Another "My bikes got a problem" Thread

[EJK]

Yep, I got a call from the Colemans Suzuki this morning.

Where do I start...

I thought the bike only had a problem with the carb but it turned out to be something more serious...

OK, colemans called me and told me about the problems:

Messed up cylinder head (dunno about that)
Low compression ratio. Got a leak or something...
something else... I forgot

I'll edit the list when I get the full details.


So its the engine which as the problem and it'll be expesive to fix

OK, since this is another of "Fuck! Another problem! I need help from KBers!" thread, I'll need some suggestions...

So far I thought of

Selling the bike as it is on Trademe (like this (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Sports/auction-143070450.htm?p=12))
get a new engine
fix it from Colemans ($900, I don't think so tho)
and thats it


Hmph! :(

[Ragingrob]

Doesn't sound too good there EJ! Hmmm selling it as is you definitely wouldn't get much for it huh, maybe check out any wrecked FXRs for engine parts ie just get a new cylinder head. Surely it's not hard for Colemans to find the leak and chuck some sealer on it?

[EJK]

I was thinking..... yeah....

So far my best idea is to get a new engine from somewhere...

[fireball]

i hate to say it but.....

I TOLD YOU SO!!!!!!

best option EJ is either get a new engine or (if its insured and rideable) crash it and claim it.... :whistle:

[FROSTY]

EJ--dude its a lil single cylinder suzuki FFS.
Unless some cowboy has run it outa oil I betcha the problem is its burnt a valve so has low compression.
Not exactly a hard or expensive job.

[EJK]

EJ--dude its a lil single cylinder suzuki FFS.
Unless some cowboy has run it outa oil I betcha the problem is its burnt a valve so has low compression.
Not exactly a hard or expensive job.

So.... Colemans were lying? lol

I'll get the full detail by tomorrow...
It was a short phone call so I couldn't really tell you guys what the problem is heh...

[Ixion]

No. A burnt (or tight) valve will cause low compression (wot they said); and could also be described as "a messed up cylinder head". Or, it could just be a blown head gasket. Or y' hamster's got an attack of the squitters. Mr Frosty's guess is more likely than most.

Ask Coleman's to be a bit more technically specific - especially about the "something else - I forgot". "Something else" covers quite a wide territory.

[EJK]

No. A burnt (or tight) valve will cause low compression (wot they said); and could also be described as "a messed up cylinder head". Or, it could just be a blown head gasket. Or y' hamster's got an attack of the squitters. Mr Frosty's guess is more likely than most.

Ask Coleman's to be a bit more technically specific - especially about the "something else - I forgot". "Something else" covers quite a wide territory.

I'm on it :cool:

[FROSTY]

sorry dude i'll rephrase-ok so a valves buggered it, needs rings (unlikely)
the top of the piston needs a cleanup and maybee the head is a touch munched---covers off all the likely senarios.
$900 for a shop sounds about right to azllow for an ass covering fix--as they have to do.
BUT--I bet moren half of the cost is labour---of course
No matter how flash its only a gn250 motor FFS
why not rip the donkey out -its a single so much easier to work on it on the bench--then haul the head off yaself.
that way you will definitely be up for the price of parts but labour can be reduced to the cost of repairing the valve damage etc -Not the strip/rebuild costs
--Shoer version--do it yaself

[EJK]

Someones gotta show me + teach me on those :)

Edit: Seriously I suck at these...

[Ragingrob]

Helped Stephen the other day take off cylinder and engine heads, wasn't too hard. The 2nd GN only took about 20mins to take both off. :). Do you have a manual? Because the bolts need to be taken off and put on in a special order.

[FilthyLuka]

if its like a gn250, you probably dont even need to take it out of the frame. I did a complete top end rebuild on mine with the engine still in the frame.

Whip the head off, have a squiz. If something is munched you should be able to see it...

Talk to colemans though, if its just a fooked head gasket then its not really a problem aslong as the head is straight...

[EJK]

Anyone know where I can find a Manual for the FXR?

[Kickaha]

No. A burnt (or tight) valve will cause low compression (wot they said); and could also be described as "a messed up cylinder head". Or, it could just be a blown head gasket. .

A leakdown test should show which of those options is most likely

[Ixion]

True. But with an FXR150 you could probably whip the head off in the time it took to do the test !

[FROSTY]

Realisticly Lets think--top gasket set -$75.00 1 set of rings $70.00
1 replacement valve $30. Valve seat cut X4 $120.00 (30.00 per seat)
Oil n filter $30.00
Unless it also need a piston the rest is labour

[kevfromcoro]

its all just nuts and bolts..EJ. have a go yourself.
sounds like a burntout valve to me.
not to expensive.

[EJK]

I got the problem here (From Colemans Suzuki)

Still Colemans are not too sure

Low compression
Leaking inlet Valve
and it was filled with water



Realisticly Lets think--top gasket set -$75.00 1 set of rings $70.00
1 replacement valve $30. Valve seat cut X4 $120.00 (30.00 per seat)
Oil n filter $30.00
Unless it also need a piston the rest is labour

I think I'll need a manual too

[FROSTY]

Full of WATER?? do what?
Leaking inlet valve is easy peasy to fix --not a major--might even get away with a valve seat recut

[EJK]

Full of WATER?? do what?
Leaking inlet valve is easy peasy to fix --not a major--might even get away with a valve seat recut

I don't know how the water got there...

Well, what parts do I need to fix? and where can I buy them? Same as above?

[FROSTY]

Depends on the state of the valve. If the valve seat can simply be recut then all you will need is a top gasket set. if not youll need a valve or two

[EJK]

Interests:
rebuilding broken bikes, riding my bike,and now racing my bike , racing go carts

I wish I have your talent lol

[FROSTY]

Mate truely you would be hard pressed to find a simpler bike to work on--except maybee a honda C50 lol

[EJK]

Right, first things first... I'll pick up the bike from the workshop tomorrow.

[Ixion]

Full of WATER ??? It's air cooled, isn't it ? If it IS wtaer cooled and the barrel's full of water you've blown a head gasket. And a leaking INLET valve is a rare thing. Possible, but they don't often burn. Might just be tight.

[EJK]

Full of WATER ???

Well one night it was raining hard and I found that the airbox was filled with water + Petrol (I still don't know how the petrol got into the airbox).

The airbox with petrol, GIJOE1313 knows better

[Maha]

I don't know how the water got there...



Wasn't me..........i dont so that anymore :whistle:

[Disco Dan]

Yep, I got a call from the Colemans Suzuki this morning.

Where do I start...

I thought the bike only had a problem with the carb but it turned out to be something more serious...

OK, colemans called me and told me about the problems:

Messed up cylinder head (dunno about that)
Low compression ratio. Got a leak or something...
something else... I forgot

I'll edit the list when I get the full details.


So its the engine which as the problem and it'll be expesive to fix

OK, since this is another of "Fuck! Another problem! I need help from KBers!" thread, I'll need some suggestions...

So far I thought of

Selling the bike as it is on Trademe (like this (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Sports/auction-143070450.htm?p=12))
get a new engine
fix it from Colemans ($900, I don't think so tho)
and thats it


Hmph! :(

Push the smegger off a cliff and use insurance money to buy a new one.

Tough luck dude, sometimes you have to cut your losses...

[EJK]

OK Thanks to FROSTY, now the bike is at a safe location :)

Now, It's the fixing part...

Opening the engine and getting the parts...

Where do I start?

[FROSTY]

So far--initial view

Ok 1 --bikes beeen beaten up a bit. -Ill get my painter to tidy the tank for ya.--You need to buy a brake n clutch lever,
2) batteries as flat as a pancake--has it always been this way?
3) Oil is waaay overfull
4) starter motor sounds like it wants to jump outa the side of the engine

[EJK]

1) Yeah, well i can mend the leaking tank. Brake lever? I think I bent and broke that when I binned it at Kawakawa :sweatdrop

2) Battry wasn't like that. Well I think the Colemans did not charge it that day...

3) COLEMANS!

4) I found a spark plug in my car. I don't know if its for the bike. Well, Colemans report says they've got a better ignition starting system. Maybe from a different model bike?

Btw, I don't know how to say thank you... I'm really (to be honest) shocked about all the help that I'm getting. I mean I feel guilty :sweatdrop

[Kickaha]

Well, what parts do I need to fix? and where can I buy them? Same as above?

PM Bren_chch once you work out what you want,he does parts for them and at a good price

[FROSTY]

WELL GUYS---howsabout a working bee this weekend--A rippin the fxr to bits party

[EJK]

Time and date?

[Nagash]

Would be keen to help but i'll be going on the Three day Easter rider.. hehehe. Had to rub that in.

[xwhatsit]

WELL GUYS---howsabout a working bee this weekend--A rippin the fxr to bits party

Where's the bike, mate? My girlfriend's turning 21 this weekend, but I'll do my level best to get there -- you're an absolute champ, I remember when my bike blew up outside your old work and you wanted to drop me and the bike from Takapuna to Mangere Bridge. Not sure how much help I'd be but maybe an extra hand could be useful :niceone:

[FROSTY]

well bikes at my work--henderson good light etc

[Mully]

well bikes at my work--henderson good light etc

Frosty, let me know day and time and I'll try to get there.

Don't know much, but keen to learn and it can't hurt to have an extra set of hands.

[Squiggles]

So far--initial view

Ok 1 --bikes beeen beaten up a bit. -Ill get my painter to tidy the tank for ya.--You need to buy a brake n clutch lever,
2) batteries as flat as a pancake--has it always been this way?
3) Oil is waaay overfull
4) starter motor sounds like it wants to jump outa the side of the engine

1. Might need sealing up at the rear where it meets the seat, that piece has some kneed-it on it at the moment

2: I've charged it before, if its flat now then its probably shot or it aint charging

3. Petrol mixed with oil by any chance? (wouldnt surprise me)

4. Yer, starter clutch fucked? http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=145487800 if the s-motors had it too might be the way to go

[EJK]

So, What time will be OK for Mr. FROSTY? Friday is a public holiday right?

I surely do not want to distrub a busy man

[motorbyclist]

No matter how flash its only a gn250 motor FFS

lol i remember squiggles saying the same thing

me: no way! it's even got dual overhead cams

him: what? what a waste!

[EJK]

Can't come this Saturday, my Manager called to work :(

P.S. I'd like the bike to be fixed by 20th April. It must be done by that time in fact... lol

[FROSTY]

Hey the bikes sitting here people --workshops open all day till 5.00pm
Ohh I figured out one "mystery" --the airbox was filling up from the gas leaking out of the back of the tank .

[EJK]

I can fix that

[deanohit]

I can fix that
Well if you can fix it what are you still doing here then bro? :lol:
Frosty said the sheds ready to go!

[EJK]

I have no transport nor tools heh

I'll need a help on opening the engine too

[FilthyLuka]

I have no transport nor tools heh

I'll need a help on opening the engine too

Im free today, does 3pm at frostys sound good to you? Take a bus :P I can take the head of and have a wee looksee even if you can't make it, but thats assuming you are okay with me working on your bike when you are not there.

[FilthyLuka]

executive summary: Its fucked

[FROSTY]

No NO mr Luka sir--managing directors version--its REALLY fucked.

[Ixion]

Meh. You young folk have no concept of what fucked is.

Bit of Araldite will seal the tank (acknowledgement to Mr WInja).

Bottom end will be OK, takes a lot more than that to fuck a good roller bearing crank.

Still got the unquantified cylinder head issue, but that can't be too bad. Worst case the cam bearings are toasted but it's amzing what can be done with a bearing scraper and some patience.

It'll be just fine, just needs a wee touch of Rangi.

[Kickaha]

Worst case the cam bearings are toasted but it's amzing what can be done with a bearing scraper and some patience.


Cams run directly in the head

[Ixion]

Pedantry. Read "cam bearing surfaces" then

[EJK]

Sigh... Did I buy a fucked bike in the first place?

[motorbyclist]

Sigh... Did I buy a fucked bike in the first place?

quite possibly - had i checked this thread earlier i would've gone for a look


if it's THAT bad it shouldn't be too hard to get a 2nd hand top end from a wrecker, or just pop another cheap engine in there from a GN or XR

have yourself a fxr250:D

[xwhatsit]

executive summary: Its fucked

Details? <tenchar>

[FilthyLuka]

Details? <tenchar>

Three litres of fuel in the sump, ran like this for 3000km, no longer runs. Took of the inspection cover on the LHS, splosh. Took out the sump plug, SSSSSPPPPLLLLOOOOOOOSSSSSHHHH trickle trickle SPLOOOSSSSSSHHHH

:shutup:

[FROSTY]

but it now runs--actually seems to idle quite happily

[EJK]

but it now runs--actually seems to idle quite happily

I don't get it. I'll come by tmrw. What do you need?

And after another 3,000km-ish later breaks down again?

[FROSTY]

Cause and effect. If I'm right (sometimes just sometimes I am) then fix the fuel leak or replace the tank and the cause will go away.
--Don't bother with the oil--no point chucking good money after bad.
Lets get the bitch either DEAD or running propperly then change the oil n filter. (or not)

[EJK]

I'm comming over with GIJOE... soon

[Ixion]

Sigh... Did I buy a fucked bike in the first place?

Pshaw. Not at all. Just needs a wee leak in the tank plugged up (Araldite is your firend), and maybe a new carb diaphragm. I suspect the latter has been the cause of your various woes all along.

'Twill be as good as new.

[EJK]

If it gets going, will it be able to do another 4,000kms?

[FilthyLuka]

If it gets going, will it be able to do another 4,000kms?

Its an air cooled single with a farken clean engine, add a zero onto that figure

[gijoe1313]

Well, I picked up and pillioned EJ to chez Frosty who greeted me like a demented goblin ... and promptly got down to brass tacks on the FXR.

We poked, prodded, chided and siliconed some stuff. We took stuff off and chucked it back on. We played with springs, tossed a CDI over a shoulder and onto the ground.

I should have brought out mr blocky and mr mallet :doh: But forgot to!

EJ finally got his hands dirty, complained about petrol not being good on baby soft skin and whether that fuel hose needed to be seen to (all in good time! :msn-wink:)

He now has an action plan, ditch the tank, score a new one, beg, borrow or steal a CDI to see if it is the main prob. And some minor parts scrounging and he should be ready to ride again!

Good man is Frosty, a bloody top bloke and damn knowledgeable about things with two wheels.

[EJK]

We poked, prodded, chided and siliconed some stuff

What? lol


Btw, yeah I'm now asking a guy who owns a FXR about this....

P.S. FXR needs a new garage to stay in

Edit: Ah almost forgot to say, Thanks FROSTY. I don't know how to thank you lol

[Pumba]

P.S. FXR needs a new garage to stay in

You have mail, if you need storage up until it is all running

[FROSTY]

Basicly Im shifting the yard on sunday so all must go

[EJK]

You have mail, if you need storage up until it is all running

Honestly I don't know what to say lol

Geez, I think I'm stirring up the whole KB. Going place to place bothering everyone... lol

[FilthyLuka]

Tank: http://www.motorbikeparts.co.nz/product_details.php?category_id=2&sub_category_id=5&product_id=320

Wrong color, but hey

CDI:

http://www.motorbikeparts.co.nz/product_details.php?category_id=2&sub_category_id=8&product_id=163

The CDI has no rev limiter, so mind ringing it out in firsts :P

[Pumba]

Honestly I don't know what to say lol

Geez, I think I'm stirring up the whole KB. Going place to place bothering everyone... lol

Well, its looking kind of empty at the moment with the depature of the SV, and besides you are not aware of my master plan, did I mention that recently got into bucket racing:devil2:

[Ixion]

Araldite. And see if you can borrow a CDI to swap out before you buy one. "It must be the CDI" is one of those default phrases, like "The carbs just need cleaning".

[FilthyLuka]

"The carbs just need cleaning".

Ah, the amount of times i've heard that :apint: good times

[jonbuoy]

You could replace the coozed diaphram temporarily with a bit of cut out rubber glove.

[EJK]

We suspect its either (got to be) the diaphram or the CDI.

First, I'll try for the CDI option...



If all fails, should I buy a new carb and a CDI?

If FXR carbs are expensive, how about GN250 carbs?
Follow by the no-revlimited CDI?


Edit: Wait, CDI is a computer thing right? How can it get damaged?

Edit: Airbox can be replaced with an air filter too?

[FilthyLuka]

We suspect its either (got to be) the diaphram or the CDI.

First, I'll try for the CDI option...



If all fails, should I buy a new carb and a CDI?

If FXR carbs are expensive, how about GN250 carbs?
Follow by the no-revlimited CDI?


Edit: Wait, CDI is a computer thing right? How can it get damaged?

Edit: Airbox can be replaced with an air filter too?

if the CDI Internals get wet, get too much charge, just die for no reason, then its poked.

As for the carb, just replace the diaphram, not the whole thing. If you wan't a FXR that will haul (comparitavely), then bolt on a GN250 carb, Pod filter, unlimited CDI and get it all tuned properly (i will give you a guys phone number). Do all that and you will most definetely have a FXR that will be lots of fun :devil2:

[FilthyLuka]

http://www.motorcyclecarbs.com/MIKUNI_TM32-1_CARBURETOR_P9801C776.cfm :whistle:

[Kickaha]

http://www.motorcyclecarbs.com/MIKUNI_TM32-1_CARBURETOR_P9801C776.cfm :whistle:

Bren_chch has some FCR flatslides coming in for the FXR150 as well and he has the race cdi and cams for them

[EJK]

:scratch:

hmmmmm

We'll see how we go...

First things first, garage. I'll contact Mr. Pumba

[motorbyclist]

Edit: Wait, CDI is a computer thing right? How can it get damaged?

Edit: Airbox can be replaced with an air filter too?

cdi is mechanical spark timing, driven by the camshaft (cam driven ignition)

yes, higher flow intake on samll engines makes a very noticable improvement too:D


:scratch:

hmmmmm

We'll see how we go...

First things first, garage. I'll contact Mr. Pumba

if that doesn't work i've got a shed, ute and trailer... plus i'm less than 7 minutes from frosty's

[Mike748]

Doh! I'm disappointed I didn't spot this thread earlier, I would definately have dropped by to help on the FXR.
So what's left to be done? sounds like it's getting the works and will end up better than new.

[EJK]

You are not too late sir! :)

Things needs to be done

New Garage
CDI test - CDI from another FXR
Replace tank - Rusted badly
Replace Ignition Engine Clutch (Is that what people call it?)
Thats all folks!
And we'll see how we go


Garage! Garage! I need garage!

P.S. Hey Andrew, can you help me out? Since you are closer to FROSTY's and you also have a FXR, I could (might) save some time :)

Well, thanks for the offer Mr. Pumba :yes:




Time is running out: Due date 16th April

[motorbyclist]

well seeing as i've got an fxr there's a CDI you could test right there

[EJK]

GIJOE is going to pick up the bike on Sunday around 4pm. Are you avaliable?

[motorbyclist]

where's he taking it? i should be free, but can't promise as yet. 5pm suits better

[Mike748]

You are not too late sir! :)

Things needs to be done

New Garage
CDI test - CDI from another FXR
Replace tank - Rusted badly
Replace Ignition Engine Clutch (Is that what people call it?)
Thats all folks!
And we'll see how we go


Garage! Garage! I need garage!

P.S. Hey Andrew, can you help me out? Since you are closer to FROSTY's and you also have a FXR, I could (might) save some time :)

Well, thanks for the offer Mr. Pumba :yes:




Time is running out: Due date 16th April

Can't help with Garage space but happy to help get you back on the road, if I can.

[motorbyclist]

garage space sorted, he's bringing it round to my shed


expect a whole lot of cheap fxr parts on trademe by monday morning :devil2:

[FROSTY]

please guys re4alise at 5.00pm on a sunday --Im gone home

[motorbyclist]

right, bike came around and we had a look-see

first problem is my dad and brother had all my tools out on an offroad ride, but we still managed to find the CDI is all sweet by swapping with my fxr. once the battery starts going flat the digital display has a little spaz out at due to low voltages while on the starter motor; normal, expected and not something to be worried about.

pulled out the air filter out and it was saturated with petrol, basically choking the engine. gave it a clean and the glue all fell apart, and the foam was starting to degrade too, becoming crumbly.

then tools arrived and we got into it. turns out the neighbour had one of my spark plug sockets, namely the only one to fit the fxr. cleaned up the plug, no spark. put a new plug in, no spark. noticed the CDI was unplugged, plugged the CDI back in, and suddenly we got big fat sparks:D

tried the kickstart and compression seems good compared to my running fxr.

pulled the battery out of the bulldozer and had a good run on the engine. i reckon the starter clutch is a bit dodgy, but that aside we could get the bike to run with a bit of skill after we removed the airbox. give it too much gas/revs and it stalled. it was misfiring a bit too, running very rich. when it stalled it often squirted gas back out the carby. also noticed the black slide/diaphram thing wasn't moving at all, explaining the rich fuel mix. took the lid off the carb and turns out the rubber diaphram wasn't properly seated, and there was silicone around where someone had tried to seal it. the rubber was a bit deformed

prior experience tells me petrol eats silicone and this was no exception. rubbed the remaining silicone off the rubber. frank (gijoe? - i'm hopeless with names) reckoned it would return to it's normal shape, so we left it in a safe and clean spot to dry out.

I noticed the black slide thingy was pretty worn on the sides, but at 50,000kms I'm not entirely surprised.

So, in summary:
EJ is buying a new air filter, or if that's ridiculously overpriced some foam to make a new one out of.
The bike DOES run, but is running VERY rich. I'm confident the internals are ok despite the petrol instead of oil incident.
The problem is most certainly entirely based around the carburetor.
Electrics and electronics seem to be good.
Will look at the fxr next time they're over.
"Imma chargin mah battery"; it seems fine, just flat.

plus EJ also needs a new rear tyre, the current one is both the wrong size and worn very square with no tread down the middle

[Mike748]

I'm a bit hard on some of my machines and a trial and error garage fixer so take that into consideration when reading this.
I'm also not familiar with the bike and I could be way off the mark but this is what I'd do next:

Go for the foam homemade replacement (or whichever is cheaper), unless he's riding metal roads it doesn't need to be hi tech, and I wouldn't use anything heavier in oil than a 2stroke mix to wet it (leave it dry even), then let the fuel dry off.

Good luck with the drying of the rubber, if it resizes ok put it back.

When your battery is ok fire it up, if it looks like it's still running rich count n record the turns on the fuel mix screw as you wind it right in. (reference point)

Crank it over to make sure it's dry of fuel, if it's flooded it'll try and fire as it clears.

Wind mix out 2.5 turns n crank it again it should fire but not run as it's too lean, crank and increase fuel mix until it idles.

This all assumes that the carb settings are your only issue, I've found that when things start playing up people love to "Tune things up" and a rich mix with lot's of throttle/idle can hide all sorts of minor maintenance problems.

Good luck.

[Ixion]

Bit of foam from para rubber will sort the air filter. Cheapa s chips

The diaphragm slide not moving will certainly mess up carburation(though usually would make it leaner, bu tit may not be going down - check that, it may be stuck in the UP position)

Sort the carb, and it'll be as good as new :clap:

[Squiggles]

plus EJ also needs a new rear tyre, the current one is both the wrong size and worn very square with no tread down the middle

yer, completely squared off aye? :pinch:

Might pay to have that battery checked out, i reckon its had it (everyone seems to have charged it!)

[FROSTY]

the silicone rubber bit was an attempt to secure the diaphram in place. it has been deformed before we got to it.--damb slide wasn't moving before and we had it moving--

[motorbyclist]

Bit of foam from para rubber will sort the air filter. Cheapa s chips

The diaphragm slide not moving will certainly mess up carburation(though usually would make it leaner, bu tit may not be going down - check that, it may be stuck in the UP position)

Sort the carb, and it'll be as good as new :clap:

it was stuck in the DOWN position. throttle was a butterfly behind the slide, assuming vaccuum - created when butterfly open and engine picks up - raises slide using the diaphragm, otherwise spring holds it down.

was thinking of playing around but choked the engine trying to get my finger in the gap to lift it


Go for the foam homemade replacement (or whichever is cheaper), unless he's riding metal roads it doesn't need to be hi tech, and I wouldn't use anything heavier in oil than a 2stroke mix to wet it (leave it dry even), then let the fuel dry off.

This all assumes that the carb settings are your only issue, I've found that when things start playing up people love to "Tune things up" and a rich mix with lot's of throttle/idle can hide all sorts of minor maintenance problems.


yeah i made clear to EJ that if a shop wanted more than $40 bucks for a filter, just buy some foam and we'll make 3 for $30. i've got some lube for my dirtbike and that works just fine, so we'll use a light app of that. would be good if he could get a paper pod filter; pocketbike one would be cheap and suitable.

and yeah, it always drives me nuts when people decide to fiddle with the idle/fuel mix before doing the basic stuff like checking the carb is actually working normally. then they don't count the number of turns, nor know exactly what the engine was doing before they fiddled with it!



Might pay to have that battery checked out, i reckon its had it (everyone seems to have charged it!)
probably due to all the starting with no running. will use the big truck battery for now till it's fixed


the silicone rubber bit was an attempt to secure the diaphram in place. it has been deformed before we got to it.--damb slide wasn't moving before and we had it moving--

you mean it was physically jammed or just not moving when it should?

(myself only learnt about silicone and carby's using it to seal up a bowl. a lump dissolved off and blocked the jet:doh:)

[FROSTY]

Ok -the jetting hasnt been touched. Nor have any screws on the carb.
Whats been done is the petroil mixture drained and the crankcase ventilated
The airbox got dried out
I screwwed the plug in tight and used my jet pack.The bike started and idled on choke. Wont rev up though
The carb was hauled out and the jets checked for blockage.
The damb slide seemed to be jammed but then it freed up and seemed to be going up and down propperly.
I hauled the lid off the carb and the diaphram wasnt attatched propperly -as in it wasn't in the groove as it should be. something in that carb is definitely sctrewey

My thinking is - Ok YOUR FXr runs fine. You swapped CDI units and no effect.
The carb comes out in a couple of secs so try swapping the carb over and see if the bike runs propperly on your carb.
I don't doubt that the blocked filter is making a difference b ut the bike should rev up and run okish with the filter out.

[motorbyclist]

Ok -the jetting hasnt been touched. Nor have any screws on the carb.
Whats been done is the petroil mixture drained and the crankcase ventilated
The airbox got dried out
I screwwed the plug in tight and used my jet pack.The bike started and idled on choke. Wont rev up though
The carb was hauled out and the jets checked for blockage.
The damb slide seemed to be jammed but then it freed up and seemed to be going up and down propperly.
I hauled the lid off the carb and the diaphram wasnt attatched propperly -as in it wasn't in the groove as it should be. something in that carb is definitely sctrewey

My thinking is - Ok YOUR FXr runs fine. You swapped CDI units and no effect.
The carb comes out in a couple of secs so try swapping the carb over and see if the bike runs propperly on your carb.
I don't doubt that the blocked filter is making a difference b ut the bike should rev up and run okish with the filter out.

sweet, thanks for the history, and my thoughts exactly if the diaphragm doesn't come right.

and of course the filter doesn't help, but will want one in there when we finally get it going and get the mix right. we of course don't know if the previous owner fiddled with the carb at all nor how much.

reckon it's still got the original, ie correct, size jet/needle in there?

[FROSTY]

Thing is the bike HAS run fine for EL. So logic says as long as nowts been fiddled with it should run.
The main issue has been identified so by swappping the carb over even without the filter the bike starting and revving up will decide definitely that the issue is the carb

[motorbyclist]

ah, logic, of course.... now why didn't i consider that? - i never assume the previous owner hasn't rooted the bike and "fixed" it soley to sell it on to the next unsuspecting trademe user unless i know the seller personally.


i think it's a safe bet that it's the carb - running very rich and obviously not operating. will of course swap carbs at some point to be sure that's the only issue at hand.

any info on what the oily petrol did to the cams? valve stem seals? (there isn't any blue smoke - yet)

[gijoe1313]

You good thing you, working into the wee hours of the night! :niceone: Was good to meet you and your family yesterday! Cheers to Frosty for the lend of some better tie-downs, I rushed back to drop them off, but was only confronted with the slow steady tick of the electric fence! :sweatdrop

[EJK]

Thanks everyone last night.



Sort the carb, and it'll be as good as new :clap:

I hope so lol

[Squiggles]

time for a gn carb i say

[EJK]

time for a gn carb i say

I know, but GIJUSTIN1313 says "Diaphram can be fixed! :D"

:blank:

GN carb = Last resort

[FilthyLuka]

GN carb = Last resort

If you can find one on trademe for like $20 i dont see why you couldn't just do that... would go a bit better too. I can give you dimensions for pods and what not, so the entire airbox can go. Meaning also if the tank gets busted again, no chance of the same thing happenin :niceone:

Hell, you could probably even grab the carb of this:

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Parts-accessories/Other/auction-147336223.htm?p=27

[EJK]

What was about the carb tuning? timing tuning? something like that?

Whats that?

P.S. Bike still won't start easily when the engine is cold. Is there a way that I can fix this?

[xwhatsit]

Kick harder?

If you're going to do a carb swap, get one of my CB250RS carbs. Round-slide pumper MX-style. Instant *SNAP*. That thing would scream.

I wouldn't be worrying about cold-starting right now until the carb is actually back together. Might be something as simple as pilot screw set right.

[motorbyclist]

If you can find one on trademe for like $20 i dont see why you couldn't just do that... would go a bit better too. I can give you dimensions for pods and what not, so the entire airbox can go. Meaning also if the tank gets busted again, no chance of the same thing happenin :niceone:

Hell, you could probably even grab the carb of this:

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Parts-accessories/Other/auction-147336223.htm?p=27

haha yeah, his up squiggles for discount parts :D

i did suggest that EJ look at a GN or DR carb and/or pod filter.


What was about the carb tuning? timing tuning? something like that?

Whats that?

P.S. Bike still won't start easily when the engine is cold. Is there a way that I can fix this?

"tuning" is just the term for "optimising" the engine, if you like.

to burn correctly you need a certain ratio of fuel to air entering the engine:
too much fuel (rich) and it doesn't all burn properly, fouling up the engine and plug with carbon and not giving much power.
too little fuel (lean) and it creates far too much heat and things either melt or expand too much and seize up. EDIT: even less fuel and the thing won't have enough to run on!

also, to acheive maximum efficiency the engine should be running as hot as physically possible. unfortunately modern materials mean that our highest running temperatures are only a fraction of what the petrol fuel can manage - too hot (over 900 degrees) and things get soft, melt and/or expand too far. this also means that when you go to start a cold motor, it doesn't produce much power at all and thus is hard to keep running - PLUS the engine hasn't expanded yet to there isn't very good seals where needed PLUS the oil is both thick and all sitting in the sump. the choke is used to alter the fuel mix to again make the engine run well at low temperatures, and even then you may have trouble due to thick oil, high friction where oil is yet to reach, poor tolerances etc etc. cold starting problems are normal. you may hear around KB or people blocking off two stroke radiators to get more power - same story again with the added challenge of burning off oil. diesel (compression ignition) engines are MUCH more efficient than petrol engines for these reasons, using pressure and temperature to ignite the fuel rather than a spark gives upwards of 60% efficiency, much more than the 35% ideal efficiency of the 4 stroke igntion engine

i can get into the chemistry and thermodynamics of it if you like :D

getting the right fuel mix is acheived by tuning the carb. the whole engine can be further tuned to run smoother/better by adjusting spark and valve timing, and when we're finished with the FuXR we'll include turbo boost, backpressure, high compression pistons, increasing the displacement, etc, then throw on a slipper clutch and carbon fibre bodywork :D

timing is generally the spark timing. the fuel takes time to burn, so it pays to fire just a bit before top dead centre (TDC) and the expansion of the burning fuel actually gives even higher compression to the unburnt gases - higher compression means more efficiency and MOAR POWER. but of course it does press back on the piston slightly among a few other trade-offs. as such there is an optimum spark time for a given engine at a given rpm. ideally we vary it so it's always at optimum, but asfaik the fxr isn't capable of that so we're stuck with a given time that we can set.

timing can also include valve timing. both exhaust and inlet valves open slightly before you would expect them to, and close again a fair bit later than you would think they would too. this is due to the time required to open/close them, and the inertia/momentum/elasticity/velocity of the various gases in the engine/intake/exhaust. again it's a bit of a trade off as there is an optimum setting for a certain rpm that won't work well elsewhere. gotta get as much fuel in as possible, as much compression as possible, and the least trouble removing the waste gases as possible

it's these tradeoffs that typically give an engine it's "power band", that kick the fxr gives at 8000rpm through to redline is when it starts to run at it's best efficiency. two strokes have such 'aggressive' bands as due to the nature of them they are tuned to only work efficiently at high revs. as such a power valve helps fix this and widen the power band, giving smoother power.

advances in electronic controls have given us technologies that overcome these problems. fuel injection to give the perfect mix, variable valve and spark timing to give the optimum running conditions at all engine speeds. it's getting to the point now where they can do away with cams and associated moving parts with electronically controlled hydraulics pushing the valves!

so enjoy this age of carburetors and cam chains while it lasts, manually and mechanically setting things the way you see best with screwdrivers and hammers. already today, in order to tune many modern bikes and cars all one has to do is plug in their laptop, and that's only if the on board computers aren't quite getting the job right automatically. come the shift towards electric vehicles there won't even be anything to tune without physically altering the already 99% efficient layout of the motor's windings - that 1% loss is basically a slight heat loss and friction via cooling fans and bearings!


and that just about covers everything:D


i am so sussed for the MECHENG223 "machines and mechanisms" test next week :wari:

[FROSTY]

shit dude in the time it took to type that you coulda swappaed the carbs over and answered the question

[Squiggles]

Look, either you buy the $60 GN carb off tardme, or im buying it and it'll go into my pile of them / one of my bikes, you have till tomorrow!

[motorbyclist]

shit dude in the time it took to type that you coulda swappaed the carbs over and answered the question

lol yeah well i've gotta make up for all the study time lost to KB somehow


(plus it's a good summary of engines for those who want to know)

[motorbyclist]

ok, just went down to the shed and took a few pics of the diaphragm


as we can see it's still a bit munted, but that's probably normal...

getting it back on correctly looks difficult to say the least unless we too use silicone. will have a go next time EJ comes round

[EJK]

Seriously I can't wait no longer :(

Patience is enough! It's been a month already!


On my way to Colemans...



getting it back on correctly looks difficult to say the least unless we too use silicone. will have a go next time EJ comes round

Fuck that, It wont make any difference. We tried that last time and it didn't work.

[avgas]

fix it from Colemans ($900, I don't think so tho)
(
Consider yourself lucky.....i got a quote today for my poor ol' Jessica.
$1700 all up.
Visa are gonna f'ing love me.
And before you ask - no there are no tyres in that one - just full service, sealing of tank, new batt, new reg/rec, rewound stator and a puncture repair.
Biker gods punish me for my bad ways.

[xwhatsit]

On my way to Colemans...

No, idiot! Just buy a new diaphragm from them. No point wasting money.

[gijoe1313]

:doh: after all the stuff I said!? :Oi: get thee to some spare parts and repair the little bike! :Playnice:

Damn rich asians, got more money than sense I tells ya! :msn-wink:

[motorbyclist]

On my way to Colemans...


you are hereby officially forbidden from buying more than a battery, a tube of araldyte, and a 2nd hand carby for that FXR.

i don't wanna see you go spending a grand on parts and labour when squiggles could give you a carb for 50 bucks, you can buy a suitable tube of epoxy glue for $10, and a new battery for $60

that's $120 my way, vs $1200 the colemans way, and either way it still won't be done till you get here to pick up the bike!

(and just today i read a thread where a guy sent a bike into colemans with a list of symptoms including a boiling battery, got charged $120 to be told it was fine, and then at home used a multimeter to find the reg/rec was rooted in about 5 minutes)

[Ixion]

Mercy's sakes. Just swap the carbs for a known good, to prove it is JUST the carb. If it is, dismantle carb, replace defective parts, clean reassemble, good as new.

BTW, that slide does have a needle in it doesn't it?

[motorbyclist]

yep it does

butterfly for a throttle on this one, as opposed the type where the slide IS the throttle

[gijoe1313]

If Coleman's comes for the bike, prepare to repel boarders! "Arrr ye not be havin' th'little bike ye scallywags!"

So need to swap the carbies to see if it is the carbie, if it is the carbie then it what Ixion sez! How hard can that be? Tch, youn'uns these days ... always thinking "its fecked" like chicken little!

Its funny to read how we are so much fecked off by this admission of defeat, yet we are all prepared to help the little bike back onto the road! :oi-grr:

EJ, do the right things like you know you should ... sitting on your hands wringing them is pointless when you have so many willing to help you ... grow a backbone and be a proper biker! :doctor:

[Ixion]

yep it does

butterfly for a throttle on this one, as opposed the type where the slide IS the throttle

Yes, diaphragm types usually (always ?) have a butterfly throttle. Just I couldn't see the needle in the pictures. And I remember once being very puzzled by a bike that would start idle nicely and cut out once the throuttle was opened. Peering down the venturi - no needle (it was an Amal). Found it on the floor of the mates gargre. Oh, I never noticed that when I took it apart. On the Amal, once the throttle cable and spring were removed, the needle and clip could fall stright out if you tipped the slide upside down.

[FilthyLuka]

it was an Amal

Isn't that a problem within itself? :p

EJ, harden the fuck up. Bolt on a working carb, if it works, new diaphram and a can of carb cleaner and you'll be sweet? Its not like its Melted the piston into the bore....

[Ixion]

Nope. The Amal Monobloc was a damn good carb. Simple relaible versatile, tunable.

The earlier one, can't remember the model number , one with the float bowl that came off, that was even better.

The GP was a pig. Pure pig. And the Concentric was crap. No more so than most carbs thoug.

Best bike carbs are the SU on early Triumphs, and the (what the hell are they , Holleys ? ) on Harleys.

[EJK]

you are hereby officially forbidden from buying more than a battery, a tube of araldyte, and a 2nd hand carby for that FXR.

i don't wanna see you go spending a grand on parts and labour when squiggles could give you a carb for 50 bucks, you can buy a suitable tube of epoxy glue for $10, and a new battery for $60

that's $120 my way, vs $1200 the colemans way, and either way it still won't be done till you get here to pick up the bike!

(and just today i read a thread where a guy sent a bike into colemans with a list of symptoms including a boiling battery, got charged $120 to be told it was fine, and then at home used a multimeter to find the reg/rec was rooted in about 5 minutes)

Who said I'm going to buy all the parts from colemans? :laugh:

Geez, I just found out the price for an aftermarket filter foam bit...

I have two weeks or so left... Now, every hour of bike not working is a pain.

P.S. Steve doesn't have a spare GN carb.
P.P.S Any suggestions on carb? Can't find any on Trademe (wrecks).



So need to swap the carbies to see if it is the carbie, if it is the carbie then it what Ixion sez! How hard can that be? Tch, youn'uns these days ... always thinking "its fecked" like chicken little!

Its funny to read how we are so much fecked off by this admission of defeat, yet we are all prepared to help the little bike back onto the road! :oi-grr:

EJ, do the right things like you know you should ... sitting on your hands wringing them is pointless when you have so many willing to help you ... grow a backbone and be a proper biker! :doctor:

I'm working on it!

I've never done anything like this before.

Right now I don't know where to get a carb from. Plus I barely have time to do a search.

[xwhatsit]

He means swap the carb with the working FXR carb Motorbyclist has, just to see if it'll run properly. If so, then it's confirmed your existing carb is fecked. Probably not necessary to buy a whole new carb; the other problem with going to a GN250 carb or CB250RS carb or whatever is that you will almost certainly need to dial it in a bit -- swap jets, move needle, fuck around. Plus, is it going to match straight to the airbox?

I know you're impatient, but let's try and sort the existing carb first to save hassle in the long run.

[motorbyclist]

what happened to that DR250 stephen was parting off?

we'll use my one as a test to be 100% sure it's the carby only causing a problem, but we'll want to try a 250 one before buying incase it runs like a dog

ready when you are:)

[EJK]

Yeah guess my patience seems to seeing its end since I'm under stress about the time.

Well, when is good to try? I'm free whole day tomorrow.

Hey Andrew, can we try that? Using your Carb just to test its the right problem?

Thanks.

Sigh, time to contact Justin again for a pick up...

[Squiggles]

what happened to that DR250 stephen was parting off?

we'll use my one as a test to be 100% sure it's the carby only causing a problem, but we'll want to try a 250 one before buying incase it runs like a dog

ready when you are:)

The DR i'm parting is from 94, and no idea of the condition of that carb anyway

I only have one really good gn carb (in pieces), the others have pinholes in the diaphragms... Shoulda bought that $60 one off tardme, it was a minter

Do the carb swap with mb's fxr, piss easy and will reveal all.

[motorbyclist]

ok, it is definitely the carby. swapped them around and the bike ran sweet.


currently looking for a new carby to fit the bike rather than the diaphragm. pushed the slide up and it doesn't return anyway. we see a GN250 will fit fine.


approx dimensions: Inlet 45mm OD 40mm ID Outlet 37mm OD 28mm ID body roughly 87mm long

wish EJ had bought that $60 GN one on thursday, would be here by now...

[Buddha#81]

Widen your search.....a early '80's 250cc XR, XL, carb will fit. Thats what i've got on mine and I can give you details of jetting etc.......

A GN250 carb is the ultimate they fit and jetting is correct standard.

[EJK]

What a coincidence... Searched up on Trademe "XR 250" and someone was 'coincidentally' selling XR parts...

and 'coincidentally', the sellers ID is Squiggles. :crazy:

PM sent :Punk:

[motorbyclist]

how'd you fit that XR carb? don't they have the bolt on style manifold?

[Buddha#81]

nope same as FXR, fits straight on! I'll go and take a photo, stay tuned...............

[Buddha#81]

Here ya go......Sketchy Racer did the conversion so I don't know much about it but it produces slightly better low down power over GN250 carbed FXR's

[EJK]

Ah I see... Thanks very much for the pics :)

[xwhatsit]

Same as a CB250RS carb. I have three, but they're all in bits. The advantage of the CB250RS carb over that XL250S carb is that it has an accelerator pumper. I can't see that on yours -- but it's got the hole for it above the float bowl. Very strange.

Anyway, like I said, I've got enough bits to make three CB250RS carbs, but they're all in pieces. What jetting are you running, Buddha?

EJ -- what year is the XR250 on Tardme? They changed markedly after about 1982 (which is what we need -- pre 1982), went to a dual carb set-up for a while, then the engines got more powerful and higher compression and went to CV carbs and all kinds of silly things.

[EJK]

Its a 1987 model I believe...

However, would a Honda Carb work on a Suzuki bike?

[xwhatsit]

Its a 1987 model I believe...

However, would a Honda Carb work on a Suzuki bike?

That'll be too new. It'll either be twin carb, or CV -- not the earlier PD70A/PD70C style round-slides.

No reason why not, lol! You know what's scary? I've got a Suzuki headlight on my bike -- and Tommaselli clip-ons -- and I just got a Yamaha headlight in the post from Japan I'm going to bolt up. How's that!

At any rate, neither carb is Honda or Suzuki. The Honda carb is a Keihin, and the FXR will either be Keihin or Mikuni.

[Ixion]

Carbs is carbs. Work on anythign if the sizing and jetting is right. Just a matter of mountings. I've got spare Mikunis for RZ250 and T500 bikes (125 and 250 cc cylinders). No idea how theyed go for jetting though.

[Buddha#81]

They try rejecting it, like a kidney transplant, but with plenty of love and the right medicine it will be fine.......Carbs are not branded like bikes but are made for bike companys by carb manufacturers.

Its dawned on me, my jetting will not work on a std FXR, I don't run a air fiter and have a non standard exhaust. But standard jetting will be close. The pumper on a CB carb will probally drown the poor wee FXR.

Good luck.

[EJK]

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=66182

Hmmm...
I have few options...

I see hope! :innocent:

[Buddha#81]

Carbs is carbs. Work on anythign if the sizing and jetting is right. Just a matter of mountings. I've got spare Mikunis for RZ250 and T500 bikes (125 and 250 cc cylinders). No idea how theyed go for jetting though.


2 stroke emution tubes are different to cope with twice as many induction cycles, I've never got a 2 stroke carb running right on a 4 stroke (but I'm bordering on hopeless).

[xwhatsit]

They try rejecting it, like a kidney transplant, but with plenty of love and the right medicine it will be fine.......Carbs are not branded like bikes but are made for bike companys by carb manufacturers.

Its dawned on me, my jetting will not work on a std FXR, I don't run a air fiter and have a non standard exhaust. But standard jetting will be close. The pumper on a CB carb will probally drown the poor wee FXR.

Good luck.

So you richened up the stock XL250 settings? What main jet are you running? More than 122?

It's still ideal to get hold of a stock FXR carb, or fix the existing one. Otherwise it'll become a hassle... EJ a few months down the track complaining because he can't start the bike in the middle of winter without draining the battery etc. Manufacturers usually get it right.

[Buddha#81]

So you richened up the stock XL250 settings? What main jet are you running? More than 122?

It's still ideal to get hold of a stock FXR carb, or fix the existing one. Otherwise it'll become a hassle... EJ a few months down the track complaining because he can't start the bike in the middle of winter without draining the battery etc. Manufacturers usually get it right.

Thats why the GN is the best option......fit forget.......no fettling needed except giving it a clean.

[EJK]

My options. Help me decide.


Buy a GN 250 Carb
Buy the wreck
Buy other 250cc Carb and tune it

Should I get the wreck?
I'll do a search for a GN250 carb around the wreckers too.

[Buddha#81]

Get the wreck and swap out all the best bits and sell to recoup the $$$$'s it may end up a free fix or pretty cheap.

[Squiggles]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Parts-accessories/Engine-drive-train/auction-148382447.htm

Theres a tank for ya

I'd buy that bike you're talking about and bucket race it, but i cant justify another one in the shed till a couple more are gone :pinch:

[motorbyclist]

unless you have a place to keep it and time to part it, don't buy the wreck (or buy it and gift me all the leftovers once your bike is finished)

just chase down an FXR or GN carb

anything with an accelerator pump will flood the bike. those are for big bores to stop them lagging and get a decent response from them.

[motorbyclist]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Parts-accessories/Engine-drive-train/auction-148382447.htm

Theres a tank for ya



snap! i found that one on thursday and was about to link to it. seller still hasn't answered my question though....

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=148076273
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=148074585
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=148566588

[EJK]

Think I'll find a GN250 carb from a wreckers...

There are plenty of GNs in NZ, so they MUST have em don't you guys think?
Besides, it's cheaper option :yes:

and faster!!!

[EJK]

Just saw this while doing a bit of a research...

http://www.motorbikeparts.co.nz/product_details.php?category_id=2&sub_category_id=23&product_id=257

:shit: 4 Carbs!

Then I thought, really I am lucky to have a single cylinder, single carb bike :lol:

[motorbyclist]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=148382795&permanent=0

[EJK]

Lets say I got the foam and the carb. Now when can we put it back together?

[gijoe1313]

You tell us you got the parts, you get me to take you and MB can be there... it will be a spannering par excellence and one fixxed up FXR! :headbang:

[EJK]

And I'll buy KFC for whoever helps me :D


Maybe....

[motorbyclist]

swap KFC for beer and it'll be done as soon as you arrive with parts (and beers)

thursday night is a test, friday arvo i'm at the pub. saturday morning onwards, however, is free:)

[Ixion]

Well , as some bastard stole my mill-drill , Saturday morning is free, Where and when, for God's sake lets get this finalised.

[EJK]

I'm getting the tank :)

I guess later I'll change the bike name to Suzuki FXR150 Tricolore :rofl:


Well , as some bastard stole my mill-drill , Saturday morning is free, Where and when, for God's sake lets get this finalised.

Are you desperate to help or want some food? :shifty:

P.S. I can't reach wreckers! No time and no transport... Hmm should I fake a test ride and do a quick shopping? :lol:

[FROSTY]

If it aint too late. Buy the wreck no question.
Put the carb,tank, exhaust and tail cosmetics onto yours your stuff on the wreck and readvertise it on tard me
It would transform that bike

[EJK]

Damn I lost the tank... *sigh*

[motorbyclist]

by only one cent too!
what a cheap/cheeky bastard, putting on bids 1 cent over a dollar so he'd beat your auto-bid

yeah look at the wreck and pull EVERYthing good off it that doesn't have a number on it... gijoe or myself could tow it on a trailer (rather him than me, dunno if dad will be using his ute on saturday)

[EJK]

I called ALL the wreck & parts store and they don't have neither GN250 or FXR carb! :gob:

Shi!!!!!t... I have one week to get this bike going! :gob:

Hey, if things don't work out in a week, can I borrow your carb? :sweatdrop
I'll pay ofcourse :sweatdrop

:sweatdrop
:sweatdrop
:sweatdrop
:sweatdrop
:sweatdrop

P.S. Guess I'll beg Enzoyug...

[gijoe1313]

guess you didn't order that replacement diaphram as well? :doh:

"*sigh** that $60 GN carb was a gift from the biker gods ... and what was given they can take away! :lol:

What about that foam filter? And thinking of that wreck now? Is there a new John Woo film coming about? Why does one sock always go missing in the wash? When will the saints come marching in? How come they pack those little sauce sachets with the right amount of pressure to make it so hard to take off without splurking all over you? Where is Shangri-La and Alantis?

Oh why why why EJ?

WHY?

Oh the humanity of it all!

[EJK]

guess you didn't order that replacement diaphram as well? :doh:
You never said anything about "Order it" lol I'd ordered it if you said you know how to assemble carbs

"*sigh** that $60 GN carb was a gift from the biker gods ... and what was given they can take away! :lol:
TBH I don't remember the sale...

What about that foam filter? And thinking of that wreck now? I have ordered it. They'll call me when it arrivesIs there a new John Woo film coming about? Why does one sock always go missing in the wash? When will the saints come marching in? How come they pack those little sauce sachets with the right amount of pressure to make it so hard to take off without splurking all over you? Where is Shangri-La and Alantis? ????????

Oh why why why EJ?

WHY?

Oh the humanity of it all!

Ehhhh????

+10

[EJK]

PM sent to EnzoYug. I'll buy it as fast as I can and fix it as fast as I can cause I now have only a week to finish it.

[Ixion]

F' gawds sake, you only need a carb and a bit of Araldite.

[motorbyclist]

let's just get it finished and done....

[motorbyclist]

so what's the go? in the shed saturday? dunno what i'm doing sunday

[EJK]

I still have no words from EnzoYug.

[motorbyclist]

ok, so while we don't have a carb we don know that a GN250 will bolt on but is slightly too big for the fxr boot/airbox and runs a bit rich. not too hard to fix, just gotta get a carb or a new diaphragm/slide for the current carby

[motorbyclist]

2001 FXR150 carby approx dimensions: Inlet OD 45mm Outlet OD 37mm

1979 XL250s (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=149131828) carby approx dimensions: Inlet OD 46mm Outlet OD 40mm

:blip:

[EJK]

Thanks but I think I'll pass... lol

It will still run abit rich

[motorbyclist]

Thanks but I think I'll pass... lol

It will still run abit rich

nothing a bit of fiddling/rejetting won't fix

but getting the fxr part is easier to fit

[EJK]

It ends in 30 minutes.. What do you think? :wait:

:scratch:

[motorbyclist]

see if he makes an offer when it ends, either that or ask for a relist when we decide

[xwhatsit]

Fuggit if you want one of those, just get one of my RS carbs and disconnect the accelerator pump. Not hard. Plus, you won't look like a tit with that silly colour scheme. It's the same thing -- 33mm inside, 40mm outside -- and it won't cost you much.

Dead easy to disconnect the pump, if you're worried about it. Or, seeing as the pump is adjustable for how much you want to squirt out, so just make it squirt out next to nothing.

[EJK]

Too late... it's closed

[motorbyclist]

coloured carb won't matter on a mostly fairinged bike.... how much for the rs carb?

[xwhatsit]

coloured carb won't matter on a mostly fairinged bike.... how much for the rs carb?

Dunno, how much was that XL250S carb?

[BAD DAD]

So just to summarize, where are you at with this bike now? Everything fixed except the carb? What was the big deal with 20th of April? Not just being nosey, actually quite interesting to watch progress.

[EJK]

I was going to do a Tour around the South Island, starting on 18th April. Obviously it's now cancelled...

Well yeah, only the carb is the problem now, no the leaking tank too. Just need to find a carb (Preferably FXR carb) then get it going. I'll sell it when the work is done. :)

Aerodyte(???) could fix the tank. "Eazie Job!!!!" says GIJOE1313 lol


Dunno, how much was that XL250S carb?

It was buy now for $50

[xwhatsit]

It was buy now for $50

Well you can have it for a couple of green ones then. I'll bring both carbs that aren't attached to bikes and you guys have a look and pick the best one. I've got 122 and 125 main jets, slow jet is fixed (but will be fine, just adjust with pilot mixture screw and needle height) and two different needle types which are adjustable over a large range.

[EJK]

I don't know... well surely I can afford it but will it like.... run without a problem? lol

Gosh I'm sucha noob....

[xwhatsit]

I don't know... well surely I can afford it but will it like.... run without a problem? lol

Gosh I'm sucha noob....

Hahah. Ask motorbyclist. It's basically the same carb as that XL250S carb, but with an accelerator pump (which you can tune appropriately or disable entirely).

See whether motorbyclist thinks it's a good idea or not. If it doesn't run and you haven't broken anything or bent needles or whatever I'll buy it back for the same $40.

[EJK]

Thanks, we'll see about that :)

[motorbyclist]

it's worth a go

but i'm not familiar with adjusting accelerator pumps despite my dirtbike having one, so a bit of a "this does this" would be helpful when we get it.

also a noob with the jetting, never had to mess with it, just used the pilot screw and needle height to get where i want. very keen to learn though; once i've got that mastered i don't think there's going to be much i don't know:)

[xwhatsit]

Well if you're keen, find out from Buddha what main jet he's using in that XL250S carb. Then go down three at a guess (if he's 118, go to 115 e.g.), as he's running open pipe/box etc. $6-7 a jet is what it cost me. Needle on leanest position. Shouldn't be hard to get it pretty close.

Adjusting accelerator pumper is just a matter of shifting a bracket. Or disable it entirely for easier tuning (although you might get that classic round-slide *gasp* if you crack open the throttle too quickly).

You're going to keep the stock airbox? Not going with a pod filter?

I'll give you a hand with it of course, I've dismantled these Keihin PD70s waaaay too many times lol.

Photocopy the pages out of my Haynes which has got all the stuff on dismantling/rebuilding these carbs.

[EJK]

I prefer the Pod Filter, cause the airbox thingy is just annoying... hahaha

[Buddha#81]

Take xerxesdaphat up on his offer........My FXR is running a Airbox with no filter, Keep the airbox on with your new filter for wet weather riding if nothing else. My Pipe is pretty free flowing but this info will give you a base line.

Im running a Keihin "05ABG"?
idle jet = 40
main jet started life as a 122 but its now farken huge (try the 122)
Needle is on the middle grove.
Mixture screw is two turns out.

You have a money back garentee.......what ya got to loose?

[gijoe1313]

:slap: EJ, with all these luvverly KBers helping you out y'know they wouldn't be giving you the bum steer!

Xerxes may be onto a winner here! :yes: Helpful that this young chap has managed to work so much on carbs due to necessity! His expertise will be most helpful:headbang:!

[FilthyLuka]

Get the Xerxes carb of him, do it. For a couple of greenies its like, nothing. As far as the airbox goes, ditch it for a pod. Not for performance sake, its just that if you are aralditing the tank (if you cant find any i have a tube or seven left, can come round and do ti for you) it may leak again for whatever reason (bodgy fix, cracks with vibration, who knows?) and atleast with the pod you wouldn't have to worry about a crank case full of petrol again.

Buy the carb, its a single cylinder four stroke. It's really not that hard to tune it to work properly, and you certainly aren't the first person putting a bigger carb on an FXR. There will be a few people who can give you tips and tricks as to how to make it run sweet.

Buy the carb, change some jets, put the accelerator pump on the "sweet fuck all" setting and off you go!

[xwhatsit]

How much of an issue is a pod filter when riding in rain? Is it really that bad? This being a faired bike.

[motorbyclist]

puddles? the fairings aren't that great, but it's still not to bad.

i could fashion a weather sheild for it...

[EJK]

Where can I get the filter? Since I don't have the bike in line-of-sight, whats the measuremant that can fit on to the FXR?

[motorbyclist]

depends on the carby

[EJK]

:doh: thats right....

[xwhatsit]

I'm pretty sure the outside of the filter-side is 47mm or near enough. Will get a proper measurement.

Will it not fit the airbox and stock filter, though?

[EJK]

It can. Plus the foam costs around $40 too.

But if the tank leaks again, the "box" will catch the petrol again(?)

[motorbyclist]

it's a matter of the tank leaking and the carby being the wrong length... already had hassles where the gn carb was too big for the fxr boot and would fall off if you hit a decent bump in the road.

but if it works we will make it (or the bike or both) fit

[FilthyLuka]

It can. Plus the foam costs around $40 too.

But if the tank leaks again, the "box" will catch the petrol again(?)

Yes, yes it would.

@xerxes, the pods aint too bad, i rode the GSXR (4 pods) this mornin, had a wee bit of white smoke coming outta the exhaust, nothing major i wouldn't think. As far as im aware, a wee bit of the ol' rain droplets in the combustion chamber won't hurt no nothing.

[Buddha#81]

Run the airbox but dont put the crankcase breather back on the air box or drill a couple of holes on the lowest point so the gas (if it leaks) drains externally..........and get into a habit of turning the gas off!

[motorbyclist]

turning the gas off wouldn't help much unless the carby float had a habit of sticking (though it does make a good anti-theft device). the tank actually has a hole in it causing the leak problem.

if we go with the pod filter i'd just get a longer hose and re-route the breather to dump onto the road or into a receiver, with a light bit of foam in there as a filter held by some pins as a guard against bugs/grit/water.... (the yfz450 quads have had problems in the past with their "just dump the stuff" total loss oil breathers/overflows being less than 450cc long, thus sucking dust/sand into the engine. the two wheelers never seemed to get this problem despite a near identical engine and setup though...)


does anyone find that bugs just love engine oil? whenever i leave some in an open container/pan i come back 24 hours later to find bugs all through it

[Squiggles]

Best i can do is give some other models that will work
Keihin PE 28
A flatside off a DR200
Gn250 carb...

Standard is a Mikuni BS29, which is used on other bikes (such as the LT-F250), perhaps a google may reveal some others you could try to locate carbs from...

[EJK]

OK so far we've decided to try Xerxes' carb. At the moment we will use the airbox. So... When can we get to it?
How about this Saturday?

[gijoe1313]

OK so far we've decided to try Xerxes' carb. At the moment we will use the airbox. So... When can we get to it?
How about this Saturday?

I be attending a wedding that day, Sunday I should be able to swing and of course with the hols on next week ...

Did you order that diaphram?

[EJK]

What? What diaphram? We are going to try with Xerxes' carb aint we???
:blink:

I'm confused...

[gijoe1313]

What? What diaphram? We are going to try with Xerxes' carb aint we???
:blink:

I'm confused...

I thought we were going to also have a crack to fix up your old carby heh...

But obviously we shall have to wait and see if Xerxes carby does the trick first!

[EJK]

Xerxes' option is cheaper. We'll see how we go

[boostin]

If you want a hand fitting the new carb tomorrow or Fri give me a yell and I will come help you out.

[EJK]

Whos busy tomorrow????

[FilthyLuka]

Whos busy tomorrow????

Hey dude, sort out a date for mounting the carb. I can come lend a hand with tuning/rejetting and what not.

[xwhatsit]

Alright awesome. I think I can do Sunday.

[EJK]

I'm cool with Sunday afternoon. Anyone else? I'll get some food :)

[motorbyclist]

sweet as, tell me how it runs

i've got alot of uni stuff to be doing, plus drider's bike needs to be running asap

[EJK]

Btw wheres my bike?

[xwhatsit]

So, er, when are we going to do this? Tomorrow? I'm not keen on doing this all myself, as I'll probably spend hours trying to dismantle the FXR not being familiar with its innards myself. You going to be around, Motorbyclist? Isn't it at your house? GiJoe1313 available?

[motorbyclist]

gijoe has it

fxr already dismantled, just somehow attach the carb, hook up a fuel line and go for gold

i've got heaps of uni stuff to be doing - multiple tests and assignments due this week

[gijoe1313]

Cheers people, been preparing for a wedding ... been up to 5am prepping table decorations and just got home from the reception :sleep:

Righto the plan is for Xerxes to head over to chez Donors (with the carby) and I will be there in attendance to give the FXR a bit of the ol'learn.

Damn, for me being on holiday, it sure doesn't feel like it! :doh:

Make it some decent time like 11am or something so I can have a bit of a lie-in :whistle:

[xwhatsit]

Cheers people, been preparing for a wedding ... been up to 5am prepping table decorations and just got home from the reception :sleep:

Righto the plan is for Xerxes to head over to chez Donors (with the carby) and I will be there in attendance to give the FXR a bit of the ol'learn.

Damn, for me being on holiday, it sure doesn't feel like it! :doh:

Make it some decent time like 11am or something so I can have a bit of a lie-in :whistle:

Won't be happening today, mate, sorry. I'm required to attend family get-together :Pokey: :rolleyes:

Will work out some evening soon. Sorry!

[xwhatsit]

Well I popped out tonight and brought carbs etc. Meticulously cleaned and set-up the best one, running the leanest settings available. Bolted it all up (don't like that forced-on rubber manifold courtesy of GiJoe1313 -- hopefully it doesn't pop off or leak), no airbox or filter, just open carb. Ran into first problem -- silly CV-type throttle cable won't fit the roundslide carb throttle spindle. Second problem rather more definite -- EJ, the silly bastard, has the key sitting at home with him in Albany.

GiJoe1313 jumps on the yellow screamer, zips off to Albany, picks up key, comes back. Set idle high, put in key, push button -- nada. Turns over, nothing going on. Remember the bike doesn't have the fuel tank on so there's no fuel in the carb. Put tank on, battery goes flat. Kick it a few times and it cracks into life then procedes to scream its nuts out until I can find idle adjustment.

Warmed it up, gave it some revs with my hand, sounds good, no rich smoke (although it smells a little rich at idle -- need to fiddle with pilot mixture). Kill engine, hit starter, engine goes, wash, rinse and repeat. All good.

GiJoe1313 gets cable ties and makes the throttle cable work. I give it a good thrash up the road, it goes, makes a nice howl through the open carb, and begins to really fly once the revs get up. Might be onto a winner here, EJ.

So GiJoe1313 is going to try a couple of my spare throttle cables. Bolt up the airbox -- carb is much longer than the old one, so might have to go with a pod filter in the end. Will make it run richer, might have to go to 120 main jet or thereabouts. Needle can't go any leaner but is probably fine -- you could shim it up though. No accelerator pumper connected, so you'll have to be smooth, EJ. No automotive-style CV carb to do your thinking for you. No choke too, possibly the existing choke cable could have a normal nubbin thing soldered onto it if that's an issue. If you really have a hassle starting it in very cold weather, you could put your hand up and `tickle' the carb -- manually pump the (disconnected) accelerator pump, squirting fuel into the intake. Works for me, I don't run a choke either.

Winner.

[Buddha#81]

Yeah ha........that sounds promising. You should be able to push the inlet (airbox) rubber back onto the airbox by the 10mm or so you need. Don't forget to try the air filter before you start changing the mixture, no point getting the jetting right just to fit a filter and stuffing up your mixtures!

[Choco]

EJ it LIVES!!!!
Just in time for winter too :pinch:

[FilthyLuka]

EJ, i think you owe Xerxes a cookie.

Just bolt a pod on, incase the tank flails agains. You can get one for like $15 from emgo... like this one ;)

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Parts-accessories/Performance/auction-151446124.htm?p=1

Bah, that ones too big, you need something like 48mm. Motomail will be able to sort you out with one.

[gijoe1313]

Just need to play around with a throttle cable since the original is too short to be used! Whack on an air filter, get it set right, reassemble all the bits and away she goes again!

Been blardy busy, will work on again when time permits!

[EJK]

Wow....

I owe you all alot

[Donor]

Last Wendys not withstanding, wait til you see my storage fee! :devil2:

[EJK]

When can I see the bike?

[Buddha#81]

What the farks going on..........ya on the road yet? UPDATE!!!!!!!!

[gijoe1313]

Just need to get the throttle cable sorted for the new carby and all tickety-boo!

[EJK]

What the farks going on..........ya on the road yet? UPDATE!!!!!!!!

I havn't even seen the bike in what... aaaages lol

[motorbyclist]

was it too long or too short?

[EJK]

Hes saying its gonna be 'custom' fit...

Dunno if its short or long... lol

[gijoe1313]

The original is too short and the one Xerxes gave is too long , taking the original in to get it sorted by a pro at the local bike shop (he does great work)

[EJK]

I'll take it. Whatever it costs...


well not too much

[gijoe1313]

Don't forget to throw 50 squiddies at Xerxes for his carby and bits! :msn-wink:

[EJK]

your ripping me off :weep: lol jks



KFC for everone! :D

[FROSTY]

Is this bloody bike going yet??

[xwhatsit]

Yeah! What happened with that cable? That's all it needs, right?

Maybe an air filter.

[EJK]

My part: I think I'll go for the pod filter. Foam filter hasn't arrived yet. I placed the order on Colemans Suzuki but they are not calling... :(

Justins part: He has the bike.

[deanohit]

Jeez mate, this is all taking a while huh?!

Shoulda just chucked a 400cc single in there!

[EJK]

Or a NEW BIKE!! SEE MY PROFILE PIC!!

[xwhatsit]

Or a NEW BIKE!! SEE MY PROFILE PIC!!
Prick, lol!

No it's all done, the hard work is done, just a few silly things left to do.

[deanohit]

Or a NEW BIKE!! SEE MY PROFILE PIC!!
Ok ya got me, I looked! <_<

[gijoe1313]

I was going to see if I could do the work on the cable meselfs, but after reading up some guff and threads here ... best to take to a pro :yes:

Just need to get the bike and gubbinz there and it will be tickety boo!

[EJK]

You have the bike. Preety much I can't do much... so that means you are in charge :yes:

[Squiggles]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Parts-accessories/Engine-drive-train/auction-155082873.htm

you have a second chance.

[motorbyclist]

a bit late isn't it?

[Squiggles]

Seeing as they havent finished with it and the cb250rs carb'll need a special setup for the throttle... whereas this was relatively bolt on.. i'd say its right on time

[EJK]

What do you think Justin?

[Hanne]

so... going yet?

[EJK]

Nope....... Hmmmm....

[Squiggles]

closer than before? or carb not sorted?

[EJK]

Selling now...