Dangerous driving: Genuine query

[_Gina_]

Does anyone know the answer to the following questions?

I have been charged with -
Dangerous driving & unnecessary display of speed/racing on a public highway.

No speed has been noted or estimated on my traffic offence notice.

Q's)
Is this normal and if not; does this help in trying to put together special circumstances?
What are the guidelines for special circumstances surrounding these types of charges and how can I find them.


G

[Mikkel]

First of all - what did the cop claim he saw you do?

What do you think he could possibly have seen that would cause him to file that charge?

If he didn't measure your speed I think you have a pretty good chance of disputing it - provided that there's not a lot of aggravated witnesses to take the stand against you.

What does "unnecessary display of speed/racing on a public highway" entail anyway? You ride a modern sportsbike, surely using it is necessary! ;)

[Mully]

What does "unnecessary display of speed/racing on a public highway" entail anyway?

I asked someone about this. Apparently, if the cop is being a prick (unlike the fine occifers on here, naturally), and having a bad day he can choose to do you for unnecessary speed for doing the "traffic light GP" up to the speed limit if he feels you didn't need to accelarate that quickly.

[Quasievil]

Does anyone know the answer to the following questions?

I have been charged with -
Dangerous driving & unnecessary display of speed/racing on a public highway.

No speed has been noted or estimated on my traffic offence notice.

Q's)
Is this normal and if not; does this help in trying to put together special circumstances?
What are the guidelines for special circumstances surrounding these types of charges and how can I find them.


G

But you ride a Honda? so by default you are unable to display speed or racing. maybe that could be the basis for your case ?

:dodge:

[Mikkel]

I asked someone about this. Apparently, if the cop is being a prick (unlike the fine occifers on here, naturally), and having a bad day he can choose to do you for unnecessary speed for doing the "traffic light GP" up to the speed limit if he feels you didn't need to accelarate that quickly.

Yes, but if you take it to court he still has to prove a good reason for considering it dangerous...

And since speed is the only factor in lethal accidents it's hard to argue that anything was very dangerous if the speed limits were observed. (this is of course a remark that is dripping with sarcasm - if anyone should be in doubt!)

[Badjelly]

And since speed is the only factor in lethal accidents it's hard to argue that anything was very dangerous if the speed limits were observed. (this is of course a remark that is dripping with sarcasm - if anyone should be in doubt!)

There goes the thread!

[FROSTY]

i'd be talking to a REAL legal beagal type GG.
I think you may be able to request the information this/these charge is based on.
Your defence can then be structured around disproveing that

[90s]

You might want to move this to biker politics & law as there are some pretty switched on people in that forum where this type of thing is usually posted who may not catch it here.
Otherwise I don't think anything geniunely constructive can be posted until we have some outline of the circumstances. Please post.

[crazybigal]

its called discovery. they have to show you the notes he made if you ask for them. it will come down to your word against his and how the judge feels about bikes!

[Fatjim]

What ever you do, don;t let them know your defending it till the last possible moment. That way the cop will remember less.

Also remember that it is in fact difficult to accelerate on a sportsbike any where near as slowly as in most cars. I would suggest you ask the officer to quantify things such as you acceleration, at what revs you changed gear and how much throttle you applied.

Remember the average judge is a plonker, and doesn't know shit about bikes. Get your lawyer to educate them by doing comparisons of performance metrics.

Eg, a CBR1000 will do 0-100k in ~2.9sec, whereas a police car will do this in around 8 seconds.

A CBR wieghs with you on it around 260Ks and has about 160BHP. A police car before donuts and burgers weighs around 1800Kg's and has around 240BHP. Explain how hard it is actually get a bike to accelerate as slowly as a car.

If you give the judge enough evidence that bikes accelerate faster than cars without even trying, and the copper does not catorgoracally say you couldn't be acceelerating any faster then you don't have a case to answer.


But I'm sure Scumdog will come up with some generalisation that proves me wrong.

[90s]

So it would be legal for me to accelerate Bluebird down the road (to the speed limit) simply because it can't accelerate slowly, or that I am unable to control it?
Not sure how a defence based on my incompetence would fly.

Acceleration faster than cars to an open rd is one thing. In front of a school away from a controlled kiddie crossing would be another. I still think we still need to know the circumstances.

And it is called 'discovery' in some US states - seems that Boston Legal is filling in our NZ legal knowledge. Denny Krane!

[Sofa]

You know that it may not have actually been a police officer that saw you?
I got an offence like this in my car, and when I queried it at the police station they just told me that a random/annonymous member of the public had reported me.
Check if this hasn't happened to you because if it has then the fact that the police didn't take it up with you before charging you is illegal. And if this is the case then you have a right to not even go to court and just take it up with the police, because apparently its a breach of human rights or something...
Sucks hard out though!! Hope you sort it out.

[_Gina_]

More detail chicky??
Will Pm ya later M, I have pretty much had the answer confirmed by the below posts and I am trying not to get into too much detail in the thread as it would only enable debates and such like which normally don't go that well on KB.

G

[_Gina_]

Question one has been answered, leaving only question two...

What are the guidelines for special circumstances surrounding these types of charges and how can I find them.

[scracha]

What the fuck is unnecessary display of speed? :Oi: For cripes sakes...it's unnecessary for me to redline my $hite old car through the gears to 100 but it still pretty slow and is fun. Hell, it's probably unnecessary for us to drive at 100kmph instead of 80.....they gonna charge us all.

Who the fuck is actually running this country? The more I hear of $hit like this the more tempting Canada looks. I say we march on these arseholes in the beehive and remind them who actually won the WW2.

Grr etc etc:baby:

[Devil]

What the fuck is unnecessary display of speed? :Oi:
Something that turned up to stop dem boy racermers

[bucket boy]

Something that turned up to stop dem boy racermers

And it still hasnt stopped them and it never will

[bert_is_evil]

You know that it may not have actually been a police officer that saw you?
I got an offence like this in my car, and when I queried it at the police station they just told me that a random/annonymous member of the public had reported me.
Check if this hasn't happened to you because if it has then the fact that the police didn't take it up with you before charging you is illegal. And if this is the case then you have a right to not even go to court and just take it up with the police, because apparently its a breach of human rights or something...
Sucks hard out though!! Hope you sort it out.

wtf? I thought they could only send you a letter saying naughty naughty!

[twotyred]

wtf? I thought they could only send you a letter saying naughty naughty!

the aim is to turn every brainwashed "good citizen" into a defacto Brown-shirt...

[discotex]

Does anyone know the answer to the following questions?

I have been charged with -
Dangerous driving & unnecessary display of speed/racing on a public highway.

No speed has been noted or estimated on my traffic offence notice.

Q's)
Is this normal and if not; does this help in trying to put together special circumstances?
What are the guidelines for special circumstances surrounding these types of charges and how can I find them.


G

Arse. Fingers crossed this doesn't mean you lost your ride for 28 days as they can impound when using that section of the act.

Here's the law on it but it doesn't define what unnessisary means.

Boyracer amendment covering drags etc (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1998/0110/latest/DLM434542.html#DLM434542)

Law covering impoundment (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1998/0110/latest/DLM435033.html#DLM435033)

Grounds for appeal agaisnt impounding (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1998/0110/latest/DLM435070.html#DLM435070)

I'd imagine that you'll want a good lawyer that can examine the previous cases to guage what reasonable acceleration has been benchmarked at.

At a guess some things that won't go down with the judge well (regardless of whether you broke the speed limit):

1. Wheelies
2. Tyre squeal
3. Smoke from the rear

Anything like that will work against you. If you were only accelerating faster than a car would you should be able to get off both charges as the law doesn't define how much acceleration is excessive.

[Grub]

When I was given a traffic offence notice for "Dangerous speed", there was no speed noted. It isnt a requirement, but he will have it noted somewhere,.......

You can request "Full Disclosure" in response to the Infringement Letter or "Discovery" before a court hearing.

Under those, Police are required to give you a copy of everything that they will use in support of the charge. There's no such thing (like on TV) of them using a surprise witness/document/statement ... just isn't admissable.

[sinned]

I am trying not to get into too much detail in the thread as it would only enable debates and such like which normally don't go that well on KB.

G

I agree with your approach - debates here seldom help but there are some on KB who can offer good advice and a PM is a good means of gaining useful information. Then there is professional help - you have to pay for that but in this case it seems essential. I am interested in how it all works out.

[fireliv]

Like Grub said, first off call the police and ask for your disclosure pakage to be sent to you. You may also want to organises a lawyer or fill out a legal aid form if you dont ahve the means to pay for one yourself. Once disclsoure is obtained you will know what they are aledging and can put a plea in then but basicly the officer is sauing you did "something" that is likely to endanger members of the publics life knowingly.

By special circimstances I assume you mean that you are trying to get reasons not to be disqualified. For this things like work purposes where you would lose your job if you couldnt drive. Something along those lines.

Anways good luck.

[Renegade]

you will get disclosure at your 1st appearance, you plead not guilty so it goes to a status hearing giving you time to reveiw the disclosure and decide whether or not to plead not guilty at the status hearing taking it to a defended hearing.

bear in mind that some courts like wellington take traffic matters straight to a defended from your fisrt appearance.

Also i beleive the charge is unnescessary "exhibition" of speed, and is different from participating in an illegal street race.

if the charge is unnescessary "exhibition" of speed, i know from experience that the case can fall over if it is proved that there was NO exhibition on your behalf.

[Goblin]

Like Grub said, first off call the police and ask for your disclosure pakage to be sent to you. You may also want to organises a lawyer or fill out a legal aid form if you dont ahve the means to pay for one yourself. Once disclsoure is obtained you will know what they are aledging and can put a plea in then but basicly the officer is sauing you did "something" that is likely to endanger members of the publics life knowingly.
Anways good luck.Agree, write and ask for full disclosure but dont expect it to arrive before your first appearance. Apply for legal aid with the reason being it will cause your family extreme hardship if you lose your licence. If legal aid is denied then fight it yourself. It's a long drawn out process so all the very best to you G. Hope ya win!!!

[_Gina_]

Arse. Fingers crossed this doesn't mean you lost your ride for 28 days as they can impound when using that section of the act.
The bike has been impounded for 28 days, however I pick it up next Friday.
Court date is set for 5 weeks from now.

Thanks heaps for the links and info.

I can only really expand and say that I didn't make the best judgement call and my display was in front of an undercover car with two Officers riding in it.


G

[duckonin]

:msn-wink:Go to jail forget the legal begals do your time, just remember with a smile what your speeding cost you and learn from it, I'm not saying don't speed just learn from the experiance, the law will win..:Police:

[discotex]

Thanks heaps for the links and info.

I can only really expand and say that I didn't make the best judgement call and my display was in front of an undercover car with two Officers riding in it.


:Oops:

The thing that pisses me off is that you're getting charged for what is probably a relatively minor act yet people who cause accidents frequently get lesser charges. E.g. the guy who failed to indicate and pulled out in front of me (wrote my bike off) didn't even get careless driving...

A good lawyer can help represent that to the court and if you're willing to eat humble pie you might get off with a stern talking to. Unfortunately good lawyers cost $$$$.

If you want someone to come along for moral support (that's about all I'm good for) let me know.

[Ixion]

The bike has been impounded for 28 days, however I pick it up next Friday.
Court date is set for 5 weeks from now.

Thanks heaps for the links and info.

I can only really expand and say that I didn't make the best judgement call and my display was in front of an undercover car with two Officers riding in it.


G

Hm. An undercover car. If you mean a HP mufti, you're toast. But if it was a plain clothes car (eg defectives and such) then it won't have radar. Which means they'd be guessing at speed. And a good lawyer would probably pull them down. So maybe the exhibition thing is a backup. Cos that they don't have to prve the actual speed , just that it was excessive.

But as Mr Renegade noted, for that charge there has to actually be an "exhibition (and he'd know if anyone would).

So if it was a plains clothes jobby a good lawyer might be able to untoast y'.

NBest of luck whichever way.

[scumdog]

Stroll on the KB lawyers......

[discotex]

I asked one of flatties (pleeceman) about this and he said it is common for them to give an instant fine for failing to indicate or unsafe lane change rather than a traffic offence notice (court time) for careless driving. It is much easier, the defendant always pays cos they know they had a close shave and police man goes home early.

Yeah and to be honest I don't mind that approach in my case as the guy had learnt his lesson, had insurance and stopped at the scene to make sure I was ok and give his details.

I wasn't badly injured so given his insurance paid out ok there was little harm done really.

What I mind is the lack of balance shown in other areas. Would be interested to see the stats of drink driver impounding vs "boyracer act" impounding.

[Qkkid]

Stroll on the KB lawyers......

Cmon Scummy do ya stuff:confused:

[rainman]

wtf? I thought they could only send you a letter saying naughty naughty!

I agree. The other day I reported a dickhead who tried to kill me by using the online reporting thingy. (Well, he was using I car, of course, I was using the online reporting thingy). In my report I indicated my willingness to testify against said dickhead in the event that a case was to be brought against said dickhead, owing to my viewing people who try on vehicular manslaughter as part of their morning jollies in a very dim light indeed. A very friendly person then phoned me to say a) thanks for my report, and b) did I understand that it was not possible to prosecute in cases like this, and they'd just be sending the naughty naughty note...

Seems to argue against the dedicated member of the public theory.

But YMMV.

[BiK3RChiK]

I agree. The other day I reported a dickhead who tried to kill me by using the online reporting thingy. (Well, he was using I car, of course, I was using the online reporting thingy). In my report I indicated my willingness to testify against said dickhead in the event that a case was to be brought against said dickhead, owing to my viewing people who try on vehicular manslaughter as part of their morning jollies in a very dim light indeed. A very friendly person then phoned me to say a) thanks for my report, and b) did I understand that it was not possible to prosecute in cases like this, and they'd just be sending the naughty naughty note...

Seems to argue against the dedicated member of the public theory.

But YMMV.

It's all BS to make the public feel better... Not meant to be practical!! If it's life-threatening call 111 and insist on an officer being sent out and then something will get done about it if it's bad enough! This has worked for me. Calling *555 has NEVER worked for me...

M

[rainman]

Well, it would have been life threatening if I hadn't seen the f*cker coming out of the corner of my eye and got the hell out of the way, doubleplus quick. We were both doing 80-100, in flowing traffic, would have been particularly nasty to have an off at that point. I almost immediately pulled off onto my exit and he carried on straight, so wouldn't have been much point getting a patrol car out. Woulda taken an hour in Auckland traffic, anyway!

[homer]

I dont see how it means shit
if your not speeding and causing no problem
whos saying you cant accelerate at a piticular rate of knots
fuck id pull away from stoped at full gas till i hit 50 55 km what the fucks the cop going to do
Hed have a fuck of an argument if i got stoped for doing that
no law i know of that says you can get up to speed in a hurry

[Swoop]

Anything like that will work against you. If you were only accelerating faster than a car would you should be able to get off both charges as the law doesn't define how much acceleration is excessive.
Just plead the "SkidMark law" (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/wiki/index.php/Kiwibiker_Lexicon#S) of percentages of performance.
Much like the famous "skill percentage" rule for riding, a bike, under accelleration, is using only a percentage of it's potential so thereby accellerating faster than a cage but NOT accellerating anywhere near the bike's full potential.

Any judge should be easily <STRIKE>impressed</STRIKE> confused with this evidence.

[terbang]

The bike has been impounded for 28 days, however I pick it up next Friday.
Court date is set for 5 weeks from now.

Thanks heaps for the links and info.

I can only really expand and say that I didn't make the best judgement call and my display was in front of an undercover car with two Officers riding in it.


G

Oooh Gina, who's been a naughty girl then and having waay too much fun...? Hope it doesn't cost ya too much, learn from yer little slip and avoid being caught next time...:innocent:

[MaxB]

If you are a member of the AA you can get free legal advice up to a point. Some lawyers also give you an hour free to discuss the case before taking it on. That may a good place to start.

Your problem is that you have 2 witnesses against you and they are cops and will be believed. The only dangerous/no speed case anything like this I know of is when a Skyline turned left past our local school and floored it up to about 40km/h narrowly missing 2 kids crossing the road. This happened in front of a cop at the school for a talk and he nailed the offender and his car full of yoofs.

I have mentioned this guy in other posts but this was after his first ban. Naturaly this being 'Southside' he never showed up at court and carried on driving like nothing had happened. They banned him and threw in more charges for the court thing.

[Winston001]

Ok, forget about police radar etc - they don't need it and the charge of driving at a dangerous speed has been around for decades.

All that is required is for an experienced police officer to give evidence that he observed the defendant proceeding on X road in such and such conditions and was accelerating hard or progressing at Y speed which in the officers experienced opinion was dangerous in all of the circumstances.

So - 50kph outside a school at 8:45am might very well fall into such a charge - especially if it was midwinter (dull light) and raining.

Excessive acceleration is a bit more difficult and usually requires some smoke or wheelspin or loud noise or clearly shooting away from other vehicles on the same road.

The point is, the District Court is a busy place. If an experienced officer convinces a judge that the officer knows his onions - you are gone.

[swbarnett]

or clearly shooting away from other vehicles on the same road.
Sounds like me on the GN at almost every set of lights.

Who among us thinks a GN is known for it's acceleration?

[Edbear]

Oooh Gina, who's been a naughty girl then and having waay too much fun...? Hope it doesn't cost ya too much, learn from yer little slip and avoid being caught next time...:innocent:


Stroll on the KB lawyers......


The bike has been impounded for 28 days, however I pick it up next Friday.
Court date is set for 5 weeks from now.

Thanks heaps for the links and info.

I can only really expand and say that I didn't make the best judgement call and my display was in front of an undercover car with two Officers riding in it.
G

I think these three posts kinda sum it all up, really...:cool:

[breakaway]

no law i know of that says you can get up to speed in a hurry

Actually, there is. It's called "Unnecessary display of acceleration" or similar. There was a multi-page thread on it just a little while back.

Think twice before you launch from the next intersection.

[TimeOut]

Actually, there is. It's called "Unnecessary display of acceleration" or similar. There was a multi-page thread on it just a little while back.

Think twice before you launch from the next intersection.

Thanks will most certainly do this in the future.

[discotex]

Actually, there is. It's called "Unnecessary display of acceleration" or similar. There was a multi-page thread on it just a little while back.

Think twice before you launch from the next intersection.

Yes in fact I posted a link to the exact law earlier in this very thread.

[offrd]

Two officers viewed the "act", bike impounded under the new boy racer laws, court case pending.....

Not that i was there or anything but if you took off like a bullet from a gun barrel from lights or whatever or got the front wheel up...

Then you have no grounds to fight the case really do you....

It would then be do the crime, do the time like anyone else.... and learn from it.

If you took off in a noisy manner on a gutless bike and the cop thought you looked fast, you may have a case to fight....

If the cop thought you may not have been able to stop had someone walked out or a kid ran out in front of you then he has all the grounds to smoke your licence....

Sorry to put a down on things but...... Two cops against you....


Buy some good walking shoes....

[_Gina_]

Thanks for all the comments and helpful links.

I am not looking to "get off" the charge, was just wanting to get some information, which may or maynot help me with my day in court without spending money on a QC or such.

I did what I did and have admitted it and will take the punishment handed out.

G

[90s]

I agree. The other day I reported a dickhead who tried to kill me by using the online reporting thingy. (Well, he was using I car, of course, I was using the online reporting thingy). In my report I indicated my willingness to testify against said dickhead in the event that a case was to be brought against said dickhead, owing to my viewing people who try on vehicular manslaughter as part of their morning jollies in a very dim light indeed. A very friendly person then phoned me to say a) thanks for my report, and b) did I understand that it was not possible to prosecute in cases like this, and they'd just be sending the naughty naughty note...

Seems to argue against the dedicated member of the public theory.

But YMMV.

At least you got a reply. I reported someone only once, and used the online form. A woman (in a 4x4 but of course) along my morning commute was, swear to god, making some kind of breakfast on her lap and eating it, swerving along the Gt Nth Rd over the centre-line and randonmly back and forth, drawing flashes from other cars and nearly took me out twice by sideswiping me.
Giving her a look and stern (but not rude) gesture on the SH16 slip she then attmepted to push me off the road.
I had a reply saying that they could not proceed with processing because the number plate I entered did not exist. When I checked, I had simply put a space in the wrong place. I corrected it, and then was told it would be processed.
Never heard from them on this again.

[nodrog]

.......and will take the punishment handed out.

:spanking::spanking:

__________

[_Gina_]

:spanking::spanking:

__________
MMMMMM, y'know I love it when you hit me with your rhythm stick Gordie :devil2:

[rainman]

At least you got a reply. ...
Never heard from them on this again.

I don't think they usually respond, other than when necessary, they just send the letter out and that's that. I understand once a driver gets lots of these they may pay them a visit, but I'm not absolutely sure.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Does anyone know the answer to the following questions?

I have been charged with -
Dangerous driving & unnecessary display of speed/racing on a public highway.

No speed has been noted or estimated on my traffic offence notice.

Q's)
Is this normal and if not; does this help in trying to put together special circumstances?
What are the guidelines for special circumstances surrounding these types of charges and how can I find them.


G


tsk tsk. obviously a menace to society, better off in prison. ;)

best advice I can give you is GET LAWYERED UP.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Yes in fact I posted a link to the exact law earlier in this very thread.


TAKE YOUR NUMBER PLATE OFF AND THROW IT AWAY, AND THEN RIDE HOW YOU LIKE.

[crazybigal]

dot flame people when you dont know what your talking about please!

discovery

A formal investigation -- governed by court rules -- that is conducted before trial. Discovery allows one party to question other parties, and sometimes witnesses. It also allows one party to force the others to produce requested documents or other physical evidence. The most common types of discovery are interrogatories, consisting of written questions the other party must answer under penalty of perjury, and depositions, which involve an in-person session at which one party to a lawsuit has the opportunity to ask oral questions of the other party or her witnesses under oath while a written transcript is made by a court reporter. Other types of pretrial discovery consist of written requests to produce documents and requests for admissions, by which one party asks the other to admit or deny key facts in the case. One major purpose of discovery is to assess the strength or weakness of an opponent's case, with the idea of opening settlement talks. Another is to gather information to use at trial. Discovery is also present in criminal cases, in which by law the prosecutor must turn over to the defense any witness statements and any evidence that might tend to exonerate the defendant. Depending on the rules of the court, the defendant may also be obliged to share evidence with the prosecutor.

See Topic: Go to Court or Mediate


Discovery is a TV channel where most people here get their legal advice. It is disclosure.

[Patrick]

Thanks for all the comments and helpful links.

I am not looking to "get off" the charge, was just wanting to get some information, which may or maynot help me with my day in court without spending money on a QC or such.

I did what I did and have admitted it and will take the punishment handed out.

G

Save yourself the $$$ then for ya bus fares and Lattes. Flag the lawyer.



Hey Crazy... Discovery is the American telly version. IN NZ it is called "disclosure."

[spudchucka]

Discovery is a TV channel where most people here get their legal advice. It is disclosure.

Disclosure is the correct term, however only documents that are "discoverable" are disclosed.

[Coldrider]

[QUOTE=Patrick;1470535]Save yourself the $$$ then for ya bus fares and Lattes. Flag the lawyer.

Advice as a fellow motorcyclist ?
That's why the police had to set up canteens at the police station.

[_Gina_]

I have no intention of using a lawyer.

I spoke to the Prosecutions team today and have popped in and submitted a written request for all information pertaining to my case.
I would gather that this will give me a clear indication of how the "incident" is perceived by the Police.

[Patrick]

[QUOTE=Patrick;1470535]Save yourself the $$$ then for ya bus fares and Lattes. Flag the lawyer.

Advice as a fellow motorcyclist ?
That's why the police had to set up canteens at the police station.

Nah... advice only as if ya know ya did it, get on with it...(her words to that effect, not mine BTW) throw $$$ at a lawyer if ya want, but unless there is a "defence" you don't need a lawyer to say, "fair cop guv, ya got me."

Canteens in cop shops? We have instant coffee and tea bags, sometimes Milo, and ya make it yourself... still good for washing them donuts down...

[Coldrider]

If it was me I would admit nothing, and get a lawyer to defend myself and minimise the impact of the consequences, wouldn't want to make it easy for the judge to make an example of me.
Some judges do not like people who try to defend themselves.
Even if the cost adds to the fine I would be happy that I did the best for myself in the circumstances, as I said, that if it was me.

Donuts?, Whisky & water when me ol man was a copper.

[Pixie]

:msn-wink:Go to jail forget the legal begals do your time, just remember with a smile what your speeding cost you and learn from it, I'm not saying don't speed just learn from the experiance, the law will win..:Police:

I agree with fukonin.Be a good sheep,plead guilty,stick your wooly bum in the air and be thankful for your punishment.
What ever you do,don't make the justice system justify their riddiculous charges.

[Patrick]

If it was me ...

Donuts?, Whisky & water when me ol man was a copper.

They like to see guilty pleas, not wasting the courts time... :msn-wink: Bwahahahahahahahahahaha......

Whiskey and water? Did I know your dad????????? Us old farts gotta move with the time... Whiskey and water washes donuts down pretty damn good too ya know...

[Coldrider]

They like to see guilty pleas, not wasting the courts time... :msn-wink: Bwahahahahahahahahahaha......

Whiskey and water? Did I know your dad????????? Us old farts gotta move with the time... Whiskey and water washes donuts down pretty damn good too ya know...

Legal system is set up to protect defendants against the excesses of the state, the judge/JP are fiercely independant.

You might have known me dad, he got a QPM before he retired (that narrows it down to a handful). Had a stuggle on my hands to get a denim jacket, let alone a motorcycle, as a teenager.

[Deviant Esq]

I have no intention of using a lawyer.

I spoke to the Prosecutions team today and have popped in and submitted a written request for all information pertaining to my case.
I would gather that this will give me a clear indication of how the "incident" is perceived by the Police.
If you've been a naughty girl, you've been a naughty girl, there are no two ways about it. But you know this, so I'll just say that when good girls are good, they're pretty good, but when they're bad they're better... :devil2: :shutup:

The only thing I'll say/suggest is that depending on what you've done, you may or may not have a case for pleading not guilty on the grounds that what you were doing was really 'careless driving' rather than 'dangerous driving' - careless driving as a charge carries a much lighter penalty, and you (in most cases) don't get your licence taken off you for 6 months - as will happen if you are convicted of dangerous. Keep us updated of your progress, and good luck. :)

[Grub]

What are the guidelines for special circumstances surrounding these types of charges and how can I find them.


Best idea is to look up the legislation at http://www.legislation.govt.nz/ There's good stuff in there.

[mitchilin]

If your going to North Shore,get a duty solicitor.Don't go in and plead guilty by yourself.Been there done that and got fucked over.15 month disqual and ovet $1200 fines for being clocked at 105 in a 50.If you are at N/S then there will be time to see a DS.Nicest court I've been to.

[rocketman1]

Riding at a "dangerous speed is purely subjective in my opinion, 100 kmh can be dangerous, so can 50kmh be dangerous, Dangerous by definition is doing a speed that can be dangerous to yourself and others, doing 150kmh on an isolated straight road, with no traffic (but for a parked patrol car) in my opinion is not dangerous, now doing 85 kmh in town with kids and cars and cyclists around you is dangerous, because you are then a danger to everyone.
Police, like most officials do tend go by the book / law and not judge things, by common sense. This lack of common sense is what tends to get up Joe Publics nose from time to time. I got caught doing 62 km/h in town 10pm on a Sunday night, no traffic about at all except for the one car?? parked on a side road, when i queried the sense in fining me, the officer said how would I like if people did this speed down my street. My reply was I would love it, most traffic on my street travels at least 75-80kmh and occasionaly 100-120kmh at least. I qualify my earlier statement, the older officers seem to have some common sense, the younger ones seem to have little.

[Patrick]

If your going to North Shore,get a duty solicitor.Don't go in and plead guilty by yourself.Been there done that and got fucked over.15 month disqual and ovet $1200 fines for being clocked at 105 in a 50.If you are at N/S then there will be time to see a DS.Nicest court I've been to.

....and still get a 15 month disqaully and $1200 in fines if ya did it yaself...

[_Gina_]

6 months loss of license, get it back 09/01/2009.

Used a duty solicitor and negotiated directly with the police prosecutor who agreed to drop the "...racing on a public highway..." and charge only for "dangerous".

Turns out I was lucky that I had sold the bike as they would have impounded it due to my having been charged with EBA within a 2 year timeframe.


Over and out 10/4 big buddies :D
Gina.

[avgas]

Say you have done it in the past, and you will do it again.
As long as labour is still in they will let you off lightly so you can vote again. Labour likes repeat offenders.....ooops i meant repeat voters

[discotex]

6 months loss of license, get it back 09/01/2009.


Thanks for the update. Do we get to hear the full story now you've been through the courts?

[skidMark]

Prepare to be walking for a minimum of 6 months. impound fees to relase your vehicle will be 400-500 ish...

**speaks from experiance**

21 months total disqualification for me. :( :buggerd:

[Blackshear]

Thanks for the update. Do we get to hear the full story now you've been through the courts?

+1. Just read the whole threat, no mention of anything other than unmarked undercover. Gosh.

[Toaster]

[QUOTE=Coldrider;1470896]

Nah... advice only as if ya know ya did it, get on with it...(her words to that effect, not mine BTW) throw $$$ at a lawyer if ya want, but unless there is a "defence" you don't need a lawyer to say, "fair cop guv, ya got me."

Canteens in cop shops? We have instant coffee and tea bags, sometimes Milo, and ya make it yourself... still good for washing them donuts down...

Agreed, there are some real rip off useless lawyers that make it sound like they are defending you but they just clip the ticket three times and then negotiate your guilty plea vs charges.

I recall the boss at one station being so damn tight that we had to use our own bloody milk for coffee and tea.... usually cause some bastard used it all on his breakfast.

[_Gina_]

I came on the motorway at Newmarket, heading north to Onewa Rd offramp, was a Friday evening, 6pm ish.
I had been visiting a friend and had had two beers over a two hour period.
Traffic flow was medium heavy, visibility good and weather fine.

I was splitting through the traffic and a (guy) on ZX9R was behind me splitting through too.
Basically I got caught up in a "I can ride better than you" scenario and I dropped the ball and lost my normally acute awareness of my surroundings.

I came up the bridge splitting through the left two lanes and the guy on the ZX9R was playing major catch up after I had left him behind back further at the edge of spaghetti junction, I spotted him going hard to catch up and thought - "don't think so mate" and it was then that I made my fatal mistake.
I took a line through the two lanes and traffic and got my knee down as I carved through past a mufti HP in the left lane and was spotted.

The mufti HP took instant action and slapped the lights n sirens on just as the ZX9R was in between the mufti HP and another car, shat himself and slammed the brakes on too hard, went up on the front wheel, just managed to hold it together in my opinion.
Meanwhile, I had already decided that I was pulling over rather than running and effectively that is why the ZX9R was able to adjust speed and carry on.

As the officer said to me later, he couldn't pursue two bikes, and I made the decision a no brainer for him by pulling over as such.

Hope that pretty much covers what those that wanted the details wanted.

G

[dpex]

You see, here, Dangerous, is an exact example of what I'm on about in my post entitled 'A New Threat'. One which you put down as irrelevant.

But here's a cop with a quota and a biker doing his thing. The cop uses some utterly obscure law to tag the biker.

Now apply the ability of screw-head cops to apply the new 'gang' laws...should they ever come into force.

BTW: My suggestion to the biker is, simply go along to court and plead not guilty and let the cop come up with the evidence.

Take a pad and pen. Write down everything the cop says, then refute the points, one by one. Use words like, "not true." "No I didn't." "What test did the officer apply?" "Where is this test in the law...ergo, please have the officer produce the relevant test law."

Use phrases like, 'Your Honour, the officer stated that he observed...blah, blah, blah. He did not refer to any lawful measurement for his observation, therefore his observation is simply subjective, not objective.'

[dpex]

Remember, every man has a right to his day in court. But also remember that the court, at the level you will be in, is a churn. They churn them in and out in five minutes. But you have the right to saty there all day if you wish.

Many years ago I was charged with; to wit: Shouting, 'You fucking wanker,' at a maritime cop but within earshot of Her Majesty, the Queen Of England.' Like she'd never heard such foul language.

Anyway. I went to court dressed in the three-piece suit and clutching an empty brief-case. I stood in the dock and started to explain the circumstances. After about fifteen minutes of me bringing in the most minute of details and expanding on them...the time of day and what that meant. The ambient light, and what that meant. That my family were aboard our boat, and what that meant, inclduing what Granny would have felt if th cop and his boat had hit us.....etc. I just went on and on with whatever I could dream up.

Finally the judge said, 'Mr Dpex, this is all 'very' interesting but may we ask you get to the nub of the matter.'

'Yes. Yarona'. And off I went again with masses of toally irrelevant crap. The judge let me go on for a further ten minutes, stopped me and said, 'Yes....Thank you Mr Dpex. I think the best course here, to foreshorten events in this very busy court, would be to convict and discharge you. How does that sit with you?'

I figured having a charge for saying 'fucking wanker' in front of her Majesty was something I could live with. So I agreed.

So there's the plan. Get into the dock and keep talking till the judge or JP (most likely the latter) get's pissed off. But remember, he can't stop you talking, he can only offer you a shut-up deal.

All it takesd is a bit of balls to keep talking, and talking, and talking. And reember, you have the right to talk all day if you wish. They don't have the facility to let you talk all day. So talk them into a deal. Like discharged without conviction. Make that offer when you're asked.

[Patrick]

So your day was totally wasted then...????

What did you think the penalty for swearing near the Queen was going to be????????

I'll give ya a clue...

Convicted and Discharged....

:third:

[spudchucka]

Man I just love the KB bush lawyer posts.:laugh:

[_Gina_]

Man I just love the KB bush lawyer posts.:laugh:
Well yeah, I do for the shits and gigles - when I am in the "mood".
But not in my thread fuckers!!!
:Pokey:

[Patrick]

Awwww.... come on Gina... Get with the programme...

The thread has been hijacked, just like so many before it... Its the way of KB, you know....:bleh:

[Bend-it]

Many years ago I was charged with; to wit: Shouting, 'You fucking wanker,' at a maritime cop but within earshot of Her Majesty, the Queen Of England.'


You da man!! :2thumbsup:

[Shadows]

And it is called 'discovery' in some US states - seems that Boston Legal is filling in our NZ legal knowledge. Denny Krane!

It is also called discovery here. Nothing to do with Merkin TV shows.

[Big Dave]

Ya gots to learn to look for/spot mufti cars.

The lights in the window corners, the wheels or the meathead driving's blue shirt in the disguised ones.

[Shadows]

I took a line through the two lanes and traffic and got my knee down as I carved through past a mufti HP in the left lane and was spotted.

I'd say that getting your knee down on a motorway would appear to anybody (particularly a judge) as an "unneccessary exhibition" in that generally this only happens on a race track.

Think about what any "normal" person's perception of this would be after watching 10 seconds MotoGP vs. their day to day experiences observing motorcycles riding on a public road.

You're fucked, I'm sorry for you.

[_Gina_]

You're fucked, I'm sorry for you.
Thanks for the heads up, I had been wondering for some time why I seemed different than the other motorcycle riders...
And there it is, I am fucked.
Depressing.

[Big Dave]

And there it is, I am fucked.


Got any pictures?

[spudchucka]

Well yeah, I do for the shits and gigles - when I am in the "mood".
But not in my thread fuckers!!!
:Pokey:

I was referring to the outstanding legal advice offered by Mr d pex.

[Patrick]

It is also called discovery here. Nothing to do with Merkin TV shows.

Not quite - irs called "Disclosure" here.....


Ya gots to learn to look for/spot mufti cars.

The lights in the window corners, the wheels or the meathead driving's blue shirt in the disguised ones.

Thems not lights - thems radar units.... Right hand corners of car window, front and rear.


And there it is, I am fucked.
Depressing.

Nah... its all good, innit???


Got any pictures?

Mounted????

[jrandom]

I had already decided that I was pulling over rather than running...

Well, there's your problem right there.

Never mind, lesson learned for the future, eh?

Heading onto the bridge in traffic... you must have mates in various places on the Shore, right? You could have been through the traffic up the motorway, off into the 'burbs and up someone's driveway in the twinkle of an eye. Would have required risky riding and a bit of careful management of the inevitable 180bpm heart rate, etc, but you can't beat the rush when you pull it off successfully.

And if you fail, at least you can say you tried.

:niceone:


Ya gots to learn to look for/spot mufti cars.

Not much point if you're (as Gina says she was) riding in a way that gives you three tenths of sweet fuck all chance of slowing down quickly enough to look innocent.

[_Gina_]

Got any pictures?
Here ya go, the Repsol is dead... :(

[terbang]

Fwark Gina, that your lid..?