A lesson on braking

[Mikkel]

So here's a lesson in braking learned the hard way:

If, under hard breaking, you feel the rear starting to lift and thus relaxes pressure on the front brake, make sure to reapply brake pressure in a progressive manner - DO NOT under any circumstance chuck your brakes back on at the same pressure they were before.

That is unless you fancy loosing the front end and doing a faceplant!

As you relax the pressure on the brake your weight distribution will start moving backwards - in the case the brake pressure is reapplied at the same level as before relaxing the pressure you run the risk of locking up the front wheel as the weight transfer forward has not been achieved yet.

DAMHIK!

Oh, and I can attest to the fact that Shoei and Alpinestars makes gear that will leave you with only minor bruises (except for your ego of course) if you do a face plant and slide at 70 km/h! NEO gloves I can not recommend, they held - just...

That was about what I got out of todays advanced training course at Levels held by Mainland driving school.

So, to summarise:

Good things:
A lesson learned
Not too badly bruised
The sun was shining, making it comfortable watching the other guys enjoying themselves at the track
Took the bike down there on a trailer
I now know that my riding gear works
Mainland were very good and said I could attend their next course at no extra fee
No mechnical damage it would appear

Bad things:
I'm going to be bloody sore for a few days
I need a new helmet
I need some new gloves
My leathers needs a bit of attention
The pretty ZXR250A isn't quite as pretty anymore

Challenges for next week:
Making the insurance company see that doing an advanced handling course on a track is not a bad idea
Making the insurance company see that doing an advanced handling course on a track is not a bad idea
Making the insurance company see that doing an advanced handling course on a track is not a bad idea

So there ya go. Please don't go out and try to confirm this hypothesis by conducting you own experiments...

[discotex]

Ouch. Is it really going to be worth trying to clam insurance?

Helmet is usually not covered by bike insurance - it's usually contents.

[skidMark]

So you need parts then?:msn-wink:

Gutted man, she was so pretty too :crybaby:

[mynameis]

Bummer !! Hope things are sorted out mate.

[homer]

damn shame man
i hope you get the bits sorted with the insurance .

Then theres next time
hope to get back there myself .

[mynameis]

Now that machine would be less than $3000 aye haha :lol:

[jrandom]

'A Lesson On Braking, or, Mikkel Gives Himself the Learn'

:laugh:

Ah, glad you're all right dude. And good to see you have the physics of your bin all worked out.

Harsh, but true; sometimes it's the best way to learn riding skills. I know I'm not likely to highside again from fucked-up throttle control after coming off the Snail that way and breaking my thumb.

You might not have binned on a more modern bike with better suspension, you know. How long do you have to wait until you get your full licence?

(Also, what tyres was the ZXR wearing?)

[owner]

Glad your ok.
challenges for next week : lie to the insurance company
; practice stoppies until you can roll them out

[gunnyrob]

Good to hear you're o.k. mikkel, makes me glad I have ABS & a BMW funny front end that can't dive.

Have used ABS twice in anger so far.

[No FX]

Good too hear you ok Mikkel and have thought about what happened and why, there's always things to learn and improve on it just sucks finding out the hard way!

[Mikkel]

Now that machine would be less than $3000 aye haha :lol:

Nah, about that mark right now I suppose... It's only cosmetics and I'll sort her out one way or the other.


So you need parts then?:msn-wink:

Gutted man, she was so pretty too :crybaby:

Not unlikely. I'll be in touch after I've talked to the insurance company...


Ah, glad you're all right dude. And good to see you have the physics of your bin all worked out.

Yeah, it was simple enough to figure out what went wrong. Didn't stop me from feeling like a dumbarse though.

I was just thinking: "FFS, just get the other guys going I don't wanna be holding up proceedings. Yes, that is my spleen I can pick it up myself thank you now get the show moving again!" ;)


You might not have binned on a more modern bike with better suspension, you know. How long do you have to wait until you get your full licence?

(Also, what tyres was the ZXR wearing?)

Well, I just bought another bike... Full will be about another 3 months at least.

And yeah I suppose the front tyre on the 250 might be getting a bit tired. Still, I don't think the stickiest slick from hell could have saved me this learning experience... Since it was a braking exercise I was of course focused on exactly that, braking... Forgot to think.


Glad your ok.
challenges for next week : lie to the insurance company
; practice stoppies until you can roll them out

Fuck no, lies are too complicated. The truth is easier to remember! That is one thing I have learned through much more painful lessons in the past than the lesson I learned today.


Anyway, here's a few pictures: First 4 is the damage to the bike, #5 is my shoulder and #6 my hip.

[Mikkel]

And the riding gear:

[No FX]

+1 to alpinstars then aye?

[No FX]

Don't tell your shoulder and hip i said that though!

[kevie]

Talking about braking lessons.... I was watching SCU on TV the other morning, they were examining a crash in Auckland between a motorcycle vs truck and the outcome was the motorcycle only used the rear brakes in the emergency stopping attempt which they said was only aprox 30% of his braking ability resulting in the impact with the truck and the motorcyclists death from the impact. It was a bit of a sit up and take notice for me as a motorcyclist..... as they came to the conclusion had he used front as well as rear brakes he could have had enough speed off to avert impact or at worse very much lessen the impact.

[YellowDog]

CONFUCIUS SAY:
“Learn from the mistakes of others. Not possible to live long enough to make them all yourself”

Regarding the insurance, do read you policy before talking to them. If I was to say I damaged the bike at a race track, my insurance would not pay. Yous may be the same.

Thank you for the lesson and good luck with getting back on the track again.

[Taz]

Good to hear you're o.k. mikkel, makes me glad I have ABS & a BMW funny front end that can't dive.

Have used ABS twice in anger so far.


I'm a huge fan of that funny front end on my BMW but mine doesn't have the ABS. The lack of dive under brakes and the fact that the suspension still works as it should with it's full travel even when braking hard is a huge bonus in my opinion.

[homer]

I'm a huge fan of that funny front end on my BMW but mine doesn't have the ABS. The lack of dive under brakes and the fact that the suspension still works as it should with it's full travel even when braking hard is a huge bonus in my opinion.

Strange you say that ,reminds me of when there was a lot of hype about anti dive fronts and i dont know what happened to it , I thought its was almost going to become a standard feature all most bikes.

[madbikeboy]

Mikkel!!

Well, fuck it, the laws of gravity mean you're going to hit the deck sooner or later - I'm stoked that you did it in a controlled environment and didn't get squished by some dumb cager...

keep practising regardless of this result, the time spent learning to brake are priceless - I've had a couple of close calls where I would have been toast, some bruising and some gear is a small price to pay.

pity there's not a binning donation box eh?!

:wari::wari::wari:

[Mikkel]

+1 to alpinstars then aye?

Don't tell your shoulder and hip i said that though!

My hip and shoulder (indeed entire body) shivers with the thought of not having had any armour... Today I'm stiff and sore - nothing too bad mind you. I hope it loosens up a little bit when I start moving around though.

So yes, I can't praise the gear enough.

The bike disappeared out left from under me and I just held on to the handlebars and did a face/shoulder plant and slid a little bit. Then I rolled onto my back and slid along there until I stopped. Quick reality check, all parts there, still breathing, no significant pain - FUCK! MY BIKE! (the rear wheel was still spinning...) Jumped up and got her up and off the tarmac.


aprox 30% of his braking ability

30% ??? I'd like to see the bike where you still have 30% of your braking capability on your rear tyre under heavy breaking! Yesterday we were told (although it's not hard to figure out) that on a sportsbike theres no reason at all to use the rear brake... If you do pull a small stoppie then the balancing effect of the angular momentum on the rotating rear wheel may be what saves your arse in a hairy situation.



Regarding the insurance, do read you policy before talking to them. If I was to say I damaged the bike at a race track, my insurance would not pay. Yous may be the same.

My insurance policy does indeed say it doesn't cover my bike on the track. I am still going to ask them whether their company policy is that they are against rider instruction in a safe environment.
I have a bunch of witnesses that can testify that the spill happened at less than 100 km/h during a braking exercise.
Yes, they can dismiss the claim if they want to - my mission is to make them want not to dismiss it.
If I should not succeed I will definately be looking for another company.


Well, fuck it, the laws of gravity mean you're going to hit the deck sooner or later - I'm stoked that you did it in a controlled environment and didn't get squished by some dumb cager...

Yeah, I've hit the deck before - this was the first time on a motorcycle though.
I've hit the deck face first at 70 km/h wearing less safety gear than yesterday... But then again I guess waterskiing is a different ballgame altogether! (The cartwheels where spectacular and I was still pretty battered)

[All]

Have you ridden since? I find that taking a fall tends to damage the confidence a bit. :)

[All]

Also, good point about the race track and the insurance; my policy is the same. I can't claim if anything happens when I'm on a track.

[onearmedbandit]

Bummer to read that Mikkel, but as others have said at least you were in the right enviroment. Do you have contents insurance? If so your gear including helmet will be covered under that. State were very obliging when I had my off, asking me if there was anything else I needed to add (they convinced me to add my gloves to the claim!) as it was only one excess, and they paid out within a week.

[Mikkel]

Have you ridden since? I find that taking a fall tends to damage the confidence a bit. :)

Well, I finished the braking execise we were doing when I did my spill.
When I came back into the pits I went into a mild state of shock. Everything seemed to be deja vu and all of the time it was as if there was a dream super-imposed ontop of it all. After I was comfortable that I hadn't suffered a mild concussion I still decided to sit out there rest of the day for one main reason: my helmet needed to be replaced.

I'm not apprehensive about getting back on the bike. I am not too disappointed I'll have to be without a bike for a few days as the stiffness and soreness seems to be settling in...


Bummer to read that Mikkel, but as others have said at least you were in the right enviroment. Do you have contents insurance? If so your gear including helmet will be covered under that. State were very obliging when I had my off, asking me if there was anything else I needed to add (they convinced me to add my gloves to the claim!) as it was only one excess, and they paid out within a week.

Cheers mate!
I'll have a chat with them tomorrow. I hope they'll consider covering the bike since it was a proper course with instructors and everything...
But yes, my contents should cover my riding gear and I think I'll aim to get my helmet, gloves and leathers replaced. We'll see how it goes.

[discotex]

I'm not apprehensive about getting back on the bike. I am not too disappointed I'll have to be without a bike for a few days as the stiffness and soreness seems to be settling in...


Don't be so sure until you're actually doing it. You'll probably find your body reacts even though you're fine mentally. Best to test your reactions to heavy braking before you need it or you might find you freeze up.

[Mikkel]

Don't be so sure until you're actually doing it. You'll probably find your body reacts even though you're fine mentally. Best to test your reactions to heavy braking before you need it or you might find you freeze up.

Indeed. I certainly intend to take a time off when I get my gear back and just go and do a lot of heavy braking...

And I'm specifically going to train the scenario where you start lifting your rear wheel - practice how to release pressure on the brake and reapply it progressively.

[discotex]

Indeed. I certainly intend to take a time off when I get my gear back and just go and do a lot of heavy braking...

And I'm specifically going to train the scenario where you start lifting your rear wheel - practice how to release pressure on the brake and reapply it progressively.

That should have any PTSD style reactions nailed in no time.

(but we better not call them stoppies eh) :niceone:

[SVboy]

Huge ups to Mikkel. We didnt see the crash,but saw the bike on the ground a millisecond later. He handled the situation really well, in all respects. He knew what happened, was concerned about others, but also put sensible parameters around his own safety. He made sure Paul and myself still had a brilliant day, despite his misfortune. It will be better next time mate! [And boy, am I going to focus on my braking skills, too!]

[James Deuce]

Oooo Bugger!

Harsh way to learn how to do stoppies!

Glad you;re all right though.

[jrandom]

My insurance policy does indeed say it doesn't cover my bike on the track. I am still going to ask them whether their company policy is that they are against rider instruction in a safe environment.

They probably won't pay out.

It's not a matter of whether they're against rider training, per se, it's simply the fact that they offered a policy with cover and premiums that didn't take into account any risks involved in rider training activities.

Something can be entirely laudable and safe, but if you don't actually contract with your insurer to cover incidents during that activity, an after-the-fact appeal to them for some money when something goes wrong during it doesn't make a lot of sense.

Anyway, you're now aware of the value of trackday insurance cover! Time to call Kiwibike (http://www.kiwibike.co.nz/) and see what they can do for you.

:niceone:

[Mikkel]

Thanks guys.
All things considered it was still a pleasant day at the trackside watching the other guys having a go at it. Sun was out and it was nice and warm! :)


They probably won't pay out.

It's not a matter of whether they're against rider training, per se, it's simply the fact that they offered a policy with cover and premiums that didn't take into account any risks involved in rider training activities.

Something can be entirely laudable and safe, but if you don't actually contract with your insurer to cover incidents during that activity, an after-the-fact appeal to them for some money when something goes wrong during it doesn't make a lot of sense.

Anyway, you're now aware of the value of trackday insurance cover! Time to call Kiwibike (http://www.kiwibike.co.nz/) and see what they can do for you.

:niceone:

I realise that, but I'm not too bothered. It's only cosmetics and aches - a small price to pay for a valuable lesson. I'll have a chat to the insurance company today and then I'll start considering my options.

You say Kiwibike, I've also heard Vero - and they'll actually subtract the cost of the training course ($195) from my premium if I show them my receipt and certificate. So let's see ;)

[SDU]

Glad you weren't too beaten up & will be ready to get back in the saddle in no time.

[tone_crafter]

Man I did worse damage to the fairings of my ZXR250A when I binned it at about 20km/h :( Main damage was on the top fairing. Put a huge crack above the indicator when it broke out (even though the indicator is only held in by rubber).

Let me know how much it costs to fix if you do as I still havn't got around to fixing mine.

[Mikkel]

Thanks SDU. :)
tone_crafter - you can see what I'm being quoted below.

State insurance ROCKS! :headbang:

They accepted to cover the bike for the training day! I have a $400 excess so will have to consider whether to claim or not. :niceone:

Furthermore I got a quote for my newish zx7rr and can get comprehensive cover for ~$240 per year! :D

Anyway, I've filed a claim on my riding gear and they should get back to me in a couple of days. My excess on contents is $150 so that will be money well spent seeing as they are most likely going to replace my leathers, helmet, gloves and some bits on the boots that got scratched a bit.

Had a chat to the Bumper repair guys on Hawdon street and handed over my front fairings and muffler. They'll do a quote for me, but they said to expect ~$700 to restore the fairings to immaculate condition... For comparison I can say that getting a *new* right front fairing is ~$800 - and that is IF they can actually get hold of one (not likely). So I'm likely not to use the insurance option since it'll make my premiums go up.

All in all I'm a very happy man right now :) And all of this activity running around town has kinda made me forget the stiffness and the soreness :niceone:

[discotex]

Furthermore I got a quote for my newish zx7rr and can get comprehensive cover for ~$240 per year! :D


That's a 1/3 of normal quotes (unless your ZX-7R is worth like $3000 or something). Might pay to double check.

[Mikkel]

That's a 1/3 of normal quotes (unless your ZX-7R is worth like $3000 or something). Might pay to double check.

Nah, that is an agree value of $6,000. I bought it at $5,700 and may well spend a number of dollars on it to make sure it's good to go!

[discotex]

Nah, that is an agree value of $6,000. I bought it at $5,700 and may well spend a number of dollars on it to make sure it's good to go!

Ahh yeah and being in Chch that should help. Probably a fair quote in that case. Worth a call to Kiwibike tho. They may well beat it.

[Mikkel]

Ahh yeah and being in Chch that should help. Probably a fair quote in that case. Worth a call to Kiwibike tho. They may well beat it.

I'll have a look at that...


Anyway, spent some time in the garage being creative. Seeing as it may take up to 3 weeks before my fairings have been repaired I've been working on an alternative way of mounting the front indicators. I'm tempted to thing that the kawasaki engineers actually took this situation into account while designing the bike. All the bits and pieces (except two screws and a pair a of rubber washers) were there to do a fairly robust and sensible mounting of the indicators in the absence of the fairings. So I guess I might be back on my bike from thursday onwards...

[YellowDog]

Thanks guys.
All things considered it was still a pleasant day at the trackside watching the other guys having a go at it. Sun was out and it was nice and warm! :)



I realise that, but I'm not too bothered. It's only cosmetics and aches - a small price to pay for a valuable lesson. I'll have a chat to the insurance company today and then I'll start considering my options.

You say Kiwibike, I've also heard Vero - and they'll actually subtract the cost of the training course ($195) from my premium if I show them my receipt and certificate. So let's see ;)
Your very situation is one that 'white lies' were designed to assit. You were not racing on a track. You were looking to improve your riding skills and hence reduce the risk for the insurance company.

BUT you have just gone and proved you were absolutely right to be honest and up front with them. Well done.

[Mikkel]

Your very situation is one that 'white lies' were designed to assit. You were not racing on a track. You were looking to improve your riding skills and hence reduce the risk for the insurance company.

White lies are still lies. I think you'd find a conviction for fraud would gather some interest from prospective employers and immigration services around the world. Oh, and getting insurance is harder when you have tried robbing them blind before - or so I've been told at least. ;)

But those are minor issues. Dunno about other people, but I just generally don't feel good about myself if I start going down that road...


BUT you have just gone and proved you were absolutely right to be honest and up front with them. Well done.

Indeed. I didn't expect them to cover me - but they did. Now I don't know if I'll claim on it... Karma works I think.

[EJK]

OUCH! That helmet pic is bad!

P.S. You'll still get a ZX-10R in the future right? ;)

[YellowDog]

Yes, I would agree with you. 20 years ago, in your situation, I would have presented a case that would mean I would be covered and not risk letting the insurance company get out of it. Now I am happier telling the truth and facing the potential consequenses.

I know a lot of people (inclusding myself) who will not make an insurance claim for anything other than close to a total loss. Once you make a claim, you get caned for the next 5 years with heavier premiums.

I therefore always go for the maximum excess ($1,350 on my car), which reduces the premium considerably.