Computer advice needed

[Deviant Esq]

Over the weekend my computer decided to stop working. I'd arrived home and tried to switch it on, and nothing happened. So I took it in and found that the power supply had given up, so I had it replaced.

Got it home, hooked it all up again, and found that it froze after about a minute of running windows. Feck. So, using the windows CD, I repaired the installation. Caused a few problems, things wouldn't run properly, and it refused to install service pack 2 again. Took it back in, they had a look at it and said that the motherboard wasn't hooked up properly, so they tidied it up and put it back together.

I then took it home, formatted the hard drive, installed XP Pro, installed service pack 2, installed the graphics card drivers (all fine so far), then installed the motherboard drivers (incl. ethernet driver) - this is what seems to have caused the problem. Now, every time I start the computer, it starts windows fine, logs in fine, bit slower than usual perhaps, but every single time, within about 30 seconds, it freezes. The mouse pointer still moves but it won't respond to any keyboard or clicking inputs. Took it back to the shop who say it may be the motherboard but they aren't sure, as testing the individual parts will cost me lots of money - money I don't have.

Um, help? :mellow:

[jim.cox]

Will it run in safemode without networking?

Will it run in safemode with networking?

Will it run in normal mode with the network disabled?

Do you have the correct (& latest) drivers?

Unfortunately when a power supply fails it can damage a motherboard...

[Deviant Esq]

Unfortunately when a power supply fails it can damage a motherboard...
I have the drivers that came with the hardware.

It ran fine with the Windows install (XP Pro) repaired, with the network running, access to the router, internet and all, but refused to reinstall SP2. It'd start to install and just sit there with the install window up, making no progress. Other things could still be done, but the install would go nowhere. So, I formatted the HDD and reinstalled Win XP Pro (legit version). Worked fine. Installed SP2. Worked fine. Installed graphics card drivers. No worries. Installed motherboard drivers. Hoo fuck, now it always freezes before I get a chance to change anything.

[CookMySock]

borrow an Ubuntu CD and boot it and see what it does. If you have the same problem then you have a hardware fault, if not then an O/S fault.

Pull everything out of the computer that you don't need and reboot.

Pull the Memory out and re-insert it.


DB

[jim.cox]

I formatted the HDD and reinstalled Win XP Pro (legit version). Worked fine. Installed SP2. Worked fine. Installed graphics card drivers. No worries. Installed motherboard drivers. Hoo fuck, now it always freezes before I get a chance to change anything.

So just which motherboard drivers did you install?

Can you get into safe mode? (hold down f8 on starting)

[Deviant Esq]

So just which motherboard drivers did you install?

Can you get into safe mode? (hold down f8 on starting)
I haven't got the computer at the moment unfortunately; the shop still has it. They're going to test the motherboard for me to see if it's got a problem. If it doesn't I'll have to go collect it as it'll cost too much to test everything. They've already tested the RAM and HDDs (a 160GB and a 500GB), which came back fine, but other than that, I don't know.

Knowing what it does at the moment though, I suspect that if I asked it to start in safe mode it would enter safe mode fine, but whether it would freeze or not? Couldn't say without trying it.

[johan]

Does the new power supply have enough power/watts to drive all your devices?

[xwhatsit]

Does the new power supply have enough power/watts to drive all your devices?

This man's onto it. If they replaced it with a shitty/low-powered/faulty power supply, it could not be giving enough juice or clean enough juice. Once it heats up a bit you can get all kinds of weird memory corruption carry-on that will cause freezes. I've seen it heaps of times.

[Deviant Esq]

Does the new power supply have enough power/watts to drive all your devices?
Yes, definitely. I've got a PCI-E 6800 GTS graphics card, a power hungry thing, so the replacement power supply is a 620W monster of a thing - it definitely has enough power to get the job done.

[PuppetMaster]

You said you can still move the mouse ?
The mouse probably wouldnt be moving if it was the board.
Dont install the board drivers, just the nic if Windows hasnt found a driver already.

[Deviant Esq]

You said you can still move the mouse ?
The mouse probably wouldnt be moving if it was the board.
Dont install the board drivers, just the nic if Windows hasnt found a driver already.
Yeah, I can still move the mouse when it freezes, it just won't respond to any keyboard inputs (no response from ctrl+alt+del) or any mouse clicks. I don't really want to have to avoid installing the drivers, because if they're causing it to freeze there's something not right hardware wise, it's been fine the last three years on the same drivers. What's this 'nic' you're talking about?

[CookMySock]

nic = Network Interface Card. Its the Ethernet port - if you aren't using it, you can safely not install the drivers for it.

DB

[Waxxa]

Sounds to me that the problem is the Hard Drive, even though you have tried reformating the HD it looks like the actual components, namely the acctuator arm, has had it. Can you strip out a friends HD, connect it to yours and see how your PC operates then. Worth a try and if thats your problem HDs are pretty cheap right now.

[Spuds1234]

If you want DE, I can pop around and disable your onboard NIC and pop in a pci NIC.

If your computer doesnt crash, problem solved, and you can consider us even on that cheese burger I owe you.

If it doesnt work, I'll take my NIC back and hook you up with a cheese burger one day when I have money.

[Deviant Esq]

nic = Network Interface Card. Its the Ethernet port - if you aren't using it, you can safely not install the drivers for it.
Ah right. The trouble is that I am using it - it's my internet access. Funny thing is that it was working alright when I'd repaired the Win XP Pro installation (without SP2), I had internet access (and could see the router), but I hadn't reinstalled the drivers at that stage.


Sounds to me that the problem is the Hard Drive
The HDD has already been tested and has come up fine, if the tech's word is anything to go by, naturally.


If you want DE, I can pop around and disable your onboard NIC and pop in a pci NIC.
Thanks for the offer Spuds. We'll see what the shop comes back with in terms of the test results on the motherboard - it's being tested now. If they can't find anything wrong with it I'm not paying them any extra to start testing individual bits... I just can't afford it. Hopefully that problem will be rectified soon too ;)

[CookMySock]

Sounds to me that the problem is the Hard Drive, even though you have tried reformating the HD it looks like the actual components, namely the acctuator arm, has had itIf it was, then I highly doubt the BIOS would even recognise the drive, let alone boot it.

Anyway, my old man used to say to me "once you have tried the possible, then try the impossible."

DB

[xwhatsit]

Ah, didn't see the bit about the mouse.

memtest86+ boot disk?

[jrandom]

It really does smell to me like a driver hanging the kernel due to someone letting the magic smoke out of one of your mobo peripherals.

But, then, I'm just a programmer, I know very little about actual matters of computer maintenance, etc...

<img src="http://i26.tinypic.com/j76qtx.jpg"/>

[xwhatsit]

It really does smell to me like a driver hanging the kernel due to someone letting the magic smoke out of one of your mobo peripherals.

Why would that happen? I thought NT-series ran a microkernel; ergo, hardware drivers in userspace? Or is the marketing bullshit... just that?

[jrandom]

Why would that happen? I thought NT-series ran a microkernel; ergo, hardware drivers in userspace?

Roffle!

Not even Vista does that.

[xwhatsit]

Ah. Google tells me NT runs a `hybrid kernel'. Mostly a microkernel but with drivers and other shit running in kernel space. One of those real-world compromises I suppose.

OK then, I'll pop my head back in here when Minix is the world's most popular operating system then :lol:

[CookMySock]

cough, boot an Ubuntu CD and ask dmesg.

DB

[PuppetMaster]

Its not the HD, or the RAM. If it was, Windows would most likely blue screen, or like Dangerous said, not boot at all.

I reckon the updated chipset your installing has an issue with some piece of hardware connected to the board or another driver, or maybe isnt for the right chipset.
Personally, I either wouldnt bother installing the later chipset, or find an even later one on the net if there is one.

DL this little app to see what chipset you have, and go from there.

http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php

[Waxxa]

The Bios has nothing to do with the actual operation of the HD. You would see the Bios run through and should recognise the HD regardless, whether the HD operates or not.

Are you getting the XP splash screen? Then is it 'freezing' then looping back around to the splash screen again? Or are able to get to a desktop?

[Deviant Esq]

Are you getting the XP splash screen? Then is it 'freezing' then looping back around to the splash screen again? Or are able to get to a desktop?
It starts and logs on to Win XP as per usual, so you get to the desktop as per usual. You might say, click start, then internet, or something else like open My Documents, which will take longer than usual but work, then it'll freeze shortly afterwards and will not unfreeze unless you press reset. While it's frozen it won't respond to keyboard inputs or mouse clicks, but I can still move the pointer.

[scracha]

I feel for you as you're spending good money and whoever has your PC is yanking your chain. Nobody who's charging by the hour would "test a motherboard"...the labour is worth more than the mobo. Generally if a motherboard appears farked* then I tell peeps it's an uneconomical repair unless they can reinstall one themselves. By the time you in new mobo (nobody would replace a farked mobo thats outside its warranty with the same "old" model) and possibly install a new CPU and RAM to go with it you're talking a fair amount of dollars. Add the time to reinstall XP, drivers and possibly migrate user data and reinstall applications and you're normally cheaper buying a new base unit.

The guys who mentioned knoppix or ubuntu live CD's with memtest32 know what they're talking about. The best way to test an XP system is with UBCD for Windows CD as it basically loads windows and drivers from a CD. If this works then generally your hardware is OK.

I've seen Windoze running for hours on end with underpowered PSU's or farked ram. Weird stuff like pushing the eject button on the DVD drive can then send the PSU over the edge or starting up the wrong app can make dodgy ram rear its ugly head and cause the BSOD.

If it is your mobo's built in ethernet card then just disable it in the bios and shove in a <$10 replacement.

*
1)Try knoppix live or ubuntu CD, if it works try UBCD4Win
2)Replace RAM (or run memtest32, the former is quicker if you have some spare lying around) - Retry live CD
3)Unplug all the drives and any cards not necessary - If onboard video card not used then replace - Retry live CD
If it's still not giving joy at this stage then you're leaning towards the "motherboard is farked" stage.
4) Plug cards and drives in one at a time until it farks out again
Total time about 30 minutes

Just my tuppenceworth

[Drunken Monkey]

sounds like a faulty IDE fan. reinstall office from your original floppy disks.

[scracha]

sounds like a faulty IDE fan. reinstall office from your original floppy disks.

Too many dilithium crystals captain. The PSU canna take it, she's gonna blow.

[Waxxa]

OK...so you can boot-up to the desktop but when you want to do 'something' it freezes.....mmmm.

Have you looked in Task Manager, under processes tab, your 'System Idle Process' should be in the mid to high 90% range. If you see a process other than this one taking up a huge portion of the system resources, end it.

Have you also keeped your anti-virus licence up to date and installed the latest updates? A number of viruses are designed to take up the PCs system resources (memory in particular) thereby you are unable to do any action on a program for a long period of time, if at all.

To me personally its not your mobo or devices connected to it cause you are getting graphics, booting up to a desktop alright (so finding your boot files OK, like its not looping, which kind of rules out my HD theory).

Slight chance it could be RAM, but your not getting beep codes (are you?) its loading graphics OK and the OS, but seems like something is hogging all the memory preventing anything else happening once you have booted up.

Check Task Manager, possibly get a better anti-virus program (if you dont already have one) and give the PC a scan for trojans and the like. Post up your progression.

[Deviant Esq]

I feel for you as you're spending good money and whoever has your PC is yanking your chain. Nobody who's charging by the hour would "test a motherboard"...

The guys who mentioned knoppix or ubuntu live CD's with memtest32 know what they're talking about..

*
1)Try knoppix live or ubuntu CD, if it works try UBCD4Win
2)Replace RAM (or run memtest32, the former is quicker if you have some spare lying around) - Retry live CD
3)Unplug all the drives and any cards not necessary - If onboard video card not used then replace - Retry live CD
If it's still not giving joy at this stage then you're leaning towards the "motherboard is farked" stage.
4) Plug cards and drives in one at a time until it farks out again
Total time about 30 minutes
*Sigh* I really can't afford these f**ks to be charging me by the hour (half hour actually). So if they're really racking up as much time as they seem to be, I'm not interested in paying for it. I've just talked to them on the phone and they reassured me they were taking so long because they'd only just started looking at it. Um, is that any better..? Might be cheaper, but... :mellow:

Sounds like something I ought to try, only, I really don't know enough about these things to be able to troubleshoot around these pointers and figure out what's going wrong. No doubt there are people around who do know about this kind of stuff and can possibly help in that regard... but it appears the people testing my motherboard might not be then.


OK...so you can boot-up to the desktop but when you want to do 'something' it freezes.....mmmm.
Pretty much precisely it, yes.


Have you looked in Task Manager, under processes tab...
Cannot get into the Task Manager in time after Windows has started; it usually freezes up too quickly.


A number of viruses are designed to take up the PCs system resources (memory in particular)...
The HDDs have both been formatted before Windows XP and SP2 have been installed. Nothing else has been in contact with the computer other than install files from legitimate CDs. There isn't a virus on the computer.


but seems like something is hogging all the memory preventing anything else happening once you have booted up.
There isn't any activity happening on the system working indicator light, nor any HDD / CPU noises happening. The system locks and is doing nothing. Due to my having formatted the HDD and only just reinstalled Windoze when this started happening, I firmly believe it's hardware related. How? Pass.


Check Task Manager, possibly get a better anti-virus program (if you dont already have one) and give the PC a scan for trojans and the like. Post up your progression.
Cannot do, as described above. As I've said, I very much doubt it's software related.

[Deviant Esq]

Have just found out from the shop that it's the motherboard gone bye bye. Unfortunately, it's a socket-939 board, which isn't made any more... so I need a new motherboard, new CPU, and new RAM. My HDDs are both SATA so they're fine, and my graphics card is PCI-E, so that's fine too. Anyway, they quoted me about $350 for a new board and processor (4200+ AMD dual core, 64bit), 2GB of RAM, and all installed in my case with my existing bits. Thoughts? Well, apart from "fuck, that sucks :mellow:" - I'm already thinking that!

[CookMySock]

can anyone do this guy a better price ? checking around my contacts now..

DB

[Deviant Esq]

can anyone do this guy a better price ? checking around my contacts now..
Thanks for the effort DB, appreciate it, but I'm just going to take it on the chin and get it done. At least with the shop installing all the hardware I know it'll be done properly (a friend installed it last time and badly messed it up), and I'll have the paper trail to go back to them if something else happens. Sure, it's only an AMD processor (4200+ dual core 64bit), but the cheapest Intel options were quite a lot more expensive and I can't afford them. Plus they've already got all the bits and have been good - they waived the diagnosis cost of finding that the motherboard was dead (thank goodness for that). I'm putting more RAM in it while they're there, will have 2GB now :)

On an entirely unrelated matter... :whistle: ... I'll now have an AMD 3200+ 64bit CPU (to fit a socket-939 motherboard), and 2x 512MB sticks of DDR RAM for sale, if someone's interested.

[CookMySock]

I'm just going to take it on the chin and get it done. At least with the shop installing all the hardware I know it'll be done properlyYer I know wot ur saying dood. At least you are on the road to recovery..

cheers,
DB

[Spuds1234]

On an entirely unrelated matter... :whistle: ... I'll now have an AMD 3200+ 64bit CPU (to fit a socket-939 motherboard), and 2x 512MB sticks of DDR RAM for sale, if someone's interested.

Dibbs on ram if its pc3200/ddr400 and at a competitive price.

[scracha]

Dibbs on ram if its pc3200/ddr400 and at a competitive price.

You'll struggle flogging CPU, they hardly ever @#$ck up. Go for the Core 2 Duo, a much better processor (I'm not tryign to start an AMDvs Intel war...I like AMD) .

DDR400ram... a 512 stick is about 34 bucks brand new so you should get 25 each.

[Spuds1234]

I can get you one of these for around $60

GA-K8NSC-939

Its second hand of course but should work fine with your current gear.

If it was me, I'd buy a cheap motherboard and get the shop to install all your old parts for you.

[Deviant Esq]

Go for the Core 2 Duo, a much better processor.
I would if the price wasn't an issue - but it is. The cost of the AMD processor is much more affordable, and I really can't afford to spend much more than they quoted me. So, while I'd quite like a Core 2 Duo... it'll be the AMD 4200+ 64bit dual core, at least for the mean time. It's still quite enough for my needs :yes:


Dibbs on ram if its pc3200/ddr400 and at a competitive price.
No problem man, dibs on the RAM are yours. I'll have to check what it is when I get it back (hopefully Monday?), but I'm fairly sure it's DDR400.


I can get you one of these for around $60

GA-K8NSC-939

Its second hand of course but should work fine with your current gear.

If it was me, I'd buy a cheap motherboard and get the shop to install all your old parts for you.
The thought has crossed my mind. But, as I mentioned a couple of posts up, I'm going to take it on the chin and get the new stuff. At least then it's supported by the manufacturer's warranty, and installed by the shop, there'll be a warranty on their work as well. Sure, it costs me a bit more dosh, but I get a much better processor and RAM, as well as the warranty.

Maybe you should get the board yourself, so you can use my 3200+ CPU? Naturally it'll be at a good price. :)

[Spuds1234]

I would, but it wouldnt be much of an upgrade. If I was using a much lesser computer I would jump at the oppunity.

[Deviant Esq]

*Dredge*

First, let me begin with fuckfuckfuckFUCK!!! Right, now that I've got that out of my system... this fucking thing still isn't right. I've spent hundreds which really could have gone to a new and problem free PC, but NO, can't have THAT say the powers that be...

Anyway, I've now got a new motherboard (Gigabyte GA-M56S-S3, nVidia 560 chipset, AM2 board), along with a new CPU and RAM. Got it home last night, formatted the HDD and started with a fresh install of Win XP Pro (legitimate copy). Nothing but fucking trouble. Installed SP2. Installed the mobo drivers and graphics card drivers.

Firstly, the computer doesn't think any of the USB ports are USB 2.0, rather, that they're all 1.1. SP2 is supposed to take care of this, so, what the flying fuck. But that's not all. I've got a flash card reader that sits in the front of my case in a 3.5" bay. The whole time Windoze is running, this is dropping off and coming back on constantly. Windoze seems always trying to install the software for this, and indeed any other USB volume I try to plug in, and so other programs freeze quite regularly (causing the This program is not responding dialog to appear). I've tried visiting the Gigabyte website, downloaded the chipset drivers for the board, thinking they might be different from those on the CD, and installed them, to no avail, it still doesn't bloody work!

I'm seriously out of patience. It's been a good couple of weeks, it's been back and forth from the shop at least 4 times and several hundred dollars has been thrown at it, but they still can't get the fucking thing right! But it had better bloody work when I've gone to all this expense to get a new board, CPU, and RAM, since I can't afford to buy a whole new computer and waste all this money spent on new bits which should be perfectly serviceable.

:weep:

[homer]

Does the new power supply have enough power/watts to drive all your devices?

thats my first thought
its the part that got changed
its probably a light weight thing thats only got 200 watts of power to offer
if its a heavy weighty trans itll be most likely something else

[Deviant Esq]

its probably a light weight thing thats only got 200 watts of power to offer
It's a 620W power supply, so yep, it's got enough power to run everything else.

[CookMySock]

cough, a-HEM, download an Ubuntu CD, boot it, and ask dmesg. All will be revealed.

DB

[Deviant Esq]

cough, a-HEM, download an Ubuntu CD, boot it, and ask dmesg. All will be revealed.

DB
dmesg eh...

Alright. If the shop comes back to me and says there's nothing wrong with it (yeah, bullshit), which I expect they will, I'll give that a crack.

[Strider]

Dont sound like the clowns at the shop know what they are Frigin doing, except taking your money and LOL all the way to the bank. In future you better of taking your busness else where.

[CookMySock]

join the KB IRC chat channel more online help. Someone is usually around to help in real-time. Reply here if you are not sure how to do this.

We'll get you sorted.

DB

[Deviant Esq]

join the KB IRC chat channel more online help. Someone is usually around to help in real-time. Reply here if you are not sure how to do this.

We'll get you sorted.
That'd be a good plan - only, I'm at work at the moment and while I get away with browsing KB I probably wouldn't get away with chatting on IRC! Maybe tonight. Hoping to hear back from the shop sometime today, if not, I'll be without my comp for the long weekend. Bah! :angry2:

[Deviant Esq]

The shop now reckons that my USB flash card reader is faulty. Now I'm going to cry bullshit on this one. I have a strong feeling that if they tried it in another PC it would be fine. They say without it in there the USB works fine, thinks it's 2.0, and doesn't go in and out all the time. We shall see.

[Spuds1234]

I reckon its the ram, but the usb card reader could have gone when your PSU went. Its been known to happen when a psu goes.

You got lucky. Normally it can take HDDs Graphics cards, ram, hell anything attached to it in one form or another.

[CookMySock]

The shop now reckons that my USB flash card reader is faulty.oh those are cheap. one on tm for a few bux for sure. anyway dmesg will cry foul and spit errors for miles if it is faulty.

Going to tga for a beer tonight, so will be back around 9pm hopefully.

DB

[pete376403]

You've got new board, new processor, new ram, new power supply and formatted the disks. Apart from the video card, there's not that much of the original PC left is there? Leave out everything it doesn't need. Once it's stable in that condition, start adding the extras, one at a time.

[Deviant Esq]

I've got it back now, with the faulty USB card reader still in the case but unplugged, and it seems, at this point at least, to be working well. So, my fingers are crossed. I'm a bit disillusioned though... very much considering a switch to Linux or Ubuntu because of the constant issues Windows always has.

I actually got some news today that's so good it mitigates the crap I've been dealing with with the computer, so that's something at least.

Thanks for all your ideas and assistance though, owe a couple of you guys a beer next time I'm up norf. Planning on a trip next summer actually, so keep in touch. ;)