Advice needed, bike choice

[jimmy 2006]

Some advice please..... i have settled on the fact that i want to go back to a 2 smoker. new or second hand???

i have found a 250exc 2006 model brand new, they want $9000 for it.

also new kx250 2008 $9500

kx250 06 $6500 with 30hrs

Rm250 2007 $8500 with 20hrs on it

Cr250 2004 $5000 with bugger all hours (apparently)

yz250 2007 $9000 with 25hrs

so many nice bikes i can't make up my mind!! arhhhhhh!


so the question is, the 250exc is my pick of the bunch at the moment, do people think that it is worthwhile spending the xtra money and going new?
9g for a brand new KTM seems bloody good to me.

I have ridden them all now, and like the KTM a hell of alot. but 9grand? a lot of money....... :gob:

[Pierce]

Kato's are more expensive bikes but they come tricked out factory so you do pay an excess for it.

Personally I've heard nothing but horror stories about green bikes so personally i'd steer clear of the kwaka's (i'm sure someone will say otherwise here).

I'd go honda but that's cos i'm strickly a honda man haha. If I was giving advise I'd be inclined to ask: How much do you want to spend? Remember that you'll really need to do a top end on it once you've bought it if it's second hand so you know the history. The newer the better if you ask me. I'd probably go Honda or Yamaha as they're both good reliable brands and parts are cheap enough and readily available.

Just my 2c's:2thumbsup

[Ktmboy]

My 2 cents worth - Firstly if you can afford it buy new.
That narrows it down to two choices.
- Ktm 250 Exc- Great enduro/ X country bike and well spec'd. Still very capable of doing the odd moto x/scramble. Very versatile.
- KX250 - If you do more moto x than enduro/trail ride/ X country then this is way more suitable. You can always fit a fly wheel to give it more bottom end for trail riding(Chop has one and it works well). Proven engine.

If you buy a bike with 30-40 hours then you are probably up for chain/sprocket/tyres/freshen up on the top end etc etc. So theres a grand gone already.

[jimmy 2006]

mainly ride cross country, trail rides and novice MX.

i want a newer bike, 06-08. and anything that i look at that is second hand looks raped under $6500. KTMBOY, your right about an extra grand to get a second hand bike up to good condition. kx250 second hand for 8000 then spend the grand giving it some TLC, i might as well bought new from the beginning......??

[jimmy 2006]

KTM (rolls royce) or Honda (toyota) Hmmmm......

$9000 for a new 250exc 06, is this a good price???

[Reckless]

Just to jump in on Jimmys thread I'm in a similar situation. I have the cr250 which I have regeared, added a fly wheel weight. New rear spring and Danger has done the front forks more for my style. So have settled it and made it as good as you can get for doing both the forest work and the MX track stuff. I have sold my sons Cr125 so the 250 can go go my eldest boy (or we can ride each others).
Which leaves me in Jimmys situation do I get the 200 or 250 EXC?? From what I have seen they look a little soft for Ardmore and Harrisville or do I get a 250sx, KX250 or Cr250 and take the edge off it a bit for the cross country stuff as I have done with the 01 CR250.
I wouldn't mind changing to Ktm as I would like to support the only make that looks like its sticking with 2 smokers. Only difference with me is I'm in the 03-04 bracket (having to maintain 3 bikes). I'm still leaning towards the 200exc as it has lots of power and the light 125 frame would be good for the trails etc but I quite like the jumps etc at kimis and Ardmore as well?? I'm a bit worried the 200 exc won't handle my 90kg?

Although my Cr has been bullett proof! Oh the dilemma!:rolleyes:

[jimmy 2006]

Reckless, i rode the 250exc at ardmore last night. what a mint bike.
the suspension was fine. no hesitation on any of the jumps. no bottoming out. you should really have a ride on one. they are so so slim, it makes cornering a joy compared to my rmz. you can get right over the front wheel so much easier. i have also been looking at the 200exc, but after riding them both, the 250's are the ones for me.

[Ktmboy]

Yeah, I'm 90 kg on a very good day(very very good) and have just got rid of my 200exc. Yes, their suspension is designed for around the 75-80kg mark (Same as kdx 200),
Bloody good little bike and I think I did well over 250hrs and no bottom end rebuild.
Great for the trails, gncc, enduro etc but really struggled with any sort of jump with my fat arse on it. So if you do like to jump then I'd be heading the 250 direction with a fly wheel. Does the extra weight on your CR work OK.

Jimmy, I didn't realise the KTM 250 was an 06 model. New, but still 2 years old if you know what I mean.

[Danger]

I would offer $7500 for the RM250! No hesitation from those choices. It has the handling, the motor, the suspension (with setup but they all need something) for everything that you want to do. I think the 08 KX250 still has the antiquated bladder forks and a high back end, unchanged from earlier years. The RM has twin chamber forks and will turn inside anything.
The YZ would be the other option but the handling is not as sharp for our forest trail rides and it looks a bit pricey.
The KTM's are not worth the extra money in my opinion and the 250EXC is a bit boring. A 200 or 300 would be a better choice depending on what you like in a bike and how you like to ride. A fast zippy keeping you busy 200 which is fun or a lazy torque producing 300 with gobs of power. The 250 is neither.
The CR is getting a bit old in the tooth and has jetting issues (actually not sure on that model, the 05-07 does) and I'm not a fan of the foot peg to handlebar relationship or the frame and the handlebar buzz.
Just my opinions, not everyone will agree lol before all you fans start jumping down my throat defending your bike choices.

How tall are you and what do you weigh?

[mxracer_nz]

I would offer $7500 for the RM250! No hesitation from those choices. It has the handling, the motor, the suspension (with setup but they all need something) for everything that you want to do. I think the 08 KX250 still has the antiquated bladder forks, unchanged from earlier years. The RM has twin chamber forks.
The YZ would be the other option but the handling is not as sharp for our forest trail rides and it looks a bit pricey.
The KTM's are not worth the extra money in my opinion and the 250EXC is a bit boring.

more like $6500.maybe 7 if its fully mint. The guys dreaming at 8500. I agree the Rm`s the best though, i wouldnt pay anymore than 7K MAX for a used bike they`re not worth more than that, see if scott has any left over new 07`s iam sure they`ve sold them for like 8500 new

[Danger]

Yeah for example I paid $7000.00 for my 05 RM250 which was mint and had done 30 hours and came with both stock pipe and silencer and a complete Bills unit.

[scott411]

pm sent, i have a couple of options for ya,

[Danger]

pm sent, i have a couple of options for ya,

Be careful that Scott doesn't try to talk you into one of those new linkage front end bikes that I saw in his shop the other day. I've ridden one and the suspension felt a little wooden! Mind you, you will have plenty of money left over for some go fast goodies and some stickers! And perhaps a softer seat. And if you ever get lost out on a trail ride (quite probable) you will have plenty of fuel to burn to keep you warm at night. If you like the Honda frame, handle bar buzz and jetting and the Kawasaki forks, you'll like this J/K.

[jimmy 2006]

How tall are you and what do you weigh?[/QUOTE]

just under 6ft and about 85kg.....

sounds like an RM might be a goer, shit... i thought i had decided on the
250exc.

[Reckless]

Great for the trails, gncc, enduro etc but really struggled with any sort of jump with my fat arse on it. So if you do like to jump then I'd be heading the 250 direction with a fly wheel. Does the extra weight on your CR work OK.

Yep Fly wheel weight is brilliant. I thought when I installed my first one it would rob some power but it simply makes it spin up a bit slower its the most underrated mod you can do to a 2smoker. I think Ktm have twigged to this and have weighted fly wheels as standard (but I'm not to sure).
I think my CR is the best I can get it as a compromise type bike, many who ride it are very surprised by the tractability down low. You can do anything to a 2 stroke!! This 4 stroke mania is just geared to give the manufacturers and suppliers more maintenance work. Cuts out all the guys like me! Good commercial decision for Honda, Kawasaki and their dealers but not good for us blokes with 2 kids that have bikes as well as me! It was bought in on pollution reasons now we are getting tracks threatened for noise pollution. Go Figure?

Didn't mean to steal your thread Jimmy and thanks to all for your opinions! I might now just mod another CR or go for a 250sx. My present CR is more than enough for me and was actually looking at steeping back in Horse power, Big cc doesn't necessarily mean fast, which is why I was considering the 200exc. It maybe would have given another option in our stable of bikes for us to swap.
P.S. I'm 92kg + gear =97kg so 200exc probably is out.

Thanks Jimmy and all, keep the comments coming!

[Danger]

Yup the KTM will need springs. The RM will be good spring wise.

[Reckless]

Be careful that Scott doesn't try to talk you into one of those new linkage front end bikes that I saw in his shop the other day. I've ridden one and the suspension felt a little wooden! Mind you, you will have plenty of money left over for some go fast goodies and some stickers! And perhaps a softer seat. And if you ever get lost out on a trail ride (quite probable) you will have plenty of fuel to burn to keep you warm at night.

Haha good one Danger!!

I hope scott has had that timber tanalised!!!

[jimmy 2006]

http://www.mrmotorcycles.co.nz/product_info.php?cPath=14&products_id=1468

looks quite good. grease nipples would be a bonus. i am guessing they are at the steering head bearing and the linkages? ?

[jimmy 2006]

i see cheese circulating, is a CR opinion on the way??? :laugh:

[Danger]

Haha good one Danger!!

I hope scott has had that timber tanalised!!!

Not that model Rick. Heres the tanalised model here.

http://www.mrmotorcycles.co.nz/product_info.php?cPath=14&products_id=1468

Just kidding, having fun. Sorry, better go do some work now lol!

By the way Rick, sorry if I sounded rude last night (she who must be obeyed said I did). I didn't mean too, but I was pretty knackered and told her I didn't want to take any calls. You know you can call me anytime though.

[Danger]

Cheese might be keen to sell you his. He never rides it anyway, always has something else on and soon he's going to be up to his knees in nappy's and dribble lol!

[cheese]

Jesus you guys are quick.... LOL

I love my CR. They made a few changes in the 05 onwards and they went to a single ring (wtf). Sam loves his one. I didn't like my RM, but that was a 96, so it was an old bike. You can't really compair. Jeremy went from a 1992 CR to a 04 RM and he loved the change.

Anyway Alexs CR for 4500 is a good buy, but get the newest bike you can't afford. I think that Alexs CR is a good option for Rick. If you want to have a go on my one rick just sing out. They ride alot more like what your one does now standard. They have heaps of bottom end for a 2 smoker and I find my one so easy to ride.

Is that KTM the one they have had sitting in the AMPS shop for ages? Some guy paid a deposit and never came back? I think that its a good buy for the money as it is new, but just older. You could talk to Greg and see when he is upgrading?? He has a 07 250SX + a SXF.

Anyway the thing that made my mind up in the end was the alloy frame. I don't like steel ones that rust up.

[cheese]

Cheese might be keen to sell you his. He never rides it anyway, always has something else on and soon he's going to be up to his knees in nappy's and dribble lol!



Like hell I'm selling my bike. I'll be getting a little PW50 as soon as he can walk.

[cheese]

Oh adn I had a ride on brians KX and found it nice, but he had the suspension done + a flywheel weight. if you go for any 250MXr get a flywheel weight.

[jimmy 2006]

i have now been offered some really good deals on new rm250's and new kx250's $100 difference between the 2.

btw, how much for a fly wheel weight for an rm ?

cheers for the input,

[Reckless]

I'd also like to know if Kawasaki are officially dropping their 2 smokers??

Cheese I actually don't think the difference between our bikes is that big. I get the impression you think it is! All the write ups I read was that the first of the electronic power valves where not as progressive as the weighted one like in my CR, although they could quite well have cured this by 04. Otherwise they are pretty much the same. We spend a lot of time when I was karting re weighting our springs to get them to open faster.
I'll give you a call about that CR sounds good! At least then I'll be able to swap the fat arse rear spring over from mine etc.

[Reckless]

Jimmy about $120-00 from Tebbie Braun I think?

[cheese]

Yes about $100 offer him cash....... shh.......

I found a huge difference between WRTs 01 and mine. I'll probably go to adrmore next wed, come out.

[Reckless]

My shoulder (AC joint) is still a bit fucked from the road accident at xmas but I just might do that. Should be able to handle a couple of laps!

Was thinking about taking the boys out somewhere this sunday as well.

[chop]

Weight is about $199 for rm or kx (let me know if you want one). I have had both rm and kx and i liked both. They both go and handle well my rm was very reliable and so is my kx. I do enduros,cross countrys and mx and they work well for all of them. My kx has a 11oz weight and a power now and has an awsome power spread and desite the rumours they do handle. Both need the jetting done but once thats sorted your away laughing. Buy new if you can that way your sure of the history and things like grease nipples are easy to add to a new bike. If you want you can have a scoot on my kx and see what you think. And either way if you get a kx or an rm ditch the standard chain and get an o'ring. My 07 rm did 145 hours without a problem and so far my kx has done 60 and has been a good bike.

[telliman]

Kato's are more expensive bikes but they come tricked out factory so you do pay an excess for it.

Personally I've heard nothing but horror stories about green bikes so personally i'd steer clear of the kwaka's (i'm sure someone will say otherwise here).

I'd go honda but that's cos i'm strickly a honda man haha. If I was giving advise I'd be inclined to ask: How much do you want to spend? Remember that you'll really need to do a top end on it once you've bought it if it's second hand so you know the history. The newer the better if you ask me. I'd probably go Honda or Yamaha as they're both good reliable brands and parts are cheap enough and readily available.

Just my 2c's:2thumbsup

you know it,me same boat,im in the market for a new kx as well,wish the o8 came with black rims stock!

[jimmy 2006]

telliman, scott just offered me a good price on a new kx that i don't think i will take him up on. pm him.

[Danger]

I can also do the Steahly flywheel weights for $199.00 fitted plus a free sag set lol.
I use a light 8oz or 9oz on my RM but you may wish for heavier.

But Tjebbe Bruin probably has the cheapest weights. I think he makes them as required though so there might be a bit of a wait.

I sense a new RM is coming your way. Jelous! Least you won't have to change the colour of your riding gear.

[jimmy 2006]

color of riding gear? :lol: white and green top with grey pants. ? more confused than anything else.

[Reckless]

Hey Jimmy mines all Honda redish! I'd look bloody funny on a green machine (although I'm a Kwaka man at heart). So lets choose our bikes on the colour of our gear. Problem solved!
Anyway after going over all the pros and cons I think the best way for my type of riding where I want the bike to do everything! I'll go for a 250 MX'er and do what I did for my present CR, seems to be the best comprise. Although 2 bikes like Danger has would be nice. I'm not that experienced but from what I have seen the MX'er seems to be able to make the transition to Cross country better than the other way around. The enduro bikes always appear to me to look a bit wrong on the MX tracks where the MX'ers seem to go OK on the cross country stuff. Especially if its a 250.
I think form your answers Jimmy we have come to the same conclusion?
My opinion only feel free to disagree?

[cheese]

Don't worry Jimmy, black plastics are cheap and will hide the yellow.

[Ktmboy]

Ah yes, we are missing one thing though. We did a 50k loop on Sunday and 2-3k from home we both hit reserve(300 exc). 9.2 litres.

Its always good to know that I'm going to finish a cross country race or trail ride.

[Reckless]

yes you're are quite correct there, good point.
My Cr250 Handboook says 7.5 litres so The mx'er wouldn't make it. I'd say 40k or so. Did a 35k at Trailblazer and seemed to have heaps left maybe the lighter bike and my nanny riding would chew less fuel?? But the enduros have far bigger tanks and a reserve so you know when to cruise home on the big cross country loops.

[chop]

My kx is pretty good on gas suprisingly if you are riding around the forrest its pretty good if you caining in its not so good.

[warewolf]

Yup the KTM will need springs.You sure about that? My KTM books indicate they always set up for a 75kg rider weight (with riding gear). Every 2003 2T 125-200-250-300 SX/MXC/EXC and even my 2005 640 Adventure - all set for 75 or 70-80kg according to the book.

[Danger]

Yeah and like KTM know anything about suspension right? Don't believe the KTM manuals they have not changed them for years (until very recently anyway). And he is 85kg, not 75kg. KTM's have always been under sprung and over damped. I get more KTM's through the door for work than anything else. At least in '07 they finally went up a rate on the forks which suits a heavier range of rider. Before that you needed to be under 70kg to make the fork springs work for you. The rears have been all over the place since the progressives and gradually getting even lighter. BTW the progressive springs work better over a wider range of terrains than the straights do as well. And most Kiwi blokes use them for a multitude of purposes, trail rides, MX, GNCC, enduro's, sand mud and rocks. The rears are also under sprung and over damped, particularly in the high speed damping.

[warewolf]

Yeah - hear you about KTM's documentation, and the setup.

I was/am confused :D I thought you were saying one of the KTMs would need springs and the other wouldn't, and I meant to say they both would for 85kg :lol:

[Buddy L]

Ah yes, we are missing one thing though. We did a 50k loop on Sunday and 2-3k from home we both hit reserve(300 exc). 9.2 litres.

Its always good to know that I'm going to finish a cross country race or trail ride.


Thats not many kays out of a tank!!! i managed to get 52 kays out of my
cr125 small tank, heavy drink.
But the rmz im sure ill be able to get about 60-70 kays a tank.

[dammad1]

Yeah and like KTM know anything about suspension right? Don't believe the KTM manuals they have not changed them for years (until very recently anyway). And he is 85kg, not 75kg. KTM's have always been under sprung and over damped. I get more KTM's through the door for work than anything else. At least in '07 they finally went up a rate on the forks which suits a heavier range of rider. Before that you needed to be under 70kg to make the fork springs work for you. The rears have been all over the place since the progressives and gradually getting even lighter. BTW the progressive springs work better over a wider range of terrains than the straights do as well. And most Kiwi blokes use them for a multitude of purposes, trail rides, MX, GNCC, enduro's, sand mud and rocks. The rears are also under sprung and over damped, particularly in the high speed damping.

Well thats a debate thats been going on for a long time, Mark Patterson doesn't like the old progressive rear springs he thinks that the straight rates behave better over a series of bumps and I actually changed to a straight rate spring on my old 03 300 and it defianetly made the rear end more compliant.
and the rear end on my 08 is really good tracks perfect but the forks need a little work, just a little harsh on the real hard pack.

The beauty about the KTM's is that they are made for offroad you dont need to go and add flywheel weights and with the dual ignition (07 onwards) and the different powervalve springs you can tune the power to suit your riding style.
But with all that being said I dont think you can go to wrong with any of your choices they are all good bikes.

[Ktmboy]

Thats not many kays out of a tank!!! i managed to get 52 kays out of my
cr125 small tank, heavy drink.
But the rmz im sure ill be able to get about 60-70 kays a tank.

Yeah I've noticed the difference between the 200 and the 300. Used to get close to 80k out of a tank.

Bigger bore, bigger carb and way heavier drinker.

The KTM two stroke have always tended to be a bit light in the front and is something that does need attention. Fitted a damper and fuck it has saved my bacon a couple of times. I can even take my hand off to pull remove a tear off without shitty myself.

[dammad1]

Yeah I've noticed the difference between the 200 and the 300. Used to get close to 80k out of a tank.

Bigger bore, bigger carb and way heavier drinker.

The KTM two stroke have always tended to be a bit light in the front and is something that does need attention. Fitted a damper and fuck it has saved my bacon a couple of times. I can even take my hand off to pull remove a tear off without shitty myself.

Hey KTMBOY i found my 300 was very thirsty until I changed the jetting a little and lowered the float level a bit, now its a lot better I get about 80K from the tank.

What damper are you using? I am just looking into getting a Scotts under bar setup, i've read alot of good things about them.

I had a small re valve done on the forks this week so will try it on sunday, but mark Patterson reckons I should go one size heavier on the spring rates to get it to ride a little higher in its stroke and i'm only 80kg.

[Ktmboy]

Hey KTMBOY i found my 300 was very thirsty until I changed the jetting a little and lowered the float level a bit, now its a lot better I get about 80K from the tank.

What damper are you using? I am just looking into getting a Scotts under bar setup, i've read alot of good things about them.

I had a small re valve done on the forks this week so will try it on sunday, but mark Patterson reckons I should go one size heavier on the spring rates to get it to ride a little higher in its stroke and i'm only 80kg.

Sorry to steal ya thread Jimmy.

Dammad1, could you PM me on what you did to the jetting on this. I just about have to tow a mini tanker behind. Its not fouling up and is not running rich tho.

My damper is a Roc Stompa (advanced) and apart from looking like a CD player works extremely well.

[Reckless]

So what are your 300exec's like on the MX tracks or are they pretty much for farms amd forests. I'm pretty convinced I'll get another CR250 and enduro'ise it a bit to get the best of both worlds (or as close as comprimise as I can). FLy wheel weight and re valve etc.

[Danger]

Well thats a debate thats been going on for a long time, Mark Patterson doesn't like the old progressive rear springs he thinks that the straight rates behave better over a series of bumps and I actually changed to a straight rate spring on my old 03 300 and it defianetly made the rear end more compliant.
and the rear end on my 08 is really good tracks perfect but the forks need a little work, just a little harsh on the real hard pack.



Well thats good for Mark and you should use what he recomends if he is doing the work on your bike and thats good for me who uses progressives because I maybe the only one in this country doing so. Most tuners here will follow the party line and there are very few that even work on the PDS. The correct spring rate and very light preload settings were very important on the 03 shock with the top out spring. Many people over preloaded the too soft spring and overcame the top out spring. They would crank down the preload and wonder why the sag did not change. Its because the internal top out spring was compressing. And the shock would become harsh. The shock was also too long. Greater sag was needed on the 03's and the 04's. KTM tried to overcome the problem in 04 with straight rate springs (and also a change in piston) and finally did away with the top out spring on the 05 models. They stuck with the straight rates because they could not do another about face and the straight rates were cheaper to produce. Unfortunatley they also stuck with the more restrictive piston (which they used to provide more damping at the end of the stroke to prevent bottoming, a problem they created with the straight rate springs to some degree). They also increased the needle length but this was good because in the past it had mainly been used as a bottoming device. However the combination made the shock heavy on HS damping and caused it to really impact and kick on tree roots etc. They also sold more springs this way. WP (owned by KTM until about a month ago) still produce the progressives for sale. An excellant solution was to fit a progressive spring, change out the restrictive secondary piston, replace it with the primary piston and use a Race Tech Gold Valve in the primary pistons position. The 03's and 04's also had a third bushing in the fork. These were by far the worst offerings from KTM.
My '02 shock is quite possibly the best offering that KTM fitted to their EXC range. Two high flowing pistons, a progressive spring, a good size resorvair and no top out spring. Let down by a short needle which I replaced with a Terry Hay (now a Race Tech) telescopic needle and a revalve. I also did away with the heat producing resorvair piston and run a bladder for increased small bump compliance.
Interesting that on many KTM works bikes (see Ben Townley's World Championship bike if you get a chance) the shock is fitted with a double ended titanium progressive spring. The shock is quite different to the standard EXC shock though.
I'm not concerned with what springs you or your tuner choose to use but if you bring your shock to me to be setup I prefer the progressive springs, especially for those riders that ride sand and whoops.
The 08EXC's have a new longer shock and new swingarm to frame relationship. This results in a faster shock shaft speed and more progression due to the new frame shock and swingarm angle. And lighter damping on the secondary piston. With the increased rising rate the rear springs need to be a lot lighter and the whole system is by its nature more progressive. Its a step in the right direction. The old rising rate progression ratio was about 11%. The newer rising rate progression relationship is better but still not near the 30% progressive ratio of most linkage bikes (the early RMZ450 had a 36% rising rate and benefited from using a softer spring with more preload to help it feel less progressive).
With the KTM's a stiffer spring with less preload feels more progressive than a softer spring with more preload. The trick is using the correct spring and on the older pre '08 EXC's it was hard to get decent sag figures using a progressive spring once the rider reached about the 100kg range. A straight rate was better for most riders over 100kg.
Now with the added progression due to the new frame shock and swingarm its going to be harder to use progressives for the lighter riders, but this won't be a problem because the bikes still come under sprung for the majority and so its really only the guys that are under sprung and need a spring change that will benefit from the progressive springs. And the shock will still work better with whatever springs (within a range) because its more progressive anyway. And now the plus 100kg riders can benefit from the progressives. With the lighter guys on the '08 bikes some progression can be added to a straight rate spring by end conditioning the straight rate springs. I have not bothered doing this on the pre '08 models because they needed more progression than what this provided (they needed a progressive spring) but it might be worth persueing on the '08 models with their increased rising rate helping things along.
Now a word of warning. Before trying to adjust your sag on your '08 KTM, remove the shock and remove the spring. You may not be able to do this without a spring compressor. Spray the shock threads with a teflon based spray. KTM (and WP) in their ongoing wisdom decided to make the new shock body out of aluminium. The prelaod ring is also aluminium. This will result in galling and there have already been many instances of stripped threads on the shock body. Before trying to adjust the preload ring I strongly advise you to remove the spring. But you can't do this without adjusting the preload ring so if you get stuck bring it to me to set up your sag for you. Do not bring it to me once you have already stuffed up the threads on the shock body. Also with the new aluminium shock body and twin pistons expect service intervals to be shorter.
Also be sure to red locktite and torque correctly the shock bolts, especially the top one and keep an eye on it. Keep checking it. There are alot of case's of '08 top shock bolts working loose. Again probably the result of the torque applied during suspension movements.
Also I am aware of at least one shock shaft on an '08 KTM coming apart. The shaft nut came loose. The shock had never been apart. This resulted in a broken leg for the rider.
As for the forks? The WP forks have never needed just a little work to be great forks. They definately need more than a little work, but its not expensive to get them to work on par with the latest Twin Chamber forks. In fact I prefer them in many respects. But it takes more work than a shim shuffle and stock they are pretty harsh. Better on the four strokes that can push through the stiff valving but the two strokes suffer and both benefit from a working over. They have always been harsh in stock configuration. The quality of the finish is not as good as the Japanese suspension components, despite what many believe to be the superior quality of the KTM brand and hence the higher price.
I worked with the head suspension designer of the EXC suspension at the ISDE. He told me that the bushes in the WP forks were stuffed after about 12 hours due to the amount of carbon released during breakin. He was powerless and frustrated from trying to get WP to improve their quality. No customer would believe me if I told them they needed new bushes after breakin but you can see the carbon inpregnated in the bushes along with more metal than any other brand I have had apart. I don't bother trying to convince customers of this. But its the facts. Hopefully now that KTM no longer owns WP we might see some improvements to the WP quality filtering down.
And I would fit reduced offset triple clamps to any KTM before a steering damper. I have both, (I have stuffed hands) and recomend both but the reduced offset triple clamps will transform your KTM's front tyre grip and handling. The 07-08SX models have adjustable triple clamps. Hopefully they will trickle down to the EXC range in the next year or two.
I love the KTM's and I sure love my 200EXC. It will ride over anything without complaint.

[Ktmboy]

So what are your 300exec's like on the MX tracks or are they pretty much for farms amd forests. I'm pretty convinced I'll get another CR250 and enduro'ise it a bit to get the best of both worlds (or as close as comprimise as I can). FLy wheel weight and re valve etc.

I suppose its really comes down to the rider and the set up. Chris Birch seems to go alright around a MX track (even though he doesn't enjoy it too much) and he would probably put alot of top MX ers away on a 300.

I rode at the Thames Scambles the other weekend and had a great time and did pretty good in all classes. But saying that, the jumps were fairly small and if I was to race at say Kens place this weekend then I'd definitely adjust the settings.

Fully adjustable everything.

[Reckless]

By the way thanks Danger for giving so freely your advice etc that would have taken more than 5 mins to type. Learnt a lot about Ktm's there.

I very nearly bought an 04 Cr250r this arvo but it was a bit rough in a few places. I dunno just felt it wasn't a wise decision. Then I went to the Ktm shops to have a look. Sat on a 250 exec at amps and all the advice was that the exc would still do a stirling job at the MX tracks. They recommended a 250 for me. Then went to XXX Ktm on the way home and there was an 07 200exec. It just felt right to sit on. And Steve from there said it was his. Well he's about my weight and didn't have a problem with power or his weight when riding the bike.
I dunno I'm still learning and I'm still thinking of taking a step back (in cc and frame size) so I can take a step forward in skill. Rather than softening a Cr250 I'm a bit sold on getting some fat guy springs for a Ktm 200 and learning to ride the arse off it. What ever I buy will have to be modded for me I'm learning thats standard with MX bikes! Always allow another few hundy for suspension tuning. I don't think big cc's mean your fast, if anything they can be a hindrance to the learning curve.
I think I'll take up their offer of having a go on one at Ardmore one week.
Still a bit confused about what to aim for.

[dammad1]

And I would fit reduced offset triple clamps to any KTM before a steering damper. I have both, (I have stuffed hands) and recomend both but the reduced offset triple clamps will transform your KTM's front tyre grip and handling. The 07-08SX models have adjustable triple clamps. Hopefully they will trickle down to the EXC range in the next year or two.
I love the KTM's and I sure love my 200EXC. It will ride over anything without complaint.

I have heard of the more serious racers playing around with the offset, but to be honest the front end grip of the 08 seems really good, but maybe thats just me not pushing it to the limit on the corners.

Really the only complaint I have is the forks being to harsh on the hard pack and it tends to beat me to death, but the bike tracks perfect, goes where I point it, handles the jumps and big hits nicely.

The other day Mark changed the shims around and added an extra one and we also gave it a bit more peload, but this was just a quick mod to get some improvement and I will likely chuck in a tech suspension piston kit and some new springs at a later date.

[warewolf]

snip very useful analysis of KTM suspensionThanks for that Danger, very helpful.

[Danger]

Just seen this photo taken of an '08 works KTM in Italy this Thursday. I think it is Max Nagl's MX1 bike. Note the progressive spring and new perimeter frame. They haven't even tried to hide the fact they are using a progressive spring like they usually do by distributing the closer coils at both ends of the spring and keeping it gray (usually a titanium spring on the works bikes). This looks like its just your usual off the shelf progressive WP spring.
There are also shots of a new aluminium frame. And more persistant rumours of a linkage bike in 2010. Although these rumours have been circulating for years it seems they are more predominant this year. I don't mind if they put a linkage on the MX bikes but I hope they persist with the PDS on the off road bikes. And keep the steel frame.

[dammad1]

Just seen this photo taken of an '08 works KTM in Italy this Thursday. I think it is Max Nagl's MX1 bike. Note the progressive spring and new perimeter frame. They haven't even tried to hide the fact they are using a progressive spring like they usually do by distributing the closer coils at both ends of the spring and keeping it gray (usually a titanium spring on the works bikes). This looks like its just your usual off the shelf progressive WP spring.
There are also shots of a new aluminium frame. And more persistant rumours of a linkage bike in 2010. Although these rumours have been circulating for years it seems they are more predominant this year. I don't mind if they put a linkage on the MX bikes but I hope they persist with the PDS on the off road bikes. And keep the steel frame.

Yeah i've heard alot of the same rumours, I don't think they need to change to linkages for the off road bikes (look at all the titles they take every year with the current setup), but I think they are keen to win more titles on the MX & SX scene and some people say that they will need to go to linkages to do this. As for the Aluminium frame i've read alot of forums with people arguing the pros and cons with each, but most of the old school guys believe that the aluminium frames are inferior to the traditional steel frames. What's your take on this Danger? I always liked the look of the aluminium frames but i'm starting to wonder about thier merits.

[scott411]

i think alloy frames are like usd forks, people have made more about them than there actually performance, just cause they work for bubba and rc in supercross do not make them better for the average rider

[Danger]

The main reason the Japanese have gone to alloy frames is because it is cheaper and there is a shortage of steel in Asia. My understanding is the current steel KTM frames are lighter than most if not all the alloy frames on the Japanese bikes. The alloy frames do look better though (the Yamaha's were looking dated before going alloy) although the KTM is probably still one of the better looking bikes to me.
Steel does have some better shock and buzz absorbing properties. Note that Kawasaki has had to take some measures to create a more forgiving feel in their alloy frames for cornering according to their marketing department.

[scott411]

your right danger, Honda took rigidity out of the CR series for a while, the first 97 cr250's were known as jack hammers,

best thing about alloy is that it does not look old quick, (great for us dealers making used bikes look good again)

Danger, do you get racer x, thier is an article with a guy that has made a new design in forks, they are both usd and convetional, and have 2 sets of valving, apprantly much better in mutliple bumps, look trick, would love to have a ride on them

[Danger]

No I do not get Racer X. Got it once in the hospital shop at Middlemore of all places and it was a damn fine read but can't seem to find anyone that stocks it locally.
But I have seen the pictures of the forks that you describe. I was not sure if they were real or a photo shop but you see a lot of ideas that never end up going anywhere.

[dammad1]

The main reason the Japanese have gone to alloy frames is because it is cheaper and there is a shortage of steel in Asia. My understanding is the current steel KTM frames are lighter than most if not all the alloy frames on the Japanese bikes. The alloy frames do look better though (the Yamaha's were looking dated before going alloy) although the KTM is probably still one of the better looking bikes to me.
Steel does have some better shock and buzz absorbing properties. Note that Kawasaki has had to take some measures to create a more forgiving feel in their alloy frames for cornering according to their marketing department.

Yeah that is exactly what I have read elsewhere, but of course thier is alot of people that dont want to believe that.

[scott411]

ill see if i can scan the aricle and send it though, very interesting idea's, he goes into his thoery a bit,
as for KTM's bieng lighter, the no linkage would have to add a it to that as well,

[Danger]

The PDS shock is quite a bit heavier than the Showa and KYB.

[jimmy 2006]

so.....

missus has put a stamp on the whole upgrade bike idea.........(for now) might have to wait and get a new 09 ;-)

now she wants one instead!, sweet though i have been trying to convince her for the last 3 years!!!

crf150??? i know nothing about those sorts of bike.
ttr125???
drz125???

what is the best bike for the least amount of money? (i still want my new bike!)

she is a real lightweight 160cm and weighs under 50kg

[Ktmboy]

Kawasaki KLX 140. New kid on the block and I've been getting fantastic feedback from all the ladies that have bought one. Big and small wheel. Ring Scott.