FFS! This is just ridiculous! MUST READ - OPINIONS PLEASE

[Timaa]

apparently on the news a few nights ago a man is being taken to court after flicking his sons ear:Pokey: as punishment for being rude.

does this not strike you as outrageous?

:Oi:its not like he hit the kid or abused him, let alone assaulted him

WTF!!!!

thoughts opinions welcome, flaming and preaching NOT!!!:spanking:

Tim

ps: if someone has a link can they post it cause im too lazy. lol:2thumbsup

[Bikernereid]

Completely insane!! The reason that SOME kids are so bloody unruley these days is lack of discipline in the home and at school.

A flick on the ear is nothing and certainly does not constitute child abuse!! When are we going to stop letting governments act like nannies and let the parents take responbsibility for raising thier own children using thier own ethics, moral and values?


apparently on the news a few nights ago a man is being taken to court after flicking his sons ear:Pokey: as punishment for being rude.

does this not strike you as outrageous?

:Oi:its not like he hit the kid or abused him, let alone assaulted him

WTF!!!!

thoughts opinions welcome, flaming and preaching NOT!!!:spanking:

Tim

ps: if someone has a link can they post it cause im too lazy. lol:2thumbsup

[Bren]

Yeah...its frikkin ridiculous....if ya gonna go to court for flickin yer kids ear then why not just go the whole hog and bash the little shits senseless.....
.....worked for me as a kid!:lol:








....bloody PC Bullshit is ruining this country

[Bikernereid]

+1

I was a bloody nightmare for my parents as a teenager and I would hate to be a parent with an adolescent like me now!! And if anyone says that grounding children works then think again.

We has a progression of punishments depending on what we had done wrong. Believe me one of them I only got once and learnt not to cross that line again. Punishments were always dished out with a discussion regarding what we had done wrong and why it was wrong. I hasn't done me any harm and I am not emotionally, physically or psychologically scared as a result of it.


Yeah...its frikkin ridiculous....if ya gonna go to court for flickin yer kids ear then why not just go the whole hog and bash the little shits senseless.....
.....worked for me as a kid!:lol:

[MIXONE]

Fuck it .Might as well just kill them.At least then there is no witness:bash:

[Badger8]

Apparently someone (grandmother, or uncle, depending on which version you hear) got taken to court for yanking a kid backward who was about to walk in front of a car.
WTF were they supposed to do, let the idiot get killed? that'd be okay by Aunty Helen?
Whether it's true or not i dont know, but i DO know there's far too many cases around of completely justified minor things landing parents who give a stuff in court. THIS is why we have so many youth associated problems. If all we can do is say "no no, dont do that little jimmy", then they're gonna grow up doing whatever the hell they want, knowing full well there's nothing we can do to stop them. Look at the freakin punks out there pretending to be gansters, tagging everything in sight, beating up random people, abusing old ladies, and just making a fuckin nuisance of themselves. What the hell are these kids gonna grow up to be like? :angry2: Fuck i hate to think...

*Breathe* Rant over...

[Bikernereid]

I hate to say it but there will be more of these kids who grow up into crims and end up in prison which means that there is going to be more work for people like me!!


Apparently someone (grandmother, or uncle, depending on which version you hear) got taken to court for yanking a kid backward who was about to walk in front of a car.
WTF were they supposed to do, let the idiot get killed? that'd be okay by Aunty Helen?
Whether it's true or not i dont know, but i DO know there's far too many cases around of completely justified minor things landing parents who give a stuff in court. THIS is why we have so many youth associated problems. If all we can do is say "no no, dont do that little jimmy", then they're gonna grow up doing whatever the hell they want, knowing full well there's nothing we can do to stop them. Look at the freakin punks out there pretending to be gansters, tagging everything in sight, beating up random people, abusing old ladies, and just making a fuckin nuisance of themselves. What the hell are these kids gonna grow up to be like? :angry2: Fuck i hate to think...

*Breathe* Rant over...

[Timaa]

and imagine what the cops would have said if they had let the kid walk in front of the car? cant seem to do anything right anymore. i say good on the guy for flicking the ear, there should be a reasonable distinction between abuse and parental dicipline. granted i dont think anyone other than parents has any right at all to punish or dicipline. but still. the old horse ( aunty helen ) can go get a make over for all i care, OH WAIT, she already did and still looks like a horse. lol. i say move to aussie where the govt actually apologises if they do something wrong. albeit several hundred years later. lol

[Timaa]

oh and it was the cops choice to arrest the man and charge him in the first instance...

[James Deuce]

albeit several hundred years later. lol

There were still organised Aborigine hunts in the 1960s.

The apology isn't for past wrongs.

The ear flick thing is old news. This isn't the first instance of people being prosecuted for disciplining children in public since the "Anti-Smacking" bill was passed, and as for the comments about the Police "choosing" to prosecute, when are you idiots (harsh, but for goodness sake people!) going to understand that the Police enforce laws that are passed by people you hand a mandate to at election time? They don't make them up on the spot, and in the instance of a criminal act they don't get to exercise a great deal of discretion, certainly nowhere near as much as for a traffic offense.

[Jiminy]

as for the comments about the Police "choosing" to prosecute, when are you idiots (harsh, but for goodness sake people!) going to understand that the Police enforce laws that are passed by people you hand a mandate to at election time? They don't make them up on the spot, and in the instance of a criminal act they don't get to exercise a great deal of discretion, certainly nowhere near as much as for a traffic offense.

Ahem, pardon a non New Zealander here, but your comment implies that we have a choice at election time. Sure, there are a few choices, but I personally still struggle to see a GOOD choice to vote for.

Btw, when will New Zealand be a democracy and the people have a right of say that goes beyond a selection of short-sighted political parties? (Jiminy goes hiding :chase::girlfight:)

[Jiminy]

It reminds me of an old story that happened in a local supermarket back in Europe. Bear with me for a minute.

Mom and Kiddy go to the supermarket, fill in their trolley, then join a queue at the counter. Kiddy decides that it's fun to repeatedly push the trolley in the legs of the lady in front. The lady asks nicely Kiddy to stop, then again, then again, then asks Mom to do something. Mom's reply goes along the line of "let the kid be, you shouldn't traumatize him, you're being unreasonable".

Here comes a punk teenager, army boots and green straight hair (description might vary) sitting in the queue right behind Mom and Kiddy. He calmly takes the yoghurt he was about to buy, opens it, and empties it at the top of Mom's head. When Mom turns around speechless, his says something like "nobody dared to traumatize me when I was a kid". :lol:

One of my friends witnessed the scene. I wish I would have seen it :)

PC is going waaaaaaaayyyy too far me think!

[pete376403]

Why does everyone lame "auntie Helen" for this piece of shit legislation. Green MP Sue bradford owns this one. When the Green party come canvasing for your vote this year, let them know what you think of both bradford and the bill.
(and it's not really stopping kids from being abused to death, is it?)

[Donor]

Why does everyone lame "auntie Helen" for this piece of shit legislation. Green MP Sue bradford owns this one. When the Green party come canvasing for your vote this year, let them know what you think of both bradford and the bill.
(and it's not really stopping kids from being abused to death, is it?)

Cos Hell-in told her mob of uber puppets to vote it in.

Something about labour being shit house and not looking likely to get another session of legislation making after this year without fellating other parties...

[mrchips]

God help us all, might as well install iron bars over the windows now ! 5 year olds up my street ask for fags + tell me to f..ck off already...... little shits.

I won't be having kids as i don't appreciate being told how to run my household thanks or having other little shits influence my kids & not being able to do anything about it.

That is all.

cheers

[James Deuce]

Ahem, pardon a non New Zealander here, but your comment implies that we have a choice at election time. Sure, there are a few choices, but I personally still struggle to see a GOOD choice to vote for.

Btw, when will New Zealand be a democracy and the people have a right of say that goes beyond a selection of short-sighted political parties? (Jiminy goes hiding :chase::girlfight:)

When you learn how to use MMP to your advantage. When Politics is viewed as a good line of honest work to get into. When good people start putting themselves forward and don't get shot down for being Maori, or rich, or gay, or an "immigrant". But you and they never will and you'll vote FPP back in given the first chance and remove even more choice.

STV would've been a better bet.

Now are you going to do something about it? Will you set fire to Crown property and break windows if the chap is convicted.

Or did the bleat in here give you the outlet you were looking for?

[Okey Dokey]

When this law was still to be passed, we were assured that average kiwi moms and dads would not be prosecuted. That the law would only impact on serious cases of abuse etc etc. Like everyone else, the only cases I've heard about thus far involve parents trying to keep kids from becoming fatal traffic statistics, using mild rebukes such as an ear flick or arm grab.

Anyone surprised that the politicians have lied to the public yet again?

Or are they just so thick they don't know the consequences of the laws they write and pass?

I can't site the actual cases from memory, but I believe a couple kiddies have been beaten to death since this law came into force, so it hasn't actually worked at all IMHO.

[HRT]

The kid deserved more than a flick on the ear by the sounds of it anyway. Wasn't there a couple of kids and one had just been hurt fairly badly, the other kid was being a little shit while the other one was being treated for injury so the dad flicked his ear and told him to bugger off?

As for saying the cops are only enforcing the laws made, surely (as bad as this sounds) they would have the choice to ignore something as stupid as this situation?

[Badger8]

Why does everyone lame "auntie Helen" for this piece of shit legislation. Green MP Sue bradford owns this one. When the Green party come canvasing for your vote this year, let them know what you think of both bradford and the bill.
(and it's not really stopping kids from being abused to death, is it?)

Indeed, Bradford initiated and pushed it, but would never have got in without Uncle Helen and his cronies votin for it.
Dont get me started on those fuckin tree huggin hippies that call themselves the green party.

And of course this law wont stop kids getting the bash. The real bad stuff was illegal before, and didnt stop it happening. Even when they get brought up on charges, they all too often walk coz the family rallies around and noone talks despite the fact the THE KID IS DEAD!!!! WTF?!?!:angry2:
All this legislation does is make criminals out of parents who are trying to bring their kids up to be human ebings who will function in society instead of the frickin little shits they're turning into nowadays.

[Badger8]

As for saying the cops are only enforcing the laws made, surely (as bad as this sounds) they would have the choice to ignore something as stupid as this situation?

Of course the cops have discretion in what they enforce. Otherwise there'd be a lot more of us without licenses :shifty:

[ynot slow]

Sue (I'm an angel) Bradford stated at the time the bill was put forward it was only going to effect the part of reasonable force excuse people used when beating kids,i.e slap ok,but belting with a hose,cane etc would not be tolerated.

It unfortunately is what happens with MMP,both parties have insefficient seats to govern,thus make allowances for those who will scratch their backs,i.e Jim (I'm not swapping parties cause I lost leadership,and shifting to labour stronghold seat) Anderton giving his parties(yeah right)vote in return for getting his NZ owned bank,although we have two NZ owned banks,TSB and PSIS.

I can't recall ever getting a hiding from my parents,yep a smack or two,my neighbour one day was being a shit when his mum asked him to do something,instead he sat outside playing cricket with us,his mum was pissed off with him.She picked up a wicket and threw it at him,hit him in his calf and as it had metal shaft on bottom,it stuck into his leg.This family were hard working,but man at the time could she swear(35yrs ago) if the kids pissed her off,other than that time,we never saw anything worse than the odd slap,certainly never severe beatings.Yep our life was sheltered compared to what could have been happening in other homes,each their own.

[cowboyz]

pretty sure it simply falls into the "let people do whatever they want and worry about yourself. Cant stand all these people who think that they can tell others what to do. If they want to be unruly and anti socialable then that is their choice. If people want help they will ask for it." Basket.

Seems to be the concenous for alot round here........

[Jiminy]

But you and they never will

Ahem, I do agree with that. I just sometimes miss a system where people can propose and oppose laws rather than just vote for political parties every three years. But, hey, you're right, I'm going to cowardly return to my bike instead of joining the political system.

[Livvy]

It is incredibly stupid how far this is going, I'll agree. You can't reason with a three year old - sometimes smacking is the best choice of action so they don't do worse harm to themselves or others. Child abuse is disgusting and horrible, and I wish we had a better system in finding those who do abuse their children and punishing them in such a way that people will forever think twice, but some will always slip through the cracks.

We need to be able to teach children proper morals so they will grow up and influence the world in a better way - not letting them push shopping trollies repetatively into the backs of people's legs. If I'd done that as a kid I would have been smacked on the arse in public and I think that's great I was raised like that.

Anyway, something one of my friends told me, who has a kid of his own - never hit your child in anger. This case (of a guy flicking his kid around the ear) is much like one my friend repeated to me. A guy had been angry at his son for talking back and clipped him around the ear, not realising his son was off balance. The son slipped and fell backwards into a table, hitting the soft part of his skull and was killed.

Was that child abuse? No. But it was done in anger and therefore still wrong. But the guy was never sent to prison, even though it was technically manslaughter. But the judge, I think, had taken pity on him and sentenced him to home detention. The worst had already happened to the father - because of his actions he'd lost his son.

[Timaa]

There were still organised Aborigine hunts in the 1960s.

The apology isn't for past wrongs.

The ear flick thing is old news. This isn't the first instance of people being prosecuted for disciplining children in public since the "Anti-Smacking" bill was passed, and as for the comments about the Police "choosing" to prosecute, when are you idiots (harsh, but for goodness sake people!) going to understand that the Police enforce laws that are passed by people you hand a mandate to at election time? They don't make them up on the spot, and in the instance of a criminal act they don't get to exercise a great deal of discretion, certainly nowhere near as much as for a traffic offense.

lol i dont vote, fuck this 'c(o)unt'rys govt. they are useless in my opinion. lol. they just sit and abuse each other then pass dumb ass bills and then ban people from watching them abuse each other. lol

[Timaa]

there could be a whole bunch of ways to fix the laws in nz on this subject but nz cant afford to do studies and the like to prove it and america has better things to worry bout, fatness and such, ( not that that is better lol ) but still. when a young kid doesnt understand the word dont, a physical ( but reasonable) flick will tend to reinforce the tru meaning of the word. its like doing stuff for yourself not just being told about it. its just not the same unless you have that experience yourself and can associate feelings, emotions and words with the experience.

ive been hit twice ever by my parents and i did nothing about it, they apoligised like 2 hours later. and other than that ive had the wooden spoon and time out. but i rekon it was good for me as it set boundaries and expectations of me from a young age.

anyone got any links to an actual media story online sumwher? post please. !?
tim

[El Dopa]

http://www.telstraclear.co.nz/news/news-story.cfm?content_id=5131

"It has emerged a Christchurch man who says he was charged after flicking his son's ear is [actually] accused of assaulting both of his children [in a separate incident or incidents].

Last month Jimmy Mason went public with his claims he was harassed by the police when he was spotted disciplining his son.

Police initially warned him, but later charged him with two counts of assault [for incidents unrelated to the 'ear-flicking incident]. In court this morning it was revealed the charges are in relation to both his sons, who are aged two and four."

Text in square brackets added by me because the reporter for telstraclear can't write - my understanding of what the situation actually is based on stuff I've read here and elsewhere.

So do you all want to calm the fuck down now?

[Unit]

apparently on the news a few nights ago a man is being taken to court after flicking his sons ear:Pokey: as punishment for being rude.

Well I locked my three year old out side one night about 10pm because he was being rude, I surely hope they dont bring this law in to be retrospective, then all our kids could claim our money before we die, and make us watch them spend it (thank god I dont have any money).

[Fatjim]

I'm a firm believer there is nothing I can do about it so why get all hot and bothered.

I was never a believer of child abuse in public anyway.

[Timaa]

lol well sounds like the story had another side i hadnt heard, lol still, im sure there are other cases where is happened and wasnt justified.

[Mom]

I am so glad to be through the childrearing years, If this law was in place when my kids were growing up I would be behind bars I am sure. A friend with 2 young boys (8 & 6) who uses discipline like normal parents had an experience that floored me. His son came home from school and said, you are not alowed to smack me anymore, my teacher said if you do the Police will come and take you away.

Mike said, thats ok, I dont mind if they do. How would you feel though if Daddy was gone, no more kite flying, no more kayaking, Mummy will be sad and not want to play with you either and there will be no more money to spend.

The kids agreed that it would be terrible if Daddy was not around, so that ended that problem. He does not beat them either, from time to time they simply get a stern reminder of what is ok and what is not. FWIW these boys are busy, run around kids with perfect manners.

[n0regret5]

the whole story, when you hear it, makes the situation seem completely stupid. i want that mental-case woman who suggested the bill to be a kindergarten teacher for a week, lets see just how fuckin good she is at not smacking kinds..

[Livvy]

the whole story, when you hear it, makes the situation seem completely stupid. i want that mental-case woman who suggested the bill to be a kindergarten teacher for a week, lets see just how fuckin good she is at not smacking kinds..

"Oh no, Tyler, dear, please, please don't try and put your fork into the plug... Oh god what is Johnny doing? Tyler, I thought I told you to stay away from the plug socket, there's a good boy, oh why is Johnny in the kitchen? He's at the stove! Oh lord, stay here Tyler, I'll be back in a second... Oh Maddison, don't try and eat the lego! Now where did Johnny go... Maddison, take that out of your mouth, please, Maddy, please... Johnny? What was that crash? Maddy, you're blue! Oh shit, I smell burning!"

Yeah just on the fact she's against smacking I wouldn't let her near my children, or anyone else's. I occasionally help out at the day care centre where I was sent as a youngin' as my niece goes there, and you either got the knack or you don't.

What's the bet the lady that asked for this bill to be passed doesn't even have children?!

[n0regret5]

"Oh no, Tyler, dear, please, please don't try and put your fork into the plug... Oh god what is Johnny doing? Tyler, I thought I told you to stay away from the plug socket, there's a good boy, oh why is Johnny in the kitchen? He's at the stove! Oh lord, stay here Tyler, I'll be back in a second... Oh Maddison, don't try and eat the lego! Now where did Johnny go... Maddison, take that out of your mouth, please, Maddy, please... Johnny? What was that crash? Maddy, you're blue! Oh shit, I smell burning!"

Yeah just on the fact she's against smacking I wouldn't let her near my children, or anyone else's. I occasionally help out at the day care centre where I was sent as a youngin' as my niece goes there, and you either got the knack or you don't.

What's the bet the lady that asked for this bill to be passed doesn't even have children?!

yeh she doesn't. (but look at her..who'd wanna impregnate that? even the turkey baster didn't wanna touch her..)

i loved the story my mate told me..she was standing on the side of the road somewhere watching a mother tell her child not to run onto the road cos it was naughty. kid runs onto road and nearly gets nailed, mum tells the kid off. this was before the smacking laws came in.

if my kid misbehaves, its gonna get a smack. this law won't last long, kids today are total shits cos their parents believe telling their kids off is more effective than smacking. i'm not disagreeing that it's effective..it just has its places.

[Livvy]

yeh she doesn't. (but look at her..who'd wanna impregnate that? even the turkey baster didn't wanna touch her..)

i loved the story my mate told me..she was standing on the side of the road somewhere watching a mother tell her child not to run onto the road cos it was naughty. kid runs onto road and nearly gets nailed, mum tells the kid off. this was before the smacking laws came in.

if my kid misbehaves, its gonna get a smack. this law won't last long, kids today are total shits cos their parents believe telling their kids off is more effective than smacking. i'm not disagreeing that it's effective..it just has its places.

Same here. There's times when sending them to the naughty corner will work, but at times, you just gotta give them a smack on the arse. I'd care more about keeping little Johnny from third degree burns, Tyler from electrocution and Maddison from choking to death by giving any one of them a clip than I would the prison sentence.

[Rotor]

who beleives the news.
they put what sells not the truth

[n0regret5]

Same here. There's times when sending them to the naughty corner will work, but at times, you just gotta give them a smack on the arse. I'd care more about keeping little Johnny from third degree burns, Tyler from electrocution and Maddison from choking to death by giving any one of them a clip than I would the prison sentence.

excellent! now..who here would do a protest?

[Livvy]

excellent! now..who here would do a protest?

Meeee.

But you might have guessed that.

[n0regret5]

Meeee.

But you might have guessed that.

:-) great. i signed a petition last time i was in wellington too..this DOES need to be sorted.

[Livvy]

:-) great. i signed a petition last time i was in wellington too..this DOES need to be sorted.

I signed one at Parachute Music Festival this year.

I also believe they should at least bring back the "threat" of corporal punishment in schools in some ways. I'm definitely a nerd in the fact I enjoy going to school and hate my classes being interrupted by the idiots who ruin it. Wave a cane in their faces and they might shut up because threatening them with lines sure as hell don't work, and what do you do then? Threaten to expel them? Well that don't work because it's illegal to deny someone education if they're under a certain age so the little fuckers are back next week.

By the way, my grandfather was a high school teacher and my great-aunt a headmistress. Neither had any particular problem students because of the threat that was there, and yet neither ever had to go through with it.

[n0regret5]

yeh but in todays world everything is wrapped in bubble-wrap and sweetly flavoured to hide the taste of medicine..the PC's and softys are ruining the world for us. i still remember my saddest school day, when they pulled down the awesom fort (was essentially a large wooden wall with pegs on one side and poles on the other) and replaced it with a fort that was barely a metre from the ground, as it was deemed 'safer'..yeh, but kids who fell off learnt pretty fuckin quick not to be stupid on it, along with the kids who saw it happen..but no. and whats with this anti-bacterial soap bullshit? making your kids use it all the time will stop them from developing an immune system. but the thing that pisses me off the MOST is when i go to a sushi restaurant and ask for wasabi, and i get a blob of wasabi-flavoured avocado. there has only been two sushi places that i have ever been to (i go to alot) that don't do that unless you ask. if you can't handle it, DON'T EAT IT!

god i rant.:-)

smacking a naughty kid has nothing to do with abuse. its discipline.

oh my god. what if a karate sensei got arrested for kicking one of his young students?!

[Livvy]

I know what you mean, we had a wooden fortress at my school too, must have been verging on at least being about the height of a two storey building, but did we ever fall off? Fuck no.

And as for the antibacterial shit, now they're also making it sound like you can barely go outside without getting skin cancer... So parents won't let their kids in the sun and now our newest generation are getting rickets due to lack of vitamin C I think? Correct me if I'm wrong. But shit. Come on people... Let Max play on the "big kid's playground" and yeah he might break his arm falling off the monkey bars, but he'll be so proud of his cast. Let little Susy get sunburnt, she'll get a tan and hey presto, no more sunburn. So what, Josh touched the dog and didn't wash his hands before eating his sandwich, the germs are more likely to be slight enough to improve his immune system before it'd overcome it.

Karate Sensei probably thought the kid deserved to be kicked.

[ElCoyote]

[QUOTE=
Btw, when will New Zealand be a democracy and the people have a right of say that goes beyond a selection of short-sighted political parties? (Jiminy goes hiding :chase::girlfight:)[/QUOTE]

Only when we rid the hallowed halls of Parliament of Lesbians, Communists and Femminazis. Short answer don't hold your breath, they are firmly entrenched.:angry2:

[ElCoyote]

What's the bet the lady that asked for this bill to be passed doesn't even have children?!


1) That's no lady
2) Who would mate with it, it's FUGLY:headbang:

[mstriumph]

over here they have to PAY people to have children ---- otherwise, coupla years, there'd be no-one for the pollies to leach off

...... with this sort of idiocy becoming rampant, it's probably mainly the poorly educated and already disadvantaged they can get to accept the bribe and breed

personally i think it might be a gift to the universe if the whole human race thing were permitted to become a human shuffle and eventually die out :yawn:

[steveb64]

Why does everyone lame "auntie Helen" for this piece of shit legislation. Green MP Sue bradford owns this one. When the Green party come canvasing for your vote this year, let them know what you think of both bradford and the bill.
(and it's not really stopping kids from being abused to death, is it?)

Which is why it will be a cold day in hell before I ever vote for the fucking Green party again. And my biggest regret is having EVER voted for the fuckers. And Labour - and for that matter National - won't be getting any sort of vote from me either. Bastards all voted for bitch Bradfords bill...

[steveb64]

I am so glad to be through the childrearing years, If this law was in place when my kids were growing up I would be behind bars I am sure. A friend with 2 young boys (8 & 6) who uses discipline like normal parents had an experience that floored me. His son came home from school and said, you are not alowed to smack me anymore, my teacher said if you do the Police will come and take you away.

Mike said, thats ok, I dont mind if they do. How would you feel though if Daddy was gone, no more kite flying, no more kayaking, Mummy will be sad and not want to play with you either and there will be no more money to spend.

The kids agreed that it would be terrible if Daddy was not around, so that ended that problem. He does not beat them either, from time to time they simply get a stern reminder of what is ok and what is not. FWIW these boys are busy, run around kids with perfect manners.

Hmmph - one of mine tried that one on me too - he started looking worried when I told him that if I was going down - then so was Mum - which would mean he (and little bro) would be off to a foster home - no motorbikes, no toys, no fun times with the family. Shut him up pretty fast really.

Kind of makes you wonder what the government thinks is best for the kids - no smacks - or no family, so the kids are locked up in some pathetic CYFS hovel, getting the shit kicked out of them by the retards living there - until they run away, and get topped by some thug in the street?

[Winston001]

Anyone know what ever happened to this prosecution....after all of the noise?

[RantyDave]

The police dropped it. The common sense the law entrusts them with was actually enacted. Go figure.

Dave

[DarkLord]

What a joke.

It is lack of discipline and this kind of shit that destroys people. We need to take a firmer stance but everyone is too scared they'll "hurt the little darlings feelings" and the like.

The best thing for some people is a heavy hand of discipline. The more that we try and outlaw discipline in our society the worse this kind of thing is going to get. Then, people will sit around and ask "why is our country going downhill so much?"

:no:

[inlinefour]

Too many fucktards that don't have kids, clearly don't have a farking clue deciding the rules when it comes to parenting. IF the Police charged a parent, and only if, that officer IMO should be sacked for wasting Police resources.

[Ms Piggy]

"For most children, New Zealand is a wonderful place to grow up in. Some are not so lucky. Childhood trauma, abuse, violence and neglect are a fact of life (and sometimes death) for too many of our young people.

Child abuse, violence and trauma affects thousands of children with over 63,000 referrals made to Child Youth and Family in 2006.

It is estimated that each year in New Zealand:

* Every month one child is killed through physical abuse
* 9,800 children are hospitalized with preventable injuries
* There is a $5.32 billion fiscal and economic cost to New Zealand on the long term effects of childhood abuse
* Approximately 15% of children are born at risk
* More than 80,000 children are witnesses of family violence
* One family member is killed through family violence every 12½ days"

Direct quote from: http://www.cps.org.nz/page/cps_5.php

[Skyryder]

Any legisaltion that brings the perpertraters of childhood abuse to justice I am in favour of.

What is the problem here??


Skyryder

[WarlockNZ]

Oh no, won't someone please think of the precious little snow flakes, If we discipline them how will they ever be able to grow up as normal well adjusted adults that can take a productive role in society?

Wait, what ????

Fuck that! .. I've lived on both sides of this coin, i was disciplined harshly (when warranted) with the jug cord no less, I'll tell you want, it taught me right from wrong and thats a fact.

Later on, I lived in a foster home or 5, they reason I had to keep moving, is that the foster families weren't allowed to hit me and I just ran rampant.

now, I don't have any kids, yet, but when and if I do they will be given a what for if they deserve it, there are times when the law is an ass.

[Skyryder]

What a joke.

It is lack of discipline and this kind of shit that destroys people. We need to take a firmer stance but everyone is too scared they'll "hurt the little darlings feelings" and the like.

The best thing for some people is a heavy hand of discipline. The more that we try and outlaw discipline in our society the worse this kind of thing is going to get. Then, people will sit around and ask "why is our country going downhill so much?"

:no:


Why do you associate discipline with the infliction of pain??



Skyryder

[firefighter]

oh and it was the cops choice to arrest the man and charge him in the first instance...

hey dont blame the cops.....I think you'll find they only pressed charges due to witnesses being there.....they have to up-hold the law, especially when theres a heap of people around and the law is brand-new....otherwise im sure they wouldnt really have bothered.

[RantyDave]

It is lack of discipline and this kind of shit that destroys people.
I'll remind you of that when you get your first speeding ticket.

Dave

[WarlockNZ]

Why do you associate discipline with the infliction of pain??



Skyryder

I said "Harsh" discipline, there are other options

[Ms Piggy]

"New Zealand has nothing to be complacent about. In a UNICEF / INNOCENTI report written in 2005, New Zealand ranks 3rd worst out of 27 OECD countries in terms of children’s deaths from maltreatment. New Zealand has levels of child maltreatment deaths that are 4 to 6 times higher than the average for the leading countries."

Sourced from: http://www.unicef.org.nz/news/news/news1160684054.html

[Skyryder]

I said "Harsh" discipline, there are other options

I was not replying to your post. You got a jug chord. Mine was a razor strop embedded with lead. I never mistreated my children in the way I was. I just hope that you have learnt something from the beatings...........

Skyryder

[cowboyz]

The shocking part of all this is that common sense is not all that common. I hear all the time about how it is too hard to legislate what is acceptable or not so might as well have zero tolerance.

A workmate of mine was in the supermarket the other day and there was a father with a child of about 7. The kid was causing hell, running round, yelling and being a right pain in the arse. The father repeatly and increasingly was getting more and more frustrated and asking his kid to settle down. The kid wasnt having a bar of it.
When my workmate was walking round the corner at the back of the store he saw the father give the kid a swift clip across the ear. The kid was shellshocked but not as much as the father who found himself speechless looking directly at my workmate. All a bit awkward. My workmate said, dont worry mate, I would have done the same ages ago, having an 8 yr old of his own.
The relief from the father was very apparent.

Naysayers will bleet about the emotional damage inflicted on the kid. What about the emotional damage inflicted on a parents having to listen to a misbehaving kid all day. Nip it in the bud and teach some respect.

Interesting note is I have 3 kids. 2 of which I have never laid a hand on, 1 which has had a fair smack across the hand a few times. (I prefer to make them hold their hand out and wait for it, because anyone who has had the strap or cane at school knows that the waiting is much much worse than the impact). I am happy with the way my kids are in public and around the community.
Action and reaction. Basic physics.

[WarlockNZ]

You got a jug chord. Mine was a razor strop embedded with lead. I never mistreated my children in the way I was.
Skyryder

See.. now THAT is abuse and I for one would report that shit, come on .. a razor strop embedded with lead??

Thats not discipline, thats wailing on your child.

[awayatc]

"New Zealand has nothing to be complacent about. In a UNICEF / INNOCENTI report written in 2005, New Zealand ranks 3rd worst out of 27 OECD countries in terms of children’s deaths from maltreatment. New Zealand has levels of child maltreatment deaths that are 4 to 6 times higher than the average for the leading countries."

Sourced from: http://www.unicef.org.nz/news/news/news1160684054.html

And how does that quote of yours relate to the issues raised in this thread?
So parents that give a clip around the ear of their kids are responsible for maltreatment deaths?:nono:

Please present me one shred of "evidence", that even just one of these childmurderers was even remotely considered to be a normal parent....let alone one who took interest in a balanced upbringing for his/her offspring.....:spanking:

Don't put off till tomorow what you can do today......
(It will most likely have been made illegal by then....)<_<

[Ms Piggy]

And how does that quote of yours relate to the issues raised in this thread?
So parents that give a clip around the ear of their kids are responsible for maltreatment deaths?:nono:

Please present me one shred of "evidence", that even just one of these childmurderers was even remotely considered to be a normal parent....let alone one who took interest in a balanced upbringing for his/her offspring.....:spanking:

Don't put off till tomorow what you can do today......
(It will most likely have been made illegal by then....)<_<

I'm sure I could find evidence you ask for but because I know it won't change your view I won't bother. We'll have to agree to disagree. It is my line of work that influences my views.

[Winston001]

What a joke.

It is lack of discipline and this kind of shit that destroys people. We need to take a firmer stance but everyone is too scared they'll "hurt the little darlings feelings" and the like.

The best thing for some people is a heavy hand of discipline. The more that we try and outlaw discipline in our society the worse this kind of thing is going to get. Then, people will sit around and ask "why is our country going downhill so much?"

:no:

I agree with your theme - discipline is essential for learning and respect. Where we differ is thinking discipline means assault. It doesn't.

Adults hitting kids isn't admirable. It isn't brave. It isn't even effective. Often the bullies teachers have to deal with at school are simply acting out what happens to them at home. Thats what a kid learns if you hit them - physical assault is how to impose your will on others.

The example of the 7yr old running amok tells us the parents have not taught that child restraint in public places at a much earlier age. 7 is a bit late to start.

I have three children now entering their teens. They were smacked a few times as toddlers but mostly time-out, TV withdrawn, treats taken away, etc. And taked to.

Same with their friends. All these kids are decent children with no violent or anti-social tendencies. In fact people often tell my wife and I how good they are.

Guys - great big hulking adults do not need to hit kids. Simple.

[cowboyz]

Adults hitting kids isn't admirable.
It isn't brave.
It isn't even effective.

I have three children now entering their teens. They were smacked a few times as toddlers but mostly time-out, TV withdrawn, treats taken away, etc. And taked to.

Guys - great big hulking adults do not need to hit kids. Simple Is it????????.

is it really that simple? I actually cut your quote a bit too much. In there you mention that 7yrs old is a bit too late to start disaplining your kids and you should start earlier. Then you do on to say you smacked your kids "a few times as toddlers" When is enough, enough? With the new anti-smacking bill you have already admitted to have gone too far. But then go on to say it wasnt neccessary. Which side of the fence are you on?

[RDJ]

"For most children, New Zealand is a wonderful place to grow up in. Some are not so lucky. Childhood trauma, abuse, violence and neglect are a fact of life (and sometimes death) for too many of our young people.

Child abuse, violence and trauma affects thousands of children with over 63,000 referrals made to Child Youth and Family in 2006.

It is estimated that each year in New Zealand:

* Every month one child is killed through physical abuse
* 9,800 children are hospitalized with preventable injuries
* There is a $5.32 billion fiscal and economic cost to New Zealand on the long term effects of childhood abuse
* Approximately 15% of children are born at risk
* More than 80,000 children are witnesses of family violence
* One family member is killed through family violence every 12½ days"

Direct quote from: http://www.cps.org.nz/page/cps_5.php

We're all sadly aware that this is what is happening to children. But where is the link between a smack on the bottom and murdering your child? The majority of us over-50's were brought up in the 40s and 50s being smacked and (1) our parents were not murdering us then and (2) we don't murder our kids now. Therefore - why do people think these stats (I assume you quoted them in support of the anti-smacking legislation), support anti-smacking legislation? I would rather think that the quoted stats highlight the results of lack of discipline in some of the current generation of parents so that Cru's and Lillybing's abusers think that actions do not have consequences. Those of us who got strapped at school and smacked at home for misbehaviour could not avoid drawing the conclusion that actions had consequences...

[Ms Piggy]

We're all sadly aware that this is what is happening to children. But where is the link between a smack on the bottom and murdering your child? The majority of us over-50's were brought up in the 40s and 50s being smacked and (1) our parents were not murdering us then and (2) we don't murder our kids now. Therefore - why do people think these stats (I assume you quoted them in support of the anti-smacking legislation), support anti-smacking legislation? I would rather think that the quoted stats highlight the results of lack of discipline in some of the current generation of parents so that Cru's and Lillybing's abusers think that actions do not have consequences. Those of us who got strapped at school and smacked at home for misbehaviour could not avoid drawing the conclusion that actions had consequences...
The link is violence and you won't convince me otherwise.

[RDJ]

The link is violence and you won't convince me otherwise.

Not trying to. Was asking a question / suggesting an explanation.

[Winston001]

is it really that simple? I actually cut your quote a bit too much. In there you mention that 7yrs old is a bit too late to start disiplining your kids and you should start earlier. Then you do on to say you smacked your kids "a few times as toddlers" When is enough, enough? With the new anti-smacking bill you have already admitted to have gone too far. But then go on to say it wasnt neccessary. Which side of the fence are you on?

Yep, absolutely fair comment. I was trying to be truthful - in fact I think I smacked each child on the bottom twice each in 5 years. No bruises, no hysteria - and no breach of the law as it was then - or now.

My point is that my wife and I didn't smack the children for discipline - and we have lovely kids today.

I'm human - I was smacked hard as a child and initially thought it was ok for me as a parent to do the same. It was only because I went to parenting courses that I changed my mind - and I'm damned glad I did.

You are still allowed to lightly discipline your child - it remains lawful. No decent parent has anything to worry about.

[Sparrowhawk]

IMHO there's a huge difference between 'hitting' and 'smaking'. Hitting a kid, eg. punching, no need for it. A smack on the hand or the bum, no problem

"but what about the emotional impact" the holier-than-thou's exclaim?

What about the emotional impact of time out? Don't try and bullshit me and say there isn't any. Or the emotional impact of no discipline? Screwed up kids that will get a rude awakening when they hit the real world, 'coz employers won't take the shit and backtalk that their parents can't deal with, and they'll get fired.

And yeah, I've got two kids, a 2 year old & a 6 year old, and yeah, they get a light smack when they need it. I use time out & removing toys etc too, but with a two year old, you sometimes need to get the message through. Like has been said already, if a toddler is putting things in wall sockets, playing with heaters etc., they need to have it associated with pain. I'd rather that pain be for 20 seconds from a smack on the hand than from a bad burn.

Rant over :whistle:

[awayatc]

IMHO there's a huge difference between 'hitting' and 'smaking'. Hitting a kid, eg. punching, no need for it. A smack on the hand or the bum, no problem

"but what about the emotional impact" the holier-than-thou's exclaim?

What about the emotional impact of time out? Don't try and bullshit me and say there isn't any. Or the emotional impact of no discipline? Screwed up kids that will get a rude awakening when they hit the real world, 'coz employers won't take the shit and backtalk that their parents can't deal with, and they'll get fired.

And yeah, I've got two kids, a 2 year old & a 6 year old, and yeah, they get a light smack when they need it. I use time out & removing toys etc too, but with a two year old, you sometimes need to get the message through. Like has been said already, if a toddler is putting things in wall sockets, playing with heaters etc., they need to have it associated with pain. I'd rather that pain be for 20 seconds from a smack on the hand than from a bad burn.

Rant over :whistle:

You are right.....shame you didn't make the law.....Sue did...:eek5:

[awayatc]

The link is violence and you won't convince me otherwise.

Is that you Sue....?:spanking:

[skidMark]

....bloody PC Bullshit is ruining this country

And this forum.

[Ms Piggy]

Not trying to. Was asking a question / suggesting an explanation.

Will try to compile an answer when I have a moment and PM you.

[Ms Piggy]

Is that you Sue....?:spanking:

Nope. The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.

[DarkLord]

Why do you associate discipline with the infliction of pain??



Skyryder

It's the only way some people will listen unfortunately.

[DarkLord]

IMHO there's a huge difference between 'hitting' and 'smaking'. Hitting a kid, eg. punching, no need for it. A smack on the hand or the bum, no problem

"but what about the emotional impact" the holier-than-thou's exclaim?

What about the emotional impact of time out? Don't try and bullshit me and say there isn't any. Or the emotional impact of no discipline? Screwed up kids that will get a rude awakening when they hit the real world, 'coz employers won't take the shit and backtalk that their parents can't deal with, and they'll get fired.

And yeah, I've got two kids, a 2 year old & a 6 year old, and yeah, they get a light smack when they need it. I use time out & removing toys etc too, but with a two year old, you sometimes need to get the message through. Like has been said already, if a toddler is putting things in wall sockets, playing with heaters etc., they need to have it associated with pain. I'd rather that pain be for 20 seconds from a smack on the hand than from a bad burn.

Rant over :whistle:


Perhaps I didn't explain myself clearly before - this is what I meant. There is a clear difference between "hitting" and "smacking".

And it's also true that discipline does not always involve physical affliction. Some kids just need a damn good telling off.

I guess it's about finding a balance, really. The extreme of beating the shit out of a kid who does something wrong is cruel and barbaric. But the other extreme, of sitting there and going "my child is such a precious little perfect who never ever does anything wrong ever" and letting them get away scot free with EVERYTHING, is also wrong.

[moT]

OMG He flicked the child in the ear!!! What an abusive parent! He could of killed the poor kid i hope that man gets what he deserves! What a dispicable act of child abuse its a good thing that the government has these laws in place or many other parents could be flicking there children in the ears! They have no idea the physical and mental dammage it can cause to there fragile bodies and minds!
What is this world comeing to

[Fatjim]

Fucking lesbian liberal tree hugging amoral bitches wouldn't understand the word "violence" it it stood up and hit them in the face.

[awayatc]

Perhaps I didn't explain myself clearly before - this is what I meant. There is a clear difference between "hitting" and "smacking".
.


AAh, when a baby is born, the doctor used to" smack" that baby......
But when Sue Breadbox was born the doctor wanted to "hit" the mother.....:clap:

Got it:2thumbsup

[Manxman]

Person who lightly smacks their children comes under police scrutiny, sweating over whether they will exercise their discretion and not prosecute.

Compare and contrast with man who beats seven colours out of his kids...and gets a 6 month sentence reduction. http://stuff.co.nz/4500292a12855.html

Thanks Labour for another BIG reason not to vote for you.

And if you think it's not Labour doing this, then look no further than the tipping upside down of the justice system away from focusing on the victim and punishing criminals, to helping the offender and giving them underfloor heating, XBox and 42" plasma TVs to 'rehabilitate' them...that's really gonna encourage them not to reoffend, eh?

BS

[Skyryder]

Perhaps I didn't explain myself clearly before - this is what I meant. There is a clear difference between "hitting" and "smacking".

To hit someone you strike them and to smack some one you strike them.


Yep that's clear. Sorted


Skyryder

[insane1]

whats happened to the parents right to disipline there child as they see fit as the kid was beeing rude a quick clip across the ear prob sorted. mine did it to me when thet thought i deserved it hasnt hurt me at all taught me what the boundaries of accetable behaviour is and what wasnt tolerated at all.

[RDJ]

Although we may disagree about approach and the emphasis on legislating correct behaviour (which historically has always been unsuccessful), the problem is not likely to be the "reasonable" parents who participate in this forum... whichever side of the legislative divide we come down upon.

[DarkLord]

To hit someone you strike them and to smack some one you strike them.


Yep that's clear. Sorted


Skyryder

Say what you will but there is a difference. And if you don't believe me read the examples in this thread where people talk about being disciplined by a "clip across the ear" as insane1 said. Is he saying that he was viciously abused? no, he was actually saying it did him good.

[Manxman]

Say what you will but there is a difference. And if you don't believe me read the examples in this thread where people talk about being disciplined by a "clip across the ear" as insane1 said. Is he saying that he was viciously abused? no, he was actually saying it did him good.

Don't worry mate, you are right.