Do Gsxr1000's have frame cracking issues? [Archive]

justsomeguy

24th February 2008, 09:14

Well we've seen a few crashes here on KB where the bastards broke in half. Though all the broken frames I remember seem to be K5+ bikes.

Puts me off buying one.... maybe one should stick to the K3/K4....

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/9314629/detail.html

http://www.1tail.com/sa/news/s/default.htm?g=%7B22F6D1DF-72CF-4A36-B9F1-1E87EFDF1809%7D

http://www.motorcycle.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2808

SixPackBack

24th February 2008, 09:16

Its become modern myth that The GSXR thou's have weak frames that break easily.
Is this true or just a local legend?

Bullshit. You crash 'em they break.

justsomeguy

24th February 2008, 09:33

Bullshit. You crash 'em they break.

Yes, sometimes though a bike is repairable, with a broken frame it's a write off.

On a ride with mates one day a guy on a new 06 thou smacked into the side of a car at under 100kms. He bounced over the car, got up and walked back. The bike frame cracked near the welds??:angry:

justsomeguy

24th February 2008, 09:37

Bullshit. You crash 'em they break.

Bit sad ..... as they really are my dream bike. Especially your colour scheme.

FROSTY

24th February 2008, 09:38

Not being a smart ass here but I wondered if the issue is the thous ease of lifting the front end.
Wondering if mr suzuki desighned em to take the kind of impact a mono can at times inflict?

YellowDog

24th February 2008, 09:43

Probably not unreasonable. Surviving a 100kph bash is quite an achievement for both rider and bike.

High performance in motorsports demands light weight construction, which will not be as strong.

It would be intersting to find some crash test data and compare the findings for each model.

Disco Dan

24th February 2008, 10:36

Friends old vtr thou snapped at the headstock welds after a 40kmph t-bone with a car.

...Bikes are usually fine until you crash them ;)

boomer

24th February 2008, 10:41

Mental Trousers

24th February 2008, 10:48

What a contrived way to make a conversation track the way you want it....!

On a side note, my gixxers made out of stickle bricks and just sitting in the garage bits fall of.

Cheap priced, Japanese mass produced crap; What ya expect

Buy a Honda. You know you want to.

As far as I'm aware there's been something done to each one that broke that aided it. Either the bike was previously crashed or some drilled a hole or something along those lines. The recent models seem to be on the cutting edge of how much you can slim down a bike though, which means they are easier to break.

Cynical bastards reckon Suzuki design them so that any decent impact means the bike gets written off and insurance buys a new one.

DEATH_INC.

24th February 2008, 12:06

Friends old vtr thou snapped at the headstock welds after a 40kmph t-bone with a car.

...Bikes are usually fine until you crash them ;)

Yeh, but they were well known for being shit too.
Good example, Gixser crashed his same place, same speed etc. as I crashed mine, Mine needed glass work and an engine cover, his needed the frame welding together..... not the only one I've seen/heard of.
Figure it out for yourself....

ArcherWC

24th February 2008, 12:53

Every time I have ridden with K6/K7 Gixer thous lately, we have had to stop and wait when one of them has "broken", examples are, bits falling off, front brakes going south, missing, holed radiator (ok that last one could happen to anyone, but it was the gixer of course).

Im starting to think we need a Gixer recovery vehicle rather than a Harley one

bugjuice

24th February 2008, 13:30

k, from what I've heard from topper' bods and found out, and makes sense; frames nowadays are incredibly light and strong. They're designed to be at their maximum strength nailing round bends, design to flex as least as possibly etc. They tried new lighter materials to do this, then squids go break them and winge cos their frame is snapped. They're not designed to crash, they're designed to go fast. If they were designed to crash, then they'd be twice the weight.

So in retrospect, yes, they have a 'myth' of them breaking, but mostly because people crash them or treat them to rough and they give, so the have a cry about it.

as for the electrics on them and other things, well they're their own issues

can't believe I'm defending zookies too..

2_SL0

24th February 2008, 16:01

Sollyboy

24th February 2008, 16:35

Yes, sometimes though a bike is repairable, with a broken frame it's a write off.

On a ride with mates one day a guy on a new 06 thou smacked into the side of a car at under 100kms. He bounced over the car, got up and walked back. The bike frame cracked near the welds??:angry:

Sounds like the built in suzuki crumple zone saved his life :bleh:, what the fucken hell are you complaining about, modern bikes are more likely to break on impact purely because they are built lighter to satisfy the market , theres a few 05 zx10s that have broken frames with no impact just a harsh landing from a wheelie, doesnt stop me abusing mine

slopster

24th February 2008, 22:22

I'm no expert but isn't a weld supposded to be stronger then the metal around it? Surely somethings very wrong when there is a clean break through the weld and not around it.

Cajun

25th February 2008, 07:18

It has been common the later model gixxers 1k frames braking mostly the k5+ 1000, the 600/750 don't seam to have the issues as much?

But honstly there has been something else help to cause them i believe, crashing, bad landing of wheelstands, and sometimes just bad luck.

Trying to save weight by but all means nessary often means shaving a bit of weight off the frame, which can have effects, but in turn its turning a gixxer (which is a bike which you can normally commonly crash, and it still goes, the later model ones have moved on, and don't crash as well as pervious models). Maybe this is to help sell more bikes/parts in big scheme of things?

the 04-05 zx10r had frame issues, and would be replaced under warrenty if started cracking. so its not limited the gixxer.

Robert Taylor

25th February 2008, 11:37

Sounds like the built in suzuki crumple zone saved his life :bleh:, what the fucken hell are you complaining about, modern bikes are more likely to break on impact purely because they are built lighter to satisfy the market , theres a few 05 zx10s that have broken frames with no impact just a harsh landing from a wheelie, doesnt stop me abusing mine

Thats a fair summary. Also pertinent to note that the most heavily stressed GSXR1000 in NZ ( Robbie Bugdens ) has just won the NZ Superbike title. EVERYTHING, irrespective of ( often overtly predjudicial ) brand loyalties etc is now built very minimalist in weight etc. If we go back to the early 80s there were a lot of heavily overbuilt bikes eg GS850, GSX1100 etc. I remember struggling to lift up my XS1100 after it fell over, I also recall that because it was so bulky you stayed committed to your corner line once you chose it. Weight has inertia when in motion.
You cannot have your cake and eat it too!

forkoil

25th February 2008, 11:53

Robert: :ar15: the bullshit

enigma51

25th February 2008, 12:09

Suzuki's use to be the ultimate thrill cause of there awesome engines now that they have a b and c mode ie the usa of a can handle the power modes they had to do something else to thrill us with

White trash

25th February 2008, 15:48

I crash the fuck outta mine every opportunity I get. No cracks.

FROSTY

25th February 2008, 15:51

I crash the fuck outta mine every opportunity I get. No cracks.
Dont you mean --"I do my very best NOT to crash the fuck outa mine..."

JD Racing

25th February 2008, 21:10

I'm no expert but isn't a weld supposded to be stronger then the metal around it? Surely somethings very wrong when there is a clean break through the weld and not around it.

You'll probably find that the frame cracks just along the edge of the weld. As is common with many frames the headstock on the Suzuki is a very stiff aluminium casting, it is welded to thin wall extruded side spars, a short way back from the headstock on the bottom edge of the side spars are welded more castings for the engine mounts, at the end of the extrusions is another stiff casting for the swing arm mounts, rear engine mounts etc.
The wheel mounted at the bottom of the forks has a massive leverage over the headstock, if you hit something head on the force is fed through the wheel to the forks, the forks will bend so far then all the leverage is applied to the very stiff yoke/headstock area, the whole engine area is very stiff so the only weak point in the system is the short extruded section, that area has been subject to intense heating during the weld process, something has to give and it's usually that point.

Frames need to flex if a frame was built that didn't and was completely crash proof you wouldn't want to ride it.

HDTboy

25th February 2008, 21:35

I've seen a K6 750 break through the centre of a weld.
Rule of thumb:
You can't break an SRAD 750/600 (Death_inc has been researching for a long time)
K1, K2 1000/750/600 frames can be dented (I've done it)
K3, K4 1000, K4/K5 750/600 frames can be bent (Two Smoker's done it)
K5/K6 1000, K6/K7 750/600 frames can be broken (have seen it happen)
It all depends on how hard you try to break the thing of course. Ride it the way it was meant to be ridden (without crashing) and you shouldn't have any problems

cowpoos

25th February 2008, 21:35

Thats a fair summary. Also pertinent to note that the most heavily stressed GSXR1000 in NZ ( Robbie Bugdens ) has just won the NZ Superbike title

and then theres the extreme example of what the TAS Relentless Suzukis go through in the Irish road racing scene,Manx,Isle of man,etc...

MaxB

25th February 2008, 21:35

You'll probably find that the frame cracks just along the edge of the weld. As is common with many frames the headstock on the Suzuki is a very stiff aluminium casting, it is welded to thin wall extruded side spars, a short way back from the headstock on the bottom edge of the side spars are welded more castings for the engine mounts, at the end of the extrusions is another stiff casting for the swing arm mounts, rear engine mounts etc.
The wheel mounted at the bottom of the forks has a massive leverage over the headstock, if you hit something head on the force is fed through the wheel to the forks, the forks will bend so far then all the leverage is applied to the very stiff yoke/headstock area, the whole engine area is very stiff so the only weak point in the system is the short extruded section, that area has been subject to intense heating during the weld process, something has to give and it's usually that point.

Frames need to flex if a frame was built that didn't and was completely crash proof you wouldn't want to ride it.

True but Suzuki don't exactly help themselves with the lack of attention to detail when it comes to welding etc.

enigma51

25th February 2008, 21:39

I crash the fuck outta mine every opportunity I get. No cracks.

win or bin

Pussy

25th February 2008, 22:24

You'll probably find that the frame cracks just along the edge of the weld. As is common with many frames the headstock on the Suzuki is a very stiff aluminium casting, it is welded to thin wall extruded side spars, a short way back from the headstock on the bottom edge of the side spars are welded more castings for the engine mounts, at the end of the extrusions is another stiff casting for the swing arm mounts, rear engine mounts etc.
The wheel mounted at the bottom of the forks has a massive leverage over the headstock, if you hit something head on the force is fed through the wheel to the forks, the forks will bend so far then all the leverage is applied to the very stiff yoke/headstock area, the whole engine area is very stiff so the only weak point in the system is the short extruded section, that area has been subject to intense heating during the weld process, something has to give and it's usually that point.

Frames need to flex if a frame was built that didn't and was completely crash proof you wouldn't want to ride it.

The K6 and onwards 600/750, and the K7 and onwards 1000 don't have extrusions anymore.... the whole frames are welded castings.
Suzuki's weld appearance standards would easily be the lowest quality amongst Japanese manufacturers

JD Racing

26th February 2008, 00:19

They still have a tendency to do this though.

skidMark

26th February 2008, 00:44

They break, but only seems to be when something has been modified, or a hard crash impact.

I do suspect some fail due to wheelies though, makes you wonder when the new ones are breaking, yes metal fatigue and strain, but the bikes they are selling now, most will probably still be around in 10 years or so, i personally think alot of frames will give in by then. They are building them to the limit, to save 2-3 kg's.

Here's the late model gixxers i know of that have come to frame grief.

Bruce - k5 GSXR1000 - high speed head on impact. Ok fair point any bike would have snapped.

Dan - k6 GSXR1000 - Snapped in half while riding down motorway. Bike had been put into a cliff and apparently frame rewelded because insurance were being tight arses.

Patrick - k4 GSXR600 - T-boned a car at roughly 110kph. Snapped frame. Yet again hard impact fair point, most bikes would not break at this speed. but still it's a solid impact.

R.I.P to all the above riders.

Random guy on your tube - k6 (i think) - rode off down road after washing it, bike snaps in half, suzuki say due to him (or bike shop) drilling a hole for a horn in the frame.

So it seems an issue more of they are safe from factory, it's the modifications/prior crash damage/possibly wheelies also that make them break.

The fact that all my mates who have passed away in bike crashes have been on GSXR's has put me off them.

Not because i don't like the bike. It's just when 3 people you know pass, all on a GSXR, it's tempting fate to me.

I see it as a sign.

SM

skidMark

26th February 2008, 00:55

They still have a tendency to do this though.

Photos don't lie.

Gremlin

26th February 2008, 16:48

I've seen the inside of a k6 thou frame weld... I ain't buying one.

Brett

26th February 2008, 17:13

Sollyboy

26th February 2008, 18:03

I've seen the inside of a k6 thou frame weld... I ain't buying one.

That would be a fair point if you knew the difference between a bad weld and a bad looking weld ,there is a difference , some welds that look a bit rough can sometimes be the ones with good penetration ,less undercut and lest heat effected area,but I saw some snapped k5 gix frame and it looked like they broke in the heat effected area and not the weld itself, but when all is said and done welds should look presentable inside and out but dont base everything on what you see

dickytoo

27th February 2008, 07:55

Will most likely either get a ZX6r, ZX10r or Daytona 675. In Black of course.

Man, have i got a deal for you!! Check out my signature for pictures of the bike in action. we might be upgrading so this one will go on the block if we do. it's got all the fancy bits for suspension, factory ecu and loom, akrapovic full race titanium system, rear sets, etc, etc. the engine has been worked on by Derek McAdam. I also have all the original bodywork.

The original bodywork is all black too!

forkoil

27th February 2008, 11:50

I love the look of the K7 & K8 Thou's in BLACK with BLACK everything. I won't be buying one when I upgrade the current Gixxer though. My K4 600 has been perfect, no complaints at all. I just dont feel that this would continue with a newer machine. Will most likely either get a ZX6r, ZX10r or Daytona 675. In Black of course.
zx6r - not as nice, test rode recently, akin to sitting on a tilted ironing board
D 675 - drinks oil, watch the oil level constantly
GSXR 600 K& - as near to perfect as damnit, esp with K&N air filter and Micron exhaust = stronger bottom end

Brett

27th February 2008, 19:20

Man, have i got a deal for you!! Check out my signature for pictures of the bike in action. we might be upgrading so this one will go on the block if we do. it's got all the fancy bits for suspension, factory ecu and loom, akrapovic full race titanium system, rear sets, etc, etc. the engine has been worked on by Derek McAdam. I also have all the original bodywork.

The original bodywork is all black too!

Very similar to this one

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Sports/auction-142855571.htm

IK would be very very interested in either your machine or the one above, depending on when it is for sale. Just made redundant at work you see. Love that pic of the ZX10 wheelie on the corner exit:niceone:

Brett

27th February 2008, 19:21

zx6r - not as nice, test rode recently, akin to sitting on a tilted ironing board
D 675 - drinks oil, watch the oil level constantly
GSXR 600 K& - as near to perfect as damnit, esp with K&N air filter and Micron exhaust = stronger bottom end

Food for thought. Cheers. Also forgot to mention, thanks to DMNTD and his ravingt of the KTM, also will look at a Superduke.

puddy

27th February 2008, 20:35

Yes, sometimes though a bike is repairable, with a broken frame it's a write off.

On a ride with mates one day a guy on a new 06 thou smacked into the side of a car at under 100kms. He bounced over the car, got up and walked back. The bike frame cracked near the welds??:angry:
So if you are riding a CBR 1000 or a ZX 10 or an R1, you just chuck it into reverse, back out of the car wreck that you're in and ride off into the sunset?:lol:
Have had a 1000 K1, K6 and now a K7 ...........and not a lightweight either, and have had no problems? Haven't hit any cars yet, and your grandma can wheelie better than me!

puddy

27th February 2008, 20:46

True but Suzuki don't exactly help themselves with the lack of attention to detail when it comes to welding etc.
Here here! I wonder if I can find somebody who would straight-swap my bike for a decent bike , like a ZZR1100 maybe? I wish.................

puddy

27th February 2008, 20:54

Photos don't lie.
I thought the only time you saw a GSXR 1000 was when one passed you, or if you rode past one (Parked!)!:scooter:
No photos don't lie! Pull your head out of your arse! Half the photos on the net are BS!

dickytoo

28th February 2008, 06:02

Very similar to this one

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Sports/auction-142855571.htm

IK would be very very interested in either your machine or the one above, depending on when it is for sale. Just made redundant at work you see. Love that pic of the ZX10 wheelie on the corner exit:niceone:

just thinking about it at the moment. we (derek and i) haven't fully decided whether we want to do the winter series on this bike or get the 08 one and get it sorted. I have access to a dyno and we'll be putting it on and we'll do some serious mapping of the ecu. derek keeps in pretty close touch with the official kawasaki factory teams in Oz and Canada (where they won the championship two years in a row) and they tell us that there are some serious ponies waiting to be unleashed.

Our bike is not as pretty as the one that just got sold by Technic in Hamilton but's thats just the race body work bearing its scars proudly. Derek takes great pride in keeping the bike as clean as a whistle and is a bloody great mechanic to boot. His Zx6 when he was doing the nationals was pretty damn fast as well. we also have a complete set of wheels with discs but may keep those if they fit the 08 bike (if we go that way).

Yeah, that picture of Derek is great. We also got pretty good results. In one of the races we were up to second for a couple of laps and finished fourth.

cheers

richard

SPman

28th February 2008, 19:52

My K4 hit a bank pretty hard and the frame was OK.

Mind you, the front wheel wasn't looking to flash.............

Patch

28th February 2008, 20:04

On the K3 Thou it wasn't the frame but the BE bearings that was the issue on some.

P.O.S. Suzukis, I ain't buying another one, especially when you can't modify it to its full potential in this country. Wouldn't buy a Sangsang thing either. Fuck those cunts.

Robert Taylor

28th February 2008, 20:07

zx6r - not as nice, test rode recently, akin to sitting on a tilted ironing board
D 675 - drinks oil, watch the oil level constantly
GSXR 600 K& - as near to perfect as damnit, esp with K&N air filter and Micron exhaust = stronger bottom end

Sorry but the high speed rebound damping in the GSXR600s forks ( or total lack of it ) spoils an otherwise good bike, but it is fixable. THERE IS NO PERFECT BIKE

onearmedbandit

29th February 2008, 00:53

, I ain't buying another one, especially when you can't modify it to its full potential in this country.

Huh? What you talking about?

MaxB

29th February 2008, 01:51

Here here! I wonder if I can find somebody who would straight-swap my bike for a decent bike , like a ZZR1100 maybe? I wish.................

Thanks for the offer but I'll stick with what I've got! The money has been spent to get the the zed just how I like it.

Seriously, I have owned my fair share of big Suzukis, I like 'em.... but in my experience they do go wrong relative to the other Jappas. YMMV.
Will it stop me buying another Suzuki? No.

DEATH_INC.

29th February 2008, 09:26

The K6 thou broke through the middle of the casting. It's just TOO damn thin. There is a limit of how light things should be built. They do it to make 'em light and rigid, but unfortunately the price of rigidity is brittleness.
I,ve seen a k6 750 broken clean through the centre of the weld, just like when you weld two incompatible metals together.

dipshit

5th March 2008, 20:36

Wondering if mr suzuki desighned em to take the kind of impact a mono can at times inflict?

I doubt it. Considering how everybody would moan and whinge and carry on like it was the end of the world if next year's model came out 4 or 5 kgs heavier.

Fork seals, steering head bearings and wheels aren't overengineered to withstand the forces involved with wheelies or stopies. These are well-known areas to look for if purchasing a second-hand bike in case it was owned by a cowboy before. So I would not expect the frame on a cutting edge performance sports bike to be engineered for such abuse either.

dipshit

6th March 2008, 11:28

A good example here...

Paulus

6th March 2008, 20:22

Any of you guys that are keen cyclists will have seen this happening a lot in the cycling world for many years now. You can't keep making things thinner and lighter without compromising their fatigue life. I'm sure most of us would rather have a bike that was 2-3kg heavier and have a long frame life - I know I would. One thing that worries me is buying one of these things in a few years time when the ones which haven't been abused so much approach a similar point in their fatigue lives. I guess that most will have been written off before then (as seems to be the nature of big sports bikes).