NZ. Kicking out the migrants...

[Swoop]

... before they arrive?

Surely he has a conection with NZ and dosen't appear to be a drain on the taxpayer. Earning nearly $90,000 a year off of the UK pension!
Also, healthy enough to cruise the world to get here.


Link (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/02/10/wzealand110.xml).
A 101-year-old Briton may be kicked out of New Zealand after immigration bosses rejected his plea to spend his final years living with his son, his only living relative.

Eric King-Turner, 102, and his wife arrive in New Zealand in three days
Despite savings of £145,000 and a £33,000 a year pension, the widower may have to pack his bags after being told his circumstances "do not make him special." A retired research chemist whose son is a university professor, the man, who has not been named, had pleaded to stay in New Zealand after arriving in 2006.

Details of his case emerged yesterday, just three days before the arrival of 102-year-old Eric King-Turner, from Hampshire, who will be New Zealand's oldest ever immigrant.

Mr King-Turner has been allowed to move with his Kiwi-born wife, Doris, 87, and has spent the last weeks sailing from Southampton to his new home.

But although the unnamed man told the country's Residence Review Board that he, like Mr King-Turner, is hale and hearty, officials have been unmoved by his plight fearing he may be a drain on health resources.

"The centre of gravity of my immediate family is very clearly in New Zealand," wrote the man in a letter reported in a New Zealand newspaper yesterday.

Hard-nosed bureaucrats, however, said if they wanted to stay in touch his son should make the 24,000 mile round trip to visit him in Britain.

"Overall the appellant's age, his financial resources, the fact that the appellant has no family in Great Britain, do not make him special," the board said in a written decision.

"The board appreciates the submission made that the appellant's son is the only living family member the appellant has, but for many years the appellant has lived in Great Britain, apart from his son and alone.

"Presumably his son has visited him in that time and there is no evidence as to why his son could not continue to do this in the future." The decision has drawn fire from New Zealand's opposition spokesman on immigration, Dr Lockwood Smith.

"I don't think we have a very smart policy when it comes to old folk," he said. "To just say no is not good enough.

"I know there are concerns that elderly people become a drain on society but where people are of significant means and they have assets and a pension it ought to be possible." More than 10,000 Britons were granted New Zealand residency permits last year, nearly 25 per cent of all immigrants.

[Trudes]

That's a shame! Just the kind of immigrants we need, loaded and almost ready to shuffle off! Why not let him in, it's not like he's likely to be here long or try and collect the doll or a pension.:(

[Finn]

Yet we let in fat, useless Somalians with aids.

[98tls]

Yep.......just about sums this country up really,have no doubts that Helen will allow a huge influx of skinnys from Somalia within the next week or 2 to restore relations after the fat ones deeds at altitude.

[yod]

yeah cuz they must all be the same


obviously

[Conquiztador]

At 101 you would think that a one years visitors visa should be enuf for rest of his life...

[heyjoe]

If one was to use the 'why not let them in' line all the time then why don't we let everyone in who wants to. I am not up with the exact laws on immigration but when the laws were being created and were bills etc everyone had the chance to have their say through the various readings. To throw that all out the window makes a mockery of having them in the first place. Laws can also be amended as they get reviewed. If you don't like them - get them changed. As long as there is enough appropriate support then it could happen.

I am not anti-immigration of any peoples based on age, wealth, colour, culture, etc. There is a time and place for everything.

Having said that, I also agree with the one year visa idea.

[Bikernereid]

As someone who wants to live in NZ permanently I find this insane. OK I will be a skilled worker but I will not be coming over with anything like his resources.

This guy can financially support himself, has family there and will be able to pay for his own medical costs without draining the NZ economy. If anything he will be spending his £ and suporting the NZ economy.

So maybe I am a bit slow but I do not see where the problem is going to be?

[Sanx]

As someone who wants to live in NZ permanently I find this insane. OK I will be a skilled worker but I will not be coming over with anything like his resources.

This guy can financially support himself, has family there and will be able to pay for his own medical costs without draining the NZ economy. If anything he will be spending his £ and suporting the NZ economy.

So maybe I am a bit slow but I do not see where the problem is going to be?

The problem, my dear, is that he's the wrong sort of person.

He has a healthy income and isn't going to go straight on the dole and any other benefit he can find.
He's not going to go round stealing stuff, tagging any available flat surface, or kidnapping his countrymen.
He can speak English fluently.
He's not going to immediately claim special privilege by virtue of his culture.
He's unlikely to vote Labour.

[Bikernereid]

Now you have hit the nail on the head- voting Labour. I am buggered then!!


The problem, my dear, is that he's the wrong sort of person.

He has a healthy income and isn't going to go straight on the dole and any other benefit he can find.
He's not going to go round stealing stuff, tagging any available flat surface, or kidnapping his countrymen.
He can speak English fluently.
He's not going to immediately claim special privilege by virtue of his culture.
He's unlikely to vote Labour.

[Keith the Pom]

This case was recently highlighted on one of our local southern-UK TV news bulletins, simply because of the unusual circumstances, i.e. his age.

Look at the facts: (a) His missus - NoK - is a born-and-bred Kiwi, thus she has the right to 'come home'; (b) his son is a university professor, who's therefore presumably doing good work for the NZ community; AND (c) the old boy is bloody loaded to the gunnels with money .. and he's lucid & healthy - looked it too on the telly the other night.

At the end of the day just what does your government want, eh? He and his have already, and still want to bring shitloads of good stuff to your country .. wisdom, BIG tax revenues, etceteras.

I am bemused?! My son is working darn hard right now teaching mathematics to your kids (+ he's Head of Department) in a secondary school up in Northland. I think I must now advise him to come back home, where he's bound to be a bit more appreciated. That would be fair. This will also leave more space for a few more Asian immigrants into your fine country (at least it was once upon a time) .. :angry2:

Rant Over!

[I'm Sorry]

[Bikernereid]

I agree with a lot of what you are saying but at the end of the day you can;t blame the asians or any other ethnic minority ifor wanting a better life. It is the NZ government that is to blame. NZ has the same problem as Canada and believe me the ethnic Canadians are pissed too about the Indian/Pakistani immigrant problem.

It does make me laugh that the immigration department make us jump through hoops to get in and then seem to let so much riff raff in with no problems. Maybe it is something to do with us being ex Colonial dictators!!


This case was recently highlighted on one of our local southern-UK TV news bulletins, simply because of the unusual circumstances, i.e. his age.

Look at the facts: (a) His missus - NoK - is a born-and-bred Kiwi, thus she has the right to 'come home'; (b) his son is a university professor, who's therefore presumably doing good work for the NZ community; AND (c) the old boy is bloody loaded to the gunnels with money .. and he's lucid & healthy - looked it too on the telly the other night.

At the end of the day just what does your government want, eh? He and his have already, and still want to bring shitloads of good stuff to your country .. wisdom, BIG tax revenues, etceteras.

I am bemused?! My son is working darn hard right now teaching mathematics to your kids (+ he's Head of Department) in a secondary school up in Northland. I think I must now advise him to come back home, where he's bound to be a bit more appreciated. That would be fair. This will also leave more space for a few more Asian immigrants into your fine country (at least it was once upon a time) .. :angry2:

Rant Over!

[I'm Sorry]

[PrincessBandit]

I am bemused?! ...

I'd say a good percentage of us are too. Our country is largely run by idiots who wouldn't know what commonsense and the ability to use discretion in appropriate ways are, even if it hit them between the eyes on the end of a sledgehammer.

[ynot slow]

We are a stepping stone for other countries i.e aussie,come to NZ get citizenship asap,then leave and work in oz.

[Bikernereid]

I have spent time in both NZ and Oz and NZ is the bomb. I would never want to leave NZ to go over the water (if they let me in NZ that is)!!!!!


We are a stepping stone for other countries i.e aussie,come to NZ get citizenship asap,then leave and work in oz.

[ManDownUnder]

Yet we let in fat, useless Somalians with aids.

+1...............

[Conquiztador]

It all comes down to the county's immigration policies. A little like the policies of KB. You might not like them or approve of them, but as long as they are there, that's what we follow. In both cases you have the right and opportunity to change them. There is a set process to do so. Follow that and if what you suggest is reasonable enough, then it might become the new policy. But until then, what is there stays.

NZ, as a western country, has agreed to take in so many refugees a year. This is something we do "to solve the problems of the world".

Many years ago when I lived in Finland and there was all these Vieatnam boat refugees floating around, all the western countries were falling over each other to take them in and show how caring they were. Sweden took in around 10,000 - 20,000 a year with all that it brought with it in problems and issues. Finland (that is neighbour to Sweden) took in 3.

A few years later Sweden was having huge problems trying to solve all the issues, but the world had already moved on to something else (if I remember right Bob Geldof was the one who was now making everyone feel guilty) and Sweden was left to alone solve the issues (even today so many years later many of those issues are not solved).

Finland got heaps of grief for only taking in 3 of them. But a year later all had forgotten about it and Finland was working on solving it's own issues, not haven taken on someone elses.

Perhaps it would be worth for NZ to take a more tough approach and care about the ones who are here, put the backing in to them instead of bringing more problems here?

And I can honestly not see how a 101 year old man could be a problem. I would expect him to have a top notch insurance policy even.

Rant over, soap box back in its corner.

[dickytoo]

This will also leave more space for a few more Asian immigrants into your fine country (at least it was once upon a time) .. :angry2:

Rant Over!

[I'm Sorry]

You're only upset because us asians kicked your pommy butt out of Hong Kong (and many other places).

[GIXser]

The problem, my dear, is that he's the wrong sort of person.

He has a healthy income and isn't going to go straight on the dole and any other benefit he can find.
He's not going to go round stealing stuff, tagging any available flat surface, or kidnapping his countrymen.
He can speak English fluently.
He's not going to immediately claim special privilege by virtue of his culture.
He's unlikely to vote Labour.

We also forget the main common denominator.........some call it racial profiling some call it statistics !!!

[Dave Lobster]

Are samoans refugees then?

[Sanx]

You're only upset because us asians kicked your pommy butt out of Hong Kong (and many other places).

Name one place where 'you asians' kicked the poms out of anywhere. Hong Kong was handed back to the Chinese as the territory had only been leased ... hardly being kicked out, was it.

And if I remember rightly, at time tens of thousands of Hong Kong Chinese were desperately trying to get the British courts to upgrade their Hong Kong passports to full British ones so they wouldn't haveto live under Chinese rule. Or is that something else you've conveniently forgotten, huh?

[98tls]

Everyone knows the old saying "you dont know what you have got until its gone" sad how we are letting it go,no doubt somebody will remember it when to late.Racist/Nazi and anything else you care to call me the answer is no,i just want someone to shut the gate before we all drown.:niceone:

[Magua]

Name one place where 'you asians' kicked the poms out of anywhere.

Singapore. :cool:

[Keith the Pom]

Don't take offence dickytoo, cuz I didn't mean any. Fact is, the Brits stole Hong Kong from China just so that we could flog opium around that region a bit easier! This was the [literally] 'bloody' origin of Hong Kong's 155 years as a British colony. I guess it was only right to peacefully hand HK back when the formal lease expired.

Actually, I have HUGE mixed feelings about this whole confusing issue. Globalisation? I guess it's inevitable - and just maybe no bad thing too if you think it all through.

I'm pure 100% British right .. whatever that means - or am I?? These islands have been invaded so many times that I reckon at the end-of-the day we're really a mixed race of thoroughbred mongrels! Go back in history to the invading conquests of: the Saxons (Germans), Vikings (Scandinavians), Romans (Iti's), Normans (French); and in passive modern times the list goes on .. Afro-Caribbeans, Indians, Pakistanis .. and right now hundreds of 000s from Eastern Europe?

The USA? - I won't start on this one! .. just incredible immigration figures. Well, after all, North America's entire population is 100% comprised of immigrants isn't it? - Notwithstanding what remains of the genocide-slaughtered Native American Indians. The same could be said of Australia and NZ - Aboriginal and Maori natives accepted.

I'm not saying this just to sound all PC .. AND if I'm really honest, I must admit that some of the nicest people, with the highest work ethic I know, are from Asia. Example: last September ['07] I was desperately looking for somewhere to store my UK-registered motorcycle in San Francisco for 6 months. The first person to volunteer me a space in his warm & dry back-yard barn was a hard working US sub-continental Asian immigrant - a bloody top bloke. I'm now in his debt.

But come-on! To exclude a Kiwi's long-standing [v rich] husband - whose son-and-heir is a university professor in NZ - on the grounds of his age? Is this right? At 102, just how much time has the old boy got left to go, in any case?

In summary, I'm not sure if I like where Helen Clark & Co is taking New Zealand nowadays. I just don't understand her logic .. :wacko:??
--------------------------

Incidentally - I really would always choose a nice plate of curry & rice over fish 'n' chips .. any day .. :2thumbsup

[Bikernereid]

Try living in the UK since the expansion of the EU. It is getting to the point now where Polish garages are putting up signs saying NO ENGLISH and getting away with it. If it was the other way round they would be getting the owner done for discrimination faster that you can say Warsaw. Boston (UK) is now 25% Polish and do you have any idea what they are doing to the construction industry salaries? The work for less and drive down the salaries for the Brits who have mortgages and don't live 20 to a house!

I don't blame them for coming over here when they are legally entitled to but for the love of God the UK can't sustain such immigration levels.

Hey at least NZ has some immigration control think yourself lucky you are not living in the welfare state UK where all the Eastern Europeans want to live!!


Everyone knows the old saying "you dont know what you have got until its gone" sad how we are letting it go,no doubt somebody will remember it when to late.Racist/Nazi and anything else you care to call me the answer is no,i just want someone to shut the gate before we all drown.:niceone:

[dickytoo]

Name one place where 'you asians' kicked the poms out of anywhere. Hong Kong was handed back to the Chinese as the territory had only been leased ... hardly being kicked out, was it.

And if I remember rightly, at time tens of thousands of Hong Kong Chinese were desperately trying to get the British courts to upgrade their Hong Kong passports to full British ones so they wouldn't haveto live under Chinese rule. Or is that something else you've conveniently forgotten, huh?

India amongst others.

Also have a read of Keith the Pom's response to mine. You take things too seriously.

[Keith the Pom]

Also have a read of Keith the Pom's response to mine. You take things too seriously.

Yeah Right - let's talk Islam ..:corn:

[Bikernereid]

Believe me you really don't want to go there.


Yeah Right - let's talk Islam ..:corn:

[dickytoo]

Yeah Right - let's talk Islam ..:corn:


my comment wasn't directed at you but at sanx's response to my earlier comment. in fact, if you looked at your rep, you will see that i gave you a greenie for what i construed as a positive response.

[Bikernereid]

I know it was directed at Sanx. It is just a subject that is close to both mine and Sanx's heart although for different reasons and you could be here for ever if we get started!!:crazy::eek5:

International Hug an Arab day- Friday, February 15, 2008 at 12:00am End Time: Saturday, February 16, 2008 at 12:00am

Thanks for rep but as I haven't been on long enough to be able to know who reps I didn't know it was you.


my comment wasn't directed at you but at sanx's response to my earlier comment. in fact, if you looked at your rep, you will see that i gave you a greenie for what i construed as a positive response.

[Keith the Pom]

I'm not at all familiar with the greenie [and/or red] thingies - I'll need to check out what these are all about. But .. er .. thanks anyway .. I guess?!

Although I've been on this board for a while now, I must admit that I don't visit KB that often. Perhaps I shall from now on, as there's clearly some lively debates going on here.

I guess Islam is out of the question then, eh? .. ;)

[Grahameeboy]

Sounds like an odd decision since the Son can sponsor his Father.

My folks got a residence visa simply on the back of me as a NZ Citizen and they are late 60's / 70's so there must be more to this story.

[dickytoo]

I'm not at all familiar with the greenie [and/or red] thingies - I'll need to check out what these are all about. But .. er .. thanks anyway .. I guess?!

Although I've been on this board for a while now, I must admit that I don't visit KB that often. Perhaps I shall from now on, as there's clearly some lively debates going on here.

I guess Islam is out of the question then, eh? .. ;)

green is good, red is bad (usually)

that's another can of worms we definitely don't want to get into!

[dickytoo]

Sounds like an odd decision since the Son can sponsor his Father.

My folks got a residence visa simply on the back of me as a NZ Citizen and they are late 60's / 70's so there must be more to this story.

i also managed to get my parents over. they're in their 70's as well. most of the family is here now anyway. it took nearly two years to process their paperwork though. they love it here.

[Finn]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with "good" immigrants. We need lots of them. Hell, if it wasn't for the Asians alone, we'd probably all be living in grass huts by now.

[dickytoo]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with "good" immigrants. We need lots of them. Hell, if it wasn't for the Asians alone, we'd probably all be living in grass huts by now.

aw shucks, we loves you too finn!

[Bikernereid]

apart from them you are all bloody immigrants!! :shit: Love each other man. :love::mellow:


aw shucks, we loves you too finn!

[Finn]

apart from them you are all bloody immigrants!!

So are they.

[Bikernereid]

You're all bloody screwed then!!


So are they.

[Bikernereid]

Islam is never out of the question just be prepared for some extremly strong opinions and I include my own in there.

As long as people respect each others opinion it shouldn't be a problem but sometimes people get rather heated and can be very derogatory.


I'm not at all familiar with the greenie [and/or red] thingies - I'll need to check out what these are all about. But .. er .. thanks anyway .. I guess?!

Although I've been on this board for a while now, I must admit that I don't visit KB that often. Perhaps I shall from now on, as there's clearly some lively debates going on here.

I guess Islam is out of the question then, eh? .. ;)

[martybabe]

Islam is never out of the question just be prepared for some extremely strong opinions and I include my own in there.

As long as people respect each others opinion it shouldn't be a problem but sometimes people get rather heated and can be very derogatory.


As a pom enjoying the hospitality of kiwi land I wanna tell you u.k. ites that the right to free speech is alive and well in NZ,comparitivly.

You can actually say what you think,witness this thread,without fear of being beaten up burned at the stake or arrested by the thought police.

Of course if you say something controversial enough some one will slap you upside your head but you are at least allowed to express an opinion on touchy subjects like immigration without automatically being labeled a racist bigot and I for one applaud the Kiwis for that. :clap:

[Swoop]

Immigration u-turn grants centenarian's wish (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10492455)
1:05PM Thursday February 14, 2008
By Cullen Smith

One centenarian arrives, another gets kicked out

A 101-year-old widower will live out his twilight years with his only living relative in New Zealand after immigration officials reversed a decision to send him back to England.

The widower, a retired research chemist who has been living with his English-born New Zealand-resident son since 2006, was refused residency on a technicality - his son hadn't lived here for the required minimum 184 days in each of the three years before his application was made.

In his application for residency, the centenarian told immigration officials he no longer wished to live alone in Britain and his 63-year-old son thought the sensible and responsible option was for him to come to live with him and his wife.

The 101-year-old arrived on a visitor's permit in July 2006. It expired in April 2007, but he didn't renew it because he believed he wasn't required to while his residence application was being determined.

In his appeal to the independent Residence Review Board (RRB), the man said he had "adequate financial resources" to support himself and met Immigration New Zealand (INZ) health requirements.

Despite the man's savings of some $363,000 and receiving an annual pension of almost $83,000, the RRB confirmed INZ's decision to decline the man's application saying there were no special circumstances.

"Overall, the appellant's age, his financial resources, the fact that his son lives in New Zealand and the fact the appellant has no family in Great Britain do not make him special," the RRB said.

"There is no evidence that the appellant could not have continued to live in Great Britain alone and without his son, as he had done for many years."

But immigration officials softened their hardline stance after intervention from Immigration Minister Clayton Cosgrove, who asked them to take another look at the man's case.

An INZ spokeswoman confirmed to NZPA today the man would be allowed to stay.

The spokeswoman told NZPA where cases do not meet policy requirements, there was provision for the individual merits of the case to be looked at, "and in this case residency was granted".

"It is important to note that no two cases are exactly the same and where discretion is used it is based on the specific circumstances of that case," she said.

New Zealand welcomed another centenarian immigrant yesterday when 102-year-old Briton Eric King-Turner arrived in Wellington aboard the Saga Rose cruise ship.

Mr King-Turner, New Zealand's oldest immigrant, moved halfway across the world with his New Zealand-born wife of more than 12 years, Doris, 89. They are believed to be settling in Nelson, where Mrs King-Turner is understood to own a house.

[Animal]

Yet we let in fat, useless Somalians with aids.

You've seen a fat Somalian? All the bloody Somalians I've seen look like shit-coated toothpicks! And how many more fuckin' taxi drivers does NZ really need?

[Bikernereid]

I am not doubting you but some of my Kiwi friends have a very different opinion about freedom of speech in NZ.


As a pom enjoying the hospitality of kiwi land I wanna tell you u.k. ites that the right to free speech is alive and well in NZ,comparitivly.

You can actually say what you think,witness this thread,without fear of being beaten up burned at the stake or arrested by the thought police.

Of course if you say something controversial enough some one will slap you upside your head but you are at least allowed to express an opinion on touchy subjects like immigration without automatically being labeled a racist bigot and I for one applaud the Kiwis for that. :clap:

[martybabe]

I am not doubting you but some of my Kiwi friends have a very different opinion about freedom of speech in NZ.



Yip, I did say comparatively, In my experience ,if you ask a kiwi what they think about a delicate/controversial subject they seem far less afraid to tell you exactly what they think.Whereas your average working class Brit will be far more guarded in his/her opinions on,for example,imigration, until confident their not in the company of the politically correct gestapoesque lynch mob.

All I'm saying is the kiwis I've met generally tell it how they see it.not so different with the Brits till you get to subjects like Islam.It's like walking on broken glass with sunburnt feet.

[Finn]

You've seen a fat Somalian? All the bloody Somalians I've seen look like shit-coated toothpicks! And how many more fuckin' taxi drivers does NZ really need?

Well they're not fat when they arrive but the welfare system soon takes care of that. For example, the fat cow that tried to jack that plane last week.

[scracha]

We are a stepping stone for other countries i.e aussie,come to NZ get citizenship asap,then leave and work in oz.

Fuck yeah. Just another couple of years of dealing with thuck kiwi's for moi. Would have been away sooner but that barsteward Don Brash and his crew made it 5 years just before I arrived back.

[scracha]

You can actually say what you think,witness this thread,without fear of being beaten up burned at the stake or arrested by the thought police.

Unless it involves taking the pish out of Kiwi's or rugby that is.

[Animal]

Well they're not fat when they arrive but the welfare system soon takes care of that. For example, the fat cow that tried to jack that plane last week.

Yeah, she did look uncharacteristically well-fed. Oh well, at least Helen's mob are making sure she doesn't go hungry - thanks to a good proportion of my tax contribution. And yours.

[scracha]

Yeah, she did look uncharacteristically well-fed. Oh well, at least Helen's mob are making sure she doesn't go hungry - thanks to a good proportion of my tax contribution. And yours.
Was she trying to hi-jack the plane or just eat the pilots?

[Animal]

Was she trying to hi-jack the plane or just eat the pilots?

ROFLMAO! Good call. She wouldn't be there for the in-flight meals, that's for bloody sure!:2thumbsup

[Swoop]

Was she trying to hi-jack the plane or just eat the pilots?
Good point!
We have heard that she had a knife, BUT did she ALSO have a fork???

[Animal]

Good point!
We have heard that she had a knife, BUT did she ALSO have a fork???

She's from Somalia, so cutlery would probably be an unfamiliar concept. The knife might've been to peel the pilots and passengers. Who'd know!

[Bikernereid]

That is really wierd as I see Kiwis far more cONSERVATIVE than I do the Brits. I find that when talking the majority of New Zealanders I am very careful of how I phrase things as you guys are far more sensitve than us Pommies. My friends who have lived in the UK and then gone home to NZ said the same thing they found it a litte hard to adjust to the cONSERVATIVE nature of Kiwis in general.


Yip, I did say comparatively, In my experience ,if you ask a kiwi what they think about a delicate/controversial subject they seem far less afraid to tell you exactly what they think.Whereas your average working class Brit will be far more guarded in his/her opinions on,for example,imigration, until confident their not in the company of the politically correct gestapoesque lynch mob.

All I'm saying is the kiwis I've met generally tell it how they see it.not so different with the Brits till you get to subjects like Islam.It's like walking on broken glass with sunburnt feet.