Ban all bikes or just those over 600cc

[henry]

Expect to see something like this coming to your town soon...

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/mcn/2008/February-1-3/25-29/feb2808mpsconsidervisionzeroforuk/

[vifferman]

Yeah, ban all bikes.
Or, better still - burn them!

[Mr Merde]

..- burn them!

You cant do that. You would cause pollution and then those greenies would really start throwing their dummies.

[Mikkel]

Doesn't matter - we'll be out of petrol soon anyway ;)

I foresee a lot of runners if they passed such legislation...

[Steam]

It'd boost the sales of the GSX-R600, and what's the top speed of that, 250kph?

Cruiser riders would be shit out of luck though, they'd all have to switch from Harleys to Boulevards or some other asian cruiser.

The idea is obviously proposed by someone who doesn't understand the power of a 600.
If they wanted to limit top speeds and limit deaths they'd ban everything over 20hp, which is just capable of doing 100 on the flat open road.

They either have a secret agenda, or they don't understand motorcycles.

[nodrog]

so motorcycles under 600cc dont get hit by vehicles pulling blindly out of intersections?

[Finn]

Cruiser riders would be shit out of luck though, they'd all have to switch from Harleys to Boulevards or some other asian cruiser.

Nah mate, we'd just ride as per usual. Everyone knows not to mess with a Harley rider. We don't even register our bikes.

[TOTO]

You cant do that. You would cause pollution and then those greenies would really start throwing their dummies.

My vision is Bikes in space orbit around the earth :)

Can you imagine, you go on a romantic date, walking on the beach , look at the beautifull full moon and there are a bunch of bikes floating in the sky , shining in the moonlight - heaven :clap:

[Soul.Trader]

Ban 4WD/SUV type vehicles before you ban motorcycles - the thing with motorcycles, is that they're far more likely to kill the rider than anyone else. 4WD/SUV vehicles are quite the opposite. And it's all good to try and reduce road deaths - in fact admirable. But if I choose to ride a motorbike, it's no different to when I choose to go rock climbing, and any other "dangerous" activity. I'm aware of the risks, and I'm willing to take those risks, because otherwise I'd just spend my whole life in a padded room wearing over mits som I'm sure I dont hurt myself.

On the other hand, large SUV vehicles and caravans have a nasty habbit of ploughing into other vehicles and causing the death of innocent third parties. Not cool.

[imdying]

It's nothing to do with the capacity, that's just an abitrary number this wanker has plucked from the air... once he's banned anything over 600cc, he'll be working on the 250-600 range next, and so on and so forth. I will kill any prick that tries to stop me riding my bike, regardless of the law.

[Big Dave]

May the forces of evil have the google map co-ordinates to his garage.

[Tank]

Cruiser riders would be shit out of luck though, they'd all have to switch from Harleys to Boulevards or some other asian cruiser.


And how many of the current range of Boulevards are less than 600cc?

Ill give you a clue.......

[Steam]

And how many of the current range of Boulevards are less than 600cc?

Ill give you a clue.......

Oh, um, none?

Maybe they'll have to get one of those horrible Hyosung Aquilia's.

[MaxB]

What a load of antidemocratic toss. The Swedes are icebound for a lot of the year, hardly a bikers paradise. The only good note is that Sweden has been trying to ban large cars for years and got nowhere. Volvo has just released a V8 and Mercs and BMW sell by the bucket full. So I reckon the idea will not get off the ground here.

Claes Tingvall comes from a society which I bet Uncle Helen lies in bed dreaming about. Heavily socialist, state contolled piss, safety mad and taxed through the nose.

The reality is a substance abusing society with a massive suicide rate that has not produced anyone of note since what? Abba? Nobel must be spinning in his grave.

[madandy]

The Aquilla has a 650cc engine, no? It's still too large & powerful for Mr. Claes Tingvall.
Look at that wankers smile...he's taking the piss, surely.
Vision Zero my arse. Zero Vision more likely.

[vifferman]

I finally read the article linked to.
"Vision Zero"? LOL.
Apt name for people with zero vision.

[Finn]

I finally read the article linked to.
"Vision Zero"? LOL.
Apt name for people with zero vision.

Just a bunch of fucken socialists.

[skidMark]

I foresee a lot of runners if they passed such legislation...

You havnt been to auckland...have you.

[YellowDog]

Unbelfuckinglivable - At least we will now have somewhere to send the idiot bikermurdering car drivers.

"I sentece you yo 10 years in Norway"

"And yes it will be bloody cold"

[deanohit]

On the other hand, large SUV vehicles and caravans have a nasty habbit of ploughing into other vehicles and causing the death of innocent third parties. Not cool.
Gotta disagree with you there man, no way am I going back to driving a car!
And neither of my trucks had the nasty habit of ploughing into other vehicles.

No matter what your driving, it all comes down to the driver/rider.
Be far more productive to have mandatory driver/rider training than just ban a certain type of vehicle.

[Soul.Trader]

Gotta disagree with you there man, no way am I going back to driving a car!
And neither of my trucks had the nasty habit of ploughing into other vehicles.

No matter what your driving, it all comes down to the driver/rider.
Be far more productive to have mandatory driver/rider training than just ban a certain type of vehicle.

Dont get me wrong - I'm against banning ANY vehicles. I was just saying, they're a bigger road danger than motorcycles, with which you must agree. However, I am a staunch advocate for special license endorsements for SUV/utlity vehicles.

The reason for this is that modern 4WD/SUV vehicles look and feel much like a car from the drivers seat. But they're not - they are bigger and more top heavy, and DO NOT handle like a car. But you get any old mum/lawyer/whatever stereotype you like, driving these vehicles like they would drive a car, and causing accidents from tipping, to crossing lanes.

Enforcing a new license endorsement for these vehicles means that people would have to really think about owning one of these vehicles, and hopefully learning to drive them, before going out and buying one.

[nodrog]

..... However, I am a staunch advocate for special license endorsements for SUV/utlity vehicles.

.....Enforcing a new license endorsement for these vehicles means that people would have to really think about owning one of these vehicles, and hopefully learning to drive them, before going out and buying one.

what a crock of shit, as if there isnt enough bullshit endorsements one has to get these days!

any of these modern SUV vehicles is going to handle 200% better than the Austin Maxi i used to own!

Maybe we need an endorsement for "piece of shit" vehicles as well?

or an endorsement for owning an XR8 or V8 Holden? afterall they are racecars, its true, i've seen them on telly!

[avgas]

Doesn't matter - we'll be out of petrol soon anyway ;)

I foresee a lot of runners if they passed such legislation...

Done it before - will do it again if circumstances are met

[Soul.Trader]

nodrog - my concern isn't with 95% or drivers. It's with that 5% who cause too many road deaths, out of driving vehicles for which they are ill trained. Large vehicles with comparatively low visibility, a high centre of gravity and unfamiliar handling characteristics.

[ManDownUnder]

LMAO.... ok... getting back to basics...

1) Vision Zero (http://www.motorcyclenews.com/Shared/PageTemplates/Article.aspx?id=98516) sets the goal of eliminating road deaths altogether.

mm hmmm - all good so far - I don't want deaths on the roads either

2) None of its backers can explain how its goal can be achieved while motorcycling is permitted.

FARK! How can it be achieved while any transport is permitted??? (or are train deaths somehow better than road ones?).

The crusade wagon has run amok!

[nodrog]

nodrog - my concern isn't with 95% or drivers. It's with that 5% who cause too many road deaths, out of driving vehicles for which they are ill trained. Large vehicles with comparatively low visibility, a high centre of gravity and unfamiliar handling characteristics.

you can have all the endorsements in the world, its still not going to cure the 5% of idiots out there is it?

where does it end? should we all have to take a driving lesson, then get allocated a certain type of motor vehicle relevant to the skills we have demonstrated?

you can have all the pieces of paper in the world endorsing your marvelous driving skill, its not going to help when you fall asleep at the wheel driving home from a week long "P" binge is it?

pieces of paper dont save lives

[deanohit]

Large vehicles with comparatively low visibility, a high centre of gravity and unfamiliar handling characteristics.
Ok, Ford, Holden, BMW, Honda, etc all make large cars with large blindspots, lots of power and unfamiliar handling. just at a lower centre of gravity.
Top Gear did an interesting test where they looked at how far an out of control vehicle travels at 50mph before it stops. The 4x4 turned, rolled twice and stopped, the car spun...............and spun...................and spun for a hell of long way.
So the truck may be harsher on the passengers, but if it hits another vehicle, the impact won't be as severe on the other vehicle as if it was slammed by a still fast moving vehicle.

[deanohit]

you can have all the pieces of paper in the world endorsing your marvelous driving skill, its not going to help when you fall asleep at the wheel driving home from a week long "P" binge is it?
Or from the unlicenced drunken idiot in a stolen car either.

[Soul.Trader]

Ok, Ford, Holden, BMW, Honda, etc all make large cars with large blindspots, lots of power and unfamiliar handling. just at a lower centre of gravity.
Top Gear did an interesting test where they looked at how far an out of control vehicle travels at 50mph before it stops. The 4x4 turned, rolled twice and stopped, the car spun...............and spun...................and spun for a hell of long way.
So the truck may be harsher on the passengers, but if it hits another vehicle, the impact won't be as severe on the other vehicle as if it was slammed by a still fast moving vehicle.

SUV vehicles are substantially heavier, so when they do collide with other vehicles, they do so with significantly more energy.

[Ewan Oozarmy]

Guys, that article is from MCN. MCN is the biggest pile of shit motorcycle publication to come out of the UK. It comes out with scare mongering articles like this on a weekly basis. I've lost count of how many times MCNs retarded journos have told us that something or other is to be banned imminently.

I (and most bikers I know over there) stopped buying it years ago.

[nodrog]

SUV vehicles are substantially heavier, so when they do collide with other vehicles, they do so with significantly more energy.

my old XW falcon wagon weighed more than a modern hilux surf etc, and handled twice as bad. i managed to never kill anybody with it, and i didnt have an endorsement, fark i should buy a lotto ticket.

[mstriumph]

far more reason to ban those enormous SUVs methinks - especially if they are driven by (enter the name of your idiot-driver-group of choice here] :done:

[deanohit]

SUV vehicles are substantially heavier, so when they do collide with other vehicles, they do so with significantly more energy.
Suzuki Vitara= 1200kg
Toyota Prado=1800kg.
Holden Commodore=1700kg
And the Commodore isn't the heaviest out there, just popular like the Prado and Vitara.

[nodrog]

far more reason to ban those enormous SUVs methinks - especially if they are driven by (enter the name of your idiot-driver-group of choice here] :done:

so back on topic, its not ok to ban motorcycles bigger than 600cc, but its ok to ban big SUV's?

[Coldrider]

The EU & in particular the French tried to restrict power for big bikes etc, back in the 90's, it all blows over in the end when the politicians loose credibility, it is just popularist fizz.

[Soul.Trader]

so back on topic, its not ok to ban motorcycles bigger than 600cc, but its ok to ban big SUV's?

You're the only one here to suggest we ban SUV's. Maybe you should calm down, take a breath, and read people's posts with a little more consideration for what they're really saying.

[n0regret5]

lets hope hes not like that fuckin bitch who told us we can't discipline our kids with a flick over the ear..man, i'm pissed about that. how much you wanna bet he doesn't have a bike, has never been on one, has had some kind of run-in with a biker at some point in his life (which was probably his own fault), and has no penis.
last one is just there cos its fun to accuse someone of having no penis. no-one takes it well..
personally..the whole idea can get fucked. i JUST bought my TL1000S and there's no fuckin way i'm getting rid of it any time soon..

[headlesschicken]

how ironic there was a harley ad displayed on the page:lol:

[twotyred]

hopefully some swedish bikie gang puts out a hit contract on this globalist lapdog

[nodrog]

You're the only one here to suggest we ban SUV's. Maybe you should calm down, take a breath, and read people's posts with a little more consideration for what they're really saying.

where did i say we should ban them?

[Korumba]

Last night on the ride I heard you say it!

[nodrog]

Last night on the ride I heard you say it!

that was STD's, not SUV's

[Korumba]

that was STD's, not SUV's


What we have to ban 600 SUVs?

[nodrog]

What we have to ban 600 SUVs?

no, apparently you just need a HT and dangerous goods licence to operate one.

[Korumba]

no, apparently you just need a HT and dangerous goods licence to operate one.

Are HTs contagious? Like the STD I got from my boyfriend?

[nodrog]

Are HTs contagious? Like the STD I got from my boyfriend?

not if you dont swallow, but you can still get pregnant though!

[toebug]

Ban people movers! Why cause they are gay! What about an endorsement for owning a gay car? (shit I nearly have 3 kids, gunna have to get me a gay car endorsement cause I have to buy a gay people mover, thank fark I have a bike for every wheel on the gay mover!)

Hell lets just ban ALL cars!

[ElCoyote]

Done it before - will do it again if circumstances are met

If they outlaw bike riders
Only outlaws will ride

[fireliv]

Wont happen. I know to many people in high places who love there motorbikes and wont let a bill like this get through.:bleh:

[toebug]

At the end of the day the article is a complete crock of shit! Traffic congestion is a bigger issue.

[Swoop]

what a crock of shit, as if there isnt enough bullshit endorsements one has to get these days!

Maybe we need an endorsement for "piece of shit" vehicles as well?

or an endorsement for owning an XR8 or V8 Holden? afterall they are racecars, its true, i've seen them on telly!
Before you will be able to apply for any endorsements, you will have to have an endorsement that enables you to have an endorsement.

There. All sorted.

*ding* next!

[homer]

oh come on its not even worth the comment

it wont happen

will they be saying you cant drive a V8 car ,cause there to big
use to much fuel that were running out of , which were not

maybe we should get them to ban boy racers

oh wait thats another thing there trying to do
"not"

[homer]

Wont happen. I know to many people in high places who love there motorbikes and wont let a bill like this get through.:bleh:

a bill ,it would even get a look at
wouldnt even make a note passed under the table

[Disco Dan]

Crikey... very narrowminded.

Its not that bikes are dangerous (as such) but if we ALL rode bikes and banned cars there would be very very few deaths (also assuming the roads where up to scratch).

It is cars no seeing bikes, cars doing stupid things like u-turns in front of bikes, pulling out of intersections etc that is killing bikers.

Very few bikers would 'die' if cars did no exist!! ...yes I know there is the minority that 'go too fast' and crash anyway.. but plenty of cars go too fast and crash too...

[mstriumph]

so back on topic, its not ok to ban motorcycles bigger than 600cc, but its ok to ban big SUV's?

i was merely suggesting that, if the point is to cut the road toll and help save the planet there are far more worthy initial targets than motorcycles of ANY description :yes:

[craigs288]

This one should be alright for a while then.
It's only 0.06 cubic inches.

Not a bad output though.

http://www.bikez.com/motorcycles/marine_turbine_technologies_mtt_superbike_2007.php

[Ripperjon]

Imagine if there [I]was[I] a blanket ban on all bikes:gob:

It would be like Mad Max out on the roads! Its not like we'd all get rid of the bikes and say "oh well". We'd all be tearing around as outlaws:2guns:

Can i be the mohawked badguy who makes the weird bird noises?

CAAAAWWWW CAAAAWWWW

anyway.....:drinkup:

[dipshit]

Imagine if there [I]was[I] a blanket ban on all bikes:gob:

It would be like Mad Max out on the roads! Its not like we'd all get rid of the bikes and say "oh well". We'd all be tearing around as outlaws:2guns:


No, they would probably just not allow any new bikes to be sold. Eventually over a few years, the numbers on the roads would get less and less.

[Katman]

It is cars no seeing bikes, cars doing stupid things like u-turns in front of bikes, pulling out of intersections etc that is killing bikers.



Wake up man. Half the time it's bikers killing bikers.

[Str8 Jacket]

Wake up man. Half the time it's bikers killing bikers.

Yet you're still alive......

[Katman]

Yet you're still alive......

Yes, your arse does look big in that complex.:msn-wink:

[Str8 Jacket]

Yes, your arse does look big in that complex.:msn-wink:

Its not the complex that makes by arse look big. At least it's not as bigger arse as you though.

[Katman]

Wake up man. Half the time it's bikers killing bikers.

In fact, I'll change that - 75% of the time it's bikers killing bikers.

[onearmedbandit]

75 75 75 75, do I hear 76 76 76?

76% over there.

76 76 76 76 76, come on folks, someone must be wanting this, do I hear 77 77 77 77 77?

[Str8 Jacket]

80!!!! .

[nodrog]

80!!!! .

just make it an even 100%

that way everytime i survive a ride i will feel special knowing i have beaten the odds :woohoo:

[Str8 Jacket]

just make it an even 100%

that way everytime i survive a ride i will feel special knowing i have beaten the odds :woohoo:

What about 99.9%?..... :p

That still make you kinda special.

[nodrog]

What about 99.9%?..... :p

That still make you kinda special.

im special regardless, the doctors sayed so :drool:

[avgas]

Ban bikes i say.
Like darwins law states - "Only those with big balls will survive"
ban or no ban doesnt bother me.
Ridding would be more fun thats all

[dipshit]

just make it an even 100%
that way everytime i survive a ride i will feel special knowing i have beaten the odds :woohoo:

That percentage isn't a mortality rate... it is 75% of fatal motorcycle accidents over the last couple of years in NZ were the fault of the motorcyclist.

[dipshit]

Ban bikes i say.
Like darwins law states - "Only those with big balls will survive"
ban or no ban doesnt bother me.
Ridding would be more fun thats all

Don't get your hopes up at playing the outlaw hero.

They would probably just stop the sale of all new bikes... so when you crash or blow up your current bike - that's your lot.

[Boob Johnson]

In fact, I'll change that - 75% of the time it's bikers killing bikers.
Blah blah fuckin blah, Jesus this clown is starting to sound like a broken record


:2guns: Katman


You do know you don't make a bit of difference with what you say Katman, no one respects you because of the way you act, your an asshole & you seem to lament on this fact. Ill even go as far as saying your mad rantings (and that's putting it nicely) have nothing to do with motorcycles or their riders but more to do with your own personal struggle with life. You are quite obviously pissed off with the cards you have been dealt & choose to vent on an unrelated subject.


Go see a shrink or get a dog :bash:

[dipshit]

Blah blah fuckin blah, Jesus this clown is starting to sound like a broken record


Disco Dan:
"It is cars not seeing bikes, cars doing stupid things like u-turns in front of bikes, pulling out of intersections etc that is killing bikers."

Katman:
"Wake up man. Half the time it's bikers killing bikers."

Katman:
"In fact, I'll change that - 75% of the time it's bikers killing bikers"

What's the matter Boob? Having trouble following a discussion? Does the truth hurt? Are we a bit oversensitive or something?

[Boob Johnson]

Disco Dan:
"It is cars not seeing bikes, cars doing stupid things like u-turns in front of bikes, pulling out of intersections etc that is killing bikers."

Katman:
"Wake up man. Half the time it's bikers killing bikers."

Katman:
"In fact, I'll change that - 75% of the time it's bikers killing bikers"

What's the matter Boob? Having trouble following a discussion? Does the truth hurt? Are we a bit over sensitive or something?
You haven't been around long have you? :rolleyes:

[jcupit69]

so motorcycles under 600cc dont get hit by vehicles pulling blindly out of intersections?

SSSHHHHH!!!! dont tell them that, they havnt figured that out yet!!!!

I dont get it, the nanny state has gone crazy!!! There's no way they'd get that threw in the uk, youd have far to many pissed off bikers and it would make the traffic even worse!!!

[Katman]

Hey Boob, :finger:

Cock.

:msn-wink:

[limbimtimwim]

May the forces of evil have the google map co-ordinates to his garage.I am the forces of evil.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Styrsj%C3%B6bo+79392+LEKSAND,+V%C3%A4gbeskrivnin g+sweden&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=9

[hospitalfood]

i think we should ban people

[limbimtimwim]

i think we should ban peopleGood idea.

Let's start with used car salesmen and work our way up to hairdressers and politicians.

After that I think we can take a rest for.. Ohh.. 500 years before their species comes back and we need another cull.

[craigs288]

80!!!! .

180

Sorry, thought we was playing darts.

[craigs288]

Blah blah fuckin blah, Jesus this clown is starting to sound like a broken record


:2guns: Katman


You do know you don't make a bit of difference with what you say Katman, no one respects you because of the way you act, your an asshole & you seem to lament on this fact. Ill even go as far as saying your mad rantings (and that's putting it nicely) have nothing to do with motorcycles or their riders but more to do with your own personal struggle with life. You are quite obviously pissed off with the cards you have been dealt & choose to vent on an unrelated subject.


Go see a shrink or get a dog :bash:

I would have to disagree. Sometimes he comes across as an asshole but I find most of his posts are quite funny. Plus he knows how to get someone to bite. Not sure he needs a dog. He gets plenty of bites on this website.

[Boob Johnson]

Hey Boob, :finger:

Cock.

:msn-wink:
You seem to be the one with a crap load of red rep & a tonne of abuse hurdled at you on a regular basis, so who is the cock?



:msn-wink: :rolleyes:

[PrincessBandit]

..."Only those with big balls will survive"...


Last time I looked I didn't have any of those, but i'm still surviving quite well thank you. ;)

[Badjelly]

no one respects you because of the way you act

No-one? This sort of thing pisses me off. You're welcome to your own opinion of Katman, and you're entitled to express it on this forum, within reason, but please don't try to enlist the rest of the world in your support. It's playground bully stuff, saying "we don't like you" when all you're entitled to say is "I don't like you".

[Strider]

Ban 4WD/SUV type vehicles before you ban motorcycles - the thing with motorcycles, is that they're far more likely to kill the rider than anyone else. 4WD/SUV vehicles are quite the opposite. And it's all good to try and reduce road deaths - in fact admirable. But if I choose to ride a motorbike, it's no different to when I choose to go rock climbing, and any other "dangerous" activity. I'm aware of the risks, and I'm willing to take those risks, because otherwise I'd just spend my whole life in a padded room wearing over mits som I'm sure I dont hurt myself.

On the other hand, large SUV vehicles and caravans have a nasty habbit of ploughing into other vehicles and causing the death of innocent third parties.

Not cool.

Ban the drivers who drive 4WD/SRV
and trukies and buses. Hell every body can just ride bikes.:laugh:

[revvinkevin]

At the end of the day the article is a complete crock of shit! Traffic congestion is a bigger issue.

Am I missing something? Here in the UK we have 60 million people and 35-40 million vehicles. You guys have, what?, 4 million people spread over 2 islands. Just what is traffic congestion in NZ?:wacko::wacko:
My 12 mile journey to work used to be filtering past at least 5 miles of bumper to bumper very slow traffic.................every day...........even weekends.
It can take 5 hours to travel 150 miles on 3 lane motorway due to the volume of traffic. Bank holiday weekends we have been known to have tailbacks of 30 or more miles on the M1 and M6 motorways. :weep:


Our best bike roads are saturated with half-wit drivers who think overtaking is illegal and block any attempt to "make progress", and more worryingly, half-wit riders who throw themselves at the scenery (and other road users) with alarming regularity.

you do seem to have the same problems as us with over zealous enforcement though. If we do get to come over there will it be any better or are we just swapping like for like with a different accent?:(

I'm confused now...................................:blink:

[James Deuce]

Am I missing something? Here in the UK we have 60 million people and 35-40 million vehicles. You guys have, what?, 4 million people spread over 2 islands. Just what is traffic congestion in NZ?:wacko::wacko:
My 12 mile journey to work used to be filtering past at least 5 miles of bumper to bumper very slow traffic.................every day...........even weekends.
It can take 5 hours to travel 150 miles on 3 lane motorway due to the volume of traffic. Bank holiday weekends we have been known to have tailbacks of 30 or more miles on the M1 and M6 motorways. :weep:


Our best bike roads are saturated with half-wit drivers who think overtaking is illegal and block any attempt to "make progress", and more worryingly, half-wit riders who throw themselves at the scenery (and other road users) with alarming regularity.

you do seem to have the same problems as us with over zealous enforcement though. If we do get to come over there will it be any better or are we just swapping like for like with a different accent?:(

I'm confused now...................................:blink:

Two things you will learn quickly when you come here.

1. Kiwis think they know what congestion is. They don't, however they contribute dramatically to the problem with their piss poor attitude to owning the road. They don't indicate, they don't let merging lanes do their job, they will cut you up if "steal" their space in the commute and they will drive on the open road at speeds of 10-30 km/hr under the speed limit and block over taking moves and ignore a giant tailback they have created. Aucklanders think 1-2 hours in a car is a long time and Wellingtonians will bitch about 45-60 minutes spent in a car. I don't think the inhabitants of Christchurch complain about anything except not being allowed to wear their Swastikas in public.

2. Kiwis are about the worst drivers in the world, excluding the Indian Sub-Continent and parts of Russia.

[Swoop]

Am I missing something? Just what is traffic congestion in NZ?
It is when the sheep block the road.
Double entendre intended.

[Skyryder]

Vision "Zero = Tunnel vision.

Skyryder