Certification Exams

[Wolf]

In January - in the midst of moving house - I sat the first of two Micro$oft Certification exams. Bloody hard it was - I hadn't studied and my mind was more on moving house before our baby was born than anything else. I was sure I was failing and about half way through I just wanted it to finish so I could go home.

Despite that, I passed and became a Microsoft Certified Professional.

Last Friday - 5 days after the birth of our daughter - I once again went up to Auckland, this time to sit the second test. Again, I hadn't studied. Again, my mind was on other matters. I had also had had very little sleep for the previous week and had had only one coffee that morning between dropping the boys off at kindy and school and being picked up to go to Auckland.

This exam was even harder than the first. It made the first one seem tame. This time I was certain I had failed.

Despite that, I managed to pass by an even better margin and so now I'm a MicroSoft Certified Desktop Support Technician.

All the best to Lias, who's going for his 2nd exam next month.

[Lias]

Grats old man.

[Wolf]

Grats old man.
Thank you, young Padawan.

[dveus]

Nice work mate.

Must get around to finishing mine off. Have a couple more to do for my MCSE. The most difficuilt thing I found with the exams was reading/understanding just what they were wanting from some of the scenarios.

[dino3310]

congrats on both occasions mate.
will know who to pm when i have any pc probs.:lol:

[magicfairy]

Nice work mate.

Must get around to finishing mine off. Have a couple more to do for my MCSE.
Worth doing, cos there won't be MCSE in 2008 track. MCSE is gone.
But if you have MCSE for Server 2003, a lot less exams to upgrade to MCTS (Technology Specialist) and MCITP (IT professional) in the new certification tracks.

[pzkpfw]

Ah fooey.

I got an MCP back in the days when it was two exams. (Dunno what it is now, but it did become ONE at one stage).

I have "Developing Apps with Microsoft Access 2.0" and "Wosa", or "was", whichever it was then. My MCP number is so short (number-of-digit-wise) no one thinks it is real.

My current employer started a thing where they'd only send people to Tech-Ed. if they had "certification".

Screw 'em. I got a better job by going to a client and saying, basically, "hello".


Good on you all for doing the exams. Do them while you can be arsed.

[sinister^]

Grats man I'm doing my A+ at the momment soon to be doing MCP and CCNA

[Wolf]

Ah fooey.

I got an MCP back in the days when it was two exams. (Dunno what it is now, but it did become ONE at one stage).
I remember it was once 2 exams. Now the MCDST is 2 and the first exam you pass automatically gives you an MCP rating.

I've been working in the computer industry since '85 doing a variety of jobs - mostly self-taught or "learn on the job". So it means I have a shit-load of experience dating back to some fairly arcane stuff (not all of it IBM-based, either) but no qualifications. I started back when if you could show you knew more about the computer than the bloke hiring you, you got a job- despite a total lack of qualifications.

Recently the boss has been getting pretty insistent that the staff are demonstrably "qualified" so we're all having to pass exams to get paper qualifications to proove we can do the job we've been doing for the last few years. They're paying for the courses so I can't complain too much.

I've already got the Certified Novell Administrator rating but no point going for Certified Novell Engineer as we've migrated fully to Micro$oft.

This year they want me to do National Cert in Computing Level 4 - which'll be pretty much an RPL (Recognition of Prior Learning) for me. Just do the assignments on time and get my certificate.

At least someone can say to the auditors, "see, our staff are appropriately trained and certified".

[pzkpfw]

...shit-load of experience... ...but no qualifications.

Yep - good reason to do these exams, and good on the C.V. for those who can't see past the quals.



At least someone can say to the auditors, "see, our staff are appropriately trained and certified".

My current work (this is my last week) is a Microsoft Certified vendor. That means Microsoft rates them on how many "qualified" staff they have, and that affects how we can advertise ourselves.

[Nasty]

Well done on this achievement .. i know the exams are quite tough!!:Punk:

[YellowDog]

Well done on this achievement .. i know the exams are quite tough!!:Punk:
Some pepole study really hard to get these. Some fail, 'cos it is quite tough.

What annoys me is the people who just buy a book on passing the MCPs and pass, yet know bugger all.

They were the ones that I seemed to always have the misfortune to employ!

[vifferman]

Good stuff, Dr Wolf! :niceone:

[Krayy]

Not wanting to detract from Wolf's achievement (I hate exams and tend to freeze anytime I do one), but this is what's wrong with the M$ certification program.

In a nutshell, anyone can pick up a book and pass it within a couple of days, and sometimes these "professionals" end up in positions of responsibility that are way beyond their level of expertise. I worked with a bloke in a Novell environment that got his CNE and wore the lapel pin everywhere like the dork he was and what he didn't tell people was that he learned the material it out of a crib notes book. I spent most of my time (with my lapel pin firmly in a sock drawer at home) fixing his f**k ups.

I would rather that all of these technology companies throw in a requirement similar to an apprentice scheme, where the certification is backed by actual experience. When I did the Solaris Engineer exams, I could not have got anywhere near a pass without a couple of years hands-on plus a refresher course before the exam, likewise with the Linux one.

One of the best (or worst depending on your viewpoint) seems to be the Cisco network engineer exams, where you would require a good 4 or 5 years hands on plus a huge number of courses to get within cooee of a pass. Who would have thunk setting up a router would be so hard?

P.S. I have actually blinged Wolf on his pass :Playnice:

[Tank]

As an employer - we value them, and the effort that people put into getting them.

We pay $450 for each paper someone passes as a 'thanks for the effort'.

As you can imagine that gets expensive when you have a couple of hundred MS developers.

[pete376403]

I got the msce thing way back in NT4.0 days, which they then promptly retired. Couldn't do the "upgrade to 2000 exam as one of my quals was "supporting Win95", rather than NT4 workstation, even tho the 95 exam was part of the NT4.0 track.
couldn't be arsed laying down another $10k and starting all over again, and then having THAT retired, and doing it again (and again, and again...)
Employers (or more accurately, recruitment agencies) demands for certifiction* are more about covering their own arse, so that when the paper MCSE they recommended for the job fucks up, they can bleat "well he had all the qualifications..."
I've worked with any number or (mostly Asian) "mcse's" who were completely incapable of the most basic tasks

(Certifiction - (n) claiming to be qualified to perform a task by virtue of holding a paper. No experience required)

[James Deuce]

After 21 exams in 6 years I gave up.

Too much time, too much effort and no recognition or recompense. When they decided that Windows 2000 MCSE's needed yet two MORE exams to maintain "competency" and gain a Server 2003 qual I flagged it.

No disrespect to your achievements lads and keep up the good work. It can have an immediate return, but for someone like me it becomes pointless after a while. I think they need to change the model from exams to practicums. I think there is too much emphasis on the intellectual in IT, when it is more of a trade, and experience rather than qualifications is the real decider when the chips are down. When you ask someone on the helldesk (with a Server 2003 MCSE)to add someone to a security group and they ask, "how?", and you say, "duh, through AD", and they look at you blankly, you know that the model isn't working as intended.

[yod]

After 21 exams in 6 years I gave up.

Too much time, too much effort and no recognition or recompense. When they decided that Windows 2000 MCSE's needed yet two MORE exams to maintain "competency" I flagged it.

No disrespect to your achievements lads and keep up the good work. It can have an immediate return, but for someone like me it becomes pointless after a while. I think they need to change the model from exams to practicums. I think there is too much emphasis on the intellectual in IT, when it is more of a trade, and experience rather than qualifications is the real decider when the chips are down. When you ask someone on the helldesk (with a Server 2003 MCSE)to add someone to a security group and they ask, "how?", and you say, "duh, through AD", and they look at you blankly, you know that the model isn't working as intended.

a cynical post from Jim2?

im shocked

[James Deuce]

a cynical post from Jim2?

im shocked
You might want to read it again. I think your cynic sphincter had a spasm.

[yod]

You might want to read it again. I think your cynic sphincter had a spasm.

oh...apologies

force of habit

[pzkpfw]

Force is bad for your sphincter.

[Lias]

Both me and Wolf are well aware that people can have quals and no substance.. Whilst not quite as grizzled a veteran as he is, I have been working in IT for an ungodly 13 or so years now.

I have in the past encountered my fare share of dickheads with quals ranigng form A+ up to a fully fledges MCSE who were completely fucking useless in a real world environment.

My theory is the quals + the experience + the fact i've finally gotten off my arse and gotten a cage license will reap profits this year. If not it may be time to whip out the etherkiller.

[Wolf]

What annoys me is the people who just buy a book on passing the MCPs and pass, yet know bugger all.


In a nutshell, anyone can pick up a book and pass it within a couple of days, and sometimes these "professionals" end up in positions of responsibility that are way beyond their level of expertise. I worked with a bloke in a Novell environment that got his CNE and wore the lapel pin everywhere like the dork he was and what he didn't tell people was that he learned the material it out of a crib notes book. I spent most of my time (with my lapel pin firmly in a sock drawer at home) fixing his f**k ups.


I've worked with any number or (mostly Asian) "mcse's" who were completely incapable of the most basic tasks

(Certifiction - (n) claiming to be qualified to perform a task by virtue of holding a paper. No experience required)


When you ask someone on the helldesk (with a Server 2003 MCSE)to add someone to a security group and they ask, "how?", and you say, "duh, through AD", and they look at you blankly, you know that the model isn't working as intended.

Believe me, I hear and understand what you guys are saying. It's not just the 5-day-course-then-sit-2-exams certs either, I've encountered complete know-it-all twats without a real clue who have University degrees - notably an ex-classmate of mine who got a Bachelors in Comp. Sci at Waikato. I dropped out of the varsity course, spent some time on the dole then bluffed my way into a programming job (with my background in Pascal and self-taught BASIC) and eventually landed a permanent job based on how well I'd performed. After he had graduated, this bloke came around to borrow my computer and couldn't even switch it on, then he nearly fucked the floppy drive trying to insert the boot diskette sideways - but he was more "qualified" than I. I'm sure he could tell me all about Charles Babbage's Differential Engine and Dame Ida Lovelace or the theory of storing effective databases, though...

When I sat my Netware v4.0 CNA, I had just missed out on being able to sit the v3.12 exams by a couple of months. Pity, as I could have passed the 3.12 exam based entirely on my practical experience (basically an RPL), having worked with Novell bindary-mode servers since v1.0. But, nah, they said the new standard was v4.0 and I actually had to learn something new (Novell Directory Services) on the course. I didn't have any experience of NDS at all as we were a 3.12 shop so I found the exam hard. When I upgraded to v5 CNA, it was easier as I'd been using Netware v5 for around 3 months and the NDS was old hat.

What gets me is the number of kids these days that look at you if you're speaking a foreign language the minute you start talking of the command line and don't even know how to write basic batch files or use the arguments with the DOS commands to get speedy results that the GUI cannot do.

They'll be fucked soon - Server 2008 is going back to the CLI and a smaller footprint to compete with Linux. They won't have the pretty GUI and wizards to make it easy, just arcane commands and arguments.


As an employer - we value them, and the effort that people put into getting them.

We pay $450 for each paper someone passes as a 'thanks for the effort'.
Hmmmm, any vacancies for 44-year-old bikers with entry-level Microsoft certifications?

[pzkpfw]

I dropped out of the varsity course, spent some time on the dole then bluffed my way into a programming job (with my background in Pascal and self-taught BASIC) and eventually landed a permanent job based on how well I'd performed.

Yeah, I dropped out, basically, finished my degree extramurally. Luckily no employers have asked to see my transcript. My new car felt like home - the plate starts with "DNC".



They'll be fucked soon - Server 2008 is going back to the CLI and a smaller footprint to compete with Linux. They won't have the pretty GUI and wizards to make it easy, just arcane commands and arguments.

Programming has gone that "GUI way" in many ways, and I hate it. It's all well and good dragging and dropping text boxes onto a form to place them, but then all sorts of non-visual stuff starts getting done by dragging and dropping and clicking-up the properties windows. Add to that all the arcane XML config files that pop-up everywhere. Bah.

I like a CLI, and I like programming. Drag-drop-click-click-click is for Honda riders and Mac users.

[James Deuce]

Yeah, I'm looking forward to Powershell too. It's a lot more intuitive than Windows Shell Scripting, and a lot less code intensive.

The best thing will be being able to build all the remote servers I manage with a CLI so the buggers can't use them as workstations.

[Wolf]

Yeah, I'm looking forward to Powershell too. It's a lot more intuitive than Windows Shell Scripting, and a lot less code intensive.

The best thing will be being able to build all the remote servers I manage with a CLI so the buggers can't use them as workstations.
And the blow-hard in Marketing who has an XP workstation doesn't feel he's "qualified" to do things on the server due to how it looks the same...

[007XX]

Woohooo!!! :banana:

Well done sir!!! :niceone: That is awesome news...

[Drunken Monkey]

Can someone confirm for me if my MCP (NT4 WKSTN + SRVR) certs need updating yet?

(/bad joke)