Affordable four-stroke single GP bikes?

[slowpoke]

Found an interesting article on a possible new class in the States, which involves converting 4 stroke MX bikes into GP style road race bikes. Slick little machines and simple to build.

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/Article_Page.aspx?ArticleID=6024

[merv]

You've seen the Tigcraft racing here eh?

[Tim 39]

Found an interesting article on a possible new class in the States, which involves converting 4 stroke MX bikes into GP style road race bikes. Slick little machines and simple to build.

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/Article_Page.aspx?ArticleID=6024

why so much hype about these bikes? to be honest I cant undersatnd why everyone is so excited about basicly a slow and heavy 125GP bike. If they're any cheaper to run I'd be both shocked and amazed.

everyone seems to like 4 strokes because less skill is required to ride them, kind of like motogp, if ya want to do a start just push a button and it'll do it for you. If you keep getting on the power too soon and crashing, just adjust your traction control so you just open it up and it'll do it itself. It must be about time we made these bikes automatic so that you dont have to change gear, it'll decide when it should itself!

Whatever happened to the riders riding the bikes? back when the best rider won

[Badjelly]

why so much hype about these bikes? to be honest I cant undersatnd why everyone is so excited about basicly a slow and heavy 125GP bike.

As I understand it, Honda has lost interest in building two-stroke GP machines so the days of the GP125 are numbered. (And the GP250 is already defunct in most countries.)

I'd appreciate it if the two-stroke fanatics could refrain from verbal abuse, aspersions about my sexuality, violence, death threats, etc, for these comments. If I'm wrong I'd love to hear it. I have a soft spot myself for the ring-dings, but I think their days are numbered.

[Tim 39]

As I understand it, Honda has lost interest in building two-stroke GP machines so the days of the GP125 are numbered. (And the GP250 is already defunct in most countries.)

I'd appreciate it if the two-stroke fanatics could refrain from verbal abuse, aspersions about my sexuality, violence, death threats, etc, for these comments. If I'm wrong I'd love to hear it. I have a soft spot myself for the ring-dings, but I think their days are numbered.

yes I am aware their days are numbered, but for the people that think these would be so "awesome" like I've heard, I have no idea why they think it

[R6_kid]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEQx4hcBb7I

Good overview, and Kevin Schwantz gives his thoughts on them.

[Ivan]

The thing with the Moriwaki is its not a CRF450R its the CRF450X engine they use,

These engines are a lot less tuned andare alot more mellow the engine life is alot longer as they are not highly strung,

I believe that Moriwaki have come up with a great idea here and it would be a really good starting class as a pre GP125.

The real good one would be running CR KX RM etc 85cc enginesin either a RS or TZ chassis as they do over seas they are called motolite or Pre GP125 but having a way out here of starting it and having someone to build these bikes is the thing thats why the moriwaki idea is so good and makeit so you can only race them as they came no flowed heads or total loss igntions or removal of starter motors run em as a standered class with only allowable rules is tires and suspension spring weights as they run a Showa front and rear fully adjustabel setup

[quallman1234]

No such thing as a Affordable "GP" bike.

[R6_kid]

Just been doing a bit of research, would appear that Honda and Yamaha are onboard with the idea and at least in the States have development bikes in the works - the Yamaha is looking particularly tasty.

Looks like they may sell them as conversion kits too, and it wouldnt be too hard to switch between.

With the Yamaha they are using the 2008 WR450F as a basis, and looks like they've just added R6 front end, mounted up some nice race fairings, put a shock suitable for the track in the back and changed the rims and brakes to suit.

[Sketchy_Racer]

Just been doing a bit of research, would appear that Honda and Yamaha are onboard with the idea and at least in the States have development bikes in the works - the Yamaha is looking particularly tasty.

Looks like they may sell them as conversion kits too, and it wouldnt be too hard to switch between.

With the Yamaha they are using the 2008 WR450F as a basis, and looks like they've just added R6 front end, mounted up some nice race fairings, put a shock suitable for the track in the back and changed the rims and brakes to suit.

Right, because a motoX frame with about 10k of road gear on it will be cheap, and give you a well handling road race bike..

It is going to be the same as the motoX industry with these 250thumper gp bikes... They need double the capacity to even be compreditive. 125GP is called 125GP for a reason, it's not supposed to have a larger motor than 125..

People should stop being tree hugging pussys and learn how to race a real bike - a 2T GPbike

[R6_kid]

Right, because a motoX frame with about 10k of road gear on it will be cheap, and give you a well handling road race bike..


Did you even bother to watch the video? Kevin Schwantz himself said it handles pretty nice with just a few setup issues at the moment. There is also a video of Tigcraft 450 going relatively quickly around a track with 600's etc. It still puts the emphasis on the rider and that is what should matter in racing.

I love two strokes dont get me wrong. And when did I say anything about 125GP having bigger capacity engines in the series? It's the winds of change my friend.

The ideas floating around are either out of the box bikes, or a kit which i think would probably be around $5k on top of the price of the bike... which isn't that far off a full setup for a Motard anyway.

Just looking on ebay now, it'd cost around NZ$2k plus a rear shock to do the change myself. And if i wanted to add ohlins and brembos then of course its gonna cost more.

[Sketchy_Racer]

$2k? I think it would be safe to say that it's gonna be a tad more than $2k.

Wheels? easy $1500 for the likes of some 600sp rims

Forks? How much would a front end off a modern 600 cost? plus the required respringing and revalving to match new weight etc

Tripple clamps? Ok so you have forks, now you gotta hold them. Another few hundred. Plus, could possibly need to be a custom made job

Fairings? and mounting gear $1000? Plus paint rah rah

Foot peg hangers? Another few hundred

Shock? a MX one will NEVER cut the mustard on a road race track. $1500

Dash?

Tyres?

Brakes? Master cylinder?

It all adds up REAL quick, and trust me it will never be a cheap alternative to getting into racing.

As for being bigger than 125s, i got two thread mixed up, my bad

[limbimtimwim]

Right, because a motoX frame with about 10k of road gear on it will be cheap, and give you a well handling road race bike..Have you seen the frame on a modern RM-Z450 MX bike? People are racing right now and having a good time with a lot less than that. And that engine has fuel injection and a shitload of hotting up parts available if you are so inclined.

Something needs to lower the back and with something like an RGV front end, it could be fun.

Easier than shoving an engine like that into a road bike frame.

[scott411]

$14995 US for the bike built up using a yamaha base, never went into the parts pricing,

[quallman1234]

15$ Grand, You could probabaly get a well setup Superbike for that (NB - A couple years old). Plus who the hell at 13-18 have 15k to spend. (now if you hired the bikes that could be good!) Let along their parents.

Ultimately it's unrealstic unless you could buy em second hand for a decent price.
Then you have realibilty issues.

Yardy yardy.

No such thing as a Cheap GP bike as stated. In both sense - Inital Cost and Running costs.

[Blackflagged]

Maybe Super singles USA rules,Change the rules slightly,to suit NZ conditions.And limit bikes to at least,4yr old.4 yr old models would be better priced,would help MX guys get $$ for them,when they retire them,and they haven`t fallen to far to bits ,after 4yrs.

[HenryDorsetCase]

People should stop being tree hugging pussys and learn how to race a real bike - a 2T GPbike

Grow up.

For a number of reasons their (two stroke racers) days are numbered, so people (including manufacturers) are casting around for alternatives. There are enough threads about this and other suggested options both on KB and the whole interwebs (including Roland Sands' which is similar to this using 450MX bikes) that hopefully it will gain some momentum, and racing can continue.

Let me pose a hypothetical for you: You are a 16 or 17y.o. bored with 150cc racing, whats your next class? a 600SP, with 110hp and 180kg? An ooooold F3 bike? Maybe a ProTwin?

What do you do? What do you do? (to quote Dennis Hopper in "Speed")

[R6_kid]

$2k? I think it would be safe to say that it's gonna be a tad more than $2k.

Wheels? easy $1500 for the likes of some 600sp rims

Forks? How much would a front end off a modern 600 cost? plus the required respringing and revalving to match new weight etc

Tripple clamps? Ok so you have forks, now you gotta hold them. Another few hundred. Plus, could possibly need to be a custom made job

Fairings? and mounting gear $1000? Plus paint rah rah

Foot peg hangers? Another few hundred

Shock? a MX one will NEVER cut the mustard on a road race track. $1500



That was priced as per an auction on there for a complete front end with brakes, wheels, tripples, forks, bars etc. To fit you would probably only need to change the bearings in the headstock which may require some engineering but hardly anything difficult. Also doesnt need to be off a modern bike.

Mounts for fairings is $50-60 if you know what you are doing.

At the end of the day it comes down to how creative you are and how hard you research and look for the parts that will work well - if you make it hard for yourself then you only have yourself to blame.

[avgas]

And people thought i was bullshitting when i said the thumper class is the best

[Sketchy_Racer]

Grow up.

For a number of reasons their (two stroke racers) days are numbered, so people (including manufacturers) are casting around for alternatives. There are enough threads about this and other suggested options both on KB and the whole interwebs (including Roland Sands' which is similar to this using 450MX bikes) that hopefully it will gain some momentum, and racing can continue.

Let me pose a hypothetical for you: You are a 16 or 17y.o. bored with 150cc racing, whats your next class? a 600SP, with 110hp and 180kg? An ooooold F3 bike? Maybe a ProTwin?

What do you do? What do you do? (to quote Dennis Hopper in "Speed")

There days are numbered because people find it easier to win on a 'thumper' twice the capacitiy of a competing two stroke that has a big fat lazy power curve.

There days are numbered because the world giants (yanks etc) with thier big 20million litre chevy V8 gas guzzlers are saying that a minority automotive group (two strokes) are the sole reason for the hole in the ozone (proove to me that it even exists!)

So im a 17yo, im bored of 150ss and waay to broke to go 600 racing, f3 are too old so puts me off, pro twins doesn't have enough people in it, I know i'll got 125GP learn how to race properly, for not all that much more than it costs me to race the 150. But oh wait, now they want it to be 2504t GP bikes.. Great, now i can't afford it. What with all those expensive rebuilds that modern 4t needs.

As for Roland Sands saying a 450mx road racer rides great, I don't care who says it rides great, at the end of the day it's still going to be a motox bike pretending to be a road racer, and it will always show that.

[Sketchy_Racer]

That was priced as per an auction on there for a complete front end with brakes, wheels, tripples, forks, bars etc. To fit you would probably only need to change the bearings in the headstock which may require some engineering but hardly anything difficult. Also doesnt need to be off a modern bike.

Mounts for fairings is $50-60 if you know what you are doing.

At the end of the day it comes down to how creative you are and how hard you research and look for the parts that will work well - if you make it hard for yourself then you only have yourself to blame.

Yes, you are definatly right about it coming down to how creative and hands on you are about it. I bet i could manage a mint one for less than 5k. But i'm just one of those people that know how to make stuff, and get good deals.

But the fact is, not many people are that hands on and more people are getting less hands on as computers take over the world.

The idea is a cheap(ish), easy(ish) class to go "gp" racing in. I don't believe this will ever be the case with this.

[quallman1234]

No such thing as a Affordable "GP" bike.

Ill keep repeating it.

[Sketchy_Racer]

Ill keep repeating it.


For some reason I seem to hear a echo.......

[CHOPPA]

I think if i were 18 10k would not be outside the limits for an easy to ride race bike.

I had a quick look at trade me and it would be easy to do...
I am sticking with kawasaki for obvious reasons so if you went to say a honda you would be looking at even less as there 450s have been around since 02

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Dirt-bikes/auction-144207454/k-967196.htm

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=144157071

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Parts-accessories/Wheels-tyres-brakes/auction-144189858.htm

I realise the back wheel would be a bit wide but you get my drift...

Also for Kawasaki race fairings s/h i could prob sort something out $500
I have a zx6r rear shock you could adapt (actually 2) for $100

Get a tacho and shift light out of your civic wire up a temp gauge and iron out the finer details you would have a very interesting bike!

[CHOPPA]

and you would get around $800 back for the popular mx wheels

[R6_kid]

But the fact is, not many people are that hands on and more people are getting less hands on as computers take over the world.

The idea is a cheap(ish), easy(ish) class to go "gp" racing in. I don't believe this will ever be the case with this.

If people aren't hands on and getting involved then i doubt they would be racing in the first place, i know i wouldnt put my hard earn money down without the attitude of getting out there and doing it.

a 450 MX bike needs a rebuild every 50hours of moderate use, the rebuilds are pretty straight forward if you have a bit of knowledge, and i know some bikes actually come with their first rebuilt kit.

By the way watch the video... Kevin Schwantz himself says the same thing you are saying regarding the cost.

[CookMySock]

Not a single, but I'm surprised we don't hear more about GT650R's on the track. Under ten grand brand-spankers-new. $6-7k low-k's pre-loved.. How much more to spend to start the fun ? How much more on top of this to be competitive ?

DB

[Cleve]

I really like this idea. 250 conversions to race with 125's (enough talk put 'em together and let the games begin!) and 450's to F3. And please someone tell that man why the Hyosung is not such an easy switch to racing...

[ajturbo]

everyone seems to like 4 strokes because less skill is required to ride them,




Dam.. i MUST get one of these (4 Stroke)... looks like they should suit my skill level...

oh why .. oh why.... did you have to blow up christine??:angry2:

[R6_kid]

I really like this idea. 250 conversions to race with 125's (enough talk put 'em together and let the games begin!) and 450's to F3.

Must be something in that two stroker smoke making them people a bit stir crazy, maybe an additive in the oil that makes the smoke addictive, and the people highly defensive of their habits!

[motorbyclist]

what's wrong with the NC30 or NC35?

it's about time the japs started making some inline and/or V 4 250 and 400cc bikes again

even looking at the new road bike market, for a sportbike fan you are only offered a jump straight from a 250cc inline or V twin to a 600cc inline 4


but until then, this looks like a pretty nice idea - just the single thumper seems a bit silly on the road where 4 cylinders would be better suited

though i would definitely like to see a cr500 conversion...

[quallman1234]

Must be something in that two stroker smoke making them people a bit stir crazy, maybe an additive in the oil that makes the smoke addictive, and the people highly defensive of their habits!

You obviously haven't ridden a highly peaky little 2 stroker. The lessons you learn on these little peaky fuckers can't be represented by any other 4 stroke.

Why is there still a 125GP class in motogp? - because its a bloody good step up.

p.s Choppa im 18(almost) glen's 18, Patrick's just turned 19. - We all race, but 10k isn't realstic unless your keen to get a massif loan (if its even approved!).

[Badjelly]

There days are numbered because the world giants (yanks etc) with thier big 20million litre chevy V8 gas guzzlers are saying that a minority automotive group (two strokes) are the sole reason for the hole in the ozone (proove to me that it even exists!)
The extent of the ignorance revealed in that paragraph is breathtaking!

[R6_kid]

You obviously haven't ridden a highly peaky little 2 stroker. The lessons you learn on these little peaky fuckers can't be represented by any other 4 stroke.

Why is there still a 125GP class in motogp? - because its a bloody good step up.

p.s Choppa im 18(almost) glen's 18, Patrick's just turned 19. - We all race, but 10k isn't realstic unless your keen to get a massif loan (if its even approved!).

I've actually ridden an RG150, a TZR250 and a RS250 with a tuned exhaust. I also learnt to ride on a ZXR250, which although not as peaky as a two stroke, still meant that to be 'on the pace' with the bigger bikes you needed to work the gears and keep it in the right rev range... sure the 2t's have far less engine braking.

There is still a 125GP class because it's always been there, and sure its a good step up, just that no-one has offered a distinct replacement for the class until now. I think you'll find that if they were tuning a 250 4t single cylinder engine it would be almost as peaky as some two strokes, just with a shit load more engine braking. Also, I see you aren't racing on a brand spankers 125GP bike... is that affordable for you at the moment?

Racing is expensive, if it was cheap then all the bucket racers and SS guys would be out on 'real' bikes and filling up the grids.

[R6_kid]

There days are numbered because the world giants (yanks etc) with thier big 20million litre chevy V8 gas guzzlers are saying that a minority automotive group (two strokes) are the sole reason for the hole in the ozone (proove to me that it even exists!)

Actually it's due to the European Emmissions testing which keeps getting stricter and stricter. Most european manufacturers that produce awesome 125 2t road bikes are looking for alternatives, or are severely detuning their bikes to pass the new emmissions test.

As for the ozone hole... go to a country where they dont have an 'ozone hole' over them and see how much longer it takes you to get sunburnt... there is your proof. And besides, emmissions contribute to global warming, not so much the depletion of the ozone layer.

[Badjelly]

And besides, emissions contribute to global warming, not so much the depletion of the ozone layer.

You're closer than Sketchy_Racer, but the concern about 2-stroke emissions relates more to urban air pollution. Because 2-stroke engines burn oil as well as petrol (and I think also because they don't burn the petrol completely) they emit more carbon monoxide, hydrocarbons, and particulate matter than 4-strokes. I don't know exactly how much more, but various fragments I've seen on the WWW suggest much, much more, eg this (which admittedly is more concerned about hydrocarbons in the water from hydrocarbons than in the air)

http://www.kimointernational.org/Default.aspx?tabid=68

But I admit there are holes in my knowledge about this, so I have a challenge: I've seen many posts on KB dismissing the environmental problems caused by 2-stroke engines, but not one that suggested the poster actually knew the first thing about it. If anyone wants to go off and do a bit of reading and come back and argue that the emissions regulations applied to 2-stroke motorbikes are excessive or unreasonable, then please do and we can discuss it.

I've started a new thread for the responses:

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?p=1468644

[CHOPPA]

With MX i was a hardcore 2 stroke fan and to be honest i love riding them the only reason i went to 4 stroke was that they were easy to ride fast. I like the idea of this class because it seems like a way of the future sadly as 2 strokes seem to be getting fazed out also that you will be on newer bikes and give people of my size more of a chance in the class. 1 thing is though, is that 450 motocross engines require good maintenance with there titanium valves etc specially with the high revs involved in road racing, if a 450 or 250 4st engine lets go your in for some serious coin!

[limbimtimwim]

Racing is expensive, if it was cheap then all the bucket racers and SS guys would be out on 'real' bikes and filling up the grids.That's not right. Riding a bucket is a lot of fun. I've had as much fun at the bucket track as I did on a proper race track riding a 'real' bike. More so in a way because the laughter doesn't stop.

I think there would be many people out there racing in street stock and buckets out of choice, not out of lack of resources.

[quallman1234]

Fully snythetic 2 stroke oil. Doesn't burn any hydrocarbons (or whatever) , don't quote me tho, read it some where.

[madkeenandy]

At the current state of rules in new zealand this class is not practical

you have to spend almost double to get setup compared to 125s

with honda leading the way in ditching two strokes, they are not going to be along for much longer

so sure i can see a future class in which we race four stroke engines

however now is not that time. the right time is when we (competitiors) can aqurire/build our own machines cheaper than 7-8k and when the big four jap manufactors actually build an (4t) engine designed for high revs. i suspect that a highly strung and highly revved 4t would not last and would cost heaps to fix when it went bang.

as for this whole ozone stuff.... what a load of crap. sure a two stroke engine is going to eat up the ole layer a bit more than a 4t, but the only people that ride the damn things are 125 guys. the tiny amount of these guys means that we shouldn't use them as a scapegoat but rather look at our own everyday driving habits in our cars. we (car drivers) are doing far more damage than 20 guys on gp bikes

[diesel pig]

Racing is expensive, if it was cheap then all the bucket racers and SS guys would be out on 'real' bikes and filling up the grids.

:Oi:R6_kid pull your head in, Bucket racing is a end until it's self. Well over half of all bucket racers have owned or do own other types of race bikes. Being cheap is just a bonus that helps make Buckets the fantastic class it is.
So careful who you call cheap.

[FruitLooPs]

Forgive my ignorance, but whats wrong with 650 protwins as a step up. It's quite new yeah, does that explain the low numbers?

Sounds like a good class, I know some of the top SS riders down south shifted over to them just fine.

[Badjelly]

as for this whole ozone stuff.... what a load of crap.

You're right there! it's got nothing to do with the bloody ozone layer! But it's off-topic here. You might want to chime in on this thread:

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=69190

[CookMySock]

Fully snythetic 2 stroke oil. Doesn't burn any hydrocarbons (or whatever) , don't quote me tho, read it some where.Yes, this is correct. Amsoil 100:1 is absolutely brilliant.

DB

[R6_kid]

:Oi:R6_kid pull your head in, Bucket racing is a end until it's self. Well over half of all bucket racers have owned or do own other types of race bikes. Being cheap is just a bonus that helps make Buckets the fantastic class it is.
So careful who you call cheap.

although i didnt say in my post, i know that nearly all of you are in it for the fun and engenuity involved in the bucket racing... i've been to watch and it looks like damn good fun, and also good racing experience. Didnt mean to offend it as by calling it 'cheap' - it is much more affordable compared to running a 600cc Sports Production bike though.

[avgas]

There is still a 125GP class because it's always been there
Um cant use that excuse anymore as that was why there was a 500 class.
The reason why the 250's and 125's still exist is because there is a sales market still there. 125's are all the likes that china/malaysia etc can have - so seeing a 125 race rep bike there like have a 888 SP in NZ.
Same with the 250 class where having a 'Prilla, RS Honda or RGV is the ultimate learners bikes.
If you look at Japan/China/Malaysia....anywhere but here.... they also have the 400, 450, 750, big scooter (400+), 125 motard, mini thumper (350-500) classes as they sell so much in that area that it deserves its own classes.
You have to realise that in NZ we are rather sheltered. We try and jam all the racers into F2/F3.....

[Ivan]

Um cant use that excuse anymore as that was why there was a 500 class.
The reason why the 250's and 125's still exist is because there is a sales market still there. 125's are all the likes that china/malaysia etc can have - so seeing a 125 race rep bike there like have a 888 SP in NZ.
Same with the 250 class where having a 'Prilla, RS Honda or RGV is the ultimate learners bikes.
If you look at Japan/China/Malaysia....anywhere but here.... they also have the 400, 450, 750, big scooter (400+), 125 motard, mini thumper (350-500) classes as they sell so much in that area that it deserves its own classes.
You have to realise that in NZ we are rather sheltered. We try and jam all the racers into F2/F3.....


Mate the Honda RS125 and 250 are no road bike.

They are purpose built GP bikes the chassis Geometry etc is diseigned for high speed cornering there is no power whatsover until high in the revs and 500ks is a new piston You cant even compare one of these to a RGV 250 or Aprilla RS125 road they are NOTHING in comparision

[idleidolidyll]

there are some bloody excellent 4 stroke single race bikes available already and you shouldn't need to modify them to kick arse.................except that Motorcycling NZ has lost the plot and banned them through the back door because a bunch of whiny soft koks can't beat them on their boring over priced old 4 cylinder hacks.

Yamahas MT03 for example is perfect for me. I have several fused vertebrae and I can't lean onto clip on bars any longerr to race sport bikes. The MT03 and KTM Duke etc would make great race bikes in the single 4 stroke section of F3 but MNZ has effectively banned these bikes by introducing a 900mm handlebar height limitation so that 10-20 year old japanese 4 cylinder time bombs with $10-15,000 motors can continue winning.
Something like a vee twin sit up bike would also be great, a 600 or 750 Ducati Multistrada would suit me fine..........but the stupid MNZ rules forbid them because the bars are too high. The KTM Duke has just 140mm of suspension travel so it's definitely a road bike and not a trail bike. Yet it is effectively banned from racing because of whiny cry babies. The Multistrada is also a road bike and nothing else but it is banned by whiners with the same small minded rules.

The 'Formula' classes in NZ are a bloody joke. The original idea of these classes was to have a wide range of different types of bikes racing against each other.

The production classes were where the sponsors got their rocks off with limited numbers of manufacturers able to win races (read 3 or 4 jappa manufacturers, several who are major sponsors and who are frequently sucked up to).

Hey MNZ, I don't really like jappas, have you forgotten why BEARs started and why it nearly wiped jappa racing off the map for a number of years?

If you're gonna write these stupid laws, why don't you just specify brand names and be fucking done with it?

You might notice I'm pissed. Yes, I was thinking of making a return to racing after a decade away. Cruising through the regulations over the last week though, I see petty mindedness still prevails and sucking up to the sponsors rules the roost.

Where is my racing class if not a formula race where the VERY IDEA is to mix it up a lot????

[CHOPPA]

there are some bloody excellent 4 stroke single race bikes available already and you shouldn't need to modify them to kick arse.................except that Motorcycling NZ has lost the plot and banned them through the back door because a bunch of whiny soft koks can't beat them on their boring over priced old 4 cylinder hacks.

Yamahas MT03 for example is perfect for me. I have several fused vertebrae and I can't lean onto clip on bars any longerr to race sport bikes. The MT03 and KTM Duke etc would make great race bikes in the single 4 stroke section of F3 but MNZ has effectively banned these bikes by introducing a 900mm handlebar height limitation so that 10-20 year old japanese 4 cylinder time bombs with $10-15,000 motors can continue winning.
Something like a vee twin sit up bike would also be great, a 600 or 750 Ducati Multistrada would suit me fine..........but the stupid MNZ rules forbid them because the bars are too high. The KTM Duke has just 140mm of suspension travel so it's definitely a road bike and not a trail bike. Yet it is effectively banned from racing because of whiny cry babies. The Multistrada is also a road bike and nothing else but it is banned by whiners with the same small minded rules.

The 'Formula' classes in NZ are a bloody joke. The original idea of these classes was to have a wide range of different types of bikes racing against each other.

The production classes were where the sponsors got their rocks off with limited numbers of manufacturers able to win races (read 3 or 4 jappa manufacturers, several who are major sponsors and who are frequently sucked up to).

Hey MNZ, I don't really like jappas, have you forgotten why BEARs started and why it nearly wiped jappa racing off the map for a number of years?

If you're gonna write these stupid laws, why don't you just specify brand names and be fucking done with it?

You might notice I'm pissed. Yes, I was thinking of making a return to racing after a decade away. Cruising through the regulations over the last week though, I see petty mindedness still prevails and sucking up to the sponsors rules the roost.

Where is my racing class if not a formula race where the VERY IDEA is to mix it up a lot????


oh ok im starting to see your point! I still dont like the idea of racing road bikes against bikes like the superduke etc as the diff styles is dangerous, im not whining cause i cant ride motards but rather i choose to ride road style. It does suck that the superduke etc dont seem to have a class cause they are a cool bike... Maybe they should mix them with the motards i think that would be the safest option, maybe a split start though

[slowpoke]

My whole reason for liking these bikes (looking at the original post) is that there are literally tens of thousands of the things stashed in sheds around the country. Sure a pucca GP bike is a better tool but the numbers aren't exactly overwhelming in NZ.
Even if only a small percentage of people are interested in converting them for circuit racing then that would still mean substantial numbers.
I've seen some of the GP125's struggling to sell on Trade Me and I reckon the onsale of a CRF450 or similar with the options of selling in dirt mode, road race mode or just the conversion kit alone would be much easier.

[Moss 16]

My whole reason for liking these bikes (looking at the original post) is that there are literally tens of thousands of the things stashed in sheds around the country. Sure a pucca GP bike is a better tool but the numbers aren't exactly overwhelming in NZ.
Even if only a small percentage of people are interested in converting them for circuit racing then that would still mean substantial numbers.
I've seen some of the GP125's struggling to sell on Trade Me and I reckon the onsale of a CRF450 or similar with the options of selling in dirt mode, road race mode or just the conversion kit alone would be much easier.

What are you on about? I can think of at least 5 off the top of my head that have been sold since the last round of the nationals at puke.
The bikes that you are referring to on trade me are extremely over priced
($2250 for a pre 95 is just ridiculous; a grand is about the usual price)

And as for numbers not being overwhelming, there was a total of 23 competitors over the 2008 national series, which is the same as the super bike class so why aren’t you worried about the lack of numbers in that class too?

[Tim 39]

What are you on about? I can think of at least 5 off the top of my head that have been sold since the last round of the nationals at puke.
The bikes that you are referring to on trade me are extremely over priced
($2250 for a pre 95 is just ridiculous; a grand is about the usual price)

And as for numbers not being overwhelming, there was a total of 23 competitors over the 2008 national series, which is the same as the super bike class so why aren’t you worried about the lack of numbers in that class too?

calm down Colin!
good points though, this year it was mentioned that the 125 class provided the best racing of all the classes, and there have been many 125GP bikes purchased recently

[Moss 16]

calm down Colin!
good points though, this year it was mentioned that the 125 class provided the best racing of all the classes, and there have been many 125GP bikes purchased recently

Yea I did get a little worked up didnt I, but I dont quite understand why people want to fix the 125 class when there is nothing wrong with it, yes honda has pulled out and left a hole in the market but ktm and aprilia are still making bikes that are for sale to the general public to buy.
The class we should be looking to fix is the old 250gp class, there still isnt a replacement for it and has left abit of a canyon between 125gp and 600's.

[svr]

1. Some guy was racing a `converted' CRF450 mxer with road front end and farings / motard rims etc. at Taupo in F3 on Sunday. In practice I noticed that it was pretty much the same as the trusty SV in a straight line, but I didnt see him in the races.
Funny but it looked `big' and long sitting on the grid (twice the size of a 125)?
Anyway, seems at least one guy in NZ has taken the plunge.
2. Moriwaki is building Honda CRF 250 single road racers and flogging them for 15K Aus - 125 gp ers hate these things right?
3. Any reason why you cant just put lower bars on the KTM 690 / Aprilia 450 etc(cool bikes) and go in F3?
4. When 250gp goes to 500 four stroke twins (or similar) the factories will no doubt produce road bike race replicas - something to look forward to:cool: and should breathe some life into F3 or create a new racing class.

[idleidolidyll]

1. Some guy was racing a `converted' CRF450 mxer with road front end and farings / motard rims etc. at Taupo in F3 on Sunday. In practice I noticed that it was pretty much the same as the trusty SV in a straight line, but I didnt see him in the races.
Funny but it looked `big' and long sitting on the grid (twice the size of a 125)?
Anyway, seems at least one guy in NZ has taken the plunge.
2. Moriwaki is building Honda CRF 250 single road racers and flogging them for 15K Aus - 125 gp ers hate these things right?
3. Any reason why you cant just put lower bars on the KTM 690 / Aprilia 450 etc(cool bikes) and go in F3?
4. When 250gp goes to 500 four stroke twins (or similar) the factories will no doubt produce road bike race replicas - something to look forward to:cool: and should breathe some life into F3 or create a new racing class.

You miss the point:
Why should anyone have to put lower bars on a 690 Duke to race in F3? It's a road bike and the reasons given for the rule all add up to jealousy, ignorance and petty mindedness.
Although the Duke only has 140mm suspension, it has an 860mm seat height and a high top triple clamp wth the bar clamp on top of that. To put low bars on, you'd have to use clip on which would ruin the bike.
As an older rider with fused vertebrae, why am I forced to ride in a position that is uncomfortable and possibly unsafe?

[svr]

Do you reject the idea that there are safety issues with high / wide handlebars racing closely with `normal' race bikes?

[idleidolidyll]

Do you reject the idea that there are safety issues with high / wide handlebars racing closely with `normal' race bikes?

totally

a 'normal' race bike a few years back might have been a CB1100R with tall wide bars

the only qualifications should be that they fit into the cc ratings and have the normal safety equipment

by definition, if a bike with tall wide bars is the winner; it is the best race bike

[idleidolidyll]

Do you reject the idea that there are safety issues with high / wide handlebars racing closely with `normal' race bikes?

show me statistical evidence that this is a fact and not just emotive bullshit

[svr]

Of course there isnt any - At the last PMC round on Sunday the riders were told not to slipstream (!) as the Puke fatalities had `proven' that slipstreaming was dangerous...! Right or in this case wrong, anecdotal `evidence', gut feel, experience, knee-jerks etc. will continue to set the safety agenda given an absence of proper research.
Back to high / wide bars - CB1100 bars were at the same level as GS1100s etc, motard bars are at the heads of `normal' (= conventional) bikes of today. Bike racing is inherently dangerous true, but hordes of sideways motards taking random lines after fast starts and holding up faster bikes by being so wide, feet out all over the place etc. really wasnt helping. The whole idea of `classes' is similar bikes to keep the focus on riding right?

In terms of keeping out motards because they're too fast - Any `Euro-motards' capable of the 12s at Manfield, 2s at Puke? etc, that some `Pussy' F3 riders can do on their inferior bikes?

Also, lower bars would help handling surely? - less lift at speed. Maybe you could get a special - needs disability exemption from MNZ to let you keep the high bars?

[idleidolidyll]

Of course there isnt any - At the last PMC round on Sunday the riders were told not to slipstream (!) as the Puke fatalities had `proven' that slipstreaming was dangerous...! Right or in this case wrong, anecdotal `evidence', gut feel, experience, knee-jerks etc. will continue to set the safety agenda given an absence of proper research.

I hadn't heard that one but yet another piece of emotive claptrap if true. We may as well declare ourselves 'Switzerland' right now and ban racing.

Back to high / wide bars - CB1100 bars were at the same level as GS1100s etc, motard bars are at the heads of `normal' (= conventional) bikes of today. Bike racing is inherently dangerous true, but hordes of sideways motards taking random lines after fast starts and holding up faster bikes by being so wide, feet out all over the place etc. really wasnt helping. The whole idea of `classes' is similar bikes to keep the focus on riding right?

No, the idea of classes was to put bikes of similar power in the same classes. The move to ban bikes with wide bars, offroad frames, high bars etc was made because a bunch of whiners were pissed that the class was 'being taken over' by cheap fast bikes that often pissed all over the poxy 10-20 year old 4's that predominated.

A CB1100R was not a lean over bike like the R1, Gixxer or Ducati 1098, it would have had bars at head height going around a corer compared to those modern bikes, many of which are NOT necessarily the best bikes for some of our race tracks.

In terms of keeping out motards because they're too fast - Any `Euro-motards' capable of the 12s at Manfield, 2s at Puke? etc, that some `Pussy' F3 riders can do on their inferior bikes?

2's at Puke on F3? Is that what Glen Williams, class winner, does on his 70/75HP Suzuki? 12's at Manfield?
Someone seems to have a very fast stop watch indeed!

Glen, can you confirm this? Until he does I'd have to calculate as follows:

A standard SV650 weighs 165kg 'dry'. That's about 190kg ready to race and even with a fat loss program, it'd be fair to say that 180 ready to race would be probably as good as it gets. Most 400 4's are little better.
The SV starts with 69 Japanese HP. That's probably 50 at the wheel. Spend bulk dollars on the motor or lots of time and you might get 65-70 real HP at the back wheel.

As a comparison, CBR600's 15 years ago made more power than that, were about the same weight and could only manage 1.07 or so around Puke.

Of course the surface might be better now and from what I've seen, the best F3's at Puke get around in 1.06 or 1.07; possibly a few get faster laps on occasion.

However, given that the new KTM RC4 in development with the same motor as a 690 Duke can lap most circuits within 2 seconds of a 600cc sport bike and get almost 240kph, I see what you're worried about.

Of course you do cherry pick. Motards are better on the likes of Taupo, the road circuits etc with more corners than straights and if these make up the bulk of the series; the motards would have a better than average chance.

Also, lower bars would help handling surely? - less lift at speed. Maybe you could get a special - needs disability exemption from MNZ to let you keep the high bars?

No, not necessarily. Wide bars help pull a bike down quicker and help recover from near disaster when the front tucks. Lift at speed only matters at Puke and frankly I've never seen anyone leave the ground ever.

Hang on, I feel a massive yawn coming.....................y a w n

[idleidolidyll]

So it seems we will continue to pass race rules based on emotion and paranoia instead of facts and research......................no wonder racing is such a fuck up now

[idleidolidyll]

1.02 around Puke on an F3 bike?

here's the official timing stats recorded in December and I see that the VERY BEST TIME was under 1.05.11 in F3 in an early race. The later lap times were closer to 1.10+

If you're gonna tell porkies, at least make them believable please.

http://homepages.slingshot.co.nz/~marktime/rfiles/071209/RACE01.HTM

[idleidolidyll]

I note that the fastest F2 racers only just managed 1.02 at Puke let alone F3 bikes and even only a few of them managed to do it.

[Ivan]

Do you know what would be cool,

Some company to come into 125 GP racing and make a out of it bike that out handles out powers and looks the Aprillia GP125 bike.

Now that would be mint

But in my opinion dont change the class theres nothing wrong with 125 GP.

Its given me valuable knowledge in gearing and jetting andnowas of late suspension set up.

Its a realgood classbecause at 15 yearsold learning suspension and gearing and being able to give a good feedback to someone about how the bike responds you learn alot more than say a 4 stroke were you power in button off tip in power out.

And this season I am gonna be sad to give up 125 Racing but...
We all have to move on.

GO 125 and Itl be one of the races I will still go and watch and I wish any 125 rider well this season.
And I think the titles gonna come back North were it belongs

[k14]

I note that the fastest F2 racers only just managed 1.02 at Puke let alone F3 bikes and even only a few of them managed to do it.
Keep digging mate.

Have a look at these results:
http://www.mylaps.com/results/newResults.jsp?id=740737

and these
http://www.mylaps.com/results/newResults.jsp?id=733272

Pay to do some better research next time and not some old club day. Also, the 600's do 58's round puke. I was doing 1.05's on my 125.

[k14]

Some company to come into 125 GP racing and make a out of it bike that out handles out powers and looks the Aprillia GP125 bike.
What are you smoking ivan? The Aprilia RSB125 (what Bradley Smith and Talmasci) are on this year is the best 125 out there. If you can make one that is faster and handles better you better give the KTM factory a ring, they might give you a job.

If you've got a spare $100k or so you can buy last years bike 2nd hand from a team in europe.

[idleidolidyll]

Keep digging mate.

Have a look at these results:
http://www.mylaps.com/results/newResults.jsp?id=740737

and these
http://www.mylaps.com/results/newResults.jsp?id=733272

Pay to do some better research next time and not some old club day. Also, the 600's do 58's round puke. I was doing 1.05's on my 125.

I looked at your links: not a 1.02 in sight in F3 even for the best of the best let alone the boring rest.

it seems bullshit is the order of the day

BTW: the club day is irrelevant if it was attended b y the best riders

[idleidolidyll]

I was doing 1.05's on my 125.

until you show me some impartial proof of that i'll just keep on laughing at how fast your watch is

[k14]

Anyway, back on topic. The first round of the Auzzie champs have been run and there was one Moriwaki 250 4 stroke running in the 125 class.

Looks very promising, getting to within 4 seconds of the leading 125 rider Blake Leigh-Smith. Who I would assume would be on his fully spec'd Honda that he rode last year trying to qualify for the 125GP race at Philip Island. Very promising for the first outing, will be good to see the progress as the season goes on.

[k14]

until you show me some impartial proof of that i'll just keep on laughing at how fast your watch is

http://www.mylaps.com/results/newResults.jsp?id=739702

Any more questions?
BTW, the 125 lap record is a low 1.04 although you'll just have to take my word on that one. Don't think I have any proof. Was done by Midge Smart in 03 or 04.

[idleidolidyll]

http://www.mylaps.com/results/newResults.jsp?id=739702

Any more questions?
BTW, the 125 lap record is a low 1.04 although you'll just have to take my word on that one. Don't think I have any proof. Was done by Midge Smart in 03 or 04.

Yep, where's the 1.05 I asked for proof of?

I'm still laughing

[k14]

BTW: the club day is irrelevant if it was attended b y the best riders
It is irrelevant, only 1 of the top 5 F3 riders was riding that day. There are so many other points although I somehow doubt its worth me listening because you will just come up with some other inane point that is totally unrelated.

Yeah I will give you that the 1.02s for F3 haven't been done yet but its far from the 1.05's which you say are the best.

[k14]

Yep, where's the 1.05 I asked for proof of?

I'm still laughing

Pull your glasses out, bike number 114. About 4 or 5 riders dipped into the 1.05's during the weekend.

[Burrt Badger]

Idle. Open your mind. The laptimes provided on mylaps are transponder generated. No Fiction, No reaction time, just the plane truth. Terry Fitzgerald now holds the F3 lap record at Pukekohe with a time of 1.03. Prod s/bikes are doing 56's and 600's are doing 58's.
These times were recorded with the AMB transponder timing system run by Tim & Joan Gibbs. The same system used by NZV8's and many other top race series in this country.
I said at the start of this string that you should haul your head out of the dark place you have inserted it and get up to speed with the current Motorcycle race scene. You claim to have been a pretty good rider, but, you are only as good as your last effort, and currently you seem to be way out of touch with the real world.

[idleidolidyll]

It is irrelevant, only 1 of the top 5 F3 riders was riding that day. There are so many other points although I somehow doubt its worth me listening because you will just come up with some other inane point that is totally unrelated.

Yeah I will give you that the 1.02s for F3 haven't been done yet but its far from the 1.05's which you say are the best.

splitting hairs makes me laugh too, i said 1.05's were the best on the link I posted.

bullshit is bullshit and so far that's all I've seen from you losers

the claim was 1.02 for F3 and 1.05 for yourself: so far you've given me nothing in proof of either

hang on, I feel another belly laugh coming on..................

[k14]

Yes ok Idle, you win. We're all wrong and you're right. You should be president.

[idleidolidyll]

Idle. Open your mind. The laptimes provided on mylaps are transponder generated. No Fiction, No reaction time, just the plane truth. Terry Fitzgerald now holds the F3 lap record at Pukekohe with a time of 1.03. Prod s/bikes are doing 56's and 600's are doing 58's.

and? the claim was 1.02 for F3 at Puke not 1.03

These times were recorded with the AMB transponder timing system run by Tim & Joan Gibbs. The same system used by NZV8's and many other top race series in this country.
I said at the start of this string that you should haul your head out of the dark place you have inserted it and get up to speed with the current Motorcycle race scene. You claim to have been a pretty good rider, but, you are only as good as your last effort, and currently you seem to be way out of touch with the real world.

if the 'real world is a bunch of whiners who kick out valid bikes because the bars are too high based on emotion and bullshit; i don't want to get 'up to speed' you pussies can keep it

however, the points I've made are not negated by lap times. Banning high bars is bullshit and detrimental to the sport. It's based on jealousy and emotion not on empirical evidence of danger.

The new KTM single IS said to be lapping within 2 seconds of the top 600's and that would equate to a faster time than the current F3 class. Yes, that's with a fairing and clip ons but given that it's the same engine/chassis, a Duke on a shorter track with more corners would be likely to be similarly quick.

Frankly, I wish you F3 riders and MNZ would pull your heads out of the dark smelly holes they seem to be firmly inserted in and see what damage you've done and continue to do to racing in NZ.

The comment passed on another thread that this was the best season ever remains totally laughable.

[idleidolidyll]

Yes ok Idle, you win. We're all wrong and you're right. You should be president.

who's all?

you stated 1.02 and 1.05 then offer slower times as proof

yep i'm still laughing

president? who the fuck cares

[k14]

who's all?

you stated 1.02 and 1.05 then offer slower times as proof

yep i'm still laughing

president? who the fuck cares
No, I never stated 1.02. Now you're just making things up to get an argument going. Obviously you're not getting any :eek: you're a grumpy and pedantic old bastard.

[Ivan]

What are you smoking ivan? The Aprilia RSB125 (what Bradley Smith and Talmasci) are on this year is the best 125 out there. If you can make one that is faster and handles better you better give the KTM factory a ring, they might give you a job.

If you've got a spare $100k or so you can buy last years bike 2nd hand from a team in europe.

I didnt mean that.

I ment a factory should come make something better than the Aprillia thatd be awsome to see I mean keep the class alive with more Mans coming in and making new bikes

[Ivan]

Anyway, back on topic. The first round of the Auzzie champs have been run and there was one Moriwaki 250 4 stroke running in the 125 class.

Looks very promising, getting to within 4 seconds of the leading 125 rider Blake Leigh-Smith. Who I would assume would be on his fully spec'd Honda that he rode last year trying to qualify for the 125GP race at Philip Island. Very promising for the first outing, will be good to see the progress as the season goes on.

Nah Blake rides a Aussie Spec bike still trick.
What he Qualified on for the Aus GP was a Europeon spec bike.
But this season he is not racing in Europe again

I know thisDirect through him.

That RS he rode in Europe wernt even a Honda it was a Hand built engine based around a Honda Motor in a RS Chassis with Modified engine mounts that sat the motor further forward to keep the bike more stable in high speed corners pretty technical stuff.

But I think this season Jackos racing in Europe
And Blake is doing some 600 racing on a R6

[k14]

I didnt mean that.

I ment a factory should come make something better than the Aprillia thatd be awsome to see I mean keep the class alive with more Mans coming in and making new bikes
What, like KTM are doing now? You can own one for about $30k brand new straight out of the factory.

[idleidolidyll]

No, I never stated 1.02. Now you're just making things up to get an argument going. Obviously you're not getting any :eek: you're a grumpy and pedantic old bastard.

No, you may not have but someone did and that's when the whole lap time red herring started.

the fact that the handlebar ban is a fuck up that punishes the fastest growing group to road racing also remains

the thread asks where the affordable 4 stroke single GP bikes are.

use your brain, if the singles 4 strokes are banned by emotive bullshit that's part of the answer

I reckon 125's should be booted out of all F3 races: they take such different lines and are therefore dangerous......................smae kind of argument

[Ivan]

No, you may not have but someone did and that's when the whole lap time red herring started.

the fact that the handlebar ban is a fuck up that punishes the fastest growing group to road racing also remains

the thread asks where the affordable 4 stroke single GP bikes are.

use your brain, if the singles 4 strokes are banned by emotive bullshit that's part of the answer

I reckon 125's should be booted out of all F3 races: they take such different lines and are therefore dangerous......................smae kind of argument

Mate at Vic Club125's are banned from F3,
I dotn know why This dumb discussion needs to be brought into every thread this is all about a suitable GPclass and how turning a MotX bike into a road racer is awsome not about some fucken shit about some Handle Bar Heightsin GP Racing they use Clip ons, This is GP racing Thread, So I dotn think your gonna see your high handle bars in here aye there is a dirt bike section that youl get a better response from.

[Ivan]

What, like KTM are doing now? You can own one for about $30k brand new straight out of the factory.

Yeah I mean like itd be good if Yamaha and Honda kept in it and kept competing and itd be good with the likes of Suzuki Kawasaki etc

[Sketchy_Racer]

Idleidloidyll,

First of all, Motards have thier own class, they can piss off to that.
If you bike isn't a motard or isnt a road bike, maybe it's an adventure bike, why are you trying to race a adventure bike? You might be able to fit it into bears some where, that's great, but if it doesn't, your stupid fault for buying a bike to race that has no class.

Motards WONT be faster around the likes of taupo than a road bike that's had the same amount of suspension development as the opponent motard.

I have a 125, i wanna race it in F3, but they wont let me.. aww it must be because they know i'll whip thier arses around tracks like taupo if they do.

Yeah, Right

It's got nothing to do with which bike is faster, it's to do with sticking to your own, F3 is for F3 bikes, yeah those ancient 4cyl 4T that cost to much. If you don't like them, then don't buy one, but don't fucking bitch about the fact that you can't come steal grid positions in their class. Get a bike that suits YOU and that suits the Class the bike is elegible in.

And quit going on about your back damnit. So your old and broken, maybe racing isn't for you, Or maybe, buy a bike that you can ride, and ride it in the class your allowed to and shut the fuck up about the fact you can't come into the formula classes on it!

[k14]

Idleidloidyll,

First of all, Motards have thier own class, they can piss off to that.
If you bike isn't a motard or isnt a road bike, maybe it's an adventure bike, why are you trying to race a adventure bike? You might be able to fit it into bears some where, that's great, but if it doesn't, your stupid fault for buying a bike to race that has no class.

Motards WONT be faster around the likes of taupo than a road bike that's had the same amount of suspension development as the opponent motard.

I have a 125, i wanna race it in F3, but they wont let me.. aww it must be because they know i'll whip thier arses around tracks like taupo if they do.

Yeah, Right

It's got nothing to do with which bike is faster, it's to do with sticking to your own, F3 is for F3 bikes, yeah those ancient 4cyl 4T that cost to much. If you don't like them, then don't buy one, but don't fucking bitch about the fact that you can't come steal grid positions in their class. Get a bike that suits YOU and that suits the Class the bike is elegible in.

And quit going on about your back damnit. So your old and broken, maybe racing isn't for you, Or maybe, buy a bike that you can ride, and ride it in the class your allowed to and shut the fuck up about the fact you can't come into the formula classes on it!
Amen to that!

[svr]

who's all?

you stated 1.02 and 1.05 then offer slower times as proof

yep i'm still laughing

president? who the fuck cares


It was me: check it:
http://www.mylaps.com/results/newResults.jsp?id=740740

Was announced as 1:02.8 at the track
Do that on ya chookie!

[Dodgy]

Yay, go sketchy racer!

Idle idiot (or whatever he is called) is obviously some resentful, spiteful old shit in dire need of a BJ.

I cant understand people who understand the rules and then rant on why they arent allowed to race their bike in said class. Motards do have their own class as do 125GP and 600SP etc. I used to love racing the 125 in F3 and carving up the tractors, but it was great for us to get our own class too. What retard would buy a bike to race in a particular class knowing full well it isnt eligible?

[Ivan]

Yay, go sketchy racer!

Idle idiot (or whatever he is called) is obviously some resentful, spiteful old shit in dire need of a BJ.

I cant understand people who understand the rules and then rant on why they arent allowed to race their bike in said class. Motards do have their own class as do 125GP and 600SP etc. I used to love racing the 125 in F3 and carving up the tractors, but it was great for us to get our own class too. What retard would buy a bike to race in a particular class knowing full well it isnt eligible?


Yeah Go Sketchy That was a crack up,

[Dodgy]

Oh, and Sketchy - PM me if you want a hand to fix your Honda grenade. I reckon I know the cause and this time it ain't Ivan! :clap:

[svr]

some things are so bad you have to kill them many times over! good work team.

[Ivan]

Oh, and Sketchy - PM me if you want a hand to fix your Honda grenade. I reckon I know the cause and this time it ain't Ivan! :clap:

Waaaaa
Waaaaaaa
Waaaaaaaaa?

I never touched Sketchy's bike,
He touched myne tho well my brothers and did this to it

[Dodgy]

I couldnt believe that boys skills on the bike. When it was my pride and joy, I used to spend an evening removing the engine and forks, he managed to do it in a few seconds!

[Ivan]

Yeah for sure hewasquick he used our 98 Engine and Chassis with his Forks Shock and Rims I think and went a second a lap faster on it than his own bike which is really quite funny considering he had no time to test the bike to see if the settings were gonna all work up to him

[codgyoleracer]

I looked at your links: not a 1.02 in sight in F3 even for the best of the best let alone the boring rest.

it seems bullshit is the order of the day

BTW: the club day is irrelevant if it was attended b y the best riders

Terry did a 1.02.8 I think at Pukey (lap record) , I blew my bike on the friday & had to borrow one. I think Stevie woods & myself got into the 1.03s for qualifyinging though.

At the Auckland " world" champs last weekend the best time I got (on my on board timer) was a 1.03.8 , - so Terry doing high 1.02s is very likely i would say on a hot SV.

1.12s for sure at manfield with the new surface. I had my dress on at Manfield nats & only did 13's.

Cheers
Glen