Ultimate F3?

[CHOPPA]

I really dont know what the rules are for F3 or even what a fast f3 racer would be so im sorry if the title is a bit misleading but this looks like a sweet light race bike! also it doesnt look like they have dumped a bucket load of cash to get it to that point

http://aprilianews.blogspot.com/2007/09/aprilia-of-week-rsx550.html

[Deano]

I really dont know what the rules are for F3 or even what a fast f3 racer would be so im sorry if the title is a bit misleading but this looks like a sweet light race bike! also it doesnt look like they have dumped a bucket load of cash to get it to that point

http://aprilianews.blogspot.com/2007/09/aprilia-of-week-rsx550.html

That is very sexy and looks pretty nimble. I'm pretty sure it would be eligible for F3.

[James Deuce]

That is GLORIOUS!

[quallman1234]

Look at what won last years F3 Nat's.

A RS125 Running gear based YZ450F. "Tigcraft" or whatever.

[FROSTY]

that is very very sexy

[feral1]

Look at what won last years F3 Nat's.

A RS125 Running gear based YZ450F. "Tigcraft" or whatever.

I think you'll find Jason doesn't hold that honour, quallman. While very fast and he bagged few race wins, the 2007 title went to the Kawasaki ZXR400 of Mr Bolwell.

Yes, that RSVX would be eligible for F3. Would be a hoot to build and ride. Go to it people, someone build one and campaign it... :)

Feral

[Coyote]

That'd make a sweet road bike too. Absolutely beautiful.

[evol mas]

wow that looks like a bit of fun a one make class of them would make for some fun racing!!!

[Coyote]

Just been thinking, it's practically a motard in sportbike clothing isn't it? It has the road bike suspension, but so do race motards anyway, and it's still skinny with what looks like a high centre of gravity.

Shit, I want one now more than anything.

[madmal64]

Very vey sexy looking piece of kit. I suppose it helps when you work for the company.

[evol mas]

one of the mechanics from boyd honda has done a similar thing with a crf450 they are a very trick little machine with great potential

[quallman1234]

I think you'll find Jason doesn't hold that honour, quallman. While very fast and he bagged few race wins, the 2007 title went to the Kawasaki ZXR400 of Mr Bolwell.

Yes, that RSVX would be eligible for F3. Would be a hoot to build and ride. Go to it people, someone build one and campaign it... :)

Feral

My bad just assumed! :nono:

[pete376403]

There is a class in the US called Super Singles which use 450 motocross engines - what class would that equate to in NZ. The idea appears to have some merit i all the major manufacturers are making 450 engines and if the specs were controlled it should be reasonably affordable

http://450moto.com/

[bistard]

Look at what won last years F3 Nat's.

A RS125 Running gear based YZ450F. "Tigcraft" or whatever.

Well,I have heard abit of a rumour,that Jasons next bike will be a Tigcraft chassis with a Aprilia 550 twin motor,so watch this space

[GSVR]

So let me get this clear.

You are allowed to use non-production based racing bike frame in F3 ?

Very first sentence of the F3 rules in the latest rulebook/manual
"The Folmula 3 Championship class will exist primarily for Production Based machines ....."

but you are allowed to get the lastest racebike from off the GP circuit and repower it with a production competition (non roadgoing) dirtbike motor?

[James Deuce]

So let me get this clear.



You are allowed to use non-production based racing bike frame in F3 ?



Very first sentence of the F3 rules in the latest rulebook/manual

"The Folmula 3 Championship class will exist primarily for Production Based machines ....."



but you are allowed to get the lastest racebike from off the GP circuit and repower it with a production competition (non roadgoing) dirtbike motor?

You can buy an Aprilia RS125 from a dealer for $9995. It has lights and shit.

You can buy an Aprilia 550 Motard from a dealer for $17k or so. It has lights and shit.

[svs]

i think the appropriate word is "primarily". it doesn't say "exclusively" or "only".

i think the issue might be with the over 500cc and 3 or more valves per cylinder would mean that it would have to retain the standard OEM airbox, air filter and carb.

as long as it complied with that, it would be awesome.

[quallman1234]

Jim it was the Honda RS Frame not the Aprilla RS frame. The Honda frame is far more supeiror to the Road Going Aprilla Frame.

For the record the Honda RS Frame is Produced (2000 odd a year or something) and you can only get one what is 3 years old.

Plus adding a heavier engine in to such a frame make's alot of other things difficult.

[GSVR]

i think the appropriate word is "primarily". it doesn't say "exclusively" or "only".

i think the issue might be with the over 500cc and 3 or more valves per cylinder would mean that it would have to retain the standard OEM airbox, air filter and carb.

as long as it complied with that, it would be awesome.

We've been down this road before over a year ago if you remember Phil. I know what your views were on it then.

Funny how you can't put an RG250 engine into an RS250 frame. Thats against the rules. But as long as its a fourstroke and fits the engine rules for the motor your using your sweet.

Last years nationals at Manfeild there was a repowered RS125 bike (Brent Symes).

I heard to the alot of the old RG250 engines were in a state of tune approaching a RS250 motor anyway.

[James Deuce]

Jim it was the Honda RS Frame not the Aprilla RS frame. The Honda frame is far more supeiror to the Road Going Aprilla Frame.

For the record the Honda RS Frame is Produced (2000 odd a year or something) and you can only get one what is 3 years old.

Plus adding a heavier engine in to such a frame make's alot of other things difficult.
That's an Aprilia RS125 frame. Read the German site. Look at the frame, that's no Honda frame.

[Sully60]

That's an Aprilia RS125 frame. Read the German site. Look at the frame, that's no Honda frame.

Sorry I might have missed something here? But the frame of the pictured bike is an SXV frame. As the article says stick on RSVR forks, some Flash bodywork, clipons and go!

[ardomus]

Does anyone know more about the new KTM sportbike soon to be relaesed...from what i read it looks like a single cyclinder 80hp sport bike..could be good f3 bike????

[skypig]

What capacity are the all dominating SV650s?

4-3 Twin cylinder four strokes shall be limited as follows:
a) Up to 500cc, no restrictions apart from fuel as above.
b) Over 500cc, two valves per cylinder, are restricted to 750cc and fuel as above, over 640cc must not be water-cooled.

Also converted MX/supermotard might run foul of:
B: Any machine complying with Rule No 34-2-3 and 34-5 is automatically excluded from
entering any Formula 3 event.
Would be a shame, the aforementioned converted CRF450 is a sweet looking ride:niceone:

[pete376403]

What capacity are the all dominating SV650s?

4-3 Twin cylinder four strokes shall be limited as follows:
a) Up to 500cc, no restrictions apart from fuel as above.
b) Over 500cc, two valves per cylinder, are restricted to 750cc and fuel as above, over 640cc must not be water-cooled.:

Suzuki SV650S
Engine: 645 cc, four-stroke, liquid cooled, 90° V-twin, DOHC, 8-valves, TSCC
Bore & Stroke: 81.0 x 62.6 mm

I guess that is near enough for MNZ

[diesel pig]

What capacity are the all dominating SV650s?

4-3 Twin cylinder four strokes shall be limited as follows:
a) Up to 500cc, no restrictions apart from fuel as above.
b) Over 500cc, two valves per cylinder, are restricted to 750cc and fuel as above, over 640cc must not be water-cooled.

Actually rule C covers the SV650's

c) Over 500cc three or more valves per cylinder, are restricted to 650cc and fuel as above.
Additionally these machines must retain the standard OEMair box, air filter element and
carburettor (with the exception of removable jets or throttle body, including injector).

[skypig]

Thanks makes sense now:bash:

[mynameis]

Ok just a quick question to the ones in know. Common bikes raced in F3 are 250 2 stroke, 400 inline 4 and 650 V twins.

In my opinion the RS250 would be the best choice to race as they are light, suspension is great, brakes are awesome and the handling is a dream.

They all would do just over 200 k's. What's in thy 400 or 650 V twin that it's so popular. By the time you've done up your SV650 it would hit 10 grand anyway.

Why not a RS 250? I don't think there are many on the RS in F3 right?

[k14]

Jim it was the Honda RS Frame not the Aprilla RS frame. The Honda frame is far more supeiror to the Road Going Aprilla Frame.

For the record the Honda RS Frame is Produced (2000 odd a year or something) and you can only get one what is 3 years old.
Don't know where you got that info from? The RS125 frame (Honda) at its peak may have had that many produced but this year about 20 or 30 were made. If I got in soon enough then I could have got one for about $15k. No point in getting an 08 cause they haven't changed one bit since 95. Only diff is that a new one is not been crashed etc.

The tigcraft that easton had his YZF motor in is made by a company called tigcraft. They use the main parts of the RS frame with a few modifications and a different swingarm.

That bike shown on the first page is very cool. One of those engines in a tigcraft frame could well be very competitive. Might be too powerful for the frame though?

[k14]

That's an Aprilia RS125 frame. Read the German site. Look at the frame, that's no Honda frame.
No its not, its the standard frame the engine comes in. The fairing is off an Aprilia RS125.

[Ivan]

Its an idea I have been thinking of making a nice 450 motox bike into a road racer

[Dodgy]

In my opinion the RS250 would be the best choice to race as they are light, suspension is great, brakes are awesome and the handling is a dream.

Why not a RS 250? I don't think there are many on the RS in F3 right?

Dude, WTF?? 250 GP bikes (RS Honda, TZ Yamaha, etc) are F2 bikes :doh:! You are right tho, they would do well in F3 :laugh:

Oh yeah, and the RS125 frame of course was changed in 1997, it had bracing added down the engine mount rails

[Toast]

Dude, WTF?? 250 GP bikes (RS Honda, TZ Yamaha, etc) are F2 bikes :doh:! You are right tho, they would do well in F3 :laugh:

Oh yeah, and the RS125 frame of course was changed in 1997, it had bracing added down the engine mount rails

Pretty sure they're F3 bikes:

See part 1

http://www.motorcyclingnz.co.nz/download/Appendix_B_Formula_Three_Championship_Regulations. pdf

[k14]

There is a bit of confusion I think between an aprilia RS250 (which is a production 250 and can race in F3) and a honda RS250 which is a GP bike and only eligible for F2. A RS250 frame with an engine transplant is however allowed in F3 I believe.

[mynameis]

Dude, WTF?? 250 GP bikes (RS Honda, TZ Yamaha, etc) are F2 bikes :doh:! You are right tho, they would do well in F3 :laugh:

Oh yeah, and the RS125 frame of course was changed in 1997, it had bracing added down the engine mount rails


There is a bit of confusion I think between an aprilia RS250 (which is a production 250 and can race in F3) and a honda RS250 which is a GP bike and only eligible for F2. A RS250 frame with an engine transplant is however allowed in F3 I believe.

Pwnd ya n0o0b I am talking about Aprilia RS 250 :p Not Honda race RS 250.

[koba]

Seems like a great bike.
I want one.
Hopefully Aprillia will see enough interest to produce somthing similar.
It would have a strong market being light and good for small people (Think Cagiva raptor) while still being fast and agile. Probably lovley power deliver too.

[mynameis]

Seems like a great bike.
I want one.
Hopefully Aprillia will see enough interest to produce somthing similar.
It would have a strong market being light and good for small people (Think Cagiva raptor) while still being fast and agile. Probably lovley power deliver too.

Still don't understand why they aren't being used over ZXR 400 and SV 650 aye.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Does anyone know more about the new KTM sportbike soon to be relaesed...from what i read it looks like a single cyclinder 80hp sport bike..could be good f3 bike????


me too!

http://www.ktm690duke.com/

LC4 Duke I think its called. I emailed the importer and the useless fuckers didnt even respond to my email.

cocks.

the good thinga bout the KTM is you could run it in Bears as well.

[HenryDorsetCase]

actually you could with the Aprilia also.

It looks like what the Aprilia guy has done is what the 450moto guys do: new front forks, existing wheels, shorter shock add clipons and fairing: instant racebike.

[koba]

Still don't understand why they aren't being used over ZXR 400 and SV 650 aye.

What is they? a raptor?

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Sports/auction-141861451.htm?p=2



Compared to say this as an SV650 starting point.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Sports/auction-142637433.htm?key=306598


$6000 Dollars may have somthing to do with it...

[HenryDorsetCase]

that SV will owe you near $10k on the track:

$6000 to buy.
$500tyres
$1500 shock
$1200fork rebuild/emulators/springs
PC3/dyno time/pipe say $2k
race bodywork say $500 plus fitting.

plus you need some spares.

You are MUCH better off buying one already done.

or the KTM which has white power both ends.

[mynameis]

What is they? a raptor?

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Sports/auction-141861451.htm?p=2



Compared to say this as an SV650 starting point.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Sports/auction-142637433.htm?key=306598


$6000 Dollars may have somthing to do with it...

Wrong you're on about something else read my previous post.

[koba]

Wrong you're on about something else read my previous post.

oh, sorry bout that. Referace to the subject woulkd help tho coz just looking at this thread amkes my brain spin with Rs250's Sv 650s, honda Rs250s, Ktm Blah blahhs and oh god its all too much for me..! :confused: :o

Maybe the APRILLIA RS250 aint favoured so much because they aren't as common, are pretty expensive to buy official bits for at least, are 2 strokes and aint quite as light as they are made out to be. Off the shelf I think they actually weigh in at over 160kg.

SV 650 is a plug and play bike, especially with the new pro-twins class. buy, strip, wire and race. There was even one with a plate still on the back at nations in the weekend going faster than I Imagine a similar cost RS250 would muster with the same rider.

Thats not to say It wouldn't be the way I would go about an F3 effort if I won the Lotto!

If it was powerball I would think about making my own version of the bike this thread is supposed to be about :eek:

[Deano]

Still don't understand why they aren't being used over ZXR 400 and SV 650 aye.

I got beaten fair and square by a 91-94 RGV250 at Paeroa. I'm sure it had been fettled with though. (It had similar corner exit acceleration and higher top end.)

I was battling (and mostly beating) 90 RGV's and other 250 2 strokes in VMCC so it was a bit of a surpirise.

I'm sure the SV is going to be more reliable than a 2 stroke though.

[mynameis]

Thanks.

But we all love 2 strokes don't we.

[mynameis]

Maybe it could be this little beauty here :

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Sports/auction-143565668.htm?key=259243

[feral1]

Mynameis: a Aprillia RS250 would get eaten alive. You'd need to do a lot of tuning and have it right on the verge of blowing up to get a RGV motor to produce enough power to be top five in F3 in NZ.
Some people have got nice ones tho Steve74 on this site has got a great RGV SP, demon in the Grey street races
K14: you say the RSVX engine might be a bit to much for the Tigcraft frame. Perhaps. But it probably should hold together sweet. If rumours are rightwe'll find out next year as J. Easton is getting one together. I suspect the biggest concern won't be the frame stayin together but the RSVX motor once you tune the nuts of it. I think a guy in our Canterbury club who ran a full motard one last year had a bit of trouble with the motor.
Should be an awesome bike tho, and we all know Mr Easton is fast.. aye.. :)
I think Cam Horgan is equally thinking about a F3 special...
Enjoy the rest of your Nats Kirk, you're doin it man. Good to see you charge at Manfield. Bring on Puke.
Feral

[gav]

How about something like this? Uses a Kawi ER6N motor!
95 hp and weighing 95 kg? :2thumbsup
http://www.3upracing.co.uk/blogs/index.php?blog=2

[mynameis]

How about something like this? Uses a Kawi ER6N motor!
95 hp and weighing 95 kg? :2thumbsup
http://www.3upracing.co.uk/blogs/index.php?blog=2

Isn't that a inline 4 600 though?

[svr]

SV 650 is a plug and play bike, especially with the new pro-twins class. buy, strip, wire and race. There was even one with a plate still on the back at nations in the weekend going faster than I Imagine a similar cost RS250 would muster with the same rider.

That was me - interesting discussion for me as I raced 250's 89-93 and did basically the same lap-times as now on the SV - I think they're similar in speed but the 250's do blow up and also, high-side you pretty quick. SV's are user-friendly and mine hasn't so much as burnt oil or had me out of the seat in 30,000 kays (6,000 on the track), so thats nice. You could build a competitive F3 250 (need another 2 seconds a lap, 250's did 15s @ manfield - a power track - on slicks back in '93) but it would cost and riding wise it would be `edgy' and hard to get that last second out of it. Also racing slower but light, superior handling bikes can be a frustration exercise when racing faster bikes taking different lines etc.
Aprilia 450 v-twin in a factory racing (GP) RS 250 chassis I reckon... - 110kg 70hp $$$$$$ That would be nice to ride.
Cheers,
Cookie

[roogazza]

So the difference between an F3 SV and a pro Twin SV is what a second ? who has the lap records for both at Manfeild and what are they ? (suppose I should ask Glen ?)
Apart from motor they are the same ? (ok some have better forks) G.

[svr]

So the difference between an F3 SV and a pro Twin SV is what a second ? who has the lap records for both at Manfeild and what are they ? (suppose I should ask Glen ?)
Apart from motor they are the same ? (ok some have better forks) G.

From memory:
F3 Terry Fitzgerald 1:12.8
PT Karl Morgan 1:14.8
Some tracks in the SI it was closer (check out mylaps.com)
Interesting: 250 production '93/94 (w/slicks) about 1:15.5 I think (Ramage and Young)

[roogazza]

From memory:
F3 Terry Fitzgerald 1:12.8
PT Karl Morgan 1:14.8
Some tracks in the SI it was closer (check out mylaps.com)
Interesting: 250 production '93/94 (w/slicks) about 1:15.5 I think (Ramage and Young)
Thanks SVR , bit out of touch with records.
Ramage ??? really !! we used to call them the damage brothers !!! Gaz.

[deanohit]

Isn't that a inline 4 600 though?

Nope, 650 parrallel twin.

[Chops]

Until I logged in and saw the pic, I thought you were all talking about the Spagforth bike, with the Aprilia RS chassis and SXV550 engine. Very sexy, all speccy suspension bits...
I saw a post by the guy who built it in a forum. The first time they took it out, it went really well, with a European international rider and a litle setup, it got to within a second of the same guy on his TZ. The second time they took it to the track:weep: The engine blew up so thoroughly, the only salvagable part was the rear cylinder head...

[codgyoleracer]

So the difference between an F3 SV and a pro Twin SV is what a second ? who has the lap records for both at Manfeild and what are they ? (suppose I should ask Glen ?)
Apart from motor they are the same ? (ok some have better forks) G.

Hey Gaz,
Primary difference in lap time between the two in order of importance: Brakes are way better on the F3 bike, engine power is +10 - 15%, weight is up to 20kg lighter, front suspension parts are open on the F3 also.

I rode a pro-twin engined Sv at Pukey nats this year (my F3 bike had a broken engine), with my suspension etc fitted & got to within 1.5 seconds of my best time on my F3 bike. Doesnt sound alot -but at Pukekohe you go looooong way on the back straight distance wise in 1.5 seconds aye.

Glen