Had a dodgy ticket?

[HenryDorsetCase]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/thepress/4435218a24035.html

fascinating.

I concur entirely with His Honour, and my learned friend Mr Kipling (or Keating): no speedometer is necessary, drive to the conditions. the corollary is that enforcement of the existing offences (careless, dangerous, reckless) then become all that is required.

Discuss.*

:)




* without turning to a cop bashing thread (baiting is OK though......)

[Disco Dan]

Thats what we do best in life... find that hole and dive straight in...

[Patrick]

Ahhhh.... so a play in words on the back of the ticket has every thing to do with the fact he was speeding/illegally parked in the first place... I get it...:doh::jerry:

[SixPackBack]

Ahhhh.... so a play in words on the back of the ticket has every thing to do with the fact he was speeding/illegally parked in the first place... I get it...:doh::jerry:
Patrick the Police are just as likely to gain a conviction using under hand means. Right and wrong are neither the court nor the Police forces strong points-gaining convictions is.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Ahhhh.... so a play in words on the back of the ticket has every thing to do with the fact he was speeding/illegally parked in the first place... I get it...:doh::jerry:

Well, no.

The Judge's point was that the statute said "the person accused of the offence has 28 days to do X" but the wording on the ticket didnt reflect that, leading to confusion.

Hardly a "play in words", more a "fuckup", yes?

[idleidolidyll]

Patrick the Police are just as likely to gain a conviction using under hand means. Right and wrong are neither the court nor the Police forces strong points-gaining convictions is.

yep

i was once booked for going too slow on my motorbike.
strange thing was that i was at the BACK of a queue of cars when the cop pulled up behind me.

The asswipe cop when challenged on that point just said "your word against mine"

[Finn]

I was once booked for going too slow on my motorbike.

:baby: :lol:

[idleidolidyll]

oh look, my stalker's back

[Finn]

oh look, my stalker's back

Sniper more like it.

[idleidolidyll]

perhaps you should use live ammo instead of bb pellets then

i'm unimpressed as hell

[Finn]

perhaps you should use live ammo instead of bb pellets then

i'm unimpressed as hell

Oh it's live ammo, I'm just having trouble sighting you through all the bullshit.

[marty]

it's dickheads like kipping that have made the legislation for all types of trivial matters so tight - even though the Summary Proceedings Act states that the offence will not be nullified for 'want of form'.

[idleidolidyll]

Oh it's live ammo, I'm just having trouble sighting you through all the bullshit.

suckered again, ask yer missus; you're firing blanks

it's totally laughable

[Macstar]

I got let off a speeding ticket recently!! Just as the cop was about to begin writing it out another motorist drove past on the wrong side of a residential road speeding. The cop looked at me and handed me back my license and then took off after the other motorist. Phew!

Sometimes, just sometimes, it can go the other way.

[MaxB]

I got let off a speeding ticket recently!! Just as the cop was about to begin writing it out another motorist drove past on the wrong side of a residential road speeding. The cop looked at me and handed me back my license and then took off after the other motorist. Phew!

Sometimes, just sometimes, it can go the other way.

Miracles can happen!

[Patrick]

Patrick the Police are just as likely to gain a conviction using under hand means. Right and wrong are neither the court nor the Police forces strong points-gaining convictions is.

Sorry, but... Bullshit. If one didn't do it, why waste ya time... Plenty of fish out there... Still to lock up an innocent...


Well, no.

The Judge's point was that the statute said "the person accused of the offence has 28 days to do X" but the wording on the ticket didnt reflect that, leading to confusion.

Hardly a "play in words", more a "fuckup", yes?

Maybe... but the point was, what does it have anything to do with what is written on the back of the ticket, as to what he did on the front???


yep

i was once booked for going too slow on my motorbike.
strange thing was that i was at the BACK of a queue of cars when the cop pulled up behind me.

The asswipe cop when challenged on that point just said "your word against mine"

Arsewipe is very polite of you. That one doesn't deserve the steam off ya crap... or mine...


it's dickheads like kipping that have made the legislation for all types of trivial matters so tight - even though the Summary Proceedings Act states that the offence will not be nullified for 'want of form'.

And therein lies where it should be at, mere want of form shouldn't mean it didn't happen... in the case in question, he replied as required within the 28 days, as required... the bureau got it wrong IMO. I bet it doesn't happen again even if it is left in its current form. Just wasting taxpayer $$$ reprinting is all....

[SixPackBack]

Sorry, but... Bullshit. If one didn't do it, why waste ya time... Plenty of fish out there... Still to lock up an innocent.......

The rate and number of convictions an officer makes has some bearing on his climb up the ranks. No convictions and the officer is not doing his job, lots of convictions-lots of work. An inherent self interest is unarguable.

And it maybe bullshit for you, but as has been pointed out many times the Police force is a reflection of society and that society has some very bad people contained within it.

[ajturbo]

I got let off a speeding ticket recently!! Just as the cop was about to begin writing it out another motorist drove past on the wrong side of a residential road speeding. The cop looked at me and handed me back my license and then took off after the other motorist. Phew!

Sometimes, just sometimes, it can go the other way.

must have been worth more quota points..

[Patrick]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS]The rate and number of convictions an officer makes has some bearing on his climb up the ranks.

NOpe... most are professional students from the day they joined. Some flew up the ranks without much time out on the road at all...

[Renegade]

NOpe... most are professional students from the day they joined. Some flew up the ranks without much time out on the road at all...

yip and these are the bright sparks that justify their jobs by taking two years to issue the police with vests that are crap quality (i know of an officer who had one ripped off in a scuffle) and generally making questionable decisions that impact the front line without and real understanding of it themselves, which in turn filters down to joe blogs civillian.

[jaykay]

As you may have guessed I don't come here that often - and yes I'm John Kipping.

To those who are interested to know I appealed costs to the High Court for two speeding tickets....for a vehicle I didn't own and I wasn't driving. It took the police fifteen months to decide they had insufficient evidence - and they acted with their usual arrogance and contempt throughout - and the High Court judge agreed that the Police paperwork is wrong and the whole matter could have been sorted out months before if they had actually followed the law and got their paperwork correct.

FYI, I do not have any demerit points, I sometimes exceed the speed limit, I always drive to the conditions.

[Patrick]

As you may have guessed I don't come here that often - and yes I'm John Kipping.

To those who are interested to know I appealed costs to the High Court for two speeding tickets....for a vehicle I didn't own and I wasn't driving. It took the police fifteen months to decide they had insufficient evidence.

Just sorted out something similar for a local here. He traded in his car at a car yard, who onsold his old car to a new owner but the yard didn't change the ownership. The new owner started getting speed camera tickets but as the name hadn't been changed over by the car yard as one would expect, the registered owner was getting the notices. He wrote in, as you do, and was told to go to the courts, which he did.

The courts then advised the Police that there were insufficuent grounds to toss the matter... not the police, the courts...

He came in again, stilll pissed off and still blaming the Police until the obvious was pointed out - the courts were the problem here. Long story short, one email later it was resolved.

Still took months to resolve and I can see why he was pissed and frustrated. Just need to speak to the right people sometimes...

[Sanx]

The courts then advised the Police that there were insufficuent grounds to toss the matter... not the police, the courts...

So the Police do not have the power to withdraw charges prior to the trial? I know you're an officer and all, but I was under the impression that the Police (or at least the Crown Prosecution Service - or whatever they're called in NZ) can withdraw the charges at any point they so choose, even midway through a trial.

In the UK, I've been on the receiving end of such an incident where I appeared in court four times for the same offence* only to have the case withdrawn by the Police prosecutor at the last moment (in my opinion, because having the charges dismissed might have set a precedent).

Are you really saying that the Police can be forced to prosecute a case they don't believe they have the power to prosecute, or are you referring to the court stating there wasn't enough contrary evidence to have the case summarily dismissed?

*
1st time: didn't know what I was summoned for. Turned out to be a speed camera offence 30 months previously for which I'd been summoned by mail to an address I no longer lived at.
2nd time: pled no guilty. Prosecutor requested an adjournment to give him time to prepare the case.
3rd time: I requested an adjourment to go over the evidence I'd requested from the Police, only for them to present it to me 45 minutes prior to going into the court.
4th time: argued case. Police dropped charges.

300 miles round trip per appearance.

[Patrick]

So the Police do not have the power to withdraw charges prior to the trial? I know you're an officer and all, but I was under the impression that the Police (or at least the Crown Prosecution Service - or whatever they're called in NZ) can withdraw the charges at any point they so choose, even midway through a trial.

No trial or hearing... talking of matters handed on to fines enforcement. Non response to reminder notices, or correspondence entered into and a defended hearing is not sought, merely goes direct to fines enforcement - ie: the courts. common for infringement offence notices (speeding tickets/red light runners/no WOF etc etc).