Oh I'm sorry dear, I didn't see you!

[BASS-TREBLE]

Went for a nice ride on the gn yesterday with dad following on his.

Heading towards Whangamata through Waihi from Tga.

We turned right into that road coming of the left hand corner before the actual town and stopped at that little pond thingy and toilets.
Sweet take of towards Whangamata and get on the road and come up to a T intersection. Dads in front so he takes of. I wait for traffic to pass and f*cking bang, all I remember was a crunching noise from behind and being pushed into my topbox.
I turn around to see the the car behind with a smashed headlight and her pointing across the road so I took of and waited for her on the other side.

First words were 'Oh I'm Sorry Dear, I Didn't See You !!!' and how much will it be , I'm not insured.

Long story short she hit my rear fender, smashed my brake light and bent the crap out of the numberplate. So got her details and I'll send her the receipt for what it will cost to repair.

Just another reminder that You should never expect to be seen, even at 2 meters away.

The End.

[Daffyd]

Makes you wonder what you have to do.

[BUNGY]

I fail to see how people can miss something of that size directly in front of them. Imagine if a cat or dog ran across they road, they wouldn't have a chance.

[MsKABC]

Bugger! Hope you have recovered from your shock. Still, at least you were unhurt and your bike was only mildly damaged. A good friend of ours had his bike written off by being rear-ended while stopped at traffic lights. The little b*****d who did it then fled to Australia and never got any punishment. :angry2:

[Jantar]

...First words were 'Oh I'm Sorry Dear, I Didn't See You !!!' and how much will it be , I'm not insured.....

Claim on you own insurance and let them claim from the driver. Otherwise you will pay for the repairs, send her the bill, and receive zilch.

[yod]

:oi-grr:

never ceases to amaze me....

hope it all works out

[Rockbuddy]

didnt see you? probably sending or reading a txt, how can someone not see you at that range what a load of shit excuse

[Zuki Bandit]

I fail to see how people can miss something of that size directly in front of them. Imagine if a cat or dog ran across they road, they wouldn't have a chance.
It's because they arent looking out for motorbikes, they are looking out for cars. So motorcyclists, pedestrians, stray animals etc are pretty much fucked!!!

[notme]

I have had to tootle the horn at people coming up from behind before - they look up from the phone or whatever to see what the noise is and slam on the brakes.

Kinda sucks that I have to be looking in my mirrors to help out people behind me with their situational awareness.....

Be warned, this method works a lot better if you have a Stebel fitted :devil2:

[Dino]

Claim on you own insurance and let them claim from the driver. Otherwise you will pay for the repairs, send her the bill, and receive zilch.


I would do the same, get your insurance involved.

I had an accident a couple of years ago where an old lady pulled out of a park and hit the back of my van as I was going passed. She was very sorry and said she would pay for everything, we exchanged details and I took the names and numbers of witnesses, we were all happy as we left.

Later I got a phone call from her very angry son who thought I had a part to play in the accident and he thought it would be fair to pay for the damage of our own vehicles, I didn't really say much as he was going for it. I hung up from his call and contacted my insurance with witness details and they sorted it out, at no excess to me because it was her fault.

If you have insurance use it, that's why you pay the nasty premiums.

[yungatart]

A good friend of ours had his bike written off by being rear-ended while stopped at traffic lights.

Same thing happened to hXc, but we got the cops involved at the accident scene as we thought there might be some trouble later, we weren't mistaken about that either.
In your case the driver should have be charged with careless use, or at the least, failing to stop in half the available road ahead, or what ever it is...
Glad tyou aren't hurt, but get your iinsurance co on to her. Remorse often doesn't go as far as paying the bill.

[Radar]

A cop-look-alike fluoro vest should cut down the "Sorry dear I didn't see you" occurances. Most won't wear one because it ain't cool but all the safety research says bright vests do help cagers see us.

[paturoa]

Shite, from behind! That sucks.

How the hell didn't she see you - blind?

What did Ralf say to her....

How was the ride home from Paeroa?

[BASS-TREBLE]

Have to say I agree with everyone on whats been said.
paturoa, Yer dad with mum on the back took of from the intersection before me so a lady in a 4wd told them I was hit by a car so he came back in no time. He got her details and even made her pull out her license for proof, yes she looked dodgy.

Ride from paeroa was good, had a chat to a really friendly harley rider, got all intersted in what made me want to risk going on my own etc.

I must say to anyone that hasn't been up 2 coromandel, it is a bloody nice ride even at a slow pace.

[Soul.Trader]

I fail to see how people can miss something of that size directly in front of them. Imagine if a cat or dog ran across they road, they wouldn't have a chance.

Or a child?


A cop-look-alike fluoro vest should cut down the "Sorry dear I didn't see you" occurances. Most won't wear one because it ain't cool but all the safety research says bright vests do help cagers see us.

Careful mate, I got vilified on here for suggesting the very same thing. According to some people, black leathers contrast with the road better than hi-vis vests :rolleyes:

[discotex]

A cop-look-alike fluoro vest should cut down the "Sorry dear I didn't see you" occurances. Most won't wear one because it ain't cool but all the safety research says bright vests do help cagers see us.


Careful mate, I got vilified on here for suggesting the very same thing. According to some people, black leathers contrast with the road better than hi-vis vests :rolleyes:

I take it you both think cars should be painted fluro orange as well to make them more visible?

If you want to make yourself visible drive a 4x4. As has been said a million times (and ignored by yourselves) the most obvious reason for the stats is the fact that nana riders wear orange - NOT that it's more visible.

This is specific to cars but should give you and idea of how impossible it is to say one colour is safer than another - http://www.aaafoundation.org/pdf/CarColorAndSafety.pdf

Guess you won't bother to read it and consider it though.. It's pretty clear you've closed your mind to any reasoned argument to the contrary.


As for the quesiton of how to avoid being rear ended. Right hand wheel track means you are in the line of sight of the driver. If you are turning left don't sit right over to the left of the lane or you're asking for trouble. It'll make a bigger difference than the colour of your gear. And don't forget cars rear-end cars too so sometimes there is nothing you could have done better.

[Katman]

As for the quesiton of how to avoid being rear ended. Right hand wheel track means you are in the line of sight of the driver. If you are turning left don't sit right over to the left of the lane or you're asking for trouble. It'll make a bigger difference than the colour of your gear. And don't forget cars rear-end cars too so sometimes there is nothing you could have done better.

Being rear ended at an intersection is one of the very few accident scenarios that I've struggled to think of any real means of avoidance. Careful positioning at the intersection may well help but, on the other hand, I'm always wary of stopping to far to the right of the lane if turning right at a T junction in case someone chooses to cut the corner.

[Okey Dokey]

Glad that you are okay, sorry about your bike, though! I hope that you don't get left with the cost of repairs. Probably good to let your insurance deal with it, as others have said.

Seems like every day there is another post on kb about some dozy cager hitting a motorbike!

[CookMySock]

Claim on you own insurance and let them claim from the driver. Otherwise you will pay for the repairs, send her the bill, and receive zilch.This is excellent advice. I have had exactly the same thing happen to me. Go to your insurance company first before you touch a thing.

DB

[RT527]

Bummer do ....although I would have Said about 3 000$ for the light, ...it did after all hold sentimental value ...Didnt it?.

[swbarnett]

Glad you're OK.

To keep myself a bit safer at intersections I park myself in the right wheel track so that I'm in direct line of sight in front of the driver. Also, I keep the bike in gear (even when at traffic lights) with one eye forward and one on the mirror. That way I just might be able to get out of the way of anyone approaching from behind. I haven't had to do this myself but have heard tales of this working overseas.


Seems like every day there is another post on kb about some dozy cager hitting a motorbike!
With about 10,000 members and the state of driving in NZ this is not that surprising (although not very nice to hear).

[Soul.Trader]

This is specific to cars but should give you and idea of how impossible it is to say one colour is safer than another - http://www.aaafoundation.org/pdf/CarColorAndSafety.pdf

I wonder if you've actually read that paper, because it generally supports my point of view that (surprise surprise) bright colours are more visible than dark colours. Although the paper itself is only a tiny meta-analysis, it provides references to two correlation studies. Being correlation studies, neither of these were perfect studies, but they seem to support my point of view. For whatever reason, the author of the paper has drawn a contrary conclusion to those of the studies, but I'm more willing to rely on the conclusion of a controlled study than an analysis.


Study 1:
the authors found that light-colored (i.e. white or yellow) cars were slightly less likely to be “passively involved” in crashes. The effect was observed to be strongest during daylight on open roads under less-than-ideal weather conditions. Black cars had the worst record for passive involvement in crashes.


Study 2:
The authors found that silver cars were about half as likely to be involved in crashes resulting in serious injury as white cars, with brown, black, and green cars being roughly twice as likely as white cars to be involved in serious injury crashes.

In any case, no matter what conclusions are drawn in these imperfect studies, the paper clearly illustrates that bright colours are substantially more visible - something a 5 year old could have told me. The big question comes down to whether this causes a reduction in accident rates - to be honest, it doesn't really matter. If you can be more visible, why not? If there's any chance it can reduce your likelihood of being in an accident, why not?

[swbarnett]

If there's any chance it can reduce your likelihood of being in an accident, why not?
Because we all have our own limits. Driving a car would make me more visible but I'm not about to do that in preference to a bike.

I am happy with my visibility. I never expect anyone to see me. I'd be happy on a matt black bike with matt black gear on a dark night in the rain.

[Soul.Trader]

I agree, and I'm a big advocate of personal choice. But someone who tries to seriously suggest they're no less visible in black leather than a hi-vis vest is fooling themselves more than they're fooling me.

[swbarnett]

I agree, and I'm a big advocate of personal choice. But someone who tries to seriously suggest they're no less visible in black leather than a hi-vis vest is fooling themselves more than they're fooling me.
From what I can gather from other threads both camps are right when taken in context.

Yes, colour is easier to see than black under normal circumstances but in the split second where the decision is made to proceed or not the cager's brain doesn't have the time to process colour. What's important is shape and movement (or at least that's what I'm led to believe).

[discotex]

I agree, and I'm a big advocate of personal choice. But someone who tries to seriously suggest they're no less visible in black leather than a hi-vis vest is fooling themselves more than they're fooling me.

You misunderstand... The issue isn't visibility. The issue is whether that actually helps avoid a crash when riding a motorcycle.

I'll go back and answer your other post in a minute.


From what I can gather from other threads both camps are right when taken in context.

Yes, colour is easier to see than black under normal circumstances but in the split second where the decision is made to proceed or not the cager's brain doesn't have the time to process colour. What's important is shape and movement (or at least that's what I'm led to believe).

Exactly... Contrast, movement and size is far more important than colour when deciding if a vehicle is a threat. Motorcycles have lost hope long before choice of colour comes into the equation.

[Soul.Trader]

You are corerct sw - however, the brain only recognises shapes and movements it can quickly identify, which means you need contrast - which is why lime green is a popular choice for high visibility - because it contrasts with most things on the road. Facts are facts, and if people want to ignore those facts and ride on fully blkac gear, then that's absolutely fine as far as I'm concerned. But they will no doubt be the first to bleat on about how other motorists dont see them etc.

[Jantar]

It isn't just a matter of which colour is more visible, its also what is it that the brain picks up as being a threat. Bright colours in random shapes help to disguise the person wearing them, and even though they are easy to spot when that's what you're looking for, they are great camoflage against someone who is just doing a basic scan.

A single solid colour will be picked up quicker than a montage of colours, and black is percieved by the brain to be a possible threat and will often cause a reaction before you even know what you are reacting to.

At night or in poor visibility black becomes a camoflage colour, and reflective stripes will stand out more. So it isn't really which colour? its which colour for the circumstances.

[Japtwin]

Yeah the cage was probably scanning the road she was about to enter for traffic and relying on peripherals to warn her of vehicles ahead, oops bike not big enough to register. Jees that would have scared the crap outta me, bad enough the careless bastards in front/sides doing dumb stuff but getting bombed from behind is ridiculous.
Safe riding and glad u enjoyed the rest of the trip

[swbarnett]

...so I took of and waited for her on the other side.
Might have been a good idea to ascertain the level of damage before taking off.

[discotex]

I wonder if you've actually read that paper

I believe the relevant part is:

Unfortunately,
the relationship between car color and safety is not at all clear, because only two scientific investigations of the matter have been conducted to date, and the authors of both studies admitted that they were not able to draw clear or generalizable conclusions.




The big question comes down to whether this causes a reduction in accident rates - to be honest, it doesn't really matter. If you can be more visible, why not? If there's any chance it can reduce your likelihood of being in an accident, why not?

If there's a chance you could be slightly tired you better not ride. That'll increase your odds of being in an accident far more. Do you ride 30mins either side of sunrise and sunset? There's a proven link between that time and accident rates.

If it doesn't make a difference to your safety why bother wearing fluro? Wouldn't it be better to focus on wearing proper protection that is proven without doubt to stop injury?

Sure I'll give you that it's all about odds but there's lots more people don't do that will improve their odds over high-vis vests.

[Subike]

should the red stop light (the bikes) that was visible because you were stopped been enough to catch her peripheral vision?
You were stationary ? with your brake on?
And I dont think you wee a small target like a cyclist?
I dont think that wearing any "special" colour would have made a difference from the discription of the incident, but maybe lane position possibly could have helped.
What ever, good points from all posts, make for a bit of thought when aproaching controled or uncontoled intersections.
Watch out for dumb folk who drive blind

[sunhuntin]

not to deviate from the thread any more than already has been, but i bought a fluro my first winter on the bike. i wore it when going home from work after 7pm in the rain. i did not notice a decrease of tail gating or being pulled out on by cagers. so i stopped bothering.

[Upgrader]

Frenda mine reckons thjat car drovers think those of us wear hivis are chickins**t and skeered of them. So they more likely to cut us off so forth.. Itsa point of view. I just wear blck cuase it doesnt show dirt but I like ta keep the Softie's lights clean and workin.

[Jantar]

Frenda mine reckons thjat car drovers think those of us wear hivis are chickins**t and skeered of them. So they more likely to cut us off so forth.. Itsa point of view. I just wear blck cuase it doesnt show dirt but I like ta keep the Softie's lights clean and workin.
The BDOTGNZA would appreciate a translation of this statement. :pinch:

[Ixion]

The BDOTGNZA would appreciate a translation of this statement. :pinch:

He sz

"frnd a min rknz doz hu wr hivi r cknsht n skrd o dm so dy + lkly 2 ct uz off n so 4th iza pt of vu i wear blk cz it dznt sho da dirt but I lik 2 kep da softies ltz clkn n wkng"

That help ?

[Boob Johnson]

Just another reminder that You should never expect to be seen, even at 2 meters away.

The End.
But you can be heard at 2 metres













its called a TL thou :clap:

Makes me wanna go fire it up now, loud as buggery with yoshi's on.

If anyone else on the road choses to have a brain fart & not see a 250ish KG mass next to them then they sure as shit are gunna hear you on a bike like a TL, targeting more senses is best.

[hellkat]

I realise this is an old thread now, but a legal point here:

Don't know about here in NZ, but in the UK, "Sorry, I didn't see you" is often used by the solicitors for the claimant (i.e., the biker) as a legal admission of fault, and therefore liability for the accident. If the person who knocks you off or (you believe) causes the accident says that ... then you'd be well advised to take it to your insurer.

And of course your witness - you did have a witness, didn't you? - also heard them say it.

I realise (Bass Treble) that your lady-at-fault here has offered to pay out of her own pocket, but if its a matter of an insurance case, then I would ALWAYS attempt to use their admission that they did not see you, as an admission of liability.