Dropped helmet: Throw out, or risk?

[beanz]

Was being a clumsy bastard the other day, and dropped my helmet from about waist height onto concrete. It hit square on the top, and bounced a little. Now its got a few marks on it, but no visable crack.

Its a $200 Cirus/HJC.

Question is, do I heave it, or keep it? I've heard people talk about never risking it, for various reasons, but I'm pretty sure the outer plastic shell isn't damaged, and theres no reason for the foam/polystyrene inner layer to have been compressed.

Any opinions?

[Blakamin]

depends on how much you like your head????

not much help, huh?
and the thing is you'll never know until an accident... the unfortunate thing about helmets.

there should be a cheap way of x-raying helmets so you get to have your mind put at ease

[Sniper]

Throw it out bro. Never risk it. Its an expensive choice but its better thasn a skull fracture if you bin it

[justsomeguy]

Depends on whether you can get yourself a new head if something does go wrong.

I hear they are quite difficult to come by.

As for helmets I know several shops that have a lot of them on special.

You decide :shifty:

[Mr Skid]

I doubt if you'll find anyone here that'll tell you it still ok..

Do you think it's worth risking it? I'd be happy to pay $200 to avoid another concussion.

It seems like quite a good price compared to memory loss and other neurological deficits.

[Hitcher]

Your helmet. Your head. Your health. Your call.

[bear]

Yeah man, bin it and start again.

[MOTOXXX]

for the sake of 200 beans just replace it.
need all the protection you can get and a head is important.

[Dr Bob]

I'd keep it for when you weren't going to have an accident.

like the Irish (sorry to any fellow celts, but the joke just doesn't seem to work any other way) fire crew.

They just got a new fire engine but they were reluctant to get rid of the old one. They did the maths and realised on may occasions they would need more that one fire engine but also realised that on arriving at the suspected scene of a fire that many of them were false alarms. So they decided to keep the old fire engine for the false alarms.

[jrandom]

Jokes on that theme are legion.

For instance, the one about the Irish rail company notice stating that the last carriage would no longer be attached to trains, as it was subjected to noise and bumping.

[Hitcher]

Irish jokes in the proper place please, to be sure, to be sure; i.e. not this or the Scottish thread...

[750Y]

mate if You're a size 52 you should definitely throw it away, then buy my undropped one i have for sale 8-).

[jrandom]

Now, Mr Hitcher, I am thinking that Irish jokes are a right and proper manner of content for a thread about protecting the awd brain, being as that nation as a whole is a good example of what happens when the results of successive head injuries manage to find genetic expression over a large population.

Of course, we could always talk about the French, instead.

Vive la fromage!

[Hitcher]

Of course, we could always talk about the French, instead.

Or, to quote Austin Powers' father Nigel, "There are two things I find repulsive -- intolerance to other cultures and the Dutch!"

[Coldkiwi]

If it were a $1400 Arai, the answer mightn't be so easy beanz, but a $200 lid? Forget it mate! Kept it on hand for when you go go-karting or something (now THOSE helmets are dodgy) but use a new one for road riding.

[Riff Raff]

I dropped my helmet and broke the visor mechanism. Continued my ride with visor taped on, and bought a new one asap. So you've thrown another $200 down the drain. It's only money, and it's a small price for peace of mind.

[Quasievil]

If it were a $1400 Arai, the answer mightn't be so easy beanz, but a $200 lid? Forget it mate! Kept it on hand for when you go go-karting or something (now THOSE helmets are dodgy) but use a new one for road riding.
I went to a ARAI educational night at Hamilton M/C run by the importer, they said if its Fibreglass it can withstand a fall of a bike no problems at all. If another material likey it woould have suffered a impact shock which may cause a problem in another hit.
Make what you want of it, but they did demonstrate this with helmets cut in half.
You could take it to the distributor they may be able to assess it against manuafacturer guidelines?
good luck, I just wrecked mine so Im bringing in another from the states so I can sympathize (no I didnt crash lol)

[loosebruce]

I'm with CK on this one to mate, put a price on being brain damaged for the rest of your life and $500+ on a new helmet doesn't sound all that bad does it, i spent almost a grand on my HJC a couple of years back and wouldn't even blink at doing it again, infact HJC are bringing out some tasty looking carbon fibre helmets soon, mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm carbon fibbbbbbreeeeee

[loosebruce]

I just wrecked mine so Im bringing in another from the states so I can sympathize (no I didnt crash lol)

Maybe when you do crash it'll knock some sense into ya and you'll buy a gixxer next time :shake:

[Holy Roller]

A new helmet I saw the other day at Mount Motorcycles in the BoP was a "Can" retailed at $99 full face or open face, same helmet at Bike Force in Rotovegas retailed at $140 or you can try "ridergear or Trikeworks" on Trade Me they reside in Taupo new gear great prices. One tip I found was that if you were not in a hurry to buy just add the item to your watchlist, after the auction you get sent a buy now price. This price offered has usually been lower than the starting bid price.

[Cajun]

A new helmet I saw the other day at Mount Motorcycles in the BoP was a "Can" retailed at $99 full face or open face, same helmet at Bike Force in Rotovegas retailed at $140 or you can try "ridergear or Trikeworks" on Trade Me they reside in Taupo new gear great prices. One tip I found was that if you were not in a hurry to buy just add the item to your watchlist, after the auction you get sent a buy now price. This price offered has usually been lower than the starting bid price.
Holy Roller, i have one of those helmets as my round down one its acutally called Vcan. most dealers in tauranga have them around for $99 dollars, they arn't to bad helmets

[crashe]

What the heck just go and buy the Vcan $99 helmet for the time being, until you can afford a better quality one.... Never risk you head. :Pokey:

Braindead :brick: vs brain-that-works.... :love: hmmmm Brain-that-works.... will do it for me.

[onearmedbandit]

You answered the question yourself in the title to this thread. "Throw out, or risk?" Its like saying, 'should I not put this revolver with only one chamber full to my head and pull the trigger, or should I risk it?'

[Jamezo]

What the heck just go and buy the Vcan $99 helmet for the time being, until you can afford a better quality one.... Never risk you head. :Pokey:

Braindead :brick: vs brain-that-works.... :love: hmmmm Brain-that-works.... will do it for me.

so it's better to have a new cheapo helmet than a more expensive one that has been dropped?

[SuperDave]

Helmets, they range from the $99 to what about $1500 or something? What are the differences if they all meet saftey standards? Would the $99 helmet actually protect you less? Just wondering about it now. What makes a helmet pass saftey standards and get that little sticker on it?

[Stinkwheeler]

Just train your conscience to nag you non stop until you get a new helmet. Simple peace of mind (I think?)

And doesn't carbon fibre shatter?

[Blakamin]

Helmets, they range from the $99 to what about $1500 or something? What are the differences if they all meet saftey standards? Would the $99 helmet actually protect you less? Just wondering about it now. What makes a helmet pass saftey standards and get that little sticker on it?
Comfort, road noise....

[k14]

Personally I don't think it would make a difference to the impact absorption. If it was me I wouldn't worry. I have seen some experimental tests on the net somewhere of this guy that dropped helmets from a 2 story building and then crash tested them against brand new ones. The results were that there was no distinguishable difference in impact absorption from the dropped ones to the brand new ones.

If the helmet was screwed after a 1m or so drop I wouldn't want to wear it in a 100kph+ bin.

But its your head and you decide what you want to do with it. I wouldn't worry.

[Marknz]

Here's an exercise to go through that will help you make your own decision. Was taught this one by the paramedic who helped me out after a race crash in Aussie.

Take a 20c coin and tap it around the shell of the helmet. If the note produced by this tapping changes in the area that you dropped it, then the helmet is damaged, and in the case of my helmet in that particular situation, it was taken away so I couldn't ride with it again. If the note is consistent all over the shell, it is deemed not to be damaged and you may use the helmet again.

Still, it's your choice and your head at the end of the day.

[DarkNinja]

i start getting heavy breathing and about to pass out when people touch my helmet, you would be suprised at how many people dont know that after 1 hit, its gooone.

[vifferman]

Seems to be a lot of opinion, a lot of adhering to scare stories propagated by certain helmet manufacturers, but not a lot of fact.
Mind you, you did ask for opinions.

I've heard people talk about never risking it, for various reasons, but I'm pretty sure the outer plastic shell isn't damaged, and theres no reason for the foam/polystyrene inner layer to have been compressed.I agree. Thermoplastic resin helmets tend to shrug this kind of impact off very well, unlike fibreglass or mixed-fibre RP shells. It's the way they're designed.
Fibre-reinforced plastics are generally designed to absorb the impact to a certain extent (without disintegrating) with the shell, then residual impact with the polysyrene liner, and the rest with the soft 'comfort' liner.
When thermoplastic shelled helmets were first introduced in the 70s (anyone remember the Polstar?), there was a lot of controversy about the fact that compared to fibreglass shells, they tended to remain intact on impact, so absorbed less of the initial impact. I'm sure some of this negativity was from companies who produced fibreglass helmets and were economically threatened by the cheaper and less vulnerable (to knocks and drops) injection-moulded newcomers.

Bonez, your helmet should be fine, but if you want total piece of mind, just replace it to remove any nagging doubts you may have. As others have said, it's only $200.

[Dr Bob]

Ditto, I will always buy plastic. Being a commuter and more likely to be storing my helmet on the floor of my office, in the spare room or in a cupboard I know it will be subjected to the odd small knock. I am not a plastics engineer but I believe that the thermo formed shell will probably not get any deep cracks or major loss of strength. Plastic is cheaper and more robust, but can tend to be heavier and not work as well. The only thing that will cause significant damage is if you repeatedly tap it with a piece of metal across its whole surface :laugh:

[bear]

But isn't that like driving a 1970 Holden or a 2004 Holden, where if an impact were to occur the equipment would take more of the impact, and you would take less.

Dr Bob, do you have a fibreglass type helmet for weekend or longer rides?

[Dr Bob]

But isn't that like driving a 1970 Holden or a 2004 Holden, where if an impact were to occur the equipment would take more of the impact, and you would take less.

Dr Bob, do you have a fibreglass type helmet for weekend or longer rides?
Unfortuately I no longer get to do this, we have a car. Can't fit the kid and the missus on the bike.

[bear]

Unfortuately I no longer get to do this, we have a car. Can't fit the kid and the missus on the bike.

There is always the side car option - but then I guess you can't really call that a motorcycle can you. :ride:

[beanz]

Thanks firestormer, you seem to be the first person who's actually rationally thought about it.

I completely agree with the "being totally cautious about helmets and heads, and brain damage, etc", but theres gotta be a point where you stop and think about whats going on with the internals of a helmet, and how a drop will actually affect its shock absorbing qualities.

I mean, what if you drop it from 10cm? 15cm? 20cm? Surely you won't throw it away from a 10cm drop, so where do you cut it? No-one would reuse a helmet after it had been dropped from a 10 story building (regardless of "tests"), but noone would throw one out after they dropped it from 10cm. Theres gotta be somewhere in between where the drop actually permanently changes the helmet, so it won't absorb impact aswell. Thats what I'm trying to figure out... has my drop affected the helmet.

I just don't have a spare $200-$400 to spend on a new helmet, when my current one is possibly as-good-as-new. If we go around blindly replacing every "risky" aspect of motorcycle riding, won't we be actually riding 2ton bikes with rollcages, big springs facing every direction, and wearing a middle-ages suit of armour?.... or drive a car.

Also, thinking about the technical aspect of a typical head hitting the tarmac, the biggest forces to be absorbed are probably going to be to either side of your head. Thats probably where helmet designers design the most absorption to be. So, maybe a knock to the top of a helmet might not be all that serious.

OK, so it probably sounds like I'm trying to justify a decision to save money and keep the helmet. I tend to do that. But until someone can convince me of a technical reason why the drop would have affected the helmet, I think based on my current analysis of the situation, I'll add a wee bit more risk to an already very risky activity, and keep using it.

But hey, I'm always thirsty for knowledge. Does anyone know of a website which explains the technical aspects of a helmets force-absorbing system?

[Stinger]

I think your helmet would get more damage from being in the sun for a few hours than from a small drop. I doubt there would be any significant change in it.

[almonster]

Personally I don't think it would make a difference to the impact absorption. If it was me I wouldn't worry. I have seen some experimental tests on the net somewhere of this guy that dropped helmets from a 2 story building and then crash tested them against brand new ones. The results were that there was no distinguishable difference in impact absorption from the dropped ones to the brand new ones.

If the helmet was screwed after a 1m or so drop I wouldn't want to wear it in a 100kph+ bin.

But its your head and you decide what you want to do with it. I wouldn't worry.
im with you on this one if you come off at speed you want it to take more than one hit

[Menial]

fuck, I wouldnt trust my head In one of those helmets at the best of times.

[Redstar]

:mobile: This is what you must do..submit your helmet to the DSIR helmet testing department, you will find them in the Yelllow pages under ''testing division" they certify helmets to NZ1894 CE 12 accreditation, It will only cost $30 Cheaper than a new helmet even at $200. First they will carry out an ultrasonic Xray test this will show any errant hairline fractures. next they will stress test the shell using a compression tester, next an ultraviolet infra scan this checks for exteria delamination fibrosis.(fishures that might later cause problems. and finally to make sure you are safe the helmet is placed in a sim. Jig dummy head and a steel bolt is fired from 1 m at a force of 600kg point impact ( you can wear the helmet with confidence after this test)
Ps I made this crap up! i do that a lot.... :moon:

[beanz]

From what I've found out about helmets, they usually consist of an outer plastic or composite shell, glued to a 20mm layer of suitable density polystyrene, covered in some foam padding inside for comfort. Some of the more expensive helmets might be different, but essentially thats all there is to them... nothing too tricky.

The polystyrene layer is designed to compress around the point of impact in a crash, to absorb the forces. This is an irreversible action; the polystyrene can only compress once.

When I dropped it, and the outer plastic shell at the dome of the helmet hit the ground, the plastic would have been deflected inwards a bit. I guess about 1-3mm, as compared to the impacts it would need to be designed for, this was a tiny one. The inner polystyrene layer would subsequently have been compressed 1-3mm too, in that local area. The plastic shell then would've bounced back to its original shape, but the polystyrene would probably stay compressed and become locally delaminated from the shell.

So, the drop would probably have reduced the maximum atainable impact absorption by a small amount, but I believe this is negligable.

I also believe the polystyrene has partly or fully expanded back to its original dimensions, because I tried the "tapping test" (explained in someone elses post), and the tapping was exactly the same note all over the surface of the helmet, indicated no hollow area where the polystyrene was compressed or a different density.

All materials have an "elastic" region at the start of their deformation where they bouce back to their original dimensions, eg bending a piece of metal, squeezing a solid rubber ball, or in this case squeezing a block of polystyrene. I think the drop I gave the helmet only deformed the polystyrene inside its "elastic region" and wasn't enough to permanently deform it.

Cheers for all your opinions guys. :-)

[Drunken Monkey]

Mine got hit by a one-bounce-four cricket ball today. Couldn't even see the (cherry) mark. I'm not going to replace it. It'll be mint, bro...er...I think...

[Fordy]

RiDE magazine, affectionately nicknamed DiRE, did a series of tests in issue 96, April 2003.

The test:
HJC ZF8 helmets, dropped from 1m, 2m and 3m onto a concrete slab and one out of the box for a control.

The results:
All helmets passed the European test (IMHO the graphs for them all were practically indistinguishable, ie the drop did not appear to affect performance).

Conclusion:
Our industry experts are right to err on the side of caution. Even though our graphs show this particular model of HJC helmet absorbed enough impact to still pass ECE 22:05 even after dropping it from three metres, it doesn't mean you can be careless with your helmet. You need to use a bit of common sense. Other impacts, even smaller impacts than our one metre drop test could cause invisible fractures that may cause your helmet to under perform in an accident. If you drop your helmet and you're even slightly worried you may have done it some damage, buy a new one.

Obviously they're jouno's and not scientists and they want to sell magazines and not rigorously test their theory. Make of that what you will.

[avgas]

i dont trust $200 helmets in the first place, so if it had been dropped i really wouldnt trust it

[inlinefour]

i dont trust $200 helmets in the first place, so if it had been dropped i really wouldnt trust it

But at the end of the day its not my head, and by the sounds of all this people will do whatever they wanted even after asking for opinions. I go and purchase a new helmet, but I'm fortunate enough to be able to afford it :done:

[Ragingrob]

Just been reading through this thread as I managed to knock my HJC helmet off a waist high table :blank: this afternoon, it fell about 65cm. The interesting thing in my case is that I think it landed on the visor which was open at the time! It has only resulted in a few scratches down the middle of what was my lovely tinted visor, it doesn't affect vision much at all even. There are no scratches anywhere else, so yeah I assume it must've landed on the open visor.

What would you make of this? I think that the helmet itself should be still absolutely fine, but would like to hear some feedback!

[breakaway]

I'd throw it out and get a new one.

[Ragingrob]

I'd throw it out and get a new one.

Referring to the first post or my one?

[breakaway]

Yours. A helmet is a thing which when you need it, you really need it. Can't be taking chances with that.

[Ragingrob]

Hmmm yeah, of course I'm not wanting to have to pay money out like anyone lol, it's just my thoughts are that since it landed on the visor then none of the inner or outta protective shell of the helmet got touched at all...

[Swoop]

What surface material did it impact with?
A carpeted floor?
A concrete floor?
Punji pit spikes?

[nodrog]

id keep it, 65cms is just over half a metre, if your helmet is farked after that i would hate to see what would happen to it at 100kph.

do people replace their helmets when the are hit by stones/small rocks flicked up by other bikes? these travel at far greater velocity, and impact to a more localised area, in theory these would create more damage than the drop you described.

if there was no obvious damage to the shell and the foam inside (pull back the liner and have a look) i would keep it, but hey its my head.

its a decision you will have to make.

[Maki]

Just been reading through this thread as I managed to knock my HJC helmet off a waist high table :blank: this afternoon, it fell about 65cm. The interesting thing in my case is that I think it landed on the visor which was open at the time! It has only resulted in a few scratches down the middle of what was my lovely tinted visor, it doesn't affect vision much at all even. There are no scratches anywhere else, so yeah I assume it must've landed on the open visor.

What would you make of this? I think that the helmet itself should be still absolutely fine, but would like to hear some feedback!

Get a new one for yourself but keep it for pillion riders. :devil2:

[Ragingrob]

What surface material did it impact with?
A carpeted floor?
A concrete floor?
Punji pit spikes?

The flat concrete in the garage, with a couple of little stones about to cause the scratches to the visor!

[Swoop]

I wouldn't be too worried about it. I dropped mine (about the same height) in a shop not too long ago, and their floor had vinyl on top of concrete.
"It should be fine" however is not what you want to hear. If peace of mind is important, replace it. If you wouldn't wear it, why would you even consider giving it to a pillion to wear? 2c +gst.

[YellowDog]

It's your call. Only you know how severe it was. I would imagine that the opening for the visor is pretty strong and the knock may not have weakened the helmet.

Next time stick your foot out to cushion the impact.

[Ragingrob]

It's your call. Only you know how severe it was. I would imagine that the opening for the visor is pretty strong and the knock may not have weakened the helmet.

Next time stick your foot out to cushion the impact.

Oh it actually landed on the visor! Like the visor was up, above the opening, and the impact was between the actual plastic visor and concrete.

And unfortunately I was facing the other way and carrying something when I knocked it, hopefully there wont be another time :crybaby:

[Mikkel]

Sell it on trademe :devil2:

:chase: