and ford decided to drop the v8 doh!! was the twin turbos' or jag racing cars tended to go bang more often.

At least with the avesco interest the playing field is equal,once again this depends who you talk to,re control tyre,suspension,etc.The only difference nowadays is the motor,same gearbox etc.

Still give me the sound of the supercars coming up mountain straight to the top of the mountain,the first time you hear it it is amazing,better than a porsche or turbo scream.

[homer]

yeah nothing wrong with a huge V8

[blue eyed savage]

Straight 6 know one makes them any more.
skyline was the last good straight 6 (rb26dett) nissan dont do the straight 6 any more and the V6 has been around all my life so what r u on about?

[homer]

Straight 6 know one makes them any more.
skyline was the last good straight 6 (rb26dett) nissan dont do the straight 6 any more and the V6 has been around all my life so what r u on about?

how do you figure that when the first ford straight 6 with DOHC VCT went in a 2000 model ford falcon xr6 and its now in the latest BA2 XR 6

so what do u mean they dont make them ,If they dont they still fit them and still will till 2010

[Mully]

At least with the avesco interest the playing field is equal,once again this depends who you talk to,re control tyre,suspension,etc.The only difference nowadays is the motor,same gearbox etc.

Not much difference in motors either, Cast Iron 5l Pushrod V8 limited to 7500rpm. You cannot buy a 5l V8 in either car any longer. So, they are effectively, the same car with a different shell. Holden were not allowed to run the Monaro shell as Ford figured out it would make a much better race car and vetoed it.


Straight 6 know one makes them any more.
skyline was the last good straight 6 (rb26dett) nissan dont do the straight 6 any more and the V6 has been around all my life so what r u on about?

BMW make a couple. Pretty good at it apparently.

My thoughts would be that Ford have very little (Global) use for a straight 6 motor anymore, and want to be able to slot in a global motor. Same reason Holden developed the Alloytech motor in different capacities, so GM can spread the development cost over more units globally.

[MaxB]

I like straight sixes. There have been some great I6s over the years. The Triumph TR6, GT6, the Falcon in its day, Slant 6, Hemi, BMW M-power, Jaguar, Skylines, Rolls-Royce etc etc.

I lost a lot of respect for Mercedes when they switched to the V6 after a century of making inline 6s. They pride themselves on their engineering excellence and IMHO a Merc V6 is a cop out to the bureaucrat. BMW still make an excellent range of motors.

[homer]

I like straight sixes. There have been some great I6s over the years. The Triumph TR6, GT6, the Falcon in its day, Slant 6, Hemi, BMW M-power, Jaguar, Skylines, Rolls-Royce etc etc.

I lost a lot of respect for Mercedes when they switched to the V6 after a century of making inline 6s. They pride themselves on their engineering excellence and IMHO a Merc V6 is a cop out to the bureaucrat. BMW still make an excellent range of motors.

I agree with you totally and wouldnt go away from a inline engine .....unless i can afford to run a V8

[ynot slow]

Straight six,wake up,saw at least 40 at the NZ stockcar champs running either the ford 6 truck engine circa 1970 from ford small trucks,to the au models,last time I checked the XR6 both std and turbo had 6 cylinders inline not a 'v',and pretty sure not alone with that model only,bmw,toyota chaser as well.

[Edbear]

One of the reasons for the increasing popularity of the V6 is to do with crash testing. The shorter length of the V6 allows more flexibility in designing crumple zones at the front of the vehicle.

Another plus over an inline six is the crank flex and twist of the longer shaft at high rpm while the shorter shaft of a V motor is stiffer and stronger.

However it's not all in favour of a V engine either, as they have balancing issues leading to manufacturers experimenting with offset bearing races as some motorcycle manufacturers have.

F1 found the ideal compromise was the V10, but due to the excesive HP they have been able to develop, they are now restricted to 2.5lt V8's and some have been struggling a bit with the unique balancing issues of these motors.

The internal combustion engine is a very inefficient exercise in compromises and until the manufacturers can make more efficient designs economic to produce, they will soldier on with trying to minimise the compromises as best they can.