Learner speed restriction change

[Chad]

Does anyone know anything about a proposed change to the speed restriction for learner bikers from 70km/h to 90km/h? Heard about it briefly from the guy who ran my skills test, so asuming he knows a bit of what hes talking about, but just wondering if anyone knows when it may go through or anything like that?

[EJK]

Hmmm... Then Restricted should change from 250cc to 400cc too ;)

[babyblade250rr]

Hmmm... Then Restricted should change from 250cc to 400cc too ;)

heya e.j all ready for your ride tomorrow??

[BiK3RChiK]

I haven't heard and I just did my BHS Cert. on the weekend. It would be good though. Travelling at 70km/hr on the open road is bizzare! Even Dangerous! I hope your instructor is right.

[HTFU]

I haven't heard and I just did my BHS Cert. on the weekend. It would be good though. Travelling at 70km/hr on the open road is bizzare! Even Dangerous! I hope your instructor is right.

I think LTNZ never intended the 70km/hr restriction to be meant for open road riding. Typical Govt Dept, didn't really think how many Kiwis would travel out of the cities on their bikes.

Good that a rethink may be on the cards, but 90km is still dangerous on a bike with cars coming up from behind and trying to pass.

[xwhatsit]

What's the point of 90kph? Why not just scrap it altogether?

The whole thing is silly. 70kph (or anything much less than the flow of traffic) is bloody dangerous -- and I don't know of many accidents where somebody has been doing 100kph on a straight bit of motorway and arsed off. I know when I first got my leaner's permit, doing 100kph on the motorway was about the least scary thing. Roundabouts, idiots pulling out from intersections and 90-degree corners onto side roads were far more pressing concerns.

I've said it before, anyway. But 90kph seems ridiculous. What's so different about 90kph compared to 100kph?

[jcupit69]

Its even more stuoid when on your learners you can go get on a bike that'll do 200kmh!!!

Iv been pulled up doing over the 80kmh or what eva it is on ur restricted, cop didnt even say anything?!?!

IMHO its a total joke and needs to be scrapped all together, learners being able to do 100kmh is much safer than them trying to sit at 70kmh, and if there gonna speed they'll do it anyway so its the biggest bit of bullshit legislation made by someone whos obviously been sat in an office far to long :spanking:

[BiK3RChiK]

What about those who are on their learners who don't live in the city! I am crapping myself thinking about going from Edgecumbe to Whakatane at 70km/hr!! Damn fool who thought that one up needs to give it a go! We have the most arrogant and ignorant cage drivers in this country. Tailgaters and non-indicators being among the worst. You'd think that with all the BS getting a licence it would actually improve the skills of drivers and they'd be a bit more courteous!:no:

[CookMySock]

IMHO its a total joke and needs to be scrapped all together, learners being able to do 100kmh is much safer than them trying to sit at 70kmhI do not think so.

Absolute beginners should not be pushing bikes into corners at 100km/hr until they are at least partially versed and practiced and experienced in the method required to steer the bike around said corner, or they are going to put it in the gravel or into the front of an oncoming car when they panic and pull the bike upright.

hrm, maybe if newbs can be given training on the basic countersteer, and if they can adjust their line mid-corner without use of the throttle or brakes, *then* they might be able to use 100km/hr, but not before in my opinion.

So they have to go slow for 6months - get over it, and stay alive. :bash:


DB

[snot]

I do not think so.

Absolute beginners should not be pushing bikes into corners at 100km/hr until they are at least partially versed and practiced and experienced in the method required to steer the bike around said corner, or they are going to put it in the gravel or into the front of an oncoming car when they panic and pull the bike upright.

hrm, maybe if newbs can be given training on the basic countersteer, and if they can adjust their line mid-corner without use of the throttle or brakes, *then* they might be able to use 100km/hr, but not before in my opinion.

So they have to go slow for 6months - get over it, and stay alive. :bash:


DB

+1
Hey I've got an idea, how about you all stop bitching about it and get off your asses and do something.

[xwhatsit]

I do not think so.

Absolute beginners should not be pushing bikes into corners at 100km/hr until they are at least partially versed and practiced and experienced in the method required to steer the bike around said corner, or they are going to put it in the gravel or into the front of an oncoming car when they panic and pull the bike upright.

hrm, maybe if newbs can be given training on the basic countersteer, and if they can adjust their line mid-corner without use of the throttle or brakes, *then* they might be able to use 100km/hr, but not before in my opinion.

So they have to go slow for 6months - get over it, and stay alive. :bash:


DB

You're not getting it. Most learners shit themselves around corners, so they take it slow anyway in twistie bits. What the issue is, is when most people get their learners they use their bike to commute, often which requires using the motorway. Doing 70kph on an Auckland motorway when the accepted speed is often 110kph (trucks included) is feckin' dangerous. Perhaps the tractors only do 70kph in Bumfuck Idaho/Edgecumbe anyway.

Open road cornering doesn't enter into it. Doing 70kph into a 45kph corner is just as bad as doing 100kph into a 60kph corner when you're a newb. You look at most newbs (certainly me) and they are terrified of leaning the bike -- so they slow right down and crawl around corners. What newbs do you know that get a bike and instantly go and seek out the Coro loop?

[jcupit69]

You're not getting it. Most learners shit themselves around corners, so they take it slow anyway in twistie bits. What the issue is, is when most people get their learners they use their bike to commute, often which requires using the motorway. Doing 70kph on an Auckland motorway when the accepted speed is often 110kph (trucks included) is feckin' dangerous. Perhaps the tractors only do 70kph in Bumfuck Idaho/Edgecumbe anyway.

Open road cornering doesn't enter into it. Doing 70kph into a 45kph corner is just as bad as doing 100kph into a 60kph corner when you're a newb. You look at most newbs (certainly me) and they are terrified of leaning the bike -- so they slow right down and crawl around corners. What newbs do you know that get a bike and instantly go and seek out the Coro loop?

Exactly, learner riders arent gonna be trying to take the twistys at 100kph, when there on the motorway its not safe sitting at 70 while everyone around you is doing 100kph. +1 for you

[Ragingrob]

You're not getting it. Most learners shit themselves around corners, so they take it slow anyway in twistie bits. What the issue is, is when most people get their learners they use their bike to commute, often which requires using the motorway. Doing 70kph on an Auckland motorway when the accepted speed is often 110kph (trucks included) is feckin' dangerous. Perhaps the tractors only do 70kph in Bumfuck Idaho/Edgecumbe anyway.

Open road cornering doesn't enter into it. Doing 70kph into a 45kph corner is just as bad as doing 100kph into a 60kph corner when you're a newb. You look at most newbs (certainly me) and they are terrified of leaning the bike -- so they slow right down and crawl around corners. What newbs do you know that get a bike and instantly go and seek out the Coro loop?

Damn straight, more likely that a car L plate or restricted will hit us anyway when they're going 100 than if we're allowed to. 100 will be the speed limit, not the target, just like the signs!

[Chad]

I totally agree with 70 being crap, and prob far more dangerous. I think 90 would at least be more acceptable. I don't know what its like elsewhere, but 90 seems to be a pretty accepted speed in and around Wellington now, wether its due to price of petrol or just the slow retardation of road users that seems to be slowly happening.

And totally agree with the newbie thing. Sure, on the day I sat my skills test, I was pushing 120 on the straights on the way home, simply for the pure pleasure of speed and adrenaline, even though stupid. But my first time over the rimutakas a week or so later I was like a grandma round most of those corners

[CookMySock]

You're not getting it. Most learners shit themselves around corners, so they take it slow anyway in twistie bits.fairy nuff.

edit: aww why neg rep for me for not understanding something ? :weep:

DB

[jcupit69]

fairy nuff.

edit: aww why neg rep for me for not understanding something ? :weep:

DB

Out of rep for now but i'll send you some pos rep for amending yourself :soon:

[xwhatsit]

fairy nuff.

edit: aww why neg rep for me for not understanding something ? :weep:

DB

I didn't -- it seems a fair enough mistake to make when the first bike you get back on after a while is a GT650R. If we were riding those around on learner permits a 70kph restriction might make sense there :laugh:, but your average beginner's GN250/Scorpio doesn't exactly zoom off to 100kph in the blink of an eye.

[Tank]

What about those who are on their learners who don't live in the city! I am crapping myself thinking about going from Edgecumbe to Whakatane at 70km/hr!! Damn fool who thought that one up needs to give it a go! We have the most arrogant and ignorant cage drivers in this country. Tailgaters and non-indicators being among the worst. You'd think that with all the BS getting a licence it would actually improve the skills of drivers and they'd be a bit more courteous!:no:

BikerChick - If you are doing a lot of open road riding you can ask for dispensation (I did)

This allowed me to have a larger bike (up to 800) on my learners and for me to sit my full immediately thus getting over the 70km limit.

The last part was actually proposed by LTNZ as she said they don't want people who do loads of open road riding stuck in traffic doing 70km.

So I went from my learners to a large bike and a full licence very quickly and never actually had a restricted.

[BiK3RChiK]

BikerChick - If you are doing a lot of open road riding you can ask for dispensation (I did)

This allowed me to have a larger bike (up to 800) on my learners and for me to sit my full immediately thus getting over the 70km limit.

The last part was actually proposed by LTNZ as she said they don't want people who do loads of open road riding stuck in traffic doing 70km.

So I went from my learners to a large bike and a full licence very quickly and never actually had a restricted.

Wow! Thanks for that Tank. I'll follow that one up. I'd give you another click but it says "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Tank again". Edgecumbe is small and we are always going into Whakatane. So far, I've always chickened out on the bike and gone in cage.

Cheers,
Mavis

[BiK3RChiK]

BikerChick - If you are doing a lot of open road riding you can ask for dispensation (I did)



Who did you talk to? What is the procedure? etc... etc....


Many thanks!

M

[NOMIS]

Hmmm... Then Restricted should change from 250cc to 400cc too ;)

Should be 600cc then i can get a R6!!!!:clap:

[Tank]

Who did you talk to? What is the procedure? etc... etc....


Many thanks!

M

Everything you wanted to know is here:

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=64340

[HTFU]

Everything you wanted to know is here:

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=64340

quite the trend-setter there Mr Tank. Good skills

[BiK3RChiK]

Everything you wanted to know is here:

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=64340

Cheers man. You Rock!!

M

[jcupit69]

Everything you wanted to know is here:

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=64340

:clap::clap::clap: Nice!!!!

[Skyryder]

I've always advocated that cc restrictions should be abolished. You can kill yourself just as easily on a 250 as 1000. 'Dont' apply to cars why bikes?


Skyryder

[xwhatsit]

I kind of see what you're saying, Skyryder -- I can run wide on a corner and smack into a truck just as easily on my 250 as you can on a Busa, but unexpected difficulties (such as loss of rear-wheel traction when opening the throttle in a corner, and arriving at corners double the speed limit) are slightly more likely to occur on a 1000cc bike.

[Chad]

I've always advocated that cc restrictions should be abolished. You can kill yourself just as easily on a 250 as 1000. 'Dont' apply to cars why bikes?


Skyryder

Hmm, i'm not so sure about abolishing the cc restrictions. Your av newbie whos never ridden a bike before and jumps straight on a 1000 is prob far more likely to either drop it, give it too much gas and skitch all over the place, or accidentally pull great big wheelies and end up with the bike on top of them.

But back to the original question, I guess that means no one knows anything?

[CookMySock]

[snip] 'Dont' apply to cars why bikes? coz the steering wheel on cars doesn't work back-to-front.

DB

[Sanx]

I've always advocated that cc restrictions should be abolished. You can kill yourself just as easily on a 250 as 1000. 'Dont' apply to cars why bikes?


Skyryder

The cc restrictions are a little daft, but I see the purpose in having some form of restriction on what can be ridden on a learner's licence. I'd personally favour the Australian way where models of bikes are approved for learner use on an individual basis; it gets over the patent illogicality of the NZ system where an Aprilia RS250 is learner legal, but a Suzuki DM-Z350 ain't. Some European countries operate a power limit - 39 bhp from memory in the UK - and you're allowed to ride any bike which doesn't put out more than that. And that includes bikes that have been professional restricted - there are learners riding around of Busas that only put out the required 39bhp.

The point in having some restriction is that it's a hell of a lot easier for someone to obtain (legally) a bike capable of warp speed than it is to obtain a car with similar performance. Twenty grand will buy you a brand new superbike capable of well over 300kph and 0-100 in less than three seconds. Try finding a car that'll do even close to that for the same money. You can't.

It is an undisputable fact that an accident on a bike is a hell of a lot more dangerous to the rider that the same accident would be for the driver of a car. It is also an undisputable fact that you are more likely to have an accident as a bike rider than you are as a car driver. I personally think there should be some restriction on the type of cars a learner can drive - based upon power to weight ratio, I think woulkd be best - but you can see why the restriction is in place for bikes.

However, the 70kph limit is plain illogical and dangerous with it.

[007XX]

Yep, totally with Sanx on this one...

Once again though, in an ideal world, people would ride according to their ability and not their ego...then restricitions placed by the gummint or whoever would be irrelevant.

*I think I can hear Hitcher in the background, calling me Pollyana again*...:laugh:

[faredce]

as had been said moving slower than the flow of traffic will cause accidents ie people wanting to pass blah blah blah. if u can get a 250cc bike that is capable of correct road speeds shuldnt we be able to do so??

this was a law thought up by someone in a suit who has never ridin but knows of the "dangers" of motorbikes and allll of the horror stories. tossa

[BiK3RChiK]

So maybe we need to put a poll up or petition the powers that be that the law on this one needs to be changed, because as I read, no-one here knows for sure if the law is going to be changed and I think it needs to be. 70km/hr on the open road is too slow for bikes. I think it needs to be more like 90km/hr. JMHO

M

[Fatjim]

I think that learners should be off the open road. Limit them to roads that are 70kph and less.

[Horse]

I think that learners should be off the open road. Limit them to roads that are 70kph and less.

Honestly, if that was the rule, I wouldn't have bothered buying a bike. So much for all this learning I'm supposed to be doing.

I don't think I'd be alone either.

Edit: also, living in Palmerston North, I wouldn't learn anything about going around a corner that wasn't a right angle intersection.

[Chad]

I think that learners should be off the open road. Limit them to roads that are 70kph and less.

Have to say I don't really agree with this either, but then everyone has their own opinion. I rode from Welly to Auckland and back on my learners without a single mishap or close call. Have more near misses in slower zones just going 20 min to and from work...

Edit: recently heard from someone in a position to comment officialy, that the 70km limit is currently going through the procedure of being scrapped.

[Horse]

Edit: recently heard from someone in a position to comment officialy, that the 70km limit is currently going through the procedure of being scrapped.

Yep, among other things. See much discussion here. (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=70332)

[raftn]

The LTNz website is reulary updated with the new rules check on there for any changes.

[Damantis]

I totally agree with 70 being crap, and prob far more dangerous. I think 90 would at least be more acceptable. I don't know what its like elsewhere, but 90 seems to be a pretty accepted speed in and around Wellington now, wether its due to price of petrol or just the slow retardation of road users that seems to be slowly happening.

And totally agree with the newbie thing. Sure, on the day I sat my skills test, I was pushing 120 on the straights on the way home, simply for the pure pleasure of speed and adrenaline, even though stupid. But my first time over the rimutakas a week or so later I was like a grandma round most of those corners

I Bought my bike on Aucklands north shore, then rode it over the harbour bridge and down the motorway to Manurewa and was picking chocolate buttons outta my undies when I got home. Alot of my riding has been on the open road since getting a license and my first bike. Its alot safer moving with the flow of the traffic and taking the corners at a speed that you are comfortable with. I took my L-plate off about 2 weeks later when I was confident I wasn't gonna stall or perform any other kind of annoyance that a learner plate is there to fore-warn other motorists about. . . It certainly upped my cool factor too! :woohoo:
Fact is, you are very unlikely to be pulled over unless you are speeding or doing something to attract the cops attention. 70 kph on the open road is ridiculous unless you are towing a wobbly caravan. Try riding down the waikato expressway at 70ks and some cage driver will be dialling *555 to get you pulled over for holding up traffic!