Cheescutter fails to stop car

[twotyred]

This morning on the way to work, a car coming down the Haywards hill rode along the barrier and over it passing across two on coming lanes to rest against the upside hill.
Debris from the car and barrier hit the two lead cars that were over taking a truck going up the hill with the airborne bumper of the crashing car hitting the windscreen of the first car.
If they had been bikes.....

It was a miracle nobody was killed

surely it wouldn't have happened had the barrier been concrete...:angry2:

[Deano]

Would make a good news story...

[Fatjim]

If anybody cared.

[sunhuntin]

damn... which direction were the two impacted cars heading in? what about the one that jumped the barrier.

i hate the haywards, and will never ever ride it on a bike again.

[Krayy]

Call the Harold and get the story in the news. I'm sure that this will add strings to the bow.

[Number One]

:blink: eek that would've been pretty hair raising to be on the gas and heading towards oncoming flying bits oh and car!

[MSTRS]

This is an event we need as much info on as possible. Our campaign hinges on convincing the apathetic that they are at risk too. In other words, it doesn't matter what your mode of transport is, cheesecutters are not the safety system Transit say they are.

[sunhuntin]

might be an idea to somehow advertise for witnesses to this event? or access to police records, if cops were called out. get a letter to the dom and other large papers, and hopefully they will do a follow up article.

wheres nikoli when shit like this happens?

[twotyred]

Yes cops were called out.
apparently the "driver" changed his story by the time the second police car arrived.
I have been told by a witness that the driver seemed drunk or otherwise intoxicated.

The spooky thing is I went back at 11.00 planning to take pictures and there was no evidence that anything had ever happened... no car, no debri and the barrier has been completely fixed with new bits and retightened etc!...

trying to pretend it never happened perhaps?.... hmmmm

[Deano]

I have been told by a witness that the driver seemed drunk or otherwise intoxicated.



So it doesn't stop trucks, or drunk drivers in cars either ?

[RiderInBlack]

So it doesn't stop trucks, or drunk drivers in cars either ?Which is exactly what we need barriers ta stop, otherwise there is no point it them. Hope the paper/evidence trail can be found on this. It is exact what we need.

[Ocean1]

Would make a good news story...

Would make a better question in parliament.

Anyone got a Dom Post contact? This incident, combined with the mention of the cheescutter campaign is just the ongoing pressure required.

[Genestho]

Im not sure if you guys have your own media person (sorry cant think of the title) but do up a press release and send it to the whole lot - if you have a specific person on media relations then that delegated person can collect all email addys of each media site and save it in your addy folder, whenever you want to comment fire a mass release off to each big paper, they all share the same APN but at least you'll be sure each contact has the correct comments.., you wont need contacts Im sure, if your an organisation or society and/or this is your field/campaign you can comment on this, bloody drunk drivers!!!!:argh:
Pity the evidence has been cleaned up..I think on the Police website theres up to date crime and traffic details as they come, or I THINK..(dont quote me) on the TVone website theres Police reports as they come, cant quite remember where they are..sorry I cant be more specific...

[yungatart]

This is exactly the scenario that the naysayers have said can't/won't happen. I don't actually see them posting in here, either.
If some kind Welly person could extract the information from reliable sources, our campaign to have these nasty things banned would get a leg up!!!

[Genestho]

Yea its not a silly idea to call for the public to send in info, if the evidence gets the quick tidy up, how often is it really happening? Keep plugging, its not going to happen overnight...

[avgas]

surely it wouldn't have happened had the barrier been concrete...:angry2:
I reckon, imagine the damage though if it was 2 lines of 3.5mm thick yellow paint on the road?
Just remember - when it comes to barriers, something is better than nothing.

[yungatart]

I reckon, imagine the damage though if it was 2 lines of 3.5mm thick yellow paint on the road?
Just remember - when it comes to barriers, something is better than nothing.

Tell that to the families who have lost loved ones to a cheesecutter.

[Pex Adams]

The wire barrier will is only designed to stop cages that hits them side on, doing less then 100km (because thats the fastest anyone actually travels in this country:whistle:), so when you have a cages that hits it head on, isn't doing a 100km, or your NOT a cage then they are actually very very fucken USELESS!!!!

We should all just stop paying our registration and say that my money isn't actually going towards making my life any safer:weep::weep::weep:

[Blue Velvet]

which direction were the two impacted cars heading in? what about the one that jumped the barrier.

The cheesecutter on Haywards Hill is on the Hutt side. The two cars overtaking the truck must have been going up the hill from the Hutt, towards Pauatahanui, as there is an overtaking lane. The car that crossed the barrier towards the Hutt.

[swbarnett]

I reckon, imagine the damage though if it was 2 lines of 3.5mm thick yellow paint on the road?
Probably less. From what I've read it sounds like the cars that got damaged would've been further away form the offending vehicle if it hadn't been slowed by the barrier (assuming it was slowed at all).

[Ixion]

I reckon, imagine the damage though if it was 2 lines of 3.5mm thick yellow paint on the road?
Just remember - when it comes to barriers, something is better than nothing.

Well, in that case the damage might well have been zero.

The car itself didn't hit anything. It was the bits busted off it by the barrier and sent flying that hit.

So, quite likely, with no barrier, the car still wouldn't have hit anything , would have passed through, as it did, to the bank on the far side. No flying debris from hitting the barrier nothing gets damaged, except, obviously, the car that hits the bank.

"Something is better than nothing " is ONLY true if the centre crossing vehicle is going to hit something. More likely than not it misses, even if the other traffic takes no avoidance action.

Barrier enthusiats would have you believe that a vehicle crossing the centre line ALWAYS hits oncoming traffic. Which is a palpable falsehood.

Oncoming traffic in just the wrong place to be hit will only *sometimes* be there. The barrier is *always* there.

[carver]

This morning on the way to work, a car coming down the Haywards hill rode along the barrier and over it passing across two on coming lanes to rest against the upside hill.
Debris from the car and barrier hit the two lead cars that were over taking a truck going up the hill with the airborne bumper of the crashing car hitting the windscreen of the first car.
If they had been bikes.....

It was a miracle nobody was killed

surely it wouldn't have happened had the barrier been concrete...:angry2:

concrete is too expensive

[twotyred]

The wire barrier will is only designed to stop cages that hits them side on, doing less then 100km (because thats the fastest anyone actually travels in this country:whistle:), so when you have a cages that hits it head on, isn't doing a 100km, or your NOT a cage then they are actually very very fucken USELESS!!!!


This was far from a head on,the car hit on a sweeping bend although the decreasing altitude of the road at that point may have allowed it to mount the barrier.At this stage I don't know hoiw fast it was going but unlikely to be doing over 100k as the hill is very busy both directions at that time of day.

Just to clarify: I didn't witness this but drove through about 5-10 mins after it happened and saw a fellow workmate stopped there,it was from him I learnt the details as he was behind the two cars that overtook the truck.

I will try to grill him for more details tommorrow if I can.

[WelshWizard]

I reckon, imagine the damage though if it was 2 lines of 3.5mm thick yellow paint on the road?
Just remember - when it comes to barriers, something is better than nothing.

Only damage to the car that crossed, no WRB no bits fkying at the oncoming cars,

Has any one noticed these happenings with WRBs are getting more and more common, the faster they put them up the faster we are hearing of their failings, LTNZ can't keep burying their head in the sand much longer, to many countries have already acknowledged the failings and are either banning them outright or modifing them to protect all road user.

Even the States has had at least two cars go through these WRBs in the last 6 months the last time three teenage girls in a Mazda went straight under them, Result three dead Girls, who knows how they died.

[WelshWizard]

More info on the Haywards Hill crash here
http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/newsdetail1.asp?storyID=126560

http://www.topix.com/nz/haywards/2007/11/three-injured-in-head-on-collision
http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/newsdetail1.asp?storyID=127869
not sure if all three are related, but seems to be all Haywards hill

[YellowDog]

That is an amazing story and a nasty cover up.

The thought of being struck by airbourne debris is something thta has always scared me.

[Hitcher]

This morning's accident completely supports my hypothesis about long stretches of curved cheesecutter being completely useless for meeting Transit's nonsense claim about its "effectiveness" in preventing cars crossing the centre line, particularly when impacted on a convex apex. Wire, posts, car and all will cross largely unimpeded into the paths of oncoming vehicles. The Haywards "barrier" is close to 1km long. There are single spans of cheesecutter on Centennial Highway in excess of 1.5km.

Cheesecutter is largely a psychological barrier designed for the smug satisfaction of incompetent roading "engineers".

Any twats who publicly announce that SH53 is the most dangerous road in the Wellington region have absolutely no credibility whatsoever. But they're the ones whose opinions count. Go figure. Their pitiful utterances shall be unrelentlessly pursued and challenged.

Was anybody able to get photos of the aftermath of this morning's effort on SH58?

[Coyote]

I reckon, imagine the damage though if it was 2 lines of 3.5mm thick yellow paint on the road?
Just remember - when it comes to barriers, something is better than nothing.
If people continue saying that then the government will opt for the slightly cheaper and less effective option. If they're going to put a barrier up, they should put one in that works and not be wasting money on something that doesn't.

You're right, but bowing down like that is just going to let more incidences like this happen.


Cheesecutter is largely a psychological barrier designed for the smug satisfaction of incompetent roading "engineers".

It's a PR exercise and band-aid for dodgy roads, in one!

[twotyred]

Was anybody able to get photos of the aftermath of this morning's effort on SH58?

see my post earlier today: I went back to take pics at 11.00am and the scene had been scrubbed... barrier completely repaired,not a trace of anything embarassing for the official version...

[twotyred]

More info on the Haywards Hill crash here
http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/newsdetail1.asp?storyID=126560

http://www.topix.com/nz/haywards/2007/11/three-injured-in-head-on-collision
http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/newsdetail1.asp?storyID=127869
not sure if all three are related, but seems to be all Haywards hill

Nope, none of those stories are the same incident I'm relaying... ain't chinese whispers fun?

[RiderInBlack]

More info on the Haywards Hill crash here
http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/newsdetail1.asp?storyID=126560

http://www.topix.com/nz/haywards/2007/11/three-injured-in-head-on-collision
http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/newsdetail1.asp?storyID=127869
not sure if all three are related, but seems to be all Haywards hill
First one is dated: 29/10/2007 8:04:02
Second one: Nov 20, 2007
Last one is dated: 21/11/2007 13:44:03
So possibly three separate accidents, but the first one did say:
"A south-bound car has gone through the median barrier and is on its side in the northbound lanes. Police say both the north and southbound lanes are blocked, delaying traffic in both directions." So if the WBR was there then (ie. "the median barrier"), then they didn't work for that accident ether, which is more proof they are useless.

[sunhuntin]

The cheesecutter on Haywards Hill is on the Hutt side. The two cars overtaking the truck must have been going up the hill from the Hutt, towards Pauatahanui, as there is an overtaking lane. The car that crossed the barrier towards the Hutt.

thanks for that... i havent been on that road in well over a year, and then id only been on it a handful of times, so my recollections scratchy.

on the northern side of turakina, heading south, theres a row of left hand side cheesecutter. it starts at the top of the hill and ends just after a gentle corner.
not long after it was installed, several posts were taken out on the curve. now, its placement meant that any impact ends up with hitting the bank anyway, as they are right next to each other... those posts remained out of action for several months before they were repaired.

very interesting that things were cleaned up so damn fast down there. did your workmate happen to get the vehicle details or anything like that? cell ph photos?

[mowgli]

I take heart from the construction site just south of the Dowse Drive interchange on the Hutt highway. In the yard they have a stack of concrete median barriers and what looks like moulds for making more. Perhaps the polys are listening after all ... or perhaps that's just wishful thinking.

[scumdog]

Pic in todays O.D.T. of a Suzuki cruiser upside-down on the wrong side of A cheese-cutter (still with headlight on).

Ride suffered suspected broken leg and back injurie and landed about 8 metres down the road out on the road.

Apparently had got distracted 'cleaning his visor'.

[Ocean1]

I take heart from the construction site just south of the Dowse Drive interchange on the Hutt highway. In the yard they have a stack of concrete median barriers and what looks like moulds for making more. Perhaps the polys are listening after all ... or perhaps that's just wishful thinking.

Perhaps. They have been using them for temp barriers though, during construction.

[MSTRS]

First one is dated: 29/10/2007 8:04:02
Second one: Nov 20, 2007
Last one is dated: 21/11/2007 13:44:03
So possibly three separate accidents, but the first one did say:
"A south-bound car has gone through the median barrier and is on its side in the northbound lanes. Police say both the north and southbound lanes are blocked, delaying traffic in both directions." So if the WBR was there then (ie. "the median barrier"), then they didn't work for that accident ether, which is more proof they are useless.
TWO incidents...
First one is on the motorway, south of the Hill, towards Lower Hutt. I don't think there is any barrier at that point? Other than a curbed median.
Second one is well away from Haywards hill, but on the same road, further north and on the flat.

[oldrider]

Pic in todays O.D.T. of a Suzuki cruiser upside-down on the wrong side of A cheese-cutter (still with headlight on).

Ride suffered suspected broken leg and back injurie and landed about 8 metres down the road out on the road.

Apparently had got distracted 'cleaning his visor'.

G'donya SD, I was just looking to see if that report had made it to this forum.

God I hate having to ride around where those damn things are and they seem to be everywhere down here! :angry: John.

[Ocean1]

Only damage to the car that crossed, no WRB no bits fkying at the oncoming cars,

The Haywards incident?

At least one girl was taken to hospital *details withheld* caused by bits flying across the barrier.

[WelshWizard]

I take heart from the construction site just south of the Dowse Drive interchange on the Hutt highway. In the yard they have a stack of concrete median barriers and what looks like moulds for making more. Perhaps the polys are listening after all ... or perhaps that's just wishful thinking.

If you look at the legal side you will probably find that the construction company can be sued in the event of an accident while they are doing road work and WRB's would probably leave the open to having to pay Compo, Unlike LTNZ who can't be sued for negligence in useing substandard barriers.


The Haywards incident?

At least one girl was taken to hospital *details withheld* caused by bits flying across the barrier.

While at Puke today I meet a relly of one of the drivers of the cars hit by flying debri, he has signed the petition today, seems he was told the car just came through the wires and apart from bits being cut and torn off did not even seem to slow down with the wires :calm: They are a useless barrier and should be banned not even moded, they fail to do a good job at stopping a lot of the vehiclas that hit them unless they are less than 20 Degrees and are the right wheel height and weight, we should just call for them to be replaced with concrete that in the end work out cheaper and longer lasting, and apear to do their job be a Bus , Loory, Car, Ute or Motorcycle.

[twotyred]

The Haywards incident?

At least one girl was taken to hospital *details withheld* caused by bits flying across the barrier.

yes,one of the drivers(female) of the cars that were hit was taken to hospital for shock,she was quite freaked out apparently

[avgas]

If people continue saying that then the government will opt for the slightly cheaper and less effective option. If they're going to put a barrier up, they should put one in that works and not be wasting money on something that doesn't.

You're right, but bowing down like that is just going to let more incidences like this happen.

It's a PR exercise and band-aid for dodgy roads, in one!
Haha i'm guessing your from the civilised world and not been here a while. The govt is always going to screw us for the roads.
While the cheese cutters are a fucking horrible thing before them there was nothing except a pissed local in a Holden HQ who would hit and kill 5-10 of us before he found out he was on the wrong side.
The cheese cutters are not there to chop up bikes, just slow down the big dumb objects. It is unfortunate that it also chops up any small dumb objects that get too close - but if you havent seen the number of vehicles that have not made it too the otherside of the road in the Waikato then you dont understand the benefits.
Its a nice concept to say that the govt will pay for this, but the buck will never stop with them - that is why they are rich.
Assuming the govt will help us out is not just crazy, its like assuming all road users give a fuck about a motorbike on the road.

[swbarnett]

It is unfortunate that it also chops up any small dumb objects that get too close - but if you havent seen the number of vehicles that have not made it too the otherside of the road in the Waikato then you dont understand the benefits.
As someone has already pointed out, this is like a doctor killing one healthy person to harvest the organs needed to save 3 others. It is morally reprehensible.

[Trudes]

Saw this (http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominionpost/4424105a23918.html) in todays Dominion Post and thought it was interesting.....

[sunhuntin]

very interesting. i did get an email from comms saying thered been a crash on the haywards, but it didnt make mention of the barriers.

[WelshWizard]

seems the barrier did not cause the van to flip, but were responcible for the delays as it would have cost to much to take down a length to let trafic through, were as a concrete barrier could have been uplifted easily by one man with a truck, so how much was lost to the economy by the delays to those caught in the traffic jam, after all lost production cannot be recovered, probably find that the economy lost more in the snarl up caused by the accident than the cost of that section being installed with concrete barriers in the first place,

AH but wait lost production cost don't come out of Transport NZ so they don't care, so they will just keep useing the cheap short term solution and in 15 years when they have to replaced the ones who decided to use cheap WRB's won't be working there, so its some one elses problem forking out for replacements.:nono: As RatBags said to me before heading off back to Holland, "New Zeland portrays its itself to foriegn visitor as a country that does it on the cheap, only trouble with that it catches up on you, Quality always proves cheaper in the long run, shoddy goods and solutions always backfire on you"

[jcupit69]

Saw this (http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominionpost/4424105a23918.html) in todays Dominion Post and thought it was interesting.....

Saw the same article and thought of this forum....hopefully it will make them think twice before planning more bits of road with cheesecutters

[Strider]

damn... which direction were the two impacted cars heading in? what about the one that jumped the barrier.

i hate the haywards, and will never ever ride it on a bike again.

dont matter where ya ride ya bike. all cages any where can take ya out.:Oi: