GN250 clutch weirdness

[swbarnett]

Hi,

Coming up to a set of lights today at about 20-30kph I went in to first gear and was about to roll to a stop when the clutch suddenly and fully engaged. It was like the cable had snapped. I kept the thing upright while I nose-dived to about 5kph and then the bike just wanted to proceed at idle revs. By using the brakes I managed to stall and stop. Tried to start again with clutch lever pulled right in and the bike lurched forward on the starter motor. I managed to get going again in first gear and tried to limp home. Stalled again at the next set of lights, got it going again in the same manner. By about 2km down the road everything came right and I managed to get home.

Anybody got any ideas what might've happened?

I'm reluctant to ride it again until I at least know what went wrong. I'm not up to stripping the clutch so I'll take it in to get it looked at if that's necessary.

My nearest Suzuki dealer is Holeshot on Barry's Pt Rd. Any opinions on whether they're any good? Otherwise I'll take it to Colemans where I bought it new (well out of warranty - 18Mths and 21,000km old).

[swbarnett]

Last time I changed the oil I noticed that there are two drain plugs under the engine after undoing the wrong one in error. I undid the right one and let all the old oil drain out then replaced them both before changing the filter and refilling with oil. Is there anything I could've done wrong in replacing the bungs? Maybe this has something to do with the problem?

[Steam]

...It was like the cable had snapped. .... By about 2km down the road everything came right ...
It sounds like classic cable snappage to me, but you say it came right, and is now all good? I don't understand that at all.

What is your oil level now?

[swbarnett]

It sounds like classic cable snappage to me, but you say it came right, and is now all good? I don't understand that at all.

What is your oil level now?
Oil level is low - just on the L in the little window. I was going to change it yesterday but Motomail was out of stock on the filters.

[mark247]

Have you check both ends of the cable? it could possibly been stretched by loosing a few strands. I'd say it's something kinda simple. Strange how it fixed itself tho.

[swbarnett]

Have you check both ends of the cable? it could possibly been stretched by loosing a few strands. I'd say it's something kinda simple. Strange how it fixed itself tho.
Cable looks fine. I adjusted the free play so that there was less than none, i.e. pulling the clutch in further than normal, and with the bike on the centre stand the rear wheel rotates. It seems the problem has returned (or maybe it never went away).

[swbarnett]

Heard from Holeshot this morning. It seems that the clutch is slipping (not something I'd noticed) and will probably need to have some or all of the plates replaced.

After only 21000km. I'm not impressed.

[WasPhantom]

Heard from Holeshot this morning. It seems that the clutch is slipping (not something I'd noticed) and will probably need to have some or all of the plates replaced.

After only 21000km. I'm not impressed.

That makes sense.... ride the clutch less :whistle:

[Ragingrob]

Cable looks fine. I adjusted the free play so that there was less than none, i.e. pulling the clutch in further than normal, and with the bike on the centre stand the rear wheel rotates. It seems the problem has returned (or maybe it never went away).

The wheel is meant to rotate slowly even when clutch is in when in gear, but yeah does sound like the clutch is slipping that would explain how it was only temporary.

[swbarnett]

That makes sense.... ride the clutch less :whistle:
I know this was probably meant as a flippant comment but this does make me want to examine my clutch behaviour.

I do use engine braking quite a bit and have a tendency to go to a lower gear and slip the clutch until the speed is down to an appropriate level for the new gear.

Also, when changing up I'm quite quick - clutch in, gear up, clutch out in as quick and fluid a motion as possible.

I've been riding for about 12 years with 13 year gap until 18months ago but I'm not averse to weeding out bad habits that have developed in that time.

How do others work the clutch?

[swbarnett]

The wheel is meant to rotate slowly even when clutch is in when in gear, but yeah does sound like the clutch is slipping that would explain how it was only temporary.
Yes, I've seen this before. The wheel was rotating considerably faster.

[xwhatsit]

Well chuck on the rear brake and see if it still drags on the stand.

[Spuds1234]

Why would it be the clutch slipping?

On my 250, when the clutch slipped it would rev but I woudnt go any faster.

Same on my Kat. So why would the clutch be slipping here when it seems like it got stuck in the engaged position even when the lever was pulled in?

[breakaway]

How do others work the clutch?

On up shifting, same as you, but on downshifting I use engine braking + brakes, however cant say I slip the clutch to slow the bike down. That sounds like a good way to wear them out. Also do you put your bike into neutral when you come to stops at lights etc?


Why would it be the clutch slipping?

Wrong type of oil / friction plates worn-out.

[swbarnett]

Why would it be the clutch slipping?

On my 250, when the clutch slipped it would rev but I woudnt go any faster.

Same on my Kat. So why would the clutch be slipping here when it seems like it got stuck in the engaged position even when the lever was pulled in?
We'll see what they say when they get chance to open it up.

[swbarnett]

On up shifting, same as you, but on downshifting I use engine braking + brakes, however cant say I slip the clutch to slow the bike down. That sounds like a good way to wear them out.
I don't slip all the time, more when I'm trying to stop in a hurry and maximising the braking.

As a side note, I've had 5 other bikes and rode each of them for up to 50,000km in the same manner with no problems (all but one have been Hondas, maybe they're just built better). I also do the same in our Honda Accord and so far I've replaced the clutch twice, once at 150,000km and again at around 300,000.


Also do you put your bike into neutral when you come to stops at lights etc?
Generally not, want to be ready to move if some idiot fails to stop behind me.


Wrong type of oil / friction plates worn-out.
Been using the oil as stated on the filler cap (10W-40).

[swbarnett]

I heard back from Holeshot yesterday. It turns out that the fibre plates are badly worn and what I experienced was two worn plates sticking together.

Looks like I'll have to stop using engine braking on the GN unless absolutely necessary.

I think the price of replacement fibre plates says a lot - only $100.

[Badjelly]

I heard back from Holeshot yesterday. It turns out that the fibre plates are badly worn and what I experienced was two worn plates sticking together.

Looks like I'll have to stop using engine braking on the GN unless absolutely necessary.

I think the price of replacement fibre plates says a lot - only $100.

Thanks. I didn't know wear could lead to sticking like that. Useful info.

You can still use engine braking if you "blip" the throttle on downshifts to equalise the speeds of the two sides of the clutch before releasing the lever.

You think $100 for a plate is cheap? It's just a simple fibre disc isn't it? $100 for that doesn't sound cheap to me, except in comparison to all the other grossly overpriced spares. I was told an entire clutch assembly for my Mazda Familia would be $300-400. (But that was 3 years ago and I've been driving around with an worn-out clutch since then. The only problem is grabbiness, which requires more careful engagement.)

[mark247]

Thanks. I didn't know wear could lead to sticking like that. Useful info.

You can still use engine braking if you "blip" the throttle on downshifts to equalise the speeds of the two sides of the clutch before releasing the lever.

You think $100 for a plate is cheap? It's just a simple fibre disc isn't it? $100 for that doesn't sound cheap to me, except in comparison to all the other grossly overpriced spares. I was told an entire clutch assembly for my Mazda Familia would be $300-400. (But that was 3 years ago and I've been driving around with an worn-out clutch since then. The only problem is grabbiness, which requires more careful engagement.)

A car clutch is totally different to a wet clutch so the prices are not really comparable. $300 - $400 for an entire clutch assembly ( presure plate etc ) on a car is not too bad. On ebay a clutch plate set for a GN250 is around $80NZD plus shipping. So i guess $100 for a one plate is a rip...

[Spuds1234]

He probably paid $100 for 2 fibres and a steel or something plus labour to install the parts and diagnose the problem.

Sounds pretty reasonable to me.

[Badjelly]

He probably paid $100 for 2 fibres and a steel or something plus labour to install the parts and diagnose the problem. Sounds pretty reasonable to me.

Yes. As I understood it, swbarnett was suggesting was that the low price indicated that the parts were of low quality. And I was saying it ain't necessarily so. (Though I have no idea whether the GN250 clutch plates are of low quality.)

[Spuds1234]

Well fibres for my bike worked out at 24 each, and steels were 20 each so thats $64 in parts and $40 for 2 hours labour.

Seems about right to me for what he paid.

I dont think the parts he got would be inferior or of low quality.

[swbarnett]

On ebay a clutch plate set for a GN250 is around $80NZD plus shipping. So i guess $100 for a one plate is a rip...
That's $100 for a full set of fibre disks (not sure how many). Holeshot was expecting a lot more.

I've been quoted this plus $30 for gaskets and one hour's labour. Was less than I was expecting but then I don't exactly have my finger on the pulse of the parts market.

[mark247]

That's $100 for a full set of fibre disks (not sure how many). Holeshot was expecting a lot more.

I've been quoted this plus $30 for gaskets and one hour's labour. Was less than I was expecting but then I don't exactly have my finger on the pulse of the parts market.

That sounds like a fair deal if you ask me.

[swbarnett]

That sounds like a fair deal if you ask me.
That's what I thought.