super motards at the cemetery circuit

[jellywrestler]

now heres a controversial subject that has got the opinions flying thick and fast so how about all you kiwibikers having your say on this class, and how it is at wanagnui.
keen to hear from both riders and spectators and comments on the good and not so good points.

[nadroj]

I love watching them on the seal but couldn't give a flying ____ for the dirt section. Also they are only one class & should be treated as such. The Euro's have been cross entered in too many classes in the past at the expence of others. My 2c

[bistard]

yes,I agree,Motards should have one class.no dirt section & bring back separate 600 & open classes,less classics,put the Pits back in the rail yards,Wanganui was one of the Premier Road Race meetings of the year,now it is a Farce,get back to basics

[scott411]

look at the numbers,
the motards filled to classes, and then they let them into bears as well so thier would be enough riders to make the class, i agree thier should be one rule for all with cross entering, if the class can not survive without cross entering then it should be aloud to die,

the class struture needs to be looked at for sure,

[merv]

Agree entirely with Bistard.

I like dirt bikes in their place and I don't think Wanganui is one of them and we did talk about this previously after Wanganui. There needed to be more real race bike races in my view keeping in the tradition of that track that once hosted the Marlboro Series.

However it did give me time to walk the pits when they were on after I'd seen the 'tards just too many times already.

[scott411]

the reality is thier is not enough superbikes and 600's to fill the classes, you can not have more races if their is not the bikes,

as for the pits, i am pretty sure they are not aloud to use the railway yards anymore,

i still beleive that wanganui is the best races road race of the year,

[roogazza]

yes,I agree,Motards should have one class.no dirt section & bring back separate 600 & open classes,less classics,put the Pits back in the rail yards,Wanganui was one of the Premier Road Race meetings of the year,now it is a Farce,get back to basics

+1` its fucked ! Change back or lose it ? G.

[nadroj]

A suggestion would be to allow entry into a max of 2 classes (not excluding selection in 'Formula Wanganui' by laptime). 400 motards could cross enter open motard or F3? Euro motards - Bears etc That should fill classes without domination of 1 class.
Paeroa has been a better spectacle for the last 2 years in my opinion.
Wanganui has the history - listen to the fans & don't blow it!

[MIXONE]

I was at Wanganui and the bikes that were impressing the non-bikers there was the motards backing it in on the seal.Drop the dirt section if you have to but not the tards.

[Shaun]

yes,I agree,Motards should have one class.no dirt section & bring back separate 600 & open classes,less classics,put the Pits back in the rail yards,Wanganui was one of the Premier Road Race meetings of the year,now it is a Farce,get back to basics




Well said that man

[Burrt Badger]

I ask just one question. Is it a Road Race meeting or an MX meeting????????
Give the Motards their one class, BUT DUMP THE OFF ROAD SECTION!!! If its a Road Race meeting, people generally go to Road Race meetings to watch??????? Road Race. They want to see the Superbikes AND the 600's in their own classes, not in one class.

[scott411]

I ask just one question. Is it a Road Race meeting or an MX meeting????????
Give the Motards their one class, BUT DUMP THE OFF ROAD SECTION!!! If its a Road Race meeting, people generally go to Road Race meetings to watch??????? Road Race. They want to see the Superbikes AND the 600's in their own classes, not in one class.

i think people go to the streets for the specticale, and the variety of bikes and classes, and the fact they are promoted properly helps a shit laod as

the purest may not like the motards, but the general crowd seems to, i do get the point about 2 classes of motards, i much prefer watching 2 claases of motards at wanganui, than the classic classes at pearoa, but its waht i am into, i am sure the sidecar people would like to see 2 classes of their favourites,

have you been to a true road race national meetings in a few years, none of them get the crowd wanganui or pearoa do ,

thier is a national road race in my home town this weekend, no local promotion has gone on, hopefully thier will be an article in the local paper tomorrow,

[jellywrestler]

lots of thoughts but not really much in the way of facts. what about some reasoning behind some of these thoughts? eg put the pits back in the rail yeards.
great but why????

keep em coming

[Kickaha]

One motard class and no off road section, seperate 600/1000 classes, I've only spectated and raced there with the pits in the current position and see no problem with it except the crowd getting in the way on the way to the dummy grid

[jellywrestler]

with the pits in the current position and see no problem with it except the crowd getting in the way on the way to the dummy grid[/QUOTE] quote from kickaha


so what about the extra time invloved with them where they are, ie 3/4 lap return time instead of 1/2 a lap. 1/2 a lap more to get to the grids? times this by 18 races and it gobbles a lot of time up...

[scrivy]

people go to the streets for the specticale, and the variety of bikes and classes, and the fact they are promoted properly helps a shit laod as.......

thier is a national road race in my home town this weekend, no local promotion has gone on, hopefully thier will be an article in the local paper tomorrow,

Hold on..... we all lost our prizemoney to help advertise the Nationals supposedly.... has there been nothing advertised about Puke in Auckland?

[scrivy]

with the pits in the current position and see no problem with it except the crowd getting in the way on the way to the dummy grid quote from kickaha


so what about the extra time invloved with them where they are, ie 3/4 lap return time instead of 1/2 a lap. 1/2 a lap more to get to the grids? times this by 18 races and it gobbles a lot of time up...

Would it not matter where you put the pits - the time taken to get to the start line and time taken to get back to the pits would be the same no matter where the pits were?? :blink:
As for gobbling up time, the Manfeild round of the Nationals had us doing a full complete cool down lap! :wacko:

[jellywrestler]

Would it not matter where you put the pits - the time taken to get to the start line and time taken to get back to the pits would be the same no matter where the pits were?? :blink:
As for gobbling up time, the Manfeild round of the Nationals had us doing a full complete cool down lap! :wacko:

not so. after a race theres less than half a lap and if there's an incident on the esses or roberts island traffic can still get to the pits. for the warm up riders either dont get a full lap of have to do nearly two. in the old spot riders did half a lap before one full warm up lap. it may not seem different but the ergonomics are. over so many races.
but i welcome discussions

[Kickaha]

with the pits in the current position and see no problem with it except the crowd getting in the way on the way to the dummy grid



so what about the extra time invloved with them where they are, ie 3/4 lap return time instead of 1/2 a lap. 1/2 a lap more to get to the grids? times this by 18 races and it gobbles a lot of time up...

With the pits in the railway yard (i'm assuming this is near the off road section) my understanding is the start finish was always in the same place as it is now, so unless there was only 1/2 a lap warm up to get to the dummy grid rather than 1-1/2 laps, you wouldn't be saving much

classes
1000cc
600cc
F3
Sidecars
Post Classic
Motards (one class)

cancel BEARs as it just becoming another motard class anyway and run 3 races per class

[ArcherWC]

Hold on..... we all lost our prizemoney to help advertise the Nationals supposedly.... has there been nothing advertised about Puke in Auckland?


If I wasnt a biker, I would know NOTHING about the nationals this weekend.

There has been absolutly NO advertising in Auckland.

VERY poor effort

[bistard]

lots of thoughts but not really much in the way of facts. what about some reasoning behind some of these thoughts? eg put the pits back in the rail yeards.
great but why????

keep em coming

Pits in the Railyards,much more space for competitors,I believe safer,for all concerned,dummy grid one one side of the road & entry the other side, Hey it worked very well for the previous 45 years or so

[Shaun]

I asked the Wanganui M/C Club a few years ago now, WHY are we in different pit area these days?

They told, it was because of INSURANCE ISSUES!

BULLSHIT, if there were any Insurance issues, HOW THE HELL CAN THEY HAVE CHOOK CHASERS hooning through there?

The new pit area is way more DANGEROUS than the old, and it is also very difficult on accasions, due to the paying fans being able to wandering around at will the way they do

[Robert Taylor]

I asked the Wanganui M/C Club a few years ago now, WHY are we in different pit area these days?

They told, it was because of INSURANCE ISSUES!

BULLSHIT, if there were any Insurance issues, HOW THE HELL CAN THEY HAVE CHOOK CHASERS hooning through there?

The new pit area is way more DANGEROUS than the old, and it is also very difficult on accasions, due to the paying fans being able to wandering around at will the way they do

Jeez Shaun, youre getting as opinionated as me, careful!

[scott411]

I asked the Wanganui M/C Club a few years ago now, WHY are we in different pit area these days?

They told, it was because of INSURANCE ISSUES!

BULLSHIT, if there were any Insurance issues, HOW THE HELL CAN THEY HAVE CHOOK CHASERS hooning through there?

The new pit area is way more DANGEROUS than the old, and it is also very difficult on accasions, due to the paying fans being able to wandering around at will the way they do

Shaun, until you run an event, you have no idea how fucked up some relationships with land owners and stupid things you have to do to get events to happen, i would presume that someone that owns the rail yards did not think their insurance would cover that, i have had similar things with land owners, i think it is the land owners way to get thier way to get things, some things do not make sense, but you haev to do them to appease people,

i would hate to imagine the shit and paperwork you would have to go though to run a street race, thier is reason's so many have been and gone, because its hard frustrating work it, with little in the way of thanks because every bastard has a negitive opinion on something you haev done,

Similar situation is the fact the fire extingusihers in the forest rule, they are so small they would not do anything, yet every rider has to carry them, stupid rule, but its thier forest we are alouf to ride in,

as for closed pits, their are fores and negitives to both, some fans love it, but i am a bit with you, its a nightmare when you are riding, and trying to get to the dummy grid or back to the pits,

[scott411]

classes
1000cc
600cc
F3
Sidecars
Post Classic
Motards (one class)




you look at the numbers and post classics had the least riders of any class, so they should be dropped before bears?? (check mylaps.com only 15 riders)

to be honest i agree with you, the 600's should have their own race,

and bears needs to go as well, it is only kept alive because they allow cross entereing in that class only, i can not see why i should be discrimated against due to the fact i ride a jap bike, (bears only meetings are a different kettle of fish by the way)

[Shaun]

Jeez Shaun, youre getting as opinionated as me, careful!


Perhaps that comes from coming from the same home town, and working together for so long eh:Punk:

As people on here and around the scene get to KNOW you better Robert, they will start to understand your opinions more, your;e an intelligent educated buisness man, and as some of your posts show, you do a LOT OF THINKING ( OFTEN WAY TO MUCH MATE)

I see you pushing your buisness on here big time, and well done for joining in on the scene here on KBIKER:Pun Some people may think that you are only pushing your product for MONEY, MAYBE? NO! I know you love what you do:Police:

But people like me that do know you well, Know that your intensions are all good:headbang:


PS, very well done on suppling TEAM YOSHIMURA SUZUKI AUSTRALIA with shit hot fork settings, that created a new lap record and race wins with Sean Giles on the weekend

[Shaun]

Shaun, until you run an event, you have no idea how fucked up some relationships with land owners and stupid things you have to do to get events to happen, i would presume that someone that owns the rail yards did not think their insurance would cover that, i have had similar things with land owners, i think it is the land owners way to get thier way to get things, some things do not make sense, but you haev to do them to appease people,


IF SO, how did the insurance work then, to allow the DIRT bikes through the yard?


as for closed pits, their are fores and negitives to both, some fans love it, but i am a bit with you, its a nightmare when you are riding, and trying to get to the dummy grid or back to the pits,


I know the fans love it, but we do have a thing in NZ these days call OSH! So what is going to happen, if a fan gets hurt in the pits, where a club is making money? and riders are making money if in the prize position?

The pits at Wanganui are now extremelly DANGEROUS, Fans and crew with cigarettes going every where, how many bikes and people and GAS all in such a tight confined space?

It is now a recipe for a dissaster

[Crasherfromwayback]

Well I've been riding dirtbikes on and off at Wangas for years...and I think they're over doing the motard thing. Fuck the off road section. It's a road race meeting. One motard class. We don't want to outstay our welcome.

[Shaun]

Well I've been riding dirtbikes on and off at Wangas for years...and I think they're over doing the motard thing. Fuck the off road section. It's a road race meeting. One motard class. We don't want to outstay our welcome.


Well said, and from an x road racer, thankyou for saying so

[scott411]

Well I've been riding dirtbikes on and off at Wangas for years...and I think they're over doing the motard thing. Fuck the off road section. It's a road race meeting. One motard class. We don't want to outstay our welcome.

i would be under the impression that the club had the choice, they run the thing, and they run it as they see fit,

[Crasherfromwayback]

i would be under the impression that the club had the choice, they run the thing, and they run it as they see fit,

The thing is Scott...I've raced 250 proddie and 883's there too...and I know how frustrating it is from the road racers side of things. We have plenty of offroad/motard meetings we can do throughout the year...we don't need to hold things up for everyone else on Boxing day. Notice how sick of rugby everybody is getting?? Too much of a good thing is not the answer.

[scott411]

if the club wants to run a motard section, (and they obviously do) who are we to tell them no,

thier are alot of locals that seem to like it, i can think of 3 or 4 young guys from down their that ride motards, they do the work, they put the thing on, its up to them,

if someone from down the line rings me and tells me how to rung things at meeting i run, they get told the same thing, our meeting, our way, if you do not like it, don't come,

[Shaun]

if the club wants to run a motard section, (and they obviously do) who are we to tell them no,


WE ARE THE RIDERS AND FANS THAT PUT THE MONEY BACK INTO THE CLUB THAT RUNS THESE EVENTS!

thier are alot of locals that seem to like it, i can think of 3 or 4 young guys from down their that ride motards, they do the work, they put the thing on, its up to them,

if someone from down the line rings me and tells me how to rung things at meeting i run, they get told the same thing, our meeting, our way, if you do not like it, don't come,




Perhaps that is a reason why crowd attendance is so low at race tracks:calm:

[Crasherfromwayback]

if someone from down the line rings me and tells me how to rung things at meeting i run, they get told the same thing, our meeting, our way, if you do not like it, don't come,

You (they) won't have a meeting if all the other classes get the shits and don't bother turning up mate.

[Shaun]

You (they) won't have a meeting if all the other classes get the shits and don't bother turning up mate.



Again GOOD ON YA

It is about time the riders in this country stood together, and told these clubs what they want!

The 600 class alone, is over $ 1 Million dollars on the GRID

That is a dam serious buisness, not just a bloody game.

[scott411]

You (they) won't have a meeting if all the other classes get the shits and don't bother turning up mate.


if they (the club) get fucked off with the shit and can't be assed running the meeting anymore, then their will not be one either, same difference, same result,

[Shaun]

if they (the club) get fucked off with the shit and can't be assed running the meeting anymore, then their will not be one either, same difference, same result,

So just like any BUISNESS eh- If ya do not like what a customer says to you, would you kick them out of your shop? NO, Because that is your personell profit MONEY



Great attitude dude

If the club runs NO MEETINGS, there is NO CLUB!

And that CLUB would not get OWN buildings, from the profit made over the years from running meetings

[sunhuntin]

as a spectator and fan of most racing, i must say im not a fan of the motards. ok for one race, but not more than that. the dirt section is pretty interesting, but its too small... the corners got churned up pretty quick [after one or two laps] and that ends with riders ending up on their sides, which could end up in a serious injury by following riders.

as for spectators in the pits... i like walking the pits, but there needs to be set rules for non racers. like, defined "footpaths" that are roped off to keep viewers out of the middle of the road. i could see last year that some pedestrians were all over the damn show, getting in the way of those coming and going on bikes. bit like riding a bike down the middle of a shopping mall.

the pit set up for the burt challenge seems to work well... not sure exactly whats different, but at both teretonga and wyndham, i was able to walk through without nearly being run over by riders avoiding other pedestrians getting in their way. might be the fact that both sets of pits are HUGE... not all crammed down one road... they are spread out. wyndham covers a road, plus several large truck yards... so most pits are in those yards, with the road mainly for those who are getting ready for a race. [getting started etc]

im in two minds over whether im going to attend boxing day this year... after the way they screwed over trashy and the others over the grid positions last year.

[scott411]

So just like any BUISNESS eh- If ya do not like what a customer says to you, would you kick them out of your shop? NO, Because that is your personell profit MONEY


that is not a fair comparson,
if you ran your business like the Wangaui street race you would go hungry, because you would not get paid,

if the street race is run like a business (ie everyone got paid for their labour) the street race would have stopped years ago, cause it would loose shit loads every year.

what keeps it going is the passion and the pride of the wanganui MCC members that give up thier time and money to keep it going, that is why they get to choose how its run,

and the fact that it has kept been run for so long shows thier comitment,

[Shaun]

that is not a fair comparson,
if you ran your business like the Wangaui street race you would go hungry, because you would not get paid,

if the street race is run like a business (ie everyone got paid for their labour) the street race would have stopped years ago, cause it would loose shit loads every year.

what keeps it going is the passion and the pride of the wanganui MCC members that give up thier time and money to keep it going, that is why they get to choose how its run,

and the fact that it has kept been run for so long shows thier comitment,


I do agree with what you have said here- BUT I also agree with what a lot of others have said over time ie

I have written to them and got NO reply

I have emailed them and got NO reply etc etc etc

I know it takes a club to make a race - as I know it takes a racer/rider to make a club:Oi:

I understand and FULLY appreciate what all the Day workers of the Club do for US ( ME X ) the riders:2thumbsup And most of them would know how I feal about what they do for us:2thumbsup

But SORRY, The Club is the on the FRONT line, and the powers that be, who'm manage this club, are open to out siders opinions and input, whether they like it or not, IT IS A PART OF JOB!

And now that we have the Internet, We can also do what we are now!

Arguing? Bitching? Fighting? Wanking? What ever:lol:

There are a lot of positives being said on here, that if people really do want change? Groth? that the market place also wants! and needs to grow! Then there is a shite load of info on this site alone, just to learn and grow.

I know I can say things, that come across as being very Direct/rude/Arrogant etc, NOTHING PERSONELL:2thumbsup I am just very loud and direct- who is also very passionate about our sport- Other wise I too could just Fuck Off :banana: because of what people keep telling me, Via web sites, Email, phone calls bla bla bla

And I also GIVE AWAY more than I take from it dude, just like a Club?

[scott411]

i agree with everything you said in the above post, i like you are passionate about racing bikes, we have slighty different area's we enjoy, but the sole of it is about the same,

i have learnt in my just under 22 years plus in this sport, their are very few right and wrong answers, only peoples opinions, and they are very hard prove which person is right most of the time,


Arguing? Bitching? Fighting? Wanking? What ever

i call it more informed discussion, i know it gets a bit heated but thats what happens when you talk about what you are passionate about,

as for the reference from crasher about the 250 proddy and 883's, they got culled when the classes died thier natural death, you are talking about taking away a class which is growing ,

been an interesting discussion today thats for sure

[Crasherfromwayback]

as for the reference from crasher about the 250 proddy and 883's, they got culled when the classes died thier natural death, you are talking about taking away a class which is growing ,

been an interesting discussion today thats for sure

I only mentioned that meaning I've been there both as a tar baby and a 'motard' racer over many years. I think the organizers need to remember it IS a road racing event after all. I think it's unfair for the road racing classes that the motards get a seperate track...and I've not spoken to a SINGLE person that has thought the off road section adds anything as a spectacle.

[jellywrestler]

With the pits in the railway yard (i'm assuming this is near the off road section) my understanding is the start finish was always in the same place as it is now, so unless there was only 1/2 a lap warm up to get to the dummy grid rather than 1-1/2 laps, you wouldn't be saving much


cancel BEARs as it just becoming another motard class anyway and run 3 races per class


with the pits in the yards there's 1 1/2 laps warm up.
what about combining bears and posties and having no cross entering bears and super motards. they onl accepted cross entering after lack of entries in bears. thanks for you input

[jellywrestler]

if the club wants to run a motard section, (and they obviously do) who are we to tell them no,

thier are alot of locals that seem to like it, i can think of 3 or 4 young guys from down their that ride motards, they do the work, they put the thing on, its up to them,

if someone from down the line rings me and tells me how to rung things at meeting i run, they get told the same thing, our meeting, our way, if you do not like it, don't come,


the whole point of this thread is to find out what people want so a cross section of views can be put to the wanganui club to try and make it a better meet. i have been to 42 cemetery circuits and have noticed a serious undertone recently towards the meeting recently. much of it is emotions and pig headedness. i would like to hear honest reasonable arguments for and agianst the way the meeting is run with a view to trying to sort out a format that is catering for the people who go there., both riders and spectators serioss undertones do nothing helpful whereas heres a chance to get varied opinions and why people have these opinions to ensure the survival of the meeting.

[Kickaha]

the whole point of this thread is to find out what people want so a cross section of views can be put to the wanganui club to try and make it a better meet. i have been to 42 cemetery circuits and have noticed a serious undertone recently towards the meeting recently. much of it is emotions and pig headedness. i would like to hear honest reasonable arguments for and against the way the meeting is run with a view to trying to sort out a format that is catering for the people who go there., both riders and spectators serious undertones do nothing helpful whereas heres a chance to get varied opinions and why people have these opinions to ensure the survival of the meeting.

Personally from a riders point of view I find it very poor value for money, when I first raced there it was in post classic, this meant two races for the day and I'm done, Sidecars was better as we got three

Now Greymouth which is my favourite street race I get three no matter what class I race in and can cross enter all for $50, I've raced their and done 11 races using two bikes, yes it is a lot more low key and race distance is shorter but it was a hell of a lot more fun than Wanganui

Yeah Wanganui has all the wank behind it with its history and it also has prize money, but I don't think as an event it's all that great, I've experiened long delays on the dummy grid with no notification of what was happening, I've seen competitors get to the dummy grid issued their grid number and then told they didn't qualify and couldn't race, last year there was the whole qualifying thing with WT

I also emailed the club after my first time racing with some of my concerns and wasn't even given the courtesy of a reply

[flipper69]

Hey Kick,

Wanganui is not about the wank factor it is definately about the tradition. It is still the #1 road race meeting as per spectator attendence over the last few years to attend to in NZ . With spectator volume at a high you also receive bike sales and accessory sales at a high thru the hipe and vibe of the meeting. From what i have seen spectators are doing there best to turn up to Boxing Day in there best new gear as well as their motorcycles being in the best presentation. I take my hat off to all the spectators as for with out them our racing is over.
These guys that we are bagging have one day to get it all right. I think we should give a little slack to them and thank them for their efforts that they have put in over the past few years.
Dont get me wrong! I do agree with what I think is the majority at the moment that the motard dirt section should be canned only due to the fact that i have been coming to Wangas for a while now and i dont think it is in with the tradition of the club to be running a part dirt section with this meeting. The club should be doing a survey similar to what I have done myself over the last two years with the crowd on hand to decide if they enjoy the extended lap times and repeat races put on by the motard brigade.
If the crowd are all for it then so am I,cause that at the end of the day we are there to put on a show.
All the best Kick to you and Dave for the last round of the nats.

Stacey Sellar
Team Viking LCR Racing

[sunhuntin]

o crap... you mean i was meant to CLEAN my bike before going to watch? oops.

[Brian d marge]

I pop in now and again to see whats happening ( and to check if a particular mod is gone ) , and I see some threads which get my blood a stirring.

Motards , um by nature its a new a growing sport and came from who is the better rider , road or dirt , ..so it should retain a it section ( is there problems with dirt getting on the race line??)

if not? then whats the problem ? The biggest problem as I see it is there is now money . there are about 5 or 10 riders who have flashed a bit of cash but how many people ACTUALLY earn a living from road racing in NZ .

If you do have talent ( and there are world class riders , theres a list a mile long who should be standing where Casy Stoner will stand the end of this year. So you go overseas , to get " noticed " and that i think is wrong , it should be like the MX scene where people look towards NZ for their next rider .

Anyway I digress , As a paying customer I want to experience the " glamor " of road racing and the missus wants to look round the shops , the boys want Junk food and a look at the bike ( trade stands , exhibitions etc , ever been to eg Phillip Island ?)

Not to stand in a windswept hell hole with a poor excuse of a hot dog stand in a dusty car park , or sharing a beer soaked curtain sider truck with drunken yobbos
watching the same five bikes going round in circles , Oh and I'm going to pay how much for this ??? no thank you .

My fix .

Drop the 1000 cc class ( NZ ers don't have the cash to run one of these anywhere near what it takes , even with sponsorship .:devil2: ,,in Superstock for maybe , but open ??? I don't think so )

600 cc class following FIM supersport rules combined with a cut off time ( ie if your bike is within 10% of the Qualifying time you can enter

Classics , ( graded class structure again with in a certain percentage of a qualifying time ( stops really slow riders causing problems )

Modards ( as per above, )

a Junior class , such as Gp 125 , Aprilla cup or EVEN buckets ( if they pulled their socks up presentation wise. I think buckets has A LOT going for it , but look at it from the spectators point of very poorly presented )

The problem with the above is that there needs to be a small step between each class so that as one becomes more serious , more professional , one graduates up the classes ( maybe 125 . 400 . 600 ??)

If you cant afford to run a bike and want to go racing , Join a club , My friends here support a bike , such as the Honda fire blade club , Tokyo , they all get together buy a bike all legal like , then meet to prep the bike , mod the bike once or twice a week , the cost is shared between 10 or 20 people .

If you don't agree with the above , the season is kicking off here , I am going to be attending the races , and can show you what I am talking about . ( a clear well supported structured system, )

So stop thinking about what YOU get out of it , and start thinking about what YOU can do for the others , for example the spectators , Does the team look well presented ? Professional ? or is it a few mates bazzin around on bikes ??

100 individuals get sod all done compared with one organized group .

Stephen

before anyone asks , Yes , and I can/will send you photos to back what I am saying .