Bastards on cell phones.

[Mort]

Hey, can someone clarify the law regarding cell phone use when driving a car.


Is it legal in NZ ?
What happens in the event of an accident ?
Do the police actually do anything about it ?
What are the penalties ?


Y'know I see people on the phone all the time.... sometimes there are more drivers n the phone than those not on the phone. Its 'kin lethal... Its madness. I hate seeing it when riding.... its worse than seeing a drunk driver in my opinion.

[skidMark]

Its 'kin lethal... Its madness.

LFv-q0qnTIQ

[James Deuce]

It's perfectly legal even though 33 deaths have been directly linked to cellphone usage while driving, during the 2006-2007 road toll season.

Everyone, up to the Minister of Transport knows that it is an issue but no one is willing to tackle it head on. Cellphone usage causes less than 10% of all motor vehicle related deaths so it can't be THAT bad.

[Patch]

It's perfectly legal even though 33 deaths have been directly linked to cellphone usage while driving, during the 2006-2007 road toll season.

Everyone, up to the Minister of Transport knows that it is an issue but no one is willing to tackle it head on. Cellphone usage causes less than 10% of all motor vehicle related deaths so it can't be THAT bad.
unless your on the receiving end

they are a friggin hazard, and yet these idiots have no fucking clue when you blast your horn at them, knock on their windows, flick the bird at them and hurl abuse - all they give you is a dumb retarded look, what did I do??

[Edbear]

The police can charge the driver with careless use causing death or injury and I suspect, and hope, that we will begin to see these charges being laid in the future.

In my experience it is texting that is the most dangerous as 9 times out of 10 if the car is weaving around they will be texting, if the car is going slow and inconsistent in speed they will be talking.

[crashe]

The police can charge the driver with careless use causing death or injury and I suspect, and hope, that we will begin to see these charges being laid in the future.

In my experience it is texting that is the most dangerous as 9 times out of 10 if the car is weaving around they will be texting, if the car is going slow and inconsistent in speed they will be talking.

There was a segment on 'Close up' recently (either 'Close Up' or 20/20) on cell phone usage in a vehicle, where they tested a number of people.

They discovered that the people tested actually drove better texting than if they were talking on the cell phone.

They found that most of them could text without even looking at the cell phone keyboard.

But for some unknown reason when chatting they got more distracted whilst driving.

It was an interesting test.

[Robbo]

Hey, can someone clarify the law regarding cell phone use when driving a car.


Is it legal in NZ ?
What happens in the event of an accident ?
Do the police actually do anything about it ?
What are the penalties ?


Y'know I see people on the phone all the time.... sometimes there are more drivers n the phone than those not on the phone. Its 'kin lethal... Its madness. I hate seeing it when riding.... its worse than seeing a drunk driver in my opinion.

Unfortunately it appears to still be legal, but it should not be. Have had several close calls involving fuckwits who were texting and trying to drive at the same time.
Hands Free kits should be the only thing allowed to be used while driving.
Have you ever been following a vehicle that appears to be driving normally then suddenly it all changes, they slow down and start to wander all over the road as if they were drunk. Or you are behind them at the traffic lights and they don't move when the lights go green. I'll guarantee that nine times out of ten they are using a cell phone when this happens.
I know there are other distractions to consider as well but this is about cell phones.

[Edbear]

There was a segment on 'Close up' recently (either 'Close Up' or 20/20) on cell phone usage in a vehicle, where they tested a number of people.

They discovered that the people tested actually drove better texting than if they were talking on the cell phone.

They found that most of them could text without even looking at the cell phone keyboard.

But for some unknown reason when chatting they got more distracted whilst driving.

It was an interesting test.

Yeah, it was interesting, but even so, the deaths so far reported due to cellphone use have been because the driver was texting, rather than talking. Either way, the standard of driving here is so appalling generally that it seems most can't cope with either!

[crashe]

Yeah, it was interesting, but even so, the deaths so far reported due to cellphone use have been because the driver was texting, rather than talking. Either way, the standard of driving here is so appalling generally that it seems most can't cope with either!

yep, I watched a dude in Newmarket one day...... just change lanes and almost taking a scooter rider out...

I pulled up beside him to tell him at the next set of lights (50 metres ahead)..... Lets just say that the other person on the end of that ph call got to hear what this driver did wrong.

All the guy said was 'sorry' after looking in his rear view mirror... bit late by then.

Now, he had changed lanes without indicating, never looked and checked his mirrors and he was chatting on the cell phone, totally unaware that he had almost taken out a rider...... or that there was anyone else on the road other than himself.

I hope the other person on the phone quickly hung up so that the driver could concentrate on the road ahead.

[Edbear]

... Lets just say that the other person on the end of that ph call got to hear what this driver did wrong...



ROFL!!!! Good on you! I can just imagine it!

[James Deuce]

unless your on the receiving end

they are a friggin hazard, and yet these idiots have no fucking clue when you blast your horn at them, knock on their windows, flick the bird at them and hurl abuse - all they give you is a dumb retarded look, what did I do??

Hang on, you're not American are you? :)

That was sarcasm.

[MSTRS]

Using a cellphone whilst driving is legal.
BUT like anything else you may do/not do whilst driving, it is covered by the Careless Use scenario. If you do something that contravenes this section of the law, and are seen, you will no doubt be charged with that. If you are involved in an 'accident', what you were doing that lead to that crash makes no difference. It is Careless Use, subject to degrees of, before ramping up to Dangerous Use.

[carver]

im always on the phone while driving company trucks...
especailly on hiways

[Patch]

Hang on, you're not American are you? :)
nah worse than one of 'em

[Hitcher]

The issue isn't cellphones.

The issue is driver inattention. Cellphones are only one thing that contributes to driver inattention. If cellphone use is to be prohibited in cars, then so too should be delinquent rear seat passengers (e.g. small children).

So car drivers use cellphones. They want to kill bikers no matter what else they're doing. HTFU.

[skidMark]

The issue isn't cellphones.

The issue is driver inattention. Cellphones are only one thing that contributes to driver inattention. If cellphone use is to be prohibited in cars, then so too should be delinquent rear seat passengers (e.g. small children).

So car drivers use cellphones. They want to kill bikers no matter what else they're doing. HTFU.

When you get to your age Hitcher HTFU requires a little pill called viagra.

[PrincessBandit]

I sometimes text while driving (one of those who can do it without looking at the number buttons), but then try to be extra vigilant so that it is not at the expense of my road skills. Haven't mastered the art of it with bike gloves on though....;)

[cruza]

We have a road that runs past work ,also follows a river and has several sharp bends in it, apart from a few boy racers who have dumped their cars in the water after losing control on the corners at high speed, several female drivers have done the same while on there cell phones, one even got out of the car still talking as she waded back to the bank,:laugh:

[homer]

It's perfectly legal even though 33 deaths have been directly linked to cellphone usage while driving, during the 2006-2007 road toll season.

Everyone, up to the Minister of Transport knows that it is an issue but no one is willing to tackle it head on. Cellphone usage causes less than 10% of all motor vehicle related deaths so it can't be THAT bad.

That could be potentially people on the phone on the farm or in some other area not necessarily on the road
You know the how we get answers and results bull shit

400 people die from the cars emissions .....not
its actually between 50 and 700 but theres no answer for definate ,so well just go for the middle somewhere

[Mort]

I think texting whilst driving is so reckless as to be utterly disgusting. I know there are far more people who drive automatic cars here than say in the UK where trying to drive and talk is a real hazard.... but even so.... its the fact that drivers attention is else where. Is there any movement towards banning mobile phone driving ....?

Statistically, its far more hazardous to bikers than the cheese cutter issue and we all know the government will look to statistics before using any common sense.

[James Deuce]

That could be potentially people on the phone on the farm or in some other area not necessarily on the road
You know the how we get answers and results bull shit


No, they were road deaths specifically attributable to careless cellphone usage on public roads. This group of deaths were defined as part of the road toll.

[James Deuce]

When you get to your age Hitcher HTFU requires a little pill called viagra.
Maybe. Maybe not. You'll have to wait and see when you get to that age, won't you? :msn-wink:

[Fatjim]

Won't we all.

[DingoZ]

Maybe. Maybe not. You'll have to wait and see when you get to that age, won't you? :msn-wink:

If that age is obtained you mean.......:blink:

[skidMark]

If that age is obtained you mean.......:blink:


Jesus, didn't see that coming. :rolleyes:

[poplar_pete]

There's only 1 thing that bothers me more than someone texting or talking on a mobile phone whilst driving.. Its all those ignorant f......s that feel the need to flick cigarette ash or flick the butts out of car windows whilst Im travelling either behind them or overtaking them.

[fredie]

talking on a hand held phone and texting is banned here. 3 points and fines . :rockon: but it does not stop them :bash:i see hundreds still doing it all day in sydney . i pull up next too them and beep the horn for 30secs :nono::bye:i had this guy in a van swerve fully into my lane at me :gob:cause i beeped the horn . how fuhkin crazy is that :angry:the law has been spoken about too make it harsher like automatic 3 months bann from driving:yes:it makes me sick seeing these fuchkwits turning left from the middle lane on a 6 lane hway cause there not paying attention on the phone. that how i was taken out .put in hospital:whocares:

[Jiminy]

The issue is driver inattention. Cellphones are only one thing that contributes to driver inattention. If cellphone use is to be prohibited in cars, then so too should be delinquent rear seat passengers (e.g. small children).

I believe that hand free systems would mitigate the risk quite significantly. And beyond that, well, a car is a car, so yes, there will always be some distraction for the driver.

Even if you drive extra-defensively, I'm sure you would appreciate a couple of simple measures to reduce the risk.


I sometimes text while driving (one of those who can do it without looking at the number buttons), but then try to be extra vigilant so that it is not at the expense of my road skills. Haven't mastered the art of it with bike gloves on though....;)

Mmmmmmmmmh, makes me think of the drivers who, after a couple of drinks too many, claim that they drive extra cautiously. No matter how vigilant you are, texting is a serious distraction. And if you make it a habit, there might just be this one time when you take your eyes off the road...


There's only 1 thing that bothers me more than someone texting or talking on a mobile phone whilst driving.. Its all those ignorant f......s that feel the need to flick cigarette ash or flick the butts out of car windows whilst Im travelling either behind them or overtaking them.

Agreed. I had a cigarette once bouncing off my face as I often ride with an open visor. Not pleasant.

[swbarnett]

Talking on a cell phone while driving will make a bad driver worse. A good driver will be unaffected by it because they know the phone is secondary. Driving remains the number one priority.

The problem is not cell phones (at least not talking, texting is another matter), the problem is that we have so many bad drivers in the first place.

[swbarnett]

I know there are other distractions to consider as well but this is about cell phones.
But you can't consider cell phones in isolation while those other distractions are also still legal. Besides, we don't need to ban cell phones because the police already have a law that covers drivers that are not paying due care and attention to their driving.

[swbarnett]

I know there are far more people who drive automatic cars here than say in the UK where trying to drive and talk is a real hazard....
Driving a manual car with one hand (either hand) is a skill to be mastered like any other driving skill. I knew someone that lost an arm and continued to drive manuals (both left and right handed). My car is a manual and I often drive only using one hand, no big deal, you just have to be a bit more pro-active about changing into the right gear before a corner.

[roogazza]

I sometimes text while driving (one of those who can do it without looking at the number buttons), but then try to be extra vigilant so that it is not at the expense of my road skills. Haven't mastered the art of it with bike gloves on though....;)

I came across a car on its roof on the Piecock some months back. I said to the young lady, you ok ? make a little mistake did we ? ..... Her answer Nah , I was texting !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How she got it upside down neatly without going over the side baffles me, it was a long way down........ G.

[Jorja]

The police can charge the driver with careless use causing death or injury and I suspect, and hope, that we will begin to see these charges being laid in the future.

In my experience it is texting that is the most dangerous as 9 times out of 10 if the car is weaving around they will be texting, if the car is going slow and inconsistent in speed they will be talking.


Have heard of people being charged with reckless driving but police have to prove it was the talking on cell that caused them to be distracted in the first place.

Agree txting is so much worse. Because you have to look down at your phone instead of the road. Talking on the phone atleast you can still watch where you are going.

They have been talking about making hands free kits a legal reguirement in cars for years but it has never been enforced or become law.

[Mort]

Talking on a cell phone while driving will make a bad driver worse. A good driver will be unaffected by it because they know the phone is secondary. Driving remains the number one priority.

The problem is not cell phones (at least not talking, texting is another matter), the problem is that we have so many bad drivers in the first place.

What total crap.

[Mort]

Driving a manual car with one hand (either hand) is a skill to be mastered like any other driving skill. I knew someone that lost an arm and continued to drive manuals (both left and right handed). My car is a manual and I often drive only using one hand, no big deal, you just have to be a bit more pro-active about changing into the right gear before a corner.

.... and more crap.

[Jiminy]

What total crap.


.... and more crap.

What he says. +1.

[Hitcher]

When you get to your age Hitcher HTFU requires a little pill called viagra.

At my age I need a pill called *Anti-viagra* least I inadvertently poke out the eyes of dwarves or do myself a mischief in revolving doors or elevators.

[Hitcher]

Jesus, didn't see that coming.

I think I last heard that from a slow-moving dwarf...

[Swoop]

At my age I need a pill called *Anti-viagra* least I inadvertently poke out the eyes of dwarves or do myself a mischief in revolving doors or elevators.
Just carry a photograph of Heilen Klerke in your wallet for "those" occasions...

Instant soft-on.

[swbarnett]

What total crap.
A good driver is one that respects driving as an activity that requires the highest priority within the brain while the activity is being undertaken. This does not mean that it has to be the only activity the brain is undertaking at the time. Do you ever talk to your passenger while driving a car (I am assuming that you realised I was talking about cars, not bikes)? For a good driver talking on the cell phone is no more distracting.


.... and more crap.
Have you never driven a manual with one hand? Or are you trying to say that it's not possible and I'm lying to you?

99% of all my cornering in a car is done with one hand. I learnt this because, initially, the second was required to change gear. When I met my one-handed friend in Europe I decided to practice one-handed driving and found it quite easy.

[Mort]

Absolute total shite....

Speaking on the phone, texting, dialing, holding the phone and talking on the phone are all distracting activities. This is made worse if the car is a manual.

Driving whilst on the phone is proven to be as dangerous as drunk driving. People have been killed by drivers distracted by using the phone whilst driving.... and the root cause of those deaths is the use of a phone whilst driving.

[Hitcher]

I think this discussion proves one thing: Passing a law to ban car drivers from talking on cellphones or texting is pointless. Cellphones are an intrinsic part of many people's lives and nothing short of amputation will stop them using them. Attempting to enforce such a law is wasting Police time. There are hundreds of road rules and laws that are flouted daily, about which Police give not a jot. An anti-cellphone-usage law would be just another.

The fact that some people believe that they can text on a cellphone whilst driving with no affect on their ability to control a motor vehicle is stultifying. If they want to kill or maim themselves and their passengers, that's one thing. But please stay well clear of me and mine.

[swbarnett]

Absolute total shite....

Speaking on the phone, texting, dialing, holding the phone and talking on the phone are all distracting activities.
There may be a misunderstanding because I have not been totally clear that I am referring to talking on the cell phone, not dialling or texting.

Talking on a cell phone is no more distracting than a conversation with a passenger. I take it you would not be happy with hands-free kits either?

As to holding the phone, why should it matter where the arm not used to drive is held? If I hang my arm out the window is this distracting?


This is made worse if the car is a manual.
Makes no difference to someone with the competency to drive completely one-handed.


Driving whilst on the phone is proven to be as dangerous as drunk driving. People have been killed by drivers distracted by using the phone whilst driving.... and the root cause of those deaths is the use of a phone whilst driving.
I'm not claiming that all drivers are capable of it, just that it can be done. Poor basic driving skill is the problem, not the phone.


Let me again make it abundantly clear that I am referring to talking, not texting or dialing.

[fredie]

its 3 points here. and fines . it should be a automatic bann 3 months . the morons i have seen useing mobil phone and trying too drive is just more accidents waiting too happen . the law here is a hands free kit is ok

[Mort]

Makes no difference to someone with the competency to drive completely one-handed.

I'm not claiming that all drivers are capable of it, just that it can be done. Poor basic driving skill is the problem, not the phone.


I can't believe what I am reading here.... as a motorcyclist you think its acceptable to drive a manual car whilst talking on the phone. You think using a phone has no impact on peoples attention to the task of driving. You think driving whilst using a phone is a skill which should be learned and not prohibited.

If some idiot knocked you off your bike whilst on the phone would you think the same ? If your best mate was killed by some dozy bastard using the phone would you think the same ? If you had a serious accident whilst driving your car and using a phone do you think your arguement would stand up in court ?

I think you are an idiot.

[Ocean1]

Can't be arsed finding a reference but an Aus study indicated that talking on a cellphone was no more dangerous than talking to a pasenger. It also showed that hands-free kits were statistically no safer, they legislated to ban hand-held use and not hands-free anyway...

[MSTRS]

A good driver is one that respects driving as an activity that requires the highest priority .....
99% of all my cornering in a car is done with one hand. I learnt this because, initially, the second was required to change gear...

Can't quite reconcile the two statements.
And if you have to change gear in a corner, then I suggest you go back to driving school, because you obviously don't know how to drive.

[swbarnett]

Can't quite reconcile the two statements.
If you've got a good grip on the wheel with your hand in the right place you don't need two hands to corner. I'm not cornering so fast that I have to fight with the wheel. And, yes I have hit potholes and had to take evasive action - all one handed.


And if you have to change gear in a corner, then I suggest you go back to driving school, because you obviously don't know how to drive.
Note that I said initially. It's not something I'm in the habit of any more. Although it does happen occasionally when the curvature of a corner increases unexpectedly and the revs become too low once I've scrubbed off a little bit of speed.

BTW: Being able to drive one handed came in really handy when I had my wrist in a cast with a suspected scaphoid fracture.

[idb]

im always on the phone while driving company trucks...
especailly on hiways

I'm driving right now!

[swbarnett]

I can't believe what I am reading here.... as a motorcyclist you think its acceptable to drive a manual car whilst talking on the phone.
Talking, yes. But only as long as their driving is not affected. I have honked at drivers talking on the cell phone because this was not the case.


You think using a phone has no (99% you said) impact on peoples attention to the task of driving. You think driving whilst using a phone is a skill which should be learned and not prohibited.
Don't remember saying 99% (and can't search for it as it's only 3 letters). For a good driver it has no more impact than talking to a passenger. The skill is not driving whilst using a phone, it's driving in the first place.


If some idiot knocked you off your bike whilst on the phone would you think the same ? If your best mate was killed by some dozy bastard using the phone would you think the same ?
Without further evidence I would not automatically assume that the driver was distracted by the cell phone. And if they were it would irk me no more than if they were distracted my anything else (maybe we should ban carrying kids in the back seat?).


If you had a serious accident whilst driving your car and using a phone do you think your arguement would stand up in court ?
I don't know either way. Depends on the judge. The point would be whether or not I was paying due care and attention.


I think you are an idiot.
You're entitled to your opinion. I think you need to lighten up and stop sweating the small stuff but that's just my opinion based on a very narrow view through an internet forum. I could be completely wrong.

FWIW I think society as a whole needs to lighten up. Things are not as bad as we like to make out.

[idb]

I can't believe what I am reading here.... as a motorcyclist you think its acceptable to drive a manual car whilst talking on the phone. You think using a phone has no (99% you said) impact on peoples attention to the task of driving. You think driving whilst using a phone is a skill which should be learned and not prohibited.

If some idiot knocked you off your bike whilst on the phone would you think the same ? If your best mate was killed by some dozy bastard using the phone would you think the same ? If you had a serious accident whilst driving your car and using a phone do you think your arguement would stand up in court ?

I think you are an idiot.

Why...that sure is a mighty high horse you're on there stranger!!!

[Jiminy]

Talking, yes. But only as long as their driving is not affected. I have honked at drivers talking on the cell phone because this was not the case.

Hum, that one I find scary. There might be other drivers around looking at your driving and thinking just the same: "I know how to do it better than him".


For a good driver it has no more impact than talking to a passenger. The skill is not driving whilst using a phone, it's driving in the first place.

You're talking about hand free sets, I assume. Even then, I wouldn't totally agree. When talking to a passenger, you are in the same physical environment. When talking on the phone, you will be more distracted as the sound is not as good, the background noises are different and you might even build a mental picture of the other environment.

Anyway, I'm happy enough for hand free sets, so this is just arguing for the sake of arguing ;)


FWIW I think society as a whole needs to lighten up. Things are not as bad as we like to make out.

Yes, there is also a bit of that :). I just wish the NZ driving standards were better.

[swbarnett]

Hum, that one I find scary. There might be other drivers around looking at your driving and thinking just the same: "I know how to do it better than him".
The drivers I'm referring to encroached on my lane and they happened to be on the phone with no-one else in the car. The phone may not have been the main factor however, they probably would not have paid me any mind even if they weren't on the phone (this has happened just as often, which, in the scheme of things is not all that often).


You're talking about hand free sets, I assume.
Doesn't really matter.


Even then, I wouldn't totally agree. When talking to a passenger, you are in the same physical environment. When talking on the phone, you will be more distracted as the sound is not as good, the background noises are different and you might even build a mental picture of the other environment.
This comes back to what I'm saying about keeping driving as your number one priority. I've never had any image in my head other than where I am at the time while talking on the phone. (Even when sitting at home talking on the phone I don't form a mental picture of anything but where I am.)

[MSTRS]

...You think using a phone has no (99% you said) impact on peoples attention ....
He didn't say that...it was in reference to (his) cornering

Talking, yes. But only as long as their driving is not affected. I have honked at drivers talking on the cell phone because this was not the case.

Precisely why the law is left to apply Careless Use if the driving warrants it.


Don't remember saying 99% (and can't search for it as it's only 3 letters).

Can't search? It's only four pages of posts. And what about 'all posts by...' in the dropdown??

[swbarnett]

Can't search? It's only four pages of posts. And what about 'all posts by...' in the dropdown??
Too true...

"I think our minds must be too highly trained, MagicThise"

[NUTBAR]

The police can charge the driver with careless use causing death or injury and I suspect, and hope, that we will begin to see these charges being laid in the future.

In my experience it is texting that is the most dangerous as 9 times out of 10 if the car is weaving around they will be texting, if the car is going slow and inconsistent in speed they will be talking.

ive seen police driving & talking on cell phones, careless use of motor vehicle?

[fredie]

police are exempt from the laws here:Police:even if its a social call:rolleyes:

[Ripperjon]

Over in the UK you can, and will, get done for "driving with undue care and attention" for using a phone that isn't "hands-free" whilst driving.

In fact people are often done these days for eating while driving. I remember reading a story in the paper over there when the whole no-eating thing started happening about a guy that was whacked a big fine (cant remember exactly how big) for eating a Kit-Kat (chocolate bar) while driving.

Seems harsh when you consider that smokers are fine to potter along with a smoke in one hand flicking their carcino-crap out the window every so often.

Anything that distracts a driver is potentially dangerous.

:Oi:And for anyone to say that texting is only dangerous if you're a bad driver is hilarious. I should take a book with me next time behind the wheel to read between messages eh? That would be sweet right?

Michael Schumacher (Lap 72);

Ring ring. "oh its ze phone"
"good job i'm a shit hot driver otherwise zis would be distracting"
"Hello?"

[swbarnett]

In fact people are often done these days for eating while driving.
Can anyone say cotton wool? Some people just don't want to live in the real world.

[fredie]

how about a life sentence :gob:http://www.channel4.com/4car/news/news-story.jsp?news_id=16888&intcmp=rss_4car_news :gob:

[swbarnett]

how about a life sentence :gob:http://www.channel4.com/4car/news/news-story.jsp?news_id=16888&intcmp=rss_4car_news :gob:
Complete and utter madness! :angry2:

There but for the grace of (insert deity here...) go each and every one of us. The law today is turning every "butter wouldn't melt in their mouth" law abiding citizen into a criminal.

Makes me want to start my own country.

They're trying to make life so "safe" it's not worth living.

[Owl]

Complete and utter madness! :angry2:

There but for the grace of (insert deity here...) go each and every one of us. The law today is turning every "butter wouldn't melt in their mouth" law abiding citizen into a criminal.

Makes me want to start my own country.

They're trying to make life so "safe" it's not worth living.

It's only madness in your opinion! I'd be :lol:,:clap: and :woohoo: if they introduced that here. I for one am sick of seeing shit drivers with cell phones.
You claim that 99% of your cornering is done with one hand and come across like it’s something to be proud of. It’s just another bad habit! I got a lecture about that from the MOT officer that took me for my driving test many years ago, which brings me to my next point. Would you consider it appropriate to talk on a cell phone while sitting a driving test? After all, if it’s a normal everyday driving practise, it should be ok right?

[BiK3RChiK]

It's only madness in your opinion! I'd be :lol:,:clap: and :woohoo: if they introduced that here. I for one am sick of seeing shit drivers with cell phones.
You claim that 99% of your cornering is done with one hand and come across like it’s something to be proud of. It’s just another bad habit! I got a lecture about that from the MOT officer that took me for my driving test many years ago, which brings me to my next point. Would you consider it appropriate to talk on a cell phone while sitting a driving test? After all, if it’s a normal everyday driving practise, it should be ok right?

Hahaha I'd like to see anyone pass a driving test with a cellphone clapped to their ear or while texting the whole time! It wouldn't happen!! Firstly, I don't think anyone would even consider trying this on while going for their driver/rider testing, and secondly, I don't think any testing officer worth their salt would pass anyone trying such a thing on!!

Cellphones and driving/riding do not mix, IMO! I've seen too much scary driving caused by inattention because of cellphones to convince me otherwise. Also, any other distraction whilst driving is just as dangerous. My kids get the message if they cause any distraction in the vehicle. In some situations, even adjusting the stereo could be hazardous!

Driving requires maturity and concentration! After all, we are driving lethal weapons which cause injury, maim and kill many people every year!

M

[swbarnett]

It's only madness in your opinion! I'd be :lol:,:clap: and :woohoo: if they introduced that here. I for one am sick of seeing shit drivers with cell phones.
Yes, they do exist. But to be given a life sentence for it is just going too far. If you kill someone as a result of your actions while driving you deserve to be dealt with severely, maybe have your license taken away for life but not your freedom.


You claim that 99% of your cornering is done with one hand and come across like it’s something to be proud of.
Let me be clear that I'm talking about car driving not bikes. And are you honestly telling me that you can't drive a car with one hand? (assuming that you do drive a car at times)


It’s just another bad habit!
One person's bad habit is another person's skill. It's all about context.


I got a lecture about that from the MOT officer that took me for my driving test many years ago,
Well, when I took my test I only had one hand on the wheel 99% of the time. The only comment that the officer made at all was that I rested my other hand on the gear lever and that would wear the gears faster. He was happy with the rest. It was only after that that I started to put both hands on the wheel.


which brings me to my next point. Would you consider it appropriate to talk on a cell phone while sitting a driving test? After all, if it’s a normal everyday driving practise, it should be ok right?
No, I wouldn't answer the phone during a test. Not because I think the officer would fail me but for the same reason that I don't answer the phone in a meeting at work - it's disrespectful to the people that are supposed to have your attention at the time.

[swbarnett]

Cellphones and driving/riding do not mix, IMO! I've seen too much scary driving caused by inattention because of cellphones to convince me otherwise.
Just because some people are incapable of performing a certain action doesn't mean others can't. Should we ban mountain climbing for everybody because some idiots do it unprepared and get themselves and others into trouble.


Also, any other distraction whilst driving is just as dangerous. My kids get the message if they cause any distraction in the vehicle. In some situations, even adjusting the stereo could be hazardous!
Agreed. It's a matter of having the discipline to not allow yourself to be distracted.


Driving requires maturity and concentration! After all, we are driving lethal weapons which cause injury, maim and kill many people every year!
Agreed. My only contention is that for some people answering a cell phone is not a distraction. (Just to be clear I would never dial out or text while driving).

[Ripperjon]

Holy shit, i didn't know about that.

Jail is probably going a bit far.

Maybe public lashing instead?:bash:

[swbarnett]

Holy shit, i didn't know about that.

Jail is probably going a bit far.

Maybe public lashing instead?:bash:
Actually, for some I'd be in favour of that.

[Mort]

There is no doubt in my mind that using a mobile phone is dangerous.


Reactions : There is proven evidence that everyones reactions are impaired when using a phone. If you are speaking on the phone you will not be able to react to an unexpected event as quickly as if you were not using the phone. This is scientifically proven and to illustrate the point see this simulator :HERE (http://www.stoppingdistances.org.uk/simulator/Stopping_Distances.html). If a child runs out from a behind a parked car you will lose that split second which will be the difference between hitting the child and stopping safely. It will have fuck all to do with the "skill" required to take a corner one-handed.



Mobile phones have caused deaths. FACT. Drivers have been distracted and have caused death and injury. This is ackowledged by the drivers themselves. Put it another way, there are people who would be walking around today if mobile phones were banned whilst driving.



SWBARNETT: You are without doubt a shallow minded, arrogant twat of the highest order. Its people like you who are the problem. People who think their "skill" will help them avoid all situations. People who think their phone call is more important than the life of someone they may kill on the road. People who think they have a right to risk other peoples lives because they are so stupid, arrogant and selfish.

[howdamnhard]

Yes its legal and the Fu#$wit Government won't make it illegal even though many people have been killed.But that would be common sense then wouldn't.:angry2:

[swbarnett]

There is no doubt in my mind that using a mobile phone is dangerous.

Reactions : There is proven evidence that everyones reactions are impaired when using a phone.

Shit, that's a big study, 6billion participants! A population study can suggest or give evidence, it cannot prove anything.


If you are speaking on the phone you will not be able to react to an unexpected event as quickly as if you were not using the phone.
What about talking to the passenger? Besides, I have my own empirical evidence that this is not the case for all drivers.


This is scientifically proven
See above.


Mobile phones have caused deaths. FACT. Drivers have been distracted and have caused death and injury. This is ackowledged by the drivers themselves.
The driver is not always the best judge of this. Not that I'm disputing your point here. Yes, there are drivers that should not be doing anything else while driving (even driving). I have a colleague that won't even talk to the passenger.


Put it another way, there are people who would be walking around today if mobile phones were banned whilst driving.
Of this I am in no doubt. However, there are people who would be walking around today if cars were banned.


SWBARNETT: You are without doubt a shallow minded, arrogant twat of the highest order. Its people like you who are the problem. People who think their "skill" will help them avoid all situations. People who think their phone call is more important than the life of someone they may kill on the road. People who think they have a right to risk other peoples lives because they are so stupid, arrogant and selfish.
Until you know me personally you have no basis for this abuse (although I do respect your right to hold the opinion).

I definitely do not think the call is more important than someone else's life (just ask the person left dangling on the other end of the phone).

My skill will definitely help me avoid all situations. As will yours (this even applies to those with very little skill). That doesn't mean it will always be enough. I just don't accept that the cell phone is a factor in reducing every driver's skill any more than talking to the passenger.


As far as the law goes I'll say it again, you don't need to ban cell phone use while driving. Just use the laws that are already on the books against someone that is obviously not in control of their vehicle. This way you catch any distraction and don't need an extra law for each one (which is impossible to do as the list of possible distractions is endless).

[swbarnett]

I was wondering when it was going to happen. Nearly 600 posts and almost as much green rep and I finally get my first red. Simply for having an opinion that differs from his Mort has seen fit to add some colour to my rep list. Me, I'm happy to agree to differ at this point as I can see we're never going to agree. There simply isn't enough scientific evidence either way (and I don't mean population studies or anecdotal crash analysis).

I analyse my driving all the time (that's one reason I'm still alive). I've analysed my use of cell phones as well. I used to dial out but quickly came to the conclusion that this was not a good idea. Answering calls, however, I've not found a problem with.

The problem is not the cell phone/child/wife/scenery/[insert distraction here], it's the driving!

[Mort]

Well I'm sorry if you got all offended like the vicars wife at a tea party.

I posted a legitimate post up about car drivers on the phone being a danger to motorcyclists. Possibly one of the greatest dangers we, as bikers face. Its a new danger, one which didnt exist say, 15 years ago.

You on the other hand, use this post (on a motorcycle forum) as means to support this practice by claiming yourself as a super-skilled practitioner of car driving whilst on a mobile phone, claiming it has no affect on YOUR driving because, for some reason you are a better driver than everyone else.

[MaxB]

Not sure if this has been mentioned but I read somewhere (I think it was a TRL research report) that in-car risks are a function of the time over which the driver is distracted. Thee was also a bit about the difference between active and passive distractions.

The cellphone was considered the worst combination of the risky activities e.g. it is an "active" distraction over a long time period.

Playing with the iPod, radio or picking your nose are all over relatively quickly but these days cellphones, GPS units and DVD players take much more of the drivers time and attention. The complicated set up and menu systems don't help either. Ever tried the first BMW iDrive system?

[swbarnett]

Well I'm sorry if you got all offended like the vicars wife at a tea party. ...
No, not offended. Frustrated perhaps but that's all part of a good argument.

I thought you had taken offence. After all, it was you who gave the red rep.

Apologies if my tone was not always the best (tends to happen when I reply too quickly, my post count has been too high lately, gotta slow down and take a breath).

[Mort]

...well I don't know if you are a superb troll, thick skinned or just plain thick....

Do me a favour... when you are on the phone.... make sure you are parked on your driveway.

Mort

[Maki]

There was a segment on 'Close up' recently (either 'Close Up' or 20/20) on cell phone usage in a vehicle, where they tested a number of people.

They discovered that the people tested actually drove better texting than if they were talking on the cell phone.

They found that most of them could text without even looking at the cell phone keyboard.

But for some unknown reason when chatting they got more distracted whilst driving.

It was an interesting test.

The reason is actually quite well known. The fact is that the microwaves you are exposed to while talking on the phone (the phone is next to your head) affect your brain. That's right, your brain works by sending electrical impulses between brain cells. These can and are disturbed by the electromagnetic field generated by the cell phone. It follows that texting is less dangerous because the disturbing electromgnetic field is farther away from your brain when you are texting than when you are talking.
Cell phone companies know this. Now you do too. Why didn't you know this before? Because megabucks are involved in the cell phone industry and if it becomes common knowledge that cell phones have a negative effect on your brain function and may also increase the incidence of certain forms of cancer money will be lost.
You dont' believe it? You think agencies such as the governement, etc. should protect you against such things? Look at the history of cigarettes. The risks were well known for decades before cigarette companies admitted anything or governements began warning people. Your health is YOUR responsibility, no one is going to take care of it for you.
Driving while talking on the cell phone is as bad or worse as driving while drunk and the same penalties should apply.

[swbarnett]

The reason is actually quite well known. The fact is that the microwaves you are exposed to while talking on the phone (the phone is next to your head) affect your brain.
Interesting theory.

This would suggest that the length of the conversation is of importance i.e the problem may just be those that are glued to the phone, whereas those like myself that only engage in short exchanges (of usually less than a minute or two, whether driving or not) are not as affected.

[Skyryder]

I see on the news tonight some dick gets Home Detention after killing an elderly couple while texting. Did not catch all of this but seems forking out $10,000 might have saved his bacon from doing porridge. Govmt. Not interested in banning cell phones.

Skyryder

[BiK3RChiK]

I see on the news tonight some dick gets Home Detention after killing an elderly couple while texting. Did not catch all of this but seems forking out $10,000 might have saved his bacon from doing porridge. Govmt. Not interested in banning cell phones.

Skyryder

Oh, he was twice over his legal alcohol limit too...

[Manxman]

But you can't consider cell phones in isolation while those other distractions are also still legal. Besides, we don't need to ban cell phones because the police already have a law that covers drivers that are not paying due care and attention to their driving.

Couldn't agree more...why create specific legislation (costing how many $m ??) for something that is a l r e a d y c o v e r e d by existing law? The answer lies in the application of the existing law (oh, and driver education).

[Swoop]

Oh, he was twice over his legal alcohol limit too...
He was probably ordering a pizza.

[heyjoe]

'Dick' is too kind as a word for this guy. His actions (using the cell phone to text whilst being drunk and driving) killed an elderly husband and wife on their way home from celebrating their 49th wedding anniversary.

IMO there is NOTHING so so important that it has to be communicated whilst driving while intoxicated. He could have stopped and used his phone if need be.

[PrincessBandit]

He was probably ordering a pizza.

Perhaps a nice hot curry?