I'd like you to resign!!!

[YellowDog]

"Things aren't working out and I'd like you to resign. We can do this the easy way, or the hard way via HR. Which would you prefer? I'd prefer it if you left now!"

This is what I was told this afternoon after returning from lunch. No discussion, no explanation.

I was a bit shocked and asked if I could postpone my decision until tomorrow. He said he was too busy tomorrow. I told him that I am having knee surgery at the end of Feb and don't expect to be fully mobile (to look for work) until the end of March at the earliest. He then agreed to give me 24 hours to consider what I should do.

I had no idea where this came from. It was a real bolt out of the blue. Having now thought about it I have a new boss whom I have told how the land lies and she has obviously told my old boss what I said. I suspect that she has confronted him with this and he is kicking me out was this knee jerk reaction.

The surprising part is that my new boss will not actually be my boss until April 1, so my old boss can do as he pleases, which he has.

Frankly, I would like to leave that place. The only reason I was staying was that the company had been taken over and I would be getting a new role and a new boss. Now I have knee surgery at the end of the month, this changes my predicament.

My plan is to discuss a severence package to tide me over until I am able to look for work again. However know that I would be better off looking for work whilst still in full time employment.

I guess I should put the new bike on the back burner again. I wish I hadn't sold my old one.

Any suggestions for tomorrow's meeting appreciated.

[Mom]

Find a lawyer, take him with you!

Actually, you dont need a lawyer, but you should take someone with you to take notes of what is said. Remain calm at all costs. If you have an employment agreement it should have provisions to protect you. If you dont have one, get a lawyer!

[Fatjim]

The hard way takes time. I'm supprised they talked to you about it first.

Look for a new job while your being managed out of the role.

Also discuss this with your new boss, see if he wants you to stay. (take a voice recorder)

On the other hand, you might just be shit at your job, and you deserve to be fired.

[Korumba]

The guy is full of shit!

Take the HR option.

(34 characters)

[Warr]

Y e s!!! Get hold of an employment person, Cant remember their title, but you would be foolish to go into the meeting alone.

[JimO]

they cant just fire you even if you are shit at your job contact a employment specialist

[Grahameeboy]

I think you will find he is in breach of many Employment rules.

If you have no previous / current disciplinary issues on your staff file, then the process is verbal, written, final and then out. If none of these are present then I don't think he has a leg to stand on.

With your surgery coming up the harder way is actually just resigning so stick to your guns and take him on with HR.

[Nasty]

Construtive dismissal ... its a standard mitigation strategy. They have admitted they want rid of you ... and they were dumb enough to tell you. Go NOW and document all discussions .... make sure you write everything down. Then Ring an employment speciallist lawyer .. they will love this case!!! And it won't take long to settle.

[doc]

"Things aren't working out and I'd like you to resign. We can do this the easy way, or the hard way via HR. Which would you prefer? I'd prefer it if you left now!"

Depends on what your crime was...
Obviously you have no union backup. The easy way is for him. You take his hard way and you get what your entitled too thru HR and recourse later on , employments laws stuff. It sucks, but thats life and you were considering moving on anyway. Drag it out you are still getting an income. He can't avoid his responsibilities that way....However he is serious and you sure your telling us everything

[Blackbird]

What everyone else said. Get representation and reduce everything you said and what your boss said to writing, any witness statements, performance reviews, the lot. And remember, if he does boot you out, you have recourse to a personal grievance procedure. When your boss says "the hard way", he really means for him! Best of luck.

[oldrider]

He has just put a gun to his head and given you control of the trigger.

Get an advocate who is conversant with employment law and study your conditions of employment between you and your company.

Do not resign until you have all the answers, time is on your side.

Idiot managers like this one are ruining this country, of course you may be an actual fuckwit and need to go but he has to follow specific procedures.

In other words he "must" do it for the judge, should he ever be held to account, this is your time, seize the day. Cheers John.

[Oakie]

You already have grounds for a personal grievance. Possibly a few grand for hurt and humiliation depending on how upset you are and how this affects your mental state.

Go to the meeting tomorrow and tell your boss you have no reason to resign and if he wants to you to leave, he will have to go 'the hard way, via HR'. You need to know that the 'hard way' is only hard for him as it means he has to go through a proper process which includes letting you know why it's not working, telling you what is required to fix it, giving you a time frame to fix it and then having regular meetings to let you know who you're making out. It's 'hard' for him because this would take at least three months to do fairly.

I'll post more shortly. Something is rattling around in my brain trying to get out.

[Str8 Jacket]

Construtive dismissal ... its a standard mitigation strategy. They have admitted they want rid of you ... and they were dumb enough to tell you. Go NOW and document all discussions .... make sure you write everything down. Then Ring an employment speciallist lawyer .. they will love this case!!! And it won't take long to settle.

She's right. I went through something very similar to this last year. Nasty is correct! PM Rantydave, he was AWESOME in helping me out. Just know tha you dont have to go and they legally cant just get rid of you, do what I did. Keep your job but start looking for something better. Then resign when its gonna hurt them!! :yeah::yeah:

[Usarka]

Depends on your industry and your employability. If it is a small industry then bringing an action against your employer may not be the best move long term, especially if you are thinking of leaving anyway, and especially if you think you can find another job. Ditto for getting fired

Negotiate with your boss? At the very least tell them you want a glowing reference (not that written references mean much these days....), and you could also wrangle a cash out if you are good, eg 1 month notice for 2 months pay.

Personally I wouldn't want to work where I'm not wanted anyway but that's just me and the circumstance I am in with my job and my personal situation.

If you do fight it then they need to prove a history of warnings etc which will be very time consuming unless you do a major fuckup in the meantime.

[Grub]

Woo ... this is ratbag employer at it's worst!
Short story, they can't dismiss you. Period. The process takes months and months. He's shit scared of getting HR involved. For you to be dismissed there has to be a whole series of verbal and written warnings taking place over weeks and months.

The correct process is that he has to advise you of the meeting where this is to be discussed. The full agenda has to be on the table. You have to be offered to have a representative with you and I can't remember what the timeline is but it is not 24hrs FFS.

Take some heart from this. Your manager has just cost his company a shit load of money and if things go really well, he could loose his job because of it. You have grounds for a huge settlement based on the way he gave you the ultimatum, the way he wanted an instant answer and a whole lot of other stuff. The fact that you're having surgery (did they know this?) makes it sounds like they didn't want to pay you while recuperating. Play that one for all it's worth!

My advice right now is do nothing! Simply say that you are seeking professional advice and they will be hearing from you in due course. Have no meetings with him that doesn't have a support person for you (it can be a partner, friend, family or lawyer). Take notes really obviously, take your time and folow "due process" of documenting and recording ... he's going to start shitting himself.

Keep us up to date

[smoky]

"Things aren't working out and I'd like you to resign. We can do this the easy way, or the hard way via HR. Which would you prefer? I'd prefer it if you left now!"

This is what I was told this afternoon after returning from lunch. No discussion, no explanation.

yep - of course they want you to just 'leave now', save them some money. Ask them tomorrow to bing in the HR person, you'll get a better idea what's going on, and if they're a good HR person your boss will get told off for the way they have initiated this process.
The fact that you haven’t had any discussion or proper explanation as to why they are affectiively sacking you – would tell me you are either deluding your self or the company has put them selves into a very poor situation that you could take full advantage of.


I am having knee surgery at the end of Feb and don't expect to be fully mobile (to look for work) until the end of March at the earliest. ....

My plan is to discuss a severence package to tide me over until I am able to look for work again. However know that I would be better off looking for work whilst still in full time employment.

Yes - but, on a positive worst case senario, it's a good time to be looking for work - lot's of opportunities
You will buy more time fighting a little with them


I guess I should put the new bike on the back burner again. I wish I hadn't sold my old one.

They way they have started the process - if you play your cards right you will get enough to buy your bike out right, even if you're in the wrong.
I' know of employees who have been sexually harassing clients, thieves, and non performers - and even following employment law to the letter, they still ended up being paid out $5000 to $10000 - it's kind of reality in today’s employment environment


Any suggestions for tomorrow's meeting appreciated.

Yes – To fire you they first need to look at your lack of performance – or what it is that they are unhappy with, then in good faith begin a process of performance management to try to correct these things – by law they are required to this first, they need to show a clear process toward the point where they then seek to terminate your employment.

tomorrow it is important you don't say anything, commit to anything or give any indication you are going to take whatever they offer.
Don’t get into any personal discussions.
Take a pad and pen and take notes
Take a witness – very important
Treat it like it is only an opportunity for them to explain things to you.

If they push you for an answer – simply say you haven’t had enough time to consult an employment lawyer – nothing else, don’t try to explain yourself.

Use every chance you can to stall the proceedings – try really hard to put tomorrows meeting off until you have got good advice.

What would be a really good result for you is if they get all pissy about it and send you home – it’ll increase your final compensation payout.

Then start looking around for an employment lawyer – and get a ‘Personal Grievance’ claim underway – I will tell you now – it is cheaper to give you $5000 to $10000 compensation to get ride of you, than pay for lawyers to fight a PG. On top of that they will owe you full pay from the time they send you home until settlement – during which time you can recover from your knee operation.

[Usarka]

Simply say that you are seeking professional advice and they will be hearing from you in due course. Have no meetings with him that doesn't have a support person for you (it can be a partner, friend, family or lawyer). Take notes really obviously, take your time and folow "due process" of documenting and recording ...


good advice.

And ask for a copy of any notes/minutes he takes from meetings that you do have.

[Unit]

Bloody good advice and bang on. Its hard to be brave and keep cool when you are being so directly assaulted, that is, your employer discarding you abruptly.
Definitely use tomorrow as an information gathering day, and not an information giving day, make them work hard for access to your point of view

[Oakie]

I'll post more shortly. Something is rattling around in my brain trying to get out.

It got out. Firstly, if you don't have time to get a proper employment specialist to help you tomorrow, you are still entitled to take anyone in as a support person. At least for the value of having a witness, you do need someone else there. Get them to take notes on what was said. If you do go that way, don't commit yourself to any course of action at the meeting. Tell them you will consider what has been said and get back to them.
What was rattling around in my brain though is that you need to lock him into what he told you today. Say at the start of the meeting "you told me yesterday that it's not working out and you want me to resign. I need you to tell me what it is that is making it 'not work out'." Hopefully he will give you some reason and if he does it means he won't be able to introduce any other matters later on when his HR team tell him what an idiot he has been.
If he can't give a reason, well he's pretty stuffed too.
Bottom line is that if he does comes up with something that is performance related and not serious misconduct he needs to go through a performance management process rather than just saying he wants you gone. Don't be bullied into anything. You actually are in a strong position to retain your job for a few months if you want to stay there.

[riffer]

Been in this situation twice. Both times consulted lawyer immediately. Both times got awarded significant sums of money. Can't comment more but here's the rules:

Employer's reasons for dismissal

An employee who has been dismissed may ask the employer for a written statement setting out the reasons for the dismissal. They must do this within 60 days after the dismissal or after the date they became aware of it, whichever is later.
The employer must give the statement to the employee within 14 days after being asked. This information may be important in later efforts to resolve the problem. Also, if the employer does not provide this statement, the employee will be able to raise a personal grievance after the 90-day period.
Three-year limitation period on personal grievances

Employees may not start a personal grievance action in the Employment Relations Authority or the Employment Court more than three years after they have raised it with the employer.
Remedies for personal grievances

An employee with a grievance claim may ask the employer for any remedy the employee thinks appropriate. If the grievance goes to the Employment Relations Authority, the following types of remedy can be asked for.
Reinstatement

The Authority may order that an employee be put back in his or her previous position or a similar one that is not worse for the employee.
If the personal grievance is found to be valid and the employee asks for reinstatement, the Authority must order it if it is practicable.
The employer must carry out the Authority's decision, even if the decision is under appeal, unless the Authority or the Court orders otherwise.
Interim reinstatement

The Authority can order the employee to be reinstated until the personal grievance is heard, if the employee asks for this. The Authority may impose conditions when ordering reinstatement.
Reimbursement

If an employee has lost wages or other money as a result of the grievance, the Employment Relations Authority can order the employer to pay all or part of the lost amount. Unless the Authority thinks that the employee was partly to blame (http://www.ers.govt.nz/problem/pg_print.html#contributory), it must order the employer to pay at least all lost money up to three months' ordinary time wages, and may award more.
Compensation

The Authority may order the employer to pay money to the employee for:

any effects on the employee personally, such as humiliation, loss of dignity or injury to his or her feelings
the loss of any benefit which the employee might reasonably have expected if the grievance had not arisen.

[Pex Adams]

Tomorrow morning go to your nearest bike shop, take a bike for a spin - and the best course of action will come to you...

FREEEEeeeeeeedddddooommm!!!!:scooter::scooter:

However in saying that - tell them you don't want to leave. You like it here, and haven't completed what you came to achieve. It might be a load of shit, but atleast it'll buy you some time.

HR love that shit, and know that the its a lot easier to put performance measures in place, then actually going down the track of kicking you out.

Get your priorities straight, and take it from there. Good Luck.

[FJRider]

The hard way takes time. I'm supprised they talked to you about it first.

Look for a new job while your being managed out of the role.

Also discuss this with your new boss, see if he wants you to stay. (take a voice recorder)

On the other hand, you might just be shit at your job, and you deserve to be fired.

I agree, but dont TELL HIM you got a voice recorder.Check your employment contract for amount of NOTICE that must be given. 0800 WE HELP is an outfit that sorts out employment issues,payment ONLY if they WIN. Might be worth a call. It can be a shit fight for an employer/boss to dismiss a staff member. Possible reasons for INSTANT dismissal are (normally) stated in your employment contract. AND... ANY WARNINGS (written or verbal) that MUST be given. ASK THAT ANY COMMUNICATIONS FROM HIM TO YOU, ON THE SUBJECT OF YOUR EMPLOYMENT, BE IN WRITING. "For your LAWYER to study"
JUST DONT LOSE YOUR COOL

[Hitcher]

This is a classic case of what's called wrongful dismissal. Do not resign. Get a lawyer. The good news is that you're probably going to get a very nice payout.

[MadDuck]

All very good advice so far but there are always two sides to a story. I have been on both.

Main thing has already been suggested. Keep any emotions out of it! You want to know the facts and only the facts at this point.

Let them do ALL the talking because you have time to respond under the Act. Take a witness hell even if its the cleaner (you are entitled to this with 24 hours notice) even if they just take notes actually at this point i would recommend SAYING NOTHING.

Record all the facts. DONT make suggestions about where you might fit in the future. There is a cool down period if they dont adhere to it THEN you have grounds for a case.

[LilSel]

Dont resign... Let them do it 'their' way, it takes way longer... then when you have surgery... they gotta pay 80% of your wages till your recovered... you can look for a new job over that time??... fingers X'd by that time you'd have found something, give your notice when you have something else secured... hey presto no financial difficulties (apart from the -20%)... time to find a new job... n they dont 'win'...



(...so long as you havent done something that can be considered 'serious missconduct' etc...)

[McJim]

"Things aren't working out and I'd like you to resign. We can do this the easy way, or the hard way via HR. Which would you prefer? I'd prefer it if you left now!"

Fuckme - I thought Dover had left the country now I find that you're working for him :rofl:

Seriously though - have you had any written or verbal warnings before this shitfight happened?

[T.W.R]

"Things aren't working out and I'd like you to resign. We can do this the easy way, or the hard way via HR. Which would you prefer? I'd prefer it if you left now!"

This is what I was told this afternoon after returning from lunch. No discussion, no explanation.

He then agreed to give me 24 hours to consider what I should do.

I had no idea where this came from. I suspect that she has confronted him with this and he is kicking me out was this knee jerk reaction.

The surprising part is that my new boss will not actually be my boss until April 1, so my old boss can do as he pleases, which he has.


My plan is to discuss a severence package to tide me over until I am able to look for work again. However know that I would be better off looking for work whilst still in full time employment.


Any suggestions for tomorrow's meeting appreciated.

As Per the Employment Law Guide:

Just as an employee can terminate an employment agreement by giving the employer appropriate notice, an employer may seek to terminate an agreement by GIVING the employee appropriate notice. If the employee accepts the dismissal, that may be an end to the matter.
But this is not what usually happens. An employer cannot terminate an agreement without good reason: in other words, employment is not terminable at the will of the employer. And the law gives employees the right, and the means, to challenge dismissals --- by using the personal grievance procedures of the Employment Relations Act

I've got access to pages of the dos & don'ts of Termination of Employment

But if what you said occurred as it did then you've got all the rights to file a personal grievance against your employer and he wouldn't have a leg to stand on

[BarBender]

What is your employment status i.e. Are you a contractor,temporary,casual or permanent employee?

Either way you need to refer to what ever contract is in place to see what that says. Obviously if you are contractor you may be on a weeks notice...

However if you are a permanent...
You're first priority is to defer tomorrows meeting and refer to your employment agreement. Do you have one? If so refer to those sections under termination clause and process for handling employee disputes. It should state quite clearly what your rights are and what the process is. If not - they are in breech of the Employment Relations Act - this is legislation ie law to protect employees.

Secondly - send an email to your manager saying that you need time to view your contract and that you believe that what he has done is out of line and a possible breach of the terms and conditions of your employment - specifically there has been no consultation, no reason for what appears to be constructive dismissal and that you may be seeking legal advice.

Good luck

[Qkkid]

Take a dictaphone in your pocket dont tell them till the end of the meeting ,let them put their foot in it ,then screw them over.If there is a settlement it will be alot bigger after they know you have recorded the meeting.

[YellowDog]

I am quite shocked by this amazing response.

A VERY BIG THANK YOU TO ALL OF YOU (even the ones who think I deserve it) :clap:

Some excellent advice from both (flee or fight) sides of the fence.

No I haven't done anything wrong (that I know of). I believe it is as simple as I have upset him by daring to alert my new boss to the problems I have experienced and that she is also likely to experience whilst working with this man. I do not know however but I still suspect it was just a knee jerk reaction.

When he said it to me I was quite shocked, but almost laughed. Yes he is quite a fool and made it very clear that he wanted to avoid HR and lawyers (his easy route).

I have told a couple of colleagues after the "What was that all about" whom were really shocked and are now fearful for their own roles.

Amazingly enough, the last email he sent me before Christmas was to tell me what a great job I was doing - Pityful.

I will see how it goes tomorrow. I will ask for 4 months and be willing to accept 3. He has already offered me 2 months to resign.

I would prefer to leave on good terms, but not too cheaply. I also have a risk to consider if my knee operation doesn't go too well.

If I don't get offered 3 months, then I will fight through HR and lawyers if necessary whilst I search for another job.

Great suggestion about the recording, yes I will record the conversation confirming what was said yesterday.

So far as losing my cool goes, I am more likely to burst out laughing. I guess I could always make laughing seem like crying (for a short while).

Thanks again everyone.

I’ll let you know how it goes.

Almost as good as Shortland Street!

[rainman]

Ferkin hell mate, I'd heard things weren't so cool around the corner there but I had no idea things were quite that crap. The advice above is all good - lawyer up and screw the bastards for all you can. I get quite pissy about this sort of thing - it's actually reasonably easy to do the decent thing when a company and an employee need to part ways (can be for a variety of reasons) but it involves common decency and fair play, none of which has been displayed above from what you've said.

If I understand things correctly they need to give you reasonable (three days?) formal notice of a meeting to discuss matters which may affect your employment, so you may be able to move for a delay while you get a good lawyer in place. I know an absolutely evil employment lawyer (a good attribute, trust me), who will have 'em on their knees in no time. I'll find her details and PM you. A bit pricey, but worth it. And one other thing - keep your cool and don't say anything in the heat of the moment. You're entitled, by common law, which is bigger than your dickhead boss' ego, to a fair process and treatment. Breathe deeply, smile, take the Prozac, whatever it takes to keep an even keel. Even when it gets a bit dark in the tunnel... remember there is a light at the end. Been there, done that!

If you wanna catch up for a coffee tomorrow just let me know - I have a gap towards the middle of the day - we can heard down to Meeting Room C (maybe it should be G given the circumstances?) :drinkup:

[Brett]

Ask the twat if he even knows what the employment act is and if he knows even the tiniest about it. Then tell the prick he is breaching it, unless you have done something that your contract clearly states you can be instantly dismissed for!
Hold on, take your time to leave so that you can make sure that you are covered and have a new job lined up. And tell him exactly what you think of his excellent people skills.

[YellowDog]

What is your employment status i.e. Are you a contractor,temporary,casual or permanent employee?

Either way you need to refer to what ever contract is in place to see what that says. Obviously if you are contractor you may be on a weeks notice...

However if you are a permanent...
You're first priority is to defer tomorrows meeting and refer to your employment agreement. Do you have one? If so refer to those sections under termination clause and process for handling employee disputes. It should state quite clearly what your rights are and what the process is. If not - they are in breech of the Employment Relations Act - this is legislation ie law to protect employees.

Secondly - send an email to your manager saying that you need time to view your contract and that you believe that what he has done is out of line and a possible breach of the terms and conditions of your employment - specifically there has been no consultation, no reason for what appears to be constructive dismissal and that you may be seeking legal advice.

Good luck
Yes, I do have an employment contract and I have been employed for more than 12 months. 30 day termination.

A will forward him my contratulatory emails from the CEO, CFO and also from him.

Hopefully he will want to play ball and pay me to resign.

We all have our price. Mine is more than 2 months.

Whoever said the take a new bike for a Freeeedom Road test was close to what I would like to do.

[Nasty]

We all have our price. Mine is more than 2 months.

Sounds cheap to me .. I walked away with in excess of $14k for a low level role ... so you should take the time to investigate properly .. and not decided right this second - speak to an employment lawyer first.

[MadDuck]

Yes, I do have an employment contract and I have been employed for more than 12 months. 30 day termination.

A will forward him my contratulatory emails from the CEO, CFO and also from him.

Hopefully he will want to play ball and pay me to resign.

We all have our price. Mine is more than 2 months.

Whoever said the take a new bike for a Freeeedom Road test was close to what I would like to do.

Hmm boss wants me to resign. Raises a question in my mind. 2 months pay FORGET IT! wont happen

[Ixion]

This is where you find out how useful a union could be .

Do not agree to resign, unless there is some BadShit they can pin on you. But if it was "a bolt out of the blue", then your boss is now up Shit Creek, trying to paddle with his dick.

What Mr Oakie said, and Mr Riffer. Just one point to add to the latter. They MUST give you reasons for dismissal at the time. And you are entitled, after dismissal , to ask for a written statement of why. If the reasons before , and those after, do not agree, woo hoo.

At the meeting, tactic is what Mr Oakie said. "I was very surprised yesterday when you said things were not working out, and that you want me to resign immediately, because you have not mentioned any concerns before this. Could you elaborate on what isn't working out, and what you think I might do to resolve that?"

Either way, he's stuffed. If he brings up performance issues, he hasn't (I presume) raised them in the past. So, bringing them up now, all he can do is start a performance review and coaching process. If he tries "personality clashes " or something, then he's in even deeper doo-doos. And by trying to push immediate resignation on you he has irretrievably buggered his case procedurally.

When HR do get involved, they're going to KILL him.

As said by all, talk to a lawyer. If it does get nasty, and you feel you can't take it, you'll almost certainly have a water tight case for constructive dismissal. And lots of $$$.

All this is assuming that there is no 'history', that it was indeed a 'bolt out of the blue'

If I were still a union delegate , and taking this to the Tribunal, I'd be asking for a redundancy package of at least 6 + 3 (or 12 + 2, whichever worked best for you) , full notice period, continuation of sick leave and medical insurance , meaningful assistance in looking for a new job (use of office , phone etc), a clean reference, and , say, $50000 in damages. Wouldn't expect to get quite that, but a good bit of it.

Or, the whole thing goes away, you stay and await the new boss.

Which is another option that as delegate I'd explore. Arguing that it IS a personality thing, and suggesting a secondment for a couple of months to another department or similar. Until the new boss arrives. Who may have other ideas. Don't know how practical that is in your situation, of course.

Also, where does your boss stand in the pecking chain? In cases like this I'd often try to have the matter taken before the boss's boss.

[rainman]

Take a dictaphone in your pocket dont tell them till the end of the meeting ,let them put their foot in it ,then screw them over.If there is a settlement it will be alot bigger after they know you have recorded the meeting.

Not absolutely sure but a recording without prior consent may be relatively useless legally. (Still valuable to have a personal record though - most cellphones can do a decent job of this too).

YellowDog, don't negotiate without your lawyer present! 3 or 4 months equivalent pay would be a fairly standard settlement, but think of the other people this bastard will fuck over unless someone gives him the learn. Consider it a public service, raising the management IQ....

[rainman]

If I were still a union delegate , and taking this to the Tribunal, I'd be asking for a redundancy package of at least 6 + 3 (or 12 + 2, whichever worked best for you) , full notice period, continuation of sick leave and medical insurance , meaningful assistance in looking for a new job (use of office , phone etc), a clean reference, and , say, $50000 in damages. Wouldn't expect to get quite that, but a good bit of it.


Wow! Can I join your union? :)

[Ixion]

Amazingly enough, the last email he sent me before Christmas was to tell me what a great job I was doing - Pityful.


He's toast. Can't even argue performance.

[YellowDog]

Fuckme - I thought Dover had left the country now I find that you're working for him :rofl:

Seriously though - have you had any written or verbal warnings before this shitfight happened?
Not a word or a warning.

Of course, I am not being fired.

I am simply being asked if I would like to resign.

My answer is:
4 months = Yes
3 months = Maybe
2 months = No
1 month = No.

Whilst I haven't officially notified my employer of my impending knee surgery, I have alreday discussed this with HR (unofficially) and I am sure I will have email records too.

[Ixion]

Wow! Can I join your union? :)

Ironically, where there is stroing union presence, this sort of shit seldom happens. Because employers know that they'll pay and pay and pay if they stuff it up.

Where termination of employment is justifed, it's not hard to do it properly. This is about as far from "properly" as y' can get. Cases as bad as this seldom actually get to court, because the employers lawyer will tell him straight that he doesn't stand a chance. Settlement out of court.

Drug and Chemical Workers, BTW.

[geoffm]

Take a (hidden) tape recorder with you, get it all on tape, and get him to repeat what he said. A witness would be good, but it might put him off. Then start shopping for a new bike, you will soon have lots of cash...
Get a lawyer, they can't do this. Have a look at your employment contract - by law you have to have one and the courts don't look and the lack of one with favour.
The short answer is through HR - unless you are going to get heaps of moeny as a golden parachute.

[MadDuck]

This is where you find out how useful a union could be .


Yay ...knew you would show eventually ...Bring back the union..ring back stop work meetings...bring back lock outs...damm anyone that works hard and sack all the niggers...you got a hat Mr Ixiom?

Times have changed ...Labour gummit says so. We have employments laws that work if you dont jump on some idiot band wagon and make them work for you

[T.W.R]

Have a nosy around here if you need more info

http://www.ers.dol.govt.nz/

[geoffm]

Keep that email on your positive performacen, along with any other reviews. That is your reply if they say you are useless,e tc
Geoff

[YellowDog]

Not absolutely sure but a recording without prior consent may be relatively useless legally. (Still valuable to have a personal record though - most cellphones can do a decent job of this too).

YellowDog, don't negotiate without your lawyer present! 3 or 4 months equivalent pay would be a fairly standard settlement, but think of the other people this bastard will fuck over unless someone gives him the learn. Consider it a public service, raising the management IQ....
Point well put and taken on board, as indeed are the others.

Now on a 'Public Service' mission.

This calls for a bigger NEW bike!

[rainman]

Drug and Chemical Workers, BTW.

Might be a bit of a reach then.... :)

[MadDuck]

Point well put and taken on board, as indeed are the others.

Now on a 'Public Service' mission.

This calls for a bigger NEW bike!


Me thinks you need a rather big shovel. Ask for an opinion on here and well there ya go...everyones a damn expert

[NighthawkNZ]

"Things aren't working out and I'd like you to resign. We can do this the easy way, or the hard way via HR. Which would you prefer? I'd prefer it if you left now!"



To get fired, you need to have verble and written warnings. (for the same thing). My boss got caught on this after an employee got caught steeling... and had to pay out... (though even I agreed with me boss)
Get a lawyer.
To be made redundant they must give you notice, and they must not replace you.
Double check your employment agreement and then check it again with a lawyer... many contracts are writen by the employee (to meet their wants and needs) and are not worth the paper its writen on when comes to the crunch, are usually breaking a couple of laws in the process...
Get a lawyer.
Being asked to resign is a wank factor that he is to chicken to say you are fired. Else he would say the position is being made redundant...
mention the employment contract, point out the 30 days temination.
get a lawyer.
ummmmmmm :scratch: I am sure there is more but Im sleepy :zzz:

[offrd]

Employment Dispute Services - Employment Law SpecialistsYou simply have to call 0800 SACKED - that’s 0800 722 533 - and your call will be automatically diverted to your nearest advocate. ...

www.employmentdisputes.co.nz/people.html

[Zoolander]

Some good advice here, don't let them bully you into resigning!! Just a couple of points, someone correct me if i'm wrong - as far as taking hidden tape recorders in, I believe there is a law that prevents any recordings being used as evidence if you have not advised them you will be doing so (can be taken out of context, etc.) By all means take a recorder in, but I think you will have to let them know beforehand. Also don't trust HR!! Take an independant support person in with you. If you can't afford legal help or are not a member of a union then you can get free help, try contacting employment law or similar. Good luck!!

[Tank]

Speaking as someone who had to pay out for an 'unusual' dismissal of someone who had worked for me for less than a week - it cost my company 10k. So its worth your time as your case sounds more open and shut than my one.

Good luck!

[YellowDog]

Speaking as someone who had to pay out for an 'unusual' dismissal of someone who had worked for me for less than a week - it cost my company 10k. So its worth your time as your case sounds more open and shut than my one.

Good luck!
Sounds unreasonable. Hard luck. I'm sure there are many willing to milk the system without just cause.

[Tank]

Sounds unreasonable. Hard luck. I'm sure there are many willing to milk the system without just cause.

It happens. I was just glad to be rid of him. He interviewed fantastic - then when he turned up he was a fuckwit. 3 staff said if he didnt go - they would.

Such is life - Im guess he is serving fries now.

[shafty]

Good Luck Mate;

I casually put my Palm Pilot on the table in such a situation - it was recording. After the (Dickhead) GM and I had finished, he said "What does that thing do?" My reply: "Most things!"

Insofar as permittable recording goes, - you can at least use it to make detailed notes - and just say, that between you and your Support Person, you remembered most things. They won't be recording you, so no worries.

Enjoy your new Bike!

[DingoZ]

Employment Dispute Services - Employment Law SpecialistsYou simply have to call 0800 SACKED - that’s 0800 722 533 - and your call will be automatically diverted to your nearest advocate. ...

www.employmentdisputes.co.nz/people.html

Good people. Had occassion to use their services a few years back. With an employer severing my employment while on injury leave (spend 6 weeks in hospital), got out and returned to work, got told you no longer have a job.

Everything was handled through these guys. Got a great result too. Unfair dismissal, compensated and they (the company), got hauled big time in employment court.

So give em a bell.

[skidMark]

"Things aren't working out and I'd like you to resign. We can do this the easy way, or the hard way via HR. Which would you prefer? I'd prefer it if you left now!"




Yes i'm sure he would prefer that, because he knows he doesn't have a leg to stand on, if you have had no warnings etc.

Be interesting too see where this goes.

Perhaps new boss has a different vision for the company and figured you would go if if it came from the guy who said it? I do not know full details so i shall not assume anything.

But best of luck with it and fight it to the end, jobs are getting hard to come by as ive discovered.

FIGHT IT!

Skid.

[skidMark]

Oh also i can vouch for what others have said...record/ note down everything.

My sister went through similar once.

Every comment said afterds she would go away and write it down, they never knew. but if there was a witness there she would get them to sign next to it to confirm it's truth...

showed up at the meeting with a big notebook. with everything said in it.

got real interesting that did lol.

bit like the old cadbury ad for cream eggs

don't get caught with egg on ya face!

[Oakie]

Just waiting to hear what transpires today. Love to be a fly on the wall.

[riffer]

Indeed. I hope Mr YellowDog doesn't act like his username in the slightest.

Go get 'em fella!

[mstriumph]

i wonder how many employees actually get stampeded into resigning in circumstances like this?

please don't be one of them

he's obviously not good at this or he'd not have shown you his hand ....

it may get unpleasant [----then again it COULD even be fun :devil2:]
.... but DO NOT RESIGN .....

please keep us posted :calm:

[Beemer]

You should be able to legally record any conversation you have with this person as you are a party to the conversation. I can legally record interviews over the phone without telling the other person because I am also taking part in the conversation - if I were taping it on behalf of someone else, that is illegal.

I've worked for bosses like this before. One kept saying the karate club I used to go was useless and I should go along to his club. I did, and he kicked the shit out of me! My club was more into punching whereas his was more like kick-boxing and he would drop to the ground and scissor-kick my legs. I was so badly bruised when I left that I had difficulty pushing the clutch in on the car. He laughed the following day when I told him and said I should harden up. I could barely walk for days and it was only when his wife told him how disgusted she was that he rang and apologised. I started getting a good reputation as a motorsport photographer while I was working for him and he did everything he could to stop me selling them to other publications. The union said as long as I offered the shots to him first, he couldn't stop me, but by god he tried. Every time I complained he would tell me if I didn't like it, I could fuck off! In the end he got me on a technicality. I covered the Rally of NZ and had a few days leave when I got home. I took the photos into the Evening Post (in the old days) and they published one the day before I returned to work, so I was fired for breach of contract. It wasn't worth fighting him as he'd made my life a misery for three years, so I left. Three years later when a relative died and left me shitloads of money I took great delight in telling one of my former colleagues as I knew he would find out about it! He's doing a dead-end job now while I am self-employed, so karma wins out in the end!

[Oakie]

2 days on and still no word. The suspense killing me.
Jeez, I hope they haven't killed him and hidden the body.

[Big Dave]

If I ever wanted confirmation of why I don't employ anybody this is the thread.

[ManDownUnder]

If I ever wanted confirmation of why I don't employ anybody this is the thread.

I thought the "Big Dave's an arsehole" thread was in PD...

[Big Dave]

I thought the "Big Dave's an arsehole" thread was in PD...

I didn't know there was one.

Didn't come across right - I meant it's good to be free of these hassles and can just walk. no strings.
Employment lawyers - yuck.
Then a Manger with no understanding of the rules could cost me 3-15k - depending on salary?

Freelancing is good. If it goes sour you just don't do any more work.
Ah recommends it.

[Mr Merde]

Yellowdog,

I just heard this morning about this.

(For all and sundry I work for the same firm and know exactly who the boss is. Personally I wouldnt urinate on him if he was on fire.)

Sorry about all the sh1t hitting the fan Andrew. In my opinion take the firm for all you can. They have been screwing their employees for years as far as I can see and that particular boss is a nasty piece of slime.


Keep in touch

[lanci]

Make em work for what they want. If you are decent worker, you deserve something for the behaviour of the manager.

On another note, I noticed that Skidmark said that jobs were getting hard to come by............where are you looking mate? Unemployment is at its lowest in years (even if the Sickness Benefit vs Dole numbers have been inflated). Every call centre I know of is under staffed...........

[smoky]

If I ever wanted confirmation of why I don't employ anybody this is the thread.

I’m a manager, I have 32 direct reports. They give me employees who they have issues with to either get ride of them or performance manage them back to where they need to be.

If you’re an honest boss, who respects people, if you treat people how you would expect to be treated – you don’t really have too many problems.
I love managing my team - it's a lot of fun

[Winter]

Wheres it at YellowDog?

[Big Dave]

I’m a manager, I have 32 direct reports. They give me employees who they have issues with to either get ride of them or performance manage them back to where they need to be.

If you’re an honest boss, who respects people, if you treat people how you would expect to be treated – you don’t really have too many problems.
I love managing my team - it's a lot of fun

I sales managed a team of up to 25 'AVJennings Home consultants' once.

Mucho prefer flying solo. I like how if something doesn't suit you can just walk.

I encourage people to try it - alternative work practices. particularly in Auckland and the traffic. That was my point before.

Personally - In my line of work - If I had a manager/editor/ art director who said to me 'Resign', I would.
Negotiate a reference, when to pick up the cheque for full entitlement, try for a bonus for going 'easy' and stand and walk out the door.
It's already all over rover.

Thus avoiding Lawyers, dossiers, stressful meetings, character assassination, workplace tension and if the employer has a good lawyer too - possibly not that big a payout in comparison.

[scracha]

Speaking as someone who had to pay out for an 'unusual' dismissal of someone who had worked for me for less than a week - it cost my company 10k.


Are you hiring? :2thumbsup


Isn't there ever circumstances for instant dismissal in New Zealand? e.g. Employees physically fighting, adversely affecting the company image, that sort of thing.

[oldrider]

I sales managed a team of up to 25 'AVJennings Home consultants' once.

Mucho prefer flying solo. I like how if something doesn't suit you can just walk - and do something that does (suit.)

I encourage people to try it - alternative work practices. particularly in Auckland and the traffic. That was my badly made point before.

Personally - In my line of work - If I had a manager/editor/ art director who said to me 'Resign', I would.
Negotiate a reference, when to pick up the cheque for full entitlement, try for a bonus for going 'easy' and stand and walk out the door.
It's already all over rover.

Thus avoiding Lawyers, dossiers, stressful meetings, character assassination, workplace tension and if the employer has a good lawyer too - possibly not that big a payout in comparison.

Successful dismissal is all about diplomacy!

The "art" of diplomacy is:...Telling someone where to go and have them looking forward to the trip!....:whistle:....Cheers John.

[YellowDog]

THE VERDICT

First of all, you guys have been absolutely fantastic. I have had some excellent advice. Some pertinent, some not however all constructive and helpful.

The PMs with offers of support and KBers willing to put themselves out to help and witness proceedings has been quite touching. I sort of knew how I wanted to play things however my views and confidence changed considerably as a result of such assistance before the meeting.

It was a really tough day yesterday and I am sorry for not posting last night, but I really was shattered and not really fit to put words to paper. I didn’t leave the office until after 7pm. I woke up today with a splitting headache and it has lasted for most of the day.

My preparation was quite interesting as having painted a picture to KBers that I believed to be the case, I was actually wrong. My position was far stronger than I thought. The written documentation says that I was of ‘superhero’ status for Aug/Sep/Oct being awarded Northern Region ‘Best performer’ with case of Champagne in October. I also had a letter dated 14 Dec 2007 stating what a significant contributor I was to the company and how I had an excellent future to look forward to with a promised performance review after the merger in April. So in effect I was relegated from Superhero on 14 Dec, one week before the seasonal break, and then 4 weeks after the start of the new year (14 Jan) actually reclassified as totally useless. All I have actually done in that time is followed the instructions of the person I was told was my new boss; who did not want me to follow the activities my old boss wanted me to. I spoke with my new boss and asked if she had a problem with me and did not want me in her team? She said that she hadn’t had much experience of working with me however she did say that she had no problem with me at all. She was a bit sheepish and it was clear they had been spoken to about their plans to dump me out. She told me that she had to leave it down to my old boss as he technically was still responsible for me until Mar 31. Excellent (not)!

I would say the day went well and I am happy with the result. I saw Rainman at lunchtime (as he only works next door) who gave me an alternative view based upon some highly pertinent experience. I went into battle at 1:30pm well prepared, but alone which is what I wanted for the initial meeting. I recorded the entire meeting and confirmed everything that we had said at the previous days meeting. I then spoke for about 30 minutes stating my case as to why I should stay at the company and what I had to achieved (ups and downs) and what I was looking forward to achieving under the new structure. It was constructive, upbeat, and positive. To get rid of me would be a big mistake and a costly one to the business.

The response I received was one of intransigence and inflexibility. It was illogical and irrational. There was no movement and I was presented with one of two options, as indeed I was yesterday. Option one: 2 months money to go now. Option two: We go to HR and start an uncomfortable process. It was made clear that it would not be a good time, so I suggested that option 2 could be far more uncomfortable for the company, not wanting to play my trump cards at this stage.

So I changed tact and suggested we cut to the chase. You want me to go, I want to stay. You are offering me peanuts to go so you are not going to get what you want unless you up the offer. To cut a much longer story short in explaining the cost of the uncomfortable route and the fact however you try and dress it up, they are being complete bastards (which he knew). I stated that I would like to part on good terms and I don’t understand why he does not want the same. There was then some movement, but not enough, considering my strong position. I then gave him the opportunity to move further and meet me half way to give any easy route out for them and save them a great deal of trouble. He said ‘no’, and I said ‘how do you know’. I left the meeting not accepting the ‘no’ saying let me know. He left the meeting saying I’ll get back to you in 2 hours. 15 minutes later I got the nod that we were OK. A good result with no threats, loss of tempers, or having to work the most uncomfortable six weeks of my life. It would have been uncomfortable regardless of this situation and being able to get my surgery with a reasonable healing time is priceless to me. I know that if I was still working there I would have done too much too quickly (self pressure).

Of course if we had gone for the HR/legal route there was no way I would have worked those six weeks. I had 20 sick days accrued and would probably not return after my knee surgery. The legally represented route would have been the one I would have taken and with confidence of having a very strong case. I have friends who are unemployable as a result of suing every employer they leave and this is something I would like to avoid in such an incestuous and small NZ IT industry. Everyone knows everyone and I have now parted on good terms. The main victory for me was getting someone totally immovable to move. Also the fact that he thrives on causing distress and bullying employees caused him frustration because I wouldn’t react. It was one of my better performances (and they are quite rare), which was mainly down to confidence in my own position. I admit after one or two of the more idiotic moments I had to send myself to my ‘happy place’ and then quickly back to continue, but I was cool as a cucumber.

After the meeting I went and saw HR and discussed being kicked out in this way. They have showed concern that I might sue their arses off. I have said that this is unlikely so long as they honour what has been agreed. To sue them is not my style and I am quite content with my new bike (oops – I mean settlement). I have received excellent support from colleagues and friends at work and this has been a highly demotivational to other staff who now feel under threat. I get on pretty well with most people and why some managers fail to understand that shitting in your own back yard is not productive or good for staff moral, is beyond me.

So me and my ex-boss are bosom buddies and all smiles (if you can call it that). He has even stumped up same cash for a leaving lunch (no thanks – I’d choke).

Ideally for me, I would like to stay off work until April or May (to give me a chance to run in my new bike), but unfortunately I already have 2 interviews :whistle:

Thanks again guys. I will let you know if they don’t do as agreed. Some of those contacts I received were excellent.

[Big Dave]

Successful dismissal is all about diplomacy!

The "art" of diplomacy is:...Telling someone where to go and have them looking forward to the trip!....:whistle:....Cheers John.

Unless the Peter Principle in invoked.

[oldrider]

Unless the Peter Principle in invoked.

Alas, the Peter principal is neither diplomatic nor constructive!

The diplomacy should therefore have been aimed at a higher level in the organisation in the first instance!

Unfortunately NZ is chock full of lower case managers. :bash:

The "manager" in this thread is typical and obviously a victim of the Peter principal himself.

For those who do not know:

Peter principal is when individuals are promoted beyond the highest level of their incompetence! :spanking: (or am I getting confused now) John.

[Big Dave]

'to' their level of incompetence.


Good result YD.

[shafty]

Congrats Yellow Dog - in time, you must post a pic of the new wheels!

[Macktheknife]

Great result YD, well done mate.
Enjoy your recuperation and the payout, whatever you do with it.

[karla]

THE VERDICT

Ideally for me, I would like to stay off work until April or May (to give me a chance to run in my new bike), but unfortunately I already have 2 interviews :whistle:



:) It's lovely to hear a happy ending

I took a trip to the States with the bonus I was given after a voluntary redundancy. Returned to a "please come and see us before you start looking for work" where I was offered almost double what I was getting at my last job, and I can basically choose my own hours. I'm loving it there and feel appreciated - go figure. :grouphug:

A positive attitude is everything. Still can't figure out relationships tho' :bleh: Thank God for bikes.

Enjoy the next chapter YD ~ :yeah:

[terbang]

So when it all settles, how about a bit of name and shame...

[timorang]

Well done on your result and 'respect' to your approach to a very awkward and unsettling situation.

[Grub]

Good stuff YD .... I love happy endings

[YellowDog]

Having done a lot of work with large governmental organisations, 'The Peter Priciple' is highly prevelant for all to see.

[YellowDog]

So when it all settles, how about a bit of name and shame...
All the people at the firm know who said manager is, however it has since transpired from further conversations that it was a much higher level decision from Sydney.

Whilst they say "don't shoot the messenger" the delivery could have been done a great deal better and far less personally.

[chanceyy]

good outcome YD congrats on the new wheels, good luck at being appreciated at your next place of employment too :yes:

[Oakie]

Good job Yellow Dog. Doesn't sound like you needed our help at all. Well done.

[YellowDog]

Good job Yellow Dog. Doesn't sound like you needed our help at all. Well done.
Oakie mate, I may not have had a good outcome without the input from this board. It has been a huge help.

The main thing it did for me was to reinforce what I believed to be true and also made me prepare more thoroughly than I would have.

It is quite personally insulting when your employer tells you you're crap and you should leave. Having dug out my old emails and company documents, as I already said, I wasn't crap one week before the Christmas Break and to be classed as crap, just 4 weeks into the new year was complete nonsense.

If I had not been so confident, I might have lost my rag and negatively influenced the outcome. Knowing that the legal route would be a bad one for them was a big help and I achieved what I wanted to without showing my hand or resorting the threats.

Thanks guys, the beers are on me :niceone:

[kerfufflez]

THE VERDICT

I was relegated from Superhero


Did you have to revert to wearing your undies on the inside of your clothes?

[YellowDog]

Did you have to revert to wearing your undies on the inside of your clothes?
Can't afford undies.

Happily Unemployed now.

[Brett]

THE VERDICT

First of all, you guys have been absolutely fantastic. I have had some excellent advice. Some pertinent, some not however all constructive and helpful.

The PMs with offers of support and KBers willing to put themselves out to help and witness proceedings has been quite touching. I sort of knew how I wanted to play things however my views and confidence changed considerably as a result of such assistance before the meeting.

It was a really tough day yesterday and I am sorry for not posting last night, but I really was shattered and not really fit to put words to paper. I didn’t leave the office until after 7pm. I woke up today with a splitting headache and it has lasted for most of the day.

My preparation was quite interesting as having painted a picture to KBers that I believed to be the case, I was actually wrong. My position was far stronger than I thought. The written documentation says that I was of ‘superhero’ status for Aug/Sep/Oct being awarded Northern Region ‘Best performer’ with case of Champagne in October. I also had a letter dated 14 Dec 2007 stating what a significant contributor I was to the company and how I had an excellent future to look forward to with a promised performance review after the merger in April. So in effect I was relegated from Superhero on 14 Dec, one week before the seasonal break, and then 4 weeks after the start of the new year (14 Jan) actually reclassified as totally useless. All I have actually done in that time is followed the instructions of the person I was told was my new boss; who did not want me to follow the activities my old boss wanted me to. I spoke with my new boss and asked if she had a problem with me and did not want me in her team? She said that she hadn’t had much experience of working with me however she did say that she had no problem with me at all. She was a bit sheepish and it was clear they had been spoken to about their plans to dump me out. She told me that she had to leave it down to my old boss as he technically was still responsible for me until Mar 31. Excellent (not)!

I would say the day went well and I am happy with the result. I saw Rainman at lunchtime (as he only works next door) who gave me an alternative view based upon some highly pertinent experience. I went into battle at 1:30pm well prepared, but alone which is what I wanted for the initial meeting. I recorded the entire meeting and confirmed everything that we had said at the previous days meeting. I then spoke for about 30 minutes stating my case as to why I should stay at the company and what I had to achieved (ups and downs) and what I was looking forward to achieving under the new structure. It was constructive, upbeat, and positive. To get rid of me would be a big mistake and a costly one to the business.

The response I received was one of intransigence and inflexibility. It was illogical and irrational. There was no movement and I was presented with one of two options, as indeed I was yesterday. Option one: 2 months money to go now. Option two: We go to HR and start an uncomfortable process. It was made clear that it would not be a good time, so I suggested that option 2 could be far more uncomfortable for the company, not wanting to play my trump cards at this stage.

So I changed tact and suggested we cut to the chase. You want me to go, I want to stay. You are offering me peanuts to go so you are not going to get what you want unless you up the offer. To cut a much longer story short in explaining the cost of the uncomfortable route and the fact however you try and dress it up, they are being complete bastards (which he knew). I stated that I would like to part on good terms and I don’t understand why he does not want the same. There was then some movement, but not enough, considering my strong position. I then gave him the opportunity to move further and meet me half way to give any easy route out for them and save them a great deal of trouble. He said ‘no’, and I said ‘how do you know’. I left the meeting not accepting the ‘no’ saying let me know. He left the meeting saying I’ll get back to you in 2 hours. 15 minutes later I got the nod that we were OK. A good result with no threats, loss of tempers, or having to work the most uncomfortable six weeks of my life. It would have been uncomfortable regardless of this situation and being able to get my surgery with a reasonable healing time is priceless to me. I know that if I was still working there I would have done too much too quickly (self pressure).

Of course if we had gone for the HR/legal route there was no way I would have worked those six weeks. I had 20 sick days accrued and would probably not return after my knee surgery. The legally represented route would have been the one I would have taken and with confidence of having a very strong case. I have friends who are unemployable as a result of suing every employer they leave and this is something I would like to avoid in such an incestuous and small NZ IT industry. Everyone knows everyone and I have now parted on good terms. The main victory for me was getting someone totally immovable to move. Also the fact that he thrives on causing distress and bullying employees caused him frustration because I wouldn’t react. It was one of my better performances (and they are quite rare), which was mainly down to confidence in my own position. I admit after one or two of the more idiotic moments I had to send myself to my ‘happy place’ and then quickly back to continue, but I was cool as a cucumber.

After the meeting I went and saw HR and discussed being kicked out in this way. They have showed concern that I might sue their arses off. I have said that this is unlikely so long as they honour what has been agreed. To sue them is not my style and I am quite content with my new bike (oops – I mean settlement). I have received excellent support from colleagues and friends at work and this has been a highly demotivational to other staff who now feel under threat. I get on pretty well with most people and why some managers fail to understand that shitting in your own back yard is not productive or good for staff moral, is beyond me.

So me and my ex-boss are bosom buddies and all smiles (if you can call it that). He has even stumped up same cash for a leaving lunch (no thanks – I’d choke).

Ideally for me, I would like to stay off work until April or May (to give me a chance to run in my new bike), but unfortunately I already have 2 interviews :whistle:

Thanks again guys. I will let you know if they don’t do as agreed. Some of those contacts I received were excellent.


BLOODY WELL DONE MATE!!

[Sollyboy]

The guy is full of shit!

Take the HR option.

(34 characters)

Some dodgy employers out there

[k14]

Can't afford undies.

Happily Unemployed now.
Make sure you sign up for the freebies from helen :2thumbsup think its a 8 week stand down after a "voluntarily" resignation though.

[Beemer]

Bloody good result! Sounds very much like a job I had in the early 1990s. I had been top sales rep for this company for several months and always met my sales targets. My immediate boss left and his position was taken over by the marketing manager, who no one liked. Two staff left immediately rather than work with him, and he made another one's life so miserable she resigned. He was in Auckland and I was in Wellington, along with five or six other sales staff, so I thought I'd be okay. Wrong! I had been in hospital with a cancer scare (thankfully not as serious as first thought) so was a bit behind with my sales figures for that month. He turned up for a meeting and told me that I had a week to achieve 100% of my target or I would be dismissed. I was stunned, so I pointed out that I had been doing really well up until that month and explained that I had been ill and under some stress during the past few weeks. He wasn't keen to budge, but said okay, he would reduce my target to 90% of budget, but the same applied - if I didn't meet it, I would be fired. I got to 89% of budget for the month and was told to leave immediately, with no severance pay, only what I was owed for working up until that day! I had taken my father with me for support and he was told to keep his mouth shut during the meeting. I had never been fired before and was really upset, so I contacted an employment lawyer about it and he took on my case. My boss told me I would get nowhere, but thankfully the case went in my favour and I was awarded a significant amount of money. It hadn't helped his case that they had not replaced me and instead had given some of my territory to each of the other reps, plus when another rep had left, they were not replaced either, so it was obvious they just wanted to reduce staff without paying redundancy. He also got into trouble for trying to get the receptionist to back up his claims that I had not been following his instructions - she was heavily pregnant at the time and he used to jokingly refer to her as "pregnancy brain" because she'd get half-way up the stairs and forget if she was going up or down! I told the guy hearing the case what he called her and that was when I knew I had won because he turned and glared at my boss and said "did you call her that?" He tried to get out of it by saying it was only a joke but the guy said "I asked if you called her that, DID YOU?" and when he said yes, she said "that is appalling, I never want to hear that expression again, do you understand?" I had to share a lift down with them so I turned to my lawyer and said "fancy a drink to celebrate?" It was a great relief because I had done a great job for them but he didn't like certain members of the team and wanted to replace them with his favourites.

[Kelem]

Had a similar thing - it sucks big time - pleased you got an outcome

[rainman]

...however it has since transpired from further conversations that it was a much higher level decision from Sydney.

Ah, so more to come then... it's seldom a individually targeted strike if it comes from foreign shores. (Unless you've been a really bad boy).


Thanks guys, the beers are on me :niceone:

What a generous unemployed person you are! Meeting Room G? Just say when! :lol:

[geoffm]

Spread the word in the company - there are going to be other casualties and there is nothign like a poorly handled constructive dismissal to nail morale and get everyone reading the sits vac section seriously.
If it has really come from Australia, then no doubt, there will be more blood in the water. Your now ex boss could be one of those. He got off lightly, but it will be interesting to see if there is any long term fallout if higher up has a word with HR how they just dodged the bullet.
I had a similar thing in my first job, but more subtle and I was green and naive and left without a fight. I was ready to go anyway.
G

[YellowDog]

Just got back in from some musical throat cutting (Sweeny Todd).

A bit like working at said firm.

I suspect and hope that I was the sacrificial lamb.

It now transpires that there was an unexpected loss announced for one of the divisions and they thought they would address it by reducing their income (my short term business) and paying additional funds to get rid of me.

All perfectly logical.

[Skyryder]

Take a dictaphone in your pocket dont tell them till the end of the meeting ,let them put their foot in it ,then screw them over.If there is a settlement it will be alot bigger after they know you have recorded the meeting.

:stupid:

Nope wrong. Chances you will not be able to use the information in law as the person was unaware of being recorded. Do what I once did. If the going gets rough pull out the recorder turn on the record button and state date time and who is present at the meeting including yourself. Nothing else let the boss make the next move. Chances are you will be asked to turn of the device do not not under any circumstances do so and the meeting will in all likelehood be concluded. The trick here is that you have stated date time and who is present and your boss has asked you to turn off the device and you not doing so and if the meeting is concluded there may come a time when his/her reluctance will be used to your advantage.

Don't try and be sneaky by doing what I have suggested it makes you boss look sneaky and that he has something to hide. This is easier said than done but what have you got to lose..........only your job and that seems to be gone as it is. Don't try and be too smart......only smarter than you boss.

Skyryder


Seems this is a bit late. Anyway will keep it up for future reference.

Good luck etc.

[Skyryder]

You should be able to legally record any conversation you have with this person as you are a party to the conversation. I can legally record interviews over the phone without telling the other person because I am also taking part in the conversation - if I were taping it on behalf of someone else, that is illegal.


Nothing to stop you taping law says that without that persons knowledge you can not use it in a court of law. These are civil matters and not criminal. Different set of rules.

skyryder