Real Legal Advice Re Accident

[SuperDave]

I am asking for any REAL legal advice here, not opinions or beliefs. I am only interested in hearing what someone has to say with reference to this if it has true legal backing under the NZ legal system, I say this because opinion or assumptions based on limited knowledge will be of no use to me and will just cloud the matter.

I have recently been in a car accident were no personal harm was caused at all. I was driving (I am 17 years old, with a full NZ drivers license with no traffic convictions to my name) with my my mother in the passenger seat. I reversed out of my carpark after checking for cars and dangers. I was completely out of my car park space and was about to turn my wheel and pull away when I see another car reversing out of its carpark space. This car backed up into the right rear side of my car and did damage to the cost of about $1500. Now, I think it is very important to make it known that at the time of impact, my car was completely stationary, I had already reversed out of my carpark and was about to shift into first when I noticed the car reversing towards me.

It would fine if the women who reversed into me accepted full responsibility and claimed from her insurance, her insurance would cover the costs of repair to my vehicle and all she would have to do is pay her excess and lose her no claims bonus if she had one. Also note she is about 45 years old so her excess should not be considerably high. Because of my age my excess is $1000.

As it all goes, she is refusing to take full responsibility and claims we are both at fault, thus, as she has no damage to her car what soever, she is not going to claim. That leaves me and my parents with the damage to my parents' vehicle to the tune of $1500.

Can I even take this kinda thing to court? Like a disputes court or something?
Now this is what I want to know, if this would be taken to court, what are the chances on me winning my case for the women to pay the costs of repairs to our vehicle and our legal fees?



Any advice relating to real legal knowledge and understanding would be greatly appreciated. If there is anything else one would need to know about this incident to understand it more and accurately commend, do not hesitate to ask and I will gladly clear it up.

[Yamahamaman]

I am asking for any REAL legal advice here, not opinions or beliefs. I am only interested in hearing what someone has to say with reference to this if it has true legal backing under the NZ legal system, I say this because opinion or assumptions based on limited knowledge will be of no use to me and will just cloud the matter.

I have recently been in a car accident were no personal harm was caused at all. I was driving (I am 17 years old, with a full NZ drivers license with no traffic convictions to my name) with my my mother in the passenger seat. I reversed out of my carpark after checking for cars and dangers. I was completely out of my car park space and was about to turn my wheel and pull away when I see another car reversing out of its carpark space. This car backed up into the right rear side of my car and did damage to the cost of about $1500. Now, I think it is very important to make it known that at the time of impact, my car was completely stationary, I had already reversed out of my carpark and was about to shift into first when I noticed the car reversing towards me.

It would fine if the women who reversed into me accepted full responsibility and claimed from her insurance, her insurance would cover the costs of repair to my vehicle and all she would have to do is pay her excess and lose her no claims bonus if she had one. Also note she is about 45 years old so her excess should not be considerably high. Because of my age my excess is $1000.

As it all goes, she is refusing to take full responsibility and claims we are both at fault, thus, as she has no damage to her car what soever, she is not going to claim. That leaves me and my parents with the damage to my parents' vehicle to the tune of $1500.

Can I even take this kinda thing to court? Like a disputes court or something?
Now this is what I want to know, if this would be taken to court, what are the chances on me winning my case for the women to pay the costs of repairs to our vehicle and our legal fees?



Any advice relating to real legal knowledge and understanding would be greatly appreciated. If there is anything else one would need to know about this incident to understand it more and accurately commend, do not hesitate to ask and I will gladly clear it up.
Talk to your insurance company.

[SuperDave]

Talk to your insurance company.

My parents have spoken to their insurance and I have given my description of events to them. If the women won't accept full responsibility, then that's how it stands and we will have to either claim and pay the excess ourselves or leave the damage.

[Yamahamaman]

My parents have spoken to their insurance and I have given my description of events to them. If the women won't accept full responsibility, then that's how it stands and we will have to either claim and pay the excess ourselves or leave the damage.
And so your insurance company have no opinion as to who is responsible. In that case, if you firmly believe you are not liable, then make a complaint at your nearest police station. I take it that you at least have the registration of the other vehicle.

[SuperDave]

And so your insurance company have no opinion as to who is responsible. In that case, if you firmly believe you are not liable, then make a complaint at your nearest police station. I take it that you at least have the registration of the other vehicle.

Thing is, our insurance company and her insurance company are really the same place, so that causes some problems from what I have been told is she won't admit full liability. I can't see how if I was stationary at the time, I could even be considered to be liable. If someone hits something that is no moving, it is their fault, plain in simple is it not? Legally? Also, the damage to my vehicle clearly proves that my car was stationary at the time.

[scumdog]

As your mother may seem to not be clasified as impartial as witness it would be good (in fact damn good) if you could find an independant witness that could testify you were at a standstill at the time of the crash.

ALWAYS try and get Police attendance as he will (normally) make a decision as to who was at fault if in fact one party is.It is generally too late a few days down the track.

Stick to your guns and get mum/dad to give the Ins. co. a ream out.

IF you were at a standstill I would say you were NOT liable, - ask the Ins. co. to explain how THEY think you ARE.

[toads]

As your mother may seem to not be clasified as impartial as witness it would be good (in fact damn good) if you could find an independant witness that could testify you were at a standstill at the time of the crash.

ALWAYS try and get Police attendance as he will (normally) make a decision as to who was at fault if in fact one party is.It is generally too late a few days down the track.

Stick to your guns and get mum/dad to give the Ins. co. a ream out.

IF you were at a standstill I would say you were NOT liable, - ask the Ins. co. to explain how THEY think you ARE.

this is the key to any arguement you may have, post an advertisment in your local paper, and go and talk to the staff in the shops in the location of the accident, an independant witness is exactly what is needed, should you find one, then the matter will be easily resolved in court,if nothing comes of that talk to you insurance company and mention the woman involved, if they are one and the same company, they will lodge the accident as invoving her anyway and she will still lose her no claims bonus, regardless of whether she makes a claim or not.

[bear]

I was an a car accident where a car waited to let the car I was in turn right into a side street, then as we were turning a car came through in another lane and hid the rear of our car as we were turning. Police attended, however, as no party was directly at fault it was left up to each party to claim their individual insurance.
The other party wasn't happy with this, and took my friend to the small claims tribunal (or something similar), however, as no party was directly at fault the judge stuck with the insurance companies decision. The insurance companies decision was something along the lines of tit-for-tat, each party uses its own insurance.

Different situation, but looks like its going the same way.

Your situation is always something I look out for in car parks, always be ready to jump on that horn.

[Quasievil]

If ya want real legal advise and not opinions go to a Lawyer ???:bash:

[SuperDave]

I was thinking someone on this forum would be a lawyer or something similar that knows the law well. I was told I could go to citizens advice bureau and they should be able to help me with regards to what legal standing this has, so I will try there and if not I'll find a lawyer. I decided I am going to phone this women and also put it in writing to try and negotiate it all diplomatically first, but I doubt she will see it my way, stubborn bitch. I just thought if I could be sure a case on this would be in favour then it would be extra ammo when trying to negotiate with her.

[Drunken Monkey]

If ya want real legal advise and not opinions go to a Lawyer ???:bash:

Unfortunately a lawyer can only offer you limited advice. It is a small claims court case as the total value of damages is less than the threshold of (around) $7000. Lawyers don't (read: aren't allowed to) get involved in small claims, only district court or higher.
You can attempt to write a letter indicating that you beleive she is fully at fault AND WHY, then if she doesn't pay up you can indicate you will take proceedings to the nearest district court. You will need to do this before going to district court as courts prefer you to show that you have attempted to resolve the issue without resorting to court as your first action. Unfortunately, because of the amount, a district court will likely just tell you to take it to small claims.
Small claims is unlikely to rule 100% in either person's favour. In order to get what you really need to do the repairs, you'll have to find a few panel shops that will quote brand new replacement parts and a hell expensive respray just to get the numbers up high enough so that when they are cut down by small claims, it's closer to your real costs.
On top of this, you probably won't get consistent legal advice anyway. I spent some time recently talking to contacts/lawyer friends and each person gave me a different answer. Only one lawyer told it to me how it ended up, and only because he had also recently been involved in the same situation.

So in the end, unfortunately you'll have to take what the insurance company gives you. Your only real recourse, if you are completely disatisfied with your insurance company, is to take it to the insurance ombudsman. I couldn't possibly comment on the likely outcome.

PS - Writing a letter to someone indicating that you will take a matter to district court if an agreement can't be reached is the legal equivalent of 'fighting words' - not to be taken lightly.

[Quasievil]

Shit that sounded rude sorry, a quick type. good luck anyway dude. Get in your insurance companies face and getthem to act in your interest as much as possible.

[Dr Bob]

Most of the legislation, or statutory regulations, cover the rules of driving on a marked road. If the carpark was private property then it won't fall into any of this and it clearly becomes a civil case, hence the disputes tribunal becomes your only option.

A third party witness is your safest option; however, if you can get the other party to at least admit that your vehicle was stationary then you could be home and hosed. What is covered under codified law is the responsibility of the parties to share details in relation to a trespass (doesn't just apply to land, trespass is the damage of another parties property or hinderence of that parties right to use the property under the law of torts). So if the other party won't give you all of their details then you can get the police involved.

I recommend that you take great pains to collect evidence (photo's of the site, written testimonials etc.) and form an argument, and arrange the evidence to support the argument. I suggest that your argument outlines your behaviour (that was undertaken with due care and consideration for other users of the carpark), your recognition of a risk (that you saw the other party backing up without seeing you), your warning of the other party (or your attempt to warn the other party), and their continuance of their negligent behaviour despite your attempt to warn them, and your summation of the damage directly caused by the negligent behaviour of this other party (supported by quotes or bills).

At the disputes tribunal you don't just have to show up with a whole bunch of stuff and then talk through it. You can, and should, outline your story in a document and submit that (a submission to the tribunal). It doesn't cost a lot to arrange a hearing, and if the other party doesn't show then ( I think ) that will be taken as a sign of guilt.

You can only claim for direct costs of the incident, although emotional trauma might sway the presiding JP.

I'm sure the amount you can get is well over $7000, as I got $7500 through the disputes tribunal about 5 years ago. It might even be $10k now.

[spudchucka]

When you are reversing your car you basically have no rights, meaning that you have to give way to everything. From the details you have given, (being stationary at the time) you are not at fault. If you were both reversing at the same time it would be of equal blame.

I think it would be still worthwhile reporting it to the police as they may be able to offer an opinion. As ScumDog said, it would be great if you could locate an independant witness to back up your story.

You can take a person to a civil court and try to extract the cost out of them but it should really be your insurance Co that does this independantly after paying for the repairs.

It sounds like you Insurance Co has a conflict of interests happening here as you are both with the same Co. Maybe a call to the Insurance Ombudsmen, I don't know how to contact them but I am sure such a thing exists, citizens advice will direct you.

By the way I am sure there is a member of this site that works in the insurance industry, can't remember who but hopefully they read the thread.

[Dr Bob]

.....It sounds like you Insurance Co has a conflict of interests happening here as you are both with the same Co. Maybe a call to the Insurance Ombudsmen, I don't know how to contact them but I am sure such a thing exists, citizens advice will direct you.

.......

My experience of insurance companies is that they do as little as possible and get out of any obligation as quickly as possible. However, I may have just had bad experiences, I am sure many of you have had an equal number of good experiences with insurance companies.

Good point about the Ombudsman and conflict of interest, it could be solved within this process.

[SuperDave]

Well thanks for all of that. There is no way im going to get an indpendent objective third party opinion on it since this accident occured about two week ago.

Saying that I will definately be making my way to the citizens advice bureau for a little advice. I'm going to write the women a serious letter and I'll be phoning up on it as well. Hopefully I will be able to convince the women that it was her fault and that she should do the right thing and take responsibility when its due.

[SuperDave]

Yay! :) Mom and dad have spoken to their insurance earlier but I decided to give them a call myself before talking to the women in the other car. Turns out, after speaking to the insurance for some time on the phone they have decided to waiver our excess because they see that I was not at fault at all. So the other women will be receiving a letter in the mail soon demanding her to make a claim. :2thumbsup Serves her right, she should take responsibility to her actions.

Thanks for all the useful advice guys :niceone:

[scumdog]

Yeah! Good one, nice to see that SOMETIMES things work out as they should :Punk:

[mangell6]

Yippee, time to party and be stationary.

[FROSTY]

Yay! :) Mom and dad have spoken to their insurance earlier but I decided to give them a call myself before talking to the women in the other car. Turns out, after speaking to the insurance for some time on the phone they have decided to waiver our excess because they see that I was not at fault at all. So the other women will be receiving a letter in the mail soon demanding her to make a claim. :2thumbsup Serves her right, she should take responsibility to her actions.

Thanks for all the useful advice guys :niceone:
Dave sorry to sound like a party pooper but please dont count your chickens .........
y ou're really just back at square one. the Insurance company sends a letter .she sends back a letter with a different version of events and you're back to a stalemate -and with no indepandant witness you're up shit creek.
I really really really hope I'm wrong but

[SuperDave]

Dave sorry to sound like a party pooper but please dont count your chickens .........
y ou're really just back at square one. the Insurance company sends a letter .she sends back a letter with a different version of events and you're back to a stalemate -and with no indepandant witness you're up shit creek.
I really really really hope I'm wrong but


That certainly not the idea I got from the insurance lady, she was very helpful and I asked her if we are all in the clear 100% and she confirmed this several times within our conversation. IF the women argues it, they will be sending the men with the baseball bats to her door... Although, she has the right of appeal where she takes us to the small claims tribunal, but I'm not worried about that.

[bear]

Make sure you note down the insurance lady's name and the date/time you spoke to her - could be very useful if you end up talking to someone else and get another outcome frm the insurance company.

[thehollowmen]

Yay! :) Mom and dad have spoken to their insurance earlier but I decided to give them a call myself before talking to the women in the other car. Turns out, after speaking to the insurance for some time on the phone they have decided to waiver our excess because they see that I was not at fault at all. So the other women will be receiving a letter in the mail soon demanding her to make a claim. :2thumbsup Serves her right, she should take responsibility to her actions.

Thanks for all the useful advice guys :niceone:

Congrats :-)

Good to know it worked out in the end

[Dr Bob]

I take back what I said about insurance companies, after all they are filled with induhviduals.