New subframe rules

[Shaun]

HELP SOMEONE- I would like us to try and get the rules changed ASAP-So could some one who understands 100% how to go about putting forward new idea;s for rule changes please Speak up!!!!!!

My Idea to be asked for, all classes can use after market/ home made front and rear sub frames- SO MUCH CHEAPER THAN ORIGINAL STUFF!

The bike will still look standard from a distance, but will help with repair costs for the mistakes that happen

And we are always going on about how exspensive this game is, LETS CHANGE THAT PLEASE

[johnsv650]

i disagree,
the suzuki ones are removable and the kawasaki aren't, secondhand suzuki rear subframes are around buy them...... do they need another advantage for the higher hp suzuki.....

[johnsv650]

the rules allow the front subframe to be changed as they are now.....

[johnsv650]

if you want to borrow one ,
i have a spare !

[Shaun]

Bad luck for the Kawasaki riders then dude. It is CHEAPER to use aftermarket than standard, and NO THANKS I have 8 here already

[johnsv650]

how can it be cheaper,
if they have standard one already it comes with bike. its there.....costs not one cent more....
be fair to all in the protwins, why do people need advantages over others ?
just turn the trottle eariler and quicker, thats how you go faster .....

[Taz]

I think shaun is refering to the ones that inevitably get bent in a racing "mishap". The price of original equipment would be more than the price of one you could fabricate yourself. Or buy of someone else.

Also I think Shaun is already fast enough?

[Shaun]

how can it be cheaper,
if they have standard one already it comes with bike. its there.....costs not one cent more....
be fair to all in the protwins, why do people need advantages over others ?
just turn the trottle eariler and quicker, thats how you go faster .....



John, take your time and think it through for god sake man! Racing is NOT just (U and Your class,) racing is the whole scene!



Superbike
Superstock
F3
Pro Twins

And if we can make the racing cheaper for MOST PEOPLE, Fantastic, or have you got another problem with that?

[Shaun]

I think shaun is refering to the ones that inevitably get bent in a racing "mishap". The price of original equipment would be more than the price of one you could fabricate yourself. Or buy of someone else.


Dam, even you understood the focus of this, good on ya:buggerd:

[FROSTY]

I think theres a SIMPLE solution.
Make the rule read.
Front and rear subframes must be factory origonal for that make and model.OR a suitable replica.Replica must weigh same weight as a factory subframe for that make and model.

That would mean No weight advantage usung aftermarket but better crashibility.
Of course the cynic in me imagines superlight subframes with the very lowest most central parts filled with lead but hey its a workable solution :devil2:

[Tim 39]

I think theres a SIMPLE solution.
Make the rule read.
Front and rear subframes must be factory origonal for that make and model.OR a suitable replica.Replica must weigh same weight as a factory subframe for that make and model.

That would mean No weight advantage usung aftermarket but better crashibility.
Of course the cynic in me imagines superlight subframes with the very lowest most central parts filled with lead but hey its a workable solution :devil2:

the only problem I see, would be policing it. are they going to take everyones subframes off and set there and weight them all etc. I see Shaun's idea to be the best. having to make something the same weight would be more trouble than it's worth

[FROSTY]

Nope--the RULE needs to be there -

[enigma51]

I agree with frosty enforcing the rule is an issue but it still needs to be there

I think the main thing is that it has to be a tested and safe frame not something put together by "wood" although saying that it does not stop some factory parts

[FROSTY]

the only problem I see, would be policing it. are they going to take everyones subframes off and set there and weight them all etc. I see Shaun's idea to be the best. having to make something the same weight would be more trouble than it's worth
Dude I don't wanna sound disrespectful to ya here but when you"ve been around the ractracks as long as I have you'll see Deja vu --just like I have
If it CAN be done to make say a 1kg weight saving or a 1km/h top speed difference then it WILL be done by the top teams. you therefore have the choice -step up to the plate or get left behind.

[Ivan]

I believe that Shauns Idea is right as talking to dad making your own etc is alot better as it doesnt cost sweet stuff all to do.

And man I dont honestly believe a subframe is gonna make sweet F All to performance

[FROSTY]

It doesn't you are apsolutely right Ivan.
Its not what it IS its that its the thin end of a wedge worries me

[kickingzebra]

Meh, no more weight in front subframe than a good sweat will lose you,
and I am all for after market replacements of stuff, after suzuki priced up one nice little highside at over $7000 for me...
Hell, I ain't never going to be a feather wieght racer, but would be nice if the old wallet didn't have to take a $450 odd dollar pounding every time I lay the bike down and munt just the front subframe... DOn't even want to think about the rear!
Great call Shaun!

[GSVR]

http://www.motorcyclingnz.co.nz/download/Competition_Rule_Change_Policy.pdf

[Maido]

I snapped and bent a subframe on my 05 CBR600 at the start of last year, to buy one retail is $1495. I haven't got a price on my 07 one yet.....

Shaun, Good idea! when do we vote it in!

[HDTboy]

Front and rear Subframe: May be replaced with aftermarket part of same basic material as OEM. Must weigh at least 90% of stock parts, and be of similar length, and width as stock.

[Shaun]

I snapped and bent a subframe on my 05 CBR600 at the start of last year, to buy one retail is $1495. I haven't got a price on my 07 one yet.....

Shaun, Good idea! when do we vote it in!



Read the rule posted by GSVR Garry. ( Thanks mate) And go get your club onto it Maido please!!!!!!!

Personally, I do not care about any weight differences etc ( anyone that claims to have lost a race in NZ because someone elses bike is 2kg lighter, is a TOSSER) ( HTFU)

Just get the rule introduced, so the original body work look is retained ( To satisy the manufacturer) MINIMUM!

Go Maido, Go make NZ race scene better for one and all mate, and PM or Email me, if you want any help at all mate!

Are you going to run with getting this rule introduced for us all?????????( Seriously)

PS- This rule change, will actually create work for NZ People- (ie) BILLY on here and F1 Engineering for example!!!!!!!!!!!!

[FROSTY]

Personally, I do not care about any weight differences etc ( anyone that claims to have lost a race in NZ because someone elses bike is 2kg lighter, is a TOSSER) ( HTFU)
PS- This rule change, will actually create work for NZ People- (ie) BILLY on here and F1 Engineering for example!!!!!!!!!!!!
I disagree with your first comment. Only in that its the thin end of the wedge. Yep 2kg is a bloody good feed and a couple of pints but then how long before someone for example gets a set of marvics --they look like factory wheels dont they?
Second comment I couldnt agree more But how hard is it to make frames weigh the same as the factory ones?
I do agree too that unless its a formula class the bike should look like it did in the factory -thats just common sense for getting the manufacturers/shops behind the teams

[cowpoos]

Good Idea...suzuki replacement for my bikes is $1100 dollars for rear subframe...and re: the weight....I doubt you would make a after market one as light as a factory cast alloy item..the alloys they use in casting these days are full of magnesium..and like shaun states...2kgs of weight?? FFS hard up..I think Nic Cole is the only person who can use that excuse!!
and the late David Jefferies wasn't no half pint figure either!

[FROSTY]

Good Idea...suzuki replacement for my bikes is $1100 dollars for rear subframe...and re: the weight....I doubt you would make a after market one as light as a factory cast alloy item..the alloys they use in casting these days are full of magnesium..and like shaun states...2kgs of weight?? FFS hard up..I think Nic Cole is the only person who can use that excuse!!
and the late David Jefferies wasn't no half pint figure either!
Dude if the subframe is made as I would imagine it would be just enough to support the rider. No need for the rest

[Shaun]

Good Idea...suzuki replacement for my bikes is $1100 dollars for rear subframe...and re: the weight....I doubt you would make a after market one as light as a factory cast alloy item..the alloys they use in casting these days are full of magnesium..and like shaun states...2kgs of weight?? FFS hard up..I think Nic Cole is the only person who can use that excuse!!
and the late David Jefferies wasn't no half pint figure either!



mmmm some think so, some think NOT- So I am done with this now, cannot be bothered with the negatives anymore

[Ivan]

If theres a vote for it im in.
To be honest man we need to stop being so negative.
We need to stop thinking but it will allow for miss confusion
Blah Blah

Like Shaun and CowPoos said Harden up its 2kgs wopdy shit
What next someone gonna complain because Joe Blogs brougt a carbon fibre muffle rthats 2kgs lighter than myne,

If we look at everythng negative racings screwed

Sorry

Rant over

[FROSTY]

For the record I personally think cheaper to replace subframes are a friggin fantastic idea. Just as good an idea as cheap fibreglass fairings.
The point about weight was to counter the 100% certain objection from some quarters.
Lets face it how can there be an objection if they do the same basic job and their is no aerodynamic or weight advantage.:devil2:

[evol mas]

im for aftermarket home and made sub frames cheeper by far for crash repairs and for all your bickering over weight seriously !!!!
as shaun has said the diffrence between an aloy/titanium whatever you wana build it from and a standard subframe is f*#k all when you consider i weigh 60 kgs driping wet and im not even the lightest lad out there!!
no offence intended here but whats 1 kgs worth ov subframe vs 10 15 20 kgs worth of you? just remember not trying to offend any one here !!just trying to proove a point
stop trying to be so compeditive and just go out and have fun thats what its suposed to be abowt!! fun

[Hellraiser]

Why don't bikes have a minimum weight including rider like most other motor sports do?

[svr]

Why don't bikes have a minimum weight including rider like most other motor sports do?

1. Adding 40kg of ballast to a motorcycle so 60 kg Sam Love will race a 100kg rugby prop on an even footing is impractical
2. The car combined weight rule keeps rich fat bastards racing cars where they belong (and make rules like this)
3. It gives all of us who were too small at school to play proper sports a chance to get one back on the the jocks who used to take my er I mean our lunch money.

No brainer?

My old SV has a heavy steel rearvsub-frame and would lose about 5kg if swapped for a Billy special... Hmm better than giving up beer!

[evol mas]

1. Adding 40kg of ballast to a motorcycle so 60 kg Sam Love will race a 100kg rugby prop on an even footing is impractical
2. The car combined weight rule keeps rich fat bastards racing cars where they belong (and make rules like this)
3. It gives all of us who were too small at school to play proper sports a chance to get one back on the the jocks who used to take my er I mean our lunch money.

No brainer?

My old SV has a heavy steel rearvsub-frame and would lose about 5kg if swapped for a Billy special... Hmm better than giving up beer!

haha amen to that nooo not the beer!!!!

[svr]

Sam - tape up ya dodgy foot and come racing on Sunday - If ya don't beat me I won't protest ya dodgy sub-frame - Deal?

[koba]

Great idea on being able to buy/make an aftermarket subframe.
As for the weight thing I do think is important because these things can snowball.

Just think american "Stock cars" for the extreme example, originally production based and now the only thing they have in common with production cars is four wheels!