Ducati might beat Cagiva to the punch

[Hillbilly]

:girlfight:

What's this? Supermono wars you say? That's right, Ducati are planning a counterattack against the Mito 500. It's in the form of the Ducati 549R Supermono pictured below. Details are sketchy, but it's rumoured to weigh in at just 120kg. This seems like a time warp back to the '90s with the Yamaha SZR660, the Bimota BB1 and the old Ducati Supermono race bike.

[riffer]

Hmm.

Like the front end, but I gotta admit I'm not convinced by the direction they're taking with the frame a la the Desmosedici and new Monster, abandoning the trellis at the back of the frame and replacing it with cast aluminium. Yes, I know its stronger, but there seems to be a dilution of the aethetics with going to what nearly everyone else has. And it's not as pretty as well. There's no flow from the back to the front and it's like two different bikes.

[NordieBoy]

:girlfight:

What's this? Supermono wars you say? That's right, Ducati are planning a counterattack against the Mito 500. It's in the form of the Ducati 549R Supermono pictured below. Details are sketchy, but it's rumoured to weigh in at just 120kg. This seems like a time warp back to the '90s with the Yamaha SZR660, the Bimota BB1 and the old Ducati Supermono race bike.

And the Bimota GB1 :D

[R6_kid]

hmm... doesnt look photoshopped either. Any indication of power output? Not that it will matter, at 120kg that thing will be crazy fun!

[FkNAmerican]

wow......I really like the look o' that!!!

Then again....a 549cc Ducati would be a waste in my eyes. I have a feeling it will cost as much as a Zx-10.

[deanohit]

Mean! Go the singles!

[McJim]

Sounds like my cup of tea. All handling and few ponies. In terms of budget though I might just hang onto my 583cc Twin.

[tri boy]

Is it just me, or does the shock spring look damn near coil bound:crazy:

[limbimtimwim]

wow......I really like the look o' that!!!
Then again....a 549cc Ducati would be a waste in my eyes. I have a feeling it will cost as much as a Zx-10.Same, I have the feeling they'll ruin it by making it 'exclusive'.

I hope that is a single disc on the front.

Now there are at least three of these rumoured single cylinder sports bikes 'just around the corner' but none have appeared yet. This, the Mito 500 and the KTM RC4 or whatever it is. And that ugly Subaru.

[enigma51]

In thoery it will be half a 1098 so that would make it half the power give or take a few ponies either way. It will definitly not be more than a 848 not even close i reckon.



Maybe a 80 or 90 hp which might make it fun to ride!

[jcupit69]

120kg!!!! thats 125 teritory, my rs250 weighs in around 140kgs!!! :eek:

That thing would be a riot in the twistys!!!!

When i first saw the plans for the mito 500 it looked awsome, untill i found out they were going for the hyo 650 engine in it!!! i've seen a couple of mito 125s wiv hyo 650 engines shoved in them in the uk, so wasnt overly impressed with cagivas efforts :oi-grr:

Any news on what kinda motor or power output its going to have??? Im guessin ducati will make their own motor???

love the exhaust on that pic :drool:

[limbimtimwim]

Any news on what kinda motor or power output its going to have??? Im guessin ducati will make their own motor???You'd think so. Complete with desmo valves. Still, if there is only one cylinder it shouldn't cost too much to get serviced.

.. Then again.. They'll probably ram it up in the fuel tank or something and getting it done will probably involve removing the forks and the swingarm or something dumb like that.

[xwhatsit]

You'd think so. Complete with desmo valves.

And that fascinating balancer system they put on the original Supermono? The ghost second cylinder?

[Hillbilly]

In thoery it will be half a 1098 so that would make it half the power give or take a few ponies either way. It will definitly not be more than a 848 not even close i reckon.
Maybe a 80 or 90 hp which might make it fun to ride!

One article was in Italian, the other in Dutch. The Italian article quoted the power output as 120CV!!! (pretty much 120HP)

[limbimtimwim]

And that fascinating balancer system they put on the original Supermono? The ghost second cylinder?Oh yeah. That was weird.

Hopefully they'll see sense and put in a balancer shaft like everyone else.

[NordieBoy]

Oh yeah. That was weird.

Hopefully they'll see sense and put in a balancer shaft like everyone else.

But they'd need to add a balancer whereas the 2nd cylinder balancer uses pretty much existing bits.
And worked really well.

[Arven]

Or they could just leave it Lumpy like a big MX bike! :)

[Pwalo]

One article was in Italian, the other in Dutch. The Italian article quoted the power output as 120CV!!! (pretty much 120HP)

Well I guess you'll be rebuilding that sucker every 20 hours running time or so then.

Nice for racing, but a waste of time for the street.

[xwhatsit]

Oh yeah. That was weird.

Hopefully they'll see sense and put in a balancer shaft like everyone else.

Why's that? As much as I like a real jack-hammer single, it probably needs a balancer of some sort to keep everybody happy, including the frame. Chain/gear-driven balancers are a crappy old-fashioned solution wot sap a lot of horses. From what people said about the ghost cylinder, it was much more efficient. The only problem is that it doesn't really look like a proper thumper, does it? I suppose you've got all that plastic shit covering it.

[Atomic]

At long last, I know what I am creating! I have been working on a project and now know that it is to be a Supermono!

x1 1998 RS250 with dead engine
x1 2007 RMZ450 thumper
Combine and create an Aprilia RS450 Supermono

It might see the road every now and then but will usually be used for track days.

[limbimtimwim]

Why's that? As much as I like a real jack-hammer single, it probably needs a balancer of some sort to keep everybody happy, including the frame. Chain/gear-driven balancers are a crappy old-fashioned solution wot sap a lot of horses. From what people said about the ghost cylinder, it was much more efficient. The only problem is that it doesn't really look like a proper thumper, does it? I suppose you've got all that plastic shit covering it.I imagine it weighs a bit more than doing a balancer shaft.

I had no idea it actually worked well. I assumed it was Ducati's usual resistance to redesigning their engines (Probably brought on by them not knowing if there would be money next month, so they are still penny pinchers) since they seem to hold on to designs for as long as they possibly can.

[jcupit69]

At long last, I know what I am creating! I have been working on a project and now know that it is to be a Supermono!

x1 1998 RS250 with dead engine
x1 2007 RMZ450 thumper
Combine and create an Aprilia RS450 Supermono

It might see the road every now and then but will usually be used for track days.

I think iv seen something like this around, you tube maybe??? Or somewhere like that theres a rs with a 450 engine in it.....i'll go have a look see if i can find a link........

[hospitalfood]

looks like the muffler stops short of the rear wheel.?

[enigma51]

One article was in Italian, the other in Dutch. The Italian article quoted the power output as 120CV!!! (pretty much 120HP)

Not a chance in hell it will produce 120 your top 600c 4 cyclinder just get there if you lucky

[Coyote]

Dream listed

[Hillbilly]

This is apparently what Ducati are really afraid of - it's the KTM RC4:

[ital916]

The question is will these two weigh in at what a 500cc bike should cost, or are consumers gonna have to pay for the italian tag with a huge markup. A feasible option if not, but if they are too expensive....600 supersports would look far more attractive price-wise. Not aesthetically though cos that ducati is sex on wheels.

[SixPackBack]

One article was in Italian, the other in Dutch. The Italian article quoted the power output as 120CV!!! (pretty much 120HP)


Even supercharged they would be pushing the envelope. Latest AMCN qoutes the KTM690 at 46KW [61HP], I'm picking the Ducati would be no more than 60HP in road trim. Given the weight this is unlikely to be the road rocket we could have hoped for.

[Atomic]

MX 450s are putting out between 50 and 60hp in stock trim but could be tuned to more. 250 smoker gp bikes put out over 100 horsies. I guess 120hp is acheivable with that size engine but reliability would be the issue.

[limbimtimwim]

This is apparently what Ducati are really afraid of - it's the KTM RC4:I see KTM have registered the domain name too.

Ooooooooohhhhhhhh maybe it's actually real!?

[NordieBoy]

This is apparently what Ducati are really afraid of - it's the KTM RC4:

That's a very long swingarm there.

To stop all that power flipping the bike all the time?

[HenryDorsetCase]

Nah man. what they should do is bolt a supercharger where the blanked off rear cylinder went.

Its been done, by Roger Goldammer among others. His latest streamliner is called Goldmember and is all over this (May) months Cycle World.

I worship Roger as a god!

www.goldammercycle.com

[HenryDorsetCase]

I imagine it weighs a bit more than doing a balancer shaft.

I had no idea it actually worked well. I assumed it was Ducati's usual resistance to redesigning their engines (Probably brought on by them not knowing if there would be money next month, so they are still penny pinchers) since they seem to hold on to designs for as long as they possibly can.

there is a really good article by Kevin Cameron about this: basically the point being if you add balancers and whatnot inside the engine to create a smoother running unit, you get a lot of benefits elsewhere, like you can have lighter frame and cycle parts because they arent having to be engineered to deal with those forces. Plus you dont get the rider fatigue etc etc. and the motor can rev higher (more power) without shaking itself to bits.

Plus the extra weight added inside the engine isn't that much, and its where you want extra weight if you have to have it.... not in the frame and cycle parts again.

Ive been talking to my local KTM dealer about LC4's but they have no info.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Doh, I meant KTM RC4.


mmmmmmm RC4

[henry]

According to this website

http://sameerkumar.blogspot.com/2008/03/singularly-sexy-amazing-ducati.html

It's a fake. See the last para

[Mental Trousers]

I imagine it weighs a bit more than doing a balancer shaft.

I had no idea it actually worked well. I assumed it was Ducati's usual resistance to redesigning their engines (Probably brought on by them not knowing if there would be money next month, so they are still penny pinchers) since they seem to hold on to designs for as long as they possibly can.
It worked very well. Main problem with the design is that it isn't as compact as using balance shafts. There was some minor vibration associated with the arm on the end of the 2nd conrod (caused the conrod to move in an arc rather than in a straight line), but that didn't stop it from to almost 11,000rpm.

It does have the considerable advantage that it's a v twin with the rear barrel/head missing so it can be made using the same tooling and production lines as the twin. Also, if it's based on a 90' v twin with a shared crank journal then it has fewer parts than using a balance shaft.

[bob181]

I'd love to have a ride on one just to see how it handles and where the engine makes its power and torque. Bet it would be the most fun anyone could have with their pants on!:devil2:

[alfalfa]

One lap with a Ducati Supermono factory racebike at the old Dutch TT circuit in Assen,Netherlands

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Ducati Supermono 570 firing up

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I :love: the old ducati supermono. $200k, if only

[jcupit69]

Even supercharged they would be pushing the envelope. Latest AMCN qoutes the KTM690 at 46KW [61HP], I'm picking the Ducati would be no more than 60HP in road trim. Given the weight this is unlikely to be the road rocket we could have hoped for.

Oh that'l be disapointing again <_< you can get an rs to give 70bhp and they weigh bout 140kgs. You may as well buy a nsr 250 n go get a 300cc bore up kit, 75+ bhp and 130 - 140kgs :done:

[FilthyLuka]

Oh that'l be disapointing again <_< you can get an rs to give 70bhp and they weigh bout 140kgs. You may as well buy a nsr 250 n go get a 300cc bore up kit, 75+ bhp and 130 - 140kgs :done:

RS250 puts out 45hp stock according to www.factorypro.com
KTM 250 GP bike puts out 100 horses at the wheel

What about the tourque? Im sure a 650 single will have considerably more tourque than a RS or NSR 250 smoker

[limbimtimwim]

One lap with a Ducati Supermono factory racebike at the old Dutch TT circuit in Assen,Netherlands
(snip)
Ducati Supermono 570 firing up
(snip)
I :love: the old ducati supermono. $200k, if onlyThanks so much for those, that was great.

The only time that bike sounds anything like my DR-Z is when the engine is not running. That's quite a special little beasty.

[McJim]

One lap with a Ducati Supermono factory racebike at the old Dutch TT circuit in Assen,Netherlands

I :love: the old ducati supermono. $200k, if only

Hey - did anyone spot aff-man at 1:06? :rofl:

Sexy wee bikes eh? Right...who's got a spare 999 and a stihl saw? Dunno if I could ride something called and Arsey For....sounds a bit ghey eh?

[xwhatsit]

The question is will these two weigh in at what a 500cc bike should cost, or are consumers gonna have to pay for the italian tag with a huge markup. A feasible option if not, but if they are too expensive....600 supersports would look far more attractive price-wise. Not aesthetically though cos that ducati is sex on wheels.
Nah. Not even close to being the same market. 600 supersprots compared to 500cc thumper? Completely different category. Like talking about people wanting to buy Holden V8s instead of Caterham 7s because they seem like better value. Anybody who's interested in this bike won't want something boring like a 600 four-pot.

there is a really good article by Kevin Cameron about this: basically the point being if you add balancers and whatnot inside the engine to create a smoother running unit, you get a lot of benefits elsewhere, like you can have lighter frame and cycle parts because they arent having to be engineered to deal with those forces. Plus you dont get the rider fatigue etc etc. and the motor can rev higher (more power) without shaking itself to bits.
That's precisely what they did with my old thumper. The original XL250 had to have a pretty heavy-duty weighty frame to cope with all the vibes; the XL250S and CB250RS had these nifty (but power-sucking) balancers, so Honda could make a very minimalistic lightweight frame, which kept the weight right down to 125kg. Heard of people pulling the balancers out for more power, then the poor wee bikes shaking themselves to bits in a matter of a few thousand kilometres; welds cracking in the frame and tanks coming apart at the seams.

[jcupit69]

RS250 puts out 45hp stock according to www.factorypro.com
KTM 250 GP bike puts out 100 horses at the wheel

What about the tourque? Im sure a 650 single will have considerably more tourque than a RS or NSR 250 smoker

True, but if there talking bout a 500cc odd single putting out 100+ hp i think its safe to asume that will be on a dynojet dyno and is gona be better compared to the dynojet rs reading of around 65bhp for the rs....just to compare the 2, relativly speaking. Personally i believe the factorypro, if only all dynos worked that way!!!

Theres no way if your talking bout the factory pro readouts the single would be putting out anywhere near the kinda figures the gossip would have us believe. Would be good to get one on the factory pro, but till then were gona have to go on the manufactures lies to get a relative comparison