#6

[koba]

Great to see team Green/Shnanny up there.

Actually, just about to open a GP poll, what am I calling you lot?

You are going to need another bike for Cricket, he's outpacing B grade at a great rate! Not a bad issue to have!

[speedpro]

Here's hoping. Dave's bike is completely untouched from Edgecumbe and Gary's engine has a new balance shaft and bearing. I also took all the gearbox bearings out and found one that seemed to spin freely but with just a little resistance. I suspect one ball may not have been rotating freely possibly because of a bit of crap jamming it. Washed and cleaned but couldn't make it free so replaced. Also went up a couple of oversizes but sadly as usual ran out of time for planned mods. It should be making 23+hp as previously. Hopefully with a little drizzle at Tokoroa it'll keep making that for a whole race.
We compared Cricket's power to weight ratio with Gary's. We'd need 32hp for Gary to keep up, either that or Gary needs to lose a leg(or two).
Also, not bucket related but 2-stroke and of interest, I managed to have a look at a disassembled Martin jet pack V4. Very very nice with billet cases, billet crank and heads, and CR cylinders, flash forged pistons etc etc. Very cool bit of engineering. No photos obviously and I didn't even bother asking.

[Grumph]

There are pics of the MAV4 on the ESE thread. I got given a couple and gave them to Husa who also found some more.
yes, very nice - and as I've said elsewhere, RPM limited for airworthy certification. 5500 RPM I think.

[husaberg]

There are pics of the MAV4 on the ESE thread. I got given a couple and gave them to Husa who also found some more.
yes, very nice - and as I've said elsewhere, RPM limited for airworthy certification. 5500 RPM I think.

Pretty sure i never posted the inside pics for some reason.........
Same as the RSA ones..........

[Yow Ling]

There are pics of the MAV4 on the ESE thread. I got given a couple and gave them to Husa who also found some more.
yes, very nice - and as I've said elsewhere, RPM limited for airworthy certification. 5500 RPM I think.

I have heard that some of their engines had a 2 minute life, must have fixed it since

[speedpro]

Finally got a moment to write a small report on the GP. Pretty much a mission on both days. Gary's fresh engine was trying to seize on Saturday every time he backed off. Found my flash new gasket sealant doesn't much like fuel and where I used it to seal one set of surfaces on the reed valve it was now leaking. Fixed that but it was still trying. Dave D lent us a bigger pilot jet which seemed to help but the damage was done. Sat night we pulled it apart and the piston and cylinder were given a good sanding with emery tape. We fitted one size up main jet as well, as the plug was looking "clean". Put it back together on Sunday morning in the rain and off the guys went. Video attached of the Tokoroa Cup looking rearwards with Cricket riding. The bike seemed to be going OK but at the end he reckoned something happened and he pulled off the track and dumped it. We got it fixed for the GP and Gary did a number of laps. Dave's bike seemed to be going OK and he cut some pretty quick times on Saturday but come the race it was off and he was having difficulty getting out of corners so parked it.
As usual we had a good time camping. I was in bad at 8:11pm and it was still hard getting out of bed at 7am the next morning though once we'd had bacon and eggs and a coffee it was all good. Haven't looked at either bike yet. Seems to be a lack of enthusiasm plus I'm painting the inside of my garage at the moment.
I'll post the video later, got some problem getting it small enough to post.

Got a new modem and the connection is faster than ever. Uploaded a downsized vid but if it doesn't turn out good will upload an original size copy and let youtube sort it out.

http://youtu.be/KUy-0lpYjgo

[chrisc]

Good to have you lads at the GP as usual. Cricket looked like he was riding really strongly!
I was wondering what was wrong with the bike when I passed Dave and Gary... that's not exactly normal to me haha. I was going to ask if the engines felt any noticeably stronger in the wet but it doesn't sound like they were running right enough to gauge.

[kel]

Cricket looked like he was riding really strongly!
Wasn't he just, really smooth in the wet! The little bugger caused me to crash trying to keep up.
Dave was on fire in Saturday practice, he must be pleased to have set the lap record.

[speedpro]

Tokoroa Cup video uploaded here: http://youtu.be/KUy-0lpYjgo

[speedpro]

What an awesome weekend at Mt Wgtn.

F4 A-grade saw 2Ts place 1-4 in race 1 with Dave Manwell 2nd and Gary 3rd. Manwell was on a mission but Nathaniel held him out for the win. Race 2 looked to be shaping for a repeat. Dave put a move on Nathaniel in the sweeper but Nathanial wasn't having any of it and shut the door on Dave good & proper with the result that Dave lost a lot of ground and spent a moment on the grass. I was flagging and saw Nathaniel go past with no Dave in pursuit and thought the worst, but Dave flew on past a moment later. It seemed that Nathaniel could pull a length or 2 on the straight but Dave made it all back in the sweeper by carrying some serious speed all the way. Running clockwise, exiting the infield onto the back straight he had it sliding sideways. Pretty impressive to watch. Nathaniel was caught back up in a couple of laps and the pressure put back on. Possibly he succumbed to that pressure, but whatever, he slid off on the infield a few laps later and his race was over. Gary was having a good tussle of his own but managed to hang on for 2nd. So race 2 has 2Ts in places 1-3. When I heard Dave had set a new lap record I thought it must have been in the 2nd race given how he seemed to be riding to catch Nathaniel but the time was from race 1.

Those Aprilia chassis are pretty good. Anyone who has ridden Dave's one really likes it and of course Tim's 50 goes round corners pretty good as well. Both of them are superb riders of course. Gary had his MB flying but he was definitely pushing the limits of a stock MB chassis even if it now has RS125 running gear. One moment exiting the back straight had him pull over to check the front wheel wasn't loose or jamming on something. The likely problem was that he was slightly off his usual line and ran over ripples which caused a bit of an upset.

Cricket was the only 2T in F4 B-grade riding Gary's MB100. He had a handy power-weight ratio and used it to advantage. Having said that he does seem to like diving up the inside of other riders at the end of the sweeper. He placed a fairly handy 5th in both races.

Gary had the camera on for the points races so hopefully we'll have video to post later.

No changes to either bike since Tokoroa. In fact they were put in the shed after Tok' and pulled out for this weekend. They are now back in the shed and will probably only get looked at when we pull them out for the next meeting, unless the new billet watercooled heads turn up. Really looking forward to getting hold of them as both bikes fade badly after a couple of laps at the moment.

[mr bucketracer]

good stuff ! dave is riding well as normal

[speedpro]

Got a video going here http://youtu.be/wT4Oa5fBMqk

From the last practice day looking out the back of #3 with Gary riding. 1st race on full circuit going clockwise and then the next race on the oval.

[speedpro]

Mr Wgtn 10/5 was a near perfect bucker racing day. Gary's bike seemed to be running pretty good despite just being put in the shed after the last meeting, again, and then being dragged out for this one. We were even using fuel he syphoned from Dave's bike from last meeting. The first little problem was a broken clutch cable which is probably a lesson about maintenance. Gary had a spare but the inner was too long to use. I fixed that by tying a knot in the inner where it extended to the engine. Bit ugly but it worked.

Then it stopped half way down the front straight. Pulled Gary's flash new Platinum plug, a B8HIEX or something, to find a nice new coat of aluminium. Fitted a new B9 and found the motor still had compression. Fired it up and it seemed OK but Gary had organised a ride on Blair's FXR. Cricket took it out and was a little cautious with an obviously damaged motor but when he did give it stick it seemed to still have pace. Only trouble is he didn't give it stick often enough and finished near the back of the field.

Expectation is a crater in the middle of the piston crown caused by a too hot plug. Time for a new piston and probably a way big pilot jet as I have bought a small range to try after suspicion that being lean on closed throttle was causing seizures. Hopefully it should then be all good as we seem to have sorted a small pile of problems.

I have also made some progress with the FZR twin. The exhaust manifold is fully welded, except one pipe which I need to fit up and confirm the turbo location. It's just tacked at the moment. Paid Kevin the kart guy to weld it and I must say he's done an awesome job. If anyone is looking for stuff to be done he is a tool maker by trade, has all the tools and is an all round good guy, and not bad at building stuff. Last thing to sort is oil and water to/from the turbo.

[speedpro]

Turbo exhaust manifold nearly finished, just need to weld the final join before the turbo flange. You can see in the photos the TIG welding that Kevin has done. The Lambda sensor flange to the end can is particularly sexy welding. Turbo fits in exactly where I wanted it. I need to make oil lines in & out which shouldn't be a problem as the FZR has a banjo fitting at the front of the cases for the oil line to the head so I'll just double it up.

[speedpro]

Last four photos.

[Moooools]

Turbo exhaust manifold nearly finished, just need to weld the final join before the turbo flange. You can see in the photos the TIG welding that Kevin has done. The Lambda sensor flange to the end can is particularly sexy welding. Turbo fits in exactly where I wanted it. I need to make oil lines in & out which shouldn't be a problem as the FZR has a banjo fitting at the front of the cases for the oil line to the head so I'll just double it up.

What is with the exhaust plenum?

I am by no means well versed with turbo setups, but all of the 450cc single cylinder turbos in FSAE are keeping their headers very short to capture the pulse energy of the exhaust stream.

Is there more to be gained by smoothing out the pulses?

Looks cool though. I can't wait to see some hp numbers.

[speedpro]

Loads of theories but little hard data. The twin has an odd firing interval. I just thought about evening out the exhaust backpressure between cylinders. Otherwise I would have gone for low volume direct piping. It will be wrapped if it works at all

[husaberg]

Loads of theories but little hard data. The twin has an odd firing interval. I just thought about evening out the exhaust backpressure between cylinders. Otherwise I would have gone for low volume direct piping. It will be wrapped if it works at all

I had a look and came up with more power longer runner but less response. It seemed pretty universal?
I was rather intrigued at the latest factory Mazda turbo stuff.
http://www.enginebasics.com/Advanced%20Engine%20Tuning/turbo%20manifold%20design.html
http://www.enginebasics.com/Advanced%20Engine%20Tuning/Short%20Vs%20Long%20Tube%20Headers.html

[Grumph]

Loads of theories but little hard data. The twin has an odd firing interval. I just thought about evening out the exhaust backpressure between cylinders. Otherwise I would have gone for low volume direct piping. It will be wrapped if it works at all

I wouldn't have bothered. The only time I'd worry is with a 120deg three where you could possibly have two cylinder exhaust valves open at the same time.
I recently had a turbo'd ZX1400 here which had been getting pressure spikes in the exhaust between the head and turbo, sufficient to open exhaust valves...damage visible on the valve tips. apparently it's common on Subarus cos of the manifolding layout. i'd think your plenum would rule out odd pressure spikes anyway.

[speedpro]

Exhaust manifold is bolted to engine, turbo is test fitted to check orientation, oil feed line is bought and all the fittings and double banjo bolt, need to refit wastegate actuator or find some other way of keeping the bypass port closed, assemble oil hose and fit drain. Last thing to fabricate is the drain return fitting back to the crankcase. I'm hoping to fire it up this weekend with the turbo.

I am unsure how to configure the Ecotrons EFI. Typically a NA engine uses the MAP sensor output to determine fuel requirement at lesser revs and load, and switches to TPS sensor at large throttle settings and revs. With a turbo though I don't think that will be satisfactory as the intake pressure will vary greatly without moving the throttle as the turbo spools up. Presuming of course that it works at all. I've asked Ecotrons for some guidance. To date with the engine being NA I've had it using the VE table below 98% throttle which seemed to work OK.

The MAP sensor fluctuations are also used to determine which cylinder is on which stroke. This saves having a cam angle sensor. I have a bit of concern for the sensor response time and how it will work at the higher revs. I have a sneaking suspicion it's going to be a problem.

I've just downloaded the latest version of their tuning software - ProCal. They have finally got it so changes you make to the screen gauges, range and divisions etc, are saved. Was a real pain having to reset them every time.

[jasonu]

Exhaust manifold is bolted to engine, turbo is test fitted to check orientation, oil feed line is bought and all the fittings and double banjo bolt, need to refit wastegate actuator or find some other way of keeping the bypass port closed, assemble oil hose and fit drain. Last thing to fabricate is the drain return fitting back to the crankcase. I'm hoping to fire it up this weekend with the turbo.

I am unsure how to configure the Ecotrons EFI. Typically a NA engine uses the MAP sensor output to determine fuel requirement at lesser revs and load, and switches to TPS sensor at large throttle settings and revs. With a turbo though I don't think that will be satisfactory as the intake pressure will vary greatly without moving the throttle as the turbo spools up. Presuming of course that it works at all. I've asked Ecotrons for some guidance. To date with the engine being NA I've had it using the VE table below 98% throttle which seemed to work OK.

The MAP sensor fluctuations are also used to determine which cylinder is on which stroke. This saves having a cam angle sensor. I have a bit of concern for the sensor response time and how it will work at the higher revs. I have a sneaking suspicion it's going to be a problem.

I've just downloaded the latest version of their tuning software - ProCal. They have finally got it so changes you make to the screen gauges, range and divisions etc, are saved. Was a real pain having to reset them every time.

Make sure you video and post the first start up.

[speedpro]

Make sure you video and post the first start up.

Maybe the 2nd one, supposing we ever get a first of course

[speedpro]

We did record the first attempts to start the bike with the turbo. It was a bit reluctant to pick up initially, with even full throttle not making any difference. It just ran at a fast idle. After a push down the drive though it seemed to sort out whatever the problem was and ran pretty well. Throttle response is good, better once warm, and I'm pretty happy.

Initial start will be here once it's uploaded, probably about 7:30pm and the 2nd video of it running a bit better will be there as well

http://youtu.be/mmWIs_g4xTc

[Sketchy_Racer]

You've got the video set as private Mike, now i'm just extra curious to see it run!

[speedpro]

sorted....

[Sketchy_Racer]

Sounds like it runs pretty good for a first start. Have you got the intake all plumbed up or is the turbo outlet venting at the moment?

[speedpro]

It's completely together, no gaps. The thing is that I have had it running with the turbo intake manifold for a while and have done all the tuning with that in place. The standard 1BAR MAP sensor is still in place and still measuring intake manifold pressure. All the maps for the ECU are still the same. The only difference is that there is now a turbine on the exhaust side and a compressor on the intake side. The fuel requirements at various manifold pressure values has not changed and neither have the maps. Hence it runs pretty good from the start.
When I install the 2.5BAR MAP sensor I will have to reconfigure all the tables to extend the range of MAP values from 1050mBAR to probably 1500mBAR for a start. The existing values will have to be fitted into the new extended table to fill in the values up to 1050mBAR and then I should only have to tune from there up, supposing it actually makes boost.

2nd video is here https://youtu.be/zTZsJOMdqbw

[jasonu]

It's completely together, no gaps. The thing is that I have had it running with the turbo intake manifold for a while and have done all the tuning with that in place. The standard 1BAR MAP sensor is still in place and still measuring intake manifold pressure. All the maps for the ECU are still the same. The only difference is that there is now a turbine on the exhaust side and a compressor on the intake side. The fuel requirements at various manifold pressure values has not changed and neither have the maps. Hence it runs pretty good from the start.
When I install the 2.5BAR MAP sensor I will have to reconfigure all the tables to extend the range of MAP values from 1050mBAR to probably 1500mBAR for a start. The existing values will have to be fitted into the new extended table to fill in the values up to 1050mBAR and then I should only have to tune from there up, supposing it actually makes boost.

2nd video is here https://youtu.be/zTZsJOMdqbw

I don't understand any of that so I am going to put in a protest...

[koba]

That sounds really cool!

Reeeevs!

[speedpro]

The camera does not do the sound justice. I was only revving it to about 13,000 but have had it to 16,000 on the dyno and the track before I put the turbo on. Actually with the carbs and GSXR250 ignition it pulled an indicated 19,000rpm on the dyno. Just had 2 straight pipes on it. The sound gives me shivers. Turns out Ecotrons lied to me when I asked them specifically about being able to rev to 19,000 before I bought the Ecotrons kit. I had to get a software mod to allow 16,000. They tell me now that I can rev beyond 16,000 but the tables cannot be configured so it uses the last values, in the 16,000rpm field, and supposedly will rev on. I'm not so sure as I get different stories with every call to their support people. Other than that they have been very helpful with requested changes. I had the lambda feedback disabled as it was messing with my tuning. It would have been OK if I could ride it around at various speeds and enabled auto-tuning, but not on the dyno. Same as idle control using the ignition advance. That made setting up the lower speeds a nightmare as the advance swung back and forth.

I've bumped into a very friendly mechanic/engineer/tuner who has a spare dyno chassis plus all the bits. He already has one up and running and seems keen for me to assemble the spare and initially use a huge disc brake to load it up, all wired up to load sensors, and later to fit an absorber and have it computer controlled. I'll probably make a start this weekend as I really need to have this loaded up and held at certain speeds and load to further tune. I am only interested in the lambda at the moment. Once I get that sorted I'll do a few proper runs and adjust ignition.

[Askor]

Awesome bit of work right there.

I have two questions:
-How much power do you think it will make when you've finished tuning it
-How are you going to reduce it to 100cc? Bore or stroke? (Assuming youre still going to run it in buckets)

[speedpro]

Awesome bit of work right there.

I have two questions:
-How much power do you think it will make when you've finished tuning it
-How are you going to reduce it to 100cc? Bore or stroke? (Assuming youre still going to run it in buckets)

No idea of power, probably not much. If it makes 20hp I'll be happy.
It's going to be magically destroked to make it 100cc<cough> :shifty:

[speedpro]

In the ESE thread there was mention of a Hypocyclic mechanism. There are a few animations on the web I've found and one small motor running. It seems that there would be advantages, but then again, nobody seems to have built a useful engine using the principle. The way I see it you would use a plain bearing bottom end separated from the working cylinder allowing high reliable revving. Over that you could have a pretty much standard piston/port/cylinder arrangement, or you could go nuts with forced induction either direct or via the under-piston cavity(formerly the crankcase). As the rod to the piston only ever moves vertically there would be no piston side thrust which would reduce lubrication requirements due to lower or practically zero forces on the piston. The rings would still be in contact so I suppose some lubricant would be required. The ring lubrication might be able to be supplied by the fuel.

Does anyone have any links or any idea why it doesn't get used?

Animation here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvbFuw7mY74

[husaberg]

In the ESE thread there was mention of a Hypocyclic mechanism. There are a few animations on the web I've found and one small motor running. It seems that there would be advantages, but then again, nobody seems to have built a useful engine using the principle. The way I see it you would use a plain bearing bottom end separated from the working cylinder allowing high reliable revving. Over that you could have a pretty much standard piston/port/cylinder arrangement, or you could go nuts with forced induction either direct or via the under-piston cavity(formerly the crankcase). As the rod to the piston only ever moves vertically there would be no piston side thrust which would reduce lubrication requirements due to lower or practically zero forces on the piston. The rings would still be in contact so I suppose some lubricant would be required. The ring lubrication might be able to be supplied by the fuel.

Does anyone have any links or any idea why it doesn't get used?

Animation here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvbFuw7mY74

If you added a separate chamber outside of the engine you could control the size of the crankcase and also its primary compression. Likely with a bellows possibly augmented by ex pressure.

You could then also pick what ever delivery ratio actually suited the revs you were using at the time.
You will find also at high revs blowdown is not necessarily just measured in time or degrees, but in time or degrees above the transfer pressure.

Remember the biggest problem in the sixties was they had to keep shortening the transfer duration to stop the mixture flowing out the ex, we have exhaust valves now so this need not be much of an issue.
In the 60's also as the revs went up over peak the small area transfers could not flow enough. The other problem was as the crankcase was made smaller cooling and lubrication of the big end and flow into transfers suffered.
In case you are worried that the pipe might not be able to handle huge variations in revs I had a few minutes play today and came up with this.
Don't panic about the silly EX durations I used it was just a quick concept check. to see if the pipe could be made to work over a wide range just by ex duration manipulation.

312755

This I think is how the Ryger works.
17000 i think is possible with a std crank plain bearings as the MX250s are doing 14000 is on conventional set ups with a 53mm stroke So if you can have the transfer high enough in pressure and have a large degree of control over a wide range of ex durations. I don't think it actually needs a funny bottom end.

Anyway the funny one looks pretty cool with its contra rotation and kind of reminds me of the wankels shaft and planetary.

[speedpro]

Been busy. Was talking to Kevin at Motorcad about my FZR and needing a brake-dyno and he goes "Have that one". That one turned out to be a steel frame,shaft, bearings, and a bunch of other minor stuff. John Connor donated the piece of round steel that has become the roller. We cut 2 steel discs which were welded into each end of the steel tube, and fitted a hefty piece of steel tube between into which has been fitted taperlocks to attach to the shaft. You see the end of the drum in one of the photos.
Initially I just want to run it up against the brake and sort out the Lambda. Not shown in the photos is a big flywheel that fits to the shaft that extends outside the frame. It'll help smooth out fluctuations. Kevin has a water brake as well but he doesn't seem keen on using it but it could be chain driven off the shaft in place of the flywheel. A bit later we are going to fit an eddy current brake and hook it al up to a computer to control it all. We're going to chuck the whole assembly in the lathe tomorrow to tru it all up. Checked it last thing tonight and the drum only runs out about .2-.3mm assembled onto the shaft so pretty happy with that. Got the essentially brand new 320mm disc out of the bin and Kev had the calliper just lying around. The brake torque arm is going to end up on a load cell to measure brake torque. The shaft will be mounted below the frame. It's just on top while we check a few things.
I love building stuff.

[Grumph]

Many years ago I was going to build a dyno using HQ disc and caliper. A local guy here had a rolling road for car setup which used two HQ disc/caliper setups with a hand controlled load cell. which wasn't really fast enough acting...However, he'd done the calcs and reckoned a single HQ caliper on the stock ventilated disc would easily handle 150HP without additional cooling. I had it about half built then got crook/broke/lost interest...
I've used both inertia and applied load dynos and if I ever did it again I'd go for the variable load type as IMO you can learn more from the ability to hold a load for a period.

[F5 Dave]

Golly, I don't know much about cars, (I did own one briefly in 1987 I think), but they don't care much about un-sprung mass do they?

[speedpro]

Slow progress on the dyno, just making brackets and clamps and stuff.

1st round today at Mt Wgtn. Dave slid off when he got caught out by old cold tyres being even slipperier than he thought, but no damage and just in a practice. Cricket also slid off Gary's MB in the prelim race. No damage except to his confidence. His 1st points race was a cautious affair but the 2nd he was back into it and managed a 5th or 6th I think. Dave scored 2 1st places riding like a demon but looking very smooth. Gary was flying as well but exercising a little caution, something about having to work for a living. Didn't catch the placing but up with the fast crowd. I'll mention him only because he parked his bike next to Team Shnanny - Blair, recently promoted from "B" grade was flying on his FXR and also was right in amongst the fast guys.

Only annoying thing was getting home and my son remembering to tell me the guy who had his van parked next to my car had a door bang the rear quarter. Cricket noticed it and the guy closed his door but didn't bother saying anything. Nice little ding in the rear fender. This car is like a magnet for this shit.

[TZ350]

Love that dyno, great to see the Team Shanny bike at the very pointy end.

[Henk]

Track was scary cold today, usual reasonably cautious out lap pace was giving me front end slides through the horseshoe both points races. Ok when the tyres warmed up a bit but still a few slides and nothing like fast times for the day.

[speedpro]

Love that dyno, great to see the Team Shanny bike at the very pointy end.

It's all Dave. That chassis is pretty good as well. Honestly the motor is not that flash at all though there's a good chance the Wobbly MB top end will end up on it shortly and that is special. Dave got it down to high 29s for a few laps.

[speedpro]

I'll just do a couple of dyno runs I thought to myself, just to check and maybe drop a jet size. 5th run and it went pop and went off. Every time I pulled the clutch in it stopped. Had a check of all the usual things but nothing obvious. Opened it up and something had been rattling round in the squish. Finally found this, damn.

[husaberg]

[R RATED]https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/c1/72/96/c172964a784e356f56090a08b72a8f9d.jpg[/R RATED]
Mag side.

[speedpro]

Full rebuild later, crank, rod, all bearings, new piston & rings and it's running sweet. Except that it stopped twice with Gary riding it. Fired it up for the next race with Cricket on it and no problems. In fact he got a pretty convincing couple of 2nd places. Pretty sure I know what and where the problem is and it will need torque plates for the next hone to fix it. I noticed a slight tightening at the bottom of the piston travel as I was prepping to assemble the engine. It was OK with the piston rotated 90 degrees so the way we have been holding the cylinder for honing isn't working. We tried a size bigger main and pilot prior to Gary's 2nd ride but it still slowed up suddenly at the end of the straight.

[speedpro]

Bit of a change of topic now.

I've been thinking about internal combustion engines and how they might be compromised by their mechanical architecture, being they have a crankshaft with a rod connecting to the piston. The piston reciprocates as the crank rotates. With an infinitely long conrod the piston velocity will vary sinusoidaly as the crank rotates. As the rods are a bit shorter than that the piston velocity varies at a modified sinusoidal rate. Over time we have optimised the combustion as best we can to extract as much power from the combustion as possible given the mechanical constraints of the piston rate of velocity change as the crank rotates.

My question is - "If" an engine could be built that could have any piston velocity change at any point of crankshaft rotation, what rate of change in velocity would be the best to extract the most from the combustion, firstly if we retained the current combustion chamber profiles with the current burn rates etc? If, as I suspect, that combustion chamber profile is a compromise to achieve a burn rate that best works with the current crank/rod/piston compromise, what then would be the ideal combustion chamber profile to achieve the ideal extraction of power from the combustion process, if we weren't restricted to the piston velocity profile but could in fact make it anything we wanted? As now I see it being speed dependant.

[speedpro]

Finally got a solid afternoon's work done on the dyno. Still plenty to do. I left it all together in Kevin's workshop, hopefully it won't be too much in the way. It makes a good table at least. Next job will be a pedestal to mount the brake lever on and somewhere to put the laptop.

[F5 Dave]

Looks fairly sturdy.

[speedpro]

Talking of sturdy, check out the new twin plug head

[husaberg]

Talking of sturdy, check out the new twin plug head

It appears you have gone with the rarely used at the bottom of the cylinder option as well.

[speedpro]

Been preparing to do a bit of work on the motor Dave is using. Measured the squish before taking it apart and the head was a bit off forward and to one side as the squish was slightly uneven. Took the head off and it's all looking pretty good. This is after a lot of racing and as can be seen there is the slightest "crescent moon" shaped shadow of carbon on the squish at the front which isn't surprising considering the measured clearance. Otherwise the squish clearance seems to be on the money with no carbon but also no sign of contact in the squish area. Going to put the watercooled head on for the 2-hour. Done a test and it looks like the little lead acid battery shouldn't have any problem powering the pump through the race. Dave said the aircooled motor lost a lot of power once it warmed up and we know from the good motor that this head keeps the power throughout any race.
316821316822

[speedpro]

Test fitted the watercooled head and found the squish is tight and also the wrong angle for the pistons I'm now using. The tightest part of the squish band is about 4-5mm in from the edge of the bore. There is also a large radius from the squish into the bowl. Looking over it with Kevin and he drags out a tool he has with the curvature of the piston ground into the end so it's just a matter of clocking up the aircooled head and checking the depth from the gasket face to the squish and then duplicating that in the watercooled head, but this time with a curve to match the top of the piston. It'll be real easy with the tool, you just mount it straight in the holder, bump it against the gasket surface and "0" the digital readout, move it over to the correct distance from the centre for the size bore, and then plunge cut to the depth measured on the aircooled head. End result will be a bit more modern cut to the squish/bowl boundary and hopefully an exactly right squish clearance.

I've been thinking about the Ryger and a few things Frits has said and I'm keen to make a new bathtub style chamber cylinder head but with 2 plugs. I think it will be possible to reduce the squish area as with 2 ignition sources within the cylinder the flame front should consume the fuel/air sooner and reduce the risk of detonation, without the need for the squish induced swirl to promote flame travel so much. Should also be able to back the timing off a notch as well. Still got a few other things to sort first, like the 2 hour bikes and the dyno.

I forked out for 4m of flexible brake hose last weekend and have more or less finished the master cylinder and brake lever box. Just need a rose joint and a pushrod and she'll be ready to assemble and bleed.

[F5 Dave]

Twin sparks are (were) often used in 500cc desert racers to stave off deto at tall gearing and sand exacerbated. Not sure they will do much good in a 54mm bore.

See what I did there?

[TZ350]

Twin sparks ... Not sure they will do much good in a 54mm bore. See what I did there?

Good idea, :D fit an NSR cylinder to the de stroked MB 100.

[speedpro]

I have a NSR cylinder on my bench

[TZ350]

I have a NSR cylinder on my bench

316933

NSR/MB100 conversion .... Excellent.

[F5 Dave]

I have an NSR cylinder under my bench. For the last 20 years. Its an ornament only.

[jasonu]

I have an NSR cylinder under my bench. For the last 20 years. Its an ornament only.

You could glue those titanium surgical implants to it...

[speedpro]

Couple of videos from the 40 lap race last weekend

https://youtu.be/yFdCjRNfQRc

https://youtu.be/o8CBw78mck4

The gear pedal bolt fell out so I removed the whole link. The bike did part 2 stuck in third.

[speedpro]

Back to 4T twins. I've had it running OK without the turbo but have now fitted the turbo and now the 2.5 bar MAP sensor. Thought I'd set the EFI system up properly instead of a few hacks I've tried. It got harder to start and with the WB Lambda sensor system installed it was showing lean generally and wouldn't go over 10,000rpm without falling flat due to leanness. I spent quite a bit of time messing with the tables and had tipped in quite a bit more fuel without effect, I was thinking maybe I was running up against a limit of the fuel supply system. In the end I checked how much the fuel line expanded when the fuel pump was run and thought it wasn't as much as when it was new. We fired it up and I found by squeezing the return line closed I could increase the fuel to the engine. Turns out the fuel regulator is no good now. I could freely blow through it in both directions. When I dismantled it I found an O-ring that seems to have been caught on the edge of an internal fuel gallery. Rob is going to lend me one tomorrow and I'll be back into it. Currently it's on John Connor's dyno where it will stay until the starting is all sorted and we can run it up, after which I will transfer it to the brake dyno I've made. We don't have any power measuring system yet but the brake is all fitted and works good and will allow set loads and rpm to be held and adjustments made to fuel/lambda.

[speedpro]

Now I'm seriously wondering how long there has been a fuel supply problem. Over time I have gone from 80g to 128g injectors and the VE table had some oddly large numbers in it to make it run. I now suspect that for over a year I may have had sagging fuel supply pressure. Rob helped me out with a spare pump and we dismantled my regulator and put in a new O-ring. Turned out his spare regulator had a similar problem in that you could simply blow through it. He also lent me a "Y" piece and I have now plumbed in a pressure gauge. The bike starts and runs easy now but the fuel pressure is only 25psi when it should be about double that. Rob lent a me a new regulator and I will try that first. Even with 25psi, at low load the mixture is rich with the injector on minimum so it looks like I may need to go back to the 80g injectors.
And . . . something happened to the ECU. After trying to load a new VE table it failed and the fuel pump only blips when you power it up instead of running for a few seconds. I tried flashing it with a fresh copy of software but it failed the first time then worked the 2nd time. I then tried to load the last configuration which failed again, and then it was back to the pump just blipping when the system was powered up. I'm going to connect a car battery and try again just to make sure the supply is good later today.

[speedpro]

Spent some useful time on the dyno today. Had a few bits from Rob to test first. My fuel pressure regulator was good for 25psi, less than 300kpa. I squeezed the return line and the pressure jumped to 40+psi. Fitted Robs spare and had 42psi fuel pressure and it held pressure after the pump stopped. My regulator I found I could simply blow through again so the new o-ring was only a temp fix. With the added fuel pressure I figured I would need to re-install the 80g injectors so went ahead and did that. Only trouble is that the last time I had the throttle bodies off there wasn't a turbo fitted, and of course to get to one screw the turbo was in the way. Luckily I had my "Z1 float bowl removing cut down Philips screwdriver" with me and in conjunction with removing the turbo intake manifold managed to get to the screw. Fitted 80g injectors, flashed ECU, loaded fresh ".cal" file, made necessary alterations, and tried to start the bike. Not a sausage, not one, no sausages. No injector pulse width displayed. The fuel pump started every time the motor was turned so I figured it was seeing the crank trigger. That left the MAP sensor which is used to determine which cylinder is where in the cycle and therefore which one to fire the injector or ignition. I replaced the 2.5bar MAP sensor with the 1bar MAP sensor and reprogrammed the system for it. As soon as it turned it fired and was away. Over a couple of runs I took more and more fuel out of the VE map until it would run clean. I have it set to use the VE map up to 98% throttle.

Finally I did a couple of runs through the gears. With the turbo blowing air into the manifold it is a different beast. Rather than being a bit strangled by the restriction of the manifold inlet, it hauls through the gears and keeps pushing to the limit of the 1 bar MAP sensor and clearly wants to keep going. It also now revs clean to 16,000rpm or around there. Even over the motor you can hear the turbo spool up and the bike gets a lot more angry sounding.

Only 2 years of spare time chasing my tail with what was probably weak fuel pressure. Might run it again tomorrow and get Cricket to make a video.

[speedpro]

Another session on the dyno. Fired straight up without a problem and idled away. Still had too much fuel, according to the lambda gauge so took even more out. At idle now even with the 80g injectors it runs lean with minimum pulsewidth. I've even reduced the minimum below the recommended 2mS to only 1.4mS. It seems to be OK, just a bit rich. Even at higher revs it remains rich just a bit. I recorded the runs so I can go over all system parameters later. I like this ability of recording and going back. I presume all engine management systems do it. After starting today I noted it was a bit rich all over so I did a blanket reduction of the VE table values, saved the table and then imported it to Procal the tuning software. The VE table is run in the ECU memory and changes don't need to be uploaded to be effective during a run. Pretty sweet being able to make a change to 40-50 values and just carry on within say 1 minute.

Video will be here once it's uploaded: https://youtu.be/MrFJk0wEZKE

[Sketchy_Racer]

Awesome work Mike!

What boost are you seeing and when do you think you'll spill the beans in terms of power??

[speedpro]

No boost at all. I had to revert to the 1bar MAP sensor as I think a backfire broke the 2.5 bar sensor. I get no reading from that one at all now. The runs were up to about 90% throttle dropping back to about 35% throttle to stop the manifold pressure exceeding 1bar or atmospheric pressure. It definitely wants to get on with it which is good. I was a bit worried that I wouldn't get any boost with such a little engine, only 100cc and all :whistle: :killingme:
Still lots to do of course. Must get an air filter on it before it sucks in something it shouldn't and the exhaust needs to be a bit more than 50mm(2", for the metrically challenged) out of the turbo

[TZ350]

Another session on the dyno. Video uploaded: https://youtu.be/MrFJk0wEZKE

Great sound ...... :clap: looking forward to hearing it with big boost.

[speedpro]

A run on the brake dyno I'm building just a run through the revs and then 12,000rpm against the brake with 1bar(atmospheric) manifold pressure.

https://youtu.be/_5HMp6co4EA

[speedpro]

I need a Ecotrons 2.5bar map senzor. I will buy one from them but thought I'd ask first if anyone has one spare? Failing that I will be putting in an order with Ecotrons si if anyone wants anything let me know and I can in lude it to share postage

[Sketchy_Racer]

I need a Ecotrons 2.5bar map senzor. I will buy one from them but thought I'd ask first if anyone has one spare? Failing that I will be putting in an order with Ecotrons si if anyone wants anything let me know and I can in lude it to share postage

I've got one, PM your address and I'll send it up.

[speedpro]

Bit of time on the track today. Revs out nicely though only to 16,000rpm due to ECU limitation. Makes boost from about 10,000rpm though that was found out on the rolling road. It's sweet to ride and very tractable but does lack power. On John's dyno it was only making about 10-11hp but we put it back on the rolling road after that and autotuned the fuel a bit more. It needed a firmer push on the brake lever to hold it back so ended up making a bit more power but I can't say how much. As per my comments in the Ecotrons thread the throttle response is near perfect. It would actually make a nice road bike. The noise is very mellow with the turbo and it hardly drew any attention at all when riding. Had the knee down exiting the sweeper so it must have been getting out of the hairpin sort of OK. The brakes have been soaked in oil from a leaky fork seal so are a bit wimpy so I was being very cautious around other riders. Very happy with the ride today. Back to the rolling road for more tweaking.

I have adjusted the ALM(Lambda) to match what the ECU is expecting at Lambda=1 which is 1.2V. Next time I will autotune to the drivers desired Lambda which is .83 at higher revs and loads which bring the power up a bit more.

Still got a few issues with the ECU as per the Ecotrons thread, if anyone has an answer to the problems let me know.

[speedpro]

Finally got in and did some motorbike maintenance. Replaced the fork seals which were knackered. The stanchions are pitted pretty bad. One in particular had a bubble in the chrome which I started stoning down but it flaked off leaving a sharp edged pit. I stoned it back until it was feathered and then went over it more with 1200 Wet& Dry and WD40. It came out pretty good but either the forks need replacing or rechroming. Anyone with spare 38mm FZR 250 or even maybe 400 forks send me a PM. Failing that I'll need to sort rechroming. Got a 14T front sprocket as well, 1 less than I have used which was 1 lees than stock. I still want a big back sprocket probably go for a 60T if I can find one. I'll definitely have to start with a blank as I just can't find one for the FZR.

[speedpro]

In case someone else is looking to cut a couple of cylinders off a FZR this photo gives a pretty good idea where I cut mine.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=276236&d=1358048476

[Grumph]

In case someone else is looking to cut a couple of cylinders off a FZR this photo gives a pretty good idea where I cut mine.


Did you cut the cases too ?

[husaberg]

Did you cut the cases too ?

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/68694-6?p=1130631005#post1130631005
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/68694-6?p=1130461141#post1130461141
320690320691320692320693

[speedpro]

The cases are so light it wasn't worth the trouble, + the oil pump and waterpump are stacked on a jackshaft on the left so they would have remained sticking out. The pump outlet pipe is currently the leftmost piece of the engine, and is nicely damaged after I was knocked off. Keeping the right side, where the cylinders are, allowed me to retain the generator. It is bigger and heavier than needed but saved a lot of mucking round. I did however cut the crankshaft just leaving a machined boss outside of the main bearing to the left of the camchain. It's easy enough to do and simple to block the oil galleries.

[speedpro]

You'll notice the camshafts have been flipped over as the locating discs are now on the right. Happily Mr Yamaha put suitable slots in both sides of the head and the lobes are symmetrical so it doesn't matter which way the cams rotate. It did my head in trying to figure if it was possible considering lobe sequences and then the cam timing as you can't use the marks to line it up.

[Grumph]

You'll notice the camshafts have been flipped over as the locating discs are now on the right. Happily Mr Yamaha put suitable slots in both sides of the head and the lobes are symmetrical so it doesn't matter which way the cams rotate. It did my head in trying to figure if it was possible considering lobe sequences and then the cam timing as you can't use the marks to line it up.

Ha - mirror image. Firing order doesn't matter if you've got a crank triggered ignition firing every revolution.
More than once i confess I've timed up VFR400's wrong - doesn't matter, just turns them into a big bang motor, LOL

Thanks. food for thought.

[TZ350]

Cam re timing can be pretty easy, particularly with cam timing overlap that is symmetrical at TDC. Simply rock the piston at TDC and the cams should rock the valves evenly back and forth between the inlet and exhaust valve.

320694

Commonly the center of the overlap is dead on TDC, in real race engines this may not be strictly true but will be usefully close for positioning the cams.

[husaberg]

You'll notice the camshafts have been flipped over as the locating discs are now on the right. Happily Mr Yamaha put suitable slots in both sides of the head and the lobes are symmetrical so it doesn't matter which way the cams rotate. It did my head in trying to figure if it was possible considering lobe sequences and then the cam timing as you can't use the marks to line it up.

I can't remember for sure but I think the earlier (2kr) and later (3ln) cams have different cams and timing. The carbs on one model are bigger as well (3ln I think)

[speedpro]

IIRC the 2KR & 3LN cams are the same lobe height. I couldn't tell you which ones I ended up using as I had boxes of bits and just used whatever came to hand. Primarily the 3LN has 2mm longer rods but 2mm shorter pistons. The 3LN also has a different sump with the oil filter now a cartridge mounted to the left side. The sumps are interchangeable. The longer rods must have allowed the higher redline. Max power was at 14,000 I think but they revved to 18,500. We saw 19,000 on the tacho on the dyno early on but I suspect that was more likely only 17,000rpm or so.

[husaberg]

IIRC the 2KR & 3LN cams are the same lobe height. I couldn't tell you which ones I ended up using as I had boxes of bits and just used whatever came to hand. Primarily the 3LN has 2mm longer rods but 2mm shorter pistons. The 3LN also has a different sump with the oil filter now a cartridge mounted to the left side. The sumps are interchangeable. The longer rods must have allowed the higher redline. Max power was at 14,000 I think but they revved to 18,500. We saw 19,000 on the tacho on the dyno early on but I suspect that was more likely only 17,000rpm or so.

http://www.fzrarchives.com/ipb/index.php?showtopic=52575&pid=445103&mode=threaded&show=&st=0


From what I found on the net The first 3ln gave its claimed output I think at about 2000rpm higher 16000RPM vs the earlier 2kr and the later 3ln models
But that only what they claimed, they changed the 250 class rules at one stage to 40HP rather than 45HP (Again this is only claimed outputs)
My thoughts are by rights would be that the first model Exup equipped 3ln should have the more racy cam timing.than the later 40HP models
Then they went back to the same 2KR cams
These post kind of fits my theory.
http://www.fzrarchives.com/ipb/index.php?showtopic=58568
http://my-x15.net/FZR_INFO.html
320698

Carbs
2KRs are 26mm BDST26
3LNs are 28mm BDST28
http://2fiftycc.com/index.php?threads/fzr250-2kr-3ln-carbs-interchange.8271/

Pretty sure all the specs are on the FZR250.com page

[speedpro]

Jeez it's been a while.

So little time now with work but starting to get interested again. As well as it ran before, but with not much power and limited revs, combined with niggles with the Ecotrons system, I've bitten the bullet and bought a Link G4+ Atom ECU. I had a good talk to the local guys down south who are confident it'll be good for 20,000rpm which is a few more than I ever intend. Now the fun begins all over. I need a 6T trigger disc on the crank and a 1T trigger disc on a cam, plus I need to fit new inlet temp, water temp, MAP sensor, crank and cam sensors, etc etc. I've also pretty much decided to keep the Ecotrons throttle bodies but remove the throttles and run a separate throttle body between the turbo and plenum, probably about 28mm, with the TPS on it. the idea is to use the Ecotrons injectors and fuel rail but possibly add overhead injectors and run a staged setup for higher revs. With injectors small enough not to run rich at low revs once I start revving it out properly with a bit of load I run out of time to inject enough fuel. The Link ECU allows a staged setup where the secondary injectors can be larger so hopefully problem solved. I also need to run an ignition amplifier. I have one lying around but I need to use low resistance coils. A quick check finds them at $165ea, or I could run the dual post ones on my other bike and just ground one lead. Plus there's relays for ignition 12v and the fuel pump. My bench is covered with computers and wires and sensors and relays which I will have to find a place for on the bike.

If anybody has suggestions for a compact 28mm throttle body, it doesn't need an injector, or ignition coils, let me know.

[Grumph]

Cut up a 3LN carb. Should be enough length in the casting to get a piece double ended out of it.
If you haven't got an old carb body in the scrap, I have...

[speedpro]

Looking for suggestions. Have more or less decided to replace the standard stator and rotor with a smaller one. Smaller physically and electrically. I have also decided that the crank trigger disc has to go on the end with the generator as getting a decent size disc on the crank inside the engine is a problem.

What are my options for a little generator? Making adaptors and even transferring the rotor to an original Yamaha rotor centre boss shouldn't be too hard. My only real concern is the revs it will be asked to do. Really don't want it coming apart at revs.

[husaberg]

Looking for suggestions. Have more or less decided to replace the standard stator and rotor with a smaller one. Smaller physically and electrically. I have also decided that the crank trigger disc has to go on the end with the generator as getting a decent size disc on the crank inside the engine is a problem.

What are my options for a little generator? Making adaptors and even transferring the rotor to an original Yamaha rotor centre boss shouldn't be too hard. My only real concern is the revs it will be asked to do. Really don't want it coming apart at revs.

I remember reading about the problems Trevor Franklin had with his mix and match FZR600 early late stator in PB in the 90's
Although TZ seems to have had success with re rivoting them though?
people have mounted two inner rotor Pitbike stators back to back on Honda twins with good effect but thats a straight mag only deal.
The smallest motobike generator set ups i can think of are the ones used on the aprilias Selcttra.
http://www.selettra-ignitioncoil.it/46/21/generators/generators/4_poles.html

if you wanted to go real tiny there is always these.
Brushless RC motors
http://www.myrcmart.com/images/upload/RCX07-108-K540-1900KV-Bullistorm-Sensorless-Brushless-Motor-17-5T-For-1-10-RC-Car-3mm-Shaft-05.jpg

that said you always have the option of piggy backing the generator on the otherside much like a CBX400 or countless other four stroke multis.

[Grumph]

Looking for suggestions. Have more or less decided to replace the standard stator and rotor with a smaller one. Smaller physically and electrically. I have also decided that the crank trigger disc has to go on the end with the generator as getting a decent size disc on the crank inside the engine is a problem.

What are my options for a little generator? Making adaptors and even transferring the rotor to an original Yamaha rotor centre boss shouldn't be too hard. My only real concern is the revs it will be asked to do. Really don't want it coming apart at revs.

Can you consider separating the generating function from ignition trigger. Generator/alternator perhaps piggybacked on top of the clutch running at less than crank rpm. Gear drive would probably be a must unfortunately.
I know the Britten used a very small alternator housed behind a cam pulley - but without asking one of the guys i don't know where they sourced it.

[F5 Dave]

I remember reading about the problems Trevor Franklin had with his mix and match FZR600 early late stator in PB in the 90's
Although TZ seems to have had success with re rivoting them though?
people have mounted two inner rotor Pitbike stators back to back on Honda twins with good effect but thats a straight mag only deal.
The smallest motobike generator set ups i can think of are the ones used on the aprilias Selcttra.
http://www.selettra-ignitioncoil.it/46/21/generators/generators/4_poles.html

if you wanted to go real tiny there is always these.
Brushless RC motors
http://www.myrcmart.com/images/upload/RCX07-108-K540-1900KV-Bullistorm-Sensorless-Brushless-Motor-17-5T-For-1-10-RC-Car-3mm-Shaft-05.jpg
at said you always have the option of piggy backing the generator on the otherside much like a CBX400 or countless other four stroke multis.

You mean Simon Howtowreckthemagazinetwicegreaves. they welded the flywheel and it failed.

[FastFred]

I remember reading about the problems Trevor Franklin had with his mix and match FZR600 early late stater in PB in the 90's Although TZ seems to have had success with re riveting them though?

Talking with TZ, he puts most of his success with re riveting them down to using plenty of 5 min Araldite glue. He thinks the large glued surface area takes a lot of strain off the rivets.

[F5 Dave]

So just how does that conversation work?:rolleyes:

Is the Norton a reference to Edward Norton?

In the Pitts with TZ?

Have you been sleeping lately?

[TZ350]

So just how does that conversation work? :rolleyes:

It works very well, when we are in the lunch room ..... :laugh:

325209

I have had some success changing the flywheel carrier for another with a different taper by gluing the new carrier to the old flywheel then bolting through where the rivets were. I think the glue over the relatively large surface area between them helps a lot. It seems to have worked well for Mr Bigglesworth anyway.

[Hemi Makutu]

Is the glue really "5 min Araldite", or stronger, like 'JB Weld', or a semi-resilient 'Sika-Flex' type?

[husaberg]

You mean Simon Howtowreckthemagazinetwicegreaves. they welded the flywheel and it failed.

Err not sure, didn''t hargreeves have the much better CBR600 with fireblade pistons.
i think they rivoted, then rivoted and glued, then welded last, on the fzr600, but in my defense it was like twenty plus years ago in a magazine.

[F5 Dave]

That was Forsyth withe the silver Micron sponsored CBR emc quadrant shock etc, can't remember who dickweasel was sponsored by but maybe TTS did the tuning. Some sort of bike cleaning product maybe.

[F5 Dave]

It works very when we are in the lunch room ..... :laugh:

325209

I have had some success changing the flywheel carrier for another with a different taper by gluing the new carrier to the old flywheel then bolting through where the rivets were. I think the glue over the relatively large surface area between them helps a lot. It seems to have worked well for Mr Bigglesworth anyway.
The first rule about lunch room is we don`t talk about lunch room.

[husaberg]

That was Forsyth withe the silver Micron sponsored CBR emc quadrant shock etc, can't remember who dickweasel was sponsored by but maybe TTS did the tuning. Some sort of bike cleaning product maybe.

Right you are, it was Forsyth with the CBR and Hargreeves with the yam it was TTS that tuned the FZR. The FZR as well as having the old longer stroke crank had 2mm over CBR600 pistons.
I think the FZR had 6 pot harrisons that worked worse than the std brakes as well.

[speedpro]

It's been a bit difficult but have made a little progress. Have just started work on the cam trigger mount. I have spare trigger discs if anyone has a need for such things. some are plain, others have cutouts.



332733332734332735332736332737332738

[speedpro]

crank trigger arrangent332739332740

[Grumph]

Remind me what ignition it is that you're using. So far neither of the two std ignition boxes i have will provide a spark so I might be interested in what you're using - if it can be afforded on the pension....
One ign box still to arrive ex aussie so there's still hope....

[speedpro]

I’m going to a Link Atom and LS1 ignition coils with built in amplifiers. Coils from Oz at a very good price. I think they arrive on crate motors and get swapped out as part of the engine build. You could try to use a GSXR250 ignition. One of my little single pole triggers is all you need. We have one on my sons CB125t

[speedpro]

Just about ready to put the motor back in and start wiring. Spun the crank trigger disc on the mill with the sensor in the vice as I needed to check the polarity of the signal. It needs to be positive going as the tooth approaches the sensor and negative going as it moves away. nice and easy to see on the 'scope that Rob dropped at my house last week. That scope brought back some memories from my Air Force days, Test & Measurement training, and all the good gear we had. My basic scope was a "545" i think. In any case it was very similar to this one.
333018 333017

[speedpro]

Motor now in and making a start on the wiring. Lots and lots of wiring. Spent the $$$ on a Weller soldering iron, soooo good after using crap for years. Funnily enough I'm finding it hard to find a bit of shielded twisted pair for the crank and cam triggers. Could use a bit of Cat5 or 6 but not sure how durable it will be in the environment.

[FastFred]

Funnily enough I'm finding it hard to find a bit of shielded twisted pair for the crank and cam triggers.

WB1504 ... JayCar 2 core shielded but possibly not twisted pair by the look of it.

WB1540 ... 4 core shielded mike or pickup cable.

WB1534 ... 2 core shielded. This looks like it might be a suitable 2 core twisted pair shielded signal cable.

[Grumph]

Motor now in and making a start on the wiring. Lots and lots of wiring. Spent the $$$ on a Weller soldering iron, soooo good after using crap for years. Funnily enough I'm finding it hard to find a bit of shielded twisted pair for the crank and cam triggers. Could use a bit of Cat5 or 6 but not sure how durable it will be in the environment.

Gawd, that makes mine look like a crystal set alongside a colour TV....Or it would if we could get one of my ignition boxes working.
May yet have to go to what I didn't want - a trigger on the end of each cam.

[speedpro]

Funnily enough I'm still working on the 12v distribution and the main ground. I've just made the main power connection to the loom for the ECU this afternoon. Now have triggers(crank and cam), temp(water and inlet air), MAP, injectors(X2), ignition(X2), signal grounds, tacho, Lambda meter though most of that is plug and play with just the output to be wired to the ECU, ignition suppression caps to do. Most of that is missing from the photo above.
I've also had my son sort out an Arduino to connect sensors on John Connor's dyno to the new computer. It's pretty much ready to go. We just need to go up and install it.
Short work days over Christmas and long weekends should see it sorted, hopefully. Drinking most of a bottle of wine every night isn't helping.

[speedpro]

Coming together very well. Powered up the ECU yesterday and put in the base config, triggers, analogue channels, temps, injection, ignition, etc. Very cool being able to test individual injectors and ignition circuits. Bit of a relief being able to confirm wiring and operation. Put in vacuum lines from both ports combined to the MAP sensor. Had to combine them as I'm running individual throttle bodies. Once I go to the throttle being on the turbo outlet I'll be able to have just the one off the plenum. Put in the fuel circuit this afternoon. I haven't put any fuel in it yet so don't know if it leaks.
Next step is getting the ECU activated. They're shipped locked. If they're stolen they are of no use.
Link don't have hard copy books but the management software has very good, understandable, descriptions of every function. They also have a forum where you can ask questions and anyone with a good answer can reply. My last question was answered by a dealer in the UK.
I'll take a photo once I put it back together. Plumbing and wiring is a nightmare, even in the roomy FZR chassis.
I'm going to run it off an external battery initially. The LiPo battery might be OK for a session, it'll be interesting to see just what the current draw is.Once I put the lambda gear back in I'll need a generator as the sensor has a heater which draws a bit of current. If I leave it in the exhaust plenum it might not be too bad as it gets pretty toasty I would think. We've had a header glowing when doing dyno pulls with the old engine management.
The coils put out a pretty decent spark considering they are regular inductive coils off a LS2 chev and not CDI. With only a 2mS dwell time required the total current draw for the ignition will be lowish. The injectors are surprisingly solid with the way they energise. I had a spare I plugged into the loom for testing which I just held on to. I thought it would be much softer in it's action but it clicked on pretty hard.

[speedpro]

Spun it over tonight to see where the timing was. Got a good spark on the live ignition circuit but neither of my timing lights would flash. They were good gear when I bought them but that was ages ago. Possibly the LS2 coil spark is shorter duration but more intense and they aren't compatible.

[speedpro]

Pretty much ready to go. The wiring is a bit untidy as I haven't got the ECU fitted in the container properly and a bit of the cable covering is pulled back while I just check a few things. There's a bunch of wiring under this lot going to the crank and cam triggers and the TPS on the throttle bodies

[jasonu]

Mike if there were prizes for 'most complex' and or 'longest build' you'd get 'em both.

[speedpro]

It's so close to going but the interference from the plain wire ignition HT leads causes trigger errors and messes the whole thing up. I've confirmed it by spinning it by hand with injectors and ignition disconnected - no errors. I connected one coil and fitted a plug, spun it over and got errors. So now I'm looking for a set of suppressor type HT leads from a motorbike with plug caps that fit the CR10EK plugs but which I can crimp a connector to for the LS2 coils.
Dave at Tune Technik gave me a base setup to try based on my motor and although the motor hasn't run, as close at it got the setup he suggested gave the best results. Pretty amazing considering it's nothing like his usual play things. Also dropped in this afternoon to say "Hi" and check the place over. Very nice 4-wheel drive Eddy current dyno all setup in a room with HUGE fans and nice clean tidy workshop and office. He's willing to try and fit the bike on the dyno which I thought was pretty decent of him.

[Grumph]

What about off the shelf carbon leads - my local wholesalers have a huge range of lengths.
The caps - long thin variety - go straight on the CR plugs too.

[speedpro]

Woohoo


Sorted out brainfade inspired wiring issue, reset a bit of software, and away it went first pull. Spun by hand up on axle stands. Ran about 30seconds and then petered out as it warmed. Back on the dyno this weekend to make a start on the base fuel map and maybe fiddle a bit with the start and post-start maps. The software has a "cranking" fuel map. It doesn't seem configurable what revs it considers "cranking. Currently it is set to "less than 400rpm". The motor spins at 1500rpm when the wheel is spun by hand in 2nd gear so the first map it sees is the post-start map.timing at 20BTDC at the moment will be fine for the moment.

[speedpro]

Got HT leads from Repco, one red, one black, in the spirit of bucket racing. Red one was only $2 and the perfect length.

[Grumph]

Got HT leads from Repco, one red, one black, in the spirit of bucket racing. Red one was only $2 and the perfect length.

Canterbury colours - I approve....

[F5 Dave]

Canterbury colours - I approve....
Sounds like a reference to rugby. I dissapprove.

[Grumph]

Sounds like a reference to rugby. I dissapprove.

Should I find a pic of my late Auntie Nancy playing Hockey for Canterbury in red and black ?

[F5 Dave]

Find the one with her on a Speedway bike and then we're talking. See? I am more open minded than one might think. :sunny:

[Grumph]

Find the one with her on a Speedway bike and then we're talking. See? I am more open minded than one might think. :sunny:

One probably exists....she was at Teacher's College in ChCh around the time the old man started riding speedway....

[husaberg]

Find the one with her on a Speedway bike and then we're talking. See? I am more open minded than one might think. :sunny:
So it seems was auntie Nancy
335397

[speedpro]

Back on topic. . . .

Ran the bike again tonight, 3rd gear, 1st pull and it's idling away. Played with the fuel map and ignition and after about 5 minutes it went to 1 cylinder then stopped. It was just running off the LiPo battery. When measured it was only 6V :doh:

Hooked up the big 12v car battery and away it went. Reset the trigger calibration with the engine running to make sure it was correct. The motor does not like spark at less than 10BTDC.

Blipping it to 5000rpm after it warmed to 70 and playing with fuel and timing it is now quite peppy. It seems happy with about 25BTDC timing and you can hear it pick up or drop off with minor adjustments in fuel or timing.

It will idle happily if left completely alone. Tomorrow I'll try starting it again and just play with the % enrichment to get it to fire up. The main fuel table is pretty good around idle and startup I think.

A pleasant end to what turned out to be a shitty day

[Grumph]

As best I can tell from a manual in Japanese, idle timing is 10degrees @1600rpm. Full advance appears to be 44 degrees @ 16000rpm.

Max advance is about par for the course. I'd doubt if it would detonate at that even under boost.

[husaberg]

As best I can tell from a manual in Japanese, idle timing is 10degrees @1600rpm. Full advance appears to be 44 degrees @ 16000rpm.

Max advance is about par for the course. I'd doubt if it would detonate at that even under boost.
thats what i found as well.
http://i.imgur.com/qccacAe.png (https://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwimxZXYy7XZAhXKerwKHXjnC24QjRx6BAgAEAY&url=https%3A%2F%2F2fiftycc.com%2Findex.php%3Fthrea ds%2Ffzr150-bucket-race-motor.8949%2F&psig=AOvVaw0L3YA-UIjnBpu_-bZNPgkq&ust=1519253573693037)
Interstingly the CBR250's run 20 to 23 degrees at 1500rpm depending of model with unknown high rpm
https://2fiftycc.com/index.php?threads/honda-cbr250rr-mc22-specifications.2521/

[speedpro]

I've set timing at anything over 8000rpm(ish) to 44BTDC. On John's dyno, just using the inertia of the roller to work against and with the wideband Lambda installed it was pretty easy to see it start to lean off at certain revs and load and simply add a bit of fuel and redo run. After half an hour, and just before I killed me and my son with carbon monoxide poisoning, it was running and sounding quite good. It's pretty crisp up to 15,000rpm which was as far as I took it. Blips cleanly, idles sweet, takes any throttle at any revs up to about 50% or a bit more. I picked up my rolling road tonight from John's garage and have the bike sitting on it downstairs.
The neighbours are going to be real happy.
The Link ECU is very stable so far and adjustments seem very precise. So far the switch from Ecotrons seems to have been a very good idea. I'll probably play a bit more making manual adjustments and then feed the Lambda output to the ECU and get it autotuning.
I'm going to have to sort out an alternator for it as the current draw means a single LiPo blade only lasts about 5 minutes. i use a big 12V car battery beside the dyno to run it at the moment.

[Grumph]

Is it showing any boost ?

I had a look this morning and I don't have any 250 stators here sorry.

[speedpro]

I've got a rotor & stator but aren't using it. I used a spare rotor boss and mounted the crank trigger disc on it. Now I need a small rotor I can mount on the outside of the trigger disc that won't fall apart at 19,000 rpm, and associated stator.

[speedpro]

Got the Ecotrons Accurate Lambda Meter(ALM) hooked up to the Link now. Anaolgue input 3(AN3) was setup as Lambda input and that all worked but I had a little trouble figuring the best options to get the ALM and the Link to see the same Lambda value. In the end it turned out to be real easy.

Setup the ALM to output .5V at Lambda = .7, and 5V at Lambda = 1.3. By default the higher value is larger but I'm not interested in the leaner mixtures.

Then I chose Calibration table 2 to define what voltage input on AN3 equalled what Lambda. I set the Lambda values to start at .7 and step up in .04 steps. This made the last value Lambda = 1.3 so a perfect match with the ALM. It seems by default the first voltage is .5V and the last is 5V with equally spaced .3V increments.

The ALM has a very useful test mode where you can enter a value of Lambda and it outputs the voltage determined by the setup table. I tested it at every value in the Link ECU table and it exactly matched so now the Link software sees exactly the same Lambda as the ALM.

Next is the Quicktune feature where the Lambda measured is matched to a table of desired Lambda values. The software can be setup to make adjustments automatically. There's a manual option as well. It's all a guess at the moment what value to go for as I don't know the optimal value for each cell in the load table. Lambda = .85 should be a good start point

Actually I'm not even sure the load table is going to remain as MAP versus RPM. It seems a better option might be to make the load table TPS versus RPM and have the desired Lambda table setup MAP versus RPM and making corrections on the fly. I haven't got close to getting my head around that one yet.

[speedpro]

I've tried a few different techniques to try and get some tuning working.
It definitely auto tunes OK but the time required in a load cell and needing to be real close to centre makes it pretty difficult. It would be a lot easier with a real dyno where you could lock in rpm and use the throttle to vary the load.
What seems to be working with my setup is I have put "15" in every cell in the fuel map, still using MAP over RPM. Then manually tuned each cell or small range of cells around where it hovers, based on the AFR ratio. It works well enough and you can easily see where you have been because it isn't "15" any more. I haven't done too much because it is in my garage with the roller door up and the exhaust pointing out the door. The other good thing is that you can see how the map is developing and easily enter approximate values in the next load cells to be tuned. This is all being done on my rolling road but would work on an inertia dyno as well. As the revs rise, loaded against the roller inertia, you can see the AFR vary and make an adjustment and then do it again. Might have to have a chat with Rob & Cully

[TZ350]

Sorry about the odd angle of the photos but some how the phone and KiwiBiker clash over the orientation of them.

335930335931335932335933

Finally got the dyno up and running again and spent an enjoyable afternoon helping Mike with #6. A very interesting efi turbo Bucket project. Incredibly quite bike, the turbo seems to make a great muffler.

[speedpro]

I haven't been making much noise with the bike. We just ran it in the garage for 15 minutes to warm it up and pinpoint the leak. Turns out it is from somewhere around the end of the intake cam where it protrudes through an oil seal. It has an alloy boss pressed into the end and it's either from around there or, hoping, from the 6mm cap screw in the end. The boss and cam are both ground concentric and 24mm so if needed I will press a speedi sleeve over the join with a little sealant on it. Might have to relocate the seal 2mm further out to make it work. I'll run it again tomorrow to see if I've fixed the leak or whether I need the sleeve.
On the fuel front I've changed the fuel Equation mode from MAP to BAP/MAP crossover. So now the main fuel table has Throttle Position(TP) versus RPM. The ECU uses TP to determine fuel requirement at an RPM up to where boost starts, or where MAP exceeds Barometric Air Pressure(BAP). Once MAP exceeds BAP it uses what they call a 4D fuel table to adjust the fuel as determined by the main fuel table.
The main fuel table should be able to have quite a few load cells plotted without boost occurring. For those cells where it always pulls boost such as high revs and large throttle it will be a matter of coming up with a number that looks right in the main fuel table. Lets say 80% throttle and 14,000rpm always ends up with boost and we've determined that 50 is a reasonable number in that cell in the main fuel map. In the 4D table at 14,000rpm, if we have say 1.2BAR boost, the relevant cell may have 10 in it. This is a percentage of whats in the main fuel map cell which in this case is 50. 10% of 50 = 5 so the fuel injected is 55.
If the throttle is opened to 100%, still at 14,000rpm, the main fuel map might have 60 in that cell. If the boost remained at 1.2BAR, in the 4D table the same cell would still be in use - 14,000RPM/1.2BAR, so 60 would have 10% added to it making the fuel injected 66.
It's actually pretty cool what it does. It does altitude correction with the BAP reading, uses the throttle position and revs and BAP to calculate fuel while MAP is below BAP, and then when MAP exceeds BAP uses the 4D table to add percentages to whatever has been calculated.
Just got to figure out a technique to tune it.
One very cool feature of the system is what they call the Mixture Map. Where it is difficult to use Quick tune you can use Mixture Map. You turn on logging either to the ECU or PC if connected and record at least RPM, Load, and Lambda. If you hold the engine at a particular load and rpm for a short time it records in each cell the Desired Lambda, Actual Lambda, number of samples, and the error. If you click in a cell in the Mixture Map the same cell is also highlighted in the main fuel map. You can right click and update and it calculates the correct value for the main fuel map and writes it in. It's all colour coded dependent on how far out it is or whether it is spot on. More noise tomorrow.

[husaberg]

337021337022
Drawing of Freddies 250 twin turbo
note the surge tank size

[speedpro]

Not even slightly buckety, but, I'm after a GN250 carb if anyone wants to get rid of one. Seems it will be ideal for my scooter. Actually "ideal" would be a 34mm flatslide downdraught but the wife is already grumpy about what this engine is costing.

[jasonu]

Actually "ideal" would be a 34mm flatslide downdraught but the wife is already grumpy about what this engine is costing.

Buy the 34 and a bunch of roses for her indoors. Should do the trick.:niceone:

[speedpro]

Went for a brand new Mikuni TM33 pumper carb. Very nice. Then found a near perfect manifold tapering from 32mm to 28mm on Webike so ordered that and a new throttle cable and new drive belt. Only an air filter to go now and still married, dammit! I fired it up when it was in the scooter just to see. Sounds the biz. Will be interesting to see how it goes with the big carb.

[speedpro]

Scooter is now going pretty good so it's back to the FZR.

Connected a battery, hooked up the laptop and Lambda meter, power on, 3rd gear, gave the wheel a pull and it fired up 1st time and idled away sweetly. Lots of tuning to do but will simplify it and not get too worried about precision.

[speedpro]

Had a spare moment so fired it up again today. Took 3 tries this time to start it.
Disconnected the tube between turbo and inlet plenum as I do not want boost at this time. I want to setup a simple TPS vs RPM fuel table.
Warmed it up and then created a very cut down fuel table. X-axis RPM values are only 0, 1000, 4000, 11000, & 18000. Y-axis TPS % values are 0, 5, 10, 50, & 100. The same values are at each junction. It fired straight back up which I expected. I retained the lower 3 values for both X & Y axis. Blipping the throttle on the stand and the lambda was staying more or less where it had previously. A bit of dyno time is now required to see if I need to add in any rows or columns though I suspect I could probably just alter the values of RPM or TPS instead. A 5X5 table will be a lot simpler to tune even if using auto-tune.

[speedpro]

Thanks to Rob & Cully of ESE I got the FZR on the dyno this arvo. Initial runs with the cutdown tables were encouraging. First runs were with the turbo disconnected from the intake plenum. Started with 50% throttle runs, monitored AFR, and recorded horsepower. A few adjustments saw an improvement and the bike running sweet with smooth response to throttle changes. Pretty sure it was only making 7hp and not revving much over 13-14000. Went on with 100% throttle runs, tipped in more fuel and made a few ignition changes as well, giving it more advance. It was making 12hp now which is less than it made with the old carbs and a couple of straight pipes but with the turbo clogging things up no real surprise.
Connected the turbo to the intake plenum and went through making 50% throttle runs. It pulled boost straight away from about 8-10,000rpm and made a few more horsepower. Initially it was lean on boost but with the 4D fuel table I ended up adding about 20% more fuel depending on boost. Full throttle runs saw a bit more boost and more fuel needed, and more horsepower. Final reading was 18hp with a near flat torque curve from 8-15,000rpm.
I'm hoping to go back tomorrow and chase the last few 1000 rpm. I've also caved in and added a couple more rpm points in the fuel table so I need to do a few runs with the turbo disconnected to be sure the values are correct. I've added matching rpm points in the 4D fuel table so hopefully will be able to recover a couple of horsepower we lost down low while retaining and extending the power at higher rpm.
I also had an rpm limit programmed in based on cylinder head temp. We weren't controlling the head temp very well and I suspect when we ran the temp down at 65-85 that there was a problem which was limiting the revs. Supposedly the control should have been by a fuel cut but I saw the AFR go REALLY rich around 15-16,000rpm.

There is a problem which I suspected with the fuel configuration. The main fuel map is TPS vs RPM. This map has values that were determined with the turbo disconnected from the intake plenum. The values are pretty good for a normally aspirated motor. The 4D map is Manifold Gauge Pressure(MGP) vs RPM. The MGP range starts at atmospheric pressure or 0 MGP with all 0s so no extra fuel added off boost. Any increase in MGP above atmospheric will cause the fuel calculated by the main fuel map(TPS vs RPM) to be increased by a percentage. The problem is that the engine pulls boost at 1/2 throttle and flows an amount of air determined by the boost, not by the throttle. It might pull the same boost at full throttle and of course the fuel is increased by the same percentage. In both cases the motor is flowing the same amount of air courtesy of the boost, but the fuel is initially calculated in the main fuel table and there are different values for 50% & 100% throttle and therefore different initial fuel amounts which are then increased by the same %. They can't both be correct. The Link help files suggest this setup but I'm thinking I may need to set the main fuel map to MAP vs RPM but the MAP signal is pretty weak generally. Possibly may have to do it but concentrate the MAP values around 70 - 100kPa to try and get some definition. Of course then there will be no need for the 4D table??? I could do the whole fuel calculation in the main fuel table with MAP values varying from 70 to 140kPa, 100kPa being atmospheric, a lower value being manifold vacuum and a value greater than 100kPa being boost. Or just use full throttle everywhere.

[TZ350]

340109340110340111

Speedpro's Turbocharged and Fuel Injected twin cylinder cut down 4 cylinder FZR. The turbo fits in where the outside two cylinders were removed from.
.

[speedpro]

Making a bit of progress. The engine has always run OK and it was easy enough to make changes to sort out issues at lower revs and loads. I've now had a couple of days on the ESE dyno and have been doing full throttle runs to whatever revs it will do.
I had a configuration programmed that I thought was not going to work after the first day. We gave it another shot today and it is good enough that I'm not bothering to change it. One difficulty today was a fueling issue just as it is coming up on boost. We never really got it sorted. It was actually better at half throttle. A pleasant surprise is how easily it pulls boost. If the revs drop to 6K you can give it full throttle and by 10K it has boost and would probably have more if the fueling was better. If you have had revs high and let it run down to 10K and open the throttle full it pulls 140kPa straight away. i'm pretty sure the turbo wastegate is opening at 140kPa so that's all I've seen. A real problem is that it isn't happy revving over 16K or so. the AFR moves about a bit and as it approaches 16K it suddenly goes very rich. We were thinking it was an ignition issue but I think not. Lambda meters measure the oxygen in the exhaust and if ignition failed there would be more oxygen and a lean indication. something to check some other day.
The motor might be making a bit of noise, a sort of top end rattle. I'll be taking the camcover off to have a look and will check tappets and cam chain.
Anyway, the end result is a pretty impressive torque curve and an OK horsepower figure. There's more to go if I haven't broken the motor. There's 2K rpm to go for instance. The turbo will hold the torque up which with revs will make more horsepower.
One thing I like with this setup is how the throttle can be moved how you like at any revs and the motor smoothly goes about it's business.
Must sort out a generator for the bike. The small battery charger wasn't keeping up with the supply and the little battery ended up dropping to 9V or so. The bigger battery and charger sorted it out today.
It's a thirsty little beast as well.

[Grumph]

Check valve springs too. Your over-rich top end could be an inlet floating.

[speedpro]

I knew there was a reason I was putting off top end maintenance, what a bitch getting it all apart. The problem is all the modifications that have been made.
Anyway, got the top off and measured tappet clearances. Inlets were all .05mm or slightly less, when they should be .1-.2mm. The exhausts were all at .2mm with the range they should be being .2-.3mm. The head was reconditioned before I assembled the engine and all the shims were in a tight range of sizes. I've ordered a collection of shims from an Aussie crowd - Precision Shims. Really fast reply to my email enquiry and getting shipped this afternoon.
The cam chain seemed a bit loose when I checked. I had a look at the tensioner which was only out about 1/4-1/3 of it's travel so I put it back together and pushed the rod out one more click on the ratchet which seemed to be about right.

I just hope the cams go back in and can be lined up with the marks I've made. The standard marks are no good as the bit of each cam I'm using is the bit that was over #1&2. I've flipped the cams over so the locating disc on the end of each cam is retained when I cut the cams in half. Luckily the cams have symmetrical lobes so can be rotated in either direction. Also luckily, Yamaha had small recesses at the other end of the head where the locating discs fit into above #4. A small shim was made to get the cam sprockets to line up with the crank sprocket.

I'll probably give it a run with the 2:1 exhaust just to check things are good. The plugs came out with a slight wet oily look. It might be something to do with the turbo, maybe. On the dyno we had the exhaust going straight into a vent to the outside so had no view of smoke if any. It's only 4 more bolts so why not.

[speedpro]

All shimmed up. Luckily I bought a wider range of shims then I thought I needed as basically I went one smaller shim on nearly every valve. Got it back together without too much drama, and no bits left over. I've gone with the 2:1 exhaust to sort out the revving with a simpler setup. 2:1 is not ideal with this firing order but it really is just 2 headers into a common muffler. I had it on the stand, powered up, in 3rd gear and was turning the back wheel slowly just to get a feel for the compression when it popped on one cylinder. It took little effort with the throttle held at about 10% to get it fired up. I'd sort of forgotten just how good a 180' twin sounds at a few revs though it's possibly a bit loud. Long weekend coming up in Auckland.

[speedpro]

Been playing on the ESE dyno today. Turbo has been removed and a simple 2:1 pipe installed. The fuel map is a simple TPS/RPM map with a limited number of variables.
It was running lean at the start despite the warmup enrichment so I added more fuel and also increased the amount of enrichment. Once warm and over a number of runs it was obvious that more fuel was required everywhere. Just going by the Lambda meter I was increasing fuel run after run until it was reading about what it should. The end result was about 16hp. It was still limiting around 15-16,000rpm and would go very rich very quickly. I did notice that the engine rpm reading in a display turned yellow once it got near 15,000rpm. Considering that I have disabled all the engine protection features in the software I didn't expect it to be limiting.
The first runs were done with the intake plenum fitted.
I was trying to eliminate reasons for the rev limiting so another set of runs was done with the plenum removed. Unexpectedly a lot more fuel was required, about 50% more in a few areas. It revved a bit harder but was still limiting at about the same rpm. These tests ended with a bit less than 18hp. Not too bad for a 125cc normally aspirated motor.
Currently the throttle response is flawless and the torque curve is very handy. Looking at the power curves it would be a very nice bike to ride.
The attached screen shot shows 3 runs. RED is with the intake plenum fitted, BLUE is with the plenum removed, and GREEN is an older one with the turbo in place on the 100cc engine(cough cough). The fuel map has low values in areas that aren't used, for instance 0% throttle over 7,000rpm. You can see this on the overrun as it goes super lean and as the revs drop down closer to 4,000rpm it comes back to a normal reading. Just touching the throttle brings it back instantly.
I didn't really achieve anything today apart from coming to the conclusion that something in the software is causing the rev limiting. Also the intake plenum is restrictive but works fine with the turbo.
An interesting observation with the plenum off was that there was no fuel standoff outside the throttle bodies. With the open carburetors there was fuel standoff about 100-200mm at certain revs so I figure all the injected fuel must end up going in the engine.

[speedpro]

Went down to the garage and plugged the laptop in to the ECU. In the Engine Protection part of the screen it was showing a RPM limit of 12,000rpm. Bit odd as all engine protection is turned off. I went looking for where this might be configured and actually turned on rpm limiting and had a look at the associated table. Sure enough there is an entry for 20' ECT with 12,000rpm. Looking a bit further along there is also an entry for 100' ECT with 16,00rpm in it. This is more or less the rpm at more or less the head temp where I'm having the problem. I turned off rpm limiting and the table became unavailable. The rpm limit remained. I turned rpm limiting back on and set the rpm at 20' to 18,000rpm and then disabled rpm limiting. The rpm limit was now 18,000rpm so that table is still active despite me disabling rpm limiting. It seems obvious that it is also active at 100' and is causing the limiting problem. I've asked about it on the Link forum so will be interesting to see what answer I get.
I had configured this table when initially playing with the software. I had thought that the engine would run a bit cooler so had it configured to reduce the max revs as the temp hit 100'. When I disabled it I didn't think about it any more.

[husaberg]

Went down to the garage and plugged the laptop in to the ECU. In the Engine Protection part of the screen it was showing a RPM limit of 12,000rpm. Bit odd as all engine protection is turned off. I went looking for where this might be configured and actually turned on rpm limiting and had a look at the associated table. Sure enough there is an entry for 20' ECT with 12,000rpm. Looking a bit further along there is also an entry for 100' ECT with 16,00rpm in it. This is more or less the rpm at more or less the head temp where I'm having the problem. I turned off rpm limiting and the table became unavailable. The rpm limit remained. I turned rpm limiting back on and set the rpm at 20' to 18,000rpm and then disabled rpm limiting. The rpm limit was now 18,000rpm so that table is still active despite me disabling rpm limiting. It seems obvious that it is also active at 100' and is causing the limiting problem. I've asked about it on the Link forum so will be interesting to see what answer I get.
I had configured this table when initially playing with the software. I had thought that the engine would run a bit cooler so had it configured to reduce the max revs as the temp hit 100'. When I disabled it I didn't think about it any more.

Be interested to see what they really rev to i always thought the CBR were a bit optimistic atindicating they were revving to M which was 20K.
I never rode a FZR250 but i dont imagine there were much different.
So the rich mixture at 16K was the ignition signing off an raw fuel being dumped into the exhaust

[speedpro]

Anything, ignition or injection, signing off will result in more oxygen being in the exhaust giving a lean indication. There may be unburnt fuel in the exhaust but Lambda probes don't measure that, just oxygen. The richness is more likely caused by a reduction in VE, possibly valve float has been suggested. I have read that max power is at 14,000 which it may be.
Feedback from Link is that the flashing RPM indicator is just that. It isn't an indicator of rpm limiting. It changes colour with revs because it has been programmed to do that. We'll see. I'm going to programme in real low revs, say 8,000rpm, and see what happens with the rpm limiter turned off.

[F5 Dave]

Think 250s redlined at 17 but as later found out the new at the time R6 was super optimistic on the Tachometer so the revs they were boasting about in press releases was later debunked..

My RZ runs an R1 clockset. The Dyno reading 10,000 was 11,000 on the clocks. Think it got worse as the revs got higher but ok at 5000.

[Grumph]

Little story about a CBR250RR....Guy came to me with one he'd had for about a month. Gray import bought from a largish dealer in ChCh. They didn't want to do a service - so I did oil, valve clearances, balance carbs...Shall we say, they were more used to Harleys...

Anyway a couple of weeks later I got a ring from them - "what did you do to it ?" Told them - and asked what had happened. Leg out of bed.

Next time I was in there I asked what the outcome was. Got told that the owner had delighted in it's ability to show 18,000 rpm - and used them all frequently.
Post blowup, they'd had the tacho checked - it was reading 2000 rpm LOW....

Someone in Japan must have swapped in an ignitor box with no limiter.

[husaberg]

Little story about a CBR250RR....Guy came to me with one he'd had for about a month. Gray import bought from a largish dealer in ChCh. They didn't want to do a service - so I did oil, valve clearances, balance carbs...Shall we say, they were more used to Harleys...

Anyway a couple of weeks later I got a ring from them - "what did you do to it ?" Told them - and asked what had happened. Leg out of bed.

Next time I was in there I asked what the outcome was. Got told that the owner had delighted in it's ability to show 18,000 rpm - and used them all frequently.
Post blowup, they'd had the tacho checked - it was reading 2000 rpm LOW....

Someone in Japan must have swapped in an ignitor box with no limiter.

Revving that high std was fun for a laugh but really rather pointless the gave up the ghost around 14-15, but once we discover the Hondas went to the indicated 20k everyone in the shop used to do it to the poor things anyway.
I never tried a Kawa one either ,but on paper they are in the highest state of tune,comp, bore, valves carbs etc The couple of Suzi ones i tried were never as quick as the Hondas.
I think Mike said he reverese the cams pretty sure you can do the inlet to ex cam swap and used do for the biker models That way you only need one new cam for the Normally aspirated hotted twin.
AS i have said to Mike before there is 2 different cam profiles on the yams if not more the first 3ln i think has the hottest one.
It actually says a lot for their engineering that any of them are still alive considering they were learners bikes. and the number of ham fisted hands they would have passed through

[Grumph]

My 150 twin has the ex cam reversed - and a bigger profile put on the inlet which of course is also reversed compared to std.
And yes, I did some measuring and checking, all the 3LN's I have here have the early, bigger cams.

[speedpro]

Definitely not the Link ECU. Set the rpm limiter table to 6000 everywhere and turned off limiting. Main screen indicated 6000rpm limit but quite happily revved over that. Turned on limiting and I could hold full throttle and it just sat there at 6000.
I'm going to pull all the valve springs I have out and check them. If they are consistent I can reasonably assume that the springs I have in the bike are the same. Failing that maybe the cam profiles aren't exactly symmetrical and I'll have to get a grind that is around the right way now they are being rotated in the direction they are. Grumph have you measured profiles of the cams for symmetry?

[speedpro]

My cams are still in their original locations, exhaust in exhaust etc. But they have been flipped over. The left end is now the right end and as a consequence the cams are rotating backwards

[Grumph]

No I haven't measured them - but all my previous experience with bucket and shim cams says they will be symmetrical.

Springs - I checked how far from the seals the retainers came - miles away. And how far from coil bind they were - again miles away. I shimmed the seats up from memory about 1mm. Without putting them on a spring checker, I'd pick that puts seat pressure up about 10lb.
They are after all, bloody small springs....I have a heap here if you can't assemble a good set.

Sadly, mine has not yet run. It will be a while too as the priority is now to earn some $$ to buy a new ignitor ex China. This appears to be the simplest way of putting an ignition on mine.

Edit afterthought - what lobe centers have you put them in on ?

[speedpro]

The cylinder head I used was a 2KR head. The 3LN head I have had dropped a valve in #3 so it was easier to use the 2KR head. I have a stack of unused springs to measure and pulled one out of the 3LN head for comparison. The 2KR springs are all the same length +- not much. The 3LN spring is .5mm longer. However the 3LN spring is slightly thinner wire. All springs are progressively wound, 2 steps in the winding anyway.

Thinking about it the valves must be floating. There is a horrible noise which suggests this is the case as well as the problem. If it was a simple problem with VE it would be vastly different with the turbo and it isn't. So I need new springs, or as Grumph I need to shim the springs up. Should be able to do it without removing the head.

[Grumph]

So I need new springs, or as Grumph I need to shim the springs up. Should be able to do it without removing the head.

I'd like to be there and watch that.....Air pressure ? large magnifying glass.....

Some time back, I built a new engine for one of Kickaha's then sponsors. A turbo'd 1400 Kawasaki in a Radical sports car. Anyway, the old one had a big exhaust cam in it - and there were signs the ex valves had tagged the pistons despite heaps of valve-piston clearance. Std springs too. Anyway talking to Kev Ban at kelford about it, he quoted problems with surge in the headers of turbo'd Subarus which gave such high pressure spikes they were holding valves open, tagging them and blowing the lot apart. I talked to a guy oop North who was the turbo Radical guru who simply said "put in a std cam on about 110 lobe center - it'll fix it. It apparently did as there have been no reports of trouble.
I can't help wondering about wave activity in a 180 deg twin header....

[husaberg]

looking at the basic spec there was a model between the 2kr and the 3ln
the i never heard of
it looks like a 3ln with 3kr frame and single disc this version and the first years 3ln had the hotest specs and highest redline 19500rpm
frame numbers for the highest reving ones
Model Designation Frame Numbers

3HX1 2KR-164101 -

3HX2 2KR-210101 -

3HX3 2KR-214101


or 1989

3LN1 3LN-218101 - 279000



The 1990 on one were detuned not sure if electronic or other ways.

Here is the 3ln specs for the post 1990 3LN
340714340713340712

Also we have
2KRs are 26mm BDS26
3LNs are 28mm BDST28

1. 2KR
2. EXUP (engines before 3LN) 3HX but still with 2kr style frame and single disc
3. 3LN early, with oil filter in sump plate
4. 3LN later, with spin on canister oil filter


The connecting rods on the 3LN1 are longer than previous (82mm vs. 80mm), the cams are different in terms of duration (difficult to measure) and the pistons are lighter and have gudgeon pins offset from central axis and I assume a different deck height to account for the longer rod.

Valve for YAMAHA FZR250 3LN 1SET
Stem diameter: 3.5mm;
Length: 77.5mm;
The top of the intake port: 19mm;
Top of the exhaust port: 15.5mm.


Valve for YAMAHA FZR250 1HX 1SET
Stem diameter: 4.0mm;
Length: 77.5mm;
The top of the intake port: 18mm;
Top of the exhaust port: 16.5mm.


340715340716

[F5 Dave]

Jesus-mother-arse-fucking-Christ this all seems overly complex. Isn't there some KISS solution to all this palava?

[speedpro]

Probably.

I could build a 30hp 2-stroke. There is a certain complexity to that though, as you well know.

Running it in the garage last night it just sounds sooo good. The throttle response is instant and the date logging shows it will blip from 2000rpm to 6-8000rpm in .2s. I'm pretty sure it is faster picking up with a few revs on. The 180' twins sound great. One thing I finally got round to checking was the current draw from the battery. At about 2000rpm, without the Lambda on, it was drawing 2+amps. Surprisingly it rose as I brought the revs up and exceeded 3A at 6000rpm. It will be interesting to see what it is pulling at 15000. With dwell control on the coils I knew it would increase but didn't expect it to increase that much. Might need to seriously look at putting the rotor back on and using the standard teeth arrangement on the rotor just so it can generate some electricity. Having a bit of inertia on the crank might also stop some of the chatter from the gearbox.

[Grumph]

On track you'll never notice any gearbox chatter.

That's a bloody high current draw. My 500 kawa twin running total loss battery power draws 1.6 amps right across the rev range - which is a pretty normal draw for most basic TCI ignitions in my experience. Even a Dyna on a four draws about that.

[speedpro]

Had a chat with Kev about what could be done about measuring the valve spring tension. I've decided I want to measure the spring tension at near zero lift and maybe a couple of other points, say 1,2,3mm. We've come up with an idea for a block that bolts to the head using the cam cap bolts and puts pressure on the valves by turning a screw. Between the screw and the valve will be a small hydraulic chamber which will be free to move in the mounting block with a gauge connected. One end of the chamber will have a piston which is free to move and will be pressing down on the valve. The fluid pressure will therefore be proportional to spring tension. A simple bit of maths will provide the actual pressure on the spring at various lifts.
I was hoping to use a tool that was made when I had the head on the bike prepared for use. It fits in the valve guides and the valve seat cutters fit on the larger diameter portion of the shaft. The bit of shaft that goes in the guide is 4mm diameter. It wouldn't go in the guides of the spare head. Turns out the newer valve stems are only 3.5mm diameter. It's going to be a bit of fun on the mill clocking it all up to get the angle but after that it's pretty straight forward.

[husaberg]

Had a chat with Kev about what could be done about measuring the valve spring tension. I've decided I want to measure the spring tension at near zero lift and maybe a couple of other points, say 1,2,3mm. We've come up with an idea for a block that bolts to the head using the cam cap bolts and puts pressure on the valves by turning a screw. Between the screw and the valve will be a small hydraulic chamber which will be free to move in the mounting block with a gauge connected. One end of the chamber will have a piston which is free to move and will be pressing down on the valve. The fluid pressure will therefore be proportional to spring tension. A simple bit of maths will provide the actual pressure on the spring at various lifts.
I was hoping to use a tool that was made when I had the head on the bike prepared for use. It fits in the valve guides and the valve seat cutters fit on the larger diameter portion of the shaft. The bit of shaft that goes in the guide is 4mm diameter. It wouldn't go in the guides of the spare head. Turns out the newer valve stems are only 3.5mm diameter. It's going to be a bit of fun on the mill clocking it all up to get the angle but after that it's pretty straight forward.

The earlier head might be better for the Turbo version with its bigger ex valves?

[speedpro]

Valves are the same size, just the stems changed. The spring retainers are different as well and the buckets.

[Grumph]

That's a lot of work to measure the spring pressures. If you have spares, it's grab a retainer, measure the installed height on a spare head - and off to a cam grinder/speed shop who have a spring measuring tool....
I've done just that so often at Kelford's, they barely look up when I come in.

[speedpro]

I don't know the installed height of the springs in the head on the motor. I'll be able to compare the seat pressure to the standard seat pressure of the 3LN head and also what Husa has provided above. It should be pretty simple to come up with a spring shim that should make it work. If the engine in the bike has a lower seat pressure than the 3LN head I'll be able to screw it down until it is equal and that will be exactly the height I will need to shim the spring.

I weighed a few bits tonight and it was very interesting. 2KR/3LN in grams - ex valve 10/10, spring retainer 5/4, tappet 12/8. All together 28/21. Unfortunately the spring retainers can't be swapped as the valve & collett combination won't fit. There is a useful reduction in weight going to the newer tappets of 4-5g or about a 20% reduction from 28g to 23g. I only have digital kitchen scales with a resolution of 1g.

I measured the exhaust valve head diameters and the 2KR and 3LN are both 15.5mm.

Should have measured all this 20 years ago.

[husaberg]

I don't know the installed height of the springs in the head on the motor. I'll be able to compare the seat pressure to the standard seat pressure of the 3LN head and also what Husa has provided above. It should be pretty simple to come up with a spring shim that should make it work. If the engine in the bike has a lower seat pressure than the 3LN head I'll be able to screw it down until it is equal and that will be exactly the height I will need to shim the spring.

I weighed a few bits tonight and it was very interesting. 2KR/3LN in grams - ex valve 10/10, spring retainer 5/4, tappet 12/8. All together 28/21. Unfortunately the spring retainers can't be swapped as the valve & collett combination won't fit. There is a useful reduction in weight going to the newer tappets of 4-5g or about a 20% reduction from 28g to 23g. I only have digital kitchen scales with a resolution of 1g.

I measured the exhaust valve head diameters and the 2KR and 3LN are both 15.5mm.

Should have measured all this 20 years ago.

i wonder if the measurements i have for the valves which are 3ln and the mid model 1HX are diffrent for 2kr.
Back in the old days when shiming was a aftermarket mod they only used two thicknesses.
there is an ad i could possibly dig up.

[speedpro]

Much simpler solution to measuring seat pressure. I have ordered a pack of flat disc pressure transducers and an Arduino micro. Simply make a bracket that lets me press on the valve with a screw and a flat bit between screw and transducer to spread force. Arduino runs off USB cable to power supply, measures output of pressure transducer and small digital display indicates force. Easy to calibrate by simply stacking a known weight on it and measuring. Handy having a kid who can put a bit of code together and knows his way around Arduino processors.

[husaberg]

Much simpler solution to measuring seat pressure. I have ordered a pack of flat disc pressure transducers and an Arduino micro. Simply make a bracket that lets me press on the valve with a screw and a flat bit between screw and transducer to spread force. Arduino runs off USB cable to power supply, measures output of pressure transducer and small digital display indicates force. Easy to calibrate by simply stacking a known weight on it and measuring. Handy having a kid who can put a bit of code together and knows his way around Arduino processors.

We used to use a old Black and decker drill press and a Scale
The Old drill press was also great for compressing shocks to get out the keepers also.
One like this that held a seperate drill
340827340828340829

[speedpro]

Prototype up and running with a variable resistor in place of the load cell.

I had thought of something like that drill press but want to be able to measure the pressure without removing the engine

[husaberg]

Prototype up and running with a variable resistor in place of the load cell.

I had thought of something like that drill press but want to be able to measure the pressure without removing the engine

True your way is far flasher too.
More digital this
340842 https://www.jegs.com/i/Proform/778/66834/10002/-1
I remember someone telling me how they set valve clearances in the production line with convention tappet adjusters not a feller gauge and spanner in sight.
The B and D Drill press is very close to the old proper tool used for Shock springs
although the new ones are a bit different
340839340840340841

[speedpro]

Moving right along, I've been looking at generating a few amps. Only trouble was the only sensible way was to fit the standard alternator rotor. All good for making amps but there is the little problem of one of the 4 trigger teeth being a longer one. Word from the Link forum was that it would not work. Given the options I thought I'd give it a try anyway. I marked the rotor timing marks that you are supposed to look at through a little screw hole in the cover with white paint. I then cut a spare damaged cover so it held the sensor in position but so the white mark could be seen at any point in the rotation. This was done so I could see where the mark was when turning the motor after I reset the trigger to be a 4-tooth disc. Something called the "Trigger Offset" needed to be adjusted to align the timing marks. I got it in the ballpark and then for precision set the "Ref Timing" to 0' and made the final adjustments to line the TDC marks up when turning the motor using the ignition timing TDC mark. Put the plugs back in, fuel on, gave the back wheel a yank in 3rd gear and it fired up first time. It is not obvious that a change has been made which is perfect. The dyno will tell for sure of course.
Now I just need to fit the pickup to the good sidecover and fit it with the generator stator. Once wired I'll have a nice supply of power and a workable trigger system.

Bit annoying to think of the time and cost of getting the trigger discs cut and fitted.

[TZ350]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/apdcXyfruzc" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

The Old No 6 kissing 30hp... and was eventually the first Bucket I know of to better the magic 30.

[speedpro]

To be sure the Link ECU works properly with the 4 teeth on the rotor the long tooth needs to be cut down to the same length as the other 3. I didn't really want to shorten the tooth without being able to balance the rotor. I also wanted to see how balanced the rotor was to start with. It only took most of the day but made the shaft pictured to fit the rotor onto. Dropped it on a couple of V blocks and the longer tooth went to the bottom. Turned the shaft 180' relative to the rotor to make sure it wasn't the shaft causing the result and the rotor stopped in exactly the same place repeatedly. The long tooth is clearly on the heavy side of the rotor. Pretty confident now to shorten the tooth and also have the rotor balanced better than standard.
I understand there may be imbalances across the width of the rotor but I suspect it will be immaterial.

[husaberg]

An even smaller version
https://minkara.carview.co.jp/search/?q=IHI+RHF25
The little one the Cx500 and the kei class 660 cars was the 31
looks like some Kei class and some Toyota Prius have these.

IHI RHF25 17201-B2061 [General information] The world's smallest and lightest-class turbocharger developed by IHI in 2008

Garret also do a little one now as well GT06
http://turbochargerspecs.blogspot.com/2013/03/garrett-gt06-gt0632sz-32-trim-80-hp.html

[speedpro]

Found out something interesting when talking to Rob today. I've never been sure about how the teeth get on a rotor. Rob was saying the teeth are pressed from the inside of the rotor, obviously into a die up against the outside so the tooth assumes the desired shape. This might explain the imbalance if the rotor was balanced before the teeth were pressed which would mean it was also balanced before the magnets were installed. Hard to believe if it is true. I'm going to see if I can use the shaft to check the other rotors which have different tapers. If they are all heavy where the long tooth is, balancing before pressing is the only answer.

[speedpro]

Amazing what having both days off in a weekend can do for your sense of wellbeing.
I've shortened the long tooth using my high speed grinder and finished it with a file and emery tape. This changed the heavy side to the opposite. Drilled 3 holes on the outer face not on the perimeter, as per all 3 rotors that I have. The actual balance point moved about a bit so I was enlarging one hole and then another depending on which one was at the bottom. Finally a point 90' around indicated heavy but there was very little in it so I left it there. I now have it all wired up with proper connectors for the Yamaha pickup to the ECU wiring. The generator coils go to the reg/rec and the output of that goes direct to battery +ve which then goes to the main loom through a switch. I have also designated Aux1 output as a tacho output. The Link outputs a 12V pulse on tacho outputs for every ignition event. I'm not sure but it may end up going from reading 1/2 engine speed to 2X engine speed. We'll see. I'm sure there will be a configuration I can change to get it right. Obviously I enabled the tacho sweep at startup function.

[Grumph]

What tacho are you using ? The stocker uses the ignitor side of one coil as a signal generator. Has it's own power supply and earth.

[speedpro]

What tacho are you using ? The stocker uses the ignitor side of one coil as a signal generator. Has it's own power supply and earth.
Standard tacho. Of course with the direct fire ignition each coil is only firing half as often as there is no paired cylinder firing on the exhaust stroke and 360' later on it's compression stroke. Each coil only fires every 720'.

I tried to start it tonight but had no luck. I'll try reversing the trigger polarity tomorrow and give it another go. It sort of made a few noises but it's fairly easy to start now so i've got something wrong and the crank pickup polarity is the most likely thing.

[speedpro]

Well that was a bit depressing. Tried to start it and there were a few noise like it wanted to but no luck. Quick test by swapping crank pickup leads over and it fired up but not a happy motor. Went over it last night and reasonably certain I had the wiring right to start with so put it back. Pulled off a few extra wires I had added and ready for a test tonight. After a bit of thought I'm hoping it's just the shortened tooth that has put the base timing out so will check that the next time my helper is available. On the Link support forum it was suggested a while back that the long tooth was going to cause problems as the timing is taken from the centre of the tooth.
It did run OK with the long tooth although I never loaded it up, just free-running on the stands. I did think that it sounded slightly different to when I was using the 6-tooth trigger disc and maybe there was a timing difference cylinder to cylinder with the long tooth.

[speedpro]

All sorted. With the tooth shortened the timing retarded about 35'. No wonder it wasn't interested in running. I reset the base timing, put it back together, and it started about 3rd pull. It starts a lot easier with the fuel pump fuse in. Got the generator all plugged in and charging the lithium battery so can just take it wherever and fire it up. Probably time to put the turbo back on and get back to the dyno.

[speedpro]

Thanks to rob for motivating me to go and have a play today. We messed with it a bit but there was a bunch of horsepower missing. Thinking about it on the way home I think the wastegate may have been stuck and when I put on the new turbo outlet pipe I may have disturbed it so it worked. We did heaps of runs tidying up the fuel and ignition anyway. As a final thing I had rob hold the wastgate closed with a screwdriver. Woohoo h:2thumbsup horsepower is back, and then some. I had a few limits set in the "Engine Protection" area, revs at 14,000 and MAP to 1.4BAR. Upped the revs to 15,000 and the MAP to 2.0BAR and got the result in the attachment. I think the engine was still hitting a limit, possibly RPM but maybe MAP as well. Both shot up quickish at the end of a run and then stopped.

I think Rob and I both got a good dose of exhaust fumes. The wife certainly was not impressed with how I smelled when I got home.

Pretty happy.

[Grumph]

Have you any way of tracking boost against RPM ? The power curve suggests boost is late arriving.

Been talking to a rally team locally who run a couple of AP4 cars - and finding out how they tailor the curve.
They're limited in total boost - and rpm - so the widest spread is desirable. Odd cam timings to achieve it too.

[F5 Dave]

Nice progress Mike.

[speedpro]

Looking over the log file there is a real limit with the current injectors. I have less than the recommended minimum injector pulsewidth at 3000rpm and it is a bit rich. At 15,000rpm+ and with boost, the ECU is trying for 10.18ms pulsewidth but there is only 7.5ms(@16,000rpm) available time for a complete cycle. The lambda reading leans out as the revs and boost rises. Manifold pressure peaked at 2.3BAR absolute or about 19lbs boost. Looks like staged injection is required unless I run it RICH at low rpm. Something else to try. I'll post a graph of boost, rpm, throttle once I figure how to take a snapshot of the screen

[speedpro]

Graphs attached. As Grumph suggested, the boost rises pretty quick at the end. There is all sorts of interesting stuff to be gleaned just from this one run. Most concerning is the injector limitations. A rising rate fuel pressure regulator might be an option, especially if it can be used to reduce fuel pressure off-boost. That might introduce issues with atomization though.

[husaberg]

Graphs attached. As Grumph suggested, the boost rises pretty quick at the end. There is all sorts of interesting stuff to be gleaned just from this one run. Most concerning is the injector limitations. A rising rate fuel pressure regulator might be an option, especially if it can be used to reduce fuel pressure off-boost. That might introduce issues with atomization though.

http://turbochargerspecs.blogspot.com/2013/03/garrett-gt06-gt0632sz-32-trim-80-hp.html

http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n441/tremorfalcon/IHIRHB31CompressorMapModified.jpghttp://1.bp.blogspot.com/-WZL9eDtdrxM/UTZiOaejfMI/AAAAAAAABXo/8zKqN_dUT5c/s1600/Garrett+GT06+Turbocharger+GT0632SZ+Compressor+Map+ Honeywell+600x746+www.TurbochargerSpecs.Blogspot.c om.jpg

[Grumph]

Without looking at what Husa has posted, I'm sure the fuel pressure thing is solvable. I wouldn't worry too much about poor atomisation at low revs - a carb after all, works well at small depressions. Squirting it in at even a low pressure should work better.

The boost coming in well up the range is also amenable to fixing. I seem to remember way back in the thread, your exhaust collector/manifold is tapered ?
A smaller volume, parallel wall, higher velocity collector might give results over a wider range. It's a question of tailoring everything to the turbo you've got.

I must get back onto mine.....Wallace was out here the other weekend and wanted to hear it running. So do I.

[TZ350]

Looking over the log file there is a real limit with the current injectors. I have less than the recommended minimum injector pulsewidth at 3000rpm and it is a bit rich. At 15,000rpm+ and with boost, the ECU is trying for 10.18ms pulsewidth but there is only 7.5ms(@16,000rpm) available time for a complete cycle.

Time to look at staged injection.

I am totally impressed, you were the first person in Buckets to make 30 rwhp with a two stroke then the first to do it again with a four stroke...... :not:

[speedpro]

So, definitely the plan is to relocate the turbo to directly in front of the engine with the shortest possible headers to the turbo. Compressor output around side of engine where turbo currently is, through a single throttle body, to plenum, and into intakes where injectors will be. Plenty of custom bits to make so it's a slightly longer term plan.

On the more immediate plan is a rising rate regulator which is already fitted. I've also cracked open the throttle just a little using the throttle stop and recalibrated the TPS. Cracking the throttle open is to make it a little easier to start and also raise the idle. Both benefited from a little throttle. I haven't fired it up again yet. I've also ordered a wastegate boost pressure variable bleed bypass. I made one ages ago which worked great on a Nissan Gazelle but I gave it to the guy who owned the car. For $30 it wasn't worth making another one. It goes between the manifold and the wastegate bellows to delay opening the wastegate. Hopefully the increased fuel pressure on boost will ease the fuelling problems. Of course it means another session on the dyno or maybe on the rolling road to start with. The rolling road is great for getting things right at a more or less constant rpm and load.

So much to do, and the new scooter bits are on the way. Watercooled this time so need pump, radiator, fan, fan controller, and heaps of fabrication. One big headache trying to fit everything in.

Still interested in a CBR, or similar, throttle body for the turbo if anyone has one they are willing to part with. I haven't looked closely at one yet so wouldn't mind the opportunity to do that as well.

[husaberg]

So, definitely the plan is to relocate the turbo to directly in front of the engine with the shortest possible headers to the turbo. Compressor output around side of engine where turbo currently is, through a single throttle body, to plenum, and into intakes where injectors will be. Plenty of custom bits to make so it's a slightly longer term plan.

On the more immediate plan is a rising rate regulator which is already fitted. I've also cracked open the throttle just a little using the throttle stop and recalibrated the TPS. Cracking the throttle open is to make it a little easier to start and also raise the idle. Both benefited from a little throttle. I haven't fired it up again yet. I've also ordered a wastegate boost pressure variable bleed bypass. I made one ages ago which worked great on a Nissan Gazelle but I gave it to the guy who owned the car. For $30 it wasn't worth making another one. It goes between the manifold and the wastegate bellows to delay opening the wastegate. Hopefully the increased fuel pressure on boost will ease the fuelling problems. Of course it means another session on the dyno or maybe on the rolling road to start with. The rolling road is great for getting things right at a more or less constant rpm and load.

So much to do, and the new scooter bits are on the way. Watercooled this time so need pump, radiator, fan, fan controller, and heaps of fabrication. One big headache trying to fit everything in.

Still interested in a CBR, or similar, throttle body for the turbo if anyone has one they are willing to part with. I haven't looked closely at one yet so wouldn't mind the opportunity to do that as well.

so its just to stop gate creep from when it opens lightly early

[speedpro]

Creep is still a problem but it starts at a higher boost level. Ideally I'd like to go with electronic boost control then there would be no creep with the advantage that it could spool up quicker.

[husaberg]

Creep is still a problem but it starts at a higher boost level. Ideally I'd like to go with electronic boost control then there would be no creep with the advantage that it could spool up quicker.

i remember on thre 3 and six cylinders one cylinder generally blew direct into the turbo.
I are wondering if you fed one straight and one curved arround and joinned in a collector if the second one being twice as long might even out the pulses a bit.
it wouldhave the lowest posible volume as well.
i thought just a solenoid and a simple yes no gate circuit with a variable bleed to control and a pressure sensor or just a pressure switch and a trim pot.

hardly any photos of a twin turbo 4 cylinder set up
I have a f1 turbo era da book her i wonder what the hart and the honda v6 set up was like.

[speedpro]

This motor has odd firing intervals as the pistons are one up one down, or a 180degree crank. There is no way there is ever going to be even pulses. The intervals are 0-180-540/0-180-540 etc.

When I had the big bike boost turned up to 19psi it would spool up to about 10-12psi real quick. Much quicker than when the boost was set to 12psi. At 19psi it would also wheelie in any gear at anything over about 6000rpm with 15:33 gearing, about 120mph in top.

With the bypass bleed you can increase the volume of the vacuum/boost lines with a little canister and it then takes a short time to build pressure to where the wastegate opens. This gives it a nice little momentary overboost and also helps it spool up as the wastegate is left completely closed for that little bit longer.

[F5 Dave]

Is there any way you can retime the engine to fire more regularly with custom cams opening all the valves as inlets, then perhaps a side port arrangement in the cylinder? Then you could run 180, 180, 180 etc.

[husaberg]

This motor has odd firing intervals as the pistons are one up one down, or a 180degree crank. There is no way there is ever going to be even pulses. The intervals are 0-180-540/0-180-540 etc.

.

if pipe A has an exhaust gas speed of 100m/M and is 5cm long
and pipe B has an exhaust gas speed of 100m/s and is 10cm long

are the 180 degree exhaust firing pulses going to arrive at exactly 180 degree apart at the turbo?
when one of them has to travel twice as far?
I wouldn't think so. While they will always start 180 apart, yes but will they finish at 1800 degrees apart.

from memory when i looked at them there was a way to use a CBR250 engine to make a 360 crank small twin.
as the cam drive was between 1 and 2. leaving a 360 crank in the middle. and the space to make it work.
342861
one of the big 4 250 fours, had a slightly shorter stroke (kawa i think) 2mm?
but from memory one of the 250 webs has a built in Primary?
as your 125cc engine still needs the stroke reigned in as well. which will give you of course 1/5 less exhaust gas to spool up the turbo. than what you have at present.
On on the fours i think had a slightly smaller boret than the FZR or there was a honda laydown that had a slightly smaller bore with dished pistons.
What was your plan? spray and weld or new billet crank?

[speedpro]

Is there any way you can retime the engine to fire more regularly with custom cams opening all the valves as inlets, then perhaps a side port arrangement in the cylinder? Then you could run 180, 180, 180 etc.

I see where you are going with that. Possibly making it a diesel as well while I'm at it? Sultzer would be proud.

[speedpro]

With very short equal length primaries direct to the turbo the pulses will arrive 180 apart, and then nothing for a while. The thing is that there is a very limited amount of energy in the exhaust of a small twin. Looking at it now the best option is probably to get the greatest amount of that energy into the turbo and never mind the niceties. You only have to look at the average car turbo manifold to see that it probably doesn't matter.

[husaberg]

With very short equal length primaries direct to the turbo the pulses will arrive 180 apart, and then nothing for a while. The thing is that there is a very limited amount of energy in the exhaust of a small twin. Looking at it now the best option is probably to get the greatest amount of that energy into the turbo and never mind the niceties. You only have to look at the average car turbo manifold to see that it probably doesn't matter.

Which is a log manifold
like a early Charade or GTR had.
As you say they paid no heed the equal length.
But they always aimed one port direct at the turbo right down to one valve port in a skylne 24v or 12v charade
342856
342855
i cant find a racing skyline one but they looked like this anyway

this is what i suggesting at the start of the page.
342857
but as Greg said about 40 pages ago it shouldn't be as big an big issue with the 180 twin compared to the 120 triple as the ex valves wont be open on two cylinders at the same time.
which might be why they sometimes split the feed into the turbo into two parts.
But by by offseting it to one side as in the rough pic you will cut down the plumbing on the boost side also, if you go around the side.
but if you are going to intercooling it, will you will be going over the Top?

thi is what i found to be one of the most efficient ans shortest designs
342859342858342860
More Davenport than Ohakea
but less bulk in the wrong places. Even if air to air is likely better.

[speedpro]

Back on the dyno today after fitting the rising rate fuel pressure regulator and the boost controller. Initial results were encouraging although as it was going overly rich early as boost rose, a lot of the low down power was lost. Hard on the boost it leapt up the revs. Only the ECU rev limiter and boost limit stopped it running away. Had lots of red flashing on the screen a couple of times.

[speedpro]

I checked the plugs after I got home. This one was looking pretty good, possibly a bit hot but it is a standard heat range plug.

[speedpro]

This plug was a bit harder to read

[F5 Dave]

Think that's rich. Try heat it under a flame to burn off extra oil and it will be fine for another 50,000.

[F5 Dave]

Back on the dyno today after fitting the rising rate fuel pressure regulator and the boost controller. Initial results were encouraging although as it was going overly rich early as boost rose, a lot of the low down power was lost. Hard on the boost it leapt up the revs. Only the ECU rev limiter and boost limit stopped it running away. Had lots of red flashing on the screen a couple of times.

Wow a bucket that does 32.3hp:banana:

For 8 rpm.

If I were a capricious man I'd make an unfavourable comparison to my 50.

But it turns out I'm not a revenge type of guy..:cool:

[speedpro]

It does new meaning to "power spike". Rebuilt it will hopefully be good for 18,000. The 3-4,000rpm should make it more useable and like I said I need to take fuel out below the peak to fatten it up which will make it less spikey

[speedpro]

Pulled the motor and took the exhaust, intake, and turbo off. Even the intake port had grit in it. The plenum chamber for the exhaust had a collection of small pieces of probably piston and there was even a small piece wedged in the exhaust port. I'm hoping the turbo is still OK but it will depend on whether anything managed to make it up and out of the plenum. I had to dismantle the turbo to get at one turbine housing bolt. I still can't move it so gave up before I get rough. Love these little turbines, such nice engineering.

[speedpro]

One good reason i went with the Link ECU was it's ability to log data when in use. An example of what can be done is in the image below. Not shown in this image is a table of desired lambda values at various rpm and manifold pressures.

The top left table is simply the fuel table. The values in each cell indicate the fuel quantity to be injected.
The top right "Mixture Map" table is a comparison of the desired lambda versus what was actually measured. Each cell has various values including the number of samples taken to arrive at the value.
On the bottom is a plot. In this case it is for a single run on the dyno. The plot has been expanded to only show the one run but in fact the whole time the motor was running values were being recorded. The cursor is at -3:20 at which time the engine is doing 11,000rpm and the manifold pressure is 120kPa and lambda is bottomed out at .7 or REALLY rich.

At this point you could simply enter a smaller value in the highlighted cell in the fuel table. Then drag the cursor to somewhere else on the time plot and repeat the process.

Or, you could look in the Mixture Map in the cell at the intersection of 11,000rpm and 120kPa. 410 samples were used to arrive at the listed values in the cell. The error is 0.09 which is the difference between the desired lambda(0.79) and the actual lambda(0.7).

Simply double clicking the Mixture Map cell will have the correction calculated and applied to the value in the associated cell in the fuel table.

It is possible to double click a blank cell in the Mixture Map and update every cell in the fuel map for which there was recorded data in the Mixture Map.

The values in the mixture map come from the data log. In this particular case the single data log was for the whole time the engine was running and was above a fairly low rpm value. What data is recorded can be configured and at what sampling rate

[speedpro]

The cell in the Mixture Map has been double clicked and is now blue indicating the values have been used to calculate a correction.
The matching cell in the fuel table now has the calculated value in it and is now orange indicating a new value.
The bottom row on the fuel table is all red. I added this row as the Y-axis didn't have a high enough value so I added a row with an extra, higher, value.(200kPa).

[speedpro]

It seems I now have a PHD in exploding engines. This one has been particularly thorough, even breaking a shim.

[F5 Dave]

That's really not very pretty. Time to start on the RHS of the original engine? Oh, you've sawed some of that in half.

[Grumph]

Ok, now I've seen the pics, I've fought my way on to comment.
The intact piston gives it away - as you'd know - the exhaust valves have been hitting the piston. This can only work for a very short time.
The reasons for it, I'd refer you back to my post much earlier about the problems with pressure spikes in the exhaust manifolds of turbo Subarus which were leading to similar results. You've said you are looking at reducing length and volume in your exhaust manifold, great, this should at least chenge the frequency of resonance - which may sort the problem.
I'd also change the xhaust cam timing - move it to a wider lobe center figure, say 111-112 degrees. Gives greater valve to piston clearance anyway.
Goes without saying you're looking for better springs....

Parts....well, I have quite a bit here. It's unlikely I'll build another cut engine and if the one already done goes pop, it'll probably be given away.
So bits are available. You arrange transpost and let me know what you need. Via grumphv2.

[F5 Dave]

Ahh Greg. Was wondering when youd get your internerd issues sorted. Glad to see you back on board

[sidecar bob]

Im trying to work out if the piston has been slapping the head, indicating a run big end, or if thats reflection off the bore.

[Grumph]

Ahh Greg. Was wondering when youd get your internerd issues sorted. Glad to see you back on board

I haven't and for most purposes, I'm not...The post this morning took 45 minutes, this so far around 30. Spark high speed fiber doesn't want to interface with Vodafone dialup so apparently sends it via the moon. Middle of next year we should be in a position to upgrade connection and equipment.
I look occasionally but I'd only log on if I have the time and it's something I'm interested in or can help. Nothing on TV atm....

Bob, have a look at the pic of the good piston and note the perfect circles where there should be carbon under the exhaust valves.

There's a problem with the sheer size of the valves too. I don't know how much spring pressure those thin stems can hold. I remember the batch of ZZR1100 kawa ex valves that pulled through the collets. I had to rebuild a speedway sidecar engine that dropped 3 valves at idle in the pits...
It might prove necessary to make up some valves with the common 5.5mm stems to get the mechanical strength.

[sidecar bob]

Yeah, the valves hitting was the first thing that I noticed, a run big end will cause that too as you are no doubt very aware, that's when I started looking harder to see if it was a PTV issue, or a bottom end problem.

[speedpro]

I was certain that I had used the later 3LN pistons and rods but I have used the older 2KR bits. If I can get the bits I'll go with 3LN parts for the rebuild including the head. Keeping it all stock, apart from cutting it in half, should make it reliable.

Just a very quick check and the crank and rods seem ok, by feel only at the moment. I don't think this piston would have been good for many more miles though. Obviously trying to compress an exhaust valve was a bit much.

[sidecar bob]

A simple way to check piston to valve is to open the valve off the cam with a screwdriver & put a 1mm spacer/ feeler blade in between the bucket & cam & rotate the engine, providing the spring dosent crush, any resistance felt will be piston to valve interference.
Or, I put it at minimum PTV, put the dial gauge on the spring retainer & open the valve until it contacts the piston & record the dial gauge movement.
Some use plasticine, the reason I don't is because if it's all good I just keep bolting the thing together.

[speedpro]

That first bit is a neat trick. It's a bit hard to determine the point of minimum VTP clearance. As Grumph suggested, you can change cam timing to alter clearance, it also alters the crankshaft degrees at which the minimum clearance happens

[Grumph]

All the large lumps I have here are 2KR. Amongst the assortment from Husa was at least one 3LN rod and a couple of pistons. No idea how they got in there...
The 3LN is the long rod/short piston combo. Barrels are the same height. Heads i think are also same-same. 3LN cams according to an aussie are actually milder than 2KR.
I have a pretty complete 2KR which has dropped a valve on the left hand end if it's any use.

Whatever bits you use, I'd still move the cams out a tad. Std looks to be around 105/106 lobe centers, I'd go to 107/110.

[sidecar bob]

That first bit is a neat trick. It's a bit hard to determine the point of minimum VTP clearance. As Grumph suggested, you can change cam timing to alter clearance, it also alters the crankshaft degrees at which the minimum clearance happens

You just rotate the engine over a couple of turns with the spacer in, you don't even need to know where minimum is.
All you're doing is adding 1mm or whatever you decide to the max valve lift & seeing what happens.

[speedpro]

Sorry, my post wasn't clear I understand that, which is why I thought it was a neat trick.

[speedpro]

Been busy giving the motor a clean out. Quite surprising where the little chips of aluminium had got to. Also reminded me about just what a nice bit of gear the FZR engine is.

Took a couple of photos of the gear selector shaft and mechanism. Clips and hardened steel washers on each end to stop the shaft moving about, and a really nice shift mechanism. The FXR guys might be interested in how it should be done

[speedpro]

Couple more photos. Even the clutch pushrod is special. Between this and the clutch is a ball bearing which transfers pressure to the clutch mechanism through another little shaft which has a seal on it. Oil is fed into the shaft at the other end and lubricates the gears as it flows along and finally the needle roller bearing that the clutch spins on the shaft on. Each side of the bearing are ground hardened steel washers to locate the hub the bearing spins on and the clutch on top of that. Given that the primary gears are straight cut anyway it's a bit of effort to keep everything straight and lined up. Check out the width of the needle roller bearing.

[speedpro]

The primary gears aren't too thick but have been thinned down each side anyway.

[speedpro]

Managed to undo the last bolt on the turbine housing and thankfully there is no damage to the turbo. Took a couple of photos of this as well to show just how cool a bit of gear it is and how small

[speedpro]

Lastly just a few of the crank showing where I hacksawed it in half and then turned the cut web into a round boss in case I wanted to mount anything on it. When I was doing this I had no idea of the end result, so tried to leave options open. Had to block the oil gallery in the end of the crank and also in the crankcase where there was missing crankshaft.

[sidecar bob]

Do you rekon it's worth giving those con rods a wee holiday since they were punching above their weight for a bit there?
I'm guessing you have another couple lying around.
If you wanted to you could re cut the crank just outboard of the cam chain drive.
Virtually all car cranks aren't supported beyond the sprocket.
It would cut down the rotating mass (not always good) & reduce internal friction, releasing a small amount more HP.

[speedpro]

Both good ideas, the rods especially. The boss might still be useful. Crank inertia with the standard rotor is adequate but not excessive. Throttle response was better with just the trigger disc and not the heavy rotor but I need electricity so it stays. A smaller lighter one would probably be OK but it doesn't bother me too much. Got plenty to do before that becomes the next job. The real bonus to removing the crank past the sprocket is that the cam chain could be replaced without disassembling the motor, not that it's likely.

[Grumph]

My crank is cut just past the sprocket. One less mainbearing to worry about.
I considered the possibilty of needing a drive off that end - and rejected it as I couldn't see how to access it.

The rods are surprisingly nuggety. At least as big a section as 400 kawasaki rods.

[speedpro]

Access is an issue for sure. The only way I can see a sensor working off a trigger on the end of the crank is if the sensor was mounted on an external boss and went through the crankcases. Even then it would be a nightmare and need the trigger wheel mounted on the crank before assembly of the cases.

[sidecar bob]

What are the turbo specs & what was it lifted from?
I put an IHI RHB51 off a Honda City on a R100rs BMW many years ago.

[speedpro]

RHB51? - monster turbo.

This one is an IHI RHB31A from a Suzuki Cappucino, I think. I've got a supercharger from an aftermarket kit for one as well

[speedpro]

After much pondering of my pile of bits I've decided to use the 2KR bottom crankcase half as it is already modified, a 3LN top crankcase half as it has the underskirt oilers, and probably a piece of 3LN crank to replace the 2KR piece. I was surprised how much was different between the 2 crankshaft models, see photo below. Measuring the crank journals it is interesting the differences between crankshafts. Each crankshaft has more or less the same diameter journals but between cranks it varies a bit. One crank big end journal also seem so have a taper across it's width.

[Grumph]

Are you going to keep the extra piece of crank past the camchain sprocket ?

I did a lot of hand finishing of oil gallery holes on my crank. The angled drillings on the mains in particular need radiusing - badly.
This was then finished up with a linish by a reconditioner mate.

Good to see some decisions being made - that's always the hard bit, LOL.
Mine's on the point of being ridden.

[speedpro]

More measuring and test fitting been going on. I have to use matched top & bottom crankcase halves. Odd pairs cause the crank to bind when the bolts are torqued up.
I've measured a pile of rods. There is a bit of variation between models of rod. Rods with a C on them are all very similar length. Those with a D the same, and so on. Cs, Ds, and others are all slightly different lengths. I will be using a new pair or rods as the old ones were 2KR short rods combined with 2KR pistons.
I've also measured every piston I have. I can't see identifying marks on the pistons but slight differences in the finish of the castings suggest different batches. Again, pistons within a batch are all very similar size, and the different batches are slightly different.
I've decided to be lazy and simply replace the damaged sleeve, maybe both, and just need to measure the sleeves to find a pair that match pistons I decide to use. I've got a telescopic gauge to measure the bores which I then measure with the micrometer. I can be reasonably consistent with the measurements but I'm not satisfied just yet. I might just go with a "go/no-go" type system first and then actually measure the smaller bores. Interestingly it doesn't look like there is much wear in the bores/pistons.
I have also cleaned the cylinder heads to help with checking them out. I just hose them afterwards and then blow the majority of the water off using a duster gun. Very interesting how many bubbles come form the valves when blowing air up the ports.

After going over so many parts with a micrometer I can see how people are able to build a better engine just using standard parts.

I received LiPo batteries from China month or so back and the fancy charger a few weeks back. I've cycled the batteries a few times like they suggest and the batteries all picked up capacity after cycling. I got 2 types, 3 cell(3S) and 4 cell(4S). The 3S batteries are rated at 11.1V and the 4S batteries are rated at 14.8V. Both are higher voltage when charged and the 11.1 is over 12V so perfect for a bucket. The 4S might be a bit high voltage so I might put a diode or two in series and see. Each cell in each battery is rated at 3.7V but is fully charged at 4.2V.

I also have an original powerblade lithium battery. The charger knows about these LiFe batteries and happily charged it to the recommended voltage and also discharged it to the minimum voltage. It monitors power applied which was a smidge over 2200mAH. With this charger you can charge/discharge batteries to the optimum voltage for storage, so they are now all stacked on the shelf at the recommended voltage for each battery. For $23 the charger seems to cover every common option, NiMH, Pb, Li(3 types), and another one I don't recall.

[speedpro]

Happy times in the garage this arvo. Working on putting a couple of good sleeves into the modified cylinder block. I thought it was interesting that after heating and removing the sleeves from the original blocks that they were a small amount larger in the bore. The first 2 I removed were both approx 47.986-8mm diameter in the block. I measured them multiple times over a couple of days while I was deciding what I was doing. Once removed they both measured 48.020 approx. i pulled a 3rd one as well and it increased in size a similar amount. I have dropped 2 of them into the modified block but the sleeves have maintained the larger size. I might go through the heating cycle I used to remove the sleeves but not remove them from the spare blocks to see if the measured size changes.
I gave the block a really good clean with Handy Andy and a brillo pad and cleaned the sleeves inside and out to make sure there was nothing to interfere with fitting them and also looking for damage. I don't know how many miles the engines have done but there is no bore wear. I have a number of pistons that measure approx 47.952mm. These combined with the installed sleeves will result in piston clearance a bit over the supposed service limit of .06mm. The data I have says the bore service limit is 48.1mm which would mean a huge piston clearance.
The sleeves I am using are from a 3LN block. The top lip is fractionally smaller than the lip on the 2KR sleeves so the sleeves sit slightly below the block deck. Depends how long this lockdown lasts I could end up filing it.
If possible I'll get a couple of new orings for the bottom of the block around the sleeves. The old ones have assumed a flat inside and outside profile and I would think are providing a bit less reliable seal. Or I'll sit them in a fillet of high temp red in the groove.
The crankshaft might get hacksawed tomorrow. I checked the oil gallery drillings on the crank after Grumph said something about them in his Sensible Twin page. The holes have ridiculously sharp edges. Obviously it hasn't had a detrimental effect, but it is a bit offensive.

[speedpro]

I compared the standard lobe centres versus what Franklin Cams suggested in 2000 after measuring the cams on their machine. Franklin's suggestion was to retard the intake 7degrees and the exhaust advanced 3 degrees compared to what I now know is standard. Pretty good suggested timings considering that at the time I had no idea where they should be

[speedpro]

Another busy afternoon in the garage. The crankshaft has been cut and cleaned up. Took to it with the hacksaw and cleaned it up using the angle grinder with a flap disk. It almost seemed a crime to cut the crankshaft in half.

[speedpro]

Useful to have in the garage

[Grumph]

Last time I put liners in that were too thin at the lip, I made up brass spacers which left the liner slightly proud of the block.
They were then surface ground back. Honda CBX550 liners in Suzuki Impulse for what seemed like good reasons at the time....

I'd radius the oil holes on the crank. Easy enough with the 10mm ball grinding tip which comes in the cheap assortment with a die grinder.
It hasn't happened as std - but with load on it under boost.....
I've seen too many fucked cranks from this cause, I just do it anyway.

O rins on the bottom of the barrel. Have a look at what the barrel sits on - they're against unsupported gasket mainly.
I left mine out as there's a 4mm plate under my barrel.

[speedpro]

There was just the smallest amount of evidence that something had gone down the outside of the sleeves. It cleaned off with the brillo pad.

I think when new, the o-rings were a pretty tight fit. The tight fit held them in place and made the seal.

I had a good look at the oil holes on the crank. At the hole where oil enters the crank the edges are not radiused or chamfered at all. The exit holes to the bearings have a small angled cut. I started grinding the very end hole that feeds oil in and then stopped after thinking about it a bit. I think on the input holes having a chamfer is actually a disadvantage as it tends to take oil out of the hole. I doubt I'll do any more more grinding on the crankshaft

[Grumph]

Disagree with your theory re the feed holes in main bearing journals. The initial entry volume is arrived at by pressure in the hydrostatic film - and orifice size.
A nicely radiused entry has a slightly larger area and less resistance to flow.
Once the oil is in, cetrifugal force tends to pump it to the bigend.

I seldom have to radius crank holes now as the lesson has been learned and the factories are doing it properly - except for the odd Honda....
Certainly all the late sports bike cranks are fully radiused.

[speedpro]

Another great day for working/playing in the garage. Made three grub screws to block the cranhshaft galleries in the unused side. The end one is 8mm as that hole was a size bigger than the other 2. Simple bit of threaded bolt with a cross cut in the end. Screwed them in with loctite, splayed the cross with a punch and then centre punched the alloy into the ends of the slots. They aren't going anywhere. It's getting to the point where I might give cutting the cylinder head a go. If there are no further posts over the weekend it means it didn't go well.

[TZ350]

.

Speedpro, I like your work.

I have found it is amazingly easy to make good square cuts in alloy castings with a common old wood working drop saw. Use a blade with as many teeth as possible. For safety's sake its probably best to clamp the work piece but I was able to just steady it by hand, just like you would if it was a piece of wood you were cutting. The wood saw blade cut the alloy casting real easily without catching.

345348

[husaberg]

.

Speedpro, I like your work.

I have found it is amazingly easy to make good square cuts in alloy castings with a common old wood working drop saw. Use a blade with as many teeth as possible. For safety's sake its probably best to clamp the work piece but I was able to just steady it by hand, just like you would if it was a piece of wood you were cutting. The wood saw blade cut the alloy casting real easily without catching.

345348

Do you not reverse the teeth direction Rob?
we always used to for Thick alloy sheet, make a hell of a scream though?

[TZ350]

Do you not reverse the teeth direction Rob? we always used to for Thick alloy sheet, make a hell of a scream though?

No. Just used it as is. Same with skill sawing thick alloy plate, 10 and 12 mm. I do reverse the blade for galvanized roofing though. Best not to use tungsten tipped blades in reverse.

[husaberg]

No. Just used it as is. Same with skill sawing thick alloy plate, 10 and 12 mm. I do reverse the blade for galvanized roofing though. Best not to use tungsten tipped blades in reverse.
I use a grinder with a cut off wheel for the roofing iron.
Had a mate put a tungsten tipped saw blade on his weedwacker it exploded off on the first rock it touched and embedded itself in his shin, its still there to remind him.

[Grumph]

We don't know what Mike is using. I used a bandsaw to cut mine with a bimetal blade as I could see it was going to hit a core plug at one point.
My skilsaw - which I use to cut lumps off alloy sheet and plate before fine work with the bandsaw - doesn't have enough depth of cut for the head or barrel.

When i did the barrel, I dropped the liner out which was in the way of the cut, Much easier.

[speedpro]

I've got a reasonably nice dropsaw and carbide tipped blades. Today I had pretty much decided not to do it and just wait until after lockdown. Not so sure now.

Been down in the garage a bit more doing work on the head I will probably use. I found a packet of 8 valve guide seals which look like the correct ones. They also look brand new in comparison to a couple I pulled out. The number on the MotoX packet also matches 3LN valve guide seals so it looks like that is sorted - thanks Grumph.

The 2KR model had 2 different rubber intake manifolds, neither of which I have used. The 3LN had 4 different manifolds. The inner manifolds, #2 & #3 had different stud positions and these manifolds were offset towards the centre of the engine. I use 2 of the #4 manifold. These bolted straight up to the 2KR head I was using but it doesn't bolt up to the #3 port on the new head. However, Yamaha have thoughtfully included a boss in the casting where the bolt wants to go so it was a simple matter of drilling and tapping a new hole. Another example of things falling into place for me on these engines.

The little tool I made to dismantle the valve spring retainers on my scooter fits the FZR valve spring retainers exactly so that made things easy. Once I got all the valves out it was really obvious that a number of the valves and seats were better than others. It's possibly due to valve clearances being too tight as the seats look like they have been hot. The ports were surprisingly rough and mismatched where the valve seat fits into the port. I had a bit of a play with my dremel on ports that aren't going to be used and it didn't take much to get them looking reasonable. I need to match the intake manifolds to the ports as well. The manifolds are 1mm smaller all around.

In the combustion chambers, around each valve, there is a pocket machined into the head. There's a lip about 1mm high most of the way around each valve. It doesn't look right from a flow perspective. In an unused chamber I took to them with the little 3mm ball grinder in the dremel. It looks a lot better to me, especially after I finished it off with the little sanding drum. The whole chamber looks a lot more smooth and blended. Where the flat gasket surface parts of the chamber meet the actual chamber I left the edges sharp. I don't know, but there's a possibility the edges might promote turbulence which will aid combustion velocity. Yamaha didn't seem to care so it's probably OK. This pocket around each valve is the same as in the aftermarket head I have on my scooter. I have cleaned that up.

Interestingly, when I was removing the valve springs I noted that all the intake springs had coloured ends. All the exhaust springs were plain. The springs look identical apart from the colour.

[Grumph]

Were those stem seals with the FZR stuff ? If so I was being more logical than usual.
I usually keep stem seals all together as there's a lot of cross usage - FJ1100 seals in my EX500 for example.
But the 250 stem size is one I'll probably never see anywhere else.

Coloured spring tops are quite common. All the major companies have done it.
One way of making assembly a little more idiot proof.
Invariably, it is the top which is coloured.

[speedpro]

Is there a difference between coloured and non-coloured springs?

[Grumph]

Is there a difference between coloured and non-coloured springs?

No idea. You'd have to measure them. Could be a different supplier, different batch of engines or even a different assembly plant.

[speedpro]

Cylinder head has been cut using the dropsaw. I had a new 60T carbide tipped blade so fitted that. I had to fit a few packers to get it at the angle for the cut. It came out OK in the end. The saw actually made a very nice cut. The blade produced chips of alloy just like if you were using a carbide tool in a lathe. I made about 10mm deep cuts until finally it went through. I accidentally left the spring seats in. I pulled the valve guides out and removed one exhaust stud as they were in the path of the blade or very close. The blade cut one spring seat and flicked the other one out. I filed it afterwards and it's come out pretty good I reckon. Good enough anyway.
One of the things I need to do now is cut the pocket in the end of the head where the disc on the end of the cam sits to locate the cam in the head. If I was really rough I reckon I could do a good enough job using the dremel and a grinding disc. The disc on the cam is 35mmX3mm.

[Grumph]

Yeah, Wallace cut mine. I think he used a woodruff keyway cutter in the mill.
The later head like you have are a bit different to your first go. Wallace was able to cut the slots in the right place that the cam sprockets lined up on center without any spacers.

[speedpro]

I've been fossicking round a bit more in the garage. I've cleaned the new head about as much as I can be bothered. I cleaned up intake and exhaust ports as they all had lips and ridges just in from the seats. All the valves are cleaned ready to be machined and fitted. I used alternatively a CRC parts cleaner and Selleys oven cleaner. I've been putting a bit of thought into why the valves may have been floating and spoken to a few people and there's a few conflicting ideas. I have also been thinking about the exhaust manifold and whether it could be improved. There seems merit in simplifying it to 2 short pipes with the turbo directly in front. Another thought was to have one short pipe and the 2nd cylinder pipe long enough to delay the pulse 180 crankshaft degrees. This would result in even exhaust pulses at the turbo but only at certain revs. There is sooooo many variables I had to take what is supposedly a typical gas flow velocity and go from there. The longer pipe needs about an additional 2m if I maintain the diameter as it is. That'll be fun to make. Throw a bit of exhaust wrap on and a brown seat and it should be all good. There's pluses and minuses in everything. It still isn't obvious the cause of the valve float, to me anyway.
I've also been considering the combustion chamber. The intake valves are in machined pockets with about 1mm high lips. I thought about grinding them and blending the pockets into the chamber. After a bit more thought I can see that the lips on the exhaust port side, at low lift during valve overlap, may direct the incoming charge into the cylinder rather than into the exhaust port. As the lift increases the flow will be into the chamber over the closed exhaust port with the lip having little effect.
It's nearly as bad as 2-strokes.