View Full Version : Another problem thread... (RG150 problem)
TCN
19th March 2008, 18:48
Hi everyone,
well, im stumped by this problem, cant figure it out. Ill be riding around town on my RG, when all of a sudden the bike starts to "chug" and jerk, like its starting to run out of fuel. after a few seconds of this, the bike just dies, no responce from the throttle or anything. I pull over, check the fuel cock, gears, etc etc, then try to start it. It takes about 10 kicks to get it going, when it usually takes 1-3. It seems to go fine for about 5-10 mins, then the same happens again. The fuel tank IS full btw, and ive pulled the carb out (it was missing a screw off the fuel pan, and want even held on properly!) and cleaned it/checked it. I got a new inline fuel filter, ive cleaned the in-tank filters, ive cleaned and reoiled the air cleaner, ive done evrything i can think of, yet this problem still occurs. Its usually doing about 4-5k revs in 5 gear.
Ive also noticed the temperature gauge barely move when riding it. Should i blank off some of the radiator to get some heat into it? im really confused.
Thanks!
Teflon
19th March 2008, 19:53
fucked coil?
Ixion
19th March 2008, 20:04
Well, for a start why on EARTH are you doing 4 -5 thousand rpm in fifth gear (or any gear for that matter).
It's a ruddy two smoker. RAPE IT.
I'm guessing the little smoker is fouling its plug and going into a well justified terminal sulk at such abuse.
There are only two engine speeds on an RG - idle and red line. Everything else is just on the way.
James Deuce
19th March 2008, 20:06
Poor, poor little RG.
FJRider
19th March 2008, 20:06
check the plugs, the oil pump to the cylinder may put a bit extra through and foul them. check spark at the same time, as well as spark GAP.
2 strokes need revs so if it does it again, change DOWN a gear or two. Whats your redline ??
TCN
19th March 2008, 20:22
Ill check the oil pump tomorow, but surely if a plug fouled, it wouldnt start till you cleaned it. Redlines about 13,500. Spark plug and gap have been checked, all fine. So what, your saying i should be cruising in 2nd or 3rd gear, doing 10,000k? that just seems stupid. The bikes only done 12,000kms btw.
Ill give it a fucken good warm up tomorow, and see what happens. Anything else?
Ixion
19th March 2008, 20:28
Ill check the oil pump tomorow, but surely if a plug fouled, it wouldnt start till you cleaned it. Redlines about 13,500. Spark plug and gap have been checked, all fine. So what, your saying i should be cruising in 2nd or 3rd gear, doing 10,000k? that just seems stupid. The bikes only done 12,000kms btw.
Ill give it a fucken good warm up tomorow, and see what happens. Anything else?
Yup. Exactly that. Redline @ 13500 so try to keep it between 13000 and 13500.
You've never owned a two smoker before , have you. Logic is irrelevant. It's a two stroke. Like a woman. Whatever you are doing is wrong, you've upset it somehow. Rape it.
georgie
19th March 2008, 20:57
My RG runs like a complete sack of shit unless i ring it's little neck, especially around town - I never get higher than 3rd gear on the way to work! I took it for a run to Miranda for the first time on the weekend and was redlining it most of the way (Ermmm - except for the really twisty bits :o haha) and it's running better than ever has before. Moral of the story - RGs love the redline :scooter:
Grub
19th March 2008, 20:57
TCN, you have to take the hits along with the good stuff here - it's not personal, people just don't know how to play nice sometimes:)
It sounds to me like you have a fuel problem even though you have done the usual things to clear it. I wonder if the vent to the tank is blocked/kinked. Get your mates bike alongside yours. Take the hose from the tank to the carb off and open the tap. Does yours flow as well as his? If not, it's blocked or the vent isn't working. That means the carb's float bowl isn't staying filled. When you stop, the trickle flow fills it and off you go again ... slowly draining it.
georgie
19th March 2008, 20:59
Now, who's going to break the news to him that his power band is perished and needs renewing.[/QUOTE]
Haha, and that they chew through powervalves quicker than a fat bastard eats pies
TCN
19th March 2008, 21:07
Thanks grub, so im guessing the fuel should run out of the tap in an even stream? I dont think the breather/vent pipe is blocked, coz i blew through it, and there was no resistance. I saw a thread about someone having low speed problems. They said that the low speed jet might be blocked, causing fuelling problems. Gah! ill give it a fang tomorow, see what happens...
yea haha ixion, very funny...:tugger:
Grub
19th March 2008, 21:42
Thanks grub, so im guessing the fuel should run out of the tap in an even stream? :
Each bike's different which is why I thought doing it alongside your mates bike would tell you. But yep, it should. It may not be the fault but hey, when you're scratching for a solution I'd try everything.
I know a mechanic that tried for 6 weeks to get an Aston Martin restoration job running properly. He finally found that the fuelcap vent hole had been painted over. It explains why he's bald I think. I've never forgotten the lesson.
TCN
19th March 2008, 22:05
it hasnt happened when im on the open road though. grrr, ill check that tomorow. ill also try the other solution these people had...
oh yea, another thing is that you can feel the bike surgeing while doing 100kph. you feel it accelerating then stop, then accelerate, etc. Its hard to notice, but it always does this. any ideas?
motorbyclist
19th March 2008, 23:48
So what, your saying i should be cruising in 2nd or 3rd gear, doing 10,000k? that just seems stupid.
it's a 2 stroke. if you don't rev it the oil doesn't burn off properly and the whole exhaust system blocks up with oil. it's a fact and that's why 2 strokes really aren't very sensible decisions for commuters (along with the nasty powerband - pretty weak on the rg150 but more of an issue on a 250 in the wet - and excessive fuel consumption)
you should be revving it - and yes you'll look like a dick to all the car drivers/pedestrians who don't know any better as they cough through the blue haze you leave everywhere you go.
Like a woman. Whatever you are doing is wrong, you've upset it somehow. Rape it.
bling awarded:clap:
it hasnt happened when im on the open road though. grrr, ill check that tomorow. ill also try the other solution these people had...
oh yea, another thing is that you can feel the bike surgeing while doing 100kph. you feel it accelerating then stop, then accelerate, etc. Its hard to notice, but it always does this. any ideas?
now that does sound like a fuel problem, but 2 strokes never have logical explanations... in my experience they can just be throwing temper-tantrums.
georgie
20th March 2008, 08:01
it's a 2 stroke. if you don't rev it the oil doesn't burn off properly and the whole exhaust system blocks up with oil. it's a fact and that's why 2 strokes really aren't very sensible decisions for commuters (along with the nasty powerband - pretty weak on the rg150 but more of an issue on a 250 in the wet - and excessive fuel consumption)
you should be revving it - and yes you'll look like a dick to all the car drivers/pedestrians who don't know any better as they cough through the blue haze you leave everywhere you go.
bling awarded:clap:
now that does sound like a fuel problem, but 2 strokes never have logical explanations... in my experience they can just be throwing temper-tantrums.
But thats the fun bit...
MSTRS
20th March 2008, 08:46
You've never owned a two smoker before.... Logic is irrelevant. .... Like a woman... Whatever you are doing is wrong, you've upset it somehow....Rape it.
How did you manage to live so long? I suppose the 'rule of thumb' has served you well :spanking:
James Deuce
20th March 2008, 10:41
NAh two strokes need to be ridden like you stole them. I had a good couple of years being irresponsible. My sprak plugs were in good nick, though doing a plug chop on an RG400 was a bit of a mission.
et al
20th March 2008, 11:33
Try running with the Fuel Tap in the "Reserve" position for a while (after making sure you have plenty of petrol in of course). If this "fixes" your problem then you know where to start looking.
McJim
20th March 2008, 11:44
Minimum revs while riding around on an RG150 should be about 8,000 NEVER ANY LESS! At this point you're in the transition stage with the powervalves so usually better to give the throttle a wee tickle to keep it smooth.
Every time you accelerate you need to kiss the redline before changing up. sitting on the edge of the powerband could be the cause of the "Surge" you are experiencing.
Str8 Jacket
20th March 2008, 11:47
If any of you lot have had enough of your "shitty" 2 smokers and want to sell it then let me know......
Please.
McJim
20th March 2008, 11:51
If any of you lot have had enough of your "shitty" 2 smokers and want to sell it then let me know......
Please.
No such thing as a shitty 2 smoker - they are all wonderful mysterious beings. :rofl:
Str8 Jacket
20th March 2008, 11:56
No such thing as a shitty 2 smoker - they are all wonderful mysterious beings. :rofl:
My point exactly. I love 2 smokers and would be happy to take one of anyone's hand should they have a problem with it.... *hint hint*
koba
20th March 2008, 11:58
Minimum revs while riding around on an RG150 should be about 8,000 NEVER ANY LESS! At this point you're in the transition stage with the powervalves so usually better to give the throttle a wee tickle to keep it smooth.
Every time you accelerate you need to kiss the redline before changing up. sitting on the edge of the powerband could be the cause of the "Surge" you are experiencing.
Perfect cruising revs on my rg.
Two strokes have more than just a slow and fast part of the rev range, at certain revs is a constant throttle is held they will run reall lumpy stuttery and horrible, at others they will humm along nicley.
Should be another smooth spot around 10,000 revs too.
Could be the plug. and irridium one worked good for me, less maintainence.
TCN
20th March 2008, 17:57
right, heres the deal from today. I was leaving work, and went to start the bike up, started first kick, idleing round 1,600k. I let it sit to warm up, while i put my gear on, and i noticed that it started to idle lower and lower. I went to hop on it, and it died. Some guy in front of me said it was flooded, and that he could smell it. (I couldnt smell shit, coz i work in a bakery) I kicked it for a bit, and gave the throttle a tweak, and it started. It blew smoke everywhere! cleared up after a few seconds, then went fine till I got home, and yes, I was revving it up in each gear, cruising in 3rd gear.
So yea...what would be causing this? Is this my problem? Could this be the "low speed jet" thing? :argh:
James Deuce
20th March 2008, 18:05
Seriously, it just sounds clogged to me. And pissy about it in a 2 smoker way. Like a chick when you've said something wrong, but you;ve no idea what it was.
Hit the motorway, give it death, try to stay legal.
speights_bud
20th March 2008, 18:24
I had an issue like this when running in the new piston in my rg, as i was instructed not to ride in the powerband for 500 km the plug fouled regularly. The plug ceramic can be damaged down inside the centre plug electrode causing the plug to short up inside itself.
if the problem hasn't fixed itself already then i'd try a new plug. i'm now running Iridium plugs in mine, and i'm changing it once a race day. After checking the colour/burn and condition of the electrodes it's either tossed out or bead/glass blasted and thoroughly cleaned before being put in a box ready to be swapped back in again
FJRider
20th March 2008, 18:24
1600 rpm is almost stopped.screw the idler screw in till about 2000 rpm. Find a road where you can keep it at / near redline (any gear) for about 20 minutes or more to give it a decent blow out. Check plug type for your model and use. A cooler plug may be needed for round town use. To get its Max horse (singular) power (???) YOU NEED REV'S. I'm guessing about 12,000 rpm. So stay around 8-11 thou. Then hang on and enjoy the ride. Go higher when your good enough.
kevfromcoro
20th March 2008, 18:41
JUST a word of advice needed........on a recent trip overseas i hired a RG150, but wasnt a 2 stroke,,,,,4 strocker....is this right or not...it definatly wasnt a 2 stroke
James Deuce
20th March 2008, 18:51
RG is Suzuki's designation for 2 stroke sports motorcycles.
TCN
20th March 2008, 18:54
Ill get a new plug then anyway, Would a platnium one be good, or iridium? Ill give it a blast then tomorow and see what happens. :devil2: Could all these problems be spark plug related? e.g. slowly flooding, dieing on me, etc?
Str8 Jacket
20th March 2008, 18:57
Ill get a new plug then anyway, Would a platnium one be good, or iridium? Ill give it a blast then tomorow and see what happens. :devil2: Could all these problems be spark plug related? e.g. slowly flooding, dieing on me, etc?
^Yep do that an d then take it for a fucken good rogering. itf;ll love yiu foir it!! :2thumbsup
Motig
20th March 2008, 19:35
Seriously the fact it died while warming up would be due to being overchoked wouldnt it? Specially if you take a while to get your gear on and dont turn your choke back a bit. Apart from that yes 2 strokes need a good blat regularly to clear all the unburned oil etc.
TCN
20th March 2008, 19:36
I did turn the choke back once it was going, thats when it idles at 1,600ish. With choke on it does about 2,000ish. Have any of you got exact names, and specifications for a spark plug? Coz im not entirely sure.
James Deuce
20th March 2008, 19:39
NGK: B8ES
<img src=http://vvv>
TCN
21st March 2008, 10:57
Isnt that just the stock spark plug? Speights_bud said hes running iridium plugs. Are those only good for racing or something?
James Deuce
21st March 2008, 11:03
That's the stock one. You can use that code to get the Iridium version from a bike shop. It's important to use the original as a reference so you buy the correct size.
oyster
21st March 2008, 13:43
Your Rg should go fine all day under any throttle conditions at 4 thousand revs. B8 plug is fine for cruising around. The most common cause of your symptoms is fuel delivery / float level/ pilot jet blockage/ water in the fuel.
To check fuel delivery make sure the fuel line AT THE CARB runs freely into a container for at least a minute. Any reductioin in flow shows an obstruction or cap breathing problem.
Take the needle jet out and clean behind it, often a chip of rubber from the hose can be found in there, tho mostly this causes flooding.
I recently tried some quite large but cheap car type fuel filters from Repco.
Unbelievable, but after a short while they just closed right up and wouldn't flow more than a drop. Apparently designed for pressure systems as in cars (5psi etc) no good for gravity feed on bikes. So I use a little conical Wix brand one now. Very good.
Float level 6-8 mm from the corner of the float to the face of the bowl CRITICAL
Water gets in thru the filler cap very easily on these bikes. Gives untold greif.
Thats why race ones on trailers are usualy taped over for transport in case it rains on the way.
Pilot jets block very easily. clean it out. Difficult as it's blind and very small.
Your surging is cos the power valve is opening and closing around that point.Some bikes worse than others depending on PV condition and calibration.
Forget all that "give it death" crap, these bikes are a pleasure to cruise around on at moderate revs.
Temp gauge crap, get a $33 one from Dick Smith "Slimline" and mount the sender on the power valve box. They work great.
James Deuce
21st March 2008, 14:53
Your Rg should go fine all day under any throttle conditions at 4 thousand revs.
So you'll go pick him up when he has a cold seizure as a result of that advice then?
TCN
21st March 2008, 15:26
im now cruising in 3rd, doin bout 7,000 and it seems fine. The most likely thing on that list would be the pilot jet being clogged, or the float height not adjusted properly.
The temp guage does work, i think that its just the thermostat problem the RG's have. Some of them are faulty, and need to be replaced. Either that, or blank off the radiator.
PLUS: Does anyone have a full service manual that they could send me, or that i could buy off them! Id really like one.
speights_bud
21st March 2008, 17:03
Isnt that just the stock spark plug? Speights_bud said hes running iridium plugs. Are those only good for racing or something?
They are good for both road and racing, but like Jim2 said you'll need the standard one to reference off of. I thikn i'm paying about $23 or something per iridium plug or something, not entirely sure
MDR2
24th March 2008, 17:32
I have a scanned manual I could e-mail to you if you want.
speights_bud
24th March 2008, 19:31
Any chance of e-mailing a copy my way?:innocent:
I have most of a shop manual, but photocopying it anymore would make it impossible to read. PM Meekey Mouse if you still need one.
MDR2
24th March 2008, 19:44
You'll have to PM me an e-mail address, it's 5meg in size and PDF format.
TCN
25th March 2008, 19:44
Yet another confusing problem is added to this saga! I just been giving it a blat out on the road, and i came to the end of the road where i then turned and parked up. As i stopped, the bike was constantly revving at 4,000rpm. The twist throttle was closed, so no worryies there. After a bit of this it died (yet again!) and wouldnt start. I put the fuel tap to the Reserve, and it started fine. (???) I let it sit at home, and when i was putting it away, i wanted to see if it would start on Main fuel. It started first kick. Im TOTALLY baffled by this.
motorbyclist
26th March 2008, 23:47
well if you simply put it in mains and then kicked of course it would start. the carburetor bowls hold a fairly large amount of fuel. some bikes will last as long as 5 minute with the fuel turned off!
the revving sounds like a carby problem though... did you ever look into the tank to see how much fuel was in there?
FruitLooPs
27th March 2008, 09:12
The RG's firstly redline at 12.5 and power will start topping out just before that.
Secondly you CAN run them at lowish revs and expect them not to foul. Using TTS anyhow. I can wobble my way to work at 5k rpm if i wanted day in day out it's just no fun.
For cruising 7-8k rpm is good the valves should open about 8.100rpm. I've had surging on my RG highway riding, it's just a flatspot in the power you happen to hit when doing 100km/hr (which is 120 on the speedo btw, they're out by *heaps*).
My plug fouled on me twice in 2 days when I wasn't using TTS oil, and it has never fouled on me in 2 years while using it. :niceone:
When it fouls it'll just run like a bag of crap, at least mine would from idle and it might get off the line just to start droning and roll to a halt stalled - maybe 10 kicks later it'll go, more likely than not you'll need another plug.
But the surging, especially as you close throttle definitely sounds fuel related. Check lines, tap and carb thoroughly mate. Thats exactly what an RG will do before running outta gas. Oh yeah, if you're idling just as its running out of gas the revs will climb as it leans out I guess. All I know is they rise before shitting out, another way to tell if you're at the lights and suspect gas is short.
Get a temp gauge, the ones on the bike won't ever see their way past halfway I reckon. The slimline ones are good, easy to mount and give you a reliable baseline - also lets you know when the bikes properly warm unlike estimating with the silly factory gauge or time.
Sketchy_Racer
27th March 2008, 19:30
Wow, some people really have no idea about modern(ish) 2 strokes...
First off, EVERYTHING Oyster has said, is correct. That man knows RG's better than ANY one else here does.
Secondly, before trying to diagnose a problem, make sure you have at least a half full tank of fuel.. amount of times people have asked me too check out their bikes thinking something is wrong, and it just turns out to be running out of fuel....
From your original post, it sounds like you just fouled a plug. get a NGK BR8 (I think) They're the cheap ones. Don't waste your money on an iridium plug on these...
Reason for fouling, if it's anythink like my old KRR150 (I have a RG now) I had to blank off half my radiator to get the temp up to 50 degrees.. which is still cooooold. 55-60 degrees would be a nice operating temp.
Power valves also play havc in these bikes, but there are a few options as to what you can do about them!
Good luck!
speights_bud
27th March 2008, 20:19
Can you pick up the temp gauges from dick smith or similar? how much? been thinking about one for the race bike.
Sketchy Racer is right with the RG's petrol tanks, they are deceptively shallow and may look like they have lots of fuel but are rather rather empty on the inside :whistle:
My RG is running a NGK BR9EIX (Thats the iridium one) But i am constantly Raping it which means it goes fine :D
quallman1234
27th March 2008, 21:13
http://zballantine.com/RG150/
Ta da!!!! (Whole RG manual minus the carb section what is ironic isn't it!)
Check ya Fuel Line.
TCN
27th March 2008, 22:25
ok, i got a new fuel line and filter (much better flow than origonal) Ill fill it when i have time and money, and get a new spark plug soon, also when i have extra money. My mates RG has only one or two sections of the radiator open, and his temp gauge works. Is it the temp guage failing, or is the bike not actually warming up, due to thremostat probs? All my radiator is open btw.
i knew i should of gotta FXR...haha! :devil2:
Oh yea, thats where i got my manual...most of it. AARGG!
speights_bud
28th March 2008, 06:13
If you want your temp gauge to work, assuming its getting warm enough to give a reading you should make sure you have a goood bettery in it, it'll make the whole dash and engine run better :cool:
FruitLooPs
28th March 2008, 09:15
Yeah if the batteries a dud you can get sporadic powervalve actuation and tachometer crazyness too.
I've never had to cover up the radiator at all on my RG, just give it time to warm up a bit or ride it like a nana til its up to temp.
DSE did sell the slimline thermometers but I tried to get one for my old gsxr and they reckoned stopped making 'em. I was at Oysters the other day and spied a few hanging up on the wall in packets.
Give him a PM if you can't find one, sure he could sort you :)
and TCN, RG's are way more fun to wring out than silly FXR's! Just put decent synth oil in the thing whatever you do, sure it costs - but so does a seize.
I've seen the graveyard of parts from RG's at oysters place, has a bit of everything. Some rods are mashed that they're barely identifiable as a rod. Others with heavily ovaled big ends etc. Change the trans fluid to something decent every once in a while too.
oyster
29th March 2008, 20:58
I forgot a few regular items, good to see Sketchy and Frootloops picked them up
1) Run PLENTY of fuel. When switched to "ON" they will run out of fuel when it looks like there's heaps in there. Even worse in racing when surging comes into the equation. (the loop at Teretonga is a classic, it can take half a tank full and put it on the wrong side away from the tap, while on half throttle the carb is still screamin for it!)
2) TTS is a must
3) Plenty of volts in the battery
4) The wee dick Smith gauge should read 54deg, 90% of the time
TCN
29th March 2008, 21:20
Hey guys, thanks for the help.
Well, its pissing down here so i havnt done anything yet haha. The batteries fine, i got a new one when i bought it. The guy we bought it off gave us a full tank of oil, and its blue in colour. Ive got a bottle of Fuchs Silkoline 2T Comp Plus oil, to put in when its empty. Something like that. :cool:
Where should the temp recording sensor be put? Or is it just a gauge replacement?
MDR2
30th March 2008, 08:19
On the powervalve box from memory. But wiser people might have a better place for it.
I think there seriously needs to be a sticky thread for the rg and it's characteristics. :)
tommorth
30th March 2008, 08:28
i have a br9iex i tryed the 8 and it was better around town more midrange but crap up top so went back to the 9 .tts is good stuff bike will happily tootle along at 4k through traffic
Racey Rider
30th March 2008, 09:08
.... Check plug type for your model and use. A cooler plug may be needed for round town use. ....
Quite a range of advise in this thread, but this above bit about cooler plugs I don't agree with.
I would use a cooler plug when racing. The hot engine keeps the plug clean, and the cooler plug helps to keep the top of piston cooler (so they say, never stuck my finger in there myself to check).
One might use a Hotter plug to putt around town. Slow going on a two stroke can (in some cases) cause carbon buildup on the plug tip, thus affecting the spark. the hotter plug would keep this carbon/oil burnt off, BUT, in a higher rev/heat situation can melt a hole in the top of your piston. (Not a good look).
My take on the cutting out problem is also the fuel vent.
Blocked vent creates a vacuum in the fuel tank, not allowing the fuel to flow fast enough to carb. Try riding (carefully*) with the fuel cap open to prove or disprove this theory.
it hasnt happened when im on the open road though. grrr, ill check that tomorow.
oh yea, another thing is that you can feel the bike surgeing while doing 100kph. you feel it accelerating then stop, then accelerate, etc. Its hard to notice, but it always does this. any ideas?
Surging: Possibly running lean due to fuel not flowing properly from the tank?
Is this problem more evident when the fuel tank is full?
The less 'air' space in the tank means it vacuums quicker, thus creating the problem more often.
Racey
* Warning: riding with fuel cap open is classed as 'Risky' behavior, and not to be encouraged on a daily bases.
speights_bud
30th March 2008, 09:18
[COLOR="Blue"]Quite a range of advise in this thread, but this above bit about cooler plugs I don't agree with.
I would use a cooler plug when racing. The hot engine keeps the plug clean, and the cooler plug helps to keep the top of piston cooler (so they say, never stuck my finger in there myself to check).
One might use a Hotter plug to putt around town. Slow going on a two stroke can (in some cases) cause carbon buildup on the plug tip, thus affecting the spark. the hotter plug would keep this carbon/oil burnt off, BUT, in a higher rev/heat situation can melt a hole in the top of your piston. (Not a good look).
I agree with the cooler plug for racing conditions, this is what i'm running in my RG which i am only riding on the track. Wasp27's keeping an eye on how my engines running for me and he knows a thing or two about performance engines.
Sketchy_Racer
30th March 2008, 10:45
Surging: Possibly running lean due to fuel not flowing properly from the tank?
The RG's surge at about 100kph (indicated 120). This is because the motor sits in the power range where the power valves are just opening and if they open and your not wringing it's neck, the bike slows down till the close again, then it accelerates again, they start opening...... So on so on.
FilthyLuka
30th March 2008, 11:17
On the powervalve box from memory. But wiser people might have a better place for it.
I think there seriously needs to be a sticky thread for the rg and it's characteristics. :)
Make one and ill stick it up, the RG150 threads are more than common so a place for a bunch of info would be good
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