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Skunk
20th February 2008, 21:25
I purchased this bucket from Bistard. It appears to be an 89 ZXR250 running a total lost ignitioned ghey Honda GL145 engine. Everything was pretty standard (softer springs I believe and a little cam work).

I used it a few times at the Slipway, once at Taupo (The Taupo Road Race Spectacular), and once at 'the Minefeild' where I dropped a valve.

Badly.

1. at Taupo
2. at Manfeild
3. holy piston
4. head injuries

I have now, with a lot of help from Sully60 (thank you very much for your time), nearly got it running again with a (still ghey) Honda CB125TE engine bored to 142.7cc

Still has standard cams, head, ignition and carbs so we have a lot of potential to unleash yet. First on the list is carbs followed by head work or lightening the flywheel (lightened flywheel is sitting on the bench) and changing the ignition to electronic.

Stay tuned for the next report.

koba
20th February 2008, 21:35
gay Honda GL145 engine.

...

nearly got it running again with a (still gay) Honda CB125TE engine bored to 142.7cc


I belive it is "GHEY".

Good shit tho, awesome bike!

skidMark
20th February 2008, 21:42
My zxr can be purchased for 1k if anybody wants to do something similar (buggered motor)

all of it's there. new discs new pads blah blah.

Buddha#81
21st February 2008, 06:44
My zxr can be purchased for 1k if anybody wants to do something similar (buggered motor)

all of it's there. new discs new pads blah blah.

Geeez for that sort of money you can buy TWO running buckets.

Skunk
21st February 2008, 18:30
My zxr can be purchased for 1k if anybody wants to do something similar (buggered motor)

all of it's there. new discs new pads blah blah.
That's quite a bit more than I paid for a very competitive bucket (in the right hands - ie not mine)!

speedpro
21st February 2008, 18:30
It's real easy to lighten the flywheel on a CB125T.

Remove the flywheel, remove the rear axle, screw the flywheel onto the axle, apply lots of heat to melt the aluminium(all of it), the magnets will fall on the floor with the aluminium. Hacksaw off all the sticky-outy bits of steel from the little centre bit, put the little centre bit back on the crank, put the rear axle back in. Done. worked on Doug's one anyway.

One of the best things I have seen done to a 125T is fitting a FZR250 ignition. 3-4hp with absolutely no other modifications. Olly Young's bike, John Connors dyno, back to back runs in the same night.

Skunk
21st February 2008, 19:05
Cool, I'll see if I can source a FZR250 ignition. I've already done the flywheel thing but I used a 80 tonne press. Only needed 18 tonnes to push it apart. Cleaned it up on a lathe.

Skunk
13th April 2008, 21:46
The motor is still in the tuning stage. Last meeting showed a slight miss in the mid range and up. At Sully's suggestion I changed the timing which helped a bit.

Since then I have fitted the lightened flywheel (woah! what a difference) and enlarged the mains a little (very little). Next weekend we shall see how she runs now.

Slingshot
13th April 2008, 22:55
This bike is awesome!!

I want it...or something similar.

Skunk
20th April 2008, 21:08
Had it out on the track today but there's still no top end.
Pulls nice and clean from the bottom of the rev range then goes flat at 50 or 65%. Revving higher it starts to miss.

I will be looking at the timing first, then the cam timing.

koba
21st April 2008, 15:32
Had it out on the track today but there's still no top end.
Pulls nice and clean from the bottom of the rev range then goes flat at 50 or 65%. Revving higher it starts to miss.

I will be looking at the timing first, then the cam timing.

So it wasn't the carbs/jetting then??

Skunk
29th April 2008, 19:44
Anyone able to help with cam timing?
I need to adjust the factory set-up. I'm not too sure on the process though.

Sketchy_Racer
29th April 2008, 21:08
two options. move it by one tooth either way. see if there is an improvement. That'll let you know your on the right track.

Then slot the cam sprockets. = finer adjustability.

Skunk
29th April 2008, 21:29
two options. move it by one tooth either way. see if there is an improvement. That'll let you know your on the right track.

Then slot the cam sprockets. = finer adjustability.
Cheers Sketchy, but one tooth is too far I believe. I'm not sure which direction to slot either. I think (98% sure) it's clockwise (the slots). I'd like to measure it first though.

Sketchy_Racer
29th April 2008, 22:34
Just a quick question, Have you experimented with your ignition timing at all?

Im still failing to see how the cam timing will have changed from stock, and even stock timing should be able to handle the increase in CC.

I'd slot it both ways. It doesn't matter and it's not exactly hard!

bungbung
30th April 2008, 08:54
Im still failing to see how the cam timing will have changed from stock

Stretchy cam chain?

F5 Dave
30th April 2008, 09:54
Just whenever you do that's radical like changing a whole tooth it might be nice to see if the valves then clash with the pistons ideally with some plasticine to ensure clearance is still ok if varying much from stock. Would be a fine idea to check cams in correct position.

Bloody 4 strokes.

Skunk
30th April 2008, 13:11
Just a quick question, Have you experimented with your ignition timing at all?

Im still failing to see how the cam timing will have changed from stock, and even stock timing should be able to handle the increase in CC.

I'd slot it both ways. It doesn't matter and it's not exactly hard!
Ignition timing has been changed but made know real difference. Block height has changed. I just want to set it correct. To do that it must be measured.

Slotting it both ways still doesn't tell me where it should be...

Sketchy_Racer
30th April 2008, 18:31
No but it lets you slowly figure out by trial and error which way it needs to go, and means if you cock up your calculation of which way you think it needs to go, you don't have to pull them out and re-machine them.

CM2005
15th May 2008, 19:54
sounds complicated... lol agree with F5dave. also, you guys know anyone that races buckets down in palmy? i'm out at ohakea, and i'd be keen to see manfield.

Skunk
15th May 2008, 20:04
I've slotted the cam drive so I can adjust it and set the cam and crank at the std positions. The cam drive is a degree or two further forward than normal which would be right with 1mm off the block.

CM2005 - get your arse to Welly for the meetings, or Waipawa. You did bring your bucket bits? You could get the rebuild done by Pete Sales.

Skunk
15th June 2008, 10:25
Well. At the Battle of the Buckets Sully60 broke his motor so a swap with mine was attempted. In the course of this swap we discovered something about my engine.
It has now been fixed, but the bike is heavier than it was. At least the crank now gets oil though. I've never taken the clutch cover off before so at some stage of the engines life someone has and didn't refit the oil feed to the crank.

Thanks to Sully60's eagle eyes (:killingme) a complete meltdown has been avoided.

We'll see how it goes at the Slipway on the 29th June; It seems pretty good at the moment. A few other tweaks and it starts first kick from cold with no choke. Damn, that's better than it ever was...

Skunk
8th July 2008, 15:36
Still no power at the 3000+rpm range. Took the opportunity to trial several different timing settings (+15 through to -15 from standard) all of which made no difference to the 3000+ range. So I guess it must be the carbs. I'll be looking at the main jets next round.

Skunk
5th August 2008, 20:03
Well, richer didn't help. But my expert reckons it's too rich. Think I might listen to him now.

Just need to get some jets...

SHELRACING
5th August 2008, 20:29
Anyone able to help with cam timing?
I need to adjust the factory set-up. I'm not too sure on the process though.

I ran a twin for a while. Bloody quick bike. I won Taupo bucket meet on it 2 years back. But I kept dropping valves due to over revving. Gave up on the motor after it blew up for the fourth time

It had a total loss FZR system, which I still have CDI, Pickups, Rotor for the crank, custom made back plate, including the wiring . I dont know that I want to part with it. But If I find it all I could photograph it for ya if you need some references.

I found the cam timing a C@#t of a job. The valves need to be dialed in. At least it did with the Total loss system fitted. It was over my head anyways I had to get John Connor to time it for me in the end.

AllanB
5th August 2008, 20:35
A bit of Alridite will fix that piston.


Can anyone explain the h dropped into Gay - is it for Honda?

Skunk
5th August 2008, 20:41
It had a total loss FZR system, which I still have CDI, Pickups, Rotor for the crank, custom made back plate, including the wiring . I dont know that I want to part with it. But If I find it all I could photograph it for ya if you need some references.I think it was Speedpro who was telling me about that engine. I would be very interested in any info you can come up with.
I'll be up to the Taumarunui Races October 11th and 12th. Staying at the Hilton.

I'm working on a rev limiter that cuts one cylinder too.

koba
5th August 2008, 22:09
I'm working on a rev limiter that cuts one cylinder too.

Its about bloody time one of you guys with the twins sorted a proper rev limiter!
It seems VERY nessecary!

Skunk
5th August 2008, 22:22
Hmm, yeah. Anyone know the ignition on these very well?
I'm thinking there's a waste spark... the points are triggered every rev rather than every second aren't they?...

Yes, we're designing the circuit now - how-to/can-we is done. Now we build.

I've also been looking at valve materials etc. Honda ones of that age seem to be shite. Sully60 has independently been doing the same thing.

speedpro
5th August 2008, 22:23
A rev limiter is not neccessary if the motor is built properly. Have a listen to the ones Gaz and Karl are riding. They have John Connor big cams as well and are out to 140-150cc.

Skunk
5th August 2008, 22:27
A rev limiter is not neccessary if the motor is built properly. Have a listen to the ones Gaz and Karl are riding. They have John Connor big cams as well and are out to 140-150cc.
How do they stop the collet ring from snapping off and dropping the valve on over rev?

speedpro
5th August 2008, 22:31
Hmm, yeah. Anyone know the ignition on these very well?
I'm thinking there's a waste spark... the points are triggered every rev rather than every second aren't they?...

Exactly - FZR is a typical 4 cylinder with 1&4 and 2&3 paired. ????? - or do you mean the standard points system? Either way you get a waste spark I sold Olly the FZR ignition for his CB125T. With no changes apart from fitting the ignition and doing back to back runs there was an immediate horsepower increase of a couple of horses. We ran the bike up on the dyno, fitted the ignition, and then ran it again. The bike didn't even come off the dyno. It also got a lot easier to start when cold and was a lot less cold blooded. It's one of the best things you can do to a 125T.

speedpro
5th August 2008, 22:43
How do they stop the collet ring from snapping off and dropping the valve on over rev?

Don't know, but have a listen in this vid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsJxaA4tLLQ

I don't think the sound is well synced to the vid but you can hear the twins. They rev hard and last well.

Skunk
5th August 2008, 22:54
Hmm, yeah. Might see if I can track down this John Connor.

koba
5th August 2008, 23:03
Hmm, yeah. Might see if I can track down this John Connor.

Arnies been looking for him for ages now and has met with little success...

Slingshot
6th August 2008, 19:40
Hmm, yeah. Might see if I can track down this John Connor.

You'll find him in the post-apocalyptic future leading the human rebel group, Tech-Com.


Sorry, had to.:done:

Buckets4Me
6th August 2008, 19:54
or on amcc.co.nz
:bash:

or at Mt Wellington

Skunk
6th August 2008, 20:01
Thank you. I can never remember the address.
The chances of me getting to Mt Wellington - nil.
And a search of the site failed to find him... EDIT: Found!

SHELRACING
7th August 2008, 19:08
I think it was Speedpro who was telling me about that engine. I would be very interested in any info you can come up with.
I'll be up to the Taumarunui Races October 11th and 12th. Staying at the Hilton.

I'm working on a rev limiter that cuts one cylinder too.

Hey Skunk K14 has asked for some info on the FZR setup as well. I'm going to do some pics, so you can have them if you like.

As I said to K14, have a meeting this weekend and Auckland the week after. With some major repairs on my own bike I'm a bit busy at the moment. As soon as I can find the gear I'll do the pics.

You're right there is a wasted spark on the system not that it appears to be an issue with the running of the bike. Although a common problem is a missfire, cough and splutter around 9000rpm which is annoying especially coming out of a corner.

Not sure (with all due respect) I agree with Speedpro's comment
'A rev limiter is not neccessary if the motor is built properly'

It is very easy to take the rev counter off the clock, and you can hear the valve bounce very clearly. Worse, if you use a reverse gear pattern and forget. Biga da boom. I have the pistons and valves to proove it.

I found on a track like Taupo over revving not an issue as you have so much time and room to think. But on a tight kart type track caution is required.

Anyway at the end of the day the twin is a great motor. Put the motor into a decent frame, Hmmm hard to beat.

Sorry by the way. We probably wont be at the Taumarunui meeting. I'm running near top of the 'B' points table so will probably be going to Auckland. Pity the Taumarunui track is about 2km down the road from us.

speedpro
7th August 2008, 19:31
Not sure (with all due respect) I agree with Speedpro's comment
'A rev limiter is not neccessary if the motor is built properly'

It is very easy to take the rev counter off the clock, and you can hear the valve bounce very clearly. Worse, if you use a reverse gear pattern and forget. Biga da boom. I have the pistons and valves to proove it.

If the valves are bouncing the motor needs better valve springs. If the motor is already revving hard and you shift the wrong way a rev limiter is not going to help.

gav
7th August 2008, 21:41
Tell that K14 nothing, he's already fast enough!! :msn-wink:

Skunk
7th August 2008, 21:48
One of the issues we have is the collet groove breaking and the valve simply dropping.

speedpro
7th August 2008, 22:35
One of the issues we have is the collet groove breaking and the valve simply dropping.

Classic failure caused by valve float. The valve is moving so fast it ends up not following the cam profile and the valves are allowed to freefall back onto their seats and the shock breaks the valve. With heavier valve springs the valve has more force making it follow the cam profile and the closing ramp lowers it in a controlled manner onto the seat. If a motor has been left lying for years with a couple of valves open those springs are bound to have sagged out a bit. Springs also get hot in use. If the engine has an issue where things got or get hot up top that isn't going to help the springs either. They need a good supply of oil to dissipate heat.

Once you get into really high lift and/or speed you also need to start looking at resonant frequencies of the valve train. In this case just the valve spring really. It needs to be comfortably above where the engine operates or you can get a nice little harmonic thing happening and for instance end up with the spring doing nothing more useful than a slinky spring right where you need it most. Big drag race motors for instance could have titanium valve springs with only 3 turns and a new set every run. That is for 9000+rpm and around 1"(USA) lift.

gav
7th August 2008, 22:44
You need to build a desmo CB150T Skunk! May the force be with you .... :beer:

Skunk
7th August 2008, 23:17
Classic failure caused by valve float... ...end up with the spring doing nothing more useful than a slinky spring right where you need it most. Been looking into that. Trying to figure what to do without breaking (or bending too much) the rules.


You need to build a desmo CB150T Skunk! May the force be with you .... :beer:Italian shite. Looks good - but doesn't perform. Hmmm, I think I've got that already. :lol:

gav
7th August 2008, 23:19
Errr couple of Aussies want a word ...... :bash:

Skunk
10th August 2008, 19:27
Sketchy (Stink Racing's Chief Test Rider and Chief Mechanical Director) has been advising the mechanic (Skunk) on tuning the ZX1R . It's sounding cleaner and crisper with a better throttle response already. A speed test is yet to be done but the team is finally heading in the right direction.
Lead rider Skunk was heard to comment how much better the team has been since Sketchy was signed on.

Trudes
10th August 2008, 20:09
Here here!! :clap:
He makes a damn good courier too!!:banana:

Skunk
1st September 2008, 09:52
The ZX1R has proven itself to but a temperamental shit. The sooner the Honda crap in it is gone the better... :mad:

FROSTY
1st September 2008, 10:01
mate--the mighty shineray 150 is a calling you--SKUUNK take me take me--Ive got 150cc and electronic ignition....

Skunk
1st September 2008, 11:44
mate--the mighty shineray 150 is a calling you--SKUUNK take me take me--Ive got 150cc and electronic ignition....
Sorry - I want something fast.

speedpro
1st September 2008, 11:50
Sorry - I want something fast.

That'll be a 2-stroke then.

FROSTY
1st September 2008, 11:51
NO sahh you need something boreing reliable .with stomp outa corners:whistle: hehehehehe.

Skunk
1st September 2008, 12:28
That'll be a 2-stroke then.
Yep. A Kawasaki F6 is on it's way...

Slingshot
1st September 2008, 18:23
Yep. A Kawasaki F6 is on it's way...

Really????

Skunk
1st September 2008, 19:32
No. Well, yes. There is a F6 coming. Till then it's get this CB143T running.

Skunk
3rd January 2009, 17:23
No. Well, yes. There is a F6 coming.And here it is so far. A couple of things to do; move the plug in the head, muffler and stinger, and mount the carb. This last one is hard due to a missing bit...

TZ350
3rd January 2009, 17:54
Darn, Skunk, an F6 they are so good that it's almost cheating. Next you will be wanting to beat us Northerners at Taupo. Its a good looking bike and thats a frighteningly good looking professional like expansion chamber.

Skunk
3rd January 2009, 23:07
You're a bit sarcastic aren't you :lol: The F6 is real old school cast iron so I do'nt think it has much hope of going that fast at all. :laugh:
As for the chamber - thanks go to HRC for that. The only non Kwaka bit on it so far.

k14
3rd January 2009, 23:30
So what happened to the CB143? Given up on that effort?

Skunk
3rd January 2009, 23:37
So what happened to the CB143? Given up on that effort?
No, not given up. There's a frame here that it'll never fit into. It's going in that. I have some USD forks for it too. You know you can't win without them. Anyway, I like an engineering challenge. Engines just aren't my thing.

Skunk
11th February 2009, 12:11
The ZXR/F6 has had it's first run. Very short due to the flywheel coming loose, but promising. Seemed to have quite a bit of pull for such an old school engine. It even got on the pipe which really surprised me - and that's when it stopped.

The flywheel is now fixed and it's all ready for it's next test on the 1st March.

hmmmnz
6th March 2009, 06:12
well??? hows the bike running??? everything sorted

Skunk
8th March 2009, 17:14
1st March meeting was canned. Next chance is the 15th...

Skunk
25th March 2009, 21:26
The ZXR project has been shelved. The frame and motor live on. Watch for the TZRF6 thread.

Basically the ZXR250A frame is too heavy to use as a bucket and 'something better' has come along as a frame - a TZR250 1KT. The TZR and F6 have joined forces and run. A little fibreglass and paint and we'll be at the track.

The ZXR frame has found 'something interesting' as a powerplant. But that's under wraps till it's completed.

fi5hy
26th March 2009, 07:21
The ZXR frame has found 'something interesting' as a powerplant. But that's under wraps till it's completed.

Better be a F**kin Loncin Skunk

Skunk
26th March 2009, 08:01
Four stroke? Are you crazy?! :oi-grr:

Two strokes for me. :yeah:

Bren_chch
27th March 2009, 19:27
ooo look forward to seeing this!!

Sketchy_Racer
27th March 2009, 21:44
ooo look forward to seeing this!!

I hope you have a lot of patience :lol:

Skunk
28th March 2009, 07:35
I hope you have a lot of patience :lol:
Smartarse. But you're right, the ZXR is long term and won't be a Bucket.

Skunk
3rd June 2009, 11:46
The story continues in my Blog ZX4-RD (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/blog.php?u=2010&blogcategoryid=55)