Vans- Hiace vs Bongo/Vannette

[bert_is_evil]

I'm looking to buy a van in the next few months so have been browsing around at what's available. In previous threads the majority of people have said a Toyota Hiace is the way to go, but I've noticed that they cost substantially more than Nissan Vannette/Mazda Bongo with similar k's - anyone know why that is? I'd be keen to hear of peoples experiences with the vannette/bongo vans, their reliability etc.

[FROSTY]

Bert. I'd suggest to you buy a van sooner rather than later.

-reason being if you want diesel they are gonna start skyrocketing in price as the realisation that the minister of treansport has stiffed the motoring public --yet again. (no pre 2004 diesels are allowed in the country)
Short version --DONT buy a mazda diesel
The Nissan Homey is pretty good but I must say the toyotas just seem to deserve tha extra money they cost by keepin on keepin on.
What price range ya in?
If around the 3-6 range --check pillars and roof sills for rust

[bert_is_evil]

Thanks Frosty, I'm looking in the 5-7K range, but the only Toyota's I can find in that range are round 200Km's which worries me. Will check out the Nissan Homey.

[Edbear]

PLease! PLease! PLease! DO NOT BUY a Mazda Bongo/Nissan Vanette diesel! Nissan, in a moment of sheer madness decided to sell the Mazda Bongo with Vanette badges.

I had a Mazda Bongo diesel back in the '90's before it became apparent that the Mazda and Mitsi diesel's were handgrenades! The biggest issue was they have a hardened bore and you cannot rebore them unless you resleeve them as the boring just removes the hardening and they last about another 20-30,000 km and wear out again. The other issue is the cam location flange is only a half-circle groove and the cam flange tends to crack as it's not fully supported. This is on the Mazda's. The Mitsi's had head issues, though the later 2.5 was a much better engine.

The actual NISSAN Vanette made by Nissan is a good little van and I'd have no problem recomending them. The Toyota is a good van, the earlier 2.4 diesel's had head issues and the turbo 2.4's weren't Toyota's best effort.

Make sure whatever you buy has had regular servicing, otherwise you could be buying yourself an expensive lesson. One can usually tell if a diesel engine is okay by smelling the oil. It should also start instantly from cold and then idle smoothly after the glow-plugs have been activated, though the newer models are "instant-on" without needing to wait for glow-plugs.

Check for leaks around the injector pump, expensive to fix!

[Edbear]

Bert. I'd suggest to you buy a van sooner rather than later.

-reason being if you want diesel they are gonna start skyrocketing in price as the realisation that the minister of treansport has stiffed the motoring public --yet again. (no pre 2004 diesels are allowed in the country)
Short version --DONT buy a mazda diesel
The Nissan Homey is pretty good but I must say the toyotas just seem to deserve tha extra money they cost by keepin on keepin on.
What price range ya in?
If around the 3-6 range --check pillars and roof sills for rust


Yup! Agree! I had a Nissan Caravan, (had 2), which is the Homy with another badge. The 2.3 and 2.7 motors are the old pushrod type and as reliable as a brick! Slower than other vans, though, but very reliable. My last Caravan was the turbo 2.7 GT coach and a beautiful, fast, reliable vehicle! The turbo just went so well!

[bert_is_evil]

ok, these comments do explain why they are cheaper! Is the petrol bongo/vanette pretty crappy too? It's been quite a while since I've owned a cage, is diesel still cheaper or is it much of a muchness with road tax included (assuming from Frosty's comments they are)?

Most of the vans I've looked at have been imports so safe to say little or no servicing has been done....

[vifferman]

Don't buy a white van, or else you will become an Evil White Van Driver, one of the biggest menaces on the road. :confused:

[Edbear]

ok, these comments do explain why they are cheaper! Is the petrol bongo/vanette pretty crappy too? It's been quite a while since I've owned a cage, is diesel still cheaper or is it much of a muchness with road tax included (assuming from Frosty's comments they are)?

Most of the vans I've looked at have been imports so safe to say little or no servicing has been done....


Depends on the mileage you're planning on doing. If not too much, then I'd probably go for a petrol in the smaller Bongo/Vanette type, but the bigger vans are VERY thirsty in petrol. The 1.8 Bongo petrol seemed to be fine and the later 2lt was okay, but I wouldn't recommend a bigger petrol. Go for the diesel if a Hi Ace or Homy/Caravan sized vehicle. Nissan petrol's never die!

Someone like Frosty may be the best person to get you what you're looking for, at least you'd be dealing with someone trustworthy...

[bert_is_evil]

Wonder if crazefox could do this

[bert_is_evil]

Depends on the mileage you're planning on doing. If not too much, then I'd probably go for a petrol in the smaller Bongo/Vanette type, but the bigger vans are VERY thirsty in petrol. The 1.8 Bongo petrol seemed to be fine and the later 2lt was okay, but I wouldn't recommend a bigger petrol. Go for the diesel if a Hi Ace or Homy/Caravan sized vehicle. Nissan petrol's never die!

Someone like Frosty may be the best person to get you what you're looking for, at least you'd be dealing with someone trustworthy...

Thanks, that does help a lot - I'm not planning on doing too many k's in it, just the occassional trip.

[FROSTY]

ok, these comments do explain why they are cheaper! Is the petrol bongo/vanette pretty crappy too? It's been quite a while since I've owned a cage, is diesel still cheaper or is it much of a muchness with road tax included (assuming from Frosty's comments they are)?

Most of the vans I've looked at have been imports so safe to say little or no servicing has been done....
Basicly COUNT ON --doint oil filter,air filter and fuel filter (cheap insurance) then take it for a run at 100km/h for an hour or two. in other words get it hot
Then Get the glow plugs and injection serviced/checked.
As a rule even taking into account diesel tax and servicing the diesel vans work out cheaper to own/run.

[FROSTY]

It really depends too on what you want the van FOR. If its for transporting a bike you need room for --well the bike.
A personal suggestion would be a 2.0l petrol liteace noa
or a 2.0 diesel --Jorjas got an 8 setasr and its bloody great.--runns on the smell of an oily one

[mxracer_nz]

200K`s for a hiace is nothing man they run 500+ trouble free definitly go with a hiace.

[dhunt]

Then Get the glow plugs and injection serviced/checked.

Frosty can you explain to me what getting the injection serviced/checked would do/check for? I'm just curious seeing as I own a diesel.

[bert_is_evil]

What is the difference between a hiace and a liteace (one is higher and one is lighter)?

[FROSTY]

I've found with jap import diesels that the diesel pump/injection tends to be set fairly rich.
Its not an apsolute -every time by by and large thats the case.
by giving it a run and getting it up to temp for an hour you are "blowing out the cobwebs" ready for the adjustments--if needed to be made

[FROSTY]

What is the difference between a hiace and a liteace (one is higher and one is lighter)?
the hiace is bigger by quite a lot
Rear liteace deck is only about 2.0m long --Ive fitted Jorjas lil yb125 in there-Just
Hiace is at least 2.7 in the back
--Hiace 2.7 standard,2.9 long wheel base and 3.1 jumbo
This is all rear deck lenth

[NordieBoy]

Yup! Agree! I had a Nissan Caravan, (had 2), which is the Homy with another badge. The 2.3 and 2.7 motors are the old pushrod type and as reliable as a brick! Slower than other vans, though, but very reliable. My last Caravan was the turbo 2.7 GT coach and a beautiful, fast, reliable vehicle! The turbo just went so well!

Nissan Caravan here with the 2.7 D. Very low geared. I think of it as a 4 spd with underdrive.
180000km and running sweet.

[Edbear]

Nissan Caravan here with the 2.7 D. Very low geared. I think of it as a 4 spd with underdrive.
180000km and running sweet.


Actually, I noticed that, as my work van was an auto and I thought it was about the slowest vehicle I could get, then I drove a mate's manual and I reckoned it was slower! Very undergeared and noisy compared to my auto.

However the turbo coach was like a whole different animal! Auto again, but fast both in top speed and acceleration almost matched a Hi Ace 3lt turbo coach I followed one day. He could pull away but I was heavily loaded on a holiday trip and he just had him and his Missus on board.

Best coach I owned was an '84 Hi Ace Custom, 2.4 diesel, five speed column shift manual. It had had the head done, and topped out, (on a deserted back road), at 155km/h indicated! Pulled incredibly well up the Kaimais to the point where I was often asked if it was a turbo! Very good ride and handling, better than the Nissan's.

[FROSTY]

My Hiace was the same--revvin ints head off at 100km/h I could take off in second even with a bike on board.
Majic Motu sorted me out with a different diff ($1600 worth)
Now it struggles a tiny bit in first gear with two bikes and genset and tyres etc etc on board but the fuel economy is fantastic -the fuel saving alone has paid the $1600 back by now.
IF YOU CAN I definitely reccomend a buying the coach version rather than the commercial version
The comfort level is unbelieveably different.

[bert_is_evil]

ok showing my ignorance again - what's the diff between a coach & commercial version?

[Edbear]

ok showing my ignorance again - what's the diff between a coach & commercial version?


Don't apologise for ignorance! Your attitude is great!

A coach will have a lot more insulation, be quieter, have opening windows an of course more bling! One of the most important things, though, is that it will probably have higher gearing as well, which makes a long trip much more comfortable. More comfy seats which can be removed if required.

[bert_is_evil]

Well that sounds like a much better option, not sure how to identify - I guess you can just tell by looking but is it usually included in the model name in some way?

[Edbear]

Well that sounds like a much better option, not sure how to identify - I guess you can just tell by looking but is it usually included in the model name in some way?


Usually very obvious which is coach or van, browse Trade Me checking a few out, and you'll soon pick up the differences. The guy I sold, (reluctantly), my Nissan Coach to was going to take the rear seats out and use it for work and being a 4 wheel drive, for launching his boat, then for the holiday period put the seats in.

Last Summer I took out the rear bench seat, turned the middle "Captain's Chairs" around and put a double bed in. Great! Front and rear air-con, lots of roof lights, tinted windows with curtains! We had a ball!

[barty5]

ok showing my ignorance again - what's the diff between a coach & commercial version?

be carfull if you get the coach it will most likely have a higher floor which means if you ever want to fit bike in you will put in on its side also steer clear of the toyota 2L motors same as were in the surfs very common for cracking heads other wise toyotas just keep going diesel just remember to do regular services

[F5 Dave]

As with anything rust is the killer. After early to mid 90s they got better painted with dipping of most panels, but the pillars are the major area to watch for. Toyota red tends to oxidise pretty badly, I have a 95 2.4 petrol in red. Have to keep polishing it to keep the paint in check. This century paints are far more stable uv wise. ZR is std wheelbase, ZL long.

I'm going to paint it when I next get a bonus as I'm keeping it, only has 250k on the clock (got it at 66k). For occasional runs I'd go petrol. There is a formula for when disease-als get worth it, used to be around 30-40 thou a year. Maybe this has changed.

I used to run one of the real old mid 80s vanettes with the 1500 engine. That was a gem & had great pulling power for the tiny engine & handled like a car. Was big enough for most bikes, but is a push. Rust killed it after many fixups.
The HiAce was a major upgrade, double sliding doors are great (customs won't have that).

[FROSTY]

A Coach is a totally different spec vehicle
1)normally have comfortable front seats.
2)if you leave the middle seats in and just remove the rears and by the door seat you have a legal 4 seat vehicle
3) being fully lined its shit loads quieter
4) being fully lined you can comfotably sleep in it.
5)the suspension package is different--a commercial usually has suspension set up for carrying big loads. Again makes them heaps nicer to drive.
6) the air con works
7)they have gear ratio's better suited to open road speeds.

What I would do in a coach is order a set of overlenth rear door stays
Thattl lift the door edge another 500mm when open--makes loading bikes heaps easier

[Maha]

I'm looking to buy a van in the next few months so have been browsing around at what's available. In previous threads the majority of people have said a Toyota Hiace is the way to go, but I've noticed that they cost substantially more than Nissan Vannette/Mazda Bongo with similar k's - anyone know why that is? I'd be keen to hear of peoples experiences with the vannette/bongo vans, their reliability etc.

Because the Hi-Ace is unbeatable when it comes to vans, we picked one up for $9995 about 4 years ago, 96' i think, hasn't missed a beat, just the usual, tyres....very low mantainance.

[bert_is_evil]

ok it's becoming fairly clear that I know f*&k all about cars (well van's anyway)! Thanks for all the useful info so far, it looks like I'd be better off with a coach for my purposes. I'm guessing they are a bit more expensive of course.

[CookMySock]

the Toyota is emphatically a better vehicle. Try and spend a bit more if you can - particularly if you can get something with the 1KZ-TE Engine in it. These go like a haunted shithouse. Don't worry about hi-K's on toyotas.

As has been stated - it must start instantly and idle without so much as ONE miss or cough from DEAD COLD (first start of the day.) You will get the usual tiny puff of grey on start.

If the engine has been pre-warmed or driven that day then organise to come back another day first thing in the morning, and see its first-start-of-the-day. If they won't permit this then WALK AWAY. Put your hand on the engine first to check if it has been warmed up. If a diesel engine even falters slightly on a dead cold start then it is on borrowed time. (except for a old battery)

Preferably start the engine yourself, or ask them to use no throttle at all when starting.

I got two hilux surfs.
DB

[FROSTY]

Hey DB--how many jap import diesels have ya known?
From what you are saying if a diesel has a couple of dud glow plugs its fucked.
Or if the air cleaner and fuel filter are clogged--its fucked
What Does need to be done is an inspection by a DIESEL mechanic.

[CookMySock]

Hey DB--how many jap import diesels have ya known?
From what you are saying if a diesel has a couple of dud glow plugs its fucked.
Or if the air cleaner and fuel filter are clogged--its fucked
What Does need to be done is an inspection by a DIESEL mechanic.take it easy frosty, I'm on your side. It's just my opinion too ok.

I have 5 diesel vehicles, one of which has 250,000kms which are all my K's - Yep, it's a toyota. Two others are 1985 vintage commercial vehicles with 600,000kms on them (each), and at least 5 engines worn out in each one. I'm not a diesel mechanic, but I know how to wreck them, how to not wreck them, and how to pick a good one.

If its got rooted filters or glow plugs then it hasn't been serviced. Walk away. You might get a good engine out of it if luck is on year side, but my bet is they ran it till their mechanic said to ditch it. As they do.

Chill out, dood. Beer time!
DB

[FROSTY]

Ya know its by this kinda misunderstanding that stupid flame wars start--argggg :slap:
I meant to say-what da fuck do u kno bro :p

iffn it be a jap import theres other reasonss to dump a vaqn--owt to do wif it being fucked.

[CookMySock]

Ya know its by this kinda misunderstanding that stupid flame wars start--argggg :slap: yeh yeh for sure. :2thumbsup


I meant to say-what da fuck do u kno bro :pyeh, quite a bit bro.. just like you and many others - not complete dumbarses ay.


iffn it be a jap import theres other reasonss to dump a vaqn--owt to do wif it being fucked.sure, I have to sell one of my surfs to pay my tax.. I hope no one thinks anything is wrong with it, coz its utterly mint, just tax is due, sigh.


DB

[FROSTY]

I have to sell one of my surfs to pay my tax.. I hope no one thinks anything is wrong with it, coz its utterly mint, just tax is due, sigh. DB
Nahh its gotta be fucked--Tell ya wot I'll take it off ya hands--save ya towing it to the wreckers

[Maha]

iffn it be a jap import theres other reasonss to dump a vaqn--owt to do wif it being fucked.

Put ya feet up FROSTY, must have been a long day, oh and buy me a rum mate?..:2thumbsup

[FROSTY]

Put ya feet up FROSTY, must have been a long day, oh and buy me a rum mate?..:2thumbsup
heheehehe--nahh bro lmao-- its all good dude

[CookMySock]

Nahh its gotta be fucked--Tell ya wot I'll take it off ya hands--save ya towing it to the wreckerspfft, it'll pull your pus bucket in half LOL :first::headbang:

DB

[FROSTY]

Now there my son lies a bloody good story.
A guy bought a 2.0l car offa us awhile back.
Lived in the far north-Kawakawa way
Tow bar rating 1600kg.
Turned up with a car trailer on back of his trade in. -trailer weighed in at 600kg unladen
Deal done we asked--hey where ya off to with the trailer.?
Gonna get my surf -it blew up down wellington ways.
--How ya gonna get it back?
--On here --single car trailer with no brakes.
A week later the guy calls us--
Ya sold me a dud --The brakes are F%$% and the transmission is cooked.
GEEEE go Figure

[CookMySock]

:gob:

some people just don't get it ay :bash:

DB

[Edbear]

Now there my son lies a bloody good story.
A guy bought a 2.0l car offa us awhile back.
Lived in the far north-Kawakawa way
Tow bar rating 1600kg.
Turned up with a car trailer on back of his trade in. -trailer weighed in at 600kg unladen
Deal done we asked--hey where ya off to with the trailer.?
Gonna get my surf -it blew up down wellington ways.
--How ya gonna get it back?
--On here --single car trailer with no brakes.
A week later the guy calls us--
Ya sold me a dud --The brakes are F%$% and the transmission is cooked.
GEEEE go Figure



Welcome to the world of car dealing!!!! You'll get 'em all!:first:

[westie]

No matter how hard you try you wont beat a hiace, unless you distract them at the traffic lights an get the jump on them for the drag off. I've tried even rolling starts at the traffic lights in my kia preggio(no need to tell me how shit they are)

Worst embarhassment from a hiace was getting over taken up hill by a van load of (10) obese workforce workers. There were only 2 of us in the van with dropped jaws.:shit:

Dont fuck around get a hiace!

[Motu]

I don't know why Toyota's have such an exalted rating,they aren't that good! They can and do break down,sometimes in a big way.Nissan's are very underated,their diesels are by far the best of the Japanese small diesels,particularly the TD27 - it's the real deal...no alloy heads,no cambelts,no bucket followers to smash the cam and head when a belt breaks.

Small vans,I'd go for a Vanette,petrol or diesel,both are good.They are a real donkey,slow,but will pull 4 times their own weight,and then a loaded trailer as well.But very uncomfortable and most of the diesels have no powersteering....very tough to park.Much better than a Townace/Liteace/Masterace.

Big van is a tie between Hiace and Caravan/Homy....but if diesel go for the Nissan.Who needs to pay for extra maintenance.Stay well clear of any Mazda/Fords,the Bongo/Econovan is crap....but you will hear stories of 450,000km plus without problems,and they are true.Mitsi vans aren't as bad as the reputation would have you believe - the only bad 4D56's are imports,NZ new seem to all run well over 400,000km without problems.The Hyundai H100 is a good van too,the diesel is their version of the 4D56,and at this point in time seems to do the job.

[Edbear]

I don't know...etc.

All very good advice! Another mention of the Kia Preggio, though. My mate bought one new, put extra seats in it to make it a cheap coach, and it's done about 150,000km now and he's had no problems with it! It's for sale as he's just bought a new Hyundai Coach, just released in Feb.

The Kia is on Trade Me. I'd have to check which posting, though.

Only issue with the Kia like the Nissan's is a bit lacking in power as another poster mentioned... BUt the motor is a 2.7 pushrod diesel and very reliable.

[BIHB@0610]

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If you're interested in scoring poon, go for a Hiace real soon!

Hiaces come in an engaging array of colours, ranging from snow, bisque and Spanish white, through to eggshell, antique white and old lace.

Try one now and forever know the pulling power that is .... Hiace.

Call our freephone within the next five minutes and we'll throw in a free beaded seat cover to massage your cellulitic thighs.

Advertorial proudly sponsored by Dobalina Motorhomes in Tauranga. :buggerd:

[Sollyboy]

Thanks Frosty, I'm looking in the 5-7K range, but the only Toyota's I can find in that range are round 200Km's which worries me. Will check out the Nissan Homey.

There are plenty of really good mitsubishi L300 and a few L400 in that price range, the ex Coke L400 are great , auto ,air con ,mid roof,petrol, etc

[westie]

If you're interested in scoring poon, go for a Hiace real soon!

Try one now and forever know the pulling power that is .... Hiace.

I dont find it surprising that other people know the power of the hiace.
Is there another 1997 jappa that can be sold for $8000 with 750 000km's on the clock??? Redicurous!!

[et al]

My preference is for the HiAce - but whatever brand/model you go for you won't regret getting one that has Twin sliding doors (if you have a choice).

[smoky]

I have 5 diesel vehicles, .... Two others are 1985 vintage commercial vehicles with 600,000kms on them (each), and at least 5 engines worn out in each one.

5 motors in 600,000 ks – that’s only 125,000 each motor, that’s a disaster!

I’ve had a Nissan vanette 2ltr petrol, could 180klm/hr with 6 adults in it day after day (on the back strait at puke of course).

Clocked up 250,000 ks before I needed to do the top end.

I’ve a got Toyota Grandvia – 3 ltr Turbo Diesel – magic van, just the best van out there for sure
I’ve always been told don’t buy a diesel with a motor that starts with ‘m’ (Mazda, Mitzi, Musso. Merc ..get the idea).

[CookMySock]

their diesels are by far the best of the Japanese small diesels,particularly the TD27 - it's the real deal...SNORT!! have you driven a Toyota turbo-diesel later than a 1995 ??


Big van is a tie between Hiace and Caravan/Homy....but if diesel go for the Nissan.LOL.. NO!! Drive a modern (1995+) Hiace and be amazed!!


Stay well clear of any Mazda/Fords,the Bongo/Econovan is crap.... YES I would go along with this advice.

But seriously, drive a modern Toyota turbo diesel, and watch it go! The 1KZ-TE engine, or later. Awesome.

DB

[NordieBoy]

Big van is a tie between Hiace and Caravan/Homy....but if diesel go for the Nissan.

Could we drop the diff from a Homy into our Caravan to gear it up?

[Motu]

I’ve always been told don’t buy a diesel with a motor that starts with ‘m’ (Mazda, Mitzi, Musso. Merc ..get the idea).

Wrong - you don't buy a diesel with an alloy head,cambelt or bucket tappets.''M'' covers some of those don'ts,but so does ''T'',''N'',''H'',''I''....etc.

Alloy heads aren't strong enough for diesel use,they soften,bend and crack - their replacement becomes part of the maintenance schedule.Cambelts need replacement at regular intervals,a stupid expense on a maintenance free diesel.If they break there is no piston to valve clearance on a diesel,and the valves are vertical.They are pushed up by the piston....if there are rockers they will break,or pushrods will bend....but if there are bucket tappets then they will push up and smash the camshaft.This happens to finger followers too.

The brand doesn't matter - it's construction does.

[CookMySock]

5 motors in 600,000 ks – that’s only 125,000 each motor, that’s a disaster!No its not. The vehicles idle for 8-13 hours at a time and rarely get warm. In that 8-13 hours they might do 120k's max. This is termed "severe service" for a diesel. The next problem is they are 2.8L naturally aspirated, what we in the trade refer to as "gutless." The next problem is, they are autos. No diesel was EVER designed to do this, but I am stuck with it.

Trust me, after 20 years of running diesel commercial vehicles, I know my numbers.

DB

[Motu]

But seriously, drive a modern Toyota turbo diesel, and watch it go! The 1KZ-TE engine, or later. Awesome.


You are talking about common rail - try a modern Mitsubishi or Nissan common rail diesel,and then compare to a Toyota common rail.The Toyota still has a cambelt,although it only goes from injector pump to camshaft and runs at half speed - still a stupid thing to put on a diesel motor.

[CookMySock]

You are talking about common rail - try a modern Mitsubishi or Nissan common rail diesel,and then compare to a Toyota common rail.The Toyota still has a cambelt,although it only goes from injector pump to camshaft and runs at half speed - still a stupid thing to put on a diesel motor.the 1KZ-TE is a distributor pump AIUI. Yes, I expect a modern modern diesel of any sort is very good. I have no problems with cambelts unless they are not maintained - just change them on schedule..

DB