Fitting wider tyres.

[GSVR]

I don't like the look of the skinny little 160 section tyre on my SV and was thinking of fitting a 180 or 190 as I can get these cheap.

Just wondering if the bike will have any handling issues and if so what might these be? Like straight line stability or trouble tipping in.

[yod]

troll

oops...did I say that? :whistle:



edit: you're right tho...every time you pass me (which is a LOT) I always find myself thinking, well, he might be passing me all the time but at least my rear tyre is wider than his....

[GSVR]

troll

oops...did I say that? :whistle:



edit: you're right tho...every time you pass me (which is a LOT) I always find myself thinking, well, he might be passing me all the time but at least my rear tyre is wider than his....


Seriously Jono if you do this again I'll be forced to red bling you. This is a serious question.

[James Deuce]

Where does one start?

Rim width, swing arm clearance, chain clearance, precipitous tyre profile from squeezing a fat tyre onto a skinny rim, blah, blah.

I wouldn't do it. You'd turn a sweet handling bike into a pig, but most people say I don't know shit and you should do it anyway.

[Cajun]

well i have heard that people are fitting wide tires to sv650s and helping them get more grip and faster laptimes.

On any of the effects be hard until you really try, alot depends on tire profile, and bike setup could help fix this issues.

[Badjelly]

I wouldn't do it. You'd turn a sweet handling bike into a pig, but most people say I don't know shit and you should do it anyway.

Jim2 doesn't know shit and you should do it anyway.

But I wouldn't.

[onearmedbandit]

I know this is a troll...but

If we look at the lean angles acheived by 125cc race bikes, then you could argue that we should all be running around on smaller width tyres. However a 125 puts out say in full race trim less than 100hp (I don't know exactly) so the contact patch required to handle that power (and torque) doesn't need to be very large, at least not as large as say a bike that puts out 160hp and oodles more torque than the 125. Also increasing the width of the rear tyre will have some negative handling effects, caused by axis of the bike rolling around the tyre causing more offset over a bike with a rear tyre that is closer in size to the front tyre. Another factor in bikes like litre bikes going to 190's is marketing.

So in this example unless putting down the power is an issue then no there is no sense in going to a tyre like a 190.

[Jimmy B]

So in this example unless putting down the power is an issue then no there is no sense in going to a tyre like a 190.

+1

What OAB said, plus there is some merit to the theory that a wider tyre than recommended may deform the profile and contact patch resulting in less than optimal performance.

[vifferman]

... but most people say I don't know shit and you should do it anyway.
I'd say, "That there Jim2 certainly knows what he's talking about, and you should listen to him".
But.... I guess you'll go ahead and do it anyway.

BTW:
Tyre width is in no way related to penis size or manliness.
A wider tyre will not necessarily give you more grip. The pressure on the tread contact area is the same, so making the tyre wider won't necessarily produce a larger contact patch, unless you make the bike heavier.
Eat more pies.
OTOH:
Squeezing a larger width tyre on a rim that's not intended to have a tyre of that width will probably change the profile.
And the shape of the contact patch.
But.... like Mr Jim2 ... I will say most people say I don't know shit and you should do it anyway.

[Grub]

Don't do it unless you really know what you're doing! Put only what the book/Suzuki say you should - and nothing else. If you change it because fatter looks cool your spunk will get all over the tyre and make it slippery.

Suzuki have super-computers, Suzuki have thousands of engineers, Suzuki have hundereds of test riders, Suzuki owns its own circuit for testing stuff.

Suzuki specified a tyre for your bike because that's the way it works best. Nobody on KB or a bike shop knows better than them.

[vifferman]

D Nobody on KB or a bike shop knows better than them.
:nono:
Everybody on KB knows better'n Suzuki.



Except for Jim2, of course. <_<

[Pwalo]

I don't like the look of the skinny little 160 section tyre on my SV and was thinking of fitting a 180 or 190 as I can get these cheap.

Just wondering if the bike will have any handling issues and if so what might these be? Like straight line stability or trouble tipping in.

Do it, and tell us all how you get on.

[Sully60]

I shouldn't even reply as I do think this is a troll Garry.(I really think you do know better)
But the standard rim on the SV is slightly too narrow even for the most 160 section tyres anyway, ever wondered why there's always a chicken strip you can't get rid of? Jason Nairn uses a 4.5 rim from a TZ on his SV and that gives the 160 a really nice crown profile.

If you want to run a wider tyre run a wider rim. The Honda CBR600 rim is an easy conversion and you can 180s on those.

I really want to try a 150/60-17 Super Corsa on mine, if I can still get one, they fit really nicely on the Suzuki rim without compromising side grip.

[Finn]

Anything thing less than a 240 rear is childs play.

[johnsv650]

maybe if you read the manufactors recommedations on the tyre size /rim fitment, it might well be outside there recommedation and there permitted and they just might pick rider up on rule 10-1-2............
interesting.....

[johnsv650]

be a shame to lose a championship on something so clear in the rules......none would risk doing that would they ?

[Keystone19]

I've been running a cbr600 rear rim and 160 tyres on my sv. Works well with the wider rim and none of those chicken strips to be seen.

[GSVR]

I've been running a cbr600 rear rim and 160 tyres on my sv. Works well with the wider rim and none of those chicken strips to be seen.

Maybe people should stop veiwing those as chicken strips and more safety strips as the fact you still have some tyre left to lean onto to my mind is reassuring. And yes as soon as you fit the same tyre to a wider rim the profile flattens and they get smaller (safety margin strips).

[onearmedbandit]

But surely when racing you want to use all the lean available when practical?

[Sully60]

Maybe people should stop veiwing those as chicken strips and more safety strips as the fact you still have some tyre left to lean onto to my mind is reassuring. And yes as soon as you fit the same tyre to a wider rim the profile flattens and they get smaller (safety margin strips).

In this particular instance you don't have this rubber available to you anytime!
The tyre's slight constriction on the narrow Suzuki rim means this part of the tyre is effectively vertical and you get no benefit from it what so ever. So you actually have less rubber on the road at lean angles than you should. No chicken strips on race bike tyres (and hard road riders) generally means the correct size tyre is fitted and is deforming and working as it should.

So they aren't a sign of a safety strip at all they're a sign that Suzuki still have huge reserves left in the spare parts bin and when you buy a "budget" model this is the equipment you will get.

[GSVR]

That's the point! In this particular instance you don't have this rubber available to you anytime!
The tyre's slight constriction on the narrow Suzuki rim means this part of the tyre is effectively vertical and you get no benefit from it what so ever. So you actually have less rubber on the road at lean angles than you should.

So they aren't a sign of a safety strip at all they're a sign that Suzuki still have huge reserves left in the spare parts bin and when you buy a "budget" model this is the equipment you will get.

And this is your excuse for having chicken strips? :rofl: I bet you mine are bigger than yours.

Its ok this thread is starting to go off topic.

When I asked a 600 rider why he was fitting 190s to his bike the answer was because he was getting off the edge of a 180. That was last year and trends may have changed.

[yod]

Seriously Jono if you do this again I'll be forced to red bling you. This is a serious question.

:o

sorry...promise i'll be good

[Sully60]

And this is your excuse for having chicken strips? :rofl: I bet you mine are bigger than yours.




I only do poultry in small servings so big chicken strips aren't very appealing. Anyway haven't you seen what all the animal rights activists publish about chicken farming and growth hormones! :sick:


When I asked a 600 rider why he was fitting 190s to his bike the answer was because he was getting off the edge of a 180. That was last year and trends may have changed.

You'll find on the bikes that run 5.5 an 6 inch rims this is a valid choice because the profiles are designed desined to work with these size rims. In our case it's 160's or the highway pal, unless you do the wider rim thing.

[GSVR]

be a shame to lose a championship on something so clear in the rules......none would risk doing that would they ?

Almost as bad as having the wrong colour background on your number boards.

The rot has set in...

I know what you mean but the majority concensus here is that it would be a dissadvantage. And the rule your quoting seems more like a miss quote to me.

[Shaun]

Almost as bad as having the wrong colour background on your number boards.

The rot has set in...

I know what you mean but the majority concensus here is that it would be a dissadvantage. And the rule your quoting seems more like a miss quote to me.



10-1-2 At all times the onus is on the competitor to ensure that their equipment is being operated
within the specifications and limits (if any) imposed by the equipment manufacturer or
supplier.


SO the F3 Rules allow you to change wheels! So the above rule, would apply still, to the wheel fitted to the bike! ie CBR600 5'' wheel, has a recomended tyre size of Bla Bla Bla


Simple really if you read and understand the rules

[FROSTY]

dude if you want to ask why not talk to people who have "been there done that"
Have a look at www.svrider.com (http://www.svrider.com)
the race guys there are using 180s on cibber rimms etc

[GSVR]

10-1-2 At all times the onus is on the competitor to ensure that their equipment is being operated
within the specifications and limits (if any) imposed by the equipment manufacturer or
supplier.


SO the F3 Rules allow you to change wheels! So the above rule, would apply still, to the wheel fitted to the bike! ie CBR600 5'' wheel, has a recomended tyre size of Bla Bla Bla


Simple really if you read and understand the rules

Thing is with rules worded like that everyones got a different idea on what it actually says or means.

Whats the recomended tyre size for a 4.5" rim?

[GSVR]

dude if you want to ask why not talk to people who have "been there done that"
Have a look at www.svrider.com (http://www.svrider.com)
the race guys there are using 180s on cibber rimms etc

These people have "been there done that" and liked the results apparently. I find it interesting as everyone else I've spoken with before this has wanted to move in the oppersite direction.

JohnsSV may be able to fill us in on the whole story?

[White trash]

Just to throw a cat amongst the pigeons, but I seem to remember a young chap with a 180 or 190 rear tyre fitted to the rear of his SV650 pro twins bike earlier this year.

[GSVR]

Just to throw a cat amongst the pigeons, but I seem to remember a young chap with a 180 or 190 rear tyre fitted to the rear of his SV650 pro twins bike earlier this year.

Jimmy you psychic. I was hopeing no one would get what I was talking about for a few days yet!

Apparently its just not cricket. Sour grapes and all that.

[AllanB]

Just go to a 170 - there should be clearance with this - its an available size - the GS1200ss model came out with a 170 rear. No idea why as the rim is the same as Bandit that runs a 180, and lots of 1200ss end up with 180's. The 170 is possibly to quicken the turn a bit.
They are a bit dearer ($10 or so) than the popular and pretty much standard 180.

Nothing wrong with a bit of a chicken strip, but not as much fun as riding a landing strip :bleh:

[HDTboy]

I wouldn't do it. You'd turn a sweet handling bike into a pig, but most people say I don't know shit and you should do it anyway.
Jim2 doesn't know shit and you should try it anyway

Nobody on KB or a bike shop knows better than them. Not even me.
Neither does Grub, he can't even wave White flags on the right lap

Just to throw a cat amongst the pigeons, but I seem to remember a young chap by the name of Karl Morgan or something with a 180 or 190 rear tyre fitted to the rear of his SV650 pro twins bike.

Has anyone actually beat Karl in that class this year.............?

Here's a man who's thinking.
Glen Williams is running a 180 I believe, and I know that Karl Morgan is running a 190.
Guess which SV's are leading in their classes. If you can get them cheap, why wouldn't you throw it on and try it?

[johnsv650]

in f3 you can change wheel/rim sizes and then get your 180-190 tyre on the correct tyre rim fitment.
But in pro twins you must use the homologated rim and therefor the correct tyre for that rim as homologated is a 160 tyre even have correct part number 65110-17g00 for those who are building protwins up........
if someone is using a 190 tyre on a 4.5 rim they should have read rule book and dunlpos tyre fitment guide as per sticker on every tyre sold .....
did someone say a protwin rider had a 190 rear and all the others had 160's, isn't there a protest in that class regarding two items..........

[GSVR]

Here's a man who's thinking.
Glen Williams is running a 180 I believe, and I know that Karl Morgan is running a 190.
Guess which SV's are leading in their classes. If you can get them cheap, why wouldn't you throw it on and try it?

Yes but Glens running his on the right sized rim. And I haven't asked him if he's convinced with it.

Never met Karl but he sounds like he's a lateral thinker or has some good people helping him out.

[FROSTY]

I rode Glens bike and was really impressed by how well it handled.
But a factory SVrim wont take a 180 so it must have a cibber rim

[HornetBoy]

Im pretty sure sv's run the same size width rear rim as late model katana 600 and 750's. (4.5")

if this is the case then you can get a 180 on their but the bigger you go the less tread is in contact with the road and this means more chance of hydroplaning in the wet or loose gravel.

also bad wear angles as the middle is pinched to fit on a smaller rim width than oem, so i could only assume this would hinder turn in stability.

but what do i know :stupid:

:niceone:

[n0regret5]

wide tyres add street cred..you'd be partway to a mean streetfighter! as for the handling issue..with something putting out less than 100bhp at the wheel, its more likely to fuck your handling in and out of corners, due to the effects it'd have on your steering geometry (bikes gonna be on an odd angle when you put your knee down)..

but i say if you can find a way to do it, and affordably, go for it. just make sure you get REAL used to it before taking the old girl back onto a track!!

[RidingHard]

IMHO as "phat" as big dog tyres look on the rear (and they look pritty damn cool), and although it may fit, stick with manufacturers guidelines or you may be pissing away your money. I want to fit a bigger rear to my ZX6R so I'm looking into this at the mo too.....

So do it and tell us what happens! :whistle:

[Shaun]

in f3 you can change wheel/rim sizes and then get your 180-190 tyre on the correct tyre rim fitment.
But in pro twins you must use the homologated rim and therefor the correct tyre for that rim as homologated is a 160 tyre even have correct part number 65110-17g00 for those who are building protwins up........
if someone is using a 190 tyre on a 4.5 rim they should have read rule book and dunlpos tyre fitment guide as per sticker on every tyre sold .....
did someone say a protwin rider had a 190 rear and all the others had 160's, isn't there a protest in that class regarding two items..........



If there is a protest in this calss, based on a rider using a non reccomended! Size tyre- I would personelly call the person who laid the protest a real WANKER

What a pathetic thing to protest about

[White trash]

Same could be said about whoever protested Bruce Ansteys use of a carbon front mudguard two seasons ago.

Or a rider riding without a front guard fitted.

[Shaun]

Same could be said about whoever protested Bruce Ansteys use of a carbon front mudguard two seasons ago.

Or a rider riding without a front guard fitted.



Where did that happen man?

[FROSTY]

If there is a protest in this calss, based on a rider using a non reccomended! Size tyre- I would personelly call the person who laid the protest a real WANKER

What a pathetic thing to protest about
Shaun --I think whats being "hinted" at is that the factory SV650 rim barely fits a 160 -therefor how could a 180 possibly fit.
Or on plain english-pro twins rules say you must run FACTORY rims
If someone has a 180 tyre the rim cannot be factory

[GSVR]

On the subject of fitting the Supersport tyres to SV rims I believe this to be a good thing if its not going to be turned into an issue and it actually works well.

Its good for Supersport riders as they have a market to onsell their slightly worn tyres to. And its great for racers on lower budgets as they can have good rubber without paying high prices.

My experience when buying new tyres has been that the 180s are cheaper than the 160s probably becuase they are produced in much larger numbers.

As for the rider that started doing it. possibly cost and availability may have been the initial reason. Maybe a bike will be better with a 160 but riders should be free to make up their own minds as to what they wish to run.
Unless of course theres a safety issue here.

[Grub]

Neither does Grub, he can't even wave White flags on the right lap

One flag, one lap, two bikes, 6 months ago - get over it. Apart from that, it was the lap couter person that called the flag, I just wave the thing.

[Shaun]

On the subject of fitting the Supersport tyres to SV rims I believe this to be a good thing if its not going to be turned into an issue and it actually works well.

Its good for Supersport riders as they have a market to onsell their slightly worn tyres to. And its great for racers on lower budgets as they can have good rubber without paying high prices.

My experience when buying new tyres has been that the 180s are cheaper than the 160s probably becuase they are produced in much larger numbers.

As for the rider that started doing it. possibly cost and availability may have been the initial reason. Maybe a bike will be better with a 160 but riders should be free to make up their own minds as to what they wish to run.
Unless of course theres a safety issue here.


Agree with all you say here mate

[R1madness]

Hmmmmm lets really start a debate here.

The new dunlop slicks being used in the Production Superbike class are not the recommended tyre size for a GSXR1000 (or any other brand 1000 for that matter) therefor according to the arguments above everyone running them should be protested. Leaving only those riding on pirellis or metzelers elegable to win the championship.

What a crock. What next?, you can only run the oil specified in the manual. Or the specified brand, model and size of origonal fitment tyre????? Come on!!!!

[White trash]

Actually, truth be known, none of the rear tyres ANYONE are using in Superbike or Supersport are factory fitted sizes as even the Pirellis are 55 profile. Standard fitment is 190/50 X 17 for all road going thous, 180/55 for most 600s.

She's a sticky situation when you get to this comprehension of the rules

[Shaun]

Actually, truth be known, none of the rear tyres ANYONE are using in Superbike or Supersport are factory fitted sizes as even the Pirellis are 55 profile. Standard fitment is 190/50 X 17 for all road going thous, 180/55 for most 600s.

She's a sticky situation when you get to this comprehension of the rules



HEY, who what where when, was Bruce A protested over the front guard

[Shaun]

MODS OR SOME ONE HELP PLEASE


Can a link be posted to the thread that was about a few months back, RE Tyre size for the 150 class being raced in the Sth Island


The way the rules are written now! and then! are CRAP, this current subject, and the issue over the 150 tyres PROVE THIS

[Sully60]

MODS OR SOME ONE HELP PLEASE


Can a link be posted to the thread that was about a few months back, RE Tyre size for the 150 class being raced in the Sth Island


The way the rules are written now! and then! are CRAP, this current subject, and the issue over the 150 tyres PROVE THIS

I've been looking for that thread and had no luck but I found these:

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=53647&highlight=streetstock

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=53421&highlight=streetstock

[oyster]

The official MNZ line re the Streetstock rules was that they were legally obliged to prohibit any tyres being used outside the manufacturer's recommendations. Of course we asked why this didn't apply to all the other classes, and in fact even with the FIM etc but we got no reply.

As a result we we have the sitiuation where the closest tyre to the MOTORCYCLE maunfacturer's specification we CAN"T use, and the tyre size MNZ tested and approved is actually illegal for road use, as it breaches LTSA rules (too small)

So if MNZ were in any way consistent with last years determination on Streetstock (note SS and Pro Twin are very similar format Sports Production classes) then only tyres specified by the Motorcycle and / or Tyre manufacturer can be used.

I feel the WANKER previously referred too was only acting with consistency as directed by the MNZ ruling lst year. I think that's fair (not wanking)

[FROSTY]

That ALL the mnz rules need to be reviewed and common sense applied to them ?
I'd also suggest that the class rules need to be reviewed by indipendant motorcycle engineers who DO NOT have personal reasons to want the class rules one way or another.
Perhaps by a European/American or even Australian organisation.

Further I just cannot understand why we need to reinvent the wheel.
Using Pro twins as the example. There has been a very successful pro twins series run in the UK for the past 5 or so years.The rules have been tried and the wrinkles worked out.
In the US I can say the same thing with their mini twins series.
I prefer the poms rules only because the yanks are more for open slather with engine work.

[Shaun]

The official MNZ line re the Streetstock rules was that they were legally obliged to prohibit any tyres being used outside the manufacturer's recommendations. Of course we asked why this didn't apply to all the other classes, and in fact even with the FIM etc but we got no reply.

As a result we we have the sitiuation where the closest tyre to the MOTORCYCLE maunfacturer's specification we CAN"T use, and the tyre size MNZ tested and approved is actually illegal for road use, as it breaches LTSA rules (too small)

So if MNZ were in any way consistent with last years determination on Streetstock (note SS and Pro Twin are very similar format Sports Production classes) then only tyres specified by the Motorcycle and / or Tyre manufacturer can be used.

I feel the WANKER previously referred too was only acting with consistency as directed by the MNZ ruling lst year. I think that's fair (not wanking)


Thanks for this post Oyster, and to your above comment, fair enough and well said, apologies the the person who put in the protest as an example to MNZ


DOES THIS CASE NOT PROVE WE NEED A FULL TIME RIDERS REP TO MANAGE OUR SPORT PROFESSIONALLY, Something MNZ cannot and does NOT DO!

[Goblin]

That ALL the mnz rules need to be reviewed and common sense applied to them ?
I'd also suggest that the class rules need to be reviewed by indipendant motorcycle engineers who DO NOT have personal reasons to want the class rules one way or another.
Perhaps by a European/American or even Australian organisation.



Thanks for this post Oyster, and to your above comment, fair enough and well said, apologies the the person who put in the protest as an example to MNZ


DOES THIS CASE NOT PROVE WE NEED A FULL TIME RIDERS REP TO MANAGE OUR SPORT PROFESSIONALLY, Something MNZ cannot and does NOT DO!As long as current CEO of MNZ is at the helm, nothing will change.

[Shaun]

Can some one please find and copy and post on here the rule in MNZ rule book that says- I cannot find it!

Tyre size may only be fitted to what the manufacturer of the wheel says

ie 5.5" wheel 180 or 190 or what ever

Some one please do a good search, think a bit criptick if required

[Toaster]

I don't like the look of the skinny little 160 section tyre on my SV and was thinking of fitting a 180 or 190 as I can get these cheap.

Just wondering if the bike will have any handling issues and if so what might these be? Like straight line stability or trouble tipping in.

I've got a 250 on mine and its beautiful for cornering.

[Shaun]

As long as current CEO of MNZ is at the helm, nothing will change.


AGREED! Respected him so much as rider years ago, but as OUR PAID CEO, he is useless

[GSVR]

HEY, who what where when, was Bruce A protested over the front guard

2005 Nationals at Ruapuna apparently.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=185016&postcount=28

I only knew it was over some carbon somewhere on the bike.

[Deano]

DOES THIS CASE NOT PROVE WE NEED A FULL TIME RIDERS REP TO MANAGE OUR SPORT PROFESSIONALLY, Something MNZ cannot and does NOT DO!


Agree fully. MNZ are a law unto themselves. They do bugger all by way of 'fostering' motorcycling events. They don't enforce their rules or reply when asked tricky questions.

But this is good ol'e NZ, banana republic of the pacific. She'll be right mate, no worries.

[Shaun]

2005 Nationals at Ruapuna apparently.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=185016&postcount=28

I only knew it was over some carbon somewhere on the bike.




Wow, I had noticed some bits on his 1000 that TECH did not fit our rules. so I gave them a brake system etc to make sure he could not be protested, but never noticed the front guard

[Tony.OK]

Can some one please find and copy and post on here the rule in MNZ rule book that says- I cannot find it!

Tyre size may only be fitted to what the manufacturer of the wheel says

ie 5.5" wheel 180 or 190 or what ever

Some one please do a good search, think a bit criptick if required

All I could find........
ProTwins:
4. Tyres
Tyres V or Z rating must be used. Only tyres on general sale to the public in
New Zealand as road legal fitment will be permitted. For all events other than
endurance races only one set of tyres per meeting will be allowed for races
counting towards the MNZ championship.

F3:
5-6-1 Wheels, brakes and tyres are optional. Racing tyres and tyre warmers are permitted.

Steetstock:
22-12-10 Tyres
Gazetted Tyres for 150cc Street Stock Class.
Tyre sizes, 80/90, 90/90, 95/70, 90/65, 100/80, 110/90, 120/80 x 18 TT900, 110/80 x 17
Applies to 150cc Street Stock only.
1. The choice of tyre is optional, either a slick or a Dot/European approved road
legal tyre on sale to the public. (No grooved slicks, modifications or treatments
allowed to tyres)
2. All tyres fitted must be mounted on a corresponding rim as per the tyre
manufacturers recommendations of rim to tyre specifications. These shall be
gazetted on the MNZ website and up dated as necessary.

Dunno if that helps:rolleyes:

[johnsv650]

hi shawn,
maybe i'm the guy you called a wanker,down
here in south island, the problems with streetstock is mnz rules are rim size = tyre width, so some of us understand the way of thinking on that, some don't ,
but once they make a stand.......
rim width = tyre width.........

so if someone had a 4.5 rim and a 190 tyre......outside suzuki homologation and outside dunlop recommendations.........

rule 10-1-2, must be within manufacturers specilfications and permitted limits, and a 190 tyre has fitment from 5.5-6.0 .
a 160 tyre ca fit 4.5-5.5 in dunlops catalogue......

protwin says inless mentioned below it must remain as homologated...... you go to tyres, it doesn't say a tyre size bigger or smaller so it must be as homologated....homologated size even has a part no and states size of 160
can you see how some south islanders might see the rules .
the class will only get bigger ..........

[Goblin]

AGREED! Respected him so much as rider years ago, but as OUR PAID CEO, he is uselessNew career option for you?? :whistle:

[svr]

hi shawn,
maybe i'm the guy you called a wanker,down
here in south island, the problems with streetstock is mnz rules are rim size = tyre width, so some of us understand the way of thinking on that, some don't ,
but once they make a stand.......
rim width = tyre width.........

so if someone had a 4.5 rim and a 190 tyre......outside suzuki homologation and outside dunlop recommendations.........

rule 10-1-2, must be within manufacturers specilfications and permitted limits, and a 190 tyre has fitment from 5.5-6.0 .
a 160 tyre ca fit 4.5-5.5 in dunlops catalogue......

protwin says inless mentioned below it must remain as homologated...... you go to tyres, it doesn't say a tyre size bigger or smaller so it must be as homologated....homologated size even has a part no and states size of 160
can you see how some south islanders might see the rules .
the class will only get bigger ..........

My understanding is that Morgan used 190's because he couldn't get the new 160 Pirelli's (few could) which are the poop, they tell me. Anyway, there is no advantage to a bigger tyre - the narrow rim pulls it in creating a sub-optimum profile for sidegrip - you just spin more tyre than you're using which is a bad deal on a little gutless bike.
How could someone deny him the championship for that technicalty?

[FROSTY]

Hey a rule is a rule. right or wrong If the rule was clear and unambiguous then thats what protests are for.

[GSVR]

Hey a rule is a rule. right or wrong If the rule was clear and unambiguous then thats what protests are for.

Firstly better quote the rule as written:

10-1-2 At all times the onus is on the competitor to ensure that their equipment is being operated within the specifications and limits (if any) imposed by the eqiupment manufacturer or supplier.

Remember this is in "Motorcycles Technical" which applies to everyone.

What happens when you get a hot cam grind in F3? Surely your bikes now out the the manufacturers specifications.

What if someone steps up to the mark and says they supplied a rider with 190 tyres and didn't impose any restrictions on how they where used.

My personal view on why a certain rider was so much faster than the opposition was he can ride very well and he's had a very good engine tuner thats made a very quick engine within the ProTwin rules that allow for considerable tuning.

[svr]

Geez Frosty we'll make a traffic cop outta ya yet! Show us ya whistle. Surely rules are to stop people having an unfair advantage - Morgan had no tyre advantage - he RODE FASTER. ALOT.
Side point - is tyre availability (= manufacturer allocation) an important issue in classes like Protwins? Its just not fair on lazy broke bastards like me who expect to buy tyres the last payday before a race...

[GSVR]

Geez Frosty we'll make a traffic cop outta ya yet! Show us ya whistle. Surely rules are to stop people having an unfair advantage - Morgan had no tyre advantage - he RODE FASTER. ALOT.
Side point - is tyre availability (= manufacturer allocation) an important issue in classes like Protwins? Its just not fair on lazy broke bastards like me who expect to buy tyres the last payday before a race...

Wouldn't it be great if MNZ and Pirelli did a deal and supplied everyone with a cheap control tyre. The class could be called "The Pirelli ProTwins". Pirelli would make a good profit with a captive market and get great advertising.

And in theory the racing would be closer with everyone on the same rubber.

[svr]

Sounds good Garry but I suspect someone would put a 160 on the front or run non-homologated valve caps or something and still get there arse protested.

[AllanB]

Pussy - get one of these 360's on that rim (the narrow rim may actually pull the tyre into something resembling a curved shape).

[FROSTY]

shit sometimes I hate this way of communicating.
DRIP GREAT GOBS OF SARCASM-
" If the rule was clear and unambiguous then thats what protests are for"

This is THE perfect example about rules being badly written.
Instead of --10-1-2 At all times the onus is on the competitor to ensure that their equipment is being operated within the specifications and limits (if any) imposed by the eqiupment manufacturer or supplier.

Why Not simply actually ASK what tyre size all the pro twins bikes are SOPOSED to run and make that the rule.
SAY---- Pro Twins supplimentary
All pro twins bikes must use 120/70/17 front tyres which must be DOT tyres
All Pro twins bikes must use either 150/50/17 or 160/50/17 rear tyres which must be dot aproved tyres.

[johnsv650]

My understanding is that Morgan used 190's because he couldn't get the new 160 Pirelli's (few could) which are the poop, they tell me. Anyway, there is no advantage to a bigger tyre - the narrow rim pulls it in creating a sub-optimum profile for sidegrip - you just spin more tyre than you're using which is a bad deal on a little gutless bike.
How could someone deny him the championship for that technicalty?

what a load of shit, there were many dunlops in stock and after ruapuna he went to dunlop and got 2 160 rears but never put them on, some people talk shit and were surposed to believe them hes a class rider, but as a rule reader and tyre stocks he is ............. well not as good as his riding..

[Shaun]

what a load of shit, there were many dunlops in stock and after ruapuna he went to dunlop and got 2 160 rears but never put them on, some people talk shit and were surposed to believe them hes a class rider, but as a rule reader and tyre stocks he is ............. well not as good as his riding..



OK THEN ALL ( "US") OLD BASTARDS ON HERE HAVING OUR SAY

1) How many of you, knew to look in Motorcycle technical for rules concerning the class?

2) I Bet 99.9% of ya, just read the RULES ONLY for the class ( AS IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN WRITTEN)

3) ie, that is how someone paid someone to fit the wrong illegal cam/s- mistakes, and interpretations-

4) It seems it is all about having a go at a young 20 year old, who has come back to the racing scene after many years of illness and stuff, has done an awsome job out there, and what is the point of protesting over such a pathetic rule?

5) Or is the protest thing really about a huge hidden JEALOUS FACTOR

BLOODY WELL DONE ON YOUR CHAMPIONSHIP CARL MORGAN, YOU EARNED IT MATE- I THINK:clap:

[GSVR]

what a load of shit, there were many dunlops in stock and after ruapuna he went to dunlop and got 2 160 rears but never put them on, some people talk shit and were surposed to believe them hes a class rider, but as a rule reader and tyre stocks he is ............. well not as good as his riding..

Seems as a rule reader your the same. Started a thread about it!!!

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=61218


Sorry mate I'm not really trying to have a go at you becuase I'm always getting the rules wrong myself. Infact I brought a bike that isn't on the homogated list and has all this extra emission stuff on it that I'm sure the rules wont let me remove...

Just let it go... Becuase the class is just getting going theres sure to be a few glitchs. I'm hope any confussion in the rules will be addressed.

Atleast we don't have to deal with the F3 rules anymore which I think are a complete unupdated mess.

[FROSTY]

But isn't it a bit like the cops with the "anti smacking" law ?
You know the laws/rules are a total mess and basicly WRONG.
You use whatever means you have available to get the laws/rules changed.
It seems that the only way to highlight issues is for there to be public outcry. -arrest/protest a "good kiwi bloke" for breaking the law/rule.

[johnsv650]

karl has been riding awesome,
better than anyone in the class no doubt, could he have fitted the same tyres as everyone in the class after ruapuna, he got two sets from dunlop but didn't fit them.... why risk it ????

[Shaun]

karl has been riding awesome,
better than anyone in the class no doubt, could he have fitted the same tyres as everyone in the class after ruapuna, he got two sets from dunlop but didn't fit them.... why risk it ????




Give it a rest man! He is not even on this web site to defend himself, or speak up

Good luck with your racing in the future

[roogazza]

Sounds good Garry but I suspect someone would put a 160 on the front or run non-homologated valve caps or something and still get there arse protested.

Do they really protest tyre size ? !!!! Larger tyres use to be quite common in production racing mainly to gain clearance. ( Safety, you'd call it nowdays. )
I can recall Randy Mamola rocking up to a 410 race at Ruapuna with a rear tyre on the front , now that was really out there even then. Gaz.

[svr]

what a load of shit, there were many dunlops in stock and after ruapuna he went to dunlop and got 2 160 rears but never put them on, some people talk shit and were surposed to believe them hes a class rider, but as a rule reader and tyre stocks he is ............. well not as good as his riding..

Thanks John. I didnt say there were no Dunlop 160's available, I said there were no Pirelli 160's in stock (I couldnt get one either so I used an old Metzeler). Anyway SV's (& ER's too ?) are homolgated with 60 section front tyres and everyone runs 70's, so no-one should get any points, right? Its not yacht racing or F1. Give it a rest and tip yer hat to KM.

[Deano]

KM was doing 1.14 or 1.15s around Manfeild at the Nats while I was there - on a pro twin spec bike....I'll tip my hat to the guy !!

[johnsv650]

Thanks John. I didnt say there were no Dunlop 160's available, I said there were no Pirelli 160's in stock (I couldnt get one either so I used an old Metzeler). Anyway SV's (& ER's too ?) are homolgated with 60 section front tyres and everyone runs 70's, so no-one should get any points, right? Its not yacht racing or F1. Give it a rest and tip yer hat to KM.


hi,
have told him is riding awesome....personally.....
he is sponsored by dunlop, so why would he want perelli's ?
its finished now............