Motorcyclist dead in Eskdale Rd Glenfield (21 March)

[WelshWizard]

Just heard about this crash, hope its not another KBer

The person died in a motorcycle accident on Eskdale Road in Glenfield, and police said no other vehicles were involved in the crash.

NZPA
http://www.tv3.co.nz/FourdieinhorrificSouthAucklandheadoncrash/tabid/209/articleID/50083/cat/87/Default.aspx

link to what little is on TV3 about it

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/event/story.cfm?c_id=1500989&objectid=10499418
The Herald

[Kittyhawk]

Has the name of the rider been released? Just hope its not one of the bikers I know out that way..

Sad to see another biker lost...condolences to family and friends R.I.P fellow rider.

[Kittyhawk]

please read this thread first...... as to who the bike actually belonged to.
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=68731

He then got a phone call on page 3 from the police to say it was recovered after a accident.

Thank you my sweet ;)

[WelshWizard]

We will have to wait and see if he is the one who stole it or not.

[Winter]

Name of the rider has been released, can be found at the bottom of this article: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10499553&pnum=2

[The Pastor]

I think it was reported as being a stolen bike. prick got what he deserved if it was stolen.

If its not true that it was a stolen bike, then it is sad news :(

[SixPackBack]

Got what he deserved?...are we sure about that?....stealing a bike is worth the death penalty-I think not!

[sAsLEX]

Got what he deserved?...are we sure about that?....stealing a bike is worth the death penalty-I think not!

Its worth an arm, rather literally , in some countries.

Without thieves the world would be a better place.

[Grumpy Gnomb]

Agree no body deserves to die as a result of an accident

[YellowDog]

Yup, this hapenned just up the road from me. Anyone dying will result in a sad loss for someone. I don't think the guy's Mum deserved this for not bringing her child up well enough!

Perhaps we should have a health warning sticker made for our bikes "Stealing this bike may result in serious injury or even death"

Not good. RIP thief (if that's who it is).

[dipshit]

Good. One less wanker around.

[Daffyd]

I certainly won't be shedding any tears for him.

[jrandom]

Good.

According to yesterday's Dom Post, he had kids.

I'm sure that, in time, they'll agree with you that the fact that their dad once nicked a motorcycle means that they're much better off without him.

I guess he took the maxim of "ride it like you stole it" a little too literally. May the sorry bastard rest in peace.

I wonder, dipshit, whether the realisation that you're a ghastly unlovable pustule of a man ever keeps you awake at night...

[dipshit]

According to yesterday's Dom Post, he had kids.

I'm sure that, in time, they'll agree with you that the fact that their dad once nicked a motorcycle means that they're much better off without him.


:violin:

Like I could give a fuck?

[Disco Dan]

Good - that there is one less bike thief, although sadly he was probably replaced by two more even better ones... what with increasing population and all that jazz.

Just a shame it was death that finally stopped him from stealing any more bikes - so many other options.

I can sit here and say - who are we to be judge and jury and make comment on this man? ...but I also sit here thinking that if caught someone halfway through stealing my bike, I dread to think of the outcome. All jokes aside regarding ways of retaliation, what would you actually do in that situation? I can see myself getting into a punch up or surprising the poor person with a heavy blunt object before ringing for the police. On the other hand, if alcohol was involved I can see things getting very nasty... with visions of medieval 'removal of hand' techniques being at the forefront.

[ElCoyote]

Good - that there is one less bike thief, although sadly he was probably replaced by two more even better ones... what with increasing population and all that jazz.

Just a shame it was death that finally stopped him from stealing any more bikes - so many other options.

I can sit here and say - who are we to be judge and jury and make comment on this man? ...but I also sit here thinking that if caught someone halfway through stealing my bike, I dread to think of the outcome. All jokes aside regarding ways of retaliation, what would you actually do in that situation? I can see myself getting into a punch up or surprising the poor person with a heavy blunt object before ringing for the police. On the other hand, if alcohol was involved I can see things getting very nasty... with visions of medieval 'removal of hand' techniques being at the forefront.

+1 Very balanced reply, I guess the bike comes second only to the family :niceone:

[Kickaha]

According to yesterday's Dom Post, he had kids.

I'm sure that, in time, they'll agree with you that the fact that their dad once nicked a motorcycle means that they're much better off without him.



Maybe without him they won't grow up to be thieving shitheads like he was,
I might have sympathy for the kids but I don't have any for him

[Katman]

Got what he deserved?...are we sure about that?....stealing a bike is worth the death penalty-I think not!

If someone steals my bike and proceeds to throw it down the road, the fucker better hope that they die in the accident.

[Richard Mc F]

200 kmh into a brickwall ....pure darwin

[Daffyd]

with visions of medieval 'removal of hand' techniques being at the forefront.


Still being practised in Muslim countries. I have seen a video of a 7y/o boy being held down and his arm run over by a HiLux for stealing a piece of bread because he hadn't eaten for days.

[YellowDog]

Good - that there is one less bike thief, although sadly he was probably replaced by two more even better ones... what with increasing population and all that jazz.

Just a shame it was death that finally stopped him from stealing any more bikes - so many other options.

I can sit here and say - who are we to be judge and jury and make comment on this man? ...but I also sit here thinking that if caught someone halfway through stealing my bike, I dread to think of the outcome. All jokes aside regarding ways of retaliation, what would you actually do in that situation? I can see myself getting into a punch up or surprising the poor person with a heavy blunt object before ringing for the police. On the other hand, if alcohol was involved I can see things getting very nasty... with visions of medieval 'removal of hand' techniques being at the forefront.
Yes, if you caught someone stealing your pride and joy (and love of your life). Knee jerk emotion would overtake rhyme or reason.

One point to make about young men stealing bikes is that, unlike alcohol abuse, most do eventually grow out of it with age and facing the consequenses of their actions.

A better result would have been this guy getting caught and punnished. Maybe there would be a chance of his kids not becoming thiefs also.

[SixPackBack]

:violin:

Like I could give a fuck?

Jrandom is right, you really are a vile man.

[BAD DAD]

Thing to remember is that when someone decides to steal your motorcycle, they aren't just nicking some replaceable object, that bike is more often than not purchased after many hours, or even years of personal sacrifice. We aren't all born with a gob full of silver spoons and no bike thief is qualified to decide wether he deserves to tax the sweat off your brow because he lacks the personal fortitude. Even if the bike owner was drowning in money, noone should be thieving his gear.

[dmw]

I knew Grim and he had only had the bike for two days and someone was talking about what he paid for it so he did not steal it, he left behind a partner, a one year old child and a lot of very sad friends.

[Bikernereid]

I hate people who steal more than so many other criminals but I do not think he deserved to die. It is the people he left behind that will be suffering, not him. He deserved to be punished properly.

Just glad that it wasn't a KBer.

[Gubb]

I knew Grim and he had only had the bike for two days and someone was talking about what he paid for it so he did not steal it, he left behind a partner, a one year old child and a lot of very sad friends.

The Police, the Media, and the Evidence seem to think otherwise.

[jrandom]

I knew Grim and he had only had the bike for two days and someone was talking about what he paid for it so he did not steal it, he left behind a partner, a one year old child and a lot of very sad friends.

The bike in question was stolen on 4 March (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=68731).

I guess it's entirely possible that the dead guy bought it in good faith, in which case quite a few folk on this thread will need to eat their words.

[jrandom]

The Police, the Media, and the Evidence seem to think otherwise.

Absolute rubbish. The bike was stolen, he was riding it. That does not mean that he stole it himself. He may have done, but then again, he may have just been a dumbarse and bought a bike off someone without checking its rego.

The Police have simply said that they're investigating to see whether there's any link between the rider and the theft.

[Grahameeboy]

The bike in question was stolen on 4 March (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=68731).

I guess it's entirely possible that the dead guy bought it in good faith, in which case quite a few folk on this thread will need to eat their words.

I guess it is a natural assumption that as the bike was stolen quite recently that the rider was the thief so if they are wrong then it was an easy mistake to make.

However, regardless, someone is dead which is the key thing...we don't know him, we do know his circirmstances...

[YellowDog]

Police the media and the evidence are not always right however more likely, in an attept to appear respectable friends would have been lead to believe that the bike was legit.

Like I have already said, such offenders can often grow out of such behaviour. Particularly if he has a young family. A better result than this waste of life would have been to get caught and face a punishment.

[Steam]

... and a lot of very sad friends.
So you'd be one of these guys then?



...tribute notes have been tagged and spray-painted on the roadside and nearby lamp-posts and street signs...
... four mourners had been arrested ....
"... it's degenerated into loutish, offensive, disorderly, intoxicated behaviour."
People gathering and drinking at the site had blocked the footpath, intimidating residents...
...a man was arrested for breaching his bail after police broke up the gathering...
The group then moved to a nearby home and a party was broken up which ended in three disorder-related arrests.


Sad friends perhaps.
Stupid friends certainly.

[Bikernereid]

+1

It is possible to buy bikes and cars only to find out later that they are not legit!

And yes it is possible treat offenders and for them not to reoffend again!!


Police the media and the evidence are not always right however more likely, in an attept to appear respectable friends would have been lead to believe that the bike was legit.

Like I have already said, such offenders can often grow out of such behaviour. Particularly if he has a young family. A better result than this waste of life would have been to get caught and face a punishment.

[Grahameeboy]

So you'd be one of these guys then?



...tribute notes have been tagged and spray-painted on the roadside and nearby lamp-posts and street signs...


... four mourners had been arrested ....


"... it's degenerated into loutish, offensive, disorderly, intoxicated behaviour."


People gathering and drinking at the site had blocked the footpath, intimidating residents...


...a man was arrested for breaching his bail after police broke up the gathering...


The group then moved to a nearby home and a party was broken up which ended in three disorder-related arrests.

Sad friends perhaps.
Stupid friends certainly.

Just the people he mixed with...all very sad regardless of stupidity...

[dmw]

No I am 45 and a bit past that my girls have known him for about six years and he has been a close fiend of the family, I have been up to where he was killed and I think the article is slightly over exagerated there is people up there haveing a few drinks and thinking of him yes but the times I have been up they have not been badly behaved, I do not see anything wrong with taking time out to have a drink to mourn the death of a close freind. The party got out of hand with the arrival of gate crashes that no one knew until then it was a pretty quite affair, I dropped the girls off up there and went in and had a drink myself and all was good.

[SixPackBack]

So you'd be one of these guys then?



...tribute notes have been tagged and spray-painted on the roadside and nearby lamp-posts and street signs...


... four mourners had been arrested ....


"... it's degenerated into loutish, offensive, disorderly, intoxicated behaviour."


People gathering and drinking at the site had blocked the footpath, intimidating residents...


...a man was arrested for breaching his bail after police broke up the gathering...


The group then moved to a nearby home and a party was broken up which ended in three disorder-related arrests.

Sad friends perhaps.
Stupid friends certainly.

Possibly Steam, just as likely a mix of sadness and anger. I can attest to folk behaving in a very odd manner after a death.....it does not always bring out the best.

[SixPackBack]

No I am 45 and a bit past that my girls have known him for about six years and he has been a close fiend of the family, I have been up to where he was killed and I think the article is slightly over exagerated there is people up there haveing a few drinks and thinking of him yes but the times I have been up they have not been badly behaved, I do not see anything wrong with taking time out to have a drink to mourn the death of a close freind. The party got out of hand with the arrival of gate crashes that no one knew until then it was a pretty quite affair, I dropped the girls off up there and went in and had a drink myself and all was good.

Regards to the family and friends dmw. Ignore the tossers on KB.

[Bikernereid]

I would have thought that people would by now realise that newpapers need to sell and therefore they like to 'spice' things up to get something sensational to sell.

I do not see anything wrong with people going to celebrate the life of a lost friend. My sympathies are with you and all that knew him.


No I am 45 and a bit past that my girls have known him for about six years and he has been a close fiend of the family, I have been up to where he was killed and I think the article is slightly over exagerated there is people up there haveing a few drinks and thinking of him yes but the times I have been up they have not been badly behaved, I do not see anything wrong with taking time out to have a drink to mourn the death of a close freind. The party got out of hand with the arrival of gate crashes that no one knew until then it was a pretty quite affair, I dropped the girls off up there and went in and had a drink myself and all was good.

[Nasty]

I knew Grim and he had only had the bike for two days and someone was talking about what he paid for it so he did not steal it, he left behind a partner, a one year old child and a lot of very sad friends.

Its a terrible thing when people buy stolen goods .... that is why the safety checks like VIR etc are in place ... it is always sad when someone ends up dead from mistakes that are made ... and even worse when they leave behind young ones to live with the legacy :(

[dipshit]

Jrandom is right, you really are a vile man.

Stop being a PC sissy. Why should I give a flying fuck for criminals and there loser friends and families?

Losers usually breed more losers.

[Bikernereid]

People in glass houses should not throw stones!


Stop being a PC sissy. Why should I give a flying fuck for criminals and there loser friends and families?

Losers usually bred more losers.

[Quasievil]

KB members can steal bikes to.


we all make dum mistakes, no one need pay their life for it, I would be dead 10 times over if I payed for my mistakes in death, particulary in the 80's

RIP

[MIXONE]

Stop being a PC sissy. Why should I give a flying fuck for criminals and there loser friends and families?

Losers usually breed more losers.

Totally over the top comment.Have you had a bike stolen?I've lost 2 and both times while I would have been happy to run the thieving scum off the road there is no way I wanted them dead or their innocent family or friends hurt in any way.
I think your attitude is slightly out of wack and need an adjustment.

[Quasievil]

Losers usually breed more losers.

youre evidence of that I suspect

[YellowDog]

youre evidence of that I suspect
Sadly one of those with a 'half empty' glass.

[dipshit]

youre evidence of that I suspect

Talk to the police about this. They will tell you how they find they deal with the same familys over and over again and with each new set of offspring.

Recently they were floating the idea of taking children away from such loser families to break the cycle.

Personally I wouldn't mind if they introduced the 'three strikers and you're out' policy so all the losers can end up in prison camps.

I work very hard for what little I have. I honestly do not give a flying fuck for the criminals and the criminal culture in NZ.

[YellowDog]

Talk to the police about this. They will tell you how they find they deal with the same familys over and over again and with each new set of offspring.

Recently they were floating the idea of taking children away from such loser families to break the cycle.

Personally I wouldn't mind if they introduced the 'three strikers and you're out' policy so all the losers can end up in prison camps.

I work very hard for what little I have. I honestly do not give a flying fuck for the criminals and the criminal culture in NZ.
Mr Shit, or can I call you Dip?

Your point is taken and understood. Most on KB however consider it to be too harsh and lacking in basic humanity.

Have you never done anything bad or illegal in your younger years. May be something you regretted doing? It's called growing up and most grow out of bad behaviour, which is why the bad people of NZ are in the minority.

Why don't you think of the worst thing you have ever done and then consider whether you deserved to die for it. Also consider whether your friends and family deserved to have someone they cared about taken from their lives in this way?

IMO - You are over the top on this one.

YD

PS You have a very nice looking SV.

[Bikernereid]

+1 couldn't agree more. Such words of wisdom should be read, considered and if they give you a different perspective which may change your opinion, even better.


Mr Shit, or can I call you Dip?

Your point is taken and understood. Most on KB however consider it to be too harsh and lacking in basic humanity.

Have you never done anything bad or illegal in your younger years. May be something you regretted doing? It's called growing up and most grow out of bad behaviour, which is why the bad people of NZ are in the minority.

Why don't you think of the worst thing you have ever done and then consider whether you deserved to die for it. Also consider whether your friends and family deserved to have someone they cared about taken from their lives in this way?

IMO - You are over the top on this one.

YD

PS You have a very nice looking SV.

[Quasievil]

Talk to the police about this. They will tell you how they find they deal with the same familys over and over again and with each new set of offspring.

Recently they were floating the idea of taking children away from such loser families to break the cycle.

Personally I wouldn't mind if they introduced the 'three strikers and you're out' policy so all the losers can end up in prison camps.

I work very hard for what little I have. I honestly do not give a flying fuck for the criminals and the criminal culture in NZ.

yeah I agree with three strikes etc.
But Its sad to pleased on the death of anyone for only stealing a bike, besides, what if it was a Honda?
I dont know the details or background of the case or the person, might just be some confused young man (there is plenty of them) he might have grwon up to be a real asset to society, who knows.

[jrandom]

Losers usually breed more losers.

I find it interesting that it's almost always people with particularly mediocre lives whom one finds making that statement.

[dipshit]

Have you never done anything bad or illegal in your younger years.


Well I have never been arrested for anything and have nothing of a police record. You see, I grew up in a family environment that installed in me in a few basic things. i.e. Do not fuck with other people's stuff. Once I see someone else break these simple principles, then I lose any respect for them.



May be something you regretted doing? It's called growing up and most grow out of bad behaviour, which is why the bad people of NZ are in the minority.


A culture that thinks "it's okay, they will grow out of it in time" is half the problem.





PS You have a very nice looking SV.

Thanks. Which is partly why I am very sincere that I would be highly fucked off if some cunt nicked it. If said thief or his mate he sold it to, wiped themselves out on it - would I feel sympathetic... no. Would I feel sympathy for the loser's family for their loss... no.

[riffer]

No evidence the feller who crashed had stolen the bike.

It would be wise to presume innocence on his behalf until otherwise proven.

Regardless of the circumstances someone is dead, a bike is trashed and a family mourns.

Some of you guys need to get a life.

[Colapop]

I dunno about no evidence. Guilty by association - his 'friends' are proving what an upstanding member of the community he was... Stuff (http://www.stuff.co.nz/4450291a10.html)

[dmw]

Once again he did not steal the bike it was the second day he owned it. his only mistafe was not checking it out properly.

[ManDownUnder]

Dipshit - a name hard earned. Well done.

It's only a f'n bike! (Yes, I meant every word of that). The life of a theif is worth untold more than the value of a single bike. He did bad... probably more than once. I don't want him on the streets, but I also don't want the guy dead.

WTF are 1/2 of you guys on?

[dmw]

They have stated that four people were arrested at the crash site, 1 was arrested there for breach of bail as they said he was drinking he was later releaed as they could not prove he was drinking, the other three were arrested at the party the same day and they did not even know grim but head heard there was a party and just turned up. My kids where there when the police turned up at the crash site and only one person was arrested, if they are behaving so bad why are the surround neighbours providing recylcing bins and letting them park on their property to keep the area safer.

[avenger]

No Way - I knew Graham from way back at intermediate.
Just got a call from a mate to be told -

Very Sad to hear this.:weep:

[dipshit]

Once again he did not steal the bike it was the second day he owned it. his only mistafe was not checking it out properly.

Of course his family will say "he just brought it with cash a couple of days ago" :whistle:

Even receiving stolen property is a criminal offence last time I checked.

The matter is under investigation by the police to see if anyone else was involved.

[dipshit]

It's only a f'n bike! (Yes, I meant every word of that). The life of a theif is worth untold more than the value of a single bike. He did bad... probably more than once. I don't want him on the streets, but I also don't want the guy dead.


Any sympathy I would feel, would be greatly outweighed by the pissed off feelings of having my bike stolen.

What exactly is the problem you fuckwits have with that? Were you little crims yourselves at one time? Are your kids little shits and are always in trouble with the law? Is this why you find such an attitude shocking?

[Ixion]

Of course his family will say "he just brought it with cash a couple of days ago" :whistle:

Even receiving stolen property is a criminal offence last time I checked.

The matter is under investigation by the police to see if anyone else was involved.

Bit harsh. Most motorcycle sales are for cash. And obviously all at some time are "a few days ago". The police will naturally check out to see if the purchase was bonafide. But there is no reason at this stage to suppose it was not.

Receiving stolen property is not the same as buying in good faith property that later turns out to be stolen. That is no offence.

[marty]

Once again he did not steal the bike it was the second day he owned it. his only mistafe was not checking it out properly.

actually he made plenty of mistafes. together, they took his life.

maybe if he have have thought about some consequences of his actions prior to doing them he would still be able to be with his partner and child, but no, disqualified - (did he even ever have a bike licence?), running from the cops, (or not as the case appears to be), 4am, and i doubt if that's the last of the contributing factors, and he's making a hole in a fence somewhere.

[Nasty]

...if they are behaving so bad why are the surround neighbours providing recylcing bins and letting them park on their property to keep the area safer.

Cos the neighbours don't want their neighbourhood looking like shit or being treated that way ... putting out bins for recycling is a good foresight for them .. .and letting people park safely is just common sense.

[SixPackBack]

Well I have never been arrested for anything and have nothing of a police record. You see, I grew up in a family environment that installed in me in a few basic things. i.e. Do not fuck with other people's stuff. Once I see someone else break these simple principles, then I lose any respect for them.

Losing respect and wishing someone dead are very different concepts. I would suggest your up bringing was [inspite of what you may think] delusional, and just plain evil. Does you family own rocking chairs?


................

[dipshit]

Losing respect and wishing someone dead are very different concepts.

Wanting to kill someone and not giving a shit if they managed to kill themselves are two different things also.





I would suggest your up bringing was [inspite of what you may think] delusional, and just plain evil. Does you family own rocking chairs?


I may live in the south... bit I ain't that far south. You are thinking of people that live south of Gore.

But anyways... you think "do not fuck with other people's stuff" is a strange and radical notion? You didn't happen to grow up in a family of bogens did you?

[ElCoyote]

Got what he deserved?...are we sure about that?....stealing a bike is worth the death penalty-I think not!

Obviously not your bike then :mad::mad::mad:

[ElCoyote]

The bike in question was stolen on 4 March (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=68731).

I guess it's entirely possible that the dead guy bought it in good faith, in which case quite a few folk on this thread will need to eat their words.


It is reported that after passing a Police car with lights flashing (unrelated to him) he thought he was being pursued. Guilty concience perchance?

[ElCoyote]

And yes it is possible treat offenders and for them not to reoffend again!!


May I please enrol Tame Iti and Dean Wickliffe in your school, oh and David Benson Pope also :nono:

[ElCoyote]

Regards to the family and friends dmw. Ignore the tossers on KB.

Yourself included I presume, because I do

[ElCoyote]

Once again he did not steal the bike it was the second day he owned it. his only mistafe was not checking it out properly.

Did he have a license?

[ElCoyote]

Totally over the top comment.Have you had a bike stolen?I've lost 2 and both times while I would have been happy to run the thieving scum off the road there is no way I wanted them dead or their innocent family or friends hurt in any way.
I think your attitude is slightly out of wack and need an adjustment.

Living in Porirua you are obviously desensitised to crime and it's consequences to the victims.

[MIXONE]

Living in Porirua you are obviously desensitised to crime and it's consequences to the victims.

Actually I live very close to the Police College so crime is nonexistant around here:Police::shit::niceone:
I think you should shift to Iran or somewhere that the locals all think like you.Shit if they don't agree with you just cut their tongues off.

[ElCoyote]

Actually I live very close to the Police College so crime is nonexistant around here:Police::shit::niceone:
I think you should shift to Iran or somewhere that the locals all think like you.Shit if they don't agree with you just cut their tongues off.

Hehe tantamount to wishing the little cunt on a stolen bike dead. Hyprocrisy isn't dead after all.

[MIXONE]

Hehe tantamount to wishing the little cunt on a stolen bike dead. Hyprocrisy isn't dead after all.

Piss taking isn't either.The web just doesn't do sarcasm well.

[Unit]

Agree no body deserves to die as a result of an accident
yea, puts the acc levy up for the rest of us

[ElCoyote]

Piss taking isn't either.The web just doesn't do sarcasm well.

Probably just as well that I do then...................

[onearmedbandit]

It is reported that after passing a Police car with lights flashing (unrelated to him) he thought he was being pursued. Guilty concience perchance?

He thought he was being pursued? Is this what he said to the paramedics as he was dying? Or is this just another bullshit twisted report in the media?

[scumdog]

According to yesterday's Dom Post, he had kids.

I'm sure that, in time, they'll agree with you that the fact that their dad once nicked a motorcycle means that they're much better off without him.

...

At least no 'bad habits' will be passed on I guess......

[Grub]

He thought he was being pursued? Is this what he said to the paramedics as he was dying? Or is this just another bullshit twisted report in the media?

I think if you read the Stuff article, the police say that witnesses heard the bike take off as the police car was going the other way (having decided not to purse him as they were going to a burglary). The Police then say maybe he was reacting to a fear of being pursued.

The article as stated was reasonably fair and clear that it was just an assumption. It pays to do the research.

What has thrown a revealing light on the whole affair is the reaction of the "mourners" and the subsequent arrests thereof.

[Wingnut]

I see that a few people have been arrested at the site of the accident.(Drunken disorderly or something similar) Was just on the news.

[scumdog]

A better result would have been this guy getting caught and punnished. Maybe there would be a chance of his kids not becoming thiefs also.

This IS New Zealand you're talking about.

Thieves don't get punished in New Zealand.

[spudchucka]

I guess it is a natural assumption that as the bike was stolen quite recently that the rider was the thief so if they are wrong then it was an easy mistake to make.

Its called the doctrine of recent possession and is basically a legal assumption that a person found in possession of very recently stolen goods is likely to be either the thief or a guilty receiver.

[Grahameeboy]

Its called the doctrine of recent possession and is basically a legal assumption that a person found in possession of very recently stolen goods is likely to be either the thief or a guilty receiver.

Really...have some more Easter Egg Sir:msn-wink:

[Finn]

This thread has hit a brick wall.

[roy.nz]

Lets just drop this and let him R.I.P

[Magua]

A lot of us seem very quick to jump to conclusions when the full story is yet to be told.

[EFFBEE]

Agree that too many low lifes (lives?) get away with minor stuff. they then graduate to bike and car thieving, then robbery - before you know it they have raped and murdered someone and get out in seven years cos the criminal justice system is too soft. Better they crash and burn. If this guy has kids he was probably just a sperm donor, not a father. Let the laws of natural selection apply.

[TLMAN]

I think if you read the Stuff article, the police say that witnesses heard the bike take off as the police car was going the other way (having decided not to purse him as they were going to a burglary). The Police then say maybe he was reacting to a fear of being pursued.

I heard through the grapevine he was a disqulified driver, maybe he didnt know it was a stolen bike!!

[Steam]

I heard he was a learner motorcyclist, hadn't even been on a bike before, but an ex-con he was mentoring was showing him how to ride, when a police car sped past, startling him and he accidentally pinned the throttle and hurtled to his death, leaving behind six kids, a devoted wife, a local children's charity without its main volunteer worker, and an african village that wouldn't get its well dug without his donations.
Campbell Live was going to do a segment on him, as he had helped turn around the lives of many young hooligans.
He was up for an OBE from the Governor General for good deeds, and apparently he was going to be nominated for this year's Nobel Peace Prize too, after he brought peace to Israel/Palestine.

[dipshit]

This IS New Zealand you're talking about.

Thieves don't get punished in New Zealand.

"Apparently it's just a phase they are going through and they may grow out of it one day. So let's not be too hard on the poor criminals out there."


Jesus fucking Christ on a pony! No wonder there are so many fucking loses around these days!

[dmw]

Any sympathy I would feel, would be greatly outweighed by the pissed off feelings of having my bike stolen.

What exactly is the problem you fuckwits have with that? Were you little crims yourselves at one time? Are your kids little shits and are always in trouble with the law? Is this why you find such an attitude shocking?

I have no criminal record niether do my kids none of us have ever been in trouble with the law, I have brought my kids up to respect other people and their property and to hold on to friendship and this is what they are doing Grim was a very good friend and if you did not know him or have facts to back you up, I do not think you have the right to bad mouth him

[dmw]

He thought he was being pursued? Is this what he said to the paramedics as he was dying? Or is this just another bullshit twisted report in the media?

He was dead when they got there so unless it was a voice from heaven can not see it hapening

[Nasty]

I have no criminal record niether do my kids none of us have ever been in trouble with the law, I have brought my kids up to respect other people and their property and to hold on to friendship and this is what they are doing Grim was a very good friend and if you did not know him or have facts to back you up, I do not think you have the right to bad mouth him

It appears that the only reason you have joined this site is to defend your friend ... since you only post to this thread and joined after he died .. oh well each to their own.

[Waxxa]

The prick was either the thief or he knew it was stolen when he bought it!

What was he doing riding at 4am on a stolen bike and disqualified? If he was a good father and family man he would've been at home, in bed with his partner. And as for his 'friends'... littering and drinking in public, intimidating neighbours and tagging/graffeti on the wall, just shows what kind of 'good' person this guy was...NOT!

[marty]

The prick was either the thief or he knew it was stolen when he bought it!

What was he doing riding at 4am on a stolen bike and disqualified? If he was a good father and family man he would've been at home, in bed with his partner. And as for his 'friends'... littering and drinking in public, intimidating neighbours and tagging/graffeti on the wall, just shows what kind of 'good' person this guy was...NOT!

and that's it in a nutshell.

[more_fasterer]

The prick was either the thief or he knew it was stolen when he bought it!

WTF are you basing this on? Sensationalist media coverage? Or do you have inside knowledge?
The irony of this thread is that if the ZZR wasn't stolen, the KB pitchfork & burning torch brigade would be harping on about the media making bikers look bad; even despite the darwinian nature of his death.

What the pitchfork holders don't know is that this bike was bought by the guy with payment from a painting job - who can say whether he knew it was stolen? Now, probably only the guy who sold it to him.

Don't get me wrong - I am not condoning the actions of a thief. But all the arseholes who are (posthumously) wishing death upon the rider need to count to 10 and have a cup of tea before spouting pious tripe via their keyboard.


The bike in question was stolen on 4 March (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=68731).

I guess it's entirely possible that the dead guy bought it in good faith, in which case quite a few folk on this thread will need to eat their words.


Absolute rubbish. The bike was stolen, he was riding it. That does not mean that he stole it himself. He may have done, but then again, he may have just been a dumbarse and bought a bike off someone without checking its rego.

The Police have simply said that they're investigating to see whether there's any link between the rider and the theft.


Thank you JR for again trying to ensure that a balance is maintained in a KB thread, no matter how futile this effort may be.

[more_fasterer]

Dipshit's once again proven the truth of the
<img src=http://www.ascari.co.nz/internetassholetheory.jpeg>

[Kittyhawk]

What the pitchfork holders don't know is that this bike was given to the guy for a painting job he did - who can say whether he knew it was stolen? Now, probably only the guy who gave it to him.

Don't get me wrong - I am not condoning the actions of a thief. But all the arseholes who are (posthumously) wishing death upon the rider need to count to 10 and have a cup of tea before spouting pious tripe via their keyboard.

I have to agree. It originally was my first thought, did he steal it or not? Hence my previous post on page 1.

Ok stealing is breaking the law, but, anyone who breaks the law should loose their life over it? How bout when we take our bikes over the speed limit just that once on that perfect stretch of road when no one is around? Should we incur the death penalty??

There are far too many unanswered questions, so what gives us the right to assume and speculate about something we dont know about. Leave it to the professionals. That's what they are there for.

Most are only basing this on what they hear from the media, and they dont always get it right.

Peer pressure in regards to the alcohol consumption could have played a factor..

Just let it go.. I feel sorry for the kids...you cant replace your biological dad no matter how hard someone else tries to forfull the role. The kids will grow up and will forever wonder about him.

[ManDownUnder]

Any sympathy I would feel, would be greatly outweighed by the pissed off feelings of having my bike stolen.

What exactly is the problem you fuckwits have with that?

THAT's the problem - perspective.


Were you little crims yourselves at one time? Are your kids little shits and are always in trouble with the law? Is this why you find such an attitude shocking?

Nope. I'm not perfect and I'm the first to admit it. You're saying you are?

My kids all know they'd be escorted to the cop shop by me personally if they ever did this shit, but anyone wishing a death sentence on them would have to get past me.

I'm a nice guy day to day, but DON'T push that button.

[Waxxa]

Who in their right mind would buy a bike with no paper work? or accept a bike as payment for painting something? Bullshit!!

This guy is/was dodgy from the beginning! as is the so called 'friends' who have exhibited their loutish behaviour (people tend to associate with like minded people). If the bike was legit, why speed away from the cops (and he didnt know that the cops were going to a burglery and not after him)) so he knew something about the bike wasnt right. Even though he was disqualified, rather than stop for the cops for this infraction and take the fine or whatever, he was off!

If he didnt buy/accept the bike or stayed at home he would be alive today! Simple!

Sorry more fasterer, but its not media hype.

[Nasty]

Who in their right mind would buy a bike with no paper work? or accept a bike as payment for painting something? Bullshit!!

This guy is/was dodgy from the beginning! as is the so called 'friends' who have exhibited their loutish behaviour (people tend to associate with like minded people). If the bike was legit, why speed away from the cops (and he didnt know that the cops were going to a burglery and not after him)) so he knew something about the bike wasnt right. Even though he was disqualified, rather than stop for the cops for this infraction and take the fine or whatever, he was off!

If he didnt buy/accept the bike or stayed at home he would be alive today! Simple!

Sorry more fasterer, but its not media hype.

So many people on this site have started threads .. my bike has been repossessed ... for someone elses debt ... so alot of people buy bikes without checking .. they get burnt once and then learn. The cops were NOT following him and from what I read going a different direction - you and no one knows his throught processes .. so best to leave that alone as well.

[dipshit]

I have no criminal record niether do my kids none of us have ever been in trouble with the law, I have brought my kids up to respect other people and their property and to hold on to friendship and this is what they are doing Grim was a very good friend and if you did not know him or have facts to back you up, I do not think you have the right to bad mouth him

What about Grim though? Was he an little angel in the eyes of the police?

[marty]

What the pitchfork holders don't know is that this bike was given to the guy for a painting job he did - who can say whether he knew it was stolen? Now, probably only the guy who gave it to him.
.

so dmw (who appears to know this guy) saying that he bought the bike the day before is wrong? she declared how she knew him - how did you?

[JimO]

wether the bike was stolen or the guy was a crim or not doesnt give the people gathering there the right to vandalise the wall with their childish scribbles

[marty]

I have to agree. It originally was my first thought, did he steal it or not? Hence my previous post on page 1.

Ok stealing is breaking the law, but, anyone who breaks the law should loose their life over it?

he didn't die because he stole the bike. he died because he made some (or many) stupid decisions - read up about James Reason, and his model of 'swiss cheese', how many smaller decisions and actions line up to create a final (fatal) action.


Peer pressure in regards to the alcohol consumption could have played a factor..

what, so now it's not his fault? that is the biggest cop-out statement on this thread. unfortunately the reality is it's the reason the NZ justice system is in such a mess.

[Kittyhawk]

he didn't die because he stole the bike. he died because he made some (or many) stupid decisions - read up about James Reason, and his model of 'swiss cheese', how many smaller decisions and actions line up to create a final (fatal) action.

what, so now it's not his fault? that is the biggest cop-out statement on this thread. unfortunately the reality is it's the reason the NZ justice system is in such a mess.

Nope didnt specifically say it was his fault, but there are a number of negative inputs which has created a fatal output.

[Korumba]

The Police were responding to a burglary!!!!

Must have been a burglary reported last week!

[Ixion]

Who in their right mind would buy a bike with no paper work? or accept a bike as payment for painting something? Bullshit!!



You don't normally get any paper work nowdays when you buy a bike, it gets posted to you later by LTSA. The days of "ownership papers" are long gone.

And in my younger days I OFTEN got paid in kind for jobs I did. Only once a complete bike, but other stuff often enough, stereos, parts, tools. It's called trade and it's been around for a good few thousand years. Rationale enough to say he "bought" the bike, even though he paid for it in kind.

As to running, there's more than a few here have ridden when disqualified , and would likely take to the hills if a cop looked their way. Not condoning it, or being on a dodgy bke, but none of that makes him the thief.

Interestingly no-one seems very interested in the actual thief, the guy who stole it.

[Steam]

You don't normally get any paper work nowdays when you buy a bike, it gets posted to you later by LTSA. The days of "ownership papers" are long gone.


um, I've been handed the Certificate of Registration papers by the seller for the four bikes I have bought in the past few years. It's got a New Owner form on the back, and the seller's name and address on it, and all the bike's details.

[YellowDog]

I have been told that any old idiot can apply for the documentation to any vehicle. It is not exactly a secure system.

We don't know the actual story however it all sounds a little far feched.

Probably not however severe enough to lose a life over.

[more_fasterer]

so dmw (who appears to know this guy) saying that he bought the bike the day before is wrong? she declared how she knew him - how did you?

Sorry, I need to clarify - Grim bought the bike with the pay he received for a painting job - the bike was not his payment. I've edited the original post to reflect this.




Interestingly no-one seems very interested in the actual thief, the guy who stole it.

Sad, but true. As Grim bought it with folding, it could prove very difficult to track the thief down.

[marty]

you know all this, yet no-one seems to know who he bought it from? appears awfully convenient doesn't it? who dropped hm at the vendors house? someone must have (i'm sure he didn't walk). or did he buy it from a pub carpark? how much did he pay for it?

[Steam]

I have news!

One of the fine members on here - Chrislost (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php?u=7352) - was apparently one of the dudes at the "vigil" or party that got broken up by the cops.

He sent me a nice red bling that read: private message deleted by Jantar for this post here:

So you'd be one of these guys then?



...tribute notes have been tagged and spray-painted on the roadside and nearby lamp-posts and street signs...
... four mourners had been arrested ....
"... it's degenerated into loutish, offensive, disorderly, intoxicated behaviour."
People gathering and drinking at the site had blocked the footpath, intimidating residents...
...a man was arrested for breaching his bail after police broke up the gathering...
The group then moved to a nearby home and a party was broken up which ended in three disorder-related arrests.


Sad friends perhaps.
Stupid friends certainly.

Maybe he could explain the event clearly to us, as he was apparently friends with the dead guy.

[ynot slow]

He definately had a guilty conscience,about a) the bike? b)no license? c)what am i doing out this late?Answers to all of these will never be known,like the fact that his kids will never get to know their dad which is bloody sad,be he a brilliant dad or a prick,fact is they will never know.

As stated why do a runner? and as some are saying when the cops were going away from him,maybe if the cops were onto him he would run, why? again we'll never know.

When I bought my bike I got the rego off the picture in the site for sale,did check at post shop,sussed out the owner and inspected the bike,paid with folding stuff,and recieved ownership papers in due course.

Whether he knew it was hot is speculation.Quite a few people do jobs for payment in cash or goods,how many here do a perk for the ol' dozen beers?

[dmw]

wether the bike was stolen or the guy was a crim or not doesnt give the people gathering there the right to vandalise the wall with their childish scribbles


The wall that was vandalised had a great big hole in and sooner or later will have to be ripped down and a new one put up you can not repair a wall that is half missing, my kids have written on the wall and if I thought in anyway they were destroying anyones property I would take them up there and make them remove it, but it will have to be pulled down anyway so I do not see the harm the guy who lives behind the wall owns a bike and has been great about it all, he said he understands what people are going through

[sunhuntin]

whether the wall needs to be pulled down or not is no excuse for graffiti. is it ok to scribble on someones house, car or anything else just because it is beyond repair? besides, im betting that hole wasnt there before your "friend" went and made it. so now the owner has to pay to replace what likely was a perfectly ok fence, and has to deal with disrespectful [towards the fence owner] scribbles.

[swbarnett]

The wall that was vandalised had a great big hole in and sooner or later will have to be ripped down and a new one put up you can not repair a wall that is half missing, my kids have written on the wall and if I thought in anyway they were destroying anyones property I would take them up there and make them remove it, but it will have to be pulled down anyway so I do not see the harm the guy who lives behind the wall owns a bike and has been great about it all, he said he understands what people are going through


whether the wall needs to be pulled down or not is no excuse for graffiti. is it ok to scribble on someones house, car or anything else just because it is beyond repair? besides, im betting that hole wasnt there before your "friend" went and made it. so now the owner has to pay to replace what likely was a perfectly ok fence, and has to deal with disrespectful [towards the fence owner] scribbles.
Irrespective of what we think of the graffiti there are two important questions:

1. What does the owner of the fence think? Did they give their permission?

2. Did the council give permission for the graffiti on the surrounding lamp posts?

[Nasty]

Irrespective of what we think of the graffiti there are two important questions:

1. What does the owner of the fence think? Did they give their permission?

2. Did the council give permission for the graffiti on the surrounding lamp posts?



Answer question 2 - I work for a council and can pretty much assure you that they wouldn't give permission.

[swbarnett]

Answer question 2 - I work for a council and can pretty much assure you that they wouldn't give permission.
Exactly, there's no escaping this one.

[dmw]

Answer question 2 - I work for a council and can pretty much assure you that they wouldn't give permission.

The owner of the fence has today agreed to leave the fence up for six week for people to pay thier respects - it will then be torn down and replaced by insurance .

[sunhuntin]

i understand that properties on either side of the "holey" fence have also been written on. did they also say "yeh, sure, scribble on our fences to your hearts content"

[Nasty]

The owner of the fence has today agreed to leave the fence up for six week for people to pay thier respects - it will then be torn down and replaced by insurance .

Wow .. I am happy he can dictate that that is when the insurance will be finalised ... but the crap was written on the wall before now ... that is what was complained about previously ... but I am glad that your kids got to graffiti property while they had the chance to do it without having to face the law.

[dmw]

i understand that properties on either side of the "holey" fence have also been written on. did they also say "yeh, sure, scribble on our fences to your hearts content"


You understand does that mean you have been there and seen this I was there yesterday and could not see anything on the properties either side

[dmw]

Wow .. I am happy he can dictate that that is when the insurance will be finalised ... but the crap was written on the wall before now ... that is what was complained about previously ... but I am glad that your kids got to graffiti property while they had the chance to do it without having to face the law.

There was no way the wall would be left standing it had to come down that is the only reason that it was drawn on if the wall was going to be left standing I would have been the first one up there with some Jiff and a cloth telling them to remove it.

[dmw]

so dmw (who appears to know this guy) saying that he bought the bike the day before is wrong? she declared how she knew him - how did you?

I have known Grim for about six years friends of my kids went to school with him he has spent alot of time at my place, I have never had any problems with him he was always welcom.

[sunhuntin]

You understand does that mean you have been there and seen this I was there yesterday and could not see anything on the properties either side

on the news

[Chrislost]

as you can see there is tagging everywhere!

[Chrislost]

munch munch?

[Chrislost]

and the neighbours fences...

[swbarnett]

as you can see there is tagging everywhere!
Once again the media let's us down.

Thanks for the photos.

I hadn't realised until now that the fence he hit belongs to a group of flats that we used to live in. We moved after seeing our fan turn black from the fumes of the poorly maintained cars coming up the hill.

[Mole_C]

When did you take those pics Chris? Looked a lot worse when I was there

[Chrislost]

When did you take those pics Chris? Looked a lot worse when I was there

you were refering to the actual fence perhaps? the one that is going to be repaired? yes the writing is on the wall there.

[Chrislost]

.............

[ManDownUnder]

Amasing... yet again, a whole thread dedicated to the musings of the masses fiercly arguing their point
* unwilling to acknowledge they may not be in possession of all the facts
* unwilling to ask if there is another side to the story
* unwilling to show sympathy to innocents affected by the death of a man

... etc ...

Calling this guy every name under the sun and not even being willing to offer sympathy or help is fucking retarded.

One question for you all - do you know (I'm not talking assume... I mean black and white, "level of proof required for certainty")... do we actually KNOW this guy stole the bike?

If you do, please back up your claim with some factual evidence. Not hearsay, not guilty by association, not assumptions... I want proof. Until we have all the facts (think that'll ever happen?) I suggest you lot drink a big old cup of shut the fuck up until all sides of the story are known.

To quote dipshit - Jesus H Christ on a pony.... there's a ton of smoke in here but no bastard's been able to work out if there actually was a fire... or if it's just friction from all the wanking.

[James Deuce]

Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.

[dmw]

Amasing... yet again, a whole thread dedicated to the musings of the masses fiercly arguing their point
* unwilling to acknowledge they may not be in possession of all the facts
* unwilling to ask if there is another side to the story
* unwilling to show sympathy to innocents affected by the death of a man

... etc ...

Calling this guy every name under the sun and not even being willing to offer sympathy or help is fucking retarded.

One question for you all - do you know (I'm not talking assume... I mean black and white, "level of proof required for certainty")... do we actually KNOW this guy stole the bike?

If you do, please back up your claim with some factual evidence. Not hearsay, not guilty by association, not assumptions... I want proof. Until we have all the facts (think that'll ever happen?) I suggest you lot drink a big old cup of shut the fuck up until all sides of the story are known.

To quote dipshit - Jesus H Christ on a pony.... there's a ton of smoke in here but no bastard's been able to work out if there actually was a fire... or if it's just friction from all the wanking.


This is what I have been trying to point out I was a little more subbtle perhaps that does not pay off on here but I agree totally

[ManDownUnder]

This is what I have been trying to point out I was a little more subbtle perhaps that does not pay off on here but I agree totally

And I'm right behind you on that one.

[dipshit]

This is what I have been trying to point out I was a little more subbtle perhaps that does not pay off on here but I agree totally

You still didn't answer my question. Was Grim a little angel as far as the police were concerned?

[ManDownUnder]

You still didn't answer my question. Was Grim a little angel as far as the police were concerned?

'ang on - you're saying you don't have all the facts????

[SixPackBack]

Amasing... yet again, a whole thread dedicated to the musings of the masses fiercly arguing their point
* unwilling to acknowledge they may not be in possession of all the facts
* unwilling to ask if there is another side to the story
* unwilling to show sympathy to innocents affected by the death of a man

... etc ...

Calling this guy every name under the sun and not even being willing to offer sympathy or help is fucking retarded.

One question for you all - do you know (I'm not talking assume... I mean black and white, "level of proof required for certainty")... do we actually KNOW this guy stole the bike?

If you do, please back up your claim with some factual evidence. Not hearsay, not guilty by association, not assumptions... I want proof. Until we have all the facts (think that'll ever happen?) I suggest you lot drink a big old cup of shut the fuck up until all sides of the story are known.

To quote dipshit - Jesus H Christ on a pony.... there's a ton of smoke in here but no bastard's been able to work out if there actually was a fire... or if it's just friction from all the wanking.

Right behind you on this one Nigel. One of the most disgusting displays of collective stupidity ever witnessed on KB. A man died for fucks sake and you wankers are arguing about stolen property and graffiti...get some perspective.

[Patrick]

I have news!

One of the fine members on here - Chrislost (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php?u=7352) - was apparently one of the dudes at the "vigil" or party that got broken up by the cops.

He sent me a nice red bling that read: deleted by Jantar for this post here:


Maybe he could explain the event clearly to us, as he was apparently friends with the dead guy.

He has dished out a bit of red on this story lately, I got some too for my post number 80 in the other thread ("Bike stolen in Herne Bay" thread, and if I knew how to paste it onto here, I would...). The red went like this:

private quote deleted by Jantar

WTF?????

I am still lost as to why it was given red... his reply to my query on this is just as vague... This gem suddenly explains a bit about his calibre with his red to you...

Still, awaiting his reply to your query....:jerry:

[WelshWizard]

Post 4

We will have to wait and see if he is the one who stole it or not.

Post 6
sitting on the fence


I think it was reported as being a stolen bike. prick got what he deserved if it was stolen.

If its not true that it was a stolen bike, then it is sad news :(

Post 7
a bit of sanity


Got what he deserved?...are we sure about that?....stealing a bike is worth the death penalty-I think not!

post 27
the start of reasoning


The bike in question was stolen on 4 March (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=68731).

I guess it's entirely possible that the dead guy bought it in good faith, in which case quite a few folk on this thread will need to eat their words.

post 28

Absolute rubbish. The bike was stolen, he was riding it. That does not mean that he stole it himself. He may have done, but then again, he may have just been a dumbarse and bought a bike off someone without checking its rego.

The Police have simply said that they're investigating to see whether there's any link between the rider and the theft.

post 32
when you are into vintage and veteren bikes many are de reg and have no paperwork other than a reciept, or when bought through Trademe a saved printout of the auction.


+1

It is possible to buy bikes and cars only to find out later that they are not legit!

And yes it is possible treat offenders and for them not to reoffend again!!

post37

Yes the great media are always right ARN'T THEY, If they did print the truth how many papers would they sell I wonder.


I would have thought that people would by now realise that newpapers need to sell and therefore they like to 'spice' things up to get something sensational to sell.

I do not see anything wrong with people going to celebrate the life of a lost friend. My sympathies are with you and all that knew him.

post 41

probably closer to the truth than any other comment about KBers


KB members can steal bikes to.


we all make dum mistakes, no one need pay their life for it, I would be dead 10 times over if I payed for my mistakes in death, particulary in the 80's

RIP

post 51
Sanity


No evidence the feller who crashed had stolen the bike.

It would be wise to presume innocence on his behalf until otherwise proven.

Regardless of the circumstances someone is dead, a bike is trashed and a family mourns.

Some of you guys need to get a life.

I could go on and on,

As I said in post #4
we will have to wait and see,

until then every person has the right to be innocent untill proven guilty, if no proof, the he must be presumed innocent.

God help any one who is innocent and is charged with a crime in this country if the jury is made up of people with the attitudes that are shown in this thread.
I was a supporter of Bringing back hanging but you have convinced me to change my mind, to many innocent people would die because the jury would have a verdict before any trail.

As for the Graf on the wall, from what I can see from the photo post 131

.............
they are messages, no different from the crosses placed at the side of roads where some one died, only difference being they are on a brick wall which to be repaired will have to be demolished, the bricks that come down would be some thing from the riders partner to cherish as part of his memory.


Besides if the owner of the wall objected why would he not remove the Vivid that is on top of the wall

Not all KBers are baying hounds

So I will say

Rest in peace, my condolances to the next of kin.

[WelshWizard]

Amasing... yet again, a whole thread dedicated to the musings of the masses fiercly arguing their point
* unwilling to acknowledge they may not be in possession of all the facts
* unwilling to ask if there is another side to the story
* unwilling to show sympathy to innocents affected by the death of a man

... etc ...

Calling this guy every name under the sun and not even being willing to offer sympathy or help is fucking retarded.

One question for you all - do you know (I'm not talking assume... I mean black and white, "level of proof required for certainty")... do we actually KNOW this guy stole the bike?

If you do, please back up your claim with some factual evidence. Not hearsay, not guilty by association, not assumptions... I want proof. Until we have all the facts (think that'll ever happen?) I suggest you lot drink a big old cup of shut the fuck up until all sides of the story are known.

To quote dipshit - Jesus H Christ on a pony.... there's a ton of smoke in here but no bastard's been able to work out if there actually was a fire... or if it's just friction from all the wanking.

My final words are I concur with ManDownUnder above

[Gubb]

The Police, the Media, and the Evidence seem to think otherwise.

After re-reading the entire thread again, I must say, my original comment was pretty horrendous, and for that I am sorry. Somewhat caught up in the hype, i'm the first to admit that I was caught up on the bandwagon (it always seems like a good idea at the time). Now with a little more clarity, and a little more perspective I can see that I was jumping to conclusions based solely on my personal experiences of having personal possessions stolen and destroyed. Emotions run high.

JRandom, ManDownUnder, SixPackBack, WelshWizard: Thank You for putting forth clear, concise arguments. I didn't know the guy, I don't know how he came into contact with the bike. For all I know, he could be an axe-murderer, or a stand up guy. Not for me to decide.

Whether he stole the bike, or not, whether he did a runner, or not, whether he should have been riding, or not, he still left an innocent family behind.

[MIXONE]

Takes a big man to say he's wrong or admit a mistake HubbaGubba.Well done.

[MyGSXF]

Right behind you on this one Nigel. One of the most disgusting displays of collective stupidity ever witnessed on KB. A man died for fucks sake and you wankers are arguing about stolen property and graffiti...get some perspective.

yep.. x2

RIP to the rider :bye: & thoughts go to his family & friends! I would hazard a guess & say that they will be spinning in their own private nightmare at the moment! :(

[sunhuntin]

As for the Graf on the wall, from what I can see from the photo post 131

they are messages, no different from the crosses placed at the side of roads where some one died, only difference being they are on a brick wall which to be repaired will have to be demolished, the bricks that come down would be some thing from the riders partner to cherish as part of his memory.


Besides if the owner of the wall objected why would he not remove the Vivid that is on top of the wall

Not all KBers are baying hounds

So I will say

Rest in peace, my condolances to the next of kin.


the wall... fine, since it seems the owner gave his permission. but photos posted yesterday or the day before show writing on the white lines on the road. theres no way thats ok, since permission would not have been given for that. and the crosses are there as a reminder to drive safe [though the message doesnt get through]

[Patrick]

I have news!

One of the fine members on here - Chrislost (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php?u=7352) - was apparently one of the dudes at the "vigil" or party that got broken up by the cops.

He sent me a nice red bling that read: ...... for this post here:


Maybe he could explain the event clearly to us, as he was apparently friends with the dead guy.


He has dished out a bit of red on this story lately, I got some too for my post number 80 in the other thread ("Bike stolen in Herne Bay" thread, and if I knew how to paste it onto here, I would...). The red went like this:

"......."

WTF?????

I am still lost as to why it was given red... his reply to my query on this is just as vague... This gem suddenly explains a bit about his calibre with his red to you...

Still, awaiting his reply to your query....:jerry:

And now I get red on this one too...:cry::rofl: With this little pearler... "........." Doesn't quite explain the situation well as asked, but I guess he is trying....

C'mon Chrislost...:baby:

HTFU and enlighten as Steam has politely asked... Let us know what the story is.... Send red again if ya must....:banana::2thumbsup:woohoo::rofl::killingme

[ElCoyote]

Right behind you on this one Nigel. One of the most disgusting displays of collective stupidity ever witnessed on KB. A man died for fucks sake and you wankers are arguing about stolen property and graffiti...get some perspective.

Lets indeed get some perspective, the deceased was riding a stolen motorcycle, at an hour when respectable "family members" were at home, and spooked when a Police vehicle caused him (without reason) to accelerate and fail to take a corner. A licensed rider who had sat all the revelvant tests would have been able to control his vehicle and emotions at which point this tragedy would have not occured.

The actions of his so called friends, of whom I class you as one, due to to you trying to defend the indefensinble is a disgrace. I wish he had a pillion atv the time but exactly which arsehole it would be is far too big a decision to make as the majotity support what happened and are also property owners

Pretend your dickhead mate died outside my house and try your pathetic antics here. Hey guys.............open invitation.........reap what you sow

[Gubb]

A licensed rider who had sat all the revelvant tests would have been able to control his vehicle and emotions at which point this tragedy would have not occured.

After my last post in here, I can understand where you are coming from, but I can't see how sitting a Basic Handling Skills Test would help you control your emotions.

I know plenty of people with full bike licenses that do stupid things, and runners from the cops. Having your license, or being a disqualified driver has nothing to do with your ability to handle emotions, or control your vehicle. In fact, many of the people I know who have been disqualified are much more adept at handling a bike than me (not saying much there though) because they can do it well (and relatively safely) at high speed. Their only problem, is that they choose to do it on empty (well, except for that one cop car) public roads.

I'm not defending this guy, but no-one has the whole picture yet. I decided to back off until all the facts were in (not hearsay), before I made my judgement.

[ManDownUnder]

One question for you all - do you know (I'm not talking assume... I mean black and white, "level of proof required for certainty")... do we actually KNOW this guy stole the bike?



Lets indeed get some perspective, the deceased was riding a stolen motorcycle

Indeed, perspective would be nice. Exactly how do you know the bike was stolen? Evidence would be nice.... please feel free to share.


A licensed rider who had sat all the revelvant tests would have been able to control his vehicle and emotions at which point this tragedy would have not occured.

A good point - there may have been extenuating circumstances though... who knows - emotions, diesel on the road, drink driving... lots of things.

Again... please fill in the blanks for me here. I assume you do have all the facts...?


The actions of his so called friends, of whom I class you as one, due to to you trying to defend the indefensinble is a disgrace. I wish he had a pillion atv the time but exactly which arsehole it would be is far too big a decision to make as the majotity support what happened and are also property owners

So you're calling me an arsehole, and wishing I'd been on the back of the bike because I'm standing up saying I don't know all the facts therefore I can't establish his guilt or otherwise... I don't think anyone else is in a different position to me but if they are I'd like them to educate us all?



Pretend your dickhead mate died outside my house and try your pathetic antics here. Hey guys.............open invitation.........reap what you sow

If a man died outside your house I'd be doing exactly the same, for exactly the same reasons. I do reap what I sow, have done so for years and I'm enjoying the crop of friends around me.

... you're not surrounded by short sighted judgemental bigots are you?

[ElCoyote]

Indeed, perspective would be nice. Exactly how do you know the bike was stolen? Evidence would be nice.... please feel free to share.



A good point - there may have been extenuating circumstances though... who knows - emotions, diesel on the road, drink driving... lots of things.





So you're calling me an arsehole, and wishing I'd been on the back of the bike because I'm standing up saying I don't know all the facts therefore I can't establish his guilt or otherwise... I don't think anyone else is in a different position to me but if they are I'd like them to educate us all?




If a man died outside your house I'd be doing exactly the same, for exactly the same reasons. I do reap what I sow, have done so for years and I'm enjoying the crop of friends around me.

... you're not surrounded by short sighted judgemental bigots are you?

Let's start at the end shall we. Surrounded by short sighted judgmental bigots, negatori just the majority of folks with a social concience. You know the average Ma and Pa you grew up with, or didn't, in which case your post makes sense.

Your reference to a man dying outside my house is a non sequitur. If a dickhead splattered himself against my wall on on a road where anything less than incompetence was involved I would personally disable anybody who thougt that celebrating that arseholes life was a worthy response. AND I would seek recompense for the damage that arsehole caused. TO THE BITTER END. Amen.

As for wishing you on the back let me quantify that statement. I do not believe that the bike was bought without knowning it was stolen. If the rider was blameless (in any area) he would have not tried to outrun the Police. Had he been licenced and competent on a bike this tragedy would not have happened. Even licensed (if that was the case) he made a bad call and the cure was worse than the disease.

If you condone the actions of his "mates" with their wanton vandilsim of the neighbourhood then YES I wish you had been on the back. What better way to grow up than to be confronted with your own mortality.

If you have difficulty with this then PLEASE attempt to steal my bike or graffiti my property and perhaps we will then be reading off the same page and hopefully your intravenous tubes will allow you to hear me.

[swbarnett]

with their wanton vandilsim of the neighbourhood
Have you seen the photos earlier in this thread?

From what I can gather the owner's gave their permission for messages to be written on the wall. My wife and I used to live only one flat away from the wall in question and, assuming that the owners are still the same, this dies not surprise me. They were very decent and likeable folk.

[ManDownUnder]

OK lets take some steam out of this.

My fundamental assertion is that no-one in here knows all the facts. ElCoyote in your post below you confirm what you believe, but my question is a simple one - do you actually know. That's all I'm asking of anyone - do you actually KNOW the facts because to me this whole damned thread is full of anti theif accusations, pouring scorn upon the guy and his friends and wishing the worst on everyone around them when we should actually be big enough to stand up and admit we don't know all the facts and we are not in a position to pass judgement.

THAT is what I am defending.

The other issue I have (unrelated to the first) is the number of people wishing death on theives. That punishment doesn not fit the crime -if it did I'm confident the entire human race would be wiped out in the course of 30 years through accidental, childish or malicious acts of theivery.

Or are we simply talking about serious theft (in which case you need to define "serious"). Where do you draw the line, and at what point does it become a capital offence?

All I want is for us to consider the facts. I think the only fact we have is that we don't know all the facts... and should moderate our thinking, and especially our judgements of the people concerned accordingly.

No?



As for wishing you on the back let me quantify that statement. I do not believe that the bike was bought without knowing it was stolen.

Unless you were part to the transaction or in contact with those that were... how could you know that?


If the rider was blameless (in any area) he would have not tried to outrun the Police. Had he been licenced and competent on a bike this tragedy would not have happened. Even licensed (if that was the case) he made a bad call and the cure was worse than the disease.
Agreed, the cure was considerably worse than whatever the problem was. Compounding this is the fact we do not know what that problem was... do we?


If you condone the actions of his "mates" with their wanton vandilsim of the neighbourhood then YES I wish you had been on the back. What better way to grow up than to be confronted with your own mortality.

I understand (but am not certain) the neighbours ok'd the writing on their wall. If not then quite right hold those responsible for their actions. No problem. But if I am right then there's a lot of scorn being poured on some innocents here, writing on the wall they were actually invited to write on.



If you have difficulty with this then PLEASE attempt to steal my bike or graffiti my property and perhaps we will then be reading off the same page and hopefully your intravenous tubes will allow you to hear me.

Stick to the facts will ya? Threats never add weight to an argument.

[marty]

Indeed, perspective would be nice. Exactly how do you know the bike was stolen? Evidence would be nice.... please feel free to share.


http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=68731

[Curious_AJ]

a friend who works with me knew this guy personally. She says there is a lot of controversy amoung friends and family about his death. Apparently some of his mates were complete dicks and have been convicted of stealing cars etc in the past... She's not sure if he stole the bike himself, but he may have bought a hot bike without knowing it... no one knows... but in either case... RIP biker.

[ManDownUnder]

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=68731

Yup - got that.

Now - what is the link from that event to Grim riding it? I.e. through what sequence of events did it come into his possession, and again, what facts are backing up/supporting those claims?

[Swoop]

If the rider was blameless (in any area) he would have not tried to outrun the Police.
Hasn't it been clearly stated that the police were not in pursuit? They were going the other way to a burglary callout.

[WelshWizard]

Hasn't it been clearly stated that the police were not in pursuit? They were going the other way to a burglary callout.

Sorry that mean knowt, our little village shop got held up by some crims with shot guns, the husband of the women in the shop was in the back and realised what was going on phoned the cops, he was told not to upset the crims, and they would send some one when they were free, 3 days latter the cops arived, in the mean time less than 6 Ks away about 10 cops had a booze stop withabout 4 cars that never moved to the crime scene.

[ElCoyote]

Hasn't it been clearly stated that the police were not in pursuit? They were going the other way to a burglary callout.


It most certainly has has been mentioned ad nauseum, however the rider didn't know the lights were not for him and chose the course of action that killed him.

[YellowDog]

"but he may have bought a hot bike without knowing it""

Surely this is more insulting to him and his memory than any of the other accusations.

Best for his friends and family to focus on the good and positive aspects of his life.

[ManDownUnder]

Hasn't it been clearly stated that the police were not in pursuit? They were going the other way to a burglary callout.


It most certainly has has been mentioned ad nauseum, however the rider didn't know the lights were not for him and chose the course of action that killed him.

So the lights and sirens caused him to react ending in the fatal accident???

How do you know all this stuff? It's amasing.

[Swoop]

So the lights and sirens caused him to react ending in the fatal accident???

How do you know all this stuff? It's amasing.
Merely going on the statement that the police officer made. That is all. I haven't speculated on what might have happened to the rider after that, but I do have private suspicions.

[fire eyes]

Any sympathy I would feel, would be greatly outweighed by the pissed off feelings of having my bike stolen.

What exactly is the problem you fuckwits have with that? Were you little crims yourselves at one time? Are your kids little shits and are always in trouble with the law? Is this why you find such an attitude shocking?
:weep:A tragic situation right across the board directly & indirectly, my heart goes out to all those involved. Sometimes when situations frustrate or infuriate us a wise course of action is to be step back and try to understand why we feel this way about them. Then our energy can be better utilized by participating in pro-active solutions or encouraging problem-solving.:calm:

[ManDownUnder]

....but I do have private suspicions.

Total respect. Yes. as do I.

[Curious_AJ]

"but he may have bought a hot bike without knowing it""

Surely this is more insulting to him and his memory than any of the other accusations.

Best for his friends and family to focus on the good and positive aspects of his life.

yeah i know... fair enough, i'm just stating what i heard from someone who knows him... I got the impression from her, that he wasn't very bright in choosing mates or making decisions.. but as i've only heard a smidge, i'm not going to say much else here except that i agree with you in saying that they should honour the good....

[ElCoyote]

So the lights and sirens caused him to react ending in the fatal accident???

How do you know all this stuff? It's amasing.

Just call me Claire

[ManDownUnder]

Just call me Claire

No mate I'm calling your bluff. C'mon - spill... I want comprehensive facts proving everything you've been claiming or an apology to those you're insulted.

Your call.

[ElCoyote]

No mate I'm calling your bluff. C'mon - spill... I want comprehensive facts proving everything you've been claiming or an apology to those you're insulted.

Your call.

Wait for the movie, it's better with popcorn

[ManDownUnder]

Wait for the movie, it's better with popcorn


No mate I'm calling your bluff. C'mon - spill... I want comprehensive facts proving everything you've been claiming or an apology to those you're insulted.

Your call.

You're either proficient in the use of weasel words or missed my point... thats an either/or.

Stump up with the facts OR apologise to those you've insulted. You're not getting away with it that lightly.

[ElCoyote]

You're either proficient in the use of weasel words or missed my point... thats an either/or.

Stump up with the facts OR apologise to those you've insulted. You're not getting away with it that lightly.


No apology necessary sweet thing and none coming. Get over it.

[ManDownUnder]

No apology necessary sweet thing and none coming. Get over it.


oh no no no - an apology is indeed necessary - let me put this in perspective for you - here's how I see it.

You maintain the theft of a bike is worthy of the death penalty (a difference of opinion I can live with)
You have cast aspersions on the reputation of a dead man stating he's a theif but not been able to prove it
You've wished I was on the back of that bike for asking if you actually know all the facts here
You claimed that a licensed rider would not have had the accident
You've threatened to disable anyone wanting to celebrate the life of someone that ran into a wall on their bike (excluding incompetence)
You've accused those writing on the wall of wanton vandalism when permisssion may have been was sought and granted and when I questioned that you said you wished I was on the back of the bike (inferring injury or death to me)
You invited me to steal something of yours or graffiti something so you could put me in hospital and "hopefully your intravenous tubes will allow you to hear me."
You've tried to make light of the whole thing and weasel out of all the above with three jokes (Claire, popcorn and calling me sweet thing) and don't have the balls to stand up and admit to anyone that you might... just possibly, have made an assumption or two and be wrong.

Here's yet another chance - prove me wrong. You got some facts to back you up, balls to admit you were speaking out of turn, or ***nothing***?

***I know where my money is***.

[Disco Dan]

Get over it.

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[scumdog]

Stump up with the facts OR apologise to those you've insulted. You're not getting away with it that lightly.

What are you going to do if he does neither? - is it going to go International???:devil2:

[idb]

Yeah do it...don't shag about!!!!
Get his number!!!!

[ManDownUnder]

What are you going to do if he does neither? - is it going to go International???:devil2:

Done that already mate!!!!!

What's that saying every dog has it's day? That also applies to Coyotes...

[fire eyes]

:hug: Group Hug!

[MSTRS]

Sorry that mean knowt, our little village shop got held up by some crims with shot guns, the husband of the women in the shop was in the back and realised what was going on phoned the cops, he was told not to upset the crims, and they would send some one when they were free, 3 days latter the cops arived, in the mean time less than 6 Ks away about 10 cops had a booze stop withabout 4 cars that never moved to the crime scene.

A scenario repeated all over the country...
A cop I know was sent to a bar brawl on his own. 'No-one else available'. Meanwhile 100 metres away was a booze checkpoint with at least 8 cops in attendance.

[SixPackBack]

I'm with Mandownunder....ElCoyote is way of the mark.
He has the distinction of being the first person to be firmly planted on my ignore list.
Good onya Nigel...big respect!

[ManDownUnder]

......................... copied here with permission


Actually - to correct that... am I ok to publish that response? You're welcome to if you want, or I can do it... whatever works for you


Let me put you straight on your rambling accusations.

You state that I think the theft of a bike is worthy of the death penalty (A difference of opinion you can live with) LIVE WITH IT.

You allege I have accused him of being a thief. At no stage have I said that, but did he know it was stolen, now that’s a different matter.

I wish you were on the back of the bike? If you condone the antics of his immature cronies in desecrating the property of a person who is already a victim, then ABSOLUTELY. You are obviously do not own property.

I have never claimed a licensed rider would not have crashed but, I did question (and was the first to do so) as to whether he was licensed. It appears not, go figure. Licensed or not, when somebody exceeds their ability………kaboom.

I threatened to disable anybody celebrating the life of somebody who had hit a wall?. Read it properly boofhead, it says MY WALL.

That I have accused people of wanton vandalism when permission may have been sought and granted. Which is it, may have been sought or may have been granted. It either was or it wasn’t. Who is making assumptions now?

Invited you to steal something of mine. Again you obviously aren’t a property owner. TRY IT AND SEE WHAT TRANSPIRES.

I use weasel words, perhaps that’s because I have come across a weasel or two.

You have used your own interpretation of what was said. Read it again and use a dictionary this time = NO APOLOGY.

Ciao Bubba,

El Coyote

Print it if you wish but alongside your accusations which have been proven. At the same time scroll through the back issues and refresh yourself as to who said what.

[ManDownUnder]

Let me put you straight on your rambling accusations.
Cool
===

You state that I think the theft of a bike is worthy of the death penalty (A difference of opinion you can live with) LIVE WITH IT.
I'm happy to disagree on that one, the subject of where the line gets drawn for capital punishment remains however. Let me know your thoughts.
===

You allege I have accused him of being a thief. At no stage have I said that, but did he know it was stolen, now that’s a different matter.
Disco Dans' response saying


Good - that there is one less bike thief, +1 Very balanced replyNo direct statement he's a theif, but with respect - how else would I interpret this? (I have my dictionary handy...).

As you rightly ask - did he know it was stolen? I sure don't know... but have my suspicions - and you?
===

I wish you were on the back of the bike? If you condone the antics of his immature cronies in desecrating the property of a person who is already a victim, then ABSOLUTELY. You are obviously do not own property.
Please list what you DO know about me... again - the facts are certainly not to hand, and the assumptions and are getting tiresome

For the record I do own property, both real and a wide variety of other kinds. I've had it stolen by miscreants as well as the needy, I've had it vandalised and I've had it suffer a variety of other fates.

To ABSOLUTELY wish I was on the back of that bike? To be honest I think you have an anger management problem.
===

I have never claimed a licensed rider would not have crashed but, I did question (and was the first to do so) as to whether he was licensed. It appears not, go figure. Licensed or not, when somebody exceeds their ability………kaboom.
REALLY??? What does this bit mean then (quoted in context to make sure we have enough facts here)

Lets indeed get some perspective, the deceased was riding a stolen motorcycle, at an hour when respectable "family members" were at home, and spooked when a Police vehicle caused him (without reason) to accelerate and fail to take a corner. A licensed rider who had sat all the revelvant tests would have been able to control his vehicle and emotions at which point this tragedy would have not occured.


And he wasn't licensed? I missed that.
===

I threatened to disable anybody celebrating the life of somebody who had hit a wall?. Read it properly boofhead, it says MY WALL.

You would disable anyone celebrating the life of someone that hit YOUR wall?

Exactly what do you mean by disable (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/disable) (again dictionary handy)
<TABLE class=luna-Ent minmax_bound="true"><TBODY minmax_bound="true"><TR minmax_bound="true"><TD class=dn vAlign=top minmax_bound="true">1.</TD><TD vAlign=top minmax_bound="true">to make unable or unfit; weaken or destroy the capability of; cripple; incapacitate: He was disabled by blindness. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE class=luna-Ent minmax_bound="true"><TBODY minmax_bound="true"><TR minmax_bound="true"><TD class=dn vAlign=top minmax_bound="true">2.</TD><TD vAlign=top minmax_bound="true">to make legally incapable; disqualify. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Given the context (sorry for my personal interpretation on this one) I fail to see how option 2 is applicable, so I'm taking that as a physical threat to damage someone.

If I'm wrong - let me know what you really do mean?

And if I'm right - how badly damaged are you talking about?
===

That I have accused people of wanton vandalism when permission may have been sought and granted. Which is it, may have been sought or may have been granted. It either was or it wasn’t. Who is making assumptions now?
Or it could also mean (as was intended) may have been sought and (as a consequence) granted. Please if you're going to misinterpret what I say ... well... I believe you put it best
Read it again and use a dictionary this time

No assumptions. Permission may (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/may) have been sought and granted - means "(used to express possibility): It may rain" (Thanks Mr Dictionary)

I note there is a variety of examples - but the first one fits best and will certainly suffice...

So I'm saying there is the possibility permission was sought and consequently granted. It's a fact - it might have happened. I'm not saying if it did happen or not. I'm saying I DON'T KNOW... and just as importantly I don't think you do either. If you do... please let me know how, and what the facts actually are.

In the absence of absolutely knowing, any reaction in respect of writing on the wall is totally unqualified and (by it's very definition) cannot be justified.

===

Invited you to steal something of mine. Again you obviously aren’t a property owner. TRY IT AND SEE WHAT TRANSPIRES.
Again wrong - again no, and again... cut the threats.
===

I use weasel words, perhaps that’s because I have come across a weasel or two.
Me too - makes 'em real easy to spot doesn't it...
===

You have used your own interpretation of what was said. Read it again and use a dictionary this time = NO APOLOGY.
A good point and it gave me reason to re-examine what I think, and wrote. I found I have no issue with any of it.

On the other hand, considering the range of accusations made against Grim, his friends and family - unless you have some basis in fact for making them (and again - the invitation is there to please share them)... then a simple "I'm sorry - I'm actually not sure" shouldn't be too hard.

Your thoughts?

[ManDownUnder]

Silence...

... odd...

[fire eyes]

Silence...

... odd...
:yes: would you like a cuppa while you wait?

[ManDownUnder]

:yes: would you like a cuppa while you wait?

Such hospitality - you must be from The 'naki too...!

[fire eyes]

:first: I am! and yes we are a friendly bunch lol

[Patrick]

And he wasn't licensed? I missed that.[/QUOTE]

I thought someone said he was a disqually.....? Sort of not licenced then?

Coffee as above... beers and bourbon here...

[Nasty]

And he wasn't licensed? I missed that.

I thought someone said he was a disqually.....? Sort of not licenced then?

Coffee as above... beers and bourbon here...

No .. disqualified means unlicensed doesn't it ... cos I thought if you were disqualified you were not allowed to legally ride.

[fire eyes]

:calm: I can do tea,green tea,coffee or milo. I am not licensed to serve alcoholic beverages. lol


And he wasn't licensed? I missed that.

I thought someone said he was a disqually.....? Sort of not licenced then?

Coffee as above... beers and bourbon here...[/QUOTE]

[scumdog]

No .. disqualified means unlicensed doesn't it ... cos I thought if you were disqualified you were not allowed to legally ride.


'Unlicenced' generally means never having held a licence.

'Disqualified' means you had one and it was taken off you for some legal transgression...

[idb]

'Unlicenced' generally means never having held a licence.

'Disqualified' means you had one and it was taken off you for some legal transgression...

Bastard cops!!!

[The Pastor]

oh no no no - an apology is indeed necessary - let me put this in perspective for you - here's how I see it.

You maintain the theft of a bike is worthy of the death penalty (a difference of opinion I can live with)
You have cast aspersions on the reputation of a dead man stating he's a theif but not been able to prove it
You've wished I was on the back of that bike for asking if you actually know all the facts here
You claimed that a licensed rider would not have had the accident
You've threatened to disable anyone wanting to celebrate the life of someone that ran into a wall on their bike (excluding incompetence)
You've accused those writing on the wall of wanton vandalism when permisssion may have been was sought and granted and when I questioned that you said you wished I was on the back of the bike (inferring injury or death to me)
You invited me to steal something of yours or graffiti something so you could put me in hospital and "hopefully your intravenous tubes will allow you to hear me."
You've tried to make light of the whole thing and weasel out of all the above with three jokes (Claire, popcorn and calling me sweet thing) and don't have the balls to stand up and admit to anyone that you might... just possibly, have made an assumption or two and be wrong.

Here's yet another chance - prove me wrong. You got some facts to back you up, balls to admit you were speaking out of turn, or ***nothing***?

***I know where my money is***.
prove that he didnt steal the bike.

[yungatart]

prove that he didnt steal the bike.

In NZ, we are innocent until proven guilty.
The onus is on (you) to prove he did!

[The Pastor]

In NZ, we are innocent until proven guilty.
The onus is on (you) to prove he did!
were not in court, yungatard.

[ManDownUnder]

prove that he didnt steal the bike.

What a stupid post... two issues.

1) Proving innocence is not what's required, proving GUILT is. Standard practice a la the justice system... and for good reason (see 2 below)

2) That's a logical fallicy - can't be done. You can not prove a negative. You can only disprove a negative. Gve me a comprehensive list of things I didn't do today. Can't be done. Because I didn't do them there is no evidence.

But I could prove who did not steal the bike if I knew who did... (i.e. I can prove Bob didn't steal it only by proving Peter did). So give me the name of the theif (along with evidence as requested all along) and I'll prove to you the guilt or innocence of the rider in that respect

... still waiting...

edit.. RM - prove you didn't steal the bike.

[yungatart]

What a stupid post... two issues.

1) Proving innocence is not what's required, proving GUILT is. Standard practice a la the justice system... and for good reason (see 2 below)

2) That's a logical fallicy - can't be done. You can not prove a negative. You can only disprove a negative. Gve me a comprehensive list of things I didn't do today. Can't be done. Because I didn't do them there is no evidence.

But I could prove who did not steal the bike if I knew who did... (i.e. I can prove Bob didn't steal it only by proving Peter did). So give me the name of the theif (along with evidence as requested all along) and I'll prove to you the guilt or innocence of the rider in that respect

... still waiting...

edit.. RM - prove you didn't steal the bike.

He doesn't have to prove it..this is not a court...
As you were.

[The Pastor]

What a stupid post... two issues.

1) Proving innocence is not what's required, proving GUILT is. Standard practice a la the justice system... and for good reason (see 2 below)

2) That's a logical fallicy - can't be done. You can not prove a negative. You can only disprove a negative. Gve me a comprehensive list of things I didn't do today. Can't be done. Because I didn't do them there is no evidence.

But I could prove who did not steal the bike if I knew who did... (i.e. I can prove Bob didn't steal it only by proving Peter did). So give me the name of the theif (along with evidence as requested all along) and I'll prove to you the guilt or innocence of the rider in that respect

... still waiting...

edit.. RM - prove you didn't steal the bike.
I was at a family bbq.

Lets look at the facts.

Hes from beach haven.

He tried to run from the cops. (only people who have broken the law run)

His friends are "high class citizens" (shit sticks together)

He had in his possesion a stolen bike.

Put them all together and whats the logical conclusion you get? He stole it, plain and simple.

[ManDownUnder]

He doesn't have to prove it..this is not a court...
As you were.

I'm not accusing RM of stealing it, I'm using the example as a proof of what I said.

RM can only prove he didn't steal the bike if he can actually prove what he WAS in fact doing (i.e. laying out some facts instead of saying "it wasn't me in the absence of anything else... which he wouldn't have... because it didn't happen)

[ManDownUnder]

I was at a family bbq.
Bingo - my point exactly. Wonder if you can get your head around that...



Lets look at the facts.
Hes from beach haven.
He tried to run from the cops. (only people who have broken the law run)
His friends are "high class citizens" (shit sticks together)
He had in his possesion a stolen bike.
Put them all together and whats the logical conclusion you get? He stole it, plain and simple.

This is getting dizzying. One thing at a time...

You are probably right... but logically there remains a possibility you are not... agreed?

[The Pastor]

Bingo - my point exactly. Wonder if you can get your head around that...




This is getting dizzying. One thing at a time...

You are probably right... but logically there remains a possibility you are not... agreed?
I'd say there is a small chance he didnt steal it yes. But if he didnt steal it he still

Lived in beach haven (we should clean up the nroth shore by exterminating the haven)

Ran from the cops (ok lots of us have done that, but none of us expect symathy for it)

had in his possesion a stolen bike. I don't care if he stole it or not, he should return it if he didnt steal it. Its just as bad.

He also wrote of somone elses bike, thats just not cool.

Anyway you cut it he still is scum.

[The Pastor]

and the gene pool is now that 0.000001% cleaner.

[ManDownUnder]

I'd say there is a small chance he didnt steal it yes.

*snip*

Anyway you cut it he still is scum.

Ok - so if we agree there is a small chance he didn't steal it - why is everyone jumping on the bandwagon to say he is this that and the other??? Why are people unable or unwilling to admit we're not totally sure?

Or to put it another way, you can't prove his guilt, therefore I can't prove his innocence. He's somewhere in the middle there... and only comprehensive sets of facts will conclude this one way or the other.

As for him being scum. Again - you have proof (I mean actualy proof... not "he ran from the cops"... we don't actually know that happened. Then again - if we ACTUALLY do... please provide evidence.)

[Tank]

As for him being scum. Again - you have proof (I mean actualy proof... not "he ran from the cops"... we don't actually know that happened. Then again - if we ACTUALLY do... please provide evidence.)

From reading the thread its pretty clear that someone thought that was what was happening - yet ssome choose to use this as 'fact' to support a fundamentally stupid argument.

MDU - Id give up trying to make RM see logic or sense - its obvious that neither are his strong point.

Beach Haven may not be the best part of the Shore - but he MAY have been a struggling father trying to do the best by his family.

He MAY have been many, many things. Yet based on 1/2 information, and wild guesses people have commend this guy and are dancing on his grave.

Frankly people like this make me sick. Yet they are the first to bleat when something happens to them.

[Tank]

OH - and the ones who keep saying "Id bash / kill / whatever" are generally the biggest pussies who wouldn't have the guts to actually stand up to anyone like that.

[swbarnett]

He MAY have been many, many things. Yet based on 1/2 information, and wild guesses people have commend this guy and are dancing on his grave.
Not unlike the stereotypical scenario of the town mob herding the nearest outsider to the hanging tree.

[Patrick]

And now I get red on this one too...:cry::rofl: With this little pearler... "....." Doesn't quite explain the situation well as asked, but I guess he is trying....

C'mon Chrislost...:baby:

HTFU and enlighten as Steam has politely asked... Let us know what the story is.... Send red again if ya must....:banana::2thumbsup:woohoo::rofl::killingme

Hahahahaha 4 reds from Chrislost now for this one too... never used the ignore function before, but hey....still won't... fishing is good with this one...

Chrislost..."........." (deleted by Mods... not allowed to post PMs and feedback on here... my bad...)

No, fuck off means nothing to me, whatsoever. :tugger::finger: Even more so when its from the net.

Funny thing is his mate Ragingrob had no probs, I just pointed out what might have caused the red that Rob got, and Chrislost gets all prissy, going on about Harleys and unemployed folk, something I never even mentioned, ever....

FWIW Chrislost, you have never explained anything to me in your PM.

Stay in school and learn to spell, student boy... at 21 what does that make you, a 5th year 5th former???

[WelshWizard]

prove that he didnt steal the bike.


The law is supposed to give you the benefit of doubt hence innocent till proven guilty, therefore the burden of proof is on the accusers, As yet only circumstantial evidence, no hard proof , even the Cops have backed away from saying he was the one who stole the bike.

we don't live in medieval time when innocence was proved by dyeing in a ducking pond

[spudchucka]

but logically there remains a possibility you are not... agreed?

The balance of probabilities speaks volumes in this case although, as you say, there still remains a possibility to the contrary.

[The Pastor]

From reading the thread its pretty clear that someone thought that was what was happening - yet ssome choose to use this as 'fact' to support a fundamentally stupid argument.

MDU - Id give up trying to make RM see logic or sense - its obvious that neither are his strong point.

Beach Haven may not be the best part of the Shore - but he MAY have been a struggling father trying to do the best by his family.

He MAY have been many, many things. Yet based on 1/2 information, and wild guesses people have commend this guy and are dancing on his grave.

Frankly people like this make me sick. Yet they are the first to bleat when something happens to them.
Proof he was scum? He had a stolen bike.

[The Pastor]

The law is supposed to give you the benefit of doubt hence innocent till proven guilty, therefore the burden of proof is on the accusers, As yet only circumstantial evidence, no hard proof , even the Cops have backed away from saying he was the one who stole the bike.

we don't live in medieval time when innocence was proved by dyeing in a ducking pond
I don't care im not a cop/lawyer/jude. Its my opoion that he stole it/knew it was stolen.. I'd wager money on it too.

[WelshWizard]

I don't care im not a cop/lawyer/jude. Its my opoion that he stole it/knew it was stolen.. I'd wager money on it too.

Only trouble with that we all know you are a windup merchant, so we can't be sure if thats your true belief or not , no matter what you now say.

[The Pastor]

Only trouble with that we all know you are a windup merchant, so we can't be sure if thats your true belief or not , no matter what you now say.
Birds of a feather flock together.

[ManDownUnder]

The balance of probabilities speaks volumes in this case although, as you say, there still remains a possibility to the contrary.

Thank you and agreed 100%.

I have no problem with the inferences and balance of probabilities as presented.

What's gotten right up my nose in this instance is the typical KB pack baying for blood, dancing on the grave of a dead man and attacking those of us simply asking to know the other side of the story.

It's like the famous incident where someone in the States said that maybe someone should stop and understand why someone flew the planes into the twin towers. - what motivated them. The pack turned on them saying they were anti American, should be shot, inprisoned etc etc etc... when all they did was seek understanding so everything else could be put in context.

Maybe I'm the odd one out in this, maybe I'm strange in actually wanting to understand something from both sides before arriving at a judgement. But from where I stand the insults, the withdrawal of help, slagging friends and family of the guy that died is pretty damned purile.

Ever consider they might actually be suffering, and be victims of what happened?

I've always taken the treatment of the weak (those unable to defend themselves) as a good measure of a society. This thread speaks volumes about KB (enclaves of both good and bad.)

[SixPackBack]

Thank you and agreed 100%.

I have no problem with the inferences and balance of probabilities as presented.

What's gotten right up my nose in this instance is the typical KB pack baying for blood, dancing on the grave of a dead man and attacking those of us simply asking to know the other side of the story.

It's like the famous incident where someone in the States said that maybe someone should stop and understand why someone flew the planes into the twin towers. - what motivated them. The pack turned on them saying they were anti American, should be shot, inprisoned etc etc etc... when all they did was seek understanding so everything else could be put in context.

Maybe I'm the odd one out in this, maybe I'm strange in actually wanting to understand something from both sides before arriving at a judgement. But from where I stand the insults, the withdrawal of help, slagging friends and family of the guy that died is pretty damned purile.

Ever consider they might actually be suffering, and be victims of what happened?

I've always taken the treatment of the weak (those unable to defend themselves) as a good measure of a society. This thread speaks volumes about KB (enclaves of both good and bad.)

On the contrary Nigel, you are the voice of reason. You are right!. Common law agrees with you and so do I.:niceone:

[Artemis Fowl]

I don't care im not a cop/lawyer/jude. Its my opoion that he stole it/knew it was stolen.. I'd wager money on it too.

Having read all the threads and heard people trying to condone theft/receiving, I'd say poetic justice was served.

[ManDownUnder]

Having read all the threads and heard people trying to condone theft/receiving, I'd say poetic justice was served.

err.... who did that?

[The Pastor]

Thinking about it a bit more, everyone makes mistakes. The only shame is that he died and didnt have an opertunity to turn his life around.

[ManDownUnder]

The only shame is that he died and didnt have an opertunity to turn his life around.

From what to what?

[YellowDog]

From what to what?
Firstly, we don't actually know what this guy did wrong, apart from riding badly. The rumour mill isn't really helping.

Boys do silly things when they are young, however often mature away from such behaviour. This guy had just started a familiy and had a good reason to start growing up (if that is what is required).

Maybe he was already a lost cause: BUT it is not for KBers to endorse this 'death penalty' for what may have been a missguided kid needing to grow up a little.

[chadnz]

Yup, this hapenned just up the road from me. Anyone dying will result in a sad loss for someone. I don't think the guy's Mum deserved this for not bringing her child up well enough!

Perhaps we should have a health warning sticker made for our bikes "Stealing this bike may result in serious injury or even death"

Not good. RIP thief (if that's who it is).

My RF900 was stolen from Grey Lynn on March 17th, my excess is $1,500 and the bike was under insured. If I calculate it correctly, if all thieves died, people would stop stealing for fear of death... maybe it's a good thing. ps $1000 reward if someone can get it back - for real
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=148826795

[swbarnett]

Maybe I'm the odd one out in this,
You're not alone.

[The Pastor]

From what to what?
from scum to not scum.

[ManDownUnder]

from scum to not scum.

Thanks, but there's a small piece of information missing here... how do you know he's scum?

'reckon you'll turn your life around too?

[YellowDog]

My RF900 was stolen from Grey Lynn on March 17th, my excess is $1,500 and the bike was under insured. If I calculate it correctly, if all thieves died, people would stop stealing for fear of death... maybe it's a good thing. ps $1000 reward if someone can get it back - for real
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=148826795
Very sorry to hear about your bike getting stolen. Perhaps the theif's parents should have instilled a better sense of responsibility in their child.

I hope your bike thief is caught, punnished, and is able to understand that such behaviour is unacceptable; so that they can lead a more acceptable lifestyle.

Hopefully no one on here wishes them dead..................

[Artemis Fowl]

You're not alone.


No, there is some other twit who keeps asking "How do you know" When the coroners inquest is held he will know. He talks about the riders family but keeps this thread alive and in their face. Nice one.

[MrE_MaN]

Irrelevant of whether he was a saint or a slimeball, he broke the common sense rule of "ride to the conditions"/"know + ride within your limits", and highly likely broke the speed limit too*

*(Inspector Les Paterson said the motorbike - a high-performance model reported stolen from an Auckland address this month - had earlier been seen speeding.)


*If* indeed he was a disqualified driver [citation needed], then he had already broken enough laws (that are there for your protection) for the govt to see him as a danger to himself or others, and by continuously breaking them he, in effect, committed suicide.

For those 'need proof' sticklers, the tagging shown on the road alone, makes his friends a pack of wankers, ESPECIALLY when they had been given a space on which to pay their respects. This is akin to pissing on the floor intentionally when a golden toilet bowl is offered to you.

It's a pity his family now has to live without a son/brother/father, but as its quite far out of my monkeysphere (http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/monkeysphere.html) I, like some of the others who phrased it more vengefully, don't particularly care.

[Tank]

Irrelevant of whether he was a saint or a slimeball, he broke the common sense rule of "ride to the conditions"/"know + ride within your limits", and highly likely broke the speed limit too*

*(Inspector Les Paterson said the motorbike - a high-performance model reported stolen from an Auckland address this month - had earlier been seen speeding.)


*If* indeed he was a disqualified driver [citation needed], then he had already broken enough laws (that are there for your protection) for the govt to see him as a danger to himself or others, and by continuously breaking them he, in effect, committed suicide.

For those 'need proof' sticklers, the tagging shown on the road alone, makes his friends a pack of wankers, ESPECIALLY when they had been given a space on which to pay their respects. This is akin to pissing on the floor intentionally when a golden toilet bowl is offered to you.

It's a pity his family now has to live without a son/brother/father, but as its quite far out of my monkeysphere (http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/monkeysphere.html) I, like some of the others who phrased it more vengefully, don't particularly care.


Gee MrE_MaN,

Im guessing that this isnt your first ever post on KB.

At least you could post it under your real login and stand up for your views.

[gunnyrob]

Has INNO (the guy who had his bike stolen) been given any info on who nicked his bike? That would kill rumour control in it's tracks.

On the "Bike stolen from Herne Bay" thread, posted by FORREST:


Quote:
Originally Posted by rose
ROSE: the guy who u stole your bike who u think is such a useless idiot happens to be my good mate, well he was. i know for a fact he didn't steal the bike himself, sure he knew it was stolen but one silly mistake took him away from his beautiful baby girl and his many friends.

FORREST: So he knew it was stolen? Must have been a really top bloke.


Quote:
ROSE: i know u guys are gutted about your bike. but a bike is a bike and is replaceable. a person's life can never come back. maybe if the bike was looked after properly and locked up u would still have your bike and we would stil have our mate. diss him all u like but be careful what u say because there are so many heart broken people at the moment.

FORREST: Are you serious? You blame the bike's owner for the death of your friend?

The bike was parked off the street and under a bike cover.

[Patrick]

Has INNO (the guy who had his bike stolen) been given any info on who nicked his bike? That would kill rumour control in it's tracks.

On the "Bike stolen from Herne Bay" thread, posted by FORREST:


Quote:
Originally Posted by rose
ROSE: the guy who u stole your bike who u think is such a useless idiot happens to be my good mate, well he was. i know for a fact he didn't steal the bike himself, sure he knew it was stolen but one silly mistake took him away from his beautiful baby girl and his many friends.

FORREST: So he knew it was stolen? Must have been a really top bloke.


Quote:
ROSE: i know u guys are gutted about your bike. but a bike is a bike and is replaceable. a person's life can never come back. maybe if the bike was looked after properly and locked up u would still have your bike and we would stil have our mate. diss him all u like but be careful what u say because there are so many heart broken people at the moment.

FORREST: Are you serious? You blame the bike's owner for the death of your friend?

The bike was parked off the street and under a bike cover.

This is getting interesting again. :jerry::jerry::jerry:

Always someone elses fault with this generation....

[YellowDog]

Rose - I and many on this board are very sorry for your loss. Some of the comments on this thread have been obscenely lacking in compassion and any degree of humanity.

However please do also understand why tempers have been running so high. To many on KB their bike is more than a vehicle. It is a very close personal possession and an extension of their own personalities and lives. I have known bikers who would be less emotional if their wife or girlfriend had been taken from them by another.

My opinion and experience is that someone who does bad things and mixes with bad company will be negatively affected and influenced. Your reference for Grim is a good one and I would like to think that with his new family and focus, his perspective on such behaviour would improve and he may have eventually grown out of such associations.

Like you quite rightly say, "no one will ever know", especially his loved ones, as he never had the chance to use his new perspective on life to see if it would make him respond positively to the challenge.

Take it easy Rose. I can only offer you my sincerest condolences.

[scumdog]

This is getting interesting again. :jerry::jerry::jerry:

Always someone elses fault with this generation....

True.

Generation 'F' it should be: Faultless.

Yeah right.

[swbarnett]

True.

Generation 'F' it should be: Faultless.

Yeah right.
And the other problem with the current climate is that it always has to be somebody's fault. The shit happens, get on with life concept seems to be poorly understood.

[vifferman]

Huh.
So this thread is still going. :eek5:
Is Mr Grim still dead?
Should I say summat sensible (for a change)?
Hokay.
Here's what I think.
There's a lot of ego-tripping, self-righteousness and all that going on.
The bottom line is that Mr Grim is responsible for his own fate: whether the cops were pursuing him or not, he was riding like a cock, messed up, and suffered the consequences.
However, unless he was a really nasty piece of work who deserved some violent retribution, his life was worth far more than a piece of machinery, whether or not he was a knowing party to its theft. He was someone's son, friend, father, etc etc, and he will be missed. Personally, I find these shrine things that people like to erect at the site of someone's demise somewhat pathetic and illogical , but if it gives the mourners some solace and comfort, well, good luck to them. That probably once again outweighs damage to property etc. People are more important than things.

Thus speaketh the Vifferman.

You can all go back to your normal lives now.

THE END :crazy:

[MIXONE]

I think the vifferman covers it all.Please let this thread die now as it doesn't show bikers or KB in a good light at all.

[spudchucka]

Please let this thread die now .........

It can't until its stolen a bike or received a hot bike and crashed it at high speed into a brick wall in a paranoid state of delirium brought on by the close proximity of flashing disco lights that weren't intended for it in the first place.