Career in IT? Never too late?

[gav]

If hypothetically, someone was in their mid 40's and decided bollocks to this, I'd like to give IT a crack as a career, what would someones best options be? Hypothetically, of course .... :innocent:

If you like to PM me I could pass this info on, hypothetically ...... :confused:

If "they" did a course, would they tend to be overlooked for younger graduates come time when they were chasing a new position? How long and what would it cost to get some sort of qualification to suit?

Thanks!

[James Deuce]

Don't do it. Get a job working in a gas station. If you want to be humiliated, over worked, under paid, treated like a retard and abused by colleagues, employers, and clients alike the IT is for you.

[bobsmith]

What area of IT are you interested in? What's your previous experience? How "academic" are you?

[YellowDog]

Don't do it. Get a job working in a gas station. If you want to be humiliated, over worked, under paid, treated like a retard and abused by colleagues, employers, and clients alike the IT is for you.
Hey, some of us like all that good kinky stuff!

But IT is a huge field. Tinkering with PCs and laying cables is IT as well as the more complex development project work.

Anyone can be in IT. The older you are the better generally however that is assuming OLD = EXPERIENCED. It can be tough for a newby to get a junior job to enable them to get experience. I guess it depends on how keen the person is and also whether they have an aptitude for the subject.

Microsoft is by far the easiest route and you can get a globally recognised qualification by ticking a few boxes.

Tell them to buy a book on MS-Visual Studio to see if it is as interesting as they thought it might be And wish them the best of luck from me :-)

[James Deuce]

It's shit. It's digging electronic ditches. Most clients see no value in what you do because they have a nephew/son/daughter/niece who is really good on a Wii and can connect to the Internet from home. Doesn't matter if it's a Ma & Pa PC shop or a corporate IT company providing service in the order of multi million dollar contracts, you're constantly on the back foot and every aspect of your performance critiqued because everybody who uses a PC thinks they are an Infrastructure/Database/Network expert and IT people get paid far too much for what they do.

Don't do it gav. It sucks. Going into IT 22 years ago seemed to hold the promise of an interesting well paid future, but the reality is everyone I deal with thinks I'm a socially retarded Dilbert cartoon refugee. Last night I had to get up at 3:30am to extend a Logical RAID partition. My boss just rang to ask where I am.

If you want to be overworked and experience extreme levels of disrespect then go into IT. You'll love it.

[avgas]

If "they" did a course, would they tend to be overlooked for younger graduates come time when they were chasing a new position?
In NZ? what are you kidding - employers dont look at qualifications here mater - they see how old you are, then make that your percentage of being hired. At 40% you could easily get hired for an IT position, even without qualification.
Something about bullshit work experience and your in.
[Spoken Bitterly]
As if HR give a damn if your qualified - only if your old enough (45 seems to be a peak of old enough)

[jrandom]

Like Jim2 says, working in 'IT' can be pretty crap.

Which is why I make a living as a computer programmer instead, writing software for companies that sell software products.

I've always enjoyed it, too, but the standard way of getting into that profession is to do a three-year BSc majoring in computer science, which you might not have the inclination to bash your way through at this stage.

[vifferman]

But IT is a huge field.
Yup.
I've been a Systems Mangler (hardware and software); support services supervisor (installing s/w and training users, writing manuals, running a users group); a contract programmer/support person; a documenter/installer/tester/trainer, and now (for the last 8 or 9 years) a technical writer (user manuals :crazy: :yawn:) / professional KB contributor.

[CookMySock]

if you live in a little town, and no one is doing it, then sure - you can fix their peecee's and hook up their networx, and maybe earn 20 g a year doing it.

Too many people are doing it now.

Unless you can find a niche somewhere.. perhaps using some non-IT skills you already have. What else can you do ?

DB

[Drunken Monkey]

What Jim2 says is simultaneously a genuine truth and a complete load of bollocks. It's hard to explain. If you can understand what I'm trying to say, you might have a chance, otherwise best you stay away for the sake of your own sanity. And health.

[Pex Adams]

Don't do it. Get a job working in a gas station. If you want to be humiliated, over worked, under paid, treated like a retard and abused by colleagues, employers, and clients alike the IT is for you.

Is this another Mod bashing tread:girlfight::girlfight::girlfight:

[marioc]

I work for a large Govt IT dept ,I love my job and if you prove you are sharp,the sky is the limit.
Dont know about the corporate environment though I suspect that is quite different.
Good IT people are in huge demand right now especially in the areas of network/security which is what I do.
If you have an interest in it go for it!

[Usarka]

Have a read of Nicholas Carr's book/article...... generated plenty of debate around the future of IT....

[James Deuce]

I work for a large Govt IT dept ,I love my job and if you prove you are sharp,the sky is the limit.
Dont know about the corporate environment though I suspect that is quite different.
Good IT people are in huge demand right now.
If you have an interest in it go for it!

You're 12 aren't you? Let me know when the reality hits and I'll help you get through it. Lots of riding works,

[Krayy]

OTOH, I get paid a shedload of cash for doing my hobby. The only thing that stuffs it up is the level of responsibility (computers crash, planes don't fly) and the continual tap on the shoulder with another "high priority job".

Experience does count for a lot though (23 years in my case).

In truth if you do want to get into the area, if you have people management skills, try for a supervisory position that has little technical knowledge requirement. To most IT professionals less than 30, a suit is something you spill drinks on at a wedding (and optionally throw up). Then learn by osmosis.

Unfortunately, you'll need to go corporate to do this, in which case see Jims rant above (he should have remained a chef - he swears enough for it).

[vifferman]

One of the troubles with IT (or mebbe it's a plus, if you like that sort of thing) is that things are changing so fast, you have to work very hard to keep current with things. That's why I dropped taking care of the hardware and software - it was just too hard keeping up with things, on top of my other responsibilities (running a lab, recruitment, looking after consumables, rewriting the payroll program, etc etc.)
I should've just stuck with being a manager - I was good at that, and it paid more in real terms than I'm getting now, 14 years later. And I'm so fucking bored! :yawn:

[TerminalAddict]

You're 12 aren't you? Let me know when the reality hits and I'll help you get through it. Lots of riding works,

poor jim2 ... beaten up in yer old age eh? :)

On a personal note: I agree entirely with jim2
I absolutely hate getting woken up by network outages from TCL and Telecom, quickly followed by a call from the boss who often says "can you just call them, and tell them to fix it"

[James Deuce]

Managed change is good. Unmanaged change is the norm as it allows Corporate IT companies to pressure clients into forking over money so they can develop products and procedures they can sell to other companies.

I think overall, the lack of ethical self control in the Corporate IT world is the thing that most repulses me.

[marioc]

You're 12 aren't you? Let me know when the reality hits and I'll help you get through it. Lots of riding works,


No not 12,33 actually.
After 10 years in the industry I think reality hit me a long time ago.

[James Deuce]

poor jim2 ... beaten up in yer old age eh? :)

On a personal note: I agree entirely with jim2
I absolutely hate getting woken up by network outages from TCL and Telecom, quickly followed by a call from the boss who often says "can you just call them, and tell them to fix it"

Gaaaaah! Exactly! It takes two hours to get someone at TCL to admit that there is a problem. The pointy hairded never seems to understand that you can't magically make a 3rd party do their job.

[James Deuce]

No not 12,33 actually.
After 10 years in the industry I think reality hit me a long time ago.

I still enjoyed my job at 33 as well. There will come a time.

[vifferman]

I wonder if it's time for me to start being a geologist... :confused:

[Gaz]

If hypothetically, someone was in their mid 40's and decided bollocks to this, I'd like to give IT a crack as a career, what would someones best options be? Hypothetically, of course .... :innocent:

If you like to PM me I could pass this info on, hypothetically ...... :confused:

If "they" did a course, would they tend to be overlooked for younger graduates come time when they were chasing a new position? How long and what would it cost to get some sort of qualification to suit?

Thanks!
I'm picking, when you say IT you mean 'something with computers' - I changed careers about 7 years ago - I still have no 'IT' quals - but I do have skills which I applied to the new 'job' The biggest issue is the change / doubt PLUS the other people here telling you what a shitty deal it is. (Don't underestimate how damaging this is)

I work from home, make really good money. I have time to ride in the weekends - and if i want, I can go for a quick (1-2) ride during the day. My advice is to look at your existing skillset, figure out how they'd apply to your new hypothetical career and Go for it. If you think this lot are pissing on your dream, wait til you've made up your mind -- EVERYONE and Everything you look at will add doubt.

[Joni]

Gav, I think you can see there is the good side and the bad side of IT... but is that not how life is?

IT has always treated me well, and I have enjoyed my career when involved in it.

Chch is different to Welli/Auckland... you need to do your homework, talk to someone who knows the industry in the South Island... and find out what potential there is for you. Once you know what areas you can crack and what is needed to get there, then you can decide if you really want to go down that path.

[James Deuce]

FFS, so you're not allowed to convey your opinion when someone asks and you have to be all rollicking and supportive. I've worked in a variety of roles for a variety of organisations from monkey to manager and back again. Self employed also. The single biggest thread running through the contacts (1000s of people) I've made in the industry is the huge number of good people wanting to get out of IT, but trapped by circumstance.

Good on you if you are one of the minority that have found a niche that works for you.

The way most people try to break into IT these days seems to be through a service desk/call centre type role. Don't do it. Once you get one of those jobs you aren't going anywhere.

Study, gain a qualification, stay self employed (read: contract work) and enter at the level you want to.

[Devil]

The single biggest thread running through the contacts (1000s of people) I've made in the industry is the huge number of good people wanting to get out of IT, but trapped by circumstance.


Definately. If it wasn't for the mortgage... i'd actually be doing something I enjoy.

Fuck IT, right in the ear.

If you've already got management experience, do what someone else suggested and try and jump in on a non-technical level where you're actually telling people what to do, because it forking sucks on the other end of it.

[PuppetMaster]

Definately. If it wasn't for the mortgage... i'd actually be doing something I enjoy.


Same here, but the majority of people are probably in the same boat.

[Drunken Monkey]

... The single biggest thread running through the contacts (1000s of people) I've made in the industry is the huge number of good people wanting to get out of IT, but trapped by circumstance.
...

Amen to that brother.

Cabbage farming doesn't pay enough to finance my expensive tastes though...

[Hoon]

The IT industry is pretty competitive especially at the entry level. You are not the only person to think "hey this interweb thing is pretty easy" and there are a lot of people fooled by the "Get your A+, MCP certification and waltz straight into a $60K job" speil.

In reality you may struggle to get your first job which might be donkey work like changing backup tapes or answering phones on a helpdesk. From there you may progress to desktop support, server admin, project implementation, project design and so on.

You could go the network engineer route which is more of a niche and but means cisco CCNA as a minimum qual.

Or Software developer which really needs a degree. Even then you might start as a software tester for the first couple years.

Theres also web design (and Graphics) or database management.

As for your age this may count against you. Not only will you be working with kids that know more than you, as you get older you also lose that "keen interest" factor and its harder to keep up. When I was younger I couldn't wait to get home to rebuild my home network and try out the lastest beta of SBS server to see all the new features I'd been reading about for the last year. These days its like "hey that DVD case will come in handy, now whats on TV".

But its never too late. My only advice would be to spend the extra time getting more quals. MCSE as a minimum and even CCNA to put you above the rest of the entry level pack. No need to do courses, just study online cram brain dumps and just pay to sit the exams. Its just a piece of paper after all.

[magicfairy]

I "retrained" from being a nurse to IT in my mid 30s. Now been in IT for 15 years. I work at a training company teaching "systems" - Microsoft Operating systems, Exchange and Citrix.I also look after our own network.
I have seen many many students over the years, working in lots of different areas with different skill sets. From helpdesk to senior consultants.

Certainly financially retraining was a good move, I have earned a lot of money over the years. But IT as gotten a lot more complex in the past few years, you can no longer be good at everything.

For someone starting out I'd recommend getting some formal qualifiations, maybe doing a 6 month or 1 year course, trying to get A+ Network+ and/or some experience with Microsoft products and networking.
If you can get your foot in the door in some sort of "helpdesk role" for a decent sized company, then if you are any good at your job you can progress to more senior roles quite quickly.
Big money can be earned but generally you start on lower wages and move up. Learning as you go.
IMHO being highly technical is not as important as having good people skills, common sense and a strong work ethic when it comes to doing well. Skills can be gained with experience and practice.
However being a bit older will probably count against you getting that first job, so try and get work experience and prove your practical skills. That will also help you work out which areas of IT you like and don't like. Some people like programming / software development, others like looking after systems. Some like the people side of things - helpdesk, projects, teaching.

One thing to be aware of, some IT roles require work to be done "out of hours" (upgrades, repairs, new systems) and many companies don't pay overtime - they say it is "built in to your salary". Which can mean long hours for little reward.

Personally I am getting to the stage where I am thinking about what I'd like to do OTHER than IT, but it has been an excellent career, well paid, enjoyable, interesting.

[magicfairy]

But its never too late. My only advice would be to spend the extra time getting more quals. MCSE as a minimum and even CCNA to put you above the rest of the entry level pack. No need to do courses, just study online cram brain dumps and just pay to sit the exams. Its just a piece of paper after all.

MCSE qualifications (and MCSA) no longer exist in the server 2008 track. It is now MCTS (Techology specialist) and MCITP (IT Professional) in various specialist tracks. Messaging, Vista, Server 08...Go for these, 1 exam per MCTS qual.

Also most good employers who can give you good experience are wary of people with no experience but lots of pieces of paper and will want to see evidence of real world skills. Because MCSE used to be so easy on NT4.
No one is going to let you near servers, routers with no experience.

[Ixion]

I "got into" IT before it was IT. And before qualifications existed.

By and large it's a pretty good life. I get paid (a pittance, I'm just a poor old man, but it keeps me in week old mouldy bread crusts) to more or less listen to one set of people telling me lies, then listen to another set of people telling me that set A are lying and then listen to set B tell me more lies. Then go back to set A and tell them what set B said. And vice versa. And then when they're all lied out I let C know to put in a bid, cos he's honest and doesn't need to lie.

That, and surf the net. And, occasionally freak out uber max and frantically fix stuff. Like war, 90% boredom, 10% sheer terror. But you do gain fascinating insights into the boundless stupidity of most people.

You do need to like finding that everything you know is irrelevant, every year. You need to be a quick learner and have a pretty flexible mind.

But it does depend what you mean by "IT". The term is now like "engineering", it covers a vast multitude .

I've not found age to be a handicap. Though there is probably a correlation as someone else noted that assumes age=experience.. The Sid Dabsters are pretty much in demand. Actually , a visit to the character gallery at Ufie (http://www.userfriendly.org/cartoons/gallery.html)might be a good idea - they pretty much cover the IT spectrum, pick which one suits you.

Oh, and whatever you do, a fascination with meaningless and incomprehensible error codes is a BIG help

EDIT: Oh, yeah, and a bottomless capacity for caffeine , and a willingness to sometimes work 48 hours at a stretch are essentials.

[Dave-]

if some of the 40 year old customers I've met in retail told me they were going into IT I'd be very worried.

"oh so the cpu [pointing at the tower] doesnt come with the screen? [pointing at the monitor]"

"i need a ubs cable for my h and p printer"

or my personal favourite, the 40 year old customer with early alzheimers'

"i need a thing....that...is a printer...and makes...copies.....and....ah....", "you want a printer copier scanner?", "what? ahh yeah....do you have those?", "there's one sitting on the shelf less than 2ft from your head"

[Ixion]

..
No one is going to let you near servers, routers with no experience.

And once you have the experience, no way are you going to want to go near them!. Vicious brutes.

[ManDownUnder]

Yeah well....

IT is great! Ex DBA, Ex Sys Admin, no related formal quals to my name (BSc etc... I do have a business degree and 4 years time in the field as well as an ok brain working with this stuff).

Be prepared to get your quals, then serve your time as an apprentice... it took me 8 years to really get up to speed with most of what's going around around me. I crossed to the dark side (Sales) and with the combo of experience, business training, brains, sparkling personality and some goood fortune I do quite nicely thanks all the same.

Each to their own, but if you like fixing stuff then IT's not a bad place to be. I'd liken it to being a doctor. Do your general studies, then if you want to carry on to a specialist field the investment is needed but returns are pretty good.

[RantyDave]

If hypothetically, someone was in their mid 40's and decided bollocks to this, I'd like to give IT a crack as a career, what would someones best options be?
Try to get into project management. It's the second best paid branch of the industry (first being the evil mill owner) and you don't need to know stuff all about technology because the army of geeks you're supposed to be managing will not stop telling you what you need to know.

Dave

[RantyDave]

Microsoft is by far the easiest route and you can get a globally recognised qualification by ticking a few boxes.
Being just one of the reasons the remainder of the IT industry detests all this Microsoft crap.

OTOH, many hundreds of thousands of people are working really really hard to have it all be irrelevant within ten years. Hurrah! But in all likelihood the vast armada of cup-holder-fixers and their assorted pointy haired bosses will continue to persuade senior management that another $5M "upgrade" to whatever nightmare Redmond have unleashed upon us this time is a good idea because it means they get to keep their jobs. Booo!

Oh, and there is no progress. Do not look for progress in the IT industry.

Dave

[jrandom]

Actually, I really just wanted to be a lumberjack.

[James Deuce]

It's the buttered scones for teas, isn't it?

[bungbung]

More the acceptance in the community, the appreciation of diversity.
Not much of that in IT

[hdus001]

Lots of good advice there - Bear in mind that to do well in an IT job you have to be very skilled at what you do and constantly learning as well. Theres no such thing as an "IT expert"..its too vague a term and too vast a field for anyone to be called an expert in IT.
Chances of success in this field depends on your ability to learn and to keep up with change.
I also think that age (without the experience) *may* put one at a disadvantage - just because you'd have to keep up with young just-out-of-school geeks (and overseas geeks) who are extremely sharp and ultra eager to experiment and learn.

[James Deuce]

I also think that age (without the experience) *may* put one at a disadvantage - just because you'd have to keep up with young just-out-of-school geeks (and overseas geeks) who are extremely sharp and ultra eager to experiment and learn.

Age and experience will triumph over youth and a temporary skill advantage every time.

[Tank]

I sat back and gave this one a bit of thought.

As many have said stating something like "working in IT" is like saying working "with Bikes" you may sell them, repair them, design them, or use one to deliver parcels - there is a huge range and variety of careers available.

Im kind of a "been there - done that" kind of guy. I started out at the bottom and am currently a CIO (Chief Information Officer) international company. I do ok for $, and have a lot of challenge and professional satisfaction in my role. I love it.

The general "entry level" IT is basic "break - fix" jobs. This is generally the kind of role that people get their stereotypes of IT professionals from. This is not something I would recommend starting at 40. You wont get hired by corporates as they require a larger skill base and experience - so you end up being hired by two-bit operations paid sweet FA.

Development, project management, etc etc are options that ARE available - but there is a lot of hard work, effort to put in and experience to be gained before you get far in either. BOTH require a natural aptitude for that kind of work.

My main question is - what are the kind of things you enjoying doing? Then look at the options (in and out of IT) that fit with that.

If you say "computers ARE my hobby" - then forget IT as a career - reality is substantially different from playing.

Another thing to think about is that if you are changing career you generally start at the bottom again - and it takes time to work your way up (and its getting harder) - this means you probably have to take a drop in wages whilst you learn new skills and gain experience - this puts a strain on families and the "being the junior" when you are 40 can be hard personally.



-Tank

[avgas]

You're 12 aren't you? Let me know when the reality hits and I'll help you get through it. Lots of riding works,
Haha brilliant - your awesome.
Couldn't have said it better myself. Good thing im not a professional motorbike mechanic - cos if i did that for a living and hated my job what would i have left to keep me alive lol

[rachprice]

Well not too sure on IT but going into any type of training in middle age can be very successful. You have life experience that all the kids straight out of school wont have for the next 20 years (which is invaluable) you cant teach it!
Good luck for whatever you choose to do, my advice is if you aren't happy in your job definitely get out! Even if it isn't IT?

[avgas]

Age and experience
Often assumed combined - but morons (of all ages) keep making my job harder......and im more lenient with the younger ones. As i hope the older ones are with me.
What pisses me off is the mentality of some who think cos they have something in a CV they think their shit dont stink. Whether its a degree, or on the flip side of the coin 20+ years experience.
One thing i have picked up is if your not smart without your CV, the reality is you don't know shit. Surprising how many CV's i've seen that show and IQ of 150, when you meet them you think that figure is 10 times overrated.
How do they not get themselves killed????

[marioc]

"If you say "computers ARE my hobby" - then forget IT as a career - reality is substantially different from playing"

Guess I am the exception to this rule,gaming was and still is one of my big hobbies and I would have never even thought about IT as a career without it.

[pzkpfw]

Don't listen to Jim2 - he's an engineer and us programmers give them our stinky jobs, because we are too busy with our super models and super yachts.

At 40, if your "friend" wants to go IT, think about becomming a tester.

That's the best way to use years of non-IT experience.

At high levels testing pays pretty well too.

But testing sucks.

[gav]

OK, a wide and varied response! Great to see, well, my background, I started in local Hospital Board administration, roles mainly in clerical, purchasing and cashier. At 21, and keen to jump up the ladder, I soon discovered that my next targeted positions were held by people only about 10 years older than me, married, kids, mortaged etc and they weren't going elsewhere. All the promise that I had shown had been rewarded with pay increments, that meant I'd reached about as far as I was going to go. Ended up leaving and taking up a position in a Chartered Accountants office basically working as a accountant, own portfolio of smaller clients etc but without doing any exams. There for 3 years and then redundancy after the market flattened out. Worked in motorcycle shops doing parts and accessories, then couple of sole charge store type roles, back into motor trade admin roles, before seven years running a busy landscape supplies yard in a manager. Then seduced into a workshop supervisor role where I was promised the world but frankly none of which i saw and now I'm on the counter at good old Repco! Most have a low opinion of the place but its not a bad place to work, just for some reason the level of pay that retail attracts is a joke. it turns out I started fairly high up the payscale, which is great, expect when I applied for a 2IC position, I'd be on a monthly salary, required to work Saturdays (currently I'm Mon - Fri) but I'd be on the same money but no time and a half etc would apply! Umm, no thanks, even the Branch Manager admitted he got barely more than me, but he did get a car!
So why IT then? Well, at the majority of the positions I've held, most of the time they didnt have dedicated IT staff ,and it was pretty much the role I fell into. Setting up new computers and hardware, setting up and running new programs, getting the best out of the existing systems and introducing new ideas and ways etc. Whenever a problem needed sorting I'd be the guy talking to the tech heads at the other end! I also seemed to have an extraordinary amount of patience and seemed to be able to train new staff in the wonderful ways of the local setup. A couple of previous bosses have suggested that I should be working for the tech guys as I seemed to know more then them, nah just more familiar with what we were trying to do, and probably better at explaining it in terms that the owners or other staff could understand.
So, thats me (ummm hypothetically ... :rolleyes: )
So is it worth following it up? What would I prefer? Hell, customer support or service would be a great start, money wise, its gotta be at least what I'm currently on.
And if you've made it to the end thanks alot!

[Pussy]

Don't do it. Get a job working in a gas station. If you want to be humiliated, over worked, under paid, treated like a retard and abused by colleagues, employers, and clients alike the IT is for you.

You've just very accurately described the lot of an ag pilot!! :(

[LardEmbargo]

At 40, if your "friend" wants to go IT, think about becoming a tester. That's the best way to use years of non-IT experience.

Yeah I was just thinking of suggesting that. I got into IT as a tester. My lack of a relevant qualification (e.g. in Comp Sci) was actually a positive thing cos you need to look at software from the point of view of what it's supposed to do, not how it works. Draw on your expectations of software as a consumer and so on.

Although that doesn't mean just anyone will be any good at it. Sure, there are approaches and so on that you can learn, but good testers also have a knack for it that (having been involved in trying to teach testing to people) I suspect you either have or you don't.

Anyway, the consultancy I used to work for hired at least one guy (maybe 45 ish?) into what was essentially a junior, one-year-after-graduating position, while I was there. He's done really well, is well-thought-of and I'd've happily worked inna team with him again. Mostly cos he was a nice guy, was keen and interested, good at communicating and prepared to learn. He did have to put up with (as mentioned higher up) the automatic assumption from clients that he was senior in experience as well as in years, but we worked around that pretty much.


At high levels testing pays pretty well too.

Yeah you can do ok.


But testing sucks.

And yeah, it can suck. Testers get pretty cynical quite quickly. Because testing's so dependent on how together the rest of the stages of software development are, how much it sucks is also a fair barometer of how clueless, lazy or fuckstick-incompetent the rest of the organisation is. But testing can also be kind of satisfying - in some small way you get to help make sure the software does what someone actually wanted it to. All together now. Aaah isn't that sweet :)

Oh yeah, the other thing. If it turns out you are any good at it, you probably have a job for life. The supply of shit software is not likely to dry up anytime soon :/

[bobsmith]

You've just very accurately described the lot of an ag pilot!! :(

I thought he described the job of a PILOT full stop... I for one have no regrets about deciding not to pursue flying as a career after all the money I've spent on it. Especially when I look at the friends I trained with and what they're getting paid as pilots now....

[Fatjim]

Never in the field of human endevour has so little been achieved by so many doing virtually nothing and getting paid shit loads to do it.


Or...


find a job you love and never work a day in your life again.... or find a job in IT and never work a day in your life again and get paid shit loads as well.

[That Guy]

IF you have good people skills and are a competitive type, try sales.

You can earn more than anyone else in the company several times over. To be good at it requires long term relationship building and sticking by your customers no matter what, especially when things turn to shite, which in the IT world, happens often.

Takes a thick skin too 'cause there are short term box droppers out there who just sell FUD (Fear Uncertainty and Doubt) and sometimes they get business, which is frustrating as all hell. Luckily, in the end, honesty and integrity wins and you end up with fantastic realtionships with your customers, and doing business becomes good fun.

You don't need any formal skills; you can rely on your team of experts bring the technical knowledge (as long as the co. you work for doesn't need you to be the technical expert). Just remember to include your team in the glory when you win first time out if you ever want to win again!

By the way, if you don't bring technical knowledge to the customer's table, you still have to bring something that they value, for example: knowledge of their business and how you can help them, making the co. you represent perform to the standards they require, opening doors for them into new opportunites etc.

[James Deuce]

IF you have good people skills and are a competitive type, try sales.

You can earn more than anyone else in the company several times over. To be good at it requires long term relationship building and sticking by your customers no matter what, especially when things turn to shite, which in the IT world, happens often.

Takes a thick skin too 'cause there are short term box droppers out there who just sell FUD (Fear Uncertainty and Doubt) and sometimes they get business, which is frustrating as all hell. Luckily, in the end, honesty and integrity wins and you end up with fantastic realtionships with your customers, and doing business becomes good fun.

You don't need any formal skills; you can rely on your team of experts bring the technical knowledge (as long as the co. you work for doesn't need you to be the technical expert). Just remember to include your team in the glory when you win first time out if you ever want to win again!

By the way, if you don't bring technical knowledge to the customer's table, you still have to bring something that they value, for example: knowledge of their business and how you can help them, making the co. you represent perform to the standards they require, opening doors for them into new opportunites etc.
Bahahahahaha!

Blue Sky indeed.

I haven't met a "Sales" person that wouldn't fuck me over to save his/her skin yet. Service Delivery Manager, Salesperson, call it what you will, integrity only extends to the people paying his/her salary and commission. If you're actually providing a service to a salesperson you are nothing but a convenient scapegoat. I wouldn't piss on the person next door to an IT sales person on fire, for fear that a tiny drop of urine may ease some of immolated scumbag's excruciating agony

IT sales people have their own hell. They deserve every second of it. They cheat their customers and bag their workers, without exception or conscience.

[Big Dave]

Bahahahahaha!

Blue Sky indeed.

I haven't met a "Sales" person that wouldn't fuck me over to save his/her skin yet. Service Delivery Manager, Salesperson, call it what you will, integrity only extends to the people paying his/her salary and commission. If you're actually providing a service to a salesperson you are nothing but a convenient scapegoat. I wouldn't piss on the person next door to an IT sales person on fire, for fear that a tiny drop of urine may ease some of immolated scumbag's excruciating agony.

IT sales people have their own hell. They deserve every second of it. They cheat their customers and bag their workers.

I commend to you and sales staff a United Arts training fillum featuring John Cleese entitled - 'Who sold you this then?'

Alternately - burn them.

[James Deuce]

I commend to you and sales staff a United Arts training fillum featuring John Cleese entitled - 'Who sold you this then?'

Alternately - burn them.

Yes, burning them is definitely part of my plan.

That film is pure gold. It makes IT sales people writhe in embarrassment.

[That Guy]

:shit: That's it I'm changing jobs tomorrow, burning hurts.

[James Deuce]

*ticks the first box*

About 300 more to go.

[That Guy]

*finds out the 300 left look like hard work, reverts to lying* :Pokey:

[rainman]

If you've already got management experience, do what someone else suggested and try and jump in on a non-technical level where you're actually telling people what to do, because it forking sucks on the other end of it.

Or you could just become an accountant... same difference in the end.

[Ixion]

Or a rent boy on K road. Same difference in the end (just a different end)

[Drunken Monkey]

I'm going to shamelessly hijack this thread to recruit.
I have a position open for a junior network engineer/help desk 'consultant'. Preferably 2+ years help desk experience with hands on desktop support experience. Based in Greenlane.
Please PM me for more details.

[Sanx]

What RantyDave said ... get into IT project management. You need absolutely no skills other than the following:

Ask "How long will it take?" before the project has actually started, or even been fully defined.
Learn to ask "Is it done yet?" after half of the time you were told in step one.
When told "No - I said it would take x, ask "Why is it taking so long?" and then glaze over when you receive an answer containing words of more than one syllable. Like "fuckwit".

See - easy! A well-paid job in IT Project Management awaits you.

[Nasty]

What RantyDave said ... get into IT project management. You need absolutely no skills other than the following:

Ask "How long will it take?" before the project has actually started, or even been fully defined.
Learn to ask "Is it done yet?" after half of the time you were told in step one.
When told "No - I said it would take [I]x/I], ask "Why is it taking so long?" and then glaze over when you receive an answer containing words of more than one syllable. Like "fuckwit".

See - easy! A well-paid job in IT Project Management awaits you.

Damn I knew I was doing something wrong ... I should have spoken to you first before i trained ... would have been so much easier! :whistle:

[scracha]

See - easy! A well-paid job in IT Project Management awaits you.

You forgot
4 - Promise the customers lots of features that the software engineers say can't be implemented in time.

Anyway...here's something to cheer up the Mac & Linux fanboys

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