Letting fear control you

[fireball]

As an outdoor instructor i deal with fear everyday, helping my students overcome fear of heights or trust issues getting them out of their comfort zone and discovering what they can do etc

but for myself its another story completely i still have a simple fear that controls me and after pushing myself i still can not overcome this fear

its the simple act of openroad riding and cornering, how can i overcome this fear? i know the basic principals of it all and nail all the basic riding at slow speed figure 8s and U turns all the basics a learner needs to know buts its this next step i cant get, i try to keep relaxed and have to remind myself to relax often

can anyone offer a solution to this?

[Disco Dan]

As an outdoor instructor i deal with fear everyday, helping my students overcome fear of heights or trust issues getting them out of their comfort zone and discovering what they can do etc

but for myself its another story completely i still have a simple fear that controls me and after pushing myself i still can not overcome this fear

its the simple act of openroad riding and cornering, how can i overcome this fear? i know the basic principals of it all and nail all the basic riding at slow speed figure 8s and U turns all the basics a learner needs to know buts its this next step i cant get, i try to keep relaxed and have to remind myself to relax often

can anyone offer a solution to this?

This reminds me a bit of Frosty's thread on fear - having a small amount of fear is good, instead of trying to overcome it completely aim to 'control' your fear.

I think about fight or flight - having too much fear, you run but by controlling it and using it to help you I think is the key.

Hope that helps

[yungatart]

You need to reprogramme your brain...tell yourself, preferably out loud, that you are awesome at open road riding, cornering is a piece of cake etc. You need to do this on a regular basis, as often as possible and especially last thing at night before you go to sleep.
The subconcious can not distinguish fact from fantasy but will act on either, so it is up to you to get it to act on what you want.
The next thing is when you do go for a ride, focus on the successes, no matter how small. Remember the feeling that goes with them, conjure up those feelings in your mind and recreate them.
Take your time, ride with someone you trust who will be able to help you and find a deserted road to play on.
Oh, and have fun!!

[ManDownUnder]

Time in the saddle rriding ttowards the edge of your comfort zone... you'll find it starts to move.

Also - track days (depending on the kind of fear triggers you have). If it's simply speed that holds you back then the track is an awesome safe place to push that boundary.

[Trudes]

You need to reprogramme your brain...tell yourself, preferably out loud, that you are awesome at open road riding, cornering is a piece of cake etc. You need to do this on a regular basis, as often as possible and especially last thing at night before you go to sleep.
The subconcious can not distinguish fact from fantasy but will act on either, so it is up to you to get it to act on what you want.
The next thing is when you do go for a ride, focus on the successes, no matter how small. Remember the feeling that goes with them, conjure up those feelings in your mind and recreate them.
Take your time, ride with someone you trust who will be able to help you and find a deserted road to play on.
Oh, and have fun!!
Totally, mind over matter. I was around at a friend's house a couple of weeks ago and I said to him "I always have trouble moving my bike around because it's so heavy and I feel like I'm going to drop it, I just have no confidence in myself" and he said to me "Just keep telling yourself that it's not really heavy and that you can do it piece of cake" (or something to that effect), so I did, and it helped, so now I have his voice playing in my head everytime I have to move my bike around (Yeah, thanks Andrew!!haha) and....

Time in the saddle rriding ttowards the edge of your comfort zone... you'll find it starts to move.

Also - track days (depending on the kind of fear triggers you have). If it's simply speed that holds you back then the track is an awesome safe place to push that boundary.

this is great advice too!! Practice practrice practhrice and push yourself to do things that scare you a bit without making it so scary that you think, 'Stuff this it's too scary". Good luck chicky!!:cool:

[Kittyhawk]

Tell yourself to focus on the task....push yourself..if you have fear in cornering, go practise on a stretch of road you are familar with and do it in 10km/hr steps working your way up to the speed limit...

Practise...what is it specifically you are scared of, the unknown road around the corner, speed, exposure of being on a bike and not in a car?

[MyGSXF]

Go find a rider training course!!! :2thumbsup

I have done several courses with Andrew & Lynne at www.roadsafe.co.nz & they are bloody brilliant!!! :first::first:

I used to have "issues" :rolleyes: with my front brake.. ie: being too scared to use it to the degree I should have been, in fear of locking it up or flipping myself over the handlebars.. :doh:

Andrew helped talk me through my barrier & encouraged me to pull the lever in harder each time I did a run past him.. & each time I managed to use it more & more.. so that now when I'm out riding my front brake & I are very well acquainted & are firm friends! :hug:

Also learning "how" to corner "correctly" from trained instructors.. makes a HUGE difference :Punk: Learning the correct lines for road riding increased my confidence ten fold! Also keeps me safe by being well away from the centre white line!! :niceone:

As some others have said about reprogramming your brain etc.. you need to replace old thought patterns & habits with new habits.. but "learn" the correct ones.. as Andrew stated.. someone could have been riding for 15 years.. but only actually have 1 years "experience" & 14 years of repeating bad habits! :spanking:

Jen :rockon:

[Duc]

My advice is take your time and "ride within your capabilities" until it all comes together for you.

I still have a basic fear of what 's around the blind bend and will I cope with it if I find it unexpectedly. Its a good control measure.

Confidence grows with time.

BTW : Keep your arms loose. If you are tense, your arms tighten and thats bad for cornering.

[fireball]

Practise...what is it specifically you are scared of, the unknown road around the corner, speed, exposure of being on a bike and not in a car?

i only have one eye my depth perception is a little off and i guess im really scared of not so much coming off but the will my tyres hold me in the lean etc etc

recently ive been riding throught to Hunua through the twisties and that road is shit the first time riding it i was scared of the unknown but now i find it is the fact i lack a fluid motion with the bike (i am on LilSels bike) so its a combination of scared of the unknown and me being pissed off with myself because i know i can ride but i just cant get it...... if that makes sense?

[Kittyhawk]

Before you go out on a ride, do a couple of laps around a block and some figure 8s, just to get the feel of the bike and what it can, cant do.

Alternatively I suggest going on the back with an experienced rider, doing the route you want to do in the future and then see how the bike handles. You'll get a better indication as to how far you can lean it over etc.

[kickingzebra]

Two lifechanging pieces of advice....

Pinned in third (courtesy Tim Gibbes)

When in doubt, do a wheelie... (KB random archive)

[Krayy]

First thing is to make sure you have some good gear on. It's a wonder what a pair of armoured trousers does for your confidence.

The next part is to do the Bronz Ride Right, Ride Safe course where its in controlled conditions, and on Whenuapai airbase the amount of grip available is incredible. You couldn't come off if you tried, well you could, but you'd have to try real hard.

After that, find a piece of road that has 2 or 3 sweeping corners, preferably with a small straight between them and go up and down it quite a few times practicing the techniques learned on the course like urn in points, apexes and exit points.

That will get you going then you can look at riding on gravel or in the wet later for a bit of excitement.

[R6_kid]

might seem a bit harsh but maybe it's not for you?

Riding scared isnt the smartest thing to do, the only person that is going to figure out what is making you scared is yourself. Without overcoming that you won't be able to ride safely.

All you will be doing is triggering survival reactions and making it hard for yourself, but telling yourself not to do them is a step in the right direction.

I suggest having a good read of 'twist of the wrist', not to ride faster, but to gain an understanding of what elements of riding can influence difference reactions that will stop you from being able to ride smoothly and without upsetting the bike.

[fireliv]

I know what you are saying fireball, I feel exactly the same way. I agree that good safety gear is a great start, and definatly agree that doing courses is also an awesome idea.
Everytime I take a corner right, I just try to hold on to that thought and feeling and try to do it again. Keep focusing on the positives, cos you will eventally get there!

Good luck

[Ixion]

I always let fear control me when riding. I find it has major advantages, staying alive being not the least of them. Being afraid is a good thing.

Subordinate that fear why examining each element of it and figuring out how you can deal with if it does happen.

Fear: What may lurk around that blind corner? Deal with it - slow down
Fear: My tyres may skid when I am leaned over ? Deal with it - find a safe place and practice leaning over - more and more - until they do skid, or, more likely, something scrapes. You now know how far you can safely go. Lean a bit less than that and all is well (probably- I'm being a bit simplistic here, cambers and bumps and suchlike can affect this, but the principle is the same)

[xwhatsit]

Get a full-face helmet and some earplugs.

[CookMySock]

[....] but for myself its another story completely i still have a simple fear that controls me and after pushing myself i still can not overcome this fear - its the simple act of openroad riding and cornering, how can i overcome this fear?Make sure that your bike is completely 100%. I had my bike ridden by an experienced rider, and it's unstable past a certain angle of lean. He was not surprised that I was having fear issues, as so was he !! So make sure it's set up fully for you by someone who knows their stuff.

As to the fear, if you are hitting your angle-of-lean limit then you and I am in the same boat :hug:

So here's what I am trying - physically lean off the bike - start small ! Left corner - smoothly move your chin to the left over your left-side of the screen(or some other nearby landmark) and sit on your left bum cheek. Do this a second or two before entering the corner, enter the corner, now look up and out of the corner and relax and countersteer. Rinse-and-repeat for the right turn.

Keep your speed down. Don't approach your comfort zones until your fear begins to drop back.

Experiment! Mid corner, if you feel your fear growing, then move your chin out further. Concentrate - countersteering - you already know this bit so just do it as usual. Breathe. Relax.

Soon you will notice cornering is much less stressful are more controlled, and more fun!! :devil2:

How has this affected me ? The bike feels more stable and I feel more in control of it. The steering is lighter and I'm not gripping the bars - rather relaxing and steering with a light pressure. I have discovered that countersteering works very well indeed anywhere - particularly mid-sweeper with quiiiiiite a lot of lean on - so try it with a bit of lean added and you hopefully will discover a new world of cornering bliss. Now I'm finding I am competent in open road corners at 140, 70k corners at 120 ish, and 65k corners at 100k ish. I'm not comfortable and relaxed at these speeds though, and a couple of corners and I'm backing down.

best. chill.
DB

[jrandom]

Blah, blah, blah.

One answer: trackdays.

You don't have an appropriate bike to ride, so call MotoTT and book their KR150 or CBR400.

The fear you're feeling is your eminently-rational brain telling you that what you're doing carries the risk of serious injury or death, and not allowing you to push into the unknown.

It's a good fear.

You know that it's unnecessarily severe, though, and want to be able to ride faster while remaining relaxed, right?

So put yourself in a situation where you can practice riding quickly and safely with a guaranteed perfect high-traction surface and no chance of hitting something nasty if you fall off and go for a slide, and you'll discover the next time you're out on the road that your 'known performance envelope' just expanded significantly.

A single trackday is worth six weeks of daily focused roadriding.

Go do one.

[tone_crafter]

Go find a rider training course!!! :2thumbsup

I have done several courses with Andrew & Lynne at www.roadsafe.co.nz & they are bloody brilliant!!! :first::first:

I used to have "issues" :rolleyes: with my front brake.. ie: being too scared to use it to the degree I should have been, in fear of locking it up or flipping myself over the handlebars.. :doh:

Andrew helped talk me through my barrier & encouraged me to pull the lever in harder each time I did a run past him.. & each time I managed to use it more & more.. so that now when I'm out riding my front brake & I are very well acquainted & are firm friends! :hug:

Also learning "how" to corner "correctly" from trained instructors.. makes a HUGE difference :Punk: Learning the correct lines for road riding increased my confidence ten fold! Also keeps me safe by being well away from the centre white line!! :niceone:

Jen :rockon:

Can anyone suggest a similar good training school in Auckland? I have been riding now for about 12 months and am looking to improve my road skills (especially open road).

[avgas]

Life 101 - look where you want to go, and you will go there.
Fear never comes into it, it merely distracts you from looking.

Some of the wisest advice i have ever received. It was initially applied to racing, from a racer i respected. But he said if you apply it to every aspect of life you will succeed there too.

[90s]

i only have one eye my depth perception is a little off and i guess im really scared of not so much coming off but the will my tyres hold me in the lean etc etc

recently ive been riding throught to Hunua through the twisties and that road is shit the first time riding it i was scared of the unknown but now i find it is the fact i lack a fluid motion with the bike (i am on LilSels bike) so its a combination of scared of the unknown and me being pissed off with myself because i know i can ride but i just cant get it...... if that makes sense?

Don't push through your fear-barrier 'just because' you feel you should. And the first time you ride a road expect to have to go slow, as anything could be around that corner - and how tight is that corner?

And remember, you never really ride the same road twice.

Instead of trying to ride faster, concentrate on enjoying yourself at a slower more even pace, and gradually you will start to speed up and become more fluid naturally. (this is not the advice to take if you want to be a 'road racer' however ... )

[90s]

Can anyone suggest a similar good training school in Auckland? I have been riding now for about 12 months and am looking to improve my road skills (especially open road).

RRRS.

I am assuming also that fireball has basic CS skills etc, otherwise I would recommend the RRRS course for everyone. Good point earlier about riders with 15 yrs exp. having 14 yrs. experience of bad habbits - I was impressed on that course (I've done it twice) that the mix is between 250-riders & those who have 15-25yrs exp. and all learn from it.

[HungusMaximist]

Learning new skills and practising is all good but you gotta having that burning desire to step higher.

Set yourself some goals and work towards them.

Like traning for a marathon, you gotta get out of your comfort zone and push yourself a bit.

Other than that I've found nothing boosts the confidence/moral faster than going and picking-up some hot girls. That is if you are successful :msn-wink:

[GaZBur]

Can I ask a few questions.

1. What type of bike do you ride.
2. What tyres and pressures.
3. Has the bike been checked by someone who understands suspension.

The fear you have may be a legitimate self preservation device due to feedback from a crappy handling bike. I have ridden some bikes that scare me in situations I would be laughing at on other bikes. Before you doubt yourself get someone knowlegable to check your bike as it could be the cause of the lack of confidence that is causing your fear!

[fireball]

Can I ask a few questions.

1. What type of bike do you ride.
2. What tyres and pressures.
3. Has the bike been checked by someone who understands suspension.



the bike i am on at the moment is a ZZR250 running 28 in the front 30 in the rear (and the bike as far as i know is set up for LilSel not me....) that i understand i dont expect to be great on her bike as its not what i like to ride but its what ive got till i get my bike back.....

my bike is a GZ250 not sure what the tyres are at this stage its spent more time in the shop than on the road... an i am very comfortable on this bike but i have not had it set up for me suspension wise.... as soon as i get it back from getting the top end rebuilt im selling it and buying brand new bike
looking at a intruder 250 as i have found cruisers are more my style find them easier to ride than the sports and sport tourer

hope that helps

[mstriumph]

Life 101 - look where you want to go, and you will go there.
............... i'm gonna frame this :hug:

[GaZBur]

So you are a newish rider on an unfamiliar bike. My questions were to make sure the problem is really with you and not the bike you are riding. If you can be sure the bike is ok then do what everyone else here is saying as it all sounds reasonable. Sounds like DangerousBastard has just gone through the same thing so what he said maybe.
Good Luck.
Now can anybody rid me of my fear of sharks when I am bodyboarding! I know its my imagination and the chances of attack are less than winning lotto but every time i see a shadow -- errrrghhhh!!!!

[fireball]

So you are a newish rider on an unfamiliar bike.

have been riding for 6 years.... spent most of that time on an FXR150 and in november last year decided to actually get my learners and do it all legal and stuff so in a way i am new to the bike but not new to riding

[toycollector10]

I recommend you buy a small capacity vintage bike, maybe like a Honda CB200 or similar, and thrash that around the hills.

Everyone seems to just get their learner licence or restricted whatever it is out of the way then it's into the dealers for the meanest beast they can find.

You might feel happier on a smaller bike for a while before you gradute up, in steps, to a large powerful bike.

[Jiminy]

The ones that worked best for me are:

- Loosening my arms: usually by leaning a bit more forward when I start being tense in a curve
- Finding the right tyre pressure: on my bike, it's 1psi more at the front than the factory setting and several psi less than what the guys at the shop usually set for me
- Riding the same curvy road over and over again, and trying to remember how I felt the first time I took that road so I can get a sense of improvement

Oh, and doing it on my own first, so no peer pressure.

[erik]

What Duc and 90s said: Don't push yourself. Ride within your limits/comfort zone.

Read the attachments in the first post in this thread:
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=5482
on cornering technique (late apexing) and go ride and practice that.

Also try supporting your weight on the pegs rather than just sitting on the seat, and try shifting your weight around (not mid corner) to see how it affects things.

[Nagash]

my bike is a GZ250 not sure what the tyres are at this stage its spent more time in the shop than on the road... an i am very comfortable on this bike but i have not had it set up for me suspension wise.... as soon as i get it back from getting the top end rebuilt im selling it and buying brand new bike
looking at a intruder 250 as i have found cruisers are more my style find them easier to ride than the sports and sport tourer

hope that helps

Good on you for sticking with the cruisers..

I do a fair bit of open road riding and have found that my wee cruiser can keep up with all the other sporties round corners. It's all a matter of knowing your bike's capabilities especially with cruisers cause when the exhaust starts to scrape.. you don't get any more lean.


I understand the fear of open road riding.. and I would like to recommend to just come on a group ride and just give it a try but group rides really do push riders. Even on the 250 Easter tour we were doing about 130-140 some getting to the 180's only restricted by the capabilities of your bike and you do feel obliged to keep up.

I mean, it'd be perfectly fine for you to sit at the back and then I reckon you'd get over the fear pretty quickly, just make sure you don't let the competitive nature get to you.

First time I was worried, but after say an 8 hour ride round the coro loop, your skills and knowledge of the bike increase by enourmous amounts. Just start easy and you'll automatically push yourself harder as you go.

[fireball]

I understand the fear of open road riding.. and I would like to recommend to just come on a group ride and just give it a try but group rides really do push riders. Even on the 250 Easter tour we were doing about 130-140 some getting to the 180's only restricted by the capabilities of your bike and you do feel obliged to keep up.



and thus why i keep the fuck away from group rides......

[martybabe]

ok. Who are you doing this for, if it's for group riding or for ride outs with a faster mate, stuff em! ask them to pull over every now and then and wait for ya. don't ever be pressurized into riding faster than than you feel is right.It will set you back enormously and ruin what little confidence you have.

If it's for you,great, you've got all the time in the world to improve,step by step.Little by little.Baby steps, you know the routine, you use it with your students.

The bike: It can take weeks to learn and trust a bike,possibly months before your both working together and that's if it's set up right in the first place.

You; this is all about you, nobody's timing ya nobody's taking the piss and no one will expect you to do better than you can. :nono:

The solution; all the above posts are good advice, track days,riding courses etc, for me and the way I learn?..find a good quiet route, good sweeping curves, good surfaces etc.Go out first thing Sunday morning and ride it like a pansy. look for gravel, bubbling tar,junctions,cow trails anything that may be a hazard. Forget your mountain passes and some great road you've heard of this is your road.Ride it again,which is your favourite bend? which bit do you hate? why, whats wrong with your speed/ line/approach/exit. Adjust it, experiment,practice. Build your confidence/ speed,slowly. You'll know when it feels right. ride it till your sick of riding the damn thing and you will own that road.It might take a day a week a fugging year, who's counting. :whocares:

When you are the master of your bike and that road, move on, if you can ride that road well, albeit bored shitless, you can ride another road well and you will.
Good luck mate, don't give in, It's in ya, you just gotta bring it out. :yes:

[PrincessBandit]

Hi FB, any time you're doing Hunua and would like an extra rider for company let me know as I'd be happy to tag along. (Just flick me a pm if you want). When I was getting used to my bike and learning what I could do (and what put me outside my comfort zone) in terms of cornering etc. I stuck to the same route over and over until I gradually became more familiar with it. This in turn has lead to completing the "run" in a more enjoyable way, primarily a smoother ride and (not sooo important to me) quicker. I still tend to be much more cautious on unfamiliar roads, especially when I can't see sufficiently far enough ahead into corners, over rises, etc. By using the same circuit you will start to see the improvements, even if it takes time. Worked for me, so good luck - go for it! :2thumbsup

[discotex]

A single trackday is worth six weeks of daily focused roadriding.


That's 100% correct. I really noticed my riding improve massively after the last trackday.

Cranking it on the track gives you the confidence you know you have reserve cornering left on the road.

[Skyryder]

As an outdoor instructor i deal with fear everyday, helping my students overcome fear of heights or trust issues getting them out of their comfort zone and discovering what they can do etc

but for myself its another story completely i still have a simple fear that controls me and after pushing myself i still can not overcome this fear

its the simple act of openroad riding and cornering, how can i overcome this fear? i know the basic principals of it all and nail all the basic riding at slow speed figure 8s and U turns all the basics a learner needs to know buts its this next step i cant get, i try to keep relaxed and have to remind myself to relax often

can anyone offer a solution to this?


It's not the fear of 'open road riding and cornering,' if you were fearfull of this you would not ride. You need to establish what your fear is before you can over come it.

Phobia's can be overcome but you must understand what this is first.

Skyryder

[CookMySock]

and thus why i keep the fuck away from group rides......oh dear. you need someone at your level, or someone who will just ride with you and sit back. Pity you aren't anywhere near us - we're always doing newbie rides and sittin at or below the speed limit.

DB