Red-light cameras make $$$

[JimBob]

"Ken Baguley denied last night that his idea would amount to road tolls, saying it would be aimed purely at easing traffic congestion rather than raising revenue"

Now we know. As if we didnt already. The softening up process has begun before the camera trial has even started.
The red light cameras that are to be trialled in Auckland will be able to be used to ease congestion.
thats right, using the number-plate recognition technology the cameras come with, the beaurocrats see $$$$$$.
To 'help us' they will set the cameras up in congested areas, get your plate number and send you a bill for the privilege of being stuck in traffic.
But we only have 10 cameras, I know, we can rotate one camera through the intersections so it "looks" like there a lots of red light cameras and the other nine can go on "congestion" duty
So if we want red light runners sorted out we have to agree to tolls.
They cant help themselves can they.

[Gubb]

When you say Congestion duty, you mean people entering blocked intersections?

Good. that fucks me off, particularly when they enter blocked intersections, the lights change, then the traffic on the other road can't get past due to said fuckwit. Sounds good to me.

[TripleZee Dyno]

When you say Congestion duty, you mean people entering blocked intersections?

Good. that fucks me off, particularly when they enter blocked intersections, the lights change, then the traffic on the other road can't get past due to said fuckwit. Sounds good to me.
I think the idea is to put a toll on certain roads, (but call it something else)
There is probably a law against blocking an intersection so if caught you can argue the point. Not cost effective for the council.
A toll on the other hand is a straightforward entry fee. Like buying a ticket to the movies. You pay your money and you can go down this road.

[Edbear]

HAs anyone considered the carnage caused by the increasing number of red-light runners?

These drivers are a menace and I have absolutely no sympathy for anyone caught running a red light. I agree with the poster who mentioned jamming intersections by those too impatient to wait.

Yes, traffic is diabolical in Auckland and it's a major frustration trying to get anywhere if you're even a little bit in a hurry, but running red-lights is arrogantly dangerous!

[WRT]

I think this is what JimBob is referring to:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/topic/story.cfm?c_id=348&objectid=10497567

Basically, the plan to put tolls in place on key congested roads such as Grafton Bridge, similar to how London has their congestion charges. It will be using the same numberplate recognition technology in use with the 10 new redlight cameras. One of these cameras is already at the end of the Grafton bridge, on the Symonds St end. However, as it's looking up Symonds St, I don't see how they could use it to recognise the plates of vehicles entering the bridge, as traffic coming from K'Rd would be side on to the camera and the plates would be very difficult to read from there.

[WRT]

Yes, traffic is diabolical in Auckland and it's a major frustration trying to get anywhere if you're even a little bit in a hurry, but running red-lights is arrogantly dangerous!

Fully agree, blocking the intersections is appalling, and running the red at speed is even worse. Particularly as a motorcyclist, after lane splitting to the front of the queue you are expected (and obliged) to take off quickly. I've had a few occasions where I've spotted a red light runner and had to wait before going, when the cars next to me haven't spotted him and actually started to pull out into the intersection. Puts the shits right up me.

I've also noticed that a lot of scooter riders don't check before going on a green either. These are normally the ones that are riding without proper safety gear - they seem to have no idea of their own mortality.

I always check before going on a green, and if there is a red light runner, I will rev the bike and inch forward while turning my helmet to watch the red light runner, to let the cars know that I'm intending to go, just as soon as the way is clear. Seems to work, people generally get the idea. Otherwise, the car drivers seem to spend more time watching me, not watching the intersection. Last thing I want is for them to push past me and cause a crash with me right in the middle of it all.

[Edbear]

I think this is what JimBob is referring to:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/topic/story.cfm?c_id=348&objectid=10497567

Basically, the plan to put tolls in place on key congested roads such as Grafton Bridge, similar to how London has their congestion charges. It will be using the same numberplate recognition technology in use with the 10 new redlight cameras. One of these cameras is already at the end of the Grafton bridge, on the Symonds St end. However, as it's looking up Symonds St, I don't see how they could use it to recognise the plates of vehicles entering the bridge, as traffic coming from K'Rd would be side on to the camera and the plates would be very difficult to read from there.


Ahah, slightly different from what I thought the original post was about. Thanks for clearing that up! With Auckland becoming as bad as London for congestion, I can see the pollies seeing a lucrative way of addressing the issue...

[avgas]

A toll on non-highways in NZ. Great what next some kind of road tax included in our petrol? wait hang on.....

[Swoop]

The red light cameras that are to be trialled in Auckland will be able to be used to ease congestion.
thats right, using the number-plate recognition technology the cameras come with, the beaurocrats see $$$$$$.
So if we want red light runners sorted out we have to agree to tolls.
They cant help themselves can they.
Attacking red light runners gets my support.
Also, if people cannot get the concept of "do not enter an intersection if your way out is blocked" too f-ing bad.

As I've said before, armed enforcement on intersections (at complete random). Run the red = BANG!
Watch RL running cease overnight.

[Big Dave]

Personally I think this is great news.

Watch yourselves when you stop when they do come in - move right to one side of the lane - but I'll be cheering as all the dickwits that charge through are photographed.

[crazybigal]

and ping you if your rego is not uptodate!
the cops in the UK have in car cameras that can detect your plate number and process it to see if your road tax is overdue!
The joy of it all!!!

[vifferman]

Personally I think this is great news.
Me too! :niceone:
I've taken to pausing when the lights at the end of our street go green, because so many fwits run them. It's obvious there's a lot of twunts around there who decide before they come to a light that they're going through, no matter what.
Time for my idea of "pop-up on red" road spikes to be introduced, I reckon.

[Mikkel]

Personally I think this is great news.

Watch yourselves when you stop when they do come in - move right to one side of the lane - but I'll be cheering as all the dickwits that charge through are photographed.

Hell yes, about time something is done about this problem. And they should chuck some demerit points after the offense of running the red light as well - about 50 of them would be suitable! :yes:

I am tempted to have someone buy me a new rear bumper for my car... So unless I'm in a hurry I'll brake for yellow when I can!


and ping you if your rego is not uptodate!

See now we're talking. The number of unregistered vehicles on the roads in NZ is a big problem as well. If you don't agree think about who's likely to do a hit'n'run and who's likely to do a hit and stay?
Besides, I think it's fair to expect people to keep their vehicles in a decent condition - and no rego without WOF goes some way to ensure this.

[Ixion]

Folks, this proposal is NOTHING to do with catching red light runners. It is solely about being able to send you a bill for using certain roads. Road tolling.

[Mikkel]

Folks, this proposal is NOTHING to do with catching red light runners. It is solely about being able to send you a bill for using certain roads. Road tolling.

Well, I'd rather pay some money and not have to share the road with red-light runners than being able to share it with them for free.

[WRT]

Folks, this proposal is NOTHING to do with catching red light runners. It is solely about being able to send you a bill for using certain roads. Road tolling.

Sure, the proposal might have nothing to do with red light runners, but this thread has everything to do with them! Check the title! :)

I think JimBob was a bit confused on the matter at the start, but the rest of us have stuck to the threads topic quite well, and in fact even talking about toll roads is now positively off topic!

[sunhuntin]

Hell yes, about time something is done about this problem. And they should chuck some demerit points after the offense of running the red light as well - about 50 of them would be suitable! :yes:

I am tempted to have someone buy me a new rear bumper for my car... So unless I'm in a hurry I'll brake for yellow when I can!



See now we're talking. The number of unregistered vehicles on the roads in NZ is a big problem as well. If you don't agree think about who's likely to do a hit'n'run and who's likely to do a hit and stay?
Besides, I think it's fair to expect people to keep their vehicles in a decent condition - and no rego without WOF goes some way to ensure this.

agreed on that... the number of vehicles that come in with rego/wof well out of date is amazing... seen one bus come in with a rego of 2003. ok, the bus looked like it just got driven out of a swamp, but still.

and yeh, im getting into the habit of waiting at greens... never seen anyone run a red here, but its bound to happen.

[Trouser]

I'm very glad I got off that sinking ship and moved to Marton. Best thing I did, ever.

If this sort of shit is really starting to get you down, leave Auckland. It's a bit like giving up smoking in that it really hurts for a while and takes a few years to get over but it is worth it.

Glosing the grafton bridge for 12 hours a day so a few buses can get to newmarket is a bit silly really. Not to mention the $70million cost. Golly.

[JimBob]

Sure, the proposal might have nothing to do with red light runners, but this thread has everything to do with them! Check the title! :)

I think JimBob was a bit confused on the matter at the start, but the rest of us have stuck to the threads topic quite well, and in fact even talking about toll roads is now positively off topic!

I wasnt confused, I am anti red light runners as much as the next person.
The point is they will extend the use the equipment for toll collecting.
And it wont be long before red light runners take a back seat to toll collection.
Bit like speed cameras.
Double edged sword

[vifferman]

Glosing the grafton bridge for 12 hours a day so a few buses can get to newmarket is a bit silly really. Not to mention the $70million cost. Golly.
It's no sillier than the expensive busway they built: most of the time it's unused (apart from "rush" hour :rolleyes:)

[Dave Lobster]

The point is they will extend the use the equipment for toll collecting.
And it wont be long before red light runners take a back seat to toll collection.
Bit like speed cameras.
Double edged sword

Widespread speed cameras is a double edged sword. On the up side.. they replace real policemen. Which means (so long as you know where the cameras are) you don't have to obey any speed limits at all. On the other hand, nobody ever gets prosecuted for dangerous driving. This is what has happened in other countries that have introduced the revenue cameras.

[Trouser]

It's no sillier than the expensive busway they built: most of the time it's unused (apart from "rush" hour :rolleyes:)

Thats a personal favourite that one.

[Timber020]

Red light cameras should be put in, I dont like big brother crap, but they will save some innocent people alot of pain, and they will hurt a few arseholes.

[Robbo]

Yep! Red Light cameras get my tick of approval as this is a serious safety for all us bike riders. I still fail to see any benefits from speed cameras other than to boost the Governments coffers.

[The Pastor]

A toll on non-highways in NZ. Great what next some kind of road tax included in our petrol? wait hang on.....
we can get double tax on our petrol to cover the loss in earnings from not having tolls...... hell might as well increase the rego on motorbikes because um.... um.. they are big bad and dangerous.

[MaxB]

After almost being wiped out by a redlight runner taxi driver I'm all for red light cameras but..........

Congestion charges hurt people in the zone. I read somewhere that businesses lose 15% of their takings on average. In Europe some councils compensate businesses for their loss. Also some zones are bike friendly and bikes are exempt form those charges. With extra bike parking free of charge. Public transport is upgraded to world class standards.

Can you see any of that happening in Auckland? Yeah right. It still costs me less to drive a V8 or big V6 into town than it does to take the bus or train and in 1/3 of the time.

[Eddieb]

I think this is what JimBob is referring to:
One of these cameras is already at the end of the Grafton bridge, on the Symonds St end. However, as it's looking up Symonds St, I don't see how they could use it to recognise the plates of vehicles entering the bridge, as traffic coming from K'Rd would be side on to the camera and the plates would be very difficult to read from there.

There will be another camera facing the other way somewhere you haven't spotted.

I used to have shares in the company providing the cameras, they are very good. Overseas they have shown a significant reduction in redlight runners over time and are normally operated on a revenue sharing agreement with the manufacturer so the cost of entry and ongoing for the councils is far lower than would otherwise be. A several year pilot agreement is normally signed with a 2 or 5 year right of renewal for the council

The pictures they produce are good, you can't deny it wasn't you driving and the proof you ran the light is complete, before and after shots with times etc.

[Boob Johnson]

Having lived in Auckland for over a decade I whole heartedly support red light camera's. It is a well known fact by everyone I knew there that you never just "go" when the light turns green, you always check because so many run reds in Jafaland.


Charging to use certain roads? Geez folks get with the times, open your eyes & take a look outside. London has a toll (bout 5 punds I believe) to drive in to the city beyond a certain limit, as do MANY other cities. It's about time Aucklanders wised up & got out of their cars. So many crap on about how bad the traffic is yet wouldn't for a second consider using public transport. No doubt there will be many of the same people crying about tolls...............HELLO!!!! :rolleyes:

[Jiminy]

I vaguely recall that Singapore and London successfully reduced vehicle traffic thanks to their tolls. Removing street parking in town is another very effective measure against traffic congestion.

Now I understand that those two measures are fairly unpopular. But don't we all hate rush hour traffic?

Of course, this only really works if you have some alternatives, e.g. a proper public transportation system.

[Dave Lobster]

Introducing the charging in London has made Livingstone really popular.

[more_fasterer]

More red-light cameras please. What's not to like? Better public perception of the enforcement agency, a big revenue stream, a means of identifying repeat offenders as dangers to other road users... oh, and doing something that would actually contribute to safer roads


So many crap on about how bad the traffic is yet wouldn't for a second consider using public transport.

I bet a lot more people would consider using the public transport in this little town if it was a viable alternative to private transport..

[Swoop]

London has a toll (bout 5 punds I believe) to drive in to the city
8 Pounds (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_congestion_charge). ~$24

[avgas]

we can get double tax on our petrol to cover the loss in earnings from not having tolls...... hell might as well increase the rego on motorbikes because um.... um.. they are big bad and dangerous.
Its happened.....quite a few times.....since i had my 98 RG!!!!!

[Manxman]

HAs anyone considered the carnage caused by the increasing number of red-light runners?

These drivers are a menace and I have absolutely no sympathy for anyone caught running a red light. I agree with the poster who mentioned jamming intersections by those too impatient to wait.

Yes, traffic is diabolical in Auckland and it's a major frustration trying to get anywhere if you're even a little bit in a hurry, but running red-lights is arrogantly dangerous!



Feck - n - ell...finally someone who sees some sense about this. Bling.

If you don't believe red light running is the closest thing to attempted murder going, then park yer arse down at the bottom of Haywards Hill one day - any day, cos it happens on a fecken frighteningly regular basis. I've seen (and I'm 101% sure that every other rider who frequents this set of lights will testify) many, many stupid decisions being made. Even despite the fact that these lights have a 2 second delay between red in one direction, to green the other, people still run these...badly.

Revenue gathering my arse...let's put it this way: how else would you police and stop people from red light running apart from stinging them a couple of hundred bucks each pop?

Red light running is a growing trend in NZ, it needs to be stopped and people need to understand that "it's not ok".

[MaxB]

Well I *555 d a driver today in Manukau. I was in my work car and a boy racer car with four yoofs in front of me ran the red on Roscmmon/Browns Road. He started in the right turn lane into Browns Road then without warning jumped left across 2 lanes to cross the light on red and into turning traffic. Cars were scattered all over the place.

At the next set of lights towards Wiri the car didn't even slow for the red, they just bowled through the lights and a tanker had to brake mid turn.

Red light number 2. Chuck in about 50 km/h over the limit between junctions.

What put me over the edge was at the Wiri Station Road intersection a bike was approaching the junction from the right and would be turning on the green. In the time it took to reach the lights our side flicked to green and the RF900 stopped in the queue. Lucky for him because I will bet big that boy racer had no intention of stopping if the lights changed.

I timed it. 4 seconds. If the bike had arrived 4 seconds earlier he would have met the car in the junction. That is why I rang *555. They said they would be out looking for him.

I guess the red light cameras would have got some more evidence regardless of whether a member of the public phoned them.