Matching tyres - big deal ??

[prvoke]

So ive got a Bridgestone Battleax on the front - near new as i had to replace it for last wof and i dont ride a whole heap. Rear one is due for this wof check. Do i need to get the same/similar model? Ive found a 140/70r17 Dunlop GPR80 for $120 thats near new and as far as i know its a far better tyre than the battleax. Sweet to run it or not really? Its on a CBR250R and im not getting my knee down or anything.
advise appreciated :)

[SVboy]

I am interested in this too. I have Bridgee bt014s both ends, but wil probably toast the back fairly soon. I want to try Metzler m3s-will putting one on the back be ok, or should my wallet htfu and buy a matched set all at once?

[FROSTY]

its about matching profiles rather than brands to be honest.

[toebug]

its about matching profiles rather than brands to be honest.

Agreed! I have only ever run 2 the same when I have scored a package deal. I tend to run whatever on the front and choose a compound on the rear. I like a rear that is harder in the centre and softer on the sides so I dont square it off commuting. Battleaxes are probably the chepaest out there and I have found them to be very average. I guess you get what you pay for!

[prvoke]

its the right size and for $120 its about $70-$100 cheaper than a new battleax bt45. Im not far off getting my full license so i wont be sticking with the cbr for too much longer either.
think il just grab it then
thanks guys

[Blackbird]

Frosty's spot on the money.:niceone:

If you have different profiles, as you turn into a corner the mis-match will have the same effect as your tyres not being down a common centre line and this will have an impact on both handling and the rate of turn-in. I'm probably over-anal but I always change front and rear tyres together, irrespective of whether the front has a few thousand k's left just for peace of mind.

[NZsarge]

its about matching profiles rather than brands to be honest.

Indeed, most easily done by matching front and rear tyres. :niceone:

[xwhatsit]

its the right size and for $120 its about $70-$100 cheaper than a new battleax bt45. Im not far off getting my full license so i wont be sticking with the cbr for too much longer either.
think il just grab it then
thanks guys
Jesus, where are you buying them from? I got a BT45, fitted, and with a new tube for $135 last week.

Frosty's spot on the money.:niceone:

If you have different profiles, as you turn into a corner the mis-match will have the same effect as your tyres not being down a common centre line and this will have an impact on both handling and the rate of turn-in. I'm probably over-anal but I always change front and rear tyres together, irrespective of whether the front has a few thousand k's left just for peace of mind.
This interests me. I have a slightly worn Avon Roadrunner rear (it's done 18,000-20,000kms but my bike just doesn't wear out tyres), perhaps a touch square, but not much at all. Brand new BT45 front, only a few hundred kilometres on it yet. The bike just chucks itself into corners -- and stays there. It doesn't like sitting up straight. I take my hands off the bars, and I can flick it left and right with my knees and it'll stay turning whatever direction I go; if I want to keep it straight, however, that's a little bit of work.

Certainly makes your life easy in the twisty bits; makes for a hell of a nervous motorcycle, though.

[scumdog]

Jesus, where are you buying them from? I got a BT45, fitted, and with a new tube for $135 last week.

This interests me. I have a slightly worn Avon Roadrunner rear (it's done 18,000-20,000kms but my bike just doesn't wear out tyres), perhaps a touch square, but not much at all. Brand new BT45 front, only a few hundred kilometres on it yet. The bike just chucks itself into corners -- and stays there. It doesn't like sitting up straight. I take my hands off the bars, and I can flick it left and right with my knees and it'll stay turning whatever direction I go; if I want to keep it straight, however, that's a little bit of work.

Certainly makes your life easy in the twisty bits; makes for a hell of a nervous motorcycle, though.

Funny how a new tyre makes a new bike eh!

Often wonder how I managed to get around thecorners at all with the old tyre when I hit the same corners on the new tyres and the bike just falls around the corners.

And as you said, it IS a tad 'nervous' for a while until you get use to it.

[Hitcher]

its about matching profiles rather than brands to be honest.

And how does your average biker know/find out how to do this, other than by running matched pairs of tyres (i.e. same make and model)? Does this mean you should run a dual compound with a single compound, or a track with a sports tourer, as long as the *profile* is the same?

[Kickaha]

Jesus, where are you buying them from? I got a BT45, fitted, and with a new tube for $135 last week..

You probably have got skinny little 18 inch tyres compared to a low profile 17, big difference

I've quite often run mismatched tyres over the years without any problems, but on older bikes with narrow rims, I'm guessing later bikes with lower profile tyres might be a bit more sensitive to tyre selection and profile

[FROSTY]

And how does your average biker know/find out how to do this, other than by running matched pairs of tyres (i.e. same make and model)? Does this mean you should run a dual compound with a single compound, or a track with a sports tourer, as long as the *profile* is the same?
short version YES you COULD
The long version is a heck of a lot more complicated.
Re dual compound with single.
Your bike would be a good example --(i must say Im NOT quoting specifics here just random pulled examples)
Being a sports/tourer You might be wanting to run a Michellen med compound front but to get decent tyre life run a Metzler dual compound rear.
Or -actually Ok you have just recently fitted a ohlins shock. Maybee youv'e comprimised in the past on grip to get better tyre life .
Now you can look at a sportier tyre as the better suspenders mean better tyre life
Or maybee ya get a nail in your metzler front so go for a med compound Pirelli front.
This really is simplifying matters a heap --which is why a GOOD tyre man is your freind

[Blackbird]

short version YES you COULD Your bike would be a good example --(i must say Im NOT quoting specifics here just random pulled examples)
Being a sports/tourer You might be wanting to run a Michellen med compound front but to get decent tyre life run a Metzler dual compound rear.

Indeed. I'm running a Storm rear with a Viper Sport front on my fat sprotsbike. I'd call it a sports tourer but that would provoke argument with Hitch.

[Hitcher]

I still don't understand what you guys are saying about *matching profiles*...

[FROSTY]

Its like breasts mate--a pear would look weird alongside a good ol melon.
profile/shape

[Hitcher]

Its like breasts mate--a pear would look weird alongside a good ol melon.
profile/shape

But a 120/70 17 has a different *profile* to a 180/55 17, no matter what its parentage may be?

[FROSTY]

Um ok --BTB
different tyre desighns have different shapes-imagine cutting a slice through the carcase.
For example
One type of tyre is going to have a sort of triangular looking shape, Another will look rounded.
you cant (ohh ok shouldn't -nothings impossible) fit a rear tyre thats round when the fronts triangular.
actually best way to put it -if you cut a slice across both front and rear tyres the front should fit nicely inside the rear -sorta like stacking bowls

[Hitcher]

I think I understand now, thanks.

[flyingcrocodile46]

Um ok --BTB
different tyre desighns have different shapes-imagine cutting a slice through the carcase.
For example
One type of tyre is going to have a sort of triangular looking shape, Another will look rounded.
you cant (ohh ok shouldn't -nothings impossible) fit a rear tyre thats round when the fronts triangular.
actually best way to put it -if you cut a slice across both front and rear tyres the front should fit nicely inside the rear -sorta like stacking bowls



So the different profiles of my Metzler ME 33 Laser 3.50-19.57H (front) with a Bridgestone Battleax BT45r 130/90-17 m/c (rear) are maybe not a good combo?

My GS1100G specs recommend 3.50V19.4PR and 4.50V17-4PR

I looked in this thread cause I marked up my tyres a couple of days ago to check how close to the edge I get (without pushing it). On the way home today I felt the front slip a smidgen as I was adjusting tighter into a roundabout. I checked the markers and see that the mark is showing a little wear out past the angled tread pattern on the right side (wear has passed across the outer radial groove). I low sided on very old tires about a year and a half ago and while comfortable leaning her over a bit (haven't scrapped pegs though?) I don't want to throw her down the road.

Anyone out there have any experience with tyre selections for quarter ton GS1100's?

[pritch]

And how does your average biker know/find out how to do this,

Basically they don't.

It's quite simple really, tyres are designed by the manufacturers to be used as pairs.

Anything else is unnecessary (and probably uninformed) risk.

Sorry but I do get annoyed seeing silly advice given hereabout which could potentially have serious consequences.

[blossomsowner]

i agree with this....makes sense doesn't it. I currently have a Dunlop front and a michelin pilot power rear.........look to be similar profiles and handles ok but i will still get matching set next time as it has made a big difference in the past for me.

[Drew]

Your front tyre "profile" as you call it, makes a difference to how the bike reacts to whatever input on entry to a corner. The rear will be noticed more on exit.

It's that simple.

So when picking tyres, "matching profiles" is a crock of absolute shit, spouted by people selling tyres. More's the pity that we tend not to ask the obvious question, (what do you mean by that?) for fear of lookin silly. Seems WAY sillier to me to spend money needlessly, but to each thier own.

Choose a rear tyre that does what ya like, and the same with the front. Often a matching pair will be good, if it aint it's irrelevent.

[Drew]

Basically they don't.

It's quite simple really, tyres are designed by the manufacturers to be used as pairs.

Anything else is unnecessary (and probably uninformed) risk. BULLSHIT, tyres are designed to do certain things better or differently to another tyre. If what you say were true, you would need to buy a different front tyre when using a 190/55/17 rear, than if you were on a 180/55/17.


Sorry but I do get annoyed seeing silly advice given hereabout which could potentially have serious consequences.

So dont fuckin speak then ya bloody hypocrit.

[pritch]

BULLSHIT, tyres are designed to do certain things better or differently to another tyre. If what you say were true, you would need to buy a different front tyre when using a 190/55/17 rear, than if you were on a 180/55/17.
So dont fuckin speak then ya bloody hypocrit.

I don't know where to start so I won't. Life must be very simple for some people. Good luck.

[Drew]

I don't know where to start so I won't. Life must be very simple for some people. Good luck.

I give my opinion from what I have tried, what has worked, and what has been different.

You have given no reason for your bollocks theory, (here or in your PM), but somehow think your silence makes you right.

Get a friggin clue. If I had the money to run whatever tyres I wanted on the race bike, I'd be running a 190/55/17 dunlop slick rear, and 120/70/17 Pirelli slick front. I have experienced them as sets, and the front Pirelli offers better feel mid corner, with the Dunlop being unsurpassed in sheer traction on exit.

That comparison has been made on more than one bike, including 180BHP gixxer thou, and my more nimble 794r. The results were the same.

To sum up, dont start, finish, totally.

[Taz]

I also have never had a problem mismatching tyre brands. Have done it for the last 23 years.

[vtec]

Yeah, I've run lots of mismatches. No worries.

with regard to profiles, as a matched set of tyres wears that changes the profiles anyway, and they are still rideable down to the tread depth indicators.

In my opinion run any combo that you like, just replace them before they get too worn or old.

[BM-GS]

A rule of thumb: stick to front & rear combinations pitched at the same rider/riding, ie: both sport-touring,both sport/track or both commuting tyres. Don't pick a race front and a touring rear, for instance. This is mostly about the profiles of the tyres, and so long as they're similar you'll feel much the same thing from both ends of the bike, wear being equal (and not excessive).

Usually, if you ask for something totally unsuitable the tyre shop will tell you. Or someone here will, but you're not paying for their (our) advice!

On the subject of particular tyres, why do some bikes come with specially-made-for-that-model tyres? Assorted Kawasakis of about 2005 (Z750/1000, ZX-6R) had the BT-019 fronts (or something) made just for them. Are they trying to cover up handling deficiencies in the rest of the bike? What happens when you (gasp) try a different front tyre? Was the 6R so nervous that they needed a stable tyre to stop wobbles? Did that tyre land on other bikes just to get the volumes up & prices down? Will I crash when I get a set of something else (dunno what yet) on the Z750?

I doubt it, as basic bike geometry has been worked out over the years and there really are very few very duff tyres out there, from the reputable makers anyway - the magazine reviews and ambulance-chasing lawyers have seen to that. Of course it does mean that race-rep bikes can come with artificially stable tyres that won't let the bike do what it was designed for...

If really you don't like how it feels, maybe tweak the suspension a step or two up or down, or ask for more free advice...

...the next bit of which will be to change both ends at the same time, so that the shagged rear isn't making the new front feel dangerous as you wrestle the rear off its squared-off bottom and suddenly feel that pointy race front tip the bike onto its fairing.

Take a look in the bike-park and see what a motley lot of rubber folk collect on their bikes.

Price, availability, life & grip are the main things. Profiles are a bit different, but you'd be unlucky to find anything that felt even uncomfortable, let alone scary. Sticky tyres have short lives and feel nervous (usually) as they're pointy, for grip when leaned over and faster turn-in, cos people use them to ride like they're Rossi (in their own minds, often). People driving Gold Wings don't like to have to steer to keep straight along the autobahn, so they get much more gently-rounded tyres. The rest of us like to play in the corners without having to fight to go straight, so we get a compromise.

Hope some of that was helpful. Still awake?

BM-GS no longer...

[Subike]

dont know if this is any help but just my 10c worth
bought a Shenko and put it on the front last year,
Did about 500 slow k's on it.
Had a Bridgstone battleaxe on rear, 3/4 worn.
Went or a ride with some other KB"ers,
found the bike to be very twitchy in the corners, not nice. Wandered in a straght line, and was hard to roll into the corners, had to keep at least one hand on the bars at all times or it had a mind of its own.
Distroyed said rear tyre that night, ( vidio footage somewhere on this site)
Replaced the now bald, rear with a Shenko the following week, same "type" as the front tyre.
So in theory have the said "matching pair" and only a max of 1000k difference in mileage on them.
Yeah I know some of you will say Shenko are average to low quality tyres, but Im an average to slow rider compared to others. So thats of no importance.
Now
The bike does not twitch in the corners anymore, I can roll into and out of the corners a lot smoother than before, in a straight line, it does not wander any more, and entering a 50k zone from 100k, I can sit up, let go of the bars and relax, it stays dead straght.
the only other change I have made was to soften the rear shocks, which were on max.
And price? $138 front, $80 rear (on special)
Happy ? yes
Will I go for a different tyre in the future? Maybee

[Drew]

Had a Bridgstone battleaxe on rear, 3/4 worn.


It wasn't the miss matched tyres causing those things, it was the rooted rear.

The older Yamaha cruisers are real sensitive to out of shape tyres, my old XJ was shocking when I got it due to a "squared off" rear tyre.

[Subike]

It wasn't the miss matched tyres causing those things, it was the rooted rear.

The older Yamaha cruisers are real sensitive to out of shape tyres, my old XJ was shocking when I got it due to a "squared off" rear tyre.

O hell yes Drew I agree, the issues were the stuffed rear tyre,
I dont think I suggested that it was because of a miss match, not intentionally anyway.

[yungatart]

Three out of four bikes in our gagre run Pirelli Sport Demons on the rear and Bridgestone BT 45's on the front, a brilliant combination of tyres. They are on 2 sport tourers and a naked sports bike.
The fourth runs Pilot Rd 2's front and rear (GSXR 750).

[DEATH_INC.]

A rule of thumb: stick to front & rear combinations pitched at the same rider/riding, ie: both sport-touring,both sport/track or both commuting tyres. Don't pick a race front and a touring rear, for instance.
Ummmm I've run a 120/70 D208gp front (full race) and a 200/50 D220 rear (sport/touring) around the old Taupo track at a trackday and had no problems, actually worked very well apart from a little sliding from the rear......also run the combo on the road sweet as.
A while back when the Pirelli Diabolicals were first released I got one on the front of the 12 with a Metzeler Sportec rear, thought it was shit hot so got the matching rear.....dunno why but with the rear MATCHING Pirelli it all turned to shit, simply the worst pair of tyres I ever ran on it. Figure that out....

[Drew]

Ummmm I've run a 120/70 D208gp front (full race) and a 200/50 D220 rear (sport/touring) around the old Taupo track at a trackday and had no problems, actually worked very well apart from a little sliding from the rear......also run the combo on the road sweet as.
A while back when the Pirelli Diabolicals were first released I got one on the front of the 12 with a Metzeler Sportec rear, thought it was shit hot so got the matching rear.....dunno why but with the rear MATCHING Pirelli it all turned to shit, simply the worst pair of tyres I ever ran on it. Figure that out....

Flag it bro, the pedants wont accept the opinion of experience, cos they've READ what they spout in a magazine, so it must be true.

[blueblade]

My KTM came with Bridgestone BT 090's which are pretty sticky sports tyres. Got sick of replacing the rear every 1500 kms or so so now I've got a Michelin pilot Road dual compound on the rear (sport touring tyre). Bike still handles great, sticks like shit and hopefully I will get some reasonable mileage. Still got the original 090 on the front and this is my 4th rear.

[vifferman]

I've had six sets of supposedly mismatched tyres, and all but one were OK. When I had the VF500, the tyres almost had to be mismatched, as it had a 16" front wheel and 18" rear. When I bought it, it had a Metzeler (ME33?) front, and IRC rear. I replaced the front tyre when it wore out with a Dunlop SummatOrOther, with a triangular profile, and it was terrible. When the rear was replaced, a very hard Avon went on, that lasted around 5 years. :shit: Even the feeble power (50?) of the VF could spin/slide it on hot tarmac.
I've also had mixed Bridgestones on the VFR750 (BT012F / BT020R), mixed Pirellis on the VTR100 (sport front, S/T rear) and mixed Avons (sport front, S/T rear), and the same on the VFR800. The only problems I've had have been abnormal wear on the front coupled with some squaring off on the back made the handling less than ideal, so I've gone with matched Storms this time.

I think the main thing is to not have radically different profiles front/rear, and it's better to have a softer/stickier front than the rear, rather than the other way round.

[owner]

I brought my bike new, I have been through 3 sets of new 2cts.
my experience,
each time the rear wears out of a new set of 2cts I put the same michelin sport(race profile front/tourer profile rear) on for a while to get the last couple of 1000km out of the front. And it sucks I have to re-adjust every steering input and really consentrate on my line. Its takes one line on entry then picks another one on exit Triangle front/round rear.
I really look forward to a new matching set,

It works fine and I doubt IM any faster on new rubber because I just adjust to it but it feels like I am fighting the bike to get round corners

AND :yes: I have put that same tyre on my rear wheel 4 times now
I know:whocares:

[inlinefour]

Basically they don't.

It's quite simple really, tyres are designed by the manufacturers to be used as pairs.

Anything else is unnecessary (and probably uninformed) risk.

Sorry but I do get annoyed seeing silly advice given hereabout which could potentially have serious consequences.

Plus if your wanting to ride a bike hard, your a fool to not invest on good rubber, suspension and brakes. Going fast is not that difficult, handling a bike quicker in the twisties is. This message is not directed at anyone in particular but I know that some here have not got much money to spend. I've allways brought a matching set for my bikes apart from offroad shitters, where I did not really care, but MX or anything fast the same rules about the 3 things of riding apply. Its not that hard to make a bike go fast, however it is if you want to keep riding fast and stay on it (unless your a dorkland twat that prefers to speed on the sraights and nana it around courners).

[avgas]

Had a Bridgstone battleaxe on rear, 3/4 worn.
Old man always ran a conti/dunlop combo on his XS850's. It suiting the weight of the mag alot better apparently. Ironically enough on his new daytona's he only runs battleaxes - after having trials and failures on all the other brands.
I get to try a new shinko rear tonight :) cos i miss going sideways.

[El Dopa]

My 2c for what its worth.

I've been running a metzler rear and a battleax front on my 4hundy with no isses at all (although it ain't the gruntiest of beasts and I'm a nanna).

I got these fitted at Cycletreads at the same time, so I'd expect them to know what they're talking about (at least a bit).

They told me that the important thing when matching front/rear was to make sure that the profiles matched: radial with radial, and cross-ply with cross-ply. That was really the only important thing.

I'll leave the 'why' up to the experts.

[TygerTung]

It's always worth it to get the best tyres you can, you crash a lot less.

I have been using bt-45 battleaxes alot on my classic 80's 2 strokes and they are very sticky, dump it on the centrestand, footpeg, expansion chamber sticky and they don't budge. I would recomend using a matched pair myself. In my opinion the battleaxe is a very good tyre.

I use a BT39SS on the front of my CG bucket racer and thats very good too.

[mouldy]

Frosty Metzler don't tet make a dual compound tyre and michellen is spelt michelin but even Rossi's on bridgestones now . spot on with that last post

[AllanB]

A rule of thumb: stick to front & rear combinations pitched at the same rider/riding, ie: both sport-touring,both sport/track or both commuting tyres. Don't pick a race front and a touring rear, for instance. This is mostly about the profiles of the tyres, and so long as they're similar you'll feel much the same thing from both ends of the bike, wear being equal (and not excessive).

The main tyre supplier/fitter in Christchurch promotes a sport touring rear with a sport front.

[Robert Taylor]

I have read some of the needlessly aggressive posts on this thread, shame. There is really no need to go spare at a Vietnam vet who has had a lot of life experience and deserves respect for what he has been through.
As a suspension engineer I will put in my 100 cents worth ( even that buys bugger all ) Many tyre problems are because of poor suspension, or the suspension is not matched to the loads and frequency that the carcass characteristic of the tyre imparts to it. Two riders, Robbie Bugden and Andrew Stroud, same bike, same suspension brand, similiar lap times. Andrew on Pirelli, Robbie on Dunlop. The internal settings we installed in the shock and forks were polar opposites. Why?...because Dunlops have a very stiff carcass construction that imparts a lot of load into the suspension, Pirellis have a lot softer sidewall and load the suspension rather differently.
Due diligence must be paid when mixing tyres, Im not saying it doesnt work but eyes must be wide open. YOU CANNOT MAKE SWEEPING GENERALISATIONS BASED ON YOUR OWN LIMITED EXPERIENCE BECAUSE THERE ARE SO MANY VARIABLES.
For example mixing tyres on a lazy old ''spongy pud'' cruiser may not have an adverse affect. But apply the same mentality to a razor sharp sportbike and you can be in trouble.

[homer]

My 2c for what its worth.

I've been running a metzler rear and a battleax front on my 4hundy with no isses at all (although it ain't the gruntiest of beasts and I'm a nanna).

I got these fitted at Cycletreads at the same time, so I'd expect them to know what they're talking about (at least a bit).

They told me that the important thing when matching front/rear was to make sure that the profiles matched: radial with radial, and cross-ply with cross-ply. That was really the only important thing.

I'll leave the 'why' up to the experts.

what they told you about the radial radial , cross ply cross ply . is exactly true
the different pattern dont matter or the make (not entirely ) but you may find that the pressures will need to change to make them match .
i dont think most riders will try to adjust the pressures to see if 2 different tyres will actually work , and they will .

[NP82]

I could also use some help...
I have a shinko rear on my rf900 that was on the bike when I bought it. I need to replace the front sportmax, and I'm wanting to put something nice and sticky on -I'm thinking a pilot road 2, but I have been warned against mixing tyres (I'm not sure if it was due to diff profiles or just diff brands). Should I put a shinko on the front or still go with the pilot? I want to end up with pilots front and rear but can't afford to replace both right now.
Sorry if this has been repeated, but there doesn't seem to be an overwhelming 'for' or 'against' for mixing tyres. Cheers

[klyong82]

Ditch the current tyres you have and buy a set of Michelin Pilot Power 2CT. Good sticky tyres dual compound....if you want a bit more mileage then get a set of Pilot Road 2. You wont be disappointed..

[NP82]

sounds like a plan... Will replace the front now and do the back as soon as I have the funds. I'll probably go for the Pilot Road 2.
Cheers

[klyong82]

sounds like a plan... Will replace the front now and do the back as soon as I have the funds. I'll probably go for the Pilot Road 2.
Cheers

Both are good tyres really depends on your riding style...There's better grip with the PP2ct but if you are careful and mostly ride commuting or the occasional weekend tour then P Road 2 will be sufficient (budget plays the other significant factor too).

[NP82]

Both are good tyres really depends on your riding style...There's better grip with the PP2ct but if you are careful and mostly ride commuting or the occasional weekend tour then P Road 2 will be sufficient (budget plays the other significant factor too).


I'm not a commuter at all... I try to get out during my breaks from uni whenever the weather's good, otherwise on fine weekends. I was hoping that the PR2s would be grippy enough for the twisty roads I enjoy. I don't go scraping the pegs on every corner (just the boots, if anything), but I do like to throw it around the twisties... should I reconsider?

[crazyhorse]

Its your life - how much do you value it??

I won't ever have mismatched tyres on either my bike or car. :whistle: