Crash course on Power Commanders & Dyno Tuning etc

[Macstar]

Hey Kbers

OK - I'm now contemplating getting a custom made stubbie pipe for my Hornet 900 to replace the twin under seat cans. From what I gather, a power commander is a good accompanying option as it will allow better mapping and performance.

However, if the stubbie pipe is custom, then pre-determined fuel maps are not likely to be available for it from the Power Commander's CD-rom or website, right?. Therefore, does that mean I'll have to take the bike to a dyno tester and get them to optimise it? If so, any ideas what that could cost?

Not getting a power commander, or not having it mapped properly could result in engine damage too right? i.e. from running it too lean or rich.

Anything else I should be thinking about?

[johnnyflash]

IPower commander maps (even if for exact year/model/mods) are still not nessesarily 100% optimised anyhow, your know the story, carb off one bike going to another same model doesnt mean it will run the same, every bike has slight variations, and I would still take it to a Dyno/EFI tuner to optimise. talk to triplezee.co.nz they will best be able to advise and have the correct gear to do it

[Gremlin]

Yep, best way is for a custom map to be made up for it. Costs a few hundey if I remember rightly.

If you're going to do other engine/hp mods as well, best you do them at the same time, otherwise your map would have to be re-done.

Now all you need to do is to have some reason for 2 maps, and you get to plug a laptop into your bike... it never gets old :lol:

[Jimmy B]

Gidday mate,

Thinks about getting my PC3 installed when I do the 24K service. Henderson MCs quoted ~ $300.00 for a custom map.

As Gremlin says, get the mods done then the PC. Should smooth power delivery, fuelling, better economy and potentially modest hp gain :niceone:

Custom Pipes, what happened to the bafflectomy??

[Macstar]

Gidday mate,

Thinks about getting my PC3 installed when I do the 24K service. Henderson MCs quoted ~ $300.00 for a custom map.

As Gremlin says, get the mods done then the PC. Should smooth power delivery, fuelling, better economy and potentially modest hp gain :niceone:

Custom Pipes, what happened to the bafflectomy??

Thanks fellas - all comments taken on board! Well, the little Hornet needs to catch up to its X11 big brother, so gotta get serious mate!

I guess I want something a little different, and I'm not a big fan of super quiet bikes - (will keep old pipes 'as is' incase run into difficulties, rather than hacking them up).

[HornetBoy]

why a custom stubie pipe ? have you thought of getting a single aftermarket can like an Arrow pipe etc and mount like the picture below .

[Macstar]

why a custom stubie pipe ? have you thought of getting a single aftermarket can like an Arrow pipe etc and mount like the picture below .

Yes I have thanks, gonna see what the Virgin Muffler guy offers first. Check out an image of the new 600 Hornet (released overseas) - that's the kind of pipe I have in mind.

[HornetBoy]

Yes I have thanks, gonna see what the Virgin Muffler guy offers first. Check out an image of the new 600 Hornet (released overseas) - that's the kind of pipe I have in mind.

ah now i see what your going for. nice :yes:

[Trudes]

I had new cans put on my Hornet a while ago, made the bike a little jerky at low revs. Bought a pre-loved power commander, and got it dyno tuned (changed front sprocket also :drool:), think it cost me about $1000 for the power commander installation, dyno tune and sprocket change..... but so worth it, rides like a different bike!!

[Jimmy B]

I had new cans put on my Hornet a while ago, made the bike a little jerky at low revs. Bought a pre-loved power commander, and got it dyno tuned (changed front sprocket also :drool:), think it cost me about $1000 for the power commander installation, dyno tune and sprocket change..... but so worth it, rides like a different bike!!

Hey Mrs KD,

Are you saying that your front sprocket cost $700 or did that include the cost of the PC as well? Henderson MCs quoted me ~ $300 to install and map.

[Trudes]

That was a bit of an estimate, I got a sevice, warrant, dyno tune + power commander install and front sprocket and install = $1,400.
Haven't got a cost break down, but a service normally costs me about $400ish.

[crash99]

Hey Kbers

OK - I'm now contemplating getting a custom made stubbie pipe for my Hornet 900 to replace the twin under seat cans. From what I gather, a power commander is a good accompanying option as it will allow better mapping and performance.

However, if the stubbie pipe is custom, then pre-determined fuel maps are not likely to be available for it from the Power Commander's CD-rom or website, right?. Therefore, does that mean I'll have to take the bike to a dyno tester and get them to optimise it? If so, any ideas what that could cost?

Not getting a power commander, or not having it mapped properly could result in engine damage too right? i.e. from running it too lean or rich.

Anything else I should be thinking about?
Damon at Cycleworks in Hutt did an awesome pipe job for my Hornet - made up some stainless cans that fit under the existing heat shields which is important with pillions. Not everyones cuppa if you want a radical look, but she sounds AWESOME :2thumbsup (the bike not the pillion ;) and looks relatively standard . . .
I'd appreciate others views on the need for the Power Commander though - haven't done it yet.

[Dak]

That was a bit of an estimate, I got a sevice, warrant, dyno tune + power commander install and front sprocket and install = $1,400.
Haven't got a cost break down, but a service normally costs me about $400ish.

No offence, but someone's getting shafted, that is a hell of a price to pay.

[Trudes]

No offence, but someone's getting shafted, that is a hell of a price to pay.

So give me your idea on how much it should be.

[Jimmy B]

So give me your idea on how much it should be.

Depends on Ks. 24K service is the biggy for the X11 and I will be expecting $400.00 tops, PC Install Dyno Time and Custom Map $300.00 - Total ~$700.00

Add:

Front Sprocket ~ $80.00 plus labour to fit say $60.00 tops = $140.00

All up un and out for $900.00

[Macstar]

Mrs K - I was told that modifying my exhaust would void my bike warranty so I thought well if that's the case why then should I pay $75 an hour for a Honda mechanic to still do the recommended servicing when I can get someone cheaper, or do the oil changes and chain tightens myself...?

Dunno what work you got done, but if you're paying $75 an hour for a mechanic it doesn't take long to hit those kinds of figures.

[Trudes]

It was my last warranty service, so wanted a fairly decent one before I start doing all the servicing myself.

I asked two bike shops in Welly, the two that have been recommended to me for their dyno machines, and both quoted me about $900 for the dyno mapping and tune. My hubby had his GSXR dynoed and tuned also, much the same price.

To be honest, I am happy, I have spent money on cosmetic stuff for it and by far the sprocket change, dyno and power commander was the best money I feel I've spent, so I'm happy, and that's all that matters. If you can get as good a job done and be as happy for cheaper, then congratulations to you.:niceone:

[Jimmy B]

To be honest, I am happy, I have spent money on cosmetic stuff for it and by far the sprocket change, dyno and power commander was the best money I feel I've spent, so I'm happy, and that's all that matters. :

Amen to that Mrs KD :rockon:

[Dak]

Pretty much as above, even thats on the high side for the service for a Hornet, I'd take $200 off that total price you should of only paid around $700 max, I mean come on, seriously, it's about time bike shops stopped shafting people, with most modern bikes these days what is there to really "service" And if the shop knew what they were doing the PC install should of taken only about 1/2 an hour, my bike took 10 mins. did they give you the dyno sheets afterwards?

[Trudes]

yes.
10 char blah blah

[Kendog]

No offence, but someone's getting shafted, that is a hell of a price to pay.


Pretty much as above, even thats on the high side for the service for a Hornet, I'd take $200 off that total price you should of only paid around $700 max, I mean come on, seriously, it's about time bike shops stopped shafting people, with most modern bikes these days what is there to really "service" And if the shop knew what they were doing the PC install should of taken only about 1/2 an hour, my bike took 10 mins. did they give you the dyno sheets afterwards?

You have to compare apples with apples here. Talk to Craserfromway (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php?u=6250)back about their dyno.

[Trudes]

He's not on KB much these days, Pete from Wellington Motorcycles.

[nallac]

a guy round here has gone to under engine dump pipes kinda like a buell set up,they look so right cleans up the tail/arse section so well, it should come that way from the factory.
Its got a PC install,an tune by AMPS putting put 110hp to the rear wheel.

[Macstar]

Yeah I think that's Tony's bike from NZStreetfighters. I've talked to him about his set up but I think it hangs a little low to the ground for my riding style. Looks good though.

[AllanB]

You can get a powercommander for the Hornet new from the USA for about US@280-320 plus say US$30 shipping is about NZ$400-440 landed to your door. Just make sure you don't get the California one (they have extra smog crap on their models) I was told they are about $700 to buy here.........

Ashburton Honda have a dyno tune thingy and can specifically map for each bike - $300 for the mapping I understand. $300-$400 appears to be the going rate to map in NZ.

You can plug the power commander in yourself, they come pre-mapped for the bike/year with stock pipes and you can download pipe brand specific maps as well.

I had a discussion with my Honda dealer re my pipes - I want to go to a slightly oversize outlet pipe on the stock mufflers - simple and 95% stock - I asked re warranty and got a "hmmmm well.... any modification...". But apparently they will fit a set of aftermarket cans if I order then through them and honour the warranty. That's more of a pipe modification than I was planning to the stockers! Go figure that. I may write to Blue Wing for an opinion.
Suzuki in NZ is great with pipe modifications - they often offer a 'pipe' as standard as part of a summer deal. No warranty issues.

[PeeJay]

Mrs K - I was told that modifying my exhaust would void my bike warranty so I thought well if that's the case why then should I pay $75 an hour for a Honda mechanic to still do the recommended servicing when I can get someone cheaper, or do the oil changes and chain tightens myself...?

Dunno what work you got done, but if you're paying $75 an hour for a mechanic it doesn't take long to hit those kinds of figures.

If your modification can be shown to have caused a failure then no warranty. Otherwise everything is still covered. The bike shops like to say your warranty is void because the manufacturer/importer may refuse their claim. Under NZ legislation the bike shop is responsible to you the purchaser to sort it out. Any difficulty the bike shop has with the importer is their problem.
Same with servicing, provided they are carried out as per the service schedule, and by a competent person, you dont have to pay $75 per hr.
In the event of a dispute you will have to show this so record keeping and a competent mechanic are required.

[Laava]

Hey Mrs KD,

Are you saying that your front sprocket cost $700 or did that include the cost of the PC as well? Henderson MCs quoted me ~ $300 to install and map.
$300 to install and map would be a good price I would have thought PLUS the cost of the PCIII at least $450 from a bike shop if not more. I paid about that direct from the states and installed myself. Not a 5min job. Probably expect an experienced install in 30-45 min.
edit; Reading back I see MrsKD bought a pre-loved unit[I know some people like that!] and assume that was incl in her bill.
Try here for Hornet downloadable maps, prob no sustitute for an experienced Dyno though
http://www.powercommander.com/powercommander_iii_usb/powercommander_all_downloads.aspx?mk=7&mdl=41&yr=2007

[Gremlin]

You can plug the power commander in yourself, they come pre-mapped for the bike/year with stock pipes and you can download pipe brand specific maps as well.
That only works reasonably well if the pipe and mods you have made match a pipe map that is on the site, and you can still have issues when you consider the map was probably american, different fueling, different altitude, temperatures, etc etc.

For me, I had made extra mods, had a pipe no-one on the internet had posted a map for, etc, so a full custom map for me, with and without the baffle, and its been fantastic. :2thumbsup