Bike Cop must have been low on quota

[WarlockNZ]

I've done a search and found that i'm not the fist guy to get a ticket for lane splitting from officer number KSF016.

Yes, yes, I know it's called passing on the left and it's wrong, but if drivers obeyed the law and kept left, edit: at least i think thats the law .. lol, there would be a big space on the left of the white line and not on the right.

LOL... oh well, back to puddle jumping. :scooter:

[ManDownUnder]

Yes, yes, I know it's called passing on the left and it's wrong, but if drivers obeyed the law and kept right, there would be a big space on the left of the white line and not on the right.

Where and when?

[WarlockNZ]

Where and when?

Northwestern.. today ... 8:17am

[ManDownUnder]

Northwestern.. today ... 8:17am

Bugger dude - was that you I passed near Patikit this morning then. Black SV thou middle lane being very very sedate... well back from cars etc.

Me red RF with high mounted hard luggage. Would have been about ... 8:35 at a guess.

[WarlockNZ]

Bugger dude - was that you I passed near Patikit this morning then. Black SV thou middle lane being very very sedate... well back from cars etc.

Me red RF with high mounted hard luggage. Would have been about ... 8:35 at a guess.

Silver SV tho, yellow jacket, unless he pinged someone else ... LOL .. but thats where he got me.

[ManDownUnder]

Silver SV tho, yellow jacket, unless he pinged someone else ... LOL .. but thats where he got me.

oh ok - why?

Were you blazing along or just sidling through? I've split both ways for yonkies and been pulled twice (and spoken to only)... I don't think I'm the slowest either.

Maybe a style thing?

[The Pastor]

I hope i never get a ticket for lanesplitting, although i stop if i spot a bike cop.

[WarlockNZ]

oh ok - why?

Were you blazing along or just sidling through? I've split both ways for yonkies and been pulled twice (and spoken to only)... I don't think I'm the slowest either.

Maybe a style thing?

I was taking it really easy, what with the rain and all, i think he was going to let me off, but spotted my radar .. LOL ... he wrote radar down next to my name in his note book ... HA HA.

[Swoop]

Northwestern.. today ... 8:17am
Hmm. Saw him just after Patiki off-ramp about that time. No customers with him but appeared to be completing some paperwork after seeing a customer...

Bummer.

[Waxxa]

If you didnt know before you'll know now...lane-splitting is illegal and carries a $150 fine, I believe. WarlockNZ can confirm the fine price.

I was pulled over on the motorway a while back by a bike-cop and he gave me a warning that time, but you can only go down lines of traffic if that traffic has "stopped or stalled". If the traffic is moving, its a no-no!

Not to say that I dont lane-split my self, but I'm very wary of the cages.
And some of the speeds I've seen of bikers lane-splitting is crazy KBer's. Especially some dude on a 250, L-licence, zig-zagging at speed in peak hour up the Nothern Mway...he will get splattered.

[Finn]

I didn't buy a motorcycle just to sit in traffic with idiots. This is preposterous!

[JKWNZ]

Lane split passed mufti's this morning and last night no problems on the North Western. Didn't see them til its too late but they were OK with it... at 30-40kph though...

This morning there was some guy on a black 650+? filtering down the right of the right lane i.e. next to the concrete barrier!

Was that a marked car?

[discotex]

I've split past numbers of bike cops without problems in the past. Even past two who were riding two abreast like a cage.

May have just been lucky so far but either way I'll risk a fine every couple of years to keep out of the traffic.

[WarlockNZ]

lane-splitting is illegal and carries a $150 fine

It is indeed a $150 fine, no demerits tho.

and it's not lane splitting thats illegal, its being on the right hand side of the white line (thereby passing the car on the left) that is illegal.


I didn't buy a motorcycle just to sit in traffic with idiots. This is preposterous!

Why yes, yes it is ... LOL


This morning there was some guy on a black 650+? filtering down the right of the right lane i.e. next to the concrete barrier!

And this is completely Legal, dangerous as hell!!, but legal ...

All together now ... WHAT THE??

[90s]

It is indeed a $150 fine, no demerits tho.

and it's not lane splitting thats illegal, its being on the right hand side of the white line (thereby passing the car on the left) that is illegal.

When they are moving, that is.

[rainman]

And this is completely Legal, dangerous as hell!!, but legal ...

So the Burgman (?) that sometimes runs down the right hand side of the northern (right next to the cheesecutter) and lurches along unsteadily causing the cars in the right lane to jump sharply in front of me while I'm cautiously splitting to their left (phew, bit of a mouthful) is actually not breaking the law, but I am?

What makes riding to the right of the rh lane legal? Isn't it an emergency stopping zone or somesuch?

[Gremlin]

What makes riding to the right of the rh lane legal? Isn't it an emergency stopping zone or somesuch?
not sure about the shoulder in the middle, but as Warlock has said, its legal to overtake on the rhs of a vehicle within the same lane... it is not legal to overtake on the lhs of a vehicle.

Stupid law, I'll be fucked if I'm going to put myself in more danger... Make it safer by making drivers aware they are supposed to stay left in the lane (that is a law that carries demerits).

What other option do I have eh? Sit in traffic? Yeh... you'd be scraping me off the road in short order you moron. I have had so many cars almost take me out because they didn't brake in time and I have swerved onto lane markers to give them space.

I feel for ya Warlock. :angry2:

[Ixion]

..
What makes riding to the right of the rh lane legal? Isn't it an emergency stopping zone or somesuch?

There was much discussion about this, here , in the past. I am obliged to Mr Drum for his professional input.

It appears that , legally, there is no "to the right of the right lane". The right hand lane actually continues to the centre of the road (if there is no painted median, that's a special case). What happens is , that where there is a central divider or planted median, Transit paint a white line some centimetres into the right lane. The reason for this is that apparently cagers have strange psychological hangups (well, we all knew *that*), and if they have a solid barrier defining their right hand margin , they get all antsy and panicy, and imagine the lane is far narrower than it is. So the white line is to make them think that the barrier isn't there. Sounds weird, but that's what the trick cyclists say, and cagers *are* weird, after all.

So, legally , a road consists of a shoulder, one or more lanes, an optional central median or barrier, one or more lanes in the other direction, and another shoulder.There is no central shoulder (contradiction in terms, anyway) . Nor is there any central skinny "special lane". Nor is that bit an "emergency " zone - it's too narrow anyway.

So if you ride on that bit, you are either riding in the right hand part of the right most lane in your direction, or on the far side of the lane in the opposing direection. Both legal. The law makers just ignored bikes , again. Too narrow for cars to drive on, therefore no-one will.

But I don't want to be the one to argue this with Mr Plod.

[rainman]

There was much discussion about this, here , in the past. I am obliged to Mr Drum for his professional input.


Thanks, Ixion (and Mr Drum, by proxy) for your clear explanation. Although I am occasionally inclined to head down the non-existent rhs margin on the Northern (for example when it's pissing down and the cagers are worse than usual), the one time I did so it was so lumpy and full of crap that I have not returned.

Of course, I frequently ride along the painted white "island" thingy on the side of my on-ramp of choice (the newish one coming back from Grafton Rd - is this CMJ?) in order to get to the ramp signals, which is generally flat and crap free. As it's to the right of the lane I assume it also does not exist! :whistle:

[Ixion]

If the 'island' thingy is a painted median barrier, then yes, it does exist, and riding on it is technically illegal.

[WarlockNZ]

I would just like to know how any of us avoid getting a ticket while swing the leg over the bike and starting it up... LOL

This is just mental, I am actually writing a letter to the police at the moment, although the first draft is a bit too sarcastic .. :) .. if any one asks i'll post it here. LOL

My issue is that i have been told by police officers in uniform, that if i wanted to "go up the middle and lane split" i was ok, as long as I was slow and safe, my point is that I feel that the law, in this instance, has been over zealously enforced as i was slow (15km/h) and safe.

[Sanx]

If you didnt know before you'll know now...lane-splitting is illegal and carries a $150 fine, I believe. WarlockNZ can confirm the fine price.

Please don't take offence at this, but that's absolute shite. There is no offence called 'lane-splitting'. What's illegal - as has been mentioned just once or twice here before - is overtaking on the left, failing to indicate whilst overtaking, and about 8 other different offences a particularly over-zealous cop could ping you for should he so wish.


I was pulled over on the motorway a while back by a bike-cop and he gave me a warning that time, but you can only go down lines of traffic if that traffic has "stopped or stalled". If the traffic is moving, its a no-no!

Also complete crap.

[Waxxa]

This is 'no crap' Sanx.

The 'stopped or stalled' remark came from the cop, not from me! And the $150 fine is also not 'shite'. It's reality!

Now I'm not taking offence at your comments Sanx, the information I provided is my first hand experience and I dont put any comments or offer any advise etc on this site if it's 'shite' or I know it is blatant bullshit!

In both of your quotes and replies, you have got it wrong! As confirmed by other posts to this thread regarding the law and the fines. And as WarlockNZs' fine would indicate.

[pzkpfw]

The 'stopped or stalled' remark came from the cop, not from me! And the $150 fine is also not 'shite'. It's reality!

Now I'm not taking offence at your comments Sanx, the information I provided is my first hand experience and I dont put any comments or offer any advise etc on this site if it's 'shite' or I know it is blatant bullshit!

In both of your quotes and replies, you have got it wrong! As confirmed by other posts to this thread regarding the law and the fines. And as WarlockNZs' fine would indicate.

The cops don't make the laws, and they don't always enforce them right either. (Only human...)

Lane splitting is legal, on the technicality of passing on the right (a vehicle on your left) in the same lane.

As Sanx says, you have to get specifics correct.

[Waxxa]

:brick: I was passing the vehicle on the right (in the same lane) and cop pulls me over and says I cant do that.

So now its up to the interpretation of the individual cop(s) who see the law as THEY see it and enforce the laws as THEY see it. And who are we 'pleeps' to argue road-side. Bikers are being pulled over for this action and being fined for it!

Going by the posts, the road-code is either out of date or is wrong, the cops themselves have different interpretations about lane-splitting and us bikers who as Finn says "its proposterous" that we have to sit in traffic get caught out if spotted by a zealous cop while we merrily cruise down the lane(s). :confused:

[sosman]

ive heard you can lanesplit only if you pass the car on from the righthand side within the lane
but if you go over the centre line into the next lane then yr under taking that vehicle which is the no no
sorry dont if thats true or not

[discotex]

:brick: I was passing the vehicle on the right (in the same lane) and cop pulls me over and says I cant do that.


Just out of interest what does it say the offence is on the ticket?

If you were passing on the right within the same lane and that's what the ticket says you should challenge the ticket as you will likely win.

[BiK3RChiK]

:brick: I was passing the vehicle on the right (in the same lane) and cop pulls me over and says I cant do that.

So now its up to the interpretation of the individual cop(s) who see the law as THEY see it and enforce the laws as THEY see it. And who are we 'pleeps' to argue road-side. Bikers are being pulled over for this action and being fined for it!

Going by the posts, the road-code is either out of date or is wrong, the cops themselves have different interpretations about lane-splitting and us bikers who as Finn says "its proposterous" that we have to sit in traffic get caught out if spotted by a zealous cop while we merrily cruise down the lane(s). :confused:

Challenge that ticket, man! The road code reads that this is a LEGAL passing manoeuvre - The Official New Zealand Road Code for Motorcyclists 2007 Pages 44 & 45 quote "You can pass at a No Passing Line if: 1. You stay on your side of the solid yellow line, and 2. You can see 100 metres of clear road in front of you for the whole time while you are passing, and 3. The lane is wide enough for two vehicles.

Passing on a three-laned road - If there is no solid yellow line on your side of the centre line, you may use the centre lane to pass as long as: 1. there are no vehicles in that lane, and 2. you can see 100 metres of clear road in front of you for the whole time while you are passing. Don't use the centre lane to pass if there is an oncoming vehicle in the centre lane."

The last one is for passing lanes going in the opposite direction, but I thought I'd insert that one too... I'm sure I've read something specifically about lane-splitting more specific than the first one though so I'll go have another look....

HTH,
M

[Mort]

This has been on another post recently.... it seems the cops have different interpretations of the law.... I was stopped and advised that lanesplitting was OK.... I have also passed cop cars whilst lanesplitting - no problem.

Specific advice given to me was as follows :


Drive between Lane 2 and 3 where possible (counting from the left for the hard of thinking)
Full beam on
Right hand indicator on
Watch your speed - if the cops think you are driving with excess speed you will be ticketed even if you are within the speed limit.
If the traffic is moving at speed (say over 60kph) - don't lanesplit.
Right hand shoulder riding is illegal.
Left hand shoulder is Legal (But to be honest I doubt that and wouldnt do it anyway)



The main thing is to take it steady... watch for gaps left or right which cars can move in to (often without indicating). Also , watch out for trucks - you can get an angle on a car to get out of the way but trucks need a full lane and it halves you options for manouvre.If you ride to the conditions you have time to react to cars changing lanes etc....

Its a contentious issue - if the cop got out of bed the wrong side he could hand out tickets all day for this... I say... take it easy and if you are stopped make like a respectable chap, give the advice from a cop story.... save your derision for the "ticket robot" until he hands you the ticket...

Ride safe ...

[scumdog]

I've done a search and found that i'm not the fist guy to get a ticket for lane splitting from officer number KSF016.

Very likely an ex-MOT Traffic Cop with that number...

[homer]

not sure about the shoulder in the middle, but as Warlock has said, its legal to overtake on the rhs of a vehicle within the same lane... it is not legal to overtake on the lhs of a vehicle.

Stupid law, I'll be fucked if I'm going to put myself in more danger... Make it safer by making drivers aware they are supposed to stay left in the lane (that is a law that carries demerits).

What other option do I have eh? Sit in traffic? Yeh... you'd be scraping me off the road in short order you moron. I have had so many cars almost take me out because they didn't brake in time and I have swerved onto lane markers to give them space.

I feel for ya Warlock. :angry2:

That would sound correct
you just cant pass on the left

you can also pass on double yellow lines ,so long as you do not go over them at all

but if cars move out the way for you and there coming towards you you will get pung for impeeding traffic , this can be imposed for anything that causes another vehicle to have to give room to you

[MaxB]

Good advice. Thanks.

Do you mean ride with dipped beam in daylight? My full beam maybe a bit too bright for that even in daylight.



This has been on another post recently.... it seems the cops have different interpretations of the law.... I was stopped and advised that lanesplitting was OK.... I have also passed cop cars whilst lanesplitting - no problem.

Specific advice given to me was as follows :


Drive between Lane 2 and 3 where possible (counting from the left for the hard of thinking)
Full beam on
Right hand indicator on
Watch your speed - if the cops think you are driving with excess speed you will be ticketed even if you are within the speed limit.
If the traffic is moving at speed (say over 60kph) - don't lanesplit.
Right hand shoulder riding is illegal.
Left hand shoulder is Legal (But to be honest I doubt that and wouldnt do it anyway)



The main thing is to take it steady... watch for gaps left or right which cars can move in to (often without indicating). Also , watch out for trucks - you can get an angle on a car to get out of the way but trucks need a full lane and it halves you options for manouvre.If you ride to the conditions you have time to react to cars changing lanes etc....

Its a contentious issue - if the cop got out of bed the wrong side he could hand out tickets all day for this... I say... take it easy and if you are stopped make like a respectable chap, give the advice from a cop story.... save your derision for the "ticket robot" until he hands you the ticket...

Ride safe ...

[Mort]

Use full beam when lane splitting ......so car drivers can feel the heat on the back of their heads...
:apint:

[Waxxa]

Challenge that ticket, man! The road code reads that this is a LEGAL passing manoeuvre - The Official New Zealand Road Code for Motorcyclists 2007 Pages 44 & 45 quote "You can pass at a No Passing Line if: 1. You stay on your side of the solid yellow line, and 2. You can see 100 metres of clear road in front of you for the whole time while you are passing, and 3. The lane is wide enough for two vehicles.

Passing on a three-laned road - If there is no solid yellow line on your side of the centre line, you may use the centre lane to pass as long as: 1. there are no vehicles in that lane, and 2. you can see 100 metres of clear road in front of you for the whole time while you are passing. Don't use the centre lane to pass if there is an oncoming vehicle in the centre lane."

The last one is for passing lanes going in the opposite direction, but I thought I'd insert that one too... I'm sure I've read something specifically about lane-splitting more specific than the first one though so I'll go have another look....

HTH,
M

Challenge that ticket, man! [quote] I was lucky Bik3rchik that I played 'Mr. Niceguy' and the copper only gave me a warning.

But man, what a confusing issue. I still continue to lane-split in heavy traffic otherwise no point having a bike in Auckland. :scooter:

[Monkeyboy]

I was pulled over on the motorway a while back by a bike-cop and he gave me a warning that time, but you can only go down lines of traffic if that traffic has "stopped or stalled". If the traffic is moving, its a no-no!

This is what I always thought, if the traffic is stationary it isn't a problem. Going between traffic while it's moving is too risky, I just don't trust most car drivers, you're basically in someone's blind spot at any time during the manovere

[swbarnett]

This is what I always thought, if the traffic is stationary it isn't a problem. Going between traffic while it's moving is too risky, I just don't trust most car drivers, you're basically in someone's blind spot at any time during the manovere
I don't trust them either, I trust myself (to a point).

[discotex]

Use full beam when lane splitting ......so car drivers can feel the heat on the back of their heads...
:apint:

Yep I have scientfically *cough cough* tested this.

Splitting with lights dipped:
- Heaps of people change lanes 2-5 cars ahead of you. Often that just means rolling off the gas but it's a pain nonetheless.
- Fair number of cars pull out just as you're about to get requiring heavy braking.
- Hardly anyone makes room for you.

Splitting with lights on high-beam:
- Hardly anyone changes lanes anywhere up ahead. When they do it's miles away.
- Very occasional last minute lane jumpers. Usually people talking on phone or applying makeup at the same time. Or HSV/FPV/SUV drivers.
- Lanes often part like moses and the red sea. THIS PROVES PEOPLE SEE YOU IN THEIR MIRRORS


I'm not a total wanker so when I move back into the traffic flow I flick the lights back to dip at the same time I turn my right indicator off.

[swbarnett]

- Heaps of people change lanes 2-5 cars ahead of you. Often that just means rolling off the gas but it's a pain nonetheless.
- Fair number of cars pull out just as you're about to get requiring heavy braking.
- Hardly anyone makes room for you.
This is starting to sound really strange to me. I lane split every day on the Northern motorway and I seldom have any problems. I can't remember the last time anyone even thought about moving in to my "lane".

[McJim]

I did it for a year and a half on the Southern - I did endeavour to keep to the left of the white line - most of the cars actually heard me and moved right thereby creating enough space to complete each maneouvre - I indicated right the whole time I was passing cars like this. When I had to move to the right of the lane I generally did it into a space thereby not passing a car on it's left.

Never got pulled up, never got warned, passed cops on bikes, cops in marked cars and cops in mufti.

[WarlockNZ]

Lets just be clear people ... because you seem to be getting a little worked up.

The offence was for "passing on the left where prohibited" that was $150.

Yes, i was on the right hand side of the line, hence, passing on the left ..

There are only 3 instances when you a "legally" allowed to pass on the left.

1. when the vehicle on the right is stationary.
2. When the vehicle on the right is indicating a right hand turn.
3. annnddd CRAP!! ... i can't remember ... ha ha

and after the officer was so kind to tell me and everything ... LOL

When you are lansplitting between the fast and middle lane or between the slow and middle lane, you are ONLY legal if.

1. you are on the left hand side of the white line while you pass a car. (impossible I know as all Auckland drivers hug the right hand side white line)
or
2. if you are on the right hand side of the white line and the cars on your right are not moving.

I was on the wrong side of the line and traffic was in motion... woops ... thats a $150 fine for passing on the left.

It was a fair cop.. it really was.

Over the last few days i have tried to "Split" within the law, damn!! ... am I scaring the shit out of some cage drivers or what, Imagine passing a car with inches to spare .. scares the crap out of me at times as well.

But that's the law and sometimes the law is not only an arse, but over zealously enforced as well.

[danchop]

i think most cops turn a blind eye to bikes lane splitting as long as they sense or see your confident about doing so and your speed is appropiate to the conditions,i ride all day every day in the traffic here in auckland and have clocked 43000kms today in 11 months soley within the city borders as a courier,never had a ticket yet and yes at some stage every day i do illegal things but the secret is to be a smart thinker when riding,only thing im shitted about are these new red light cameras coming in cause they get bikes as well

[titirangi]

Bugger - where did you hear about red light cameras? Any idea where they will be installed?


i think most cops turn a blind eye to bikes lane splitting as long as they sense or see your confident about doing so and your speed is appropiate to the conditions,i ride all day every day in the traffic here in auckland and have clocked 43000kms today in 11 months soley within the city borders as a courier,never had a ticket yet and yes at some stage every day i do illegal things but the secret is to be a smart thinker when riding,only thing im shitted about are these new red light cameras coming in cause they get bikes as well

[danchop]

only in the cbd it was on closeup last night but with the advent of demerit points for red light running you stand to lose your licence over it,theyre operating now but only on trial and you dont get ticketed till may,at one spot(cnr symonds street and k-road they snapped over 400 in a day)

[Sanx]

1. when the vehicle on the right is stationary.
2. When the vehicle on the right is indicating a right hand turn.
3. annnddd CRAP!! ... i can't remember ... ha ha


3. When instructed to by a Police Officer, I believe.

[Hellraiser]

i think most cops turn a blind eye to bikes lane splitting as long as they sense or see your confident about doing so and your speed is appropiate to the conditions,i ride all day every day in the traffic here in auckland and have clocked 43000kms today in 11 months soley within the city borders as a courier,never had a ticket yet and yes at some stage every day i do illegal things but the secret is to be a smart thinker when riding,only thing im shitted about are these new red light cameras coming in cause they get bikes as well

It does help that most of the cops know who the motorcycle couriers are and they give us a lot more lee-way than they would Mr Joe Average Motorcycle Rider.

[Fub@r]

:brick: I was passing the vehicle on the right (in the same lane) and cop pulls me over and says I cant do that.


I've done that to a marked motorway patrol car on the NW, cop didn't care.

Had other examples where bikes have been queued up behind a pair of biker cops, all being too scared to test the law only to have the biker cops turn in their seat to wave us through.

They need to be consistent, granted if someone is being an idiot and doing high speed whilst splitting ping him, but to get pinged for doing 40-50kph safetly on a technicality is ridiculous

[scracha]

This is starting to sound really strange to me. I lane split every day on the Northern motorway and I seldom have any problems. I can't remember the last time anyone even thought about moving in to my "lane".

Likewise. I reckon some folk just can't "read" and anticipate what the cars ahead will do.

Put it this way, they'd have to quadruple the fines for filtering before I stopped doing it. It's one of the main reasons for riding a bike on the road. The risk of a few hundred bucks a year in fines is a small price to pay for not sitting behind some stinky bus in the hot sun for ages.

[Banesto John]

3. When instructed to by a Police Officer, I believe.

Nope. 3. When there are lanes marked on the road.

[igor]

I shall pass onto the Officer concerned the link to this thread, lets hold a sweepstake to see how long it takes him to get you again . :eek5:

and Scummy yes he is ex MOT but b4 that he was a county Mounty out of Auckland. great guy into bikes. :Oops:but u should no this. I could explain how the QIDs work but its just two exciting

prior to 92 in 89 the MOT swallowed up the County Mounties in ACC - Tamaki -Mt Albert - Napier and Inverbreedville (home of the 6 fingered banjo players.) So they got renumbered onto end of MOT numbers. Then there was 2 more MOT course of about 50 Gys/girls b4 Police takeover and all the chocky frogs QID's got tagged on the end, b4 the real Policeman haha started getting numbers again at around F160. :third:

[scumdog]

I shall pass onto the Officer concerned the link to this thread, lets hold a sweepstake to see how long it takes him to get you again . :eek5:

and Scummy yes he is ex MOT but b4 that he was a county Mounty out of Auckland. great guy into bikes. :Oops:but u should no this. I could explain how the QIDs work but its just two exciting

prior to 92 in 89 the MOT swallowed up the County Mounties in ACC - Tamaki -Mt Albert - Napier and Inverbreedville (home of the 6 fingered banjo players.) So they got renumbered onto end of MOT numbers. Then there was 2 more MOT course of about 50 Gys/girls b4 Police takeover and all the chocky frogs QID's got tagged on the end, b4 the real Policeman haha started getting numbers again at around F160. :third:


Ah, MOST of the Ernies I met before I was in the job were OK, - just the odd pedantic one gave the rest a bad name. (sound familiar??)

Thanks for the info - I'm too young to know all that stuff.:innocent:

[bert_is_evil]

Attached is a response from Inspector Ian James to a letter from Kiwirider mag re when you can and can't. I keep a printed copy in my jacket pocket just in case. Hopefully this isn't a repost or I'm in the kak with the repost police.

[Swoop]

only thing im shitted about are these new red light cameras coming in cause they get bikes as well
Why be concerned about these? Heavily fining AND demeriting drivers is a fu*king LONG overdue response.
Kiwi drivers need to be shot for red light running.
It is fu*king dangerous.

only in the cbd it was on closeup last night but with the advent of demerit points for red light running you stand to lose your licence over it,theyre operating now but only on trial and you dont get ticketed till may
Not soon enough. Do it NOW.

[swbarnett]

Why be concerned about these? Heavily fining AND demeriting drivers is a fu*king LONG overdue response.
Kiwi drivers need to be shot for red light running.
It is fu*king dangerous.
It's extremely arrogant and counter-productive to reducing congestion but considering how often it happens in the Auckland CBD is it really that dangerous? How often do vehicles actually connect?

The problem with heavy demerits and fines is that you have to fit the punishment to the crime. Going three quarters of the way to losing your license for one occurrence is a bit steep.

[WarlockNZ]

I'm just going to step in here and stop this thread hijack.

This is not about red light camera's, if you want to talk about that, go and start a red light camera thread, I'll chime in with my 2 cents if you do.

in the mean time.


I shall pass onto the Officer concerned the link to this thread, lets hold a sweepstake to see how long it takes him to get you again . :eek5::

I'm sure he already knows about it, he is a member of the site after all :)

Let's see, what's the action on that sweepstake??, if you give me some good odds, I could be in .. LOL

[Swoop]

It's extremely arrogant and counter-productive to reducing congestion but considering how often it happens in the Auckland CBD is it really that dangerous? How often do vehicles actually connect?
Try asking that to someone who has been t-boned by one of these retards who run the red.
Red-light running isn't about "traffic congestion", it is more centered on the "I'm king of the road - fuck everyone else" mentality.

The problem with heavy demerits and fines is that you have to fit the punishment to the crime. Going three quarters of the way to losing your license for one occurrence is a bit steep.
It looks fine to me. If people are not paying attention to a simple thing like a traffic light, how much attention are they giving to other road users? Take their licence away!!!

[swbarnett]

Try asking that to someone who has been t-boned by one of these retards who run the red.
This does not mean that running a red light has a high probability of turning into an accident. Don't get me wrong, I hate red light runners too. I just don't think they deserve to be removed from the road until they are proven to be recidivist offenders.


Red-light running isn't about "traffic congestion", it is more centered on the "I'm king of the road - fuck everyone else" mentality.
Or it could simply be that people know there's about 2 seconds on most intersections where everyone has the red and they think they can take advantage of this. Resynchronise the lights and most of the red light running will go away (after a few collisions admittedly).


It looks fine to me. If people are not paying attention to a simple thing like a traffic light, how much attention are they giving to other road users? Take their licence away!!!
Are you suggesting that one momentary lapse of concentration makes a person unfit to drive? Hell, we better close the roads, nobody will be allowed to drive.

We have to make some allowance for human falability.

[Fub@r]

It's extremely arrogant and counter-productive to reducing congestion but considering how often it happens in the Auckland CBD is it really that dangerous? How often do vehicles actually connect?

The problem with heavy demerits and fines is that you have to fit the punishment to the crime. Going three quarters of the way to losing your license for one occurrence is a bit steep.


Sorry Warlock, my 2 cents:

About once a week on average I have near misses with red light runners, and no I don't race off from the lights on the green.......I ride a Hyosung, so its not physically possible :)

In particular is the Fanshawe and Halsey St intersection, everyone runs the turning signal from the city side turning in to Halsey St Viaduct side. It has improved recently as I've noticed the cops pinging quite a few of them lately as they get pulled over right outside my office.

Also red light running is defined as the light turning red before you enter in to the intersection ie: cross the lane line. I had this argument with a cop over Christmas where he was 100m behind me and he said I ran a light. So I pointed out to him I had already entered the intersection before it changed so therefore was ok.....hence no ticket.

Also there is a delay between one light going red and the other going green. If you have the green and start across an intersection and a bus or car comes flying through they deserve to get nailed, hell hit them with Dangerous Driving infringment!

[Ixion]

Are you suggesting that one momentary lapse of concentration makes a person unfit to drive? Hell, we better close the roads, nobody will be allowed to drive.

We have to make some allowance for human falability.

Nothing to do with lapse of concentration. I see this all the time. They actually accelerate to try to run the light.

I'll come up to a light, oh red, OK, stop, easy peasy, 5 seconds later the dick behind me roars through the red light. I can see him floor it when the light changes.

[ManDownUnder]

Nothing to do with lapse of concentration. I see this all the time. They actually accelerate to try to run the light.

Hell yes!

Sit at the top of the NW motorway any weeknight and watch them do it. Cops would make a fortune sitting there ticketing car after car. You can hear them gas it as soon as there's a hint of orange in the signal....

[jrandom]

Also red light running is defined as the light turning red before you enter in to the intersection...

Bollocks.

Red light running is defined as failing to observe the rule that a yellow light means 'stop if it is safe to do so'.

If you enter an intersection on a yellow light when you could have stopped safely, you're ticketable.

[Fub@r]

Bollocks.

Red light running is defined as failing to observe the rule that a yellow light means 'stop if it is safe to do so'.

If you enter an intersection on a yellow light when you could have stopped safely, you're ticketable.


Watched an NZ doco a few years ago, cops had setup a video camera of an intersection and were reviewing the tape. The only people that were sent tickets were people that had crossed the lane line when the light was red. They were sitting there for ages going frame by frame trying to determine it on some cars.

I suppose its easier to issue a ticket on that basis than to argue who's opion is the right one as to whether you could've stopped safetly or not

[madandy]

Bollocks.

Red light running is defined as failing to observe the rule that a yellow light means 'stop if it is safe to do so'.

If you enter an intersection on a yellow light when you could have stopped safely, you're ticketable.

F'n oath.
Red light runners are becomming more prevalent in TGA too! I see plenty when I drive or ride through town & used to see plenty more when I lived across town & had to cross several light controlled intersection riding to & from work.
I'd see 2-3 every day now - passing through only one set of traffic lights, twice a day. They control a pedestrian crossing for school children on SH2 in Bethlehem...
Fuckers.

[jrandom]

I suppose its easier to issue a ticket on that basis than to argue who's opion is the right one as to whether you could've stopped safetly or not

I'm sure that's the case, yes.

My point was, of course, that a sufficiently-motivated cop can still justifiably ticket someone, in certain cases, if they cross the line before the light turns red.

Although I imagine that a sufficiently-motivated defendant wouldn't have much trouble getting out of such a ticket, and such motivation is undoubtedly going to grow substantially once the demerit points associated with red light running increase.

[swbarnett]

Nothing to do with lapse of concentration. I see this all the time. They actually accelerate to try to run the light.

I'll come up to a light, oh red, OK, stop, easy peasy, 5 seconds later the dick behind me roars through the red light. I can see him floor it when the light changes.
In cases like you describe I agree with you, throw the book at them. What concerns me is that the cases which are just a lapse of concentration are going to get lumped in with these. We need some way of distinguishing the two. Instead of a blanket 75 demerit points it needs to be a maximum and the cop can award a lower number for the lesser offence.

[Swoop]

Are you suggesting that one momentary lapse of concentration makes a person unfit to drive? Hell, we better close the roads, nobody will be allowed to drive.
We have to make some allowance for human falability.
These people probably have done this before... a few times - in fact.
The "oops, made a mistake" runner should be intelligent enough to realise he/she has done wrong and will not do that ever again.
Recidivist RL runners start somewhere. They all take the same risk.
If someone gets caught on their first offence (they will always trot that excuse out to the officer)- too fu*king bad.
Do the crime - do the time.

[swbarnett]

If someone gets caught on their first offence (they will always trot that excuse out to the officer)- too fu*king bad.
This only creates bitterness and a disrespect for the law. Each case must be treated on it's own merits.


Do the crime - do the time.
My point exactly. The trouble is that often the time is too long for the crime actually committed.

[scumdog]

This
Are you suggesting that one momentary lapse of concentration makes a person unfit to drive? Hell, we better close the roads, nobody will be allowed to drive.

We have to make some allowance for human falability.

Too often it's a LOT of concentration of the wrong kind.

First car shoots through on the last glimmer of the orange.

And then two or sometimes three more see that and (like sheep) think "If I boot it I'll be able to sneak through behind the car on front, after all HE got through o.k..:wacko:

Even though the last car has seen the red light 30 metres before he got there....

Morons.

[swbarnett]

Too often it's a LOT of concentration of the wrong kind.

First car shoots through on the last glimmer of the orange.

And then two or sometimes three more see that and (like sheep) think "If I boot it I'll be able to sneak through behind the car on front, after all HE got through o.k..:wacko:

Even though the last car has seen the red light 30 metres before he got there....

Morons.
Definitely. The problem I have is with the severity that's being put on this. I don't think it's bad enough to nearly take people off the road for.

[Swoop]

Definitely. The problem I have is with the severity that's being put on this. I don't think it's bad enough to nearly take people off the road for.
Well if it is "that severe" then people will take more care, not do stupid things and therefore remove the threat of losing their licence.
Simple really.

[swbarnett]

Well if it is "that severe" then people will take more care, not do stupid things and therefore remove the threat of losing their licence.
Simple really.
That assumes that every driver is aware of every piece of draconian crap that's regurgitated from the bowls of our illustrious leaders and that they are 100% vigilant 100% of the time. Every driver/rider has moments of poor concentration from time to time that usually go unnoticed because they happen in a way that is not dangerous. Occasionally this will happen in the wrong place at the wrong time. No amount of retribution is going to do anything to correct this.

And what about the poor learner rider that happens on a petrol spill just short of the intersection? Happened to me. The only way out was to wind open the throttle and scream through the intersection horn blaring. And, yes, without the horn I would've been a hood ornament. Should I loose my license because of a slippery road? I learnt my lesson and from that day I brake a tad earlier for intersections and take more notice of the road surface.

People are fallible. Using a sledge hammer to try and wedge in unrealistic ideals simply doesn't work.

[Swoop]

Words.
Drive/ride to the conditions.
Amber or red lights are conditions.

[swbarnett]

Drive/ride to the conditions.
Amber or red lights are conditions.
Agreed.

However, this debate is about how the law reacts to someone that who, without malice or forethought, commits an error of judgement that is well within the realms of human fallibility This type of behaviour is not correctable as there's nothing to correct.

[Swoop]

However, this debate is about how the law reacts to someone that who, without malice or forethought, commits an error of judgement that is well within the realms of human fallibility This type of behaviour is not correctable as there's nothing to correct.
You are not reading other posts where it is plainly explained that drivers deliberately accellerate when they see an amber or red light. The discussion is regarding runners. Period. Intended or accidental. The driver has plainly placed his/her self and innocent others, in danger.

I am reading your posts' as "I am totally happy with anyone running red lights" even though you are trying to say "unfairness of demerits".
The law may be written to allow someone to lose their licence from this. So be it. If people don't like it they can vote for a different electorate representative. Until then, too bad.

A person earns a drivers licence, and is appreciative of the "rules of the road" when they do so.
If a persons behaviour is "not correctable" - as you put it, then quite frankly they do not deserve that privilege of joining the rest of society on the roads.

[swbarnett]

You are not reading other posts where it is plainly explained that drivers deliberately accellerate when they see an amber or red light. The discussion is regarding runners. Period. Intended or accidental. The driver has plainly placed his/her self and innocent others, in danger.
I have read all the posts. What I'm trying to say is that intentionally and accidentally going through a red light are not the same thing. While I accept that both deserve a ticket I don't believe that they should be treated the same. They are quite different.

I suppose the root of our disagreement is that I'd rather leave one murderer on the street than jail an innocent. Would I be correct in assuming that you would rather jail an innocent than leave one murderer free?


I am reading your posts' as "I am totally happy with anyone running red lights" even though you are trying to say "unfairness of demerits".
Believe me, I'm as pissed off with deliberate red light running as you are. Anybody that knowingly runs a red should be hung out to dry.


A person earns a drivers licence, and is appreciative of the "rules of the road" when they do so.
If a persons behaviour is "not correctable" - as you put it, then quite frankly they do not deserve that privilege of joining the rest of society on the roads.
The uncorrectable behaviour that I'm talking about is the same behaviour that leads to lapses of concentration in everybody, even you. It is just that some are unfortunate to have that lapse of concentration happen at a bad time. This is just part of being human. We are not robots and I resent the fact that the lawmakers seem to believe that we are.

[Blossom]

Especially some dude on a 250, L-licence, zig-zagging at speed in peak hour up the Nothern Mway...he will get splattered.
I think I know who this was if the bike was a silver 250 and yes he has stopped lane splitting now as a week or two ago he got binned by a car changing lanes which cut him off whilst lane splitting, wrote the 250 off but escaped unharmed. :doh: I think he has learnt his lesson.

[scumdog]

I have read all the posts. What I'm trying to say is that intentionally and accidentally going through a red light are not the same thing. While I accept that both deserve a ticket I don't believe that they should be treated the same. They are quite different.

Sort of like accidently being over the limit after drinking and getting caught driving and deliberately and intentionally driving drunk??

I'm sure the person who gets hit by the drunk drivier will appreciate the difference...

[swbarnett]

Sort of like accidently being over the limit after drinking and getting caught driving and deliberately and intentionally driving drunk??

I'm sure the person who gets hit by the drunk drivier will appreciate the difference...
Well, if someone gets caught over the limit and is genuinely of the "oh shit, I'll cut down on how many drinks I have before driving" attitude then I'd definitely treat them with more leniency than someone with the "I know I'm pissed and I'm going to drive anyway" attitude.

It's about treating every case on it's own merits and not treating every naughty boy like they're Adolf Hitler.

[scumdog]

Well, if someone gets caught over the limit and is genuinely of the "oh shit, I'll cut down on how many drinks I have before driving" attitude then I'd definitely treat them with more leniency than someone with the "I know I'm pissed and I'm going to drive anyway" attitude.

It's about treating every case on it's own merits and not treating every naughty boy like they're Adolf Hitler.


I doubt YOU will get the chance to treat the 1st drink drivers who had 'been drinking but shit didn't think I was over the limit' with leniency.

But the JUDGE doesn't care whether they knew they were pissed and drove anyway or just didn't realise they were over the limit.

(BTW Given the chance 99% would say they were in the second catagory if they thought they would get a lighter sentence, hence judges tend to be sceptic about the above explanation).

[swbarnett]

I doubt YOU will get the chance to treat the 1st drink drivers who had 'been drinking but shit didn't think I was over the limit' with leniency.

But the JUDGE doesn't care whether they knew they were pissed and drove anyway or just didn't realise they were over the limit.

(BTW Given the chance 99% would say they were in the second catagory if they thought they would get a lighter sentence, hence judges tend to be sceptic about the above explanation).
Therein lies the problem. Because it's perceived that everyone is just out for themselves even the relatively innocent get tarred along with the deliberately guilty. There is far too much cynicism.

I'd like to think that first time offenders are treated more leniently than recidivists. But that's probably a bit optimistic. (There I go being a cynic myself).

[discotex]

Therein lies the problem. Because it's perceived that everyone is just out for themselves even the relatively innocent get tarred along with the deliberately guilty. There is far too much cynicism.

Isn't that why no single offence give enough demerits to lose your licence? Sure the points are heavy but maybe that'll make you think twice about running red lights when you've already loaded up on speeding tickets.



I'd like to think that first time offenders are treated more leniently than recidivists. But that's probably a bit optimistic. (There I go being a cynic myself).

Surely if you are of the "whoops I accidentally ran a red" camp you'll be fine as you will already have 0 demerit points. On the other hand if you habitually flout the laws that incur demerit points you will lose your licence.

The same goes with driving over the limit. Clearly a judge will be more lenient on someone with who is 1mcg over the limit than someone 50mcg.

Unfortunately the scale between first time and 10th offence seems a bit out of whack. Getting to 10th time without prison time (or a 6 month stay in rehab) and lifetime loss of licence I just don't understand.

[BANZAI]

Brind the old thread back.

Just recently I get pulled over by same cop, officer# KSF016 who rides Honda.

Reason was lane splitting and then doing 100kmph on port offramp with L-plate...(Most of my mates misreaded this, I wasnt doing lane splitting in 100k, I did 100k on offramp coz road was clear)

He must have followed me sometime and waiting for me todo something stupid...

Argg $550 fines total! $400 for breaching L condition and $150 for not indicating properly....

[Ixion]

Only one bikie cop I know of reactionary enough to still be riding the old ST1100. Did he have a beard?

[BANZAI]

Only one bikie cop I know of reactionary enough to still be riding the old ST1100. Did he have a beard?

Hmm maybe? I can't really remember coz I was panicked at that time lol

He was old kiwi guy with glasses I think. He didnt have any accent so he must be kiwi(I mean I don't know wat kiwi accent suppose tobe, but he didnt sounds like British or American or Australian, so...) but probly he had beard...

[NOMIS]

So the Burgman (?) that sometimes runs down the right hand side of the northern (right next to the cheesecutter) and lurches along unsteadily causing the cars in the right lane to jump sharply in front of me while I'm cautiously splitting to their left (phew, bit of a mouthful) is actually not breaking the law, but I am?

What makes riding to the right of the rh lane legal? Isn't it an emergency stopping zone or somesuch?

Are u talking about that bright yellow prick??

[caseye]

The way Aucklanders drive is atrocious, our So Called Motorways might as well be car parks morning and night.To get to where one is going on a bike, requires na demands a certain skill in lane splitting.
The individual Police person will decide on the day whether or not they are going to stop you and write you up. Course if they didnt see your plate and were two hundred cars back who's going to stop?

[McJim]

Amazing, I did 26 km Southern Motorway to work every day and 26km back for more than a year. always splitting, never got stopped.

Always endeavoured to be between the line and the car on my left while indicating right (to signify that I was overtaking the car on my left not the car on my right).

Once had a big green Falcon try to block me from the right on the Newmarket section - I wasn't even in his lane but he swept across to close me down. I pulled back a bit, he eased off back to the middle of his lane, I went to go down his left, he veered to his left while I quickly gunned it and flicked down his right hand side. The car in front of him saew the whole thing and moved out of the way to give me a clear run away from the danger.
Not all cagers are pricks eh? Meanwhile the Green Falcon (guy had a neck brace on too - must have been a real fuckwit driver) swerved to try and knock me off the fooking bridge. Maniac.

[boomer]

I was taking it really easy, what with the rain and all, i think he was going to let me off, but spotted my radar .. LOL ... he wrote radar down next to my name in his note book ... HA HA.

you should have pulled your black book out, wrote the time, place and his number and next to it.. "WANKER'


:D

[boomer]

Once had a big green Falcon try to block me from the right on the Newmarket section - I wasn't even in his lane but he swept across to close me down. I pulled back a bit, he eased off back to the middle of his lane, I went to go down his left, he veered to his left while I quickly gunned it and flicked down his right hand side. The car in front of him saew the whole thing and moved out of the way to give me a clear run away from the danger.
Not all cagers are pricks eh? Meanwhile the Green Falcon (guy had a neck brace on too - must have been a real fuckwit driver) swerved to try and knock me off the fooking bridge. Maniac.


did you stop and stab him in the eye?

[Irontusk]

Even if you're lane splitting to the left of the white line, a cop can do you for careless use, just cause he feels like it, and this is what you'll get a ticket for if you explain where you were in which lane (if you've been pulled over for lane splitting, the cop is pretty much just after revenue, unless you're going way too fast)

I havn't had one good experience with a traffic cop, even when I've been stopped for nothing at all, even accused of torching a car.

[Clockwork]

Amazing, I did 26 km Southern Motorway to work every day and 26km back for more than a year. always splitting, never got stopped.

Always endeavoured to be between the line and the car on my left while indicating right (to signify that I was overtaking the car on my left not the car on my right).

Once had a big green Falcon try to block me from the right on the Newmarket section - I wasn't even in his lane but he swept across to close me down. I pulled back a bit, he eased off back to the middle of his lane, I went to go down his left, he veered to his left while I quickly gunned it and flicked down his right hand side. The car in front of him saew the whole thing and moved out of the way to give me a clear run away from the danger.
Not all cagers are pricks eh? Meanwhile the Green Falcon (guy had a neck brace on too - must have been a real fuckwit driver) swerved to try and knock me off the fooking bridge. Maniac.

Once had a guy in the right lane move left to block me from splitting. I moved into the left lane behind the car next to him and passed both cars down the shoulder before moving back into lane 1a in front of him. I was out of order I know but I wasn't going to give him the satisfaction of stopping me. The best part was, as he realised I'd Check-mated him... he tootled melodiously in frustration. :laugh::laugh:

I would add that it was in heavy congestion and the traffic was moving very slowly.

[WarlockNZ]

Here's the thing. i was pulled over in the rain and given my ticket ... i couldn't read the badge number (it has to be on the ticket) so i asked him to write it down again ...

always get a badge number!! .. did he have a beard?? .. well he did then, but a razor will change that, the badge number doesn't change.

I'm actually interested to know if this officer is just doing his job, and lets be honest here, we are breaking the law by passing on the left, or ... if he is being an arsehole to bikers.

the reason I ask is that we only get pulled over by bike cops ... we have all split past a cop car and nothing has happened. (unless someone has been ? .. LOL )

As road users, we have to obey the laws of the road, we, as bikers in auckland (and other places) .. Lane split, this action necessitates that we occasionally, "pass on the left while prohibited".

My issue is not so much that we get pinged for it, but that the law in question seems to be sporadically enforced, surely a law that catered for motorway traffic (read lane-splitting in rush hour) would be better, maybe something Bronz could think about ???

I didn't buy a bike to sit in traffic after all ... ha ha .. that being said, i will continue to "split", because as far as I'm concerned, I'm a damn sight safer while I'm moving and the thought of being squashed between two cars scares the crap out of me.

[Irontusk]

A guy I work with says he sees bikers get stopped by cop cars all the time.. but do I trust him? He's just pissed off cause his wife won't let him buy a bike :bleh: He's convinced it's illegal at all times.. road code says otherwise.

[Jdogg]

I think that you may find that the mufti cars that you pass and do nothing about your splitting , will mostly likely be detectives, so traffic issues don't rate high on their radar(excuse the pun) :2guns: and probably think that it is beneath them to pull you up, (unless it is an inconvenience to them) hence the hit and miss scenario.

rule of thumb , if they have a uniform on they are beat/traffic 50 and will mostly likely be the ones to ping you :Police:...no uniform off duty/ detectives less likely to ping you(maybe)

[gtr boy]

I didn't buy a motorcycle just to sit in traffic with idiots. This is preposterous!
so true so true,love riding by while there all sittin g in there cars fuming hahahahah