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justsomeguy
22nd November 2004, 18:19
Hi there,

After I stop, say at a stop sign or traffic lights, give way, etc. I shift down to first as I roll to a stop. Once I stop I try to tap it into neutral.

I only succeed maybe 3 out of ten times.:blink:

Why is that? I always try to be as gentle as possible and the cluth is fully pressed. Yet it normally skips into second gear.

I know that I am in first due to the way the bike responds to the throttle and simlutaneous release of the clutch.

Also sometimes I think I am in first (shifted right to the bottom) only to find out that I am in second.........

Bit of a headache when you're stopped at the lights with a bloody cage sitting 6 inches from your exhaust.....

Err... so yeah - do you guys also have trouble tapping into neutral from first when you stop - or it this behaviour reserved for newbies.

John
22nd November 2004, 18:25
from my experience, its best to stay in first - just incase you need to get away in a hurry, just food for thought, I never had much trouble finding neutral, just kept the clutch in a went for gold.

others will have better insight on this though.

Two Smoker
22nd November 2004, 18:29
Your clutch probably needs adjusting.... do that, and it should sort your problems :niceone:

Blakamin
22nd November 2004, 18:29
Hi there,

After I stop, say at a stop sign or traffic lights, give way, etc. I shift down to first as I roll to a stop. Once I stop I try to tap it into neutral.

I only succeed maybe 3 out of ten times.:blink:

Why is that? I always try to be as gentle as possible and the cluth is fully pressed. Yet it normally skips into second gear.

I know that I am in first due to the way the bike responds to the throttle and simlutaneous release of the clutch.

Also sometimes I think I am in first (shifted right to the bottom) only to find out that I am in second.........

Bit of a headache when you're stopped at the lights with a bloody cage sitting 6 inches from your exhaust.....

Err... so yeah - do you guys also have trouble tapping into neutral from first when you stop - or it this behaviour reserved for newbies.


DONT buy an old(er) Ducati then.... if i want neutral, i have to be moving... or the bikes cold or the engines off

inlinefour
22nd November 2004, 18:37
from a total service. Gone is the clunky gearbox and in with new improved oil. I thought and accepted that I had a difficult gearbox, apparently not. :rockon:

justsomeguy
22nd November 2004, 18:40
....... or the bikes cold or the engines off
No the engine is warm - I spend a few minutes about 5-7 letting the bike warm up in my driveway - always. If I'm getting late I'll take a cage.

The engine should be on unless someones hiding a very powerful sewing machine up my ..........

justsomeguy
22nd November 2004, 18:42
from a total service. Gone is the clunky gearbox and in with new improved oil. I thought and accepted that I had a difficult gearbox, apparently not. :rockon:
Well I'll talk to my mechanic and see what he has to say. But the gearbox runs SUPER SMOOTH. And it upshifts and downshifts beautifully. It's just that when I stop and try to put it into neutral it just skips into 2nd most of the time.

Maybe it's the gear box - maye it's the pressure of being in stop-start traffic surrounded by caged animals.

Two Smoker
22nd November 2004, 18:45
Well I'll talk to my mechanic and see what he has to say. But the gearbox runs SUPER SMOOTH. And it upshifts and downshifts beautifully. It's just that when I stop and try to put it into neutral it just skips into 2nd most of the time.

Maybe it's the gear box - maye it's the pressure of being in stop-start traffic surrounded by caged animals.
As i said before, its definately the clutch needing adjustment... (look at your clutch lever....)

Motu
22nd November 2004, 18:52
Finding neutral is difficult on some bikes,no matter what you do,of the 5 of my bikes that I ride,only one gets neutral when stopped.If you know you want neutral take it with a small dab from 2nd before you stop,coming from 1st you won't get it.Becomes natural after awhile.

justsomeguy
22nd November 2004, 18:53
As i said before, its definately the clutch needing adjustment... (look at your clutch lever....)
Taking it back to the mechanic soon - will see what he says and get him to adjust the thing too.

Thanks TwoSmoker.

NC
22nd November 2004, 18:54
Rocking the bike helps

Quasievil
22nd November 2004, 18:54
My Bikes reasonably new and is a right pain in the arse to find Neutral, its well documented, its not a biggy though, gives me something to do at the lights.

Oh and Cajun stick your comments up yer arse lol

merv
22nd November 2004, 18:55
Wet multi plate clutches on bikes aren't exactly the best for disengaging fully and tend to drag a bit anyway. On my VFR I generally slip into neutral from second as I'm pulling up and then sit at lights or stop sign with the brakes on. I don't leave it in gear if I can help it for two reasons - its hard on your hand holding the clutch for too long and it is putting pressure on the disengaging mechanism for all that time too, and also I figure if you get hit from behind you don't want to end up dropping clutch and at the same time you may wind on the throttle by accident and then where are you? Down the road uncontrollably into a busy intersection maybe.

My WR is a bugger to find neutral on - very grabby clutch on them and no light to tell you that you've found neutral either - typical dirt bike.

You just got to get used to it if you have already adjusted the clutch to work best - meaning don't have it too tight else you may end up wrecking the plates if it slips when it shouldn't be.

k14
22nd November 2004, 18:55
Same here, I can't get neutral on my bike if it is stationary and running. If i want neutral i either select it before the lights and coast up to a stop or quickly turn my bike off and on again. Don't know if the mechanic will be able to do anything about it, it's not a big issue.

justsomeguy
22nd November 2004, 19:01
Same here, I can't get neutral on my bike if it is stationary and running. If i want neutral i either select it before the lights and coast up to a stop or quickly turn my bike off and on again. Don't know if the mechanic will be able to do anything about it, it's not a big issue.
Naa, I got to see him about another issue:

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=6744

BUBBLE
22nd November 2004, 19:08
Dont over adjust your clutch, it should begin to bite as the lever is around 3/4 out. If its over adjusted the clutch will slip under heavy acceleration and a clutch can be damaged rather quickly if its slipping.
Its quite common for some bikes to be hard to find neutral, particularly older bikes. Not normally due to wear but older technology. Its simply due to friction/drag between the plates, doesnt tend to matter if they are new or old.
Trying a different oil can sometimes fix it, experiment with heavier or lighter oils. Caution that some oils if too light can also cause the clutch to slip.

sAsLEX
22nd November 2004, 19:24
the vfr is tricky and most of the time i dont bother trying to find it, my mechanic (KK cough ) said it is due to unblanced carbs :spudwhat:

BUBBLE
22nd November 2004, 19:39
Yep, a motor that is revving too high will also be hard to find neutral

Velox
22nd November 2004, 23:51
Dont over adjust your clutch, it should begin to bite as the lever is around 3/4 out. If its over adjusted the clutch will slip under heavy acceleration and a clutch can be damaged rather quickly if its slipping.
Its quite common for some bikes to be hard to find neutral, particularly older bikes. Not normally due to wear but older technology. Its simply due to friction/drag between the plates, doesnt tend to matter if they are new or old.

I like the clutch to 'bite' pretty soon after I start letting the lever out but are you saying this is bad for it?
And you mean under heavy acceleration just when you're changing gears right? As opposed to just under heavy acceleration?

My bike has had this prob for all the time I've had it aswell (3 years). I've given up being patient with it and just turn it off and then on again to get into neutral if I find I'm stuck in gear at the lights.

Holy Roller
23rd November 2004, 02:08
Don't seem to have a problem finding neutral, my bike will find it itself when in first. I select first and if I have to wait a little time I go to take off only to find neutral has been selected. I find it helpful when coming home and haveing to stop to open the gate, just lean over the front and unlatch the gate and the bike is already in neutral so I can close the gate again without getting off.

Cajun
23rd November 2004, 07:39
My Bikes reasonably new and is a right pain in the arse to find Neutral, its well documented, its not a biggy though, gives me something to do at the lights.

Oh and Cajun stick your comments up yer arse lol
i won't say a word, but i never had a problem with my slick suzuku gearboxes, they are known to make the best gearboxes for motorcycles.

and well kawasaki, there gearboxs are just like rest of there bikes dc:<

Hitcher
23rd November 2004, 07:55
After I stop, say at a stop sign or traffic lights, give way, etc. I shift down to first as I roll to a stop. Once I stop I try to tap it into neutral. I only succeed maybe 3 out of ten times.
Mate, you're riding a Kawasaki. Mr Kawasaki decided a few years ago to install a "positive neutral finder" on his bikes. The upsides of this are that you don't have to fanny around when stopped looking for neutral and that you don't (generally) inadvertently end up in neutral on your way from first to second (or vice versa). The downside is that you can't easily go neutral hunting while rolling.

Devil
23rd November 2004, 08:07
Depending on your particular gear box, if you're stuck in first and cant get neutral, try walk the bike forward 6 inches and try again. Sometimes if shit isnt lined up problem inside the bike it just wont go in.

Quasievil
23rd November 2004, 08:20
i won't say a word, but i never had a problem with my slick suzuku gearboxes, they are known to make the best gearboxes for motorcycles.

and well kawasaki, there gearboxs are just like rest of there bikes dc:<

Its okay mate, I still know that you and your gixxer generally eat MY DUST on the rides weve been on, so I can take it mate:done:

Quasievil
23rd November 2004, 08:21
i won't say a word, but i never had a problem with my slick suzuku gearboxes, they are known to make the best gearboxes for motorcycles.

and well kawasaki, there gearboxs are just like rest of there bikes dc:<
not that your bike has been out of first gear yet anyway !!!:ar15:

Blakamin
23rd November 2004, 08:46
How exactly does the "positive neutral finder" work??? all i can find is sales bs..

Cajun
23rd November 2004, 08:46
not that your bike has been out of first gear yet anyway !!!:ar15:
pfft 125kms in first gear, had mine just over 250km/h so far,

scumdog
23rd November 2004, 09:01
I find it best to go for neutral while rolling to a stop, even rolling forwards at a slow walking pace makes it heaps easier.
Mind you at the lights I don't bother, leave it in first and be ready to go. :bye:

Hitcher
23rd November 2004, 10:18
How exactly does the "positive neutral finder" work???
Outstandingly well!

Blakamin
23rd November 2004, 10:22
Outstandingly well!
lol... very f'n funny :eyepoke:
how does it operate? what are its mechanics? (and dont mention them by name!) :blink:

Hitcher
23rd November 2004, 10:28
lol... very f'n funny
how does it operate? what are its mechanics? (and dont mention them by name!)
You have learned quickly, Grasshopper. Exactly how it works I know not. It just stops you up shifting to second gear from first, once stationary. Mr K has been using this for a while and it appears to be a reliable and well-regarded feature on the world's best motorcycles...

Blakamin
23rd November 2004, 10:37
it appears to be a reliable and well-regarded feature on the world's best motorcycles...
so what model Ducatis are they on????
OOhhh you meant the kawasaki... ok.... :sick: <-= (he's even kwakka-green)

seriously, I wonder what they did to stop it shifting to 2nd... and why other manufacturers havent jumped on the bandwagon... my old Z9 never had a neutral hassle, so why did they go and possibly over-engineer something... not that I'm saying its a bad idea... just wonder why and how it works...

I NEED TO KNOW!!!! (brain starvation. happens when you work here) :sleep:

Motu
23rd November 2004, 11:15
You have learned quickly, Grasshopper. Exactly how it works I know not. It just stops you up shifting to second gear from first, once stationary. Mr K has been using this for a while and it appears to be a reliable and well-regarded feature on the world's best motorcycles...

Wow,fantastic! - let's reinvent the wheel....It's been done before,even before I was born! It was always a feature of Royal Enfidels and my Ural from the 70s had one too.What will thay think of next,drum brakes?

Ramius
23rd November 2004, 16:37
Seems I have the opposite problem, I cheat, I have an electronic display telling me what Gear I am in, however, when going from first to second, I always seem to put it in neutral...grrr. :pinch:

Hitcher
23rd November 2004, 16:39
Seems I have the opposite problem, I cheat, I have an electronic display telling me what Gear I am in, however, when going from first to second, I always seem to put it in neutral...grrr.
Suzuki gearbox. Enough said.

BUBBLE
23rd November 2004, 17:36
I like the clutch to 'bite' pretty soon after I start letting the lever out but are you saying this is bad for it?
And you mean under heavy acceleration just when you're changing gears right? As opposed to just under heavy acceleration?

My bike has had this prob for all the time I've had it aswell (3 years). I've given up being patient with it and just turn it off and then on again to get into neutral if I find I'm stuck in gear at the lights.

Having clutch bite just after you let it out is not bad but might still be contributing clutch drag while fully in. Its personal preferance really, specially if you have short fingers.
The last clutch I replaced was a Ducati 750 and it was so worn that it would slip just under acceleration, not just after changing gear.
If a clutch is slipping just after changing gear normally means your clucth cable is tight and needs lubing or even replacing. Or if you have a hydraulic system and clutch slips just after changing gear, slave cylinder needs dismantling, cleaning and new seals, possibly also master cylinder pulling to bits, cleaning and new seals.

aff-man
23rd November 2004, 17:38
i had no toubles finding neutral on your bike :o :o :o

BUBBLE
23rd November 2004, 17:45
i won't say a word, but i never had a problem with my slick suzuku gearboxes, they are known to make the best gearboxes for motorcycles.

and well kawasaki, there gearboxs are just like rest of there bikes dc:<

Cajun: The gearbox in my GSXR600K3 is pretty average really, clunks from gear to gear and occasionally get false neutral between 5th & 6th (yeah I know, I dont really need 6th till im doing around 225k's). Main reason for false neutral is because gear lever is adjusted too high (that reminds me, I'll go out right now and adjust it). What oil are you running, I was wondering if I would get a smoother gear change if I was running synthetic oil??

Warren
23rd November 2004, 19:52
I find If I stick it into neurtal while still rolling sometimes it won't click down into first without moving the bike a little bit foreward. So I always put it into first while rolling with the clutch in and when the bike stops I put it in neutral, that way I know I can click it down easily to 1st.

Cajun
24th November 2004, 06:42
Cajun: The gearbox in my GSXR600K3 is pretty average really, clunks from gear to gear and occasionally get false neutral between 5th & 6th (yeah I know, I dont really need 6th till im doing around 225k's). Main reason for false neutral is because gear lever is adjusted too high (that reminds me, I'll go out right now and adjust it). What oil are you running, I was wondering if I would get a smoother gear change if I was running synthetic oil??
Never had a problem with the gearbox, apart from once when i did apply enough pressure going up. but that was me not gear box

You should be running fully synthetic oil after the 6000km service. Oil i am running is shell, its not the greatest, but its what the local suzuki dealer uses, it was brain berand uses in there race bikes, so shrug, that do the trick,

crashe
2nd December 2004, 20:24
Sometimes I get it first time....sometimes I dont. :moon:

I have tried moving off in 1st and then stopping and going into neutral...
sometimes that works.... and sometimes it dont work. :moon:

If I know I am gonna be waiting at the lights and I cant get neutal no matter what I try, I will turn the bike off and then it goes into neutral straight away. :moon:

I got told that a lot of Yamaha's do it... so I was pleased that it wasn't just me. :msn-wink:

But having read that someone above suggested going from second to neutral as you are pulling up.... I shall try that out and see what happens....

Paul in NZ
2nd December 2004, 20:59
You will all have a different opinion to me.... But....

Motorcycle gearboxes are not like most car gearboxes... They are stuffed into a pretty small space and are usually some sort of constant mesh box...

The Clutches are odd to. The cable adjustment at the bar is just ONE adjustment, there are usually at least one other point to adjust the lift. Often 2. Then you have to get a constant even lift by making sure all the springs are OK and...

It's a bit complicated to go into in any great length because I know stuff all about anything after 1976 and I'm probably wrong but... If you want to see the basics I have several clutchs here in bits and it's easier to show you.. If you want to know you can come see or I could try and explain thus making and idiot of myself but.....

Do your bike a favour...

Don't sit at the lights in first gear with the clutch in. The plates bang about and wear.

Find neutral while you are still rolling (it's easy on the Guz - Find 1st, shift to 2nd and knock down into N)

Don't warm it up on the stand all the time.

Paul N

wari
9th December 2004, 07:16
:spudwave: ... :moon: ... :spudbooge ... :spudguita ...:spudbooge ... :sunny:

vifferman
9th December 2004, 07:35
May I speak? Too bad - I'm gonna anyway.

I have no trouble finding neutral on the VifFerrari. Mind you, on the FahrtSturm, I had no trouble either. But on SluttyFartBlast (the VFR750), finding neutral could always be very easy. Not like the VF500 - to find neutral, I had to move my foot fractionally on the gear lever, and it would snick into neutral....


Don't warm it up on the stand all the time.Yeah, I second that. To those of you who think you're doing your bike a favour by warming it thoroughly for several minutes before riding, you're WRONG. In fact, the best thing you can do for your bike, is start it up, and once it's coughed, farted and spluttered into life, ride off. On some bikes (such as the FahrtSturm) excessive idling on the sidestand is thought to be a contributing factor to various ailments (CCT failure on the VTR1000).

But you don't have to believe me - do your own research (carefully ignoring anecdotal evidence, of course).

pete376403
11th December 2004, 20:54
Wow,fantastic! - let's reinvent the wheel....It's been done before,even before I was born! It was always a feature of Royal Enfidels and my Ural from the 70s had one too.What will thay think of next,drum brakes?

Not quite the same as the Kawasaki, Enfields have a separate lever that selects the genuine neutral as opposed to all the false neutrals lurking around in there. What did the Urines have?

Motu
11th December 2004, 21:16
If you look on Merv's Coast to Coast report he has a picture of a Ural solo,you can see a vertical alloy lever,you could actual change gear by hand with it,but it wasn't positive stop,so you had to really feel the gear - kinda hard to do when you are trying to ride as well.Pushed all the way forward it stoped at neutral.

avgas
11th December 2004, 23:15
pity the gearbox gets fucked with burnouts, theyre so much fun

Motu
12th December 2004, 07:13
My Ural was VW powered - it was friction drive....

James Deuce
12th December 2004, 07:40
I have no trouble tapping into neutral. I do it as soon as I sit down at my desk at work.

Jackrat
12th December 2004, 08:50
Quite a few of the bikes I've owned were hard to get into neutral from a stop.I've always adjusted the cable at both ends or adjusted the clutch it's self.If I can't get it to change by messing with those then I just adapt to what ever tech' is reqiured for that particular bike.
My XS selected neutral easily when I first got it,now after new plates it's back to being what most XSs are,bloody awfull.
I can select from a stop by clicking it from first to second then giving it a slight tap an she then drops in sweet.If that won't work,it's time for an oil change.On the XS most clutch action issues after correct adjustment can be solved with an oil change.