U-Turn Q&A, Tips and Tricks

[ital916]

Hey guys...again

Man this seems to be a posting threads week for me. Was practicing U turns whilst killing time waiting for someone. I was on the side of the road, checked to make sure no traffic was coming, started pulling off, cranked the steering to lock and started pulling the u turn and promptly started wobbling. Every time i try it I get the wobbles unless I am already going at like 10 k and there is heaps of room. If i am starting from stand still I really have trouble doing a u turn, or even at a walking pace it's tricky. What's causing the wobble, do I need to counter balance the bike. I always end up sticking my leg out to stop from falling over *shame*. My counter steering skills have improved lots but alas it seems my u turn skills still suck. lol Gotta love kiwibiker it's a supportive forum, and when you make a cock of yourself *like asking a stupid question such as the one I have just asked* you get funny p/t replies.

Ride Safe

Drider

[JimO]

pactise in a empty car park, less chance of being run over

[yungatart]

Don't ask me...I always get hubby or son or some other gorgeous male to do it for me..you could always try that...

[BiK3RChiK]

I sort of have the same problem sometimes. I have found that if I look 'through' the u-turn instead of in front of the bike, then I wobble less. Hard to describe really...

M

[chanceyy]

Definately give yourself plenty of room to practice, start straight look to where you want to go, weight the outside peg (clench your thigh muscle) and practice large circles and get smaller

have just practiced this for the last two months in prep for my full last week .. most important parts are the focus to where your going and the weighting of the pegs ... also if you feel your going to fast only use the back brake to slow rather than the front ..

can not underestimate the practice though .. :) good luck

[ital916]

Don't ask me...I always get hubby or son or some other gorgeous male to do it for me..you could always try that...

I could always get my mum to do it for me, she wants to get a bike, but she would just dump the clutch and pin the throttle. Next thing you know she's off into the sunset on one wheel. *she managed to stoppie a scooter whilst getting her basic handling skills recently :cool:, then dropped it lol*

[Katman]

A common problem with learning U-turns is starting the turn too sharply. Start the turn in at a shallower angle and increase the angle of turn only as your speed through the turn increases.

[martybabe]

Personally, I ride the clutch,it gives much more low speed control,dont ever use maximum lock no room for adjustment, works easy as. I don't know if that would be legal for test purposes though. :msn-wink:

[Grub]

Having dropped my new bike a week after I got it, I worked it out. I feather the clutch to control power or no-power and it seems to work really well.

That way you can have some throttle on, so it doesn't snatch, and then just slip the clutch as you go around

[sosman]

If ya putting yr leg down to avoid falling over!,then ya need to have more throttle on & also would suggest praticing in a car park

[quallman1234]

For the record, you can make rather tight U turns on a RG150 (I have one). So don't go blaming it on the steering stop.

[Mikkel]

I find that going into 2nd gear helps a lot. (At least for my small 250 - it would depend upon gearing though.)

Challenge is to maintain smooth throttle control even though you're turning - riding the clutch sounds like a good idea to help this issue.

Furthermore I've found that when maneuvering at very low speeds it pays to hang off to the opposite side compared to where you are going and then lean the bike out underneath you while steering (not countersteering...).

You can never practice it too much :)

[Goblin]

Turn bars to the right, tilt bike to the right, rev like fuck, dump the clutch...and hang on! :jerry::jerry:

[martybabe]

Having dropped my new bike a week after I got it, I worked it out. I feather the clutch to control power or no-power and it seems to work really well.

That way you can have some throttle on, so it doesn't snatch, and then just slip the clutch as you go around


Thats the way,Grub put it better than me, work the clutch puts you in control at silly slow speeds. :apint:

[Neon]

You might also find trailing a little rear brake helps to stabilise the bike - high performance small engines can be a bit touchy, so trailing the brake keeps tension on the chain and helps with smoothing out power delivery.

I do this with the Hornet and it works a charm for low speed manouvering. :cool:

[Usarka]

Ditto on the clutch. Use a constant throttle so you dont have to worry about your right hand. Ride the back brake which somehow balances the bike, and use the clutch to control speed.

[edit] just noticed i've repeated wat most others have said - listen to them they be bright sparks!

or this might help it stick:

[Mikkel]

You might also find trailing a little rear brake helps to stabilise the bike - high performance small engines can be a bit touchy, so trailing the brake keeps tension on the chain and helps with smoothing out power delivery.

I do this with the Hornet and it works a charm for low speed manouvering. :cool:

Oh, and of course none of all this is made easier if your chain hasn't got the right tension... :no:

[Duc]

Turn the bike right as you move off , tilt it to the right but lean out to the left left. (Tightens the circle and balances things naturally)

Good tip for big bikes but should work on a little 150 or a pushbike as well

Practise....

[Ixion]

Hey guys...again

Man this seems to be a posting threads week for me. Was practicing U turns whilst killing time waiting for someone. I was on the side of the road, checked to make sure no traffic was coming, started pulling off, cranked the steering to lock and started pulling the u turn and promptly started wobbling. Every time i try it I get the wobbles unless I am already going at like 10 k and there is heaps of room. If i am starting from stand still I really have trouble doing a u turn, or even at a walking pace it's tricky. What's causing the wobble, do I need to counter balance the bike. I always end up sticking my leg out to stop from falling over *shame*. My counter steering skills have improved lots but alas it seems my u turn skills still suck. lol Gotta love kiwibiker it's a supportive forum, and when you make a cock of yourself *like asking a stupid question such as the one I have just asked* you get funny p/t replies.

Ride Safe

Drider

More speed. If you wobble, give it (gently) more throttle. You can do right hand turns OK ? Well, a U turn is just two right hand turns one after the other. Do a right hand turn to the centre of the road. Then a second right hand turn. For some reason the whole U turn thing seems to rattle novices.

[McJim]

For some reason the whole U turn thing seems to rattle novices.

Hahaha. Try O turns - like 2 u turns stuck together. Practice that in a car park for a while. Once you're halfway good at that a U turn will be a piece of piss ;)

[Choco]

I find that going into 2nd gear helps a lot.

I fail u-turns if I'm not in second gear. Period.

[RantyDave]

You might also find trailing a little rear brake helps to stabilise the bike
Yeah, this is definitely the ticket. If you come on and off the throttle, it'll wobble all over the place. Control speed with a little bit of rear brake - in first you can go /really/ slowly doing this.

And, not wanting to be boring, but look through the turn. Really deliberately twist your head, almost to the centre of the turn. You'll find yourself trundling round and gently hitting the stops on the handlebars.

Practice. And rest assured that nearly everybody hates them.

Dave

[Ixion]

Hahaha. Try O turns - like 2 u turns stuck together. Practice that in a car park for a while. Once you're halfway good at that a U turn will be a piece of piss ;)

Actually , 8's are the real thing. Left hand O, into a right hand O and back , and repeat. Once you cna do full lock figure 8s , u turns are a doddle.

[BUNGY]

I just sort of walk it round but use the engine to move the bike.

[Daffyd]

Get your feet on the pegs as soon as you start moving. It helps stabilise the bike. It even helps to put a bit of weight on them. (Lowers the centre of gravity).

[Banesto John]

Use the back brake. Look at where you want to go, not the front of the bike. Head up. Breathe in. Keep medicines in a high cabinet, away from children. Don't play on the freeway, you'll be run over. Accelerate slowly, but don't even think of backing off. Drive the bike through the u-turn.:chase:

[Mike748]

Turn the bike right as you move off , tilt it to the right but lean out to the left left. (Tightens the circle and balances things naturally)

Good tip for big bikes but should work on a little 150 or a pushbike as well

Practise....

This also works for me.

I also shuffle my weight over the rear wheel and stick my inside knee out from the bike to help balance and stop it getn caught by the bars.
... and feather the clutch to control speed.

[Goblin]

Actually , 8's are the real thing. Left hand O, into a right hand O and back , and repeat. Once you cna do full lock figure 8s , u turns are a doddle.Absolutely! Practice in an empty carpark. It's actually lots of fun practicing slow, precise riding. Try the clutch thing and the rear brake trailing etc. The only way to learn is to practice but do it in a safe place.

[Skyryder]

There are very few bikers who can perform this manourvre with some degree of skill. Go to a car park find a spot and stop as you would on the road. Ya gotta ber stationary. Now commence the turn in as short and most comftable turn.

Take a mental note of the start position and the position when you are in the opposite direction. The key is noting your turning circle. It's important that you commence these first turns in a comftable and easy manner. They will be wide dont try and turn tight at this stage. Practice this and note your body position lean etc. Now do the same thing same wide turn and give yourself some juice just as you are coming out of the turn. Not a lot just a bit to power up. You will in all probaility turn wider. No problem but aim for the same turning radius. When feel comftable with this and it may take some time keep the power on but lean over a bit further. This will reduce your radius. The trick is to lean and power up to compensate for the angle.

What you are trying to achive is a tight UTurn and this can only bve achieved by a low angle that is compensated with some power to keep the bike upright. It's a balancing act but man when you see someone who can do this it's impressive.

This is not learnt over night but reqiures constant practice.

Sklyryder

[Skyryder]

A common problem with learning U-turns is starting the turn too sharply. Start the turn in at a shallower angle and increase the angle of turn only as your speed through the turn increases.


Yep that's right. Most try to tight, cock up and never master this.

Skyryder

[goodguy8]

keep going around and around a Roundabout:lol::chase: and slower and slower.. then try a u turn.. ul find it much easier.. :clap:

[mowgli]

What a coincidence. I was out practising the same thing this evening. After dozens on U-turns on various roads I found there were two points additional to what's been said already. First keep your head level. I tried looking around but really the key was keeping your eyes level. I guess the horizon provides a stable reference to keep your bearings. I strongly agree with keeping a constant throttle position thoughout which leads to my second point. While riding the clutch and dragging the rear sometimes you get the feeling that you're going to collapse into the turn so you put your foot out, damn! In actual fact all you really need to do is let out the clutch a bit and the bike will stand back up nicely. It takes a few goes to get comfortable and trust that you won't drop it but it worked well for me.

[Gaz]

Actually , 8's are the real thing. Left hand O, into a right hand O and back , and repeat. Once you cna do full lock figure 8s , u turns are a doddle.

+1.
Turning your head completely around is the key. Unless you turn your head at the beginning of the turn you'll wobble around, regardless of the speed.

2nd gear is best, feather the clutch and control the speed with the rear brake. then look and lean - done.

[GaZBur]

What Duc said - Lean the bike in while you stay upright.
Plus - Feather the clutch like most of the others say, but I find the front brake gives more control in a tight turn than the rear. Two finger braking means you have a good grip on handle bar control and throttle.

Or alternatively you could just lean it over, dump the clutch and spin a few doghnuts and when the bike is pointed in roughly the right direction straighten it out with a nice monster wheelie just like I do! (In my dreams that is!)

[heyjoe]

Start over at left or move to the left to give yourself more room then turn head (bike will go where the eyes go), use clutch to feather, use rear brake very lightly to help stabilise the bike throughout (it works) and turn with light throttle. At low speeds the countersteering thing may not work so well so its a bit more like a real turn of the wheel.

[TOTO]

I still cant do it properly , still put my food down. Dunno why they want no foot down ?:(

[CookMySock]

[....] cranked the steering to lock and started pulling the u turn and promptly started wobbling. Every time i try it I get the wobbles unless I am already going at like 10 k and there is heaps of room. If i am starting from stand still I really have trouble doing a u turn, or even at a walking pace it's tricky. What's causing the wobble, do I need to counter balance the bike.You're doing good bud.

You control your balance in a turn with speed or steering. If you cant add steering lock (already on full lock) then you are stuck with using the throttle - add a small smooth amount of power and that will add more outward force.

Practice circles in a carpark using EITHER steering or power, then once you are skilled you can use one or the other, or both. :done:

Steering: start at 12-15km/hr and countersteer into a circle and maintain it with very very small countersteering changes - accuracy!! Don't wiggle around on the bike - use steering only and make tiny changes. When you are expert at this add your head and shoulders and SLIGHTLY weight the inside of the corner - notice the corner tighten and the steering become lighter.

Power: enter a tighter circle at low speed and nearly full steering lock - notice the tendency for the bike to topple toward the inside of the corner - increase your speed using power, and notice the bike stays upright now. Be careful - keep it smooth and decrease your circle radius and increase your lock until you are at full lock and maintaining a smooth line with throttle. Hit a slippery patch doing this and you have little or no options so watch it.

Oh, the wobble is prolly you paniccing.. "Pilot induced oscillations" :pinch:

DB

[HungusMaximist]

All I can say is that never grab a fistful of brakes while you're doing a U-TURN.

[thehollowmen]

ok, there is a video about "ride like a pro" from the US, can't remember the name of the guy. He was a harley bike cop there and so the slow speed uturns and things were pretty well practiced. He also did lots of practice things like lock-8s and lock-0s in the vid and explained how to do them.

Anyway, feather-touch the rear brake and never touch the frount one. Clutch control is important too.

Make use of the whole road, so pull left into the cycle lane / car parks a bit before U turning to the right. A half a meter or so can make it so much easier.

don't forget to head check :-p

I've seen a goldwing do a full lock peg scraping uturn in a narrow dunedin street, so my advice is practice what everybody is saying and make use of ALL the room available on the road.

[vifferman]

You've actually got ALL the answers here, in dribs'n'drabs.
Here'e the complete list:
1. Head: keep it level, but look right through the turn, where you want to go. For sharp turns, you'll find you have to look right over your shoulder.While doing that, quickly scan with your eyes fro obstacles (debris, potholes, etc.)
2. Speed: This is critical. You can control it with a mixture of throttle, clutch and back brake. Using the back brake means you can use a bit more throttle, which makes it easier.
3. Body position: control your lean by moving your butt. Unlike higher-speed turns, you will probably need to keep your body to the outside of the turn (fairly upright) and push the bike down. Sometimes it's easier if you are standing up, rather than sitting, as you can move the bike around more, using a combination of foot pressure on each peg, body movements and handlebar adjustments. However, if your bike has very low 'bars, standing up may be more awkward.
4. Steering: a combination of handlebars and body position and speed. Unlike 'normal' riding, you are basically steering where you want to go. You can move the handlebars quicker than your body, so moving them back and forth will help control the bike's balance.
5. Practice makes perfect.

Don't worry about dabbing with your foot while you're learning - it's better than dropping your bike. As you get better, you won't need to do it so often.

[jrandom]

When doing U-turns, I like to stick my right leg out, motocross style, and imagine that I'm sliding the rear and throwing up a huge rooster tail.

:laugh:

I never actually touch a boot down, but it's fun to pretend, and somehow it always makes me do tighter U-turns, too.

[jrandom]

Don't ask me...I always get hubby or son or some other gorgeous male to do it for me...

ZOMGLOL! Oh, man. Do you mean, like, you stop, get off, they ride up and U-turn your bike for you, then you hop back on?

You must get some very odd looks.

Have you considered going to a carpark and practicing until you can do U-turns yourself? It should only take an hour or two.

:confused:

Actually, the RRRS course would surely be ideal for you. Are such things available in HB?

[Strider]

practice, practice and practice in a empty safe car park. you will get it in the end.:scooter:

[EJK]

You seriously gotta come to AWNR dude lol

[G4L4XY]

I'm on my restricted and have just completed a defensive driving course to knock down my retricted license time.
During the practical test I was asked to do a U-turn in one motion without putting my foot down which I failed miserably.
I aim to practise it a bit more but does anyone have any advice for me. I've been riding for two years just never really had to do a u-turn before. I have a Hyosung Gt250R...
If anyone wants to give me a lesson that'd be greatly appreciated :)

[steve_t]

Didn't you have to do a u-turn to get your restricted? :shit:

Tips: Practice, practice, practice. Look where you want to go; not at your front tyre. Squeeze the tank with your thighs. Don't grab at the front brake :niceone:

[misterO]

Try using the clutch instead of the throttle: Keep it in 1st gear and let out the clutch slightly- as little as possible (and don't give it any throttle). Also: putting gentle pressure on the rear brake while you do the turn helps to maintain stable control. Last (but not least important): make a teardrop shape as you steer- that is, before you turn right first turn slightly to the left and THEN right. If turning left, turn slightly right and THEN start your left turn. Hope this helps!

[nzspokes]

Come to SASS. We will teach you up. :niceone:

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/117274-South-Auckland-Street-Skills

[Maha]

I'm on my restricted and have just completed a defensive driving course to knock down my retricted license time.
During the practical test I was asked to do a U-turn in one motion without putting my foot down which I failed miserably.
I aim to practise it a bit more but does anyone have any advice for me. I've been riding for two years just never really had to do a u-turn before. I have a Hyosung Gt250R...
If anyone wants to give me a lesson that'd be greatly appreciated :)

Practice at a rounda-bout...turn your head and look to where you want the bike to go.
It'll come all to easy soon enough.
PS: Use your indicators when on the rounda-bout.

Or...seek the advice of a LTNZ Aprroved Riding Instuctor (in Orewa)....www.rcsom.co.nz

[sil3nt]

Didn't you have to do a u-turn to get your restricted? :shit:Different for everyone.

I only had to do a U-Turn for my full and I put a foot down and still passed.

I have a magazine here that covers low speed riding.

Stick your arse on the opposite side of the bike to what your turning and it apparently helps.

[bikaholic]

I'm on my restricted and have just completed a defensive driving course to knock down my retricted license time.
During the practical test I was asked to do a U-turn in one motion without putting my foot down which I failed miserably.
I aim to practise it a bit more but does anyone have any advice for me. I've been riding for two years just never really had to do a u-turn before. I have a Hyosung Gt250R...
If anyone wants to give me a lesson that'd be greatly appreciated :)Matey, matey, matey, you were never ready for the test.

[rapid van cleef]

In the UK you are taught the following method. and foot down = instant fail.

seems people do it differently. However I found with this method your not chopping or increasing the throttle and or using the front brake and clutch to control speed. there is less to control on the bike and leaves you to focus on where you are going once you have your momentum. try it.

1st gear, let the clutch out until biting point with enough revs to pull away in a firm but not aggresive manner. hold the clutch stil, so its not all the way out. use the rear brake to control the speed, not the front brake. so the throttle and clutch stay constant.

[Katman]

Don't think of the shape as a U.

At the start of the turn, take a very shallow curve and as your momentum increases pull the turn in tighter.

As you pull the turn in tighter turn your head more to look to where you want the bike to end up facing.

[bikaholic]

Don't you have to do a series of figure 8's anymore ?

[steve_t]

Don't you have to do a series of figure 8's anymore ?

Only in the BHST I think

[cheshirecat]

this guy's quite watchable
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAar19KQK18&list=PLEB4B17A7836BAAC3&index=2&feature=plpp_video

[James Deuce]

Get the back wheel spinning and then lean a bit. Really impress them by doing a feet up 520 doughnut.

[george formby]

My GF is training for her basic handling test. My conclusion? Get some professional training. It will save you a heap of time, give you confidence & all the skills you need to handle your bike. Worth it's weight in gold. U turns were her bug bear for a number of reasons, she has it nailed now & is getting tighter & tighter:eek:

[rastuscat]

Momentum is the key. If you try to be too cautious you risk having a lie down.

Ride into the u-turn with confidence, and let the bike do the work it as designed for. Keep the revs up, feather the clutch, and ride it.

Use the force, Luke.

[The Singing Chef]

I can come give you and bro, pm me your details. or better yet, come to nass. or sass depending if your north or south.

Matt

[zmlam]

Same as what has been said - though for me I need to emphasis where I look. Tendency is to look directly down at the road, but I have to force myself to look where I want to turn. Same as how you probably got through ur BHS figure 8s, look through the corner. Something I failed many a times initially coming from push bike habits.

Also was told in BHS that sometimes turning is easier in 2nd gear as first gear can be jerky due to its sensitivity. Have tried it several times in 2nd gear and i barely need to give it any gas, it certainly IS easier for me in 2nd gear.

But do share how you got along - be good to see what other techniques there are!

[MSTRS]

Using second gear is a good point...it forces you to ride the clutch more. Which is what you need to do to avoid any jerkiness which unsettles bike and rider.
'Best' technique? Turn your head to look over your right shoulder (U turn will be to the right) because you should look where you are going and you will go where you are looking. Revs depend on bike, enough to avoid stalling. Slip the clutch. Start moving BEFORE you turn the bars. Both feet up. Slight pressure on rear brake. Then because you are looking hard right, round you go...

[Swoop]

Saw the thread title and thought "must be about police U-turn skills" or more specifically, the lack of.

[Gianz]

riding 2 years and not able to do a U-turn?
buy a car.

[MSTRS]

riding 2 years and not able to do a U-turn?
buy a car.

You'd be amazed at how many 'experienced' riders are out there that can't. It's not always tested...

[wingnutt]

Yep, look to where you want to go and the bike will follow.

1. Let the clutch out to just where it starts move away hold the clutch here, this is the friction zone.

2. Use a small amount of throttle, and use the back brake only to control your speed.

3. As the bike starts to move away, snap your head around, and look back to the lane you want to be in, and the bike will come around smoothly to where you want to be.

[GrayWolf]

[QUOTE=george formby;1130248237, she has been nailed now & is getting tighter & tighter:eek:[/QUOTE]

There fixed it for Ya :innocent:

[GrayWolf]

You'd be amazed at how many 'experienced' riders are out there that can't. It's not always tested...

Very true,
I had done the cones, figure 8 etc mooooons ago, then went to my partners BHS and had a crack at the cones on one of the course GN's,,, bloody hades, I'd forgotten the 'finer points' of doing it. Clutch, throttle, rear brake etc were good, just the mechanics of cone weaving were 'dormant' :facepalm:

[FLY]

..maybe better for ya..:sick:

[george formby]

There fixed it for Ya :innocent:

Must be more careful with my choice of words. Mind you, training of any kind has it's benefits. Phnarr Phnarr.

My GF's issues were confidence in the bike, head turning & object fixation (the kerb). She proved to herself you do go were you look, over the kerb...

[Usarka]

In the UK you are taught the following method.

1st gear, let the clutch out until biting point with enough revs to pull away in a firm but not aggresive manner. hold the clutch stil, so its not all the way out. use the rear brake to control the speed, not the front brake. so the throttle and clutch stay constant.

+ head check, indicate, check again, look where you want to go.

The facist tested me with a u-turn on a narrow hill and aced it thanks to this method.

[Tigadee]

Hope this is helpful:

http://www.youtube.com/user/motorman857?blend=2&ob=0#p/c/B76B192649091250/23/H084SaM9pAg

[Tigadee]

She proved to herself you do go were you look, over the kerb...

Or towards the jewellery store window...

[george formby]

Or towards the jewellery store window...

I should put a Yoshi catalogue on the road....

[James Deuce]

You'd be amazed at how many 'experienced' riders are out there that can't. It's not always tested...

Gave myself a huge fright on the RVF when I just did a U-Turn without thinking about it. Maybe people think too hard about this stuff?

[george formby]

Gave myself a huge fright on the RVF when I just did a U-Turn without thinking about it. Maybe people think too hard about this stuff?

True, over thinking is a biggie. I just say to myself I want to be over there & look at it.

[awa355]

I did read on a motorbike website, that a bike with a wet clutch handles a slipping clutch /friction zone better than a dry clutch operation.

Would that be right?

[martybabe]

I'd make a lousy teacher, I've been doing u turns for decades but writing down what I actually do ... I have no idea. Never heard of using the rear brake though? Good luck anyway, you'll get it.

[george formby]

I'd make a lousy teacher, I've been doing u turns for decades but writing down what I actually do ... I have no idea. Never heard of using the rear brake though? Good luck anyway, you'll get it.

My predicament exacary. I know what I do but actually teaching it is a different ball game. Sooo I got my gf some proper training.

[Ocean1]

You'd be amazed at how many 'experienced' riders are out there that can't. It's not always tested...

I don't even think about the dirt bikes, I just slap them on full lock and ride around it. I can fuck it up on the Buell, though, it's got steering lock like the Exon Valdez and I've gotten a bit gun-shy of turning inside other bikes in a parking situation.

[MSTRS]

I'd make a lousy teacher, I've been doing u turns for decades but writing down what I actually do ... I have no idea. Never heard of using the rear brake though? Good luck anyway, you'll get it.

That's a piece of advice handed out to those who can't do a u-ey...
Along with a constant throttle, and slipping the clutch to avoid jerkiness, it helps to control actual rolling speed.
Riders of Harleys don't need that part of the process. Everyone knows that Harley brakes don't work. :shit::innocent:

[G4L4XY]

Thank you all for your advice,
I had a look at a vid on youtube. It's very good as is all your advice.
I can do them on the wider roads but the tighter roads prove difficult but I guess it comes with practise so that I will do!

[martybabe]

That's a piece of advice handed out to those who can't do a u-ey...
Along with a constant throttle, and slipping the clutch to avoid jerkiness, it helps to control actual rolling speed.
Riders of Harleys don't need that part of the process. Everyone knows that Harley brakes don't work. :shit::innocent:

Actually thinking about it that's exactly what I do on my pushbike (pedal against the brakes) for low speed manoeuvres, makes sense now but I think I'll stick to what I do now on the motorbike,whatever that is:blink:

[Old Steve]

Most important, before you start your U-turn:

LOOK OVER YOUR SHOULDER TO MAKE SURE YOU'RE NOT TURNING IN FRONT OF A VEHICLE COMING FROM BEHIND!!!!

[Tigadee]

I can do them on the wider roads but the tighter roads prove difficult...

This might help:


http://www.youtube.com/user/motorman857?blend=2&ob=0#p/c/B76B192649091250/11/CwUn_44yhYw

[SPP]

Don’t stress it dude, I had trouble u-turning my old Hyosung as well.

What helped me was sliding right up to the tank to be more upright and dragging some rear brake.
(My forearms used to jam up on the tank when the bars were turned which put me off but sliding up made it a lot better).

Practice in a car park and you’ll have it sorted in no time at all. Good luck, stay safe.

[george formby]

Thank you all for your advice,
I had a look at a vid on youtube. It's very good as is all your advice.
I can do them on the wider roads but the tighter roads prove difficult but I guess it comes with practise so that I will do!

Exacary. Slaloms, u-turns, figure 8's. Practice practice practice.

[Marmoot]

There are actually 2 ways of doing it.

Some people like to tilt lean the bike more while keeping their upper body upright. Tilt the bike on your waist. It works better with bigger bikes and smaller riders. Especially true for tourers and cruisers. This is the method used in Tigadee's video.
Example: http://www.youtube.com/user/motorman857?blend=2&ob=0#p/c/B76B192649091250/11/CwUn_44yhYw
Extreme example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1MlK5VPZ84&feature=related

The other way is to lean your upper body into the corner with the bike. Lean your shoulders into the turn and let the bike follow. Check out how riders in gymkhana do it (cue: youtube). It can be very effective if you are confident. Hesitate midway and the bike will wobble and you'll fail to complete the turn. It may need more throttle control and clutch play than normal.
Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5erdy08i_s

I started with the first, but now the 2nd is my favourite.

Both method requires speed control using clutch more than brake, and you to look into the turn to where you want to go (i.e., don't look to the front of the bike).
Don't use the front brake....ever....Ever.....Not in u-turns.
Be confident and you'll do it fine.

[jrandom]

can't u-turn. help

Look over your shoulder to where you want to go and just gun it. You'll surprise yourself. Bike always goes where you look. A u-turn is just a tight corner.

Watch the way this rider positions his head during the turns. He understands how crucial it is.

gTO2s7wyrFs

[James Deuce]

NC24's sound so nice. I'd get soooo lost on a Gymkhana course and if I did get it wrong I reckon I'd just ride off and not return. The shame.

[jrandom]

NC24's sound so nice. I'd get soooo lost on a Gymkhana course and if I did get it wrong I reckon I'd just ride off and not return. The shame.

Nonsense. You just whip back around to the end of the queue and have another go a few minutes later. Everyone else is worrying about exactly the same thing. It's like how fast you go at a trackday. Nobody but you cares about it. The point is to enjoy yourself.

[misterO]

The OP says: I can do them on the wider roads but the tighter roads prove difficult. This is what the "teardrop" shaped u-turn makes so much easier/better: it significantly reduces the amount of room you need to make the turn. At crawling speeds, if you want to turn hard to the right, first do a little turn to the left. If you want to turn left, first do a little flick to the right. It is a simple technique I've been taught in every advanced riding class I've attended, so I'm a little surprised that no one else has mentioned it (but only a little). Give it a try- see for yourself. It's not hard to do and it really does work.

[zique]

Hi there guys,I bought my bike some time ago and I have been taking it out as much as I can,which now is once a fortnight:(

Anyway I was just wondering,are there any tips the more advanced riders can give for someone who's still trying to perfect doing small turns and U-turns?

I have been practicing a bit and while trying to maintain a smooth turn,I find myself doing rather sharp turns with a sharp twist of the handle-bars,usually towards the inside of turning angle.
Bike is a VT250,so its a sport tourer,I believe.
I was told to exercise more control over my turning to rectify the problem and also that bikes tend to turn themselves more towards the direction I am turning to.
And do I keep a stiff arm as I am turning or relax them a bit?Would a more upright seating postion or lower lean towards the front help with the turning? I was trying that tonight and still couldn't get it properly right.

Any little tip or details or ideas,explanations might help.

Thanks.

[McFatty1000]

I'm not even close to an advanced rider but I know that I find using a big empty car park doing figure 8's works well for me - start out big and lazy like to start off smoothly and tighten it up as you feel more confident.

Oh, and remember to look at where you want to go, makes a huge difference to smoothness and you pretty much do it naturally without over thinking

[liljegren]

Here's a tip- put your bum slightly to the outside of the seat, keep a little drag on the rear brake, and feather the clutch a bit, not fully engaged. Try to stay smooth. Doing a really slow U-turn is one of the hardest things to master, so dont stress it. Hope it helps!

[Maha]

Use your head.
It dictates where your bike will go.
Do what liljegren said above, but turn your head in the direction you want the bike to go, looking at the bars will make it difficult.

A good place to practice is at a round-a-bout (just make sure your indicators are on)..do a loop, go up the road, a couple of side streets, come back and do it again, it will be in a different direction thatn first also, try it, it works.

[awayatc]

you can practice u turn in front of oncoming bike in a commodore............

is what the Police do, and their only interest is our safety.....

[schrodingers cat]

Depending on you ability to balance, there will a (slow) speed below which you'll struggle even in a straight line.
Often your U turn practice will be under that speed making things twice as hard for you.
Keeping your head up helps a lot and as the poster above says, where you look is where you go. If you look down your body will try to take you down

[Akzle]

noone posted the japanese guy on *CBR600RR on the kart track eh?
youtube that shit.

you should never have a stiff (arm) on a bike.
look where you are going.
smooth motion is better than jerky motion.
look where you are going.
if you're turning hard (you're not) wrap yourself around the bike, stand on the pegs and lean hard.
look where you are going.
if yer just pootling (you are) sitting upright is fine

you should probably (always) look where you're going. worry less about what you're doing. relax. practice.

[nzspokes]

Its simple and hard at the same time, the key is where you are looking. Find a carpark with a pole in it. Ride around the pole looking at the pole, not in front of the bike.

You can go to Sass, http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/117274-South-Auckland-Street-Skills?highlight=sass

Tell Jane what you want to know and she will get you on track.

[Tigadee]

Any little tip or details or ideas,explanations might help.

Good tips for you here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H084SaM9pAg&list=PLB76B192649091250&index=24&feature=plpp_video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlwHxFgFGgs&list=PLB76B192649091250&index=25&feature=plpp_video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zluOSO-0aU&list=PLB76B192649091250&index=7&feature=plpp_video

http://www.youtube.com/user/motorman857
http://www.youtube.com/user/RoadcraftNottingham

[sinfull]

Are you saying the bike seems to tip over as your turning, or that you panic and turn too sharp !

A well set up bike should be able to be controlled with no hands and you should be able to do (larger) U turns with just clamping ya legs on the bike, becoming one (so to speak) and with slight leans in each direction have the bike turning !
If your bike would fall over in a slight u turn when you took ya hands off the bars, it aint you that's the problem here !

[bogan]

Hi there guys,I bought my bike some time ago and I have been taking it out as much as I can,which now is once a fortnight:(

Anyway I was just wondering,are there any tips the more advanced riders can give for someone who's still trying to perfect doing small turns and U-turns?

I have been practicing a bit and while trying to maintain a smooth turn,I find myself doing rather sharp turns with a sharp twist of the handle-bars,usually towards the inside of turning angle.
Bike is a VT250,so its a sport tourer,I believe.
I was told to exercise more control over my turning to rectify the problem and also that bikes tend to turn themselves more towards the direction I am turning to.
And do I keep a stiff arm as I am turning or relax them a bit?Would a more upright seating postion or lower lean towards the front help with the turning? I was trying that tonight and still couldn't get it properly right.

Any little tip or details or ideas,explanations might help.

Thanks.

A VT250 is one of the best bikes to learn on, so don't worry about that aspect.
Yes most bikes will 'dip' into the turn.
Try and relax the outside arm so it is not applying any steering force at all, and you might find the inside arm (shouldn't be stiff either) has a much easier job of controlling it; actually for tight u-turns it might be the other way around as the rider is on the opposite side of the bike as usual higher speed cornering. Just whichever arms feels like you have the most control.
The tightest U-turn can be done with the bike leant under you (dirtbike style), the bars at full lock, and the bike controlled with the throttle/clutch. Find a nice car park and just get a feel for things, it'll probably be a while before you get to the really tight u-turns, but practice makes perfect!

[Tigadee]

Tight U-turns?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mS2nMiQpLU&feature=related

[zique]

Hi guys,thanks soooo much for the replies.I have read all of them and watched the videos and given it some thought.
Half my problem is not turning my head enough as I do the turn and looking at the ground slightly ahead of the bike.Hopefully tonight I can try that.I have done more than a dozen U-turns sucessfully and without using the rear brake to slow things down.I usually use the front brakes or let the bike slow down to a slow enough speed to do the turn.How many of you use the rear brake when turning?Just wondering.

Ooo trying on a roundabout is risky,I am not confident enough even though I know,especially for me,the fastest way for me to learn is pushing myself to the limit.Not something I'd want to do on my bike and the closest roundabout is a dangerous one with many lanes near Sylvia Park.

At night I go to a basketball court,which is nicely lighted and there is a hoop post in the middle so I ride around that.I guess I also need to practice more!Once a fortnight is not enough.

Yes Bogan,thats the word "dip" the bike wants to dip,I was warned about that,I'll try all the techniques if I go out tonight or later on.I've been slowing trying to perfect my basic skills and not leave things up to chance and luck,like the guy in the vid says.

NZspokes,thanks for that..Sass has been on my mind for a while,well ever since I bought my bike and I have contemplated going to that,along with my mate who's in the same boat as I.With a bit more confidence and basic skills,I'll make a booking for it.Can't wait to learn more on it and meet other bikers.

Thanks again guys:)

[Maha]

'Ooo trying on a roundabout is risky'

Sooner or later, you are going to have to use one...all in good (and your own) time.

[Katman]

Often the mistake is trying to turn too sharply at the start of the U-turn.

Try starting with a slightly wider arc and then tightening the turn as you get about a third of the way into it.

[Tigadee]

I have done more than a dozen U-turns sucessfully and without using the rear brake to slow things down.I usually use the front brakes or let the bike slow down to a slow enough speed to do the turn.How many of you use the rear brake when turning?Just wondering.

Make sure you stay off the front brake during turns, because the human tendency is to grab the brakes if one thinks one will be in trouble.

The front brake, being stronger than the rear, will jerk the bike to a halt faster than you can react and you'll fall. The rear brake has less brabbing power and is ideal for this kind of slow speed handling. Balancing the clutch, throttle and rear brake is the best when slow speed manouvering, especially with traffic around you or in tight areas, e.g. busy car parks.

Bleeding off speed w/o brakes before a turn is not wrong, although in traffic may not be ideal as you take too long to slow down and traffic behind you gets annoyed/frustrated. Not often but it does happen... Use combo of engine braking (lowering the gears as you slow) and brakes. That way you'll always be in the right gear in case you need to start moving again or get out of trouble/lane.

Sounds daunting but with time it'll be second nature. :msn-wink:

Here's a list of noob mistakes (I've learnt anyway):
1. Forgetting the sidestand (and dropping bike)
2. Forgetting to turn off the indicator after turning
3. Stalling (and dropping bike)
4. Braking too hard/too soft (too hard and dropping bike, too soft and end up not stopping in time)
5. Letting the clutch out too fast
6. Putting yur foot out on the wrong side of a slope when stopping (resulting in a drop/fall :facepalm:)
7. Running out of petrol (won't usually happen if you've got a fuel gauge)
8. Running on near flat tyres (so check everytime you fill up)
9. Leaving the KILL switch off and then wondering why the bike is dead when I try to start it the next day!
10. Leaving the bike in first gear and bike jumps forward when you next start it (resulting in almost dropping bike :facepalm:)

[george formby]

Practice your clutch, brake & throttle control in a straight line. When you are comfortable balancing the bike with these three controls at walking pace start to practice your turns. Turning your head to look where you want to go is paramount.


HERE (http://youtu.be/KdOmZE8CXxc) is a vid of meself practicing figure eights through a 1 meter gate........ Get your contolrs right first then get into your turns. Feels terrible if you think the bike is going to stall. I use the rear barke to control speed, not the throttle. I keep the revs up & apply or relax the brake to maintain momentum.

[chasio]

Use your head.
It dictates where your bike will go.
Do what liljegren said above, but turn your head in the direction you want the bike to go, looking at the bars will make it difficult.

A good place to practice is at a round-a-bout (just make sure your indicators are on)..do a loop, go up the road, a couple of side streets, come back and do it again, it will be in a different direction thatn first also, try it, it works.

You'd better find a REALLY quiet roundabout to go around in the wrong direction.... :lol:

[Gremlin]

Practise. Every bike is also different so if you change bike it will feel different until you get used to it.

Start off with simple stuff like wide u-turns, slow speed riding (go as slow as you can, and down below walking speed) and you'll get a feel for the bike and how the weight affects turning etc.

The actual techniques have been covered above, but first you need to get comfortable with the bike. Then practise.

For a comparison, I've done 80k+ on a CB900 and know it very well because all the km are city riding, tight turns etc. Lock to lock u-turns, figure 8s etc are all easy. On my BMW I've done 55k+ but still not anywhere close to the ability of the CB900, as a lot of the km are open road. With some recent practise I've noticed I'm getting better...

[george formby]

Practise. Every bike is also different so if you change bike it will feel different until you get used to it.

Start off with simple stuff like wide u-turns, slow speed riding (go as slow as you can, and down below walking speed) and you'll get a feel for the bike and how the weight affects turning etc.

The actual techniques have been covered above, but first you need to get comfortable with the bike. Then practise.

For a comparison, I've done 80k+ on a CB900 and know it very well because all the km are city riding, tight turns etc. Lock to lock u-turns, figure 8s etc are all easy. On my BMW I've done 55k+ but still not anywhere close to the ability of the CB900, as a lot of the km are open road. With some recent practise I've noticed I'm getting better...

I concur. Glad somebody else see's the value of continuing to practice regardless of experience.:2thumbsup

Oh, it's fun too.

[HenryDorsetCase]

head up, clutch slip, fingers OFF the front brake, drag the rear brake. LOOK WHERE YOU WANT TO GO. Repeat till you can do full lock figure eights starting in either direction.

We practiced this at the Karel Pavich Pro Rider course a couple weeks back. Its good fun. I usually do a few in the carpark at work when leaving. People look at you funny but the hell with them.

http://www.prorider.co.nz/motorcycle-training-coaching.php?page=90

I recommend this course to anyone, it doesnt matter how long you've been riding or how good you think you are, you'll learn something. Not just newbs, anyone.

[nzspokes]

Make sure you stay off the front brake during turns, because the human tendency is to grab the brakes if one thinks one will be in trouble.

The front brake, being stronger than the rear, will jerk the bike to a halt faster than you can react and you'll fall. The rear brake has less brabbing power and is ideal for this kind of slow speed handling. Balancing the clutch, throttle and rear brake is the best when slow speed manouvering, especially with traffic around you or in tight areas, e.g. busy car parks.

Bleeding off speed w/o brakes before a turn is not wrong, although in traffic may not be ideal as you take too long to slow down and traffic behind you gets annoyed/frustrated. Not often but it does happen... Use combo of engine braking (lowering the gears as you slow) and brakes. That way you'll always be in the right gear in case you need to start moving again or get out of trouble/lane.

Sounds daunting but with time it'll be second nature. :msn-wink:

Here's a list of noob mistakes (I've learnt anyway):
1. Forgetting the sidestand (and dropping bike)
2. Forgetting to turn off the indicator after turning
3. Stalling (and dropping bike)
4. Braking too hard/too soft (too hard and dropping bike, too soft and end up not stopping in time)
5. Letting the clutch out too fast
6. Putting yur foot out on the wrong side of a slope when stopping (resulting in a drop/fall :facepalm:)
7. Running out of petrol (won't usually happen if you've got a fuel gauge)
8. Running on near flat tyres (so check everytime you fill up)
9. Leaving the KILL switch off and then wondering why the bike is dead when I try to start it the next day!
10. Leaving the bike in first gear and bike jumps forward when you next start it (resulting in almost dropping bike :facepalm:)

Listen to this man, hes an expert. Hes crashed multiple times.:bleh:

[george formby]

May i add to your list Tigadee..

Not fully releasing the rear brake, it eventually goes a lovely blue colour. Great for lighting your ciggie on, though. Shortly after you just about dropped the bike when you pull the clutch in, in the middle of a turn.

[Tigadee]

Listen to this man, hes an expert. Hes crashed multiple times.:bleh:

Cheeky!:bash:

Lies! I only crashed once! I'd fallen multiple times...


May i add to your list Tigadee..

By all means, good sir...

[Ender EnZed]

A good place to practice is at a round-a-bout (just make sure your indicators are on)..do a loop, go up the road, a couple of side streets, come back and do it again, it will be in a different direction than first also, try it, it works.

I don't know what kind of roundabouts you use, but down here they all go clockwise.

[Maha]

I don't know what kind of roundabouts you use, but down here they all go clockwise.

ahahhhhhh true, well spotted :laugh:

[Tricia1000]

If you need any professional training to help you master Slow speed manoeuvring, and U turns, in preparation for your restricted test give me a shout. I am in Auckland.
Tricia1000
RoADA (Dip)
Consultant to NZTA

[p.dath]

Come along to NASS and we'll teach you how to do it.
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/wiki/North_Auckland_Street_Skills

[swbarnett]

I don't know what kind of roundabouts you use, but down here they all go clockwise.
Mostly yes. However, if you're driving your sister's SR Corolla with a bunch of friends in the middle of the night and you can't make up your mind where you're going a few laps one direction can easily be followed by a few in the other. Rince and repeat...

[Boblar]

Just wanted to say that this thread has some great tips on slow speed u-turns etc. It's been really helpful for me, and the key is practice, practice, practice :cool:

[george formby]

Just wanted to say that this thread has some great tips on slow speed u-turns etc. It's been really helpful for me, and the key is practice, practice, practice :cool:

Spot on.
Get yourself around motogymkhana, great thread on ADVrider about it. Couple of threads on here, too, but it's not setting the biking world on fire. Which is weird coz most of the riders I know cannot do full lock turns for love nor money.
What works at 20kmh works at 120kmh.

[rastuscat]

Just my 2 cents.

Remember that the engine produces power, but it's the clutch that keeps it at the rear wheel. If you are in a full lock turn, rear brake trailing, clutch feathered, head looking where you are going, weight outside, the tendency is to pull the clutch in or brake when you feel it going down.

The key is to put more power on, it's the only thing with any chance of preventing a lie down. Kind of counter intuitive. Up thecrevs, let a little more clutch out and the bike will try to stand. We like that.

[george formby]

Just my 2 cents.

Remember that the engine produces power, but it's the clutch that keeps it at the rear wheel. If you are in a full lock turn, rear brake trailing, clutch feathered, head looking where you are going, weight outside, the tendency is to pull the clutch in or brake when you feel it going down.

The key is to put more power on, it's the only thing with any chance of preventing a lie down. Kind of counter intuitive. Up thecrevs, let a little more clutch out and the bike will try to stand. We like that.
Yup, it's a mental thing keeping the throttle open and using the rear brake or clutch. I just use the brake now, dab it on to make the bike lean & turn then release to stand it up again, throttle stays constant.
Practice, practice, practice.