Question for IT people

[MOTOXXX]

Ive been considering moving into this area since i finished school a few years ago. Something like desktop support or something similar.
I have a reasonable knoledge of computers but nothing i would call spectaular. eg 6form cert in computing.

Just thought i would ask if any of you guys are in that type of work or similar and what type of qualifications you would recomend or a good way to get into that area.

[bear]

For a desktop support type role I would think a tertiary qualification would be necessary, perhaps a good first point of call would be a recruitment agency that specialise in IT, and see what experience/qualifications they look for.

[Sparky Bills]

You mean to say, that you went to comp class???
Whats up with that?!
Typing "a.s.d.f" over and over doesnt count Timms. :yeah:

[MOTOXXX]

haha
martin your looking to get knocked over like a Mexican bank my son. :)

oh you mean typing in cheats for doom 'idkfa' doesnt qualify :spudwhat:

[badlieutenant]

remember that turtle program...........forward 30 right 90 forward 50...tedious at best....monochromatic screens and dos only :bleh: what crap that we thought was fun.....

[James Deuce]

Ive been considering moving into this area since i finished school a few years ago. Something like desktop support or something similar.
I have a reasonable knoledge of computers but nothing i would call spectaular. eg 6form cert in computing.

Just thought i would ask if any of you guys are in that type of work or similar and what type of qualifications you would recomend or a good way to get into that area.

thanks guysGive us a CV, give me a yell so we can hook up for a coffee or a beer and I'll see if I can help. We may have some possies comming up in the near future at Datacom.

I'll PM my email addy.

Cheers

Jim

[Cajun]

Give us a CV, give me a yell so we can hook up for a coffee or a beer and I'll see if I can help. We may have some possies comming up in the near future at Datacom.

I'll PM my email addy.

Cheers

Jim
you work for datacom yucky

BTW sorry for not ringing ya on monday i total forgot about it dc:<

[badlieutenant]

What I meant to say was have you looked at Linux ? I have a friend with no real qualifications in computing but he is a self taught linux guru now hes self employed and sounds like hes snowed under with work. If you want to know more I can ask him about helping you out. Hes very keen to teach it so that he can have someone to help him with his work load, and hes only 21 (just in case you might have thought he was some old geek with his nose in a computer for the last 15 years)

[James Deuce]

you work for datacom yucky

BTW sorry for not ringing ya on monday i total forgot about it dc:<

Best job I've had in a decade and no worries! Next time.

[Dr Bob]

You think Datacom is bad, I'm putting together my C.V. for IRD at the moment.

[Sparky Bills]

Im talkin bout Mrs Devlins keyboard classes in 3rd form! :baby:
Dont you remember??
And I have never been able to sit and play computer games! I get too bored. Gotta get out and about! :scooter:

[dhunt]

Ive been considering moving into this area since i finished school a few years ago. Something like desktop support or something similar.
I have a reasonable knoledge of computers but nothing i would call spectaular. eg 6form cert in computing.

Just thought i would ask if any of you guys are in that type of work or similar and what type of qualifications you would recomend or a good way to get into that area
I do a lot of desktop support (part time) as still at uni and don't have any paper qualifications for this at all. They way I learnt stuff was playing around with OS's especially Linux and learning from that. I'm not sure how getting qualifications really would help much except maybe you can charge more etc or it may make it easier to get a job.

[Dr Bob]

For those of you talkn about typin, try the dvorak keyboard layout. Best damned change I ever made. Much faster, less likely to cause injury, and confuses the tech people when they try messing with my machine.

[jrandom]

You think Datacom is bad, I'm putting together my C.V. for IRD at the moment.

Oi, you! Come work for *us*. Gimme a yell sometime if you're interested.

IRD. Shudder.

[jrandom]

In response to the original post - I should note that I've been the computer geek type since age 10 or so, ended up doing comp sci and working in software engineering rather than IT. I prefer it that way. Hate 'users'. Hate crawling around plugging cables in under desks. Hate pushing buttons on Microsoft products.

If you need the basic 'this is the on button' IT courses to get you going, you *really* aren't going to be much use to an employer unless it's effectively an apprenticeship in a reasonably-sized IT department.

Otherwise, just play around at home, run Linux, learn to program with scripting languages. If you actually know your shiznit with that stuff, you'll find a job, paper or no paper.

[Dr Bob]

I kindof agree with random, but it is rather random. It does help to get a framework of some kind to be able to hang all of the knowledge that you might acquire. Whether this is self directed learning - ie. tons of reading, both from the interweb thingy and the library, or by doing a course ie. a general diploma in IT, it does pay in the long run to get the big picture.

I also agree that linux is the way of the future. Not that everything is going to be linux, just that there will be a big differential between supply and demand for those people with those skills. Go get a book like "Linux Administration: A beginner's guide" (Graham, Shah) or some such that is similar. Get your hands on a distribution and go through all of the stuff in the book. If you already know this then you can work on the scripting and automation etc.

If you don't want to do an entire qualification you can often go to a Polytech or University and enrol in a single paper {here we call them a Certificate of Proficiency}, that way you could pick up programming in a specific language, or web development etc.

Good luck

[Blakamin]

Give us a CV, give me a yell so we can hook up for a coffee or a beer and I'll see if I can help. We may have some possies comming up in the near future at Datacom.

I'll PM my email addy.

Cheers

Jim
Tell me more!... eg... what so you do at Datacom???

[jrandom]

It does help to get a framework of some kind to be able to hang all of the knowledge that you might acquire.

Certainly. I should have made this point clearly. If I had to offer the best advice I could, I'd say, "go get a BE". Actually developing new technology is great fun; don't discount it as a career. Four years at uni is a bit expensive, a lot of hard work and quite time consuming, but it can be very worthwhile if you choose well.

[James Deuce]

Tell me more!... eg... what so you do at Datacom???
Support Analyst - 2nd & 3rd level support for NZ Customs. In the midst of upgrades and technology implementation projects. Mostly interesting stuff with very little 1st level user support.

I'm intrigued as to why Datacom got an instant bagging from a couple of people. There is no perfect employer, but at least here my past employment history is respected as being useful, I get paid overtime and on-call allowances, and I'm working with a team of really good blokes.

I also get a bit picky about the "user" thing. They don't ring up with an expectation that we know how to do their job, so why do we bag them for not knowing that a network connection won't work without the cable plugged in? These things aren't self evident to a PA whose focus is getting their executive through the day with a minimum of hassle.

[manuboy]

You wanna do this for a living? Phuck that. Tell ya what - you get a job as a gardner down here, and i'll swap ya jobs.

What a bargain! You get the moisture sapping air/con, the RSI, the twats that think that systems can be majorly hijacked 1/2 way through development (why is that? if people tried to do that to vehicle designers or architects there's be chaos), the headaches, the creepy farkin "consultants" hanging round the office with their PDA's drinkin coffee and makin it look like work..., the bullshit meetings, the system up(down)grades, the legacy systems (uncommented)...

I'll take the outdoors (rain or shine), the simplicity, the physical stress instead of the mental stress, the semi-naked sunbathing tourists, the birds, blah blah blah.

Let me know when you're ready... PLEASE!

[jrandom]

What a bargain! ...

manuboy speaks troof.

It's why I like my job. I get left alone in my corner for literally weeks on end, playing with beautiful logical abstractions.

Occasionally I'm interrupted by unpleasant commercial necessities, such as shipping software releases, but on the whole it's a nice life, and well enough paid. I recommend it.

[dhunt]

For those of you talkn about typin, try the dvorak keyboard layout. Best damned change I ever made. Much faster, less likely to cause injury, and confuses the tech people when they try messing with my machine.
I've thought about learning too use one but how easy is to change between a qwerty keyboard dvorak keyboard?

[Dr Bob]

I've thought about learning too use one but how easy is to change between a qwerty keyboard dvorak keyboard?
The keyboard is the same you just use hot keys to switch, so learning can take as long as you want. The fact that none of the keys {except for a and m} do what they say they do does help you touch type rather quickly. The US navy did a study with their typing pool, it took their typists 2 weeks to get back to their original speed after learning the new layout, and shortly thereafter they were substantially exceeding it.

[dhunt]

The keyboard is the same you just use hot keys to switch, so learning can take as long as you want. The fact that none of the keys {except for a and m} do what they say they do does help you touch type rather quickly. The US navy did a study with their typing pool, it took their typists 2 weeks to get back to their original speed after learning the new layout, and shortly thereafter they were substantially exceeding it.
What I was trying to say was, after using a dvorak keyboard, if you went to your mates and used a qwerty keyboard how hard is it too switch between them. As I work on lots of different computers It is important for me to be able to use a standard keyboard at a reasonable speed.

[Dr Bob]

What I was trying to say was, after using a dvorak keyboard, if you went to your mates and used a qwerty keyboard how hard is it too switch between them. As I work on lots of different computers It is important for me to be able to use a standard keyboard at a reasonable speed.
Personally, I do this all the time. I have dvorak in my office and touch type, I go and teach in a class room and have to use Qwerty. If I am going to do a lot of typing I will set up the switcher (easy enough to do on Windoze or Linux (well not so easy on Linux)). And just to prove it, this last sentence was typed in qwerty (shit, the last word was easy to type).

[manuboy]

I JUST recieved my MS(ug) Natural Media kb. Can't see the problem people have with these things. It doesn't seem like a major biggie. Actually feels quite good round the wrists (hmmm...). :doobey:

Has all these buttons for starting apps - usually a waste of time, but the one that starts RealPlayer is cool! Mmmm.... Interpol mmmmmmm.... :banana:

Now i just gotta fnd a quite corner for myself... lucky buggers!

In response to the original Q, my mate started out by door knocking at Computerland. Another one got into IBM the same way (1993), but things have moved on since then....

p.s when did the restriction on # of smilies come in (duh)...

[MOTOXXX]

Thanks for all the response. You all are truly a bunch of great people.
I went and had a chat to the polytech before and will pop along to the open night next week.
i was thinking something like this http://www.whitireia.ac.nz/programme.php?key=43&path=interest&interest_id=Computing%20and%20Information%20Techno logy

and maybe doing the a+ certified course the year after. ive got the a+ certified practice exam off a mate so id get a better idea of how it would go on it as i went.
Its all up in the air at the moment though so nothing definite yet.

Thanks for the pm jim. Ill definitely keep ur email address for future and always keen for a coffee or a beer. to be honest i dont have a cv at the moment. Ive been in the same job since high school when i was part time and moved up the ranks (5 years or so).
Are you going to the Bbq at Pauls on Saturday?

[Dr Bob]

Yeah, that diploma looks fairly standard. The old NZQA CBC then DipBC took 2 years, so I am assuming that this is the migration from the DipBC. It is reasonably tough to get a good overview in a 1 year course, but the job prospects from this type of course are also pretty good. You will also want to extend yourself from the basic material - employers are not especially keen on an average student or average employee. Although you can pay someone to teach you, the learning will always be your responsibility.

[MOTOXXX]

yea it used to be called dipbc
i was going to do it instead of 7th form but decided to finish school instead
and go work for a while.

[James Deuce]

Are you going to the Bbq at Pauls on Saturday?

I won't be at Paul's unfortunately.

Work experience is generally worth a lot more than "New Gradness". That's work of any kind too.

Chuck a one page CV together that tells who you are, what you've done (listing stuff you consider major that you started AND finished), and your hobbies and education level. Try to keep it that short because the agencies and employers are usually busy and appreciate brevity. You may need a CV type document for Whitireia too.

They are merely guidelines, and most employers are after a type of person for a role. You're at a good place to enter the IT workforce, but the qualifications will help you move on.


Good luck dude.

Is that TLR back on the road?

[Cajun]

Yeah, that diploma looks fairly standard. The old NZQA CBC then DipBC took 2 years, so I am assuming that this is the migration from the DipBC. It is reasonably tough to get a good overview in a 1 year course, but the job prospects from this type of course are also pretty good. You will also want to extend yourself from the basic material - employers are not especially keen on an average student or average employee. Although you can pay someone to teach you, the learning will always be your responsibility.
this paper is cbc,
there is a level 6 which is dipbc,
then there is Bachelor of Information Technology (http://www.whitireia.ac.nz/programme.php?key=41&path=interest&interest_id=Computing%20and%20Information%20Techno logy)

I started off doing cbc, dipbc and then in turn the degree, I had been using comptuers for since i was 10, taught myself everything from programing/hacking/hardware/etc etc, once i decided i wanted to get somewhere in life tryed finding a job but none really wanted to know unless i had a bit of paper, so went back to school for 3 years, got a piece of paper to say what i know, in that 3 years at school i didn't learn a single thing i taught more to the teachers, about what they were meant to be teaching me more than anything else.

But here i am a system admin, dba admin, blah blah blah and tons of other admins of all sorta of stuff and i am 25

[toads]

I started off doing cbc, dipbc and then in turn the degree, I had been using comptuers for since i was 10, taught myself everything from programing/hacking/hardware/etc etc, once i decided i wanted to get somewhere in life tryed finding a job but none really wanted to know unless i had a bit of paper, so went back to school for 3 years, got a piece of paper to say what i know, in that 3 years at school i didn't learn a single thing i taught more to the teachers, about what they were meant to be teaching me more than anything else.

But here i am a system admin, dba admin, blah blah blah and tons of other admins of all sorta of stuff and i am 25[/QUOTE]


doesn't that just suck Cajun, all the knowledge etc and noone will give you a job, until you have a poxy bit of paper and associated student debt to prove it!. Good on you though I have the utmost respect for your efforts!

[MOTOXXX]

Is that TLR back on the road?

Unfortunitly no. Long story to tell over a beer or two. Ill keep ya'll posted tho.

[Cajun]

doesn't that just suck Cajun, all the knowledge etc and noone will give you a job, until you have a poxy bit of paper and associated student debt to prove it!. Good on you though I have the utmost respect for your efforts!
Yeah it sucks but got piece of paper, well technically i have not finshed the degree yet but very very close, my student debt isn't to bad, it well less than price of of the motorbike. I had two choices go to school learn computers, i know them like back of my hand(before course) or go to school and learn to fix motorbikes, and decided no money in motorbikes, there is in computers, and here i am

[manuboy]

The most valuable thing you'll get out of something like CBC or NDBC or woteva, is the ability to research. IT changes so quickly it's obviously no use doing those courses to learn about IT - they're out of date by the time you complete them (depending on your flavour of IT i guess).

BUT

If you know how to be self sufficient and find your own answers, you'll never get caught short. I founds thats how they helped me. :spudwave:

[Drunken Monkey]

bleurgh.

<snip>

I just deleted that rant - ignore me, I had one of those typically shitty network engineer days where anything and everything that could have possibly gone wrong, went wrong.

Do you have a teritary qual? Probably not looking at your DOB. If you're not the kind of person who is going to get a degree, you might want to look at the professional quals like A+, MCP, CNA, CCNA, etc. However, they are expensive courses, seeing as they're aimed at pros, and they are worth a whole lot more to people with a couple of years industry experience.

There's a lot to discuss, and I've had enough typing for today... :(

[Antallica]

Work in another field unless you really want to work your ass off and get to the highest level. I have my A+ and all that, it's very very difficult to get anywhere as there's like, 5 million other nerds who are being pumped out of Tertiary with a cert and no knowlege. Hope you're getting what I'm saying here. Be prepared to fight for a simple IT job, unless you are one of the lucky ones.

Ggrr, I hate this laptop keyboard.

[MOTOXXX]

thanks guys.
ive definitely got some thinkin to do. :argh:

[matthewt]

You think Datacom is bad, I'm putting together my C.V. for IRD at the moment.

Datacom, IRD ?? Nah, how about EDS !!

I know I've hit rock bottom when my CV goes to EDS

[matthewt]

I'm intrigued as to why Datacom got an instant bagging from a couple of people.

Datacom is like any other large IT company in NZ. They do some really good stuff and they do some really crap stuff. I was involved heavily in software Datacom put in at MSD. Parts of it were quite good but some of the people involved should of been shown the door long ago.

I've contracted to Synergy International for most of the last 6 years and I'd say the team I'm in is one of the best Oracle teams in NZ, however some of the other stuff Synergy does leaves a lot to be desired. Probably the only exception to this some good/some bad rule is EDS, seems like everything they do is :puke:

[James Deuce]

Datacom is like any other large IT company in NZ. They do some really good stuff and they do some really crap stuff. I was involved heavily in software Datacom put in at MSD. Parts of it were quite good but some of the people involved should of been shown the door long ago.

I've contracted to Synergy International for most of the last 6 years and I'd say the team I'm in is one of the best Oracle teams in NZ, however some of the other stuff Synergy does leaves a lot to be desired. Probably the only exception to this some good/some bad rule is EDS, seems like everything they do is :puke:

Um that's like any company with more than 2 people. I just a little bit "pissy" that people automatically assume that I'm a brain dead corporate citizen who has taken the easy employment route.

I have two goals in life.

1. Feed my family.

2. Enjoy at least a small part of the process of earning the money to feed my family.

If I didn't like it at all I'd leave. I've wasted too much time pouring my spirit into other people's businesses to make that mistake again.

Bagging major IT employers to people who are just starting to look at the industry as an opportunity is like telling 250 riders to F__k off when they want to go for a ride with you.

[matthewt]

Good to see another cbc grad here. I did my cbc in 89, started the advanced cbc but flagged it after I started working (too busy). Spent 3 years in chch doing DBA and network support, then 3 years in asia supporting software, then moved to wgtn where I've been for the last 9 years doing just DBA stuff.

Probably the toughest thing is to get a break somewhere. I was lucky that in my first job I was the new kid and when this flash Oracle system turned up the other guys ran fearing it was going to be a nightmare. It's ended up paying my way ever since.

[Antallica]

I still reckon I should have taken the job at PB Technologies, depresses me sometimes that I passed up the only opportinity I got. For gods sake somebody give me something IT related!

[matthewt]

Bagging major IT employers to people who are just starting to look at the industry as an opportunity is like telling 250 riders to F__k off when they want to go for a ride with you.

awwww, you're just saying that coz you work for Datacom :shutup:

[James Deuce]

awwww, you're just saying that coz you work for Datacom :shutup:

You're friends wiv Mangell, ain't ya?

He's cruel and vicious like you too.

Mutter grumble.

[matthewt]

You're friends wiv Mangell, ain't ya?

He's cruel and vicious like you too.

Mutter grumble.

I did see him dance recently, that was very cruel and quite vicious :lol: