Has Motorcycling New Zealand lost all relevance?

[idleidolidyll]

Isn't the idea to get as many different bikes on the racetracks as possible and introduce many new riders to the race tracks?

What gives MNZ? Haven't you learnt anything from the BEARs movement?

Writing the rules to eliminate types of bikes from the formula classes is peurile and small minded. The formula classes are WHERE DIVERSITY BELONGS!

If the jappa sponsors want to prevent supermoto bikes and Euros making dicks of them, write the bloody PRODUCTION rules to suit them but for fucks sake don't destroy motorcycle racing in NZ by fucking up the formula classes.

In my opinion it's time the FIM took a long hard look at NZ and considered a new body to represent racing in this country. The BEARs lesson showed that stepping away from the closed minded bigotry of past MNZ demigods was what the public wanted. For many years the country's biggest race was the Sound of Thunder, it might still be. Why is that MNZ? I'll tell you: it's because we get fucking bored watching the same bikes win all the time and we like to see a wide range of bikes with a chance of taking a prize.

Frankly they might as well write the class rules around the specific dimensions of the Yamasuzkawahondas and be fucking done with it. Hell, go a bit further and limit the last 3 letters of the brand name to uki, aki, aha or nda; it's the same bloody thing.

I also note that some pinhead marshalls are black flagging riders who take their feet off the pegs or slide in/out of corners. These fucking pinheads say it's dangerous. HEY PINHEAD, IT'S MOTORCYCLE RACING, OF COURSE IT'S BLOODY DANGEROUS.

Don't you little minded bigots watch TV?

The BEST riders on the planet slide into and out of corners and take their feet off the pegs to maintain balance! Are you trying to bring Mike Hailwood back from the grave? Sorry, too late; the world has left MNZ behind; it's an anachronism and it needs fundamental change.

Tell me, how does eliminating half the entries from one formula class promote motorcycle racing in NZ?

Answer: it doesn't, it just convinces people like me that MNZ still has its head buried in the sand.

[ManDownUnder]

What gives MNZ? Haven't you learnt anything from the BEARs movement?

Writing the rules to eliminate types of bikes from the formula classes is peurile and small minded.

LOL... errr... if I recall rightly... BEARS was formed to specifically exclude Jap bikes?

... rest of the post... yeah... no issue with it (reluctant agreement in fact... you're a cunt, just not a really bad one)

[Goblin]

Don't you little minded bigots watch TV?
No, they just take the prize money and give empty promises.

Brilliant post III, I agree wholeheartedly! :calm:

[jrandom]

All good-sounding points you make, idleidolidyll, but what precise rules, arrangements for races, etc, are you referring to?

Could you point us specifically to stuff that's gone on in this regard?

[Burrt Badger]

So Idle, has your name been put forward for one of the MNZ Board vacancies??? You obviously want to have some input, so, get off your arse and do something about it, dont just sit there and be vocally critical, because ANYONE can do that!!
As for the Bears movement, other than the The sound of Thunder meeting at Ruapuna, where is it now??? Bears Northern has gone, Bears Central Sound of Thunder has gone. MMMMMMM, interesting?

As for the Motard rules. This was what the competitors wanted. Thats right, the "Road Racers" who wanted to road race. Motards have their own class, if they wish to cross enter into the road race fields, then the Road Race boys should be able to cross enter into the Motard class, just like Jason Easton had to at Paeroa two years ago. Oh, did I mention that he won the motard class that day.

[Maido]

Isn't the idea to get as many different bikes on the racetracks as possible and introduce many new riders to the race tracks?

What gives MNZ? Haven't you learnt anything from the BEARs movement?

Writing the rules to eliminate types of bikes from the formula classes is peurile and small minded. The formula classes are WHERE DIVERSITY BELONGS!

If the jappa sponsors want to prevent supermoto bikes and Euros making dicks of them, write the bloody PRODUCTION rules to suit them but for fucks sake don't destroy motorcycle racing in NZ by fucking up the formula classes.

In my opinion it's time the FIM took a long hard look at NZ and considered a new body to represent racing in this country. The BEARs lesson showed that stepping away from the closed minded bigotry of past MNZ demigods was what the public wanted. For many years the country's biggest race was the Sound of Thunder, it might still be. Why is that MNZ? I'll tell you: it's because we get fucking bored watching the same bikes win all the time and we like to see a wide range of bikes with a chance of taking a prize.

Frankly they might as well write the class rules around the specific dimensions of the Yamasuzkawahondas and be fucking done with it. Hell, go a bit further and limit the last 3 letters of the brand name to uki, aki, aha or nda; it's the same bloody thing.

I also note that some pinhead marshalls are black flagging riders who take thewir feet off the pegs or slide in/out of corners. These fucking pinheads say it's dangerous. HEY PINHEAD, IT'S MOTORCYCLE RACING, OF COURSE IT'S BLOODY DANGEROUS.

Don't you little minded bigots watch TV?

The BEST riders on the planet slide into and out of corners and take their feet off the pegs to maintain balance! Are you trying to bring Mike Hailwood back from the grave? Sorry, too late; the world has left MNZ behind; it's an anachronism and it needs fundamental change.

Tell me, how does eliminating half the entries from one formula class promote motorcycle racing in NZ?

Answer: it doesn't, it just convinces people like me that MNZ still has its head buried in the sand.


I respect everyones opinion but didn't you just say all this in another thread?

[idleidolidyll]

LOL... errr... if I recall rightly... BEARS was formed to specifically exclude Jap bikes?

... rest of the post... yeah... no issue with it (reluctant agreement in fact... you're a cunt, just not a really bad one)

Yes, BEARs WAS created to exclude Jap bikes. Now ask WHY?

As the top cheese in BEARs for two years nationally (National Secretary, now called President), I'll tell you why:

Because the same boring thing was happening then as is happening today. If you didn't have one or two very specific models and manufacturers of bike; you had no chance at all in the race classes as they were written. All those cool bikes and all the diversity was swallowed by sucking up to sponsors and BEARs was a backlash that successfully bought hundreds of race bikes back out of their sheds to race.

Yes, a few BEARs racers specifically hated Japanese bikes but the majority didn't; they just didn't want to be forced to buy them to have fun racing.

In my time at the top, I believe we ran the biggest race meeting in the country; the Christchurch Sound Of Thunder. We drew crowds of up to 20,000 and made a clear profit for the club of over $30k. We also had the best prize money on offer.

In contrast, I went to Pukekohe a few weeks ago: it bored the shit out of me and there were perhaps a couple of hundred spectators at best.

[idleidolidyll]

I respect everyones opinion but didn't you just say all this in another thread?

yes i did but it deserves a specific thread in the racing forum given the fuck up that is racing in this country

[Burrt Badger]

Idle, keep the eye patch on your good eye. You obviously dont want to see what has probably been the best Nationals season of racing we have had for many years. It is on TVOne on April 20th for those interested.

[GaZBur]

Is this what you mean from the online rulebook, which differs from the one we got sent with our competition license.


FORMULA THREE CHAMPIONSHIP REGULATIONS

The Formula 3 Championship class will exist primarily for Production Based machines. The class
listed below (1-1 to 1-5) allows modifications to the machines to be carried out while still keeping a
similar level of performance between machines.
These rules apply to all National Championship and Endurance Championship races. At other
meetings these rules will apply unless varied in the Supplementary Regulations.

A: All motorcycles racing in this class must have a maximum end of handle bar centre
line height of 900mm from the ground.
The measurement is to be taken at the handle bar end with the machine unladen, ie no
rider.
B: Any machine complying with Rule No 34-2-3 and 34-5 is automatically excluded from
entering any Formula 3 event.
Any includes all events whether they are MNZ titled events or not, this is for safety
reasons.
It must not be amended or altered in anyway by the use of Supplementary Reuglations.

If so it seems logical to stop super-motards riding against others due to the radically different lines we sometimes take - which unfortunatley stops me from entering F-3(damn). I would prefer they just said riding F-3 you must keep your feet on the pegs but I can see why you complain as a 950 aint exactly a regular motard bike. Overall though probably a reasonable rule even if it doesn't suit motarders.

[idleidolidyll]

All good-sounding points you make, idleidolidyll, but what precise rules, arrangements for races, etc, are you referring to?

Could you point us specifically to stuff that's gone on in this regard?

I'd say go read the rules like I have for the last week.

Here's a starter: 900mm maximum handlebar height for F3.

A back door way to get rid of supermotos that were kicking arse and cement 10-20 year old 4 cylinder jappas with $10,000 motors on the podium.

The small minded ones also eliminated a whole bevy of specific road bikes with that mindless piece of junk: any sit up bike is now effectively banned.

In F3 they 'allow' unlimited cc single cylinder 4 strokes but then effectively ban 90% of those that would enter with this ridiculous rule.

Frankly, if supermotos were winning the class and doubling the entries, that proves two things: that not so big singles with street wheels make better road race bikes than ancient time bombs with 4 cylinders and too much pork. It also proves that having a good formula class is GOOD for entry numbers which is good for racing.

Another dipshit rule was to limit the number of classes a bike/rider could enter at any one meeting. This is daft. If my bike is eligible for two or more classes, why the fuck should it be banned? Big fields promote racing; little fields destroy it.

These are just a sample, read it yourself and think of the implications with respect to what bikes are available today.

At the same time have a think about the small dicks who want to ban sliding, spinning and balance (the way that Rossi and co ride) and the implications of that.

[idleidolidyll]

So Idle, has your name been put forward for one of the MNZ Board vacancies??? You obviously want to have some input, so, get off your arse and do something about it, dont just sit there and be vocally critical, because ANYONE can do that!!
As for the Bears movement, other than the The sound of Thunder meeting at Ruapuna, where is it now??? Bears Northern has gone, Bears Central Sound of Thunder has gone. MMMMMMM, interesting?

As for the Motard rules. This was what the competitors wanted. Thats right, the "Road Racers" who wanted to road race. Motards have their own class, if they wish to cross enter into the road race fields, then the Road Race boys should be able to cross enter into the Motard class, just like Jason Easton had to at Paeroa two years ago. Oh, did I mention that he won the motard class that day.

Nope, that's what the pissants who whined about being beaten by motards wanted.

And yes, if a road bike is eligible to race in motard then let it race; haven't you seen what yanks do with RD400's? Flat trackers are fucking great motards!

As for putting my hand up, read the post; I have served 2 years at the highest level. What have you and others done?

Will I put my hand up again? I just fucking might, in fact I might start a campaign to scrap MNZ altogether and start anew with something rational and impartial for a change.

[White trash]

I half see your point III but you do have to remember that the rules were changed for F3 at the request of the competitors.

There are more than enough classes for Motards, more in fact at Wanganui than road race classes.

So who's actually hard done by?

[idleidolidyll]

As for the Bears movement, other than the The sound of Thunder meeting at Ruapuna, where is it now??? Bears Northern has gone, Bears Central Sound of Thunder has gone. MMMMMMM, interesting?


Yep, that's a fact and a big part of the reason is because MNZ has the FIM licence. They have used that licence to destroy BEARs whether deliberate or not (definitely deliberate in some cases when I was elected).

MNZ saw BEARs as a threat and refused to learn the lesson that BEARs gave. I see it coming again and perhaps we might even do what speedway has done and eventually tell them to fuck off, hold 'unsanctioned' meetings and take them to the court of human rights if they bleat.

[idleidolidyll]

Idle, keep the eye patch on your good eye. You obviously dont want to see what has probably been the best Nationals season of racing we have had for many years. It is on TVOne on April 20th for those interested.

If that was the best nationals season for many years, MNZ is a failure.

I remember the Marlborough Series; a far better era

[White trash]

Nope, that's what the pissants who whined about being beaten by motards wanted.

And yes, if a road bike is eligible to race in motard then let it race; haven't you seen what yanks do with RD400's? Flat trackers are fucking great motards!

As for putting my hand up, read the post; I have served 2 years at the highest level. What have you and others done?

Will I put my hand up again? I just fucking might, in fact I might start a campaign to scrap MNZ altogether and start anew with something rational and impartial for a change.
Pissants? Because they wanted to have a say in their rules?

From what you're saying, you'd change the rules back and have three quaters of the field leave, essentially creating another motard class.

Getting a bit ranty now aren't we? Might be time to put the bottle away.

[jrandom]

There are more than enough classes for Motards, more in fact at Wanganui than road race classes.

Agreed.

The amount of 'tard racing at Wangavegas constituted a yawnfest. In the end it was little more than a good reason to wander around and find a better viewing point before the next real bike race started.

And, seriously, what was up with that dirt section? Folk don't go to the Boxing Day roadraces to watch bloody motocrossing.

What I would love to see is more motards mixing it up on the track with traditional racebikes. Are the concerns about safety due to the different ways they ride into and out of corners really justified?

[idleidolidyll]

I half see your point III but you do have to remember that the rules were changed for F3 at the request of the competitors.

There are more than enough classes for Motards, more in fact at Wanganui than road race classes.

So who's actually hard done by?

No, they were changed for SOME of the riders. The rule change almost cut fields in half and was a ridiculous piece of jealousy thinly disguised as 'safety' (bullshit).

[idleidolidyll]

Pissants? Because they wanted to have a say in their rules?

From what you're saying, you'd change the rules back and have three quaters of the field leave, essentially creating another motard class.

Getting a bit ranty now aren't we? Might be time to put the bottle away.

I see, so you want to keep jappas winning even though they are not the best bikes on the track. Change the rules to keep jappas on top: fukkin hilarious!

If the motards were winning, they deserved it every bit as much as in line 400's did 10 years ago when they took over the class, every bit as much as jappa 2 strokes did when they started winning F2 etc 'back then'. Changing the rules to keep one type of bike at the top is peurile and smacks of jealousy, small mindedness or sucking up to sponsors dollars.

[idleidolidyll]

Agreed.

The amount of 'tard racing at Wangavegas constituted a yawnfest. In the end it was little more than a good reason to wander around and find a better viewing point before the next real bike race started.

And, seriously, what was up with that dirt section? Folk don't go to the Boxing Day roadraces to watch bloody motocrossing.

What I would love to see is more motards mixing it up on the track with traditional racebikes. Are the concerns about safety due to the different ways they ride into and out of corners really justified?

who needs the dirt part?

I don't. In fact I don't give a damn about it and wouldn't enter a pukka motard race.

However, my old 640 KTM regularly left litre sport bikes sulking in its wake on the road and as a road race bike; it deserved the chance to strut it's stuff.

A whole bunch of motards winning and dominating a field is exactly NO DIFFERENT to seeing a bunch of Yamazookis always winning F1.

The real yawnfest is watching the same boring jappas over and over again.

Best sport of all is watching Stephen Briggs fuck them up for 2 or 3 laps on the Superduke, sliding and spinning a ROAD BIKE the way the best riders in the world can.

[jrandom]

... sucking up to sponsors dollars.

Sponsors keeping motards out of F3? I doubt that this is the case. What sponsors are there that give a flying fuck about whether 400s, 650s or motards are winning?

If the motards are winning, that's what they'll put their stickers on.

I just don't see the motivation. The 400s are all ancient shitheaps that are being expensively rebuilt year by year, not 'win on Sunday, sell on Monday' bikes like the ones that race in F1 and F2, so I don't imagine that much of the small amount of 'official' attention that's available in this country from Suzondasakihaha is given to the IL4s in F3.

The only motivation I see for keeping motards out of F3 comes from the riders.

[idleidolidyll]

The only motivation I see for keeping motards out of F3 comes from the riders.

Before the new rules kicked them out, F3 was almost half motard. Now it's a fucking bore again full of expensive outdated crap.
The 'riders' with the biggest whines won the day and motorcycle racing in NZ lost.

As for sponsors keeping motards out of F3, you're reading what you want to see and not what I wrote. MNZ has always sucked up to the sponsors and it has never been transparent. How else did those 'production' wire wheel katanas ever get away with burgling proddy races way back then?
Suzuki Japan never produced the 120HP wire wheels; they were a cheat from start to finish and should have been banned and their results nullified. They weren't of course, wonder why?

[Goblin]

I half see your point III but you do have to remember that the rules were changed for F3 at the request of the competitors.So which competitors requested this? I bet it wasn't any of the Motard riders.

There are more than enough classes for Motards, more in fact at Wanganui than road race classes.

So who's actually hard done by?Well I felt a wee bit hard done by when the Motards were excluded from F3.


Agreed....


What I would love to see is more motards mixing it up on the track with traditional racebikes. Are the concerns about safety due to the different ways they ride into and out of corners really justified?I dont believe they are justified. It's more to do with roadracing bike riders being humiliated by being beaten by chookchasers. I have raced with Motards, watched from my flag point and seen hours of footage of street and road racing. Motards only take different lines when they're passing other bikes. Exactly the same as any other bikes.

[HDTboy]

I signed the petition to remove motards from F3 after being pushed extremely wide going around one exiting the last corner at Manfeild, and nearly collecting the end of the pit wall.

[flame]

who needs the dirt part?

I don't. In fact I don't give a damn about it and wouldn't enter a pukka motard race.

However, my old 640 KTM regularly left litre sport bikes sulking in its wake on the road and as a road race bike; it deserved the chance to strut it's stuff.

A whole bunch of motards winning and dominating a field is exactly NO DIFFERENT to seeing a bunch of Yamazookis always winning F1.

The real yawnfest is watching the same boring jappas over and over again.

Best sport of all is watching Stephen Briggs fuck them up for 2 or 3 laps on the Superduke, sliding and spinning a ROAD BIKE the way the best riders in the world can.

um....sorry to butt in, but it seems your arguement is more about race bike style rather than bike brand or origen.

Dont get me wrong, I LOVE BEARs, and would have to agree that Sound Of Thunder 2008 was the best ever race meeting Ive raced at. And watching Briggsy is pretty dam cool! But there are Jappa motards as well, and there are also BEARS sportsbikes in the front bunch of most F2 and Supersport races. So not quite sure what your gripe is here? (Jappa,v BEARs, bla bla bla)

Anyhoo....as ya were :rockon:

[Robert Taylor]

Idle, keep the eye patch on your good eye. You obviously dont want to see what has probably been the best Nationals season of racing we have had for many years. It is on TVOne on April 20th for those interested.

Its always fascinating how some use expletives very zealously to get their point across. I am just as guilty of occassionally using such words but do so with regulation. Its a shame how the English language has now been so bastardised.

[Goblin]

I signed the petition to remove motards from F3 after being pushed extremely wide going around one exiting the last corner at Manfeild, and nearly collecting the end of the pit wall.But that could have occurred with any bike. I ran wide in turn one at a PMCC race and nearly took out a few riders so should ZXR400s be excluded too??

[jrandom]

I ran wide in turn one at a PMCC race...

Ban female racers!

:2thumbsup

[flame]

Ban female racers!

:2thumbsup

Just coz YOUR to chicken shit to come get your arse whipped by us:innocent:;)

[HDTboy]

But that could have occurred with any bike. I ran wide in turn one at a PMCC race and nearly took out a few riders so should ZXR400s be excluded too??
Were you going sideways trying to put power down?

Ban female racers!

:2thumbsup

What he said!

[idleidolidyll]

um....sorry to butt in, but it seems your arguement is more about racing style rather than bike brand or origen.

Dont get me wrong, I LOVE BEARs, and would have to agree that Sound Of Thunder 2008 was the best ever race meeting Ive raced at. And watching Briggsy is pretty dam cool! But there are Jappa motards as well, and there are also BEARS sportsbikes in the front bunch of most F2 and Supersport races. So not quite sure what your gripe is here?

Nope, please go back and read it all.

It's about MNZ turning racing into a joke. I'd be happy to see a Honda motard kick arse, or a hotted up Yammy MT03 teach F3 racers a lesson etc. It's not about style; it's about rules designed to pander to some at the expense of others.

As I said, if I wanted to ride a Yammy MT03 because my back is welded together at 3 vertebrae, I couldn't race it in F3 because the stupid rule against handlebars above 900mm prevents me. Same goes for the KTM 690 Duke.

Both are road bikes and definitely NOT motards or off road bikes.

It's not about style or any one dumb rule, it's about decades of MNZ 'group think' that keeps them as closed minded as ever.

Again: the Formula classes were originally designed to increase diversity but MNZ's Formula class rules reduce it.

Bring back proper proddy racing and let the manufacturers wank over those but don't let them steal the Formula classes where enterprising Kiwi racers used to be able to build race bikes from anything and created a spectacle for us all to see and enjoy.

Remember, the Britten started out as a Ducati engine in a home made frame (Mike Brosnan's MK1 Britten the Aero de Zero): the very essence of the formula classes!

[Ivan]

No, they were changed for SOME of the riders. The rule change almost cut fields in half and was a ridiculous piece of jealousy thinly disguised as 'safety' (bullshit).

Nothing has said these bikes ant race they just need to modify there bikes to suit the rules eg make clipon bars etc.
Rule Change cutting fieldsin half??? Id like to see were at Vic Club after the rule change the F3 Field was over subscribed and classes like street stock had to be bummped from riding in it because the fields were to big.

Having raced with Motards,
I raced my RS125 in a F3 race and a motard came past it aint a nice feeling having a guy on the outside of you with his bars rubbing on your shoulder!
The rules are rules
Rules are for safety!

In my very few years of racing Ive been at meetings were riders have died and clubs need to develop rules after each oneof these incidents to make it safer.

And calling guysPissants aint gonna get your point across most guys would just think your a aragent dickhead not saying you are just you need to change the way you speak about people its not political at all.

If trying to get your point across on this site I have found using words toabuse riders eg Fuckwit etc doesnt normally help and people see that and say well Im not reading this prats thread

[jrandom]

Just coz YOUR to chicken shit to come get your arse whipped by us:innocent:;)

Just you wait, sunshine. I have a perfectly good racebike that I may just decide not to sell this year.

The Snail ain't good for nowt but Clubmans, though. Maybe MNZ should start a separate SRAD 750 class?

:clap:

[idleidolidyll]

I signed the petition to remove motards from F3 after being pushed extremely wide going around one exiting the last corner at Manfeild, and nearly collecting the end of the pit wall.

and i've pushed riders wide when racing my ducati and been pushed wide by other bikes trying to keep me behind, i've been leaned on and slid into: that's called racing and it aint that they are motards, it's that they are BETTER riders and better race bikes and you just don't like it.

[Goblin]

Ban female racers!

:2thumbsup


Just coz YOUR to chicken shit to come get your arse whipped by us:innocent:;):laugh: You got that right chickie!!!

[Unit]

Best sport of all is watching Stephen Briggs fuck them up for 2 or 3 laps on the Superduke, sliding and spinning a ROAD BIKE the way the best riders in the world can.
We bought the same Superduke Stephen rides with a view to more track days, and perhaps moving on to racing (agree re watching Stephen and the Superduke). That got swapped for the Brutale R, another upright naked. Sourcing all the information we can it still seems quite confusing as to what classes it would be best in. And, trialling on the track, couldnt keep up on the longer straights with the Jappas but hell, in the corners this thing more than keeps up. So does that deem it more dangerous because the corners is where these bikes come into their own?
It seems to me there is
a: A lot of knowledge here about the 'politics' of the sport, which of course is always subjective with fact tossed in, and issues I know nothing about
b: a much wider variety of bikes around these days, and newer classes of bikes becoming far more popular like the upright nakeds, and of course the motards now holding the publics attention more.
How old are the current establishment rules we are subject to?
Maybe it is time to bring it up to the current days climate if its not catering for what is popular today.

[merv]

Toby Summers did pretty good on his mere Jappa motard from what I remember.

Anyway enough of Bears vs Jappa, I am one that thinks leave the dirt bikes mainly on the dirt. I found the 'tards at Wanganui a right bore - 1 race maybe OK but not 2 classes and so many damn races.

However, watching dirt bikes on the dirt at the Legends of Dirt, now that was a good meeting but very poorly supported by the public. Geez we can't win eh!

I loved the Marlboro series too, but nothing we do seems to recreate it. People just have too many leisure choices these days, I think that is the issue so it takes something really special to generate the crowds.

Crikey even Rock 2 Wellington wasn't fully sold out from what I gather.

[HDTboy]

What other western country runs motards on the same track on the same day as road bikes? Let alone in the same race?

[FROSTY]

Sorry Il but I also have an issue with motards in the formula classes.
The lines motards take are so radically different from road race lines it was literally an accident waiting to happen.
By radically I don't mean variations in individual style either.
The one clear exception was the guy out on a honda 650? single.
He took normal road race lines and other than the fact he had lean angles that had me totally stunned was a pleasure to ride against.
For the record the handlebar height rules DONT exclude nakeds.-most have sub 900mm bars.

[98tls]

Bring back proper proddy racing and let the manufacturers wank over those but don't let them steal the Formula classes where enterprising Kiwi racers used to be able to build race bikes from anything and created a spectacle for us all to see and enjoy.
Amen to that,to me anyway there the very essence of kiwi motorcycling,mind you ask the average kiwi what number 8 wire is these days and he will say it "plugs into the computer)

[Goblin]

Were you going sideways trying to put power down?I wish! Ask Jill about it.:shutup:

[idleidolidyll]

Nothing has said these bikes ant race they just need to modify there bikes to suit the rules eg make clipon bars etc.

I've got welded up vertebrae, why the fuck should I be forced to change my bike into something uncomfortable just because of a bunch of whiners pissed at losing?

Rule Change cutting fieldsin half??? Id like to see were at Vic Club after the rule change the F3 Field was over subscribed and classes like street stock had to be bummped from riding in it because the fields were to big.

Fucking great! That's what MNZ should AIM for! Classes so fucking big they have to run heats instead of miserable undersubscibed classes where one type of bike gets to write the rules to keep it at the top. Add those 30 motards and the class would be fucking awesome!

Having raced with Motards,
I raced my RS125 in a F3 race and a motard came past it aint a nice feeling having a guy on the outside of you with his bars rubbing on your shoulder!
The rules are rules
Rules are for safety!

Bullshit. That aint any different to having Robert Holden etc come screaming past you sliding the front into the corner and spinning the wheel out or watching Chris Haldane hoist his back wheel up in the air and wave it around a couple of feet as he used to do at Wanganui.
The guys who can do these things are just more skillful and they DESERVE to win.

In my very few years of racing Ive been at meetings were riders have died and clubs need to develop rules after each oneof these incidents to make it safer.

LOTS of us have been at races where people have died, that's racing and turning motrorcycling into PC bullshit is lying to yourself: it's a dangerous sport and we do it with that knowledge in mind. The final rule change in your scenario is that we turn into Switzerland where motorsport is banned because "it's too dangerous".

And calling guysPissants aint gonna get your point across most guys would just think your a aragent dickhead not saying you are just you need to change the way you speak about people its not political at all.

ya think i give a shit?

If trying to get your point across on this site I have found using words toabuse riders eg Fuckwit etc doesnt normally help and people see that and say well Im not reading this prats thread

ya think i give a shit?

[idleidolidyll]

For the record the handlebar height rules DONT exclude nakeds.-most have sub 900mm bars.

they exclude a lot of them; far too many. it's PC bullshit and so is the "they take different lines" whine.

I used different lines, radically different lines, on my mates Ducati F1 to clean up BEARs at Manfield and the WSB in 92'; nobody complained then. I learnt that from many people INCLUDING the current head of MNZ! That's what makes bike racing watchable; unlike boring F1 cars where they DO all take the same lines.

The most boring thing on the planet is watching 30 motorbikes all take the same damned line.

[idleidolidyll]

What other western country runs motards on the same track on the same day as road bikes? Let alone in the same race?

you wanna be like everyone else?

sorry, i reject cloning

[idleidolidyll]

New Zealand pretty much invented the World Superbikes; different is good

[HDTboy]

you wanna be like everyone else?

sorry, i reject cloning

If being like everyone else means getting spectators through the gates, producing world champions, club racers getting prize money, manufacturers having contingency money available for race winners, then what is it that you're against? Civilisation? Development?

[Goblin]

Sorry Il but I also have an issue with motards in the formula classes.
The lines motards take are so radically different from road race lines it was literally an accident waiting to happen.
But I have to disagree...Motards DONT take different lines. Have a look at any of the street races and really LOOK at the lines they take. Everybody takes the lines available at the time and if a Motard rider can out-brake, out-corner, duck up the inside or whatever, then that is what racing is all about. Handlebar height is a crock!

[idleidolidyll]

If ya want a nice 'safe' sport, go play tiddly winks.

Me, I ride for the excitement and I accept the danger, fucked if I want it wrecked by PC bullshit.

[idleidolidyll]

If being like everyone else means getting spectators through the gates, producing world champions, club racers getting prize money, manufacturers having contingency money available for race winners, then what is it that you're against? Civilisation? Development?

oh dear, logical fallacies galore!

we produced LOTS of international winners BEFORE they fucked up formula racing.
BEARs had the biggest prize money on offer for years!
Crowds in the 'dangerous 70's' dwarfed todays crowds!

[idleidolidyll]

But I have to disagree...Motards DONT take different lines. Have a look at any of the street races and really LOOK at the lines they take. Everybody takes the lines available at the time and if a Motard rider can out-brake, out-corner, duck up the inside or whatever, then that is what racing is all about. Handlebar height is a crock!

smart girl!

Sliding into corners only works on the slowest corners where getting the back end lined up with the straight as fast as possible overcomes corner speed advantages. More open corners are better taken the old fashioned way.

Smart riders (winners) know that taking the same line as the guy in front guarantees you won't pass him/her. To win you need to learn to take all the worst lines as fast as you can and use them whenever you need to.

[HDTboy]

What date did "they" fuck up formula racing?

I love the idea of "run what you brung", I do hate chequebook racing, and I dislike sharing a track with bikes coming at me sideways enough to put pen to paper, and sign a sheet to ask for their removal.
Hey! If you want them brought back, why not start an opposing petition? See how many people will gladly sign it with smiles on their faces? Obviously you weren't at any of the race meetings where these petitions were being signed

[idleidolidyll]

and I dislike sharing a track with bikes coming at me sideways enough to put pen to paper, and sign a sheet to ask for their removal.


Yep, I can see you whining after Rossi came sliding past, takes your line, spins up and slides out leaving you trembling in his wake complaining to the marshals that he should be banned because it's just bloody dangerous..................ha!ha!ha!

[jrandom]

I dislike sharing a track with bikes coming at me sideways...

You wouldn't like racing with me; I'd probably spend half the time coming at you upside down.

[dangerous]

Burrt Badger, White Trash ya on to it... III well as your profile says you havnt raced since the 90's well these days the motards are a bit different.. I have and DO race with these bikes and Im all for them having there own class, I was involved while racing the Buell last year (maybe the year before) where a retard caused a acco putting 2 road bikes down, he took a different line and cut them off I ran over the riders.

Motards belong in their own class

[stanko]

Why not run the motards off the back of F1 they wouldnt bother anyone untill lap4 or 5 on most tracks.
Wasnt there a 20 page thread featuring the modest Mr Idyl about a year ago saying the same crap just without so much venom.

Who was the rider 2 years ago at the nelson street races who spent the whole riders briefing moaning about the Motard rules, so none of the saftey shit was covered (I dont actually know , but he had a KTM motard)

Comon Feel the Love

[Goblin]

In my very few years of racing Ive been at meetings were riders have died and clubs need to develop rules after each one of these incidents to make it safer.
So how many of these fatalities were caused by Motard riders taking different lines? Motorcycle racing IS a dangerous sport! Riding on the ROAD is dangerous too. Same with sidecars...should long chairs and short ones be separated too?

[HDTboy]

Yep, I can see you whining after Rossi came sliding past, takes your line, spins up and slides out leaving you trembling in his wake complaining to the marshals that he should be banned because it's just bloody dangerous..................ha!ha!ha!

Seems I don't have them

[jrandom]

Seems I don't have them

That's not what I heard from the previous owner of my SRAD.

[idleidolidyll]

When F3 riders change the rules as they did it creates a self fulfilling prophesy.

The more alternate bike/rider combos they can force out of the sport /ortheir class, the more they can say "all F3 riders are for these rules"

That of course excludes all the motarders etc who now can't ride F3 and therefore have no voice.

My suggestion to you all is to do what BEARs did in reverse: If your precious hand grenades are so fukkin special, go start a club of your own and don't fuck up the formula classes with your fraidy cat bullshit.

[scracha]

Yep, I can see you whining after Rossi came sliding past, takes your line, spins up and slides out leaving you trembling in his wake complaining to the marshals that he should be banned because it's just bloody dangerous..................ha!ha!ha!
Different bikes designed for different lines. If you had your way we'd be dodging bloody sidecars. It'd be a bit like putting a V8 supercar in the middle of an A1GP race.

Anyway, proper motard racing (as per the French who invented the sport) has dirt sections with jumps etc... NZ "motard" racing is just super motards playing on tarmac.

MNZ is a crock of shit...many of us agree with that but spitting tacks and ranting about bears, jappers, motards and implying that most of the current F3 field are whingers who don't deserve to be there on their knackered old 400's isn't gonna win ya any friends.

[FROSTY]

Yep, I can see you whining after Rossi came sliding past, takes your line, spins up and slides out leaving you trembling in his wake complaining to the marshals that he should be banned because it's just bloody dangerous..................ha!ha!ha!
Actually dude strictly from my point of view here.
My objection was that on way more than one occasion I was forced to make a simple decision. HIT the guy or stop.It really was that simple. I chose the option that kept both of us alive.
Slow corners for a motard (seriously please correct me if I'm wrong) -straight line in foot out on the ground turn, point -squirt
Trouble is just at that turn/point stage they are going bloody slowly and are at right angles to a rider taking a "normal" line.

[idleidolidyll]

Burrt Badger, White Trash ya on to it... III well as your profile says you havnt raced since the 90's well these days the motards are a bit different.. I have and DO race with these bikes and Im all for them having there own class, I was involved while racing the Buell last year (maybe the year before) where a retard caused a acco putting 2 road bikes down, he took a different line and cut them off I ran over the riders.

Motards belong in their own class

do you really believe there weren't chook chasers racing with us back in the day?

har! har! har! har! har! best of all was the one armed kwaka rider on his chooky pissing over 90% of the field with 'wild lines and crazy wheelies'

it aint really any different today

wanna game of tiddly winks? fuk'd if i do

[HDTboy]

Hey! If you want them brought back, why not start an opposing petition? See how many people will gladly sign it with smiles on their faces? Obviously you weren't at any of the race meetings where these petitions were being signed
Shall I repeat myself?

That's not what I heard from the previous owner of my SRAD.
He's not idleidleidle though, so what would he know?

[idleidolidyll]

Actually dude strictly from my point of view here.
My objection was that on way more than one occasion I was forced to make a simple decision. HIT the guy or stop.It really was that simple. I chose the option that kept both of us alive.
Slow corners for a motard (seriously please correct me if I'm wrong) -straight line in foot out on the ground turn, point -squirt
Trouble is just at that turn/point stage they are going bloody slowly and are at right angles to a rider taking a "normal" line.

all you're talking about is what some have always done since Kenny Roberts started sliding his Yammy back in 1980.
He won 3 world champs didn't he? I remember Barry Sheene complaining about him back then; Barry was the loser of course.

Hell, even a half arsed local boy like me used to square up the corner on my Hondog CBR and Duke 750 by sliding the damn thing.

[jrandom]

All right, here's a question for y'all.

Why don't the different 'formula classes' simply state engine displacement / cylinder configuration rules, and leave everything else wide open?

III wants to go back to that situation - I'd like to know the real reason why it isn't the case already.

Seems to me that all the cruft aside from that just detracts from the fun of it.

Obviously such open classes will inevitably result in chequebook racing (and who would want to go without the spectacle of carefully-developed superbikes shaving milliseconds off the lap records every season, anyway) so a bit of clever thinking should be able to come up with minimal rules for alternative classes that allow competitive racing for newer riders, folk on a budget and anyone with an odd compulsion to race on bikes from a particular manufacturer regardless of the bike's speed. Streetstock, ProTwins and BEARS - all very sound ideas for different reasons.

Seriously, why is there all this bollocks about feet staying on pegs, handlebars not being too high, wheel rims needing to be a certain diameter, et cetera?

[FROSTY]

all you're talking about is what some have always done since Kenny Roberts started sliding his Yammy back in 1980.
He won 3 world champs didn't he? I remember Barry Sheene complaining about him back then; Barry was the loser of course.

Hell, even a half arsed local boy like me used to square up the corner on my Hondog CBR and Duke 750 by sliding the damn thing.
Its not the same thing and you darn well know it.
So lets just get this straight>you wouldn't have an issue then with me racing my SV650 at a bears meeting?

[idleidolidyll]

Different bikes designed for different lines.

yep, that's called finding thew winning formula. every manufacturer looks for that advantage

If you had your way we'd be dodging bloody sidecars.

now you're just being sily

It'd be a bit like putting a V8 supercar in the middle of an A1GP race.

bullshit, it's more like putting Rossi in with Mike Hailwood

Anyway, proper motard racing (as per the French who invented the sport) has dirt sections with jumps etc... NZ "motard" racing is just super motards playing on tarmac.

so what? if a motard goes faster around a road circuit; by definition it's the better road racer

MNZ is a crock of shit...many of us agree with that but spitting tacks and ranting about bears, jappers, motards and implying that most of the current F3 field are whingers who don't deserve to be there on their knackered old 400's isn't gonna win ya any friends.

i'm not trolling for buddies

[idleidolidyll]

Its not the same thing and you darn well know it.
So lets just get this straight>you wouldn't have an issue then with me racing my SV650 at a bears meeting?

good grief!

now that's just dumb

[dangerous]

Wasnt there a 20 page thread featuring the modest Mr Idyl about a year ago saying the same crap just without so much venom.



yeah I believe ther was... same shit different day


do you really believe there weren't chook chasers racing with us back in the day?

har! har! har! har! har! best of all was the one armed kwaka rider on his chooky pissing over 90% of the field with 'wild lines and crazy wheelies'

it aint really any different today

wanna game of tiddly winks? fuk'd if i do

I think you just lost your debate...

[HDTboy]

The part that I find amusing, is that you seem to think the manufacturers actually give a shit about the F3 rules in New Zealand.

[Rick]

Like Frosty I also have an issue with Motards in the Formula classes.

It's not the guys like Paul Brown or Stephen Briggs, who I feel more than confident racing around and with (I've had a number of good battles at Taupo and Paeroa with Paul on his Husaberg while I've been on my Formula bike). The guys that scare the crap out of me are the slower Motards that you often come across at the end of a race (Nelson and Greymouth streets a couple of years ago were shocking for this) who seem to ride like they still on a MX track - taking corners outside to inside, changing lines mid corner etc....they are near on impossible to judge where they're going to go in a corner and on a Formula bike it's very hard to change your line as quick as a Motard.

If the rule changes take these types of riders out of the formula racing (they still have their own class) and makes it safer for the majority of racers then MNZ has done the right thing.

[idleidolidyll]

yeah I believe ther was... same shit different day



I think you just lost your debate...

what you think is obviously irrelevant then

[scracha]

i'm not trolling for buddies

Whatever mate. Start your own Formula series that allows basically anything and see how it goes. I for one will give it a miss but all respect to you if it takes off. Obviously I don't have the cahunas. Hell, I'd nominate you onto the MNZ board just to see how it all works out.

[idleidolidyll]

Like Frosty I also have an issue with Motards in the Formula classes.

It's not the guys like Paul Brown or Stephen Briggs, who I feel more than confident racing around and with (I've had a number of good battles at Taupo and Paeroa with Paul on his Husaberg while I've been on my Formula bike). The guys that scare the crap out of me are the slower Motards that you often come across at the end of a race (Nelson and Greymouth streets a couple of years ago were shocking for this) who seem to ride like they still on a MX track - taking corners outside to inside, changing lines mid corner etc....they are near on impossible to judge where they're going to go in a corner and on a Formula bike it's very hard to change your line as quick as a Motard.

If the rule changes take these types of riders out of the formula racing (they still have their own class) and makes it safer for the majority of racers then MNZ has done the right thing.

Thanks for winning my argument for me.

So it's not actually about the style ('cause Brigs et al ride that way and you aint scared of them). It must then just be about piss poor riders and that's something we have all had to put up with ever since racing began. Remember though, you can't have winners without losers and you can't be highly skilled without having been a novice once.

I recall a guy on an RD400 taking me out at Taupo years ago by cutting a radically stupid line as I came by. He whined that I was going too fast and I'd never have made the corner anyway.
Of course he didn't own up and note that it was the last lap, I was winning and he was a backmarker I was passing.

Mind you, I didn't try to change the rules to get rid of him; that's racing

[Goblin]

Actually dude strictly from my point of view here.
My objection was that on way more than one occasion I was forced to make a simple decision. HIT the guy or stop.It really was that simple. I chose the option that kept both of us alive.You stopped on the track??? so what's more dangerous? Stopping on the track or conceding defeat in a corner and carrying on racing?

Slow corners for a motard (seriously please correct me if I'm wrong) -straight line in foot out on the ground turn, point -squirt
Trouble is just at that turn/point stage they are going bloody slowly and are at right angles to a rider taking a "normal" line.Sorry but you're wrong. Not all Motard riders put their foot out or back it in. They actually go just as fast, if not faster around corners. It's just the lean angle can seem daunting and dangerous if you happen to be on a sportbike type racebike. And the foot out thing is no different to you guys with your knee down. I have never seen a foot out so far as to deem it "dangerous" to other riders. Would have to be a bloody long leg! I think you might be just a wee bit pissed at being beaten by a chookchaser.:pinch:

[scracha]

Oh wait a minute..what am I saying. You wouldn't happen to fit Oyster's definition of an MNZ board member (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=1487967&postcount=1)?

well meaning but thoroughly "well past used by date" medal wearing, self important tosser with affiliations to some obscure old boy networks"

Back in 19canteen I road a BSA blah blah and geoff duke squared off the corners on his dunlop squaremasters yadda yadda yadda..yoof of today..all bloody poofta's...rant rant rant...in my time it wasn't a proper meeting unless at least 2 riders died ...

[idleidolidyll]

Whatever mate. Start your own Formula series that allows basically anything and see how it goes.



that's pretty much what BEARs was and it was a roaring success; MNZ creates its own detractors with silly bullshit stuff like the handlebar rule

Like I said; MNZ just never learns and in that it dooms itself to the same arguments and attacks it has always suffered

[idleidolidyll]

Oh wait a minute..what am I saying. You wouldn't happen to fit Oyster's definition of an MNZ board member (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=1487967&postcount=1)?

well meaning but thoroughly "well past used by date" medal wearing, self important tosser with affiliations to some obscure old boy networks"

Back in 19canteen I road a BSA blah blah and geoff duke squared off the corners on his dunlop squaremasters yadda yadda yadda..yoof of today..all bloody poofta's...rant rant rant...in my time it wasn't a proper meeting unless at least 2 riders died ...

the funniest thing in the world is watching pimply youths mouth off about their elders only to become them when they finally grow up

[HDTboy]

Why not get the rules changed to suit you then iii?
And I'd hardly call scracha a youth

[dangerous]

OI III edit ya 1st post and ADD a POLL, 4, options 1- all in 2- seperate classes for motards 3&4- same again but for those that CURRENTLY race.... lets just see what the people want.

if you dont ill start one that does :Punk:

[idleidolidyll]

Why not get the rules changed to suit you then iii?
And I'd hardly call scracha a youth

the point is to leave the fukkin rules alone so that diversity is encouraged but now they're so fucked they have to go backwards to be relevant again

and if you've been awake you'd have noticed that i'd never fit in with MNZ as long as it acts as it has for the past few decades

just say duh!

[Goblin]

Oh wait a minute..what am I saying. You wouldn't happen to fit Oyster's definition of an MNZ board member (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=1487967&postcount=1)?

well meaning but thoroughly "well past used by date" medal wearing, self important tosser with affiliations to some obscure old boy networks"
Ha! Sounds all too much like the current CEO.:yawn:

[Kickaha]

OI III edit ya 1st post and ADD a POLL, 4, options 1- all in 2- seperate classes for motards 3&4- same again but for those that CURRENTLY race.... lets just see what the people want.

if you dont ill start one that does :Punk:

Been done before
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=41496&highlight=motard

[idleidolidyll]

OI III edit ya 1st post and ADD a POLL, 4, options 1- all in 2- seperate classes for motards 3&4- same again but for those that CURRENTLY race.... lets just see what the people want.

if you dont ill start one that does :Punk:

i don't want a poll, i don't give a shit if more than half the current racers in a particular class are fools or not

i started the thread to engender discussion and debate not mastubation and willy comparisons

[Kickaha]

i don't want a poll, i don't give a shit if more than half the current racers in a particular class are fools or not


By fools I take it you mean anyone who doesn't agree with you?

[dangerous]

Been done before
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=41496&highlight=motard

so it has... and the result is as expected... MNZ did right


i don't want a poll, i don't give a shit if more than half the current racers in a particular class are fools or not

i started the thread to engender discussion and debate not mastubation and willy comparisons

another words.. to shit stir... ok ya done good man, Im out a here :yawn:

[HDTboy]

i started the thread to engender discussion and debate not mastubation and willy comparisons

That's a relief, cause I have the biggest willy on KB

[White trash]

who needs the dirt part?

I don't. In fact I don't give a damn about it and wouldn't enter a pukka motard race.

However, my old 640 KTM regularly left litre sport bikes sulking in its wake on the road and as a road race bike; it deserved the chance to strut it's stuff.

A whole bunch of motards winning and dominating a field is exactly NO DIFFERENT to seeing a bunch of Yamazookis always winning F1.

The real yawnfest is watching the same boring jappas over and over again.

Best sport of all is watching Stephen Briggs fuck them up for 2 or 3 laps on the Superduke, sliding and spinning a ROAD BIKE the way the best riders in the world can.
Is that the same Briggs who was a mobile chicane on the same Super Duke at recent street meetings?

Gimme a break mate, and if the Jappas are so yawny and boring but not the best bike on the track, ummmmmm, why isn't someone racing a Ducati or an Aprillia or a Super Duke (because you seem to think they're gods gift to motorcycling) in National Level Superbikes?

You're obssession with motards and Super Dukes is so laughable because you're now arguing exactly what you started off condeming with this thread, one sidedness in bike racing.

[idleidolidyll]

Been done before
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=41496&highlight=motard

from the first post on that referenced thread:

"As has been mentioned elsewhere, MNZ have apparently ruled that Motards are now excluded from F1, F2 and F3 racing. For those that don't know, Motards are dirt bikes which have been fitted with road tyres- usually they fit 17" spoked wheels to take advantage of the sticky tyres/ slicks available. Typically Motards riders go for European bikes... because then they get to race in BEARS as well"

What has actually happened is that NON MOTARDS have been dumped by stupid sub rules too: the handlebar bullshit.
A Yammy MT03 is NOT a motocrosser OR a motard, neither is a KTM Duke.

And at the end, the usual jealous whine that some peoiple get to race in more classes............boo hoo! they also pay for the privelage in entry fees!

[Robert Taylor]

Sorry Il but I also have an issue with motards in the formula classes.
The lines motards take are so radically different from road race lines it was literally an accident waiting to happen.
By radically I don't mean variations in individual style either.
The one clear exception was the guy out on a honda 650? single.
He took normal road race lines and other than the fact he had lean angles that had me totally stunned was a pleasure to ride against.
For the record the handlebar height rules DONT exclude nakeds.-most have sub 900mm bars.

Yes indeed Frosty. The reason these bikes take such different lines is that the rake and trail figures are set for dirt. Reset them to road race figures and they will take almost the same lines and circulate faster.

[idleidolidyll]

Is that the same Briggs who was a mobile chicane on the same Super Duke at recent street meetings?

yeah, the same Briggs who often lead the race for a few laps on a bike with 50 less horsepower and who was told that he only slid because he was riding a motard (until he started doing the same on the Superduke)

Gimme a break mate, and if the Jappas are so yawny and boring but not the best bike on the track, ummmmmm, why isn't someone racing a Ducati or an Aprillia or a Super Duke (because you seem to think they're gods gift to motorcycling) in National Level Superbikes?

Sure, the rules are written to suit the jappas; that's the point aint it? Go do some reading, you've missed a lot

You're obssession with motards and Super Dukes is so laughable because you're now arguing exactly what you started off condeming with this thread, one sidedness in bike racing.

Again, go back and read before placing foot in mouth. A Yammy MT03 is NOT a motard, neither is a KTM Duke, neither is a Ducati Motostrada.

You're confusing yourself with a lack of knowledge

[idleidolidyll]

Yes indeed Frosty. The reason these bikes take such different lines is that the rake and trail figures are set for dirt. Reset them to road race figures and they will take almost the same lines and circulate faster.

Stephen Briggs sliding that Superduke just like a motard makes a dick of that statement.

He lead on a number of occasions out of the box and was way faster in the corners. He was passed under straight line speed in the end (50-70BHP more of it), not because of corner speed.

By the way, the Superduke is a road bike and has quite different rake, trail and steering angle to its supermoto brother the 950SM

[Robert Taylor]

Again, go back and read before placing foot in mouth. A Yammy MT03 is NOT a motard, neither is a KTM Duke, neither is a Ducati Motostrada.

You're confusing yourself with a lack of knowledge


Ho hum................Id personally like to say that by and large MNZ are doing a good job, not perfect but it must be a hell of a lot similiar to being a politician being subjected to polarised opinions and abuse.
Thankfully the people that run it from the top down are in no way obnoxious and overly foul of mouth. An aversion to being so is worthy of respect in itself.

[Tim 39]

Idle, keep the eye patch on your good eye. You obviously dont want to see what has probably been the best Nationals season of racing we have had for many years. It is on TVOne on April 20th for those interested.

Yay!!!!! finally they're showing it!!!!

[jrandom]

Ducati Motostrada

Ducati Multistrada, thank you very much. And quite lovely bikes they are too.

[idleidolidyll]

Ho hum................Id personally like to say that by and large MNZ are doing a good job, not perfect but it must be a hell of a lot similiar to being a politician being subjected to polarised opinions and abuse.
Thankfully the people that run it from the top down are in no way obnoxious and overly foul of mouth. An aversion to being so is worthy of respect in itself.

I'd say that over the thirty or so years I've raced and watched, MNZ has always pandered to the money and written the rules to spite the sport. That's why BEARs was so successful and why MNZ will continue to muddle along instead of inspire.

And given your history with MNZ, I'd expect you to spout the party line anyway

[Robert Taylor]

Stephen Briggs sliding that Superduke just like a motard makes a dick of that statement.

He lead on a number of occasions out of the box and was way faster in the corners. He was passed under straight line speed in the end (50-70BHP more of it), not because of corner speed.

By the way, the Superduke is a road bike and has quite different rake, trail and steering angle to its supermoto brother the 950SM


That is a different argument with its own reasons and you know it. He was prepared to hang out a bike with a lower polar moment of inertia, whilst this looks impressive on very tight street circuits it is rather less effective on larger closed courses.

[Burrt Badger]

Idle.
Insert your cranium back into your rectum and keep yourself satisfied!!!!
We are only talking about rules applying to National Championships. Clubs can run whatever class rules they want, as they do at the Sound of Thunder, the Auckland, Victoria, Pacific club series.
White Trash is exactly right. If the European bikes were able to compete someone would ride them.

[idleidolidyll]

Ducati Multistrada, thank you very much. And quite lovely bikes they are too.

wodeva!

a hypermoto is pretty much a multistrada with pretty clothes.

despite what has been said, they are road bikes not motards. that said of course, they'd be banned from F3 if they had 750cc motors because their bars would be too high.....................................

[Burrt Badger]

Tim39.
Go to nzsbk.co.nz for a rundown on what is on and when

[Robert Taylor]

I'd say that over the thirty or so years I've raced and watched, MNZ has always pandered to the money and written the rules to spite the sport. That's why BEARs was so successful and why MNZ will continue to muddle along instead of inspire.

And given your history with MNZ, I'd expect you to spout the party line anyway

Change that please to ''given your perceived history with MNZ...........''

[idleidolidyll]

Idle.
Insert your cranium back into your rectum and keep yourself satisfied!!!!
We are only talking about rules applying to National Championships. Clubs can run whatever class rules they want, as they do at the Sound of Thunder, the Auckland, Victoria, Pacific club series.
White Trash is exactly right. If the European bikes were able to compete someone would ride them.

wow! stupidity shines so brightly

didn't a Euro bike win the WSB AND GP1?

[jrandom]

polar moment of inertia

<img src="http://i28.tinypic.com/1s1unt.jpg"/>

[Burrt Badger]

Yes, and can you buy one of them to race anywhere in the World?????
NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[idleidolidyll]

Change that please to ''given your perceived history with MNZ...........''

you spout your silly perceptions and i'll spout mine: nothing ever changes

[jrandom]

wodeva!

a hypermoto is pretty much a multistrada with pretty clothes.

... and a smaller gas tank, and no pillion or luggage capacity.

I know!

I'd have had a Multistrada instead of the GSX1400 if I could have afforded the extra $7,000.

[Burrt Badger]

Sorry. Didnt Honda win WSB and Ducati MotoGP.

[idleidolidyll]

Yes, and can you buy one of them to race anywhere in the World?????
NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

yawn, first dumb post exposed as bullshit so loser retreats to red herring instead

[Burrt Badger]

Try buying Casey Stoner or Loris Capirossi's bikes and then pay to run them.

[Robert Taylor]

<img src="http://i28.tinypic.com/1s1unt.jpg"/>

And also full of mindless belittlement............

[FROSTY]

You stopped on the track??? so what's more dangerous? Stopping on the track or conceding defeat in a corner and carrying on racing?
I think you mispictured the situation. Him past me in a straight line-no issue there. Him starting to turn-No issue. Him all but stopped at right angles to me on the track with me cranked over and only 1-2m from him -BIG issue. I had to choose the option -Hit the brakes hard or hit him. It really was that simple.
Sorry but you're wrong. Not all Motard riders put their foot out or back it in. They actually go just as fast, if not faster around corners. It's just the lean angle can seem daunting and dangerous if you happen to be on a sportbike type racebike. And the foot out thing is no different to you guys with your knee down. I have never seen a foot out so far as to deem it "dangerous" to other riders. Would have to be a bloody long leg! I think you might be just a wee bit pissed at being beaten by a chookchaser.:pinch:
Enough do and did for PMCC to try an initial effort 2 years ago of allowing tards in the formula classes ONLY if the riders kept foot on peg.
No Im NEVER pissed at being beaten by a better bike/rider You should know that.
again my issue is safety plain and simple.
I reiterate-Ive raced with a guy who was bloody fantastic on his tard.
Cranked that thing over at a rediculous angle and just plumb outrode most of the feild.

[idleidolidyll]

Sorry. Didnt Honda win WSB and Ducati MotoGP.

so it did, i guess those 'useless euros' got bored with winning superbikes and concentrated on winning GP1 instead.

still, didn't you jerk off about euros being unable to compete?

[idleidolidyll]

Try buying Casey Stoner or Loris Capirossi's bikes and then pay to run them.

try buying the latest GP honda or yammy and doing the same and stop inventing inane bullsit with no relevance to the thread

[jrandom]

And also full of mindless belittlement............

I just thought it was a cute picture.

:confused:

[idleidolidyll]

And also full of mindless belittlement............

when faced with little minds it seems the natural thing to do

[Goblin]

Yay!!!!! finally they're showing it!!!!You dont honestly think they will show the 125s do you? What's the bet we will only see 5 minutes of the front runners in the F1 and F2.


And speaking of hanging bikes out...who complains when young Jay backs it into corners? He's not considered dangerous when he plays around a bit. Everybody ooohs and aaarrhhs at that eh.

[Robert Taylor]

I just thought it was a cute picture.

:confused:

It was indeed and a welcome respite from ''the one who knows best'' Thankyou.

[idleidolidyll]

I reiterate-Ive raced with a guy who was bloody fantastic on his tard.
Cranked that thing over at a rediculous angle and just plumb outrode most of the feild.

ahh so, it aint the bikes it's the style?

so why ban the bikes and not the style?

mind you, banning the style would ban Rossi too and that would be too obvious even for MNZ. Easier to do it through the back door with stupid little rules.

[Subike]

I know Jack shit about racing, rules what ever
I have just read this whole thread and have one question
idleidolidyll

are you for real?

If you are an example of the people who run the sport

then I want nothing to do with it

[Goblin]

Ho hum................Id personally like to say that by and large MNZ are doing a good job, not perfect but it must be a hell of a lot similiar to being a politician being subjected to polarised opinions and abuse.
Thankfully the people that run it from the top down are in no way obnoxious and overly foul of mouth. An aversion to being so is worthy of respect in itself.Maybe he should stick to trying to be a polly rather than staying top of MNZ.

[idleidolidyll]

I know Jack shit about racing, rules what ever
I have just read this whole thread and have one question
idleidolidyll

are you for real?

If you are an example of the people who run the sport

then I want nothing to do with it

you say you've read the thread then ask if i'm an example of those who run the sport?

obviously you either lied and didn't read the thread or you just don't understand the debate.

yep, i'm very real and not afraid to point a finger at stupidity even when i know the people involved

if you'd been a part of racing, you'd have known of the discontent with MNZ simmering for decades. That's pretty much why BEARs started.

I'd hoped it would change under sane leadership; it hasn't and that's a damn shame

[Burrt Badger]

Idle. Ducati had to threaten to take their toys away to get a 200cc advantage over the Jappas so that they could continue their larger capacity domination of Superbikes. Watch this year as yet again Ducati will win the title because of their capacity advantage.
MNZ does a pretty good job, not perfect, but pretty good. As I said in my first reply, it real easy to sit on the ouitside and piss in, but it take character to actually stand up and try to improve things. You held a position in an alternative style of racing. If you really believe in what you say, then stand for the MNZ Board and try to do something for the Sport as a whole, not just the tiny part of it in which you are involved.

[Subike]

OK
you asume i have not read this whole thread. well I have thank you
and the question stands
are you for real
you make your self sound like you are a god or somethin, next to the abuse given to those who post vallad arguments against you, you choice of words in certain posts is not really what I call respectfull
Robert for one, who you abused just after he place a valid post
do I give more examples
Mate if you were in my club, I would kick you sorry ass out the door and ban you soley on your attitude toward others opinions
this whole thread could have been handled a whole lot better
and I am no scoller or professional, and do lack understanding of the racing rules etc... but
I think you are just plan arrogant!

[GaZBur]

So - what is the problem?

The way I see it is the rules have been brought in to remove Motard bikes out of the other formulas - which I can see is reasonable. The problem is that bikes that are not motard but really a sit up naked sportster type are eliminated as well. That does not seem right.
As for different lines it is true depending on the track as far as I can see.
I am not overly competitive so starting at the back of the field I see the difference in style.
At Teretonga for example your Motards take the same lines as regular bikes. In the first race some of the mid-field guys started trying to put thier leg out for the first couple of laps but stopped when they realised they were being outbraked and passed on the outside. We could have raced with anyone else without danger.
At Wyndham though the street circuit with 90 degree corners things were different and there would have been carnage if they ran with other classes.

Maybe the question should be how do you get the non motard bikes back into F-3 ?

[Drew]

Seems I don't have them Dunno how to get the picture in a quote, but I rode a K2 Gixxer thou, and it would very often get that sideways when applying lots of throttle, it would at the same time, give me a SLOWER lap time.


ahh so, it aint the bikes it's the style?

so why ban the bikes and not the style?

mind you, banning the style would ban Rossi too and that would be too obvious even for MNZ. Easier to do it through the back door with stupid little rules.

You god complexed COCK, Rossi does trail the rear wheel in SOMETIMES, not in any way the same degree as a motard, and not sacrificing LOTS of entry speed in the process. Besides, how's Rossi getting on lately, on the tyres he wants, with his team mate on the tyres he didn't want?

I have experienced motards in the same class as my road bike many times, post classics pre 89, they were lumped in with us for lack of space anywhere else, I very nearly collected the FASTEST of them into Higgins at Manfield, due to him being considderably slower INTO the turn.

Again when I went F3 on an SV, where the bike had been crashed by another rider, so I missed qualifying, again there was nearly a coming together, this time in turn one at Manfield lap two, and by luck alone did I realise the speed differential mid turn and ran OFF THE TRACK on exit avoiding him.

Most recent was at the Sound of Thunder this year, I ran straight into the rear wheel of ? (dont know his first name) Veitch (cant spell his surname), and went straight over the handle bars to go lye down in the dirt. I fully accept responsability for this, I misjudged how much quicker I was going, but consider for a moment, I was about to pass him into third postition, on a slower bike, HOW THE FUCK IS IT JUST AS FAST A WAY TO RIDE? To qualify this, I beat him in every other race we entered together, and we were both always top ten.

Only once have I raced closely with a motard, at Taupo against "the mad Maori", (no idea of his real name), where the lines were similar. He was demon quick, right behind me, right behind Jimmy (Whitetrash). He rode knee out style, unlike most of them.

[Buddha#81]

if you'd been a part of racing, you'd have known of the discontent with MNZ simmering for decades. That's pretty much why BEARs started.



Geez man you seem to be living in the past, being the BEARS movement. Other than the Sound of Thunder the Chrischurch Bears club survives on Bucket and Pre '82 entries.

$ for $ a jappa road bike makes a better race bike.......Chook chasers are probally the other way around.

[Ivan]

ya think i give a shit?



Im Sorry about your back and I didn not mean to offend you ok.

I was just trying to put my point accross

[scrivy]

Different lines.........

This applies to the sidecars also.
On my old piece of shite, I take totally different lines compared to the new LCR sidecars coming into NZ. Ask my passenger Sidecar Bob if we've been 'taken out' by some ridiculous lines of the long bikes! But racing is racing, and different machines in the same class make it interesting for the spectators. Yes it is dangerous, but who gets to say whos right and whos wrong?? Me for going faster around corners or under brakes on an outdated machine, or the newer, more expensive machines designed for highspeed tracks of the world?? Should one of our models be ousted?

Why can't MNZ hold a conference that isn't in a far away location (out of reach to most members), and actually debate the classes, formulas etc with the actual riders????? When was this last done? When were us riders ever consulted on issues for our classes?
Wouldn't this point us all in the right direction?
Scrivy

[Drew]

Im Sorry about your back and I didn not mean to offend you ok.

I was just trying to put my point accross

Dont apologise, you said nothing wrong. His gripe is unfounded considering the reason for rule change, uninformed for the same reason, and just a general cry about nothing except the stupid hasbeen couldn't go out and get in the way of F3 racers, point made when one looks to see how many times Glen Williams has been beaten while on board his SV.

[Ivan]

So how many of these fatalities were caused by Motard riders taking different lines? Motorcycle racing IS a dangerous sport! Riding on the ROAD is dangerous too. Same with sidecars...should long chairs and short ones be separated too?

No I didnt say it was motards fautls Im saying the risk of a serious crash is high because of bigger hadlebars, If you readwhat I had to say were motards brushing handlebars on you isnt safe

They did it because riders were sayign we dont want ot share the track with them and the majority of good motard riders were devouwerd(sp) by the bad ones who were hanging out and I know of a few incidents of riders having a motard flick the arse half bend and slam a F3 bike and send the F3 bike into the dirt,

Sadly I dotn want to share the track with a motard they have there own class and they run there own meetings if they can share track with me can i take my biek into motards to inialte them cause my 93 RS is a CR125 engine

[Clivoris]

:woohoo:What a great stir. I only started racing F3 last Actrix Winter Series so I didn't get to experience motards in the field. What I remember hearing most often from F3 riders prior to this were problems with some motards outbraking into slower corners, then taking lines that obstructed the street-bikes from getting through the corner in normal fashion with their normal speed. The Street bike would then get past the motard to have it all happen again at the next tight corner. My reaction at the time was "If they are gonna fuck up my fun I want them out of there".
If nothing else this thread has made me stop and think about this reaction. There is real merit to having diversity in the F3 class and keeping the innovation going. The idea seems to work for evolution. Evolve or die etc. The crunch comes for me, when I realise that I don't want to race like a motard rider or ride a motard (am I being seduced by an unsubstantiated stereo-type here?), I want to ride my 4 cyclinder dinasaur as fast as I can. This might be easier for me without motards scaring me or blocking my preferred line.
What you have done III is raised the question of whether I would be a better racer if I learned to cope with motards? Even further down the road, might I enjoy the battles with the motards? I don't know and my understanding is that MNZ have legislated that club meetings can not use special regs to get around this, so unless something changes I am unlikely to find out.
An observation that probably doesn't add much of value to the debate occurred while doing some corner marshalling at the Manfield hairpin at a track day a while back. There were three motard riders out in the medium group circulating reasonably quickly and making great sport out of backing into the hairpin and carving up road riders. I know this was sport for them as I could hear the hooting and I also spoke to them after the session about the appropriateness of their behaviour. Any rider on any bike can ride in an unsafe manner, my piss-weak point is that I suspect that the ability to do this kind of stuff (more easily than in my road bike) is part of the attraction of motards and riding like this will happen. Does that constitute a safety issue or an added challenge to spice up racing?
I am strangely attracted to your argument that it is racing, and the winner is the rider who crosses the finish line first. I also want to be able to have my fun on the track without "extra" drama. I think you may have shifted me to a 60/40 balance. I can feel myself slipping off the fence.
I would be really keen to hear from geezers wot have raced both types of bike in F3. Somebody :Pokey: Sully60

[Ivan]

Dont apologise, you said nothing wrong. His gripe is unfounded considering the reason for rule change, uninformed for the same reason, and just a general cry about nothing except the stupid hasbeen couldn't go out and get in the way of F3 racers, point made when one looks to see how many times Glen Williams has been beaten while on board his SV.


Im not apoligising about whatI said ive got nothing to be sorry about there im saying sorry he feels so left out because of his back my dads left out because of a bucket crash and got stuffed up and cant race a bike because of back and foot injurys but i dont see him having a bitch on the internet

Im ratherpissed offnow reading through with his attitude to other forum members trying to say there piece basically he believes MNZ who put on a fucken good nationals series is shit

[Robert Taylor]

Im Sorry about your back and I didn not mean to offend you ok.

I was just trying to put my point accross

As were all of us Ivan but dont forget we all had the temerity to express opinions not in agreement and therefore incurred his vile wrath. We should all apologise profusely and offer reperations....

[FROSTY]

So - what is the problem?

The way I see it is the rules have been brought in to remove Motard bikes out of the other formulas - which I can see is reasonable. The problem is that bikes that are not motard but really a sit up naked sportster type are eliminated as well. That does not seem right.

Mate I'm happy to stand corrected but Im pretty sure even a GSthou still qualifies under this rule.
I'd measure the bar heights of the naked bikes you'd concider racing. Bet they would qualify

[scrivy]

basically he believes MNZ who put on a fucken good nationals series is shit

I don't want to bash MNZ on this thread, but (please excuse my naivety), what did MNZ do this year to promote the series?

Bernard racing organised the Aussies and Yanks didn't he? Bloody great too Brian!
The new LCR sidecars brought into NZ weren't organised by MNZ, but did improve numbers/quality/apperances.
Did MNZ make Craig Sherriffs pull finger and ride like a demon?
Did they buy Sam Smith a new bike or give him the learn? (Prior to his crash - he was on fire).
Did MNZ get Mr Rocket Bugden to NZ?
All of the above events made this year a better year for spectators, but I wouldn't go as far as saying it was MNZ's doing.
Ivan, I've been around for over 2 decades in the sport, and I can see it going downhill fast!
Many years ago we had vastly larger numbers of spectators.
Now its not even promoted as a national series - its now a Superbike series! Do you race a superbike Ivan? I don't, neither does Glen Williams. Infact, on the NZSBK website, they don't even include sidecars in their classes for the series!! Hold on, I pay the same fees as all the other classes, but I can't tell my sponsor I race in a national event!! What the f@@k??
Did you lose your prizemoney for the benefit of advertising? Do you think you got value for your losses?
I won all the South Island races, and yet as like you, I didn't see any of our class on TV. Considering that the NZ sidecar class now has the fastest sidecar in the world, (and the most expensive race machine currently on the track), don't you think that that would be a good enough reason for promotion on TV?
MNZ do need to listen to the voices of the people they are volunteering to help. They need to hold workshops with competitors!!

[scrivy]

As were all of us Ivan but dont forget we all had the temerity to express opinions not in agreement and therefore incurred his vile wrath. We should all apologise profusely and offer reperations....

:shifty: er Robert, you can call me a c#@%, then pay me reparations..... :lol::lol:

[Clivoris]

Why can't MNZ hold a conference that isn't in a far away location (out of reach to most members), and actually debate the classes, formulas etc with the actual riders????? When was this last done? When were us riders ever consulted on issues for our classes?
Wouldn't this point us all in the right direction?
Scrivy

In my opinion MNZ mostly does a good job. Any organisation representing such a diverse group is going to piss people off and make decisions that some don't like. I wouldn't do it for quids. No matter where conference is held it will still be too far for some. The debate and discussion goes on all the time at club and national level.

[scracha]

I don't want to bash MNZ on this thread, but (please excuse my naivety), what did MNZ do this year to promote the series?


Blingo. But somehow the valid point/question Idol was trying to make about MNZ (being hopeless) has been sidetracked by umm...himself due to him ranting about the same old F3 / Supermotards crap that's been played over a dozen times (F3 RACERS had a petition, they voted to not have the motards...end of story basically).

[scracha]

And I'd hardly call scracha a youth
Fucker......

[Subike]

This MNZ sounds like they are all members of our government, there for the people they represent, but only listen to the sounds that come from inside the walls they meet in, and make the rules to justify their own agenders .Money in the coffers.

(backs out and runs fast>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>that way)

[Goblin]

No I didnt say it was motards fautls Im saying the risk of a serious crash is high because of bigger hadlebars, If you read what I had to say were motards brushing handlebars on you isnt safe

They did it because riders were sayign we dont want to share the track with them and the majority of good motard riders were devoured(sp) by the bad ones who were hanging out and I know of a few incidents of riders having a motard flick the arse half bend and slam a F3 bike and send the F3 bike into the dirt,

Sadly I dotn want to share the track with a motard they have there own class and they run there own meetings if they can share track with me can i take my biek into motards to inialte them cause my 93 RS is a CR125 engineNot having a go at you personally Ivan, I actually really respect you as a racer. I have seen motard riders nearly taken out by road racers. I was taken out by a clown on a brand new SV650 in practice because he was trying to keep up with a motard. Even the top racers in Production Superbike and Sports Production sometimes swap paint. It's all part of racing and the risk we take. I still believe that handlebar height has nothing to do with it as it's down to the rider and how they handle any given situation.

[Chrislost]

Before the new rules kicked them out, F3 was almost half motard. Now it's a fucking bore again full of expensive outdated crap.
The 'riders' with the biggest whines won the day and motorcycle racing in NZ lost.

MNZ has always sucked up to the sponsors and it has never been transparent. How else did those 'production' wire wheel katanas ever get away with burgling proddy races way back then?
Suzuki Japan never produced the 120HP wire wheels; they were a cheat from start to finish and should have been banned and their results nullified. They weren't of course, wonder why?

So they spent more money, made better bikes and got hated for it?
I cant see why another manufacturer couldn't have do the same?

In racing there will always be people that will get whats fastest if they can or bend rules and make somthing faster.
Ive been to a few trackdays and had a lot of fun playing with motards. Im sure racing them would be the same.

[codgyoleracer]

I didnt sign the petition & agree that if the engine spec fits let it race. Motards do take different lines, you can see them lap after lap when you follow them & they dont really differ lap by lap. Once you know where they going - they are easy to dust as they brake like pooftas & are damm slow in a straight line............. :-) They have strengths in mid corner speed though & get off the line pretty quick. This makes the race "intersting/fun" (if your amongst them) & - thats what your out there doing isint it ?.

The only point that might be arguable in my opinion is the width of the bars - in respect of there abilty to become tangled with other riders in close side-by-side racing at high speeds.
Glen

[jrandom]

I didnt sign the petition & agree that if the engine spec fits let it race.

There you go, the current F3 national champion agrees with Idle.

(Can I get this post autographed, Glen?)

It's starting to sound to me like the folk who signed the petition are just a bunch of nancyboys afraid of falling off.

;)

Cry havoc, I say, and let slip the 'tards of war!

[Ivan]

Not having a go at you personally Ivan, I actually really respect you as a racer. I have seen motard riders nearly taken out by road racers. I was taken out by a clown on a brand new SV650 in practice because he was trying to keep up with a motard. Even the top racers in Production Superbike and Sports Production sometimes swap paint. It's all part of racing and the risk we take. I still believe that handlebar height has nothing to do with it as it's down to the rider and how they handle any given situation.

Nah I know what you mean.
And I have nothing against what you are saying, At times when im allready in a bad mood I need to back of from these threads as the ginger comes out and I get on my high horseand wont want to back down.

As Codgy said its mainly in close level racing the handlebars come into issue, Im for one into racing against differnt bikes etc but sadly Ive been put off Motards with road, Nothing against motard riders they rule and when its all motards its a good race one of the few I go and watch on race day.

But the Majority of thesemotard guys are only interested in on road how coe they dotn do a Roland Sands idea and put a ZX6R etc front end on there bike with clipons and Honda or Yamaha 250 GP bike Fairings on and thatd be one sick ride

[Goblin]

But the Majority of these motard guys are only interested in on road how come they dotn do a Roland Sands idea and put a ZX6R etc front end on there bike with clipons and Honda or Yamaha 250 GP bike Fairings on and thatd be one sick rideThere was one out at the last MotoTT trackday that looked just like a regular road racebike with fairings and clipons. Not sure if it was a yz 450 or what because I never got the chance to go see it in the pits but it sure went well!
If I ever got the chance I'd be keen as on European Motard and a crack at BEARS racing.:headbang:

[Ivan]

Awsome.

I knwo Jason Easton had a Tig Craft YZ450F engine in a Tigcraft tube chassis designed for the YZ450F engine and use RS125 Honda Swing arm triple clamps forks and rims excet the rims needed to be modified to adapt a better sprocket carrier more robust for its use

And also a guy did the 06 Road Race Spec he was on board a Honda RS125 full rolling Chassis Modified to fit a CRF450 engine that thing was absolutely nuts such a perfect combination for that short Taupo track except it was real hard on the tires

[vinducati]

I have to say i really enjoyed the Road racing Rounds this year.
I think MNZ are putting on a good show.
Getting riders from Aussie and the USA like we had this year was a good thing.
F2 was great.
F3 I enjoyed.
I reckon a big field of motards is good as well, I prefer seeing them all together not mixed in.
As far as BEARS, good on them as well.
Motorcycling is a small enough sport without infighting.
Look at Speedway, solo bikes had a falling out long ago, now the solo scene is tiny.
I always thought that if MNZ could run a few races at the big car meeting safely it would be a good way to get the sport in front of larger crowds.
Also means you piggie back on TV coverage etc.
Anyhow, cheers.

[scott411]

MNZ is only its members, they elect its officals, every member has the same right to vote, its conferences are open to all members, and are normally held n the middle of the coutnry somewhere, (nelson this year, wellington for the last 2)

they tried runnign with the car meetings a few years back, not to sure why that died but it may have been because the car guys do not want them thier as they have to many classes as it is,

as per the f3 vs motards thing, motards kept f3 fields big, and saved the class for a while, but with them all out now f3 is back to being fairly small, its a done argument, i do not agree with the decision that was made, but hte f3 riders signed the petition, and they got thier way, that is democracey at work,

as for the SUper Single Bikes, i know thier are a lot of people talking about making them, me inlcuded, but the price puts poeple off, for one, and the great thing about a motard bike is you can put your dirt wheels back on and go trail riding or mxing with less than 30 minutes work, its a big draw card to have one bike that can do it all,

qas for the bears debate, a one off meeting is easy to pull off than a series, the Sound of thunder boys did a great job a promoting to thier market, but they never tried to runa series out of it as it would have diluted the effect, and i have always had a problem with a bears class at normal race meetings, epecailly when its the only class you are aloud to cross enter into, all bikes are created equal in my eyes.

[k14]

The only point that might be arguable in my opinion is the width of the bars - in respect of there abilty to become tangled with other riders in close side-by-side racing at high speeds.
Glen
I used to be of the opinion that they are fine to be in the class and anyone should be able to ride.

Till at ruapuna one day I nearly had a big off (and the motard rider actually did fall off) after he got his handlebar caught over my neck when I was going past him. Was quite a scary experience. He actually crashed trying to get us untangled. I ran off the track doing 130 odd. I have also had another instance where I was nearly clotheslined by one when I was trying to go round the outside of him.

Their lines are a bit of an annoyance sometimes but its a bit of a cop out to say that its unsafe.

I signed the petition only due to the safety issues of the way in which the handlebars got caught on me. If it was another 125 or road racing bike we would have just touched elbows (pretty normal for 125's) and been ready for the next corner.

[codgyoleracer]

[QUOTE=jrandom;1489984]There you go, the current F3 national champion agrees with Idle.

(Can I get this post autographed, Glen?)



Errr.........No,
interesting thread though.

[Goblin]

Awsome.
I knwo Jason Easton had a Tig Craft YZ450F engine in a Tigcraft tube chassis designed for the YZ450F engine and use RS125 Honda Swing arm triple clamps forks and rims excet the rims needed to be modified to adapt a better sprocket carrier more robust for its useThat might have been the one?? Red fairings?

I used to be of the opinion that they are fine to be in the class and anyone should be able to ride.

Till at ruapuna one day I nearly had a big off (and the motard rider actually did fall off) after he got his handlebar caught over my neck when I was going past him. Was quite a scary experience. He actually crashed trying to get us untangled. I ran off the track doing 130 odd. I have also had another instance where I was nearly clotheslined by one when I was trying to go round the outside of him.I bet it was scary...but there I've always thought the onus is on the the person doing the passing. If someone goes around you, you just hold your line and fang it to try not to let them past. If you're passing someone you have to be sure you can make the pass safely, regardless of the size of the bike you're passing. But then again I've only done half a dozen race meetings so dont have the racecraft that you fullas do.

[idleidolidyll]

Idle. Ducati had to threaten to take their toys away to get a 200cc advantage over the Jappas so that they could continue their larger capacity domination of Superbikes. Watch this year as yet again Ducati will win the title because of their capacity advantage.
MNZ does a pretty good job, not perfect, but pretty good. As I said in my first reply, it real easy to sit on the ouitside and piss in, but it take character to actually stand up and try to improve things. You held a position in an alternative style of racing. If you really believe in what you say, then stand for the MNZ Board and try to do something for the Sport as a whole, not just the tiny part of it in which you are involved.

Nope: I'm not that stupid. I know that I could never change it from the inside unless the entire organisation was overhauled and that will never happen. I've seen the bullshit going on within the org for decades and the group think seems to be passed down generation to generation.

I'll be interested in changing it (or sidestepping it) from the outside though.

[idleidolidyll]

OK
you asume i have not read this whole thread. well I have thank you

really? did you have a dictionary with you at the time? I only ask because, from your comments, it is obvious you didn't understand.

and the question stands
are you for real
you make your self sound like you are a god or somethin,

nope; not even a minor deity

next to the abuse given to those who post vallad arguments against you,

what 'valid' arguments? when i pointed out the flaws in those 'arguments' they either changed the subject or ran away.

you choice of words in certain posts is not really what I call respectfull

who the fuck has earned my respect? respect is not something freely given to any fukwit you happen to type a few words to; it's something that must be earned to have any value

Robert for one, who you abused just after he place a valid post

boo hoo. robert didn't make a valid argument. his went along the lines that if the motard riders were given bikes with road oriented rake and trail etc, they'd start to ride like all the other road ridewrs. I made a nonsense of that by pointing out Stephen Briggs is riding a road bike and STILL riding and sliding motard style. Robert ran away to some other subject.

do I give more examples

go ahead, if they're all this weak i won't feel challenged at all.

Mate if you were in my club, I would kick you sorry ass out the door and ban you soley on your attitude toward others opinions

stop with the chest thumping already, i'm not impressed

this whole thread could have been handled a whole lot better
and I am no scoller or professional, and do lack understanding of the racing rules etc... but
I think you are just plan arrogant!


yep, arrogance is something losers think winners have. Actually it's just extreme self belief and without it; losers will always be losers

[idleidolidyll]

Geez man you seem to be living in the past, being the BEARS movement. Other than the Sound of Thunder the Chrischurch Bears club survives on Bucket and Pre '82 entries.

$ for $ a jappa road bike makes a better race bike.......Chook chasers are probally the other way around.

funny how you totally miss every point in the thread and concentrate on the straw men........................yawn

[idleidolidyll]

Dont apologise, you said nothing wrong. His gripe is unfounded considering the reason for rule change, uninformed for the same reason, and just a general cry about nothing except the stupid hasbeen couldn't go out and get in the way of F3 racers, point made when one looks to see how many times Glen Williams has been beaten while on board his SV.

I would have replied to your earlier rant but it was just too big and dumb.

You miss all the points and concentrate on fallacies.

It aint about any specific racer and it could have been wayne rainey, aaron slight, kenny roberts or any other rider used as an example. the point being that if you watch top class racing, the best riders deliberately use slides and spins and taking feet off the pegs to get an advantage. they also know that to pass, you MUST take different lines. That usually menas taking the bad line and getting really fucking loose to get past. That's called racing and if you try to ban that; you fuck the sport.

You follow with your little anecdote and for you it must seem really relevant. However, all you're pointing out is that some riders are crap and others are better. So what?

[idleidolidyll]

No I didnt say it was motards fautls Im saying the risk of a serious crash is high because of bigger hadlebars, If you readwhat I had to say were motards brushing handlebars on you isnt safe


nope: some BMW's and other sit up bikes have bars just as wide. It isn't a wide bar that's dangerous, it's a bad rider

They did it because riders were sayign we dont want ot share the track with them and the majority of good motard riders were devouwerd(sp) by the bad ones who were hanging out and I know of a few incidents of riders having a motard flick the arse half bend and slam a F3 bike and send the F3 bike into the dirt,

hat's called racing; it happens regardless of whether there's a motard involved. the 400 fourguys are just pissed because chookies are better race bikes

Sadly I dotn want to share the track with a motard they have there own class and they run there own meetings if they can share track with me can i take my biek into motards to inialte them cause my 93 RS is a CR125 engine

Nope, the class they all should have equal rights to is F3. If the ancient in line 4's want a class they should start a fukkin post post classic one so the world can move on to better bikes.

[idleidolidyll]

:woohoo:What a great stir. I only started racing F3 last Actrix Winter Series so I didn't get to experience motards in the field. What I remember hearing most often from F3 riders prior to this were problems with some motards outbraking into slower corners, then taking lines that obstructed the street-bikes from getting through the corner in normal fashion with their normal speed. The Street bike would then get past the motard to have it all happen again at the next tight corner. My reaction at the time was "If they are gonna fuck up my fun I want them out of there".

that's racing. i udes to do the same on my ducati and on my honda and it aint because they are motards

If nothing else this thread has made me stop and think about this reaction. There is real merit to having diversity in the F3 class and keeping the innovation going. The idea seems to work for evolution. Evolve or die etc. The crunch comes for me, when I realise that I don't want to race like a motard rider or ride a motard (am I being seduced by an unsubstantiated stereo-type here?), I want to ride my 4 cyclinder dinasaur as fast as I can. This might be easier for me without motards scaring me or blocking my preferred line.

fine, apply for a 400cc dinosaur class and get the old fours out of the F3 class where they can only win by banning better bikes

What you have done III is raised the question of whether I would be a better racer if I learned to cope with motards? Even further down the road, might I enjoy the battles with the motards? I don't know and my understanding is that MNZ have legislated that club meetings can not use special regs to get around this, so unless something changes I am unlikely to find out.

In racing the best lesson is to learn how every style works; that gives you choices and as Briggs has shown, you don't need a motard to ride that way. MNZ might have left clubs to themselves but that's not the point. Many clubs will follow MNZ rules anyway and why the hell should F3 be restricted to dinosaurs? Isn't this supposed to be a premiere class?

An observation that probably doesn't add much of value to the debate occurred while doing some corner marshalling at the Manfield hairpin at a track day a while back. There were three motard riders out in the medium group circulating reasonably quickly and making great sport out of backing into the hairpin and carving up road riders. I know this was sport for them as I could hear the hooting and I also spoke to them after the session about the appropriateness of their behaviour. Any rider on any bike can ride in an unsafe manner, my piss-weak point is that I suspect that the ability to do this kind of stuff (more easily than in my road bike) is part of the attraction of motards and riding like this will happen. Does that constitute a safety issue or an added challenge to spice up racing?

Nope; that is just racing and it can be done on many bikes that are not motards

I am strangely attracted to your argument that it is racing, and the winner is the rider who crosses the finish line first. I also want to be able to have my fun on the track without "extra" drama. I think you may have shifted me to a 60/40 balance. I can feel myself slipping off the fence.
I would be really keen to hear from geezers wot have raced both types of bike in F3. Somebody :Pokey:

Sully60

it doesn't matter specifically about F3. The same could be said about dumb rules in F1 etc. Don't limit yourself to the opinions of F3 riders. If I start to race again, I want to test myself against all comers, not just a bunch of bikes almost the same as mine that are old, fragile and
boring.

[idleidolidyll]

:woohoo:What a great stir. I only started racing F3 last Actrix Winter Series so I didn't get to experience motards in the field. What I remember hearing most often from F3 riders prior to this were problems with some motards outbraking into slower corners, then taking lines that obstructed the street-bikes from getting through the corner in normal fashion with their normal speed. The Street bike would then get past the motard to have it all happen again at the next tight corner. My reaction at the time was "If they are gonna fuck up my fun I want them out of there".

that's racing. i udes to do the same on my ducati and on my honda and it aint because they are motards

If nothing else this thread has made me stop and think about this reaction. There is real merit to having diversity in the F3 class and keeping the innovation going. The idea seems to work for evolution. Evolve or die etc. The crunch comes for me, when I realise that I don't want to race like a motard rider or ride a motard (am I being seduced by an unsubstantiated stereo-type here?), I want to ride my 4 cyclinder dinasaur as fast as I can. This might be easier for me without motards scaring me or blocking my preferred line.

fine, apply for a 400cc dinosaur class and get the old fours out of the F3 class where they can only win by banning better bikes

What you have done III is raised the question of whether I would be a better racer if I learned to cope with motards? Even further down the road, might I enjoy the battles with the motards? I don't know and my understanding is that MNZ have legislated that club meetings can not use special regs to get around this, so unless something changes I am unlikely to find out. Sully60

In racing the best lesson is to learn how every style works; that gives you choices and as Briggs has shown, you don't need a motard to ride that way. MNZ might have left clubs to themselves but that's not the point. Many clubs will follow MNZ rules anyway and why the hell should F3 be restricted to dinosaurs? Isn't this supposed to be a premiere class?

[idleidolidyll]

An observation that probably doesn't add much of value to the debate occurred while doing some corner marshalling at the Manfield hairpin at a track day a while back. There were three motard riders out in the medium group circulating reasonably quickly and making great sport out of backing into the hairpin and carving up road riders. I know this was sport for them as I could hear the hooting and I also spoke to them after the session about the appropriateness of their behaviour. Any rider on any bike can ride in an unsafe manner, my piss-weak point is that I suspect that the ability to do this kind of stuff (more easily than in my road bike) is part of the attraction of motards and riding like this will happen. Does that constitute a safety issue or an added challenge to spice up racing?

Nope; that is just racing and it can be done on many bikes that are not motards

I am strangely attracted to your argument that it is racing, and the winner is the rider who crosses the finish line first. I also want to be able to have my fun on the track without "extra" drama. I think you may have shifted me to a 60/40 balance. I can feel myself slipping off the fence.
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Sully60

it doesn't matter specifically about F3. The same could be said about dumb rules in F1 etc. Don't limit yourself to the opinions of F3 riders. If I start to race again, I want to test myself against all comers, not just a bunch of bikes almost the same as mine that are old, fragile and
boring.

[idleidolidyll]

An observation marshalling at the Manfield hairpin at a track day a while back. There were three motard riders out in the medium group circulating reasonably quickly and making great sport out of backing into the hairpin and carving up road riders. I know this was sport for them as I could hear the hooting and I also spoke to them after the session about the appropriateness of their behaviour. Any rider on any bike can ride in an unsafe manner, my piss-weak point is that I suspect that the ability to do this kind of stuff (more easily than in my road bike) is part of the attraction of motards and riding like this will happen. Does that constitute a safety issue or an added challenge to spice up racing?

Nope; that is just racing and it can be done on many bikes that are not motards

I am strangely attracted to your argument that it is racing, and the winner is the rider who crosses the finish line first. I also want to be able to have my fun on the track without "extra" drama. I think you may have shifted me to a 60/40 balance. I can feel myself slipping off the fence.
I would be really keen to hear from geezers wot have raced both types of bike in F3. Somebody <!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shapetype id="_x0000_t75" coordsize="21600,21600" o:spt="75" o:preferrelative="t" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" filled="f" stroked="f"> <v:stroke joinstyle="miter"/> <v:formulas> <v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"/> <v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"/> <v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"/> <v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"/> <v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"/> <v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"/> <v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"/> <v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"/> <v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"/> <v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"/> <v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"/> <v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"/> </v:formulas> <v:path o:extrusionok="f" gradientshapeok="t" o:connecttype="rect"/> <o:lock v:ext="edit" aspectratio="t"/> </v:shapetype><v:shape id="_x0000_i1025" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style='width:45pt; height:16.8pt'> <v:imagedata src="file:///E:\DOCUME~1\Me\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtml1\01\clip_imag e001.gif" o:href="http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/images/smilies/pokey.gif"/> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]-->:Pokey:<!--[endif]-->

Sully60

it doesn't matter specifically about F3. The same could be said about dumb rules in F1 etc. Don't limit yourself to the opinions of F3 riders. If I start to race again, I want to test myself against all comers, all styles; not just a bunch of bikes almost the same as mine that are old, fragile and boring ridden by people who think there is only one line.

[idleidolidyll]

There were three motard riders out in the medium group circulating reasonably quickly and making great sport out of backing into the hairpin and carving up road riders. I know this was sport for them as I could hear the hooting and I also spoke to them after the session about the appropriateness of their behaviour. Any rider on any bike can ride in an unsafe manner, my piss-weak point is that I suspect that the ability to do this kind of stuff (more easily than in my road bike) is part of the attraction of motards and riding like this will happen. Does that constitute a safety issue or an added challenge to spice up racing?

Nope; that is just racing and it can be done on many bikes that are not motards

I am strangely attracted to your argument that it is racing, and the winner is the rider who crosses the finish line first. I also want to be able to have my fun on the track without "extra" drama. I think you may have shifted me to a 60/40 balance. I can feel myself slipping off the fence.
I would be really keen to hear from geezers wot have raced both types of bike in F3. Somebody <!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shapetype id="_x0000_t75" coordsize="21600,21600" o:spt="75" o:preferrelative="t" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" filled="f" stroked="f"> <v:stroke joinstyle="miter"/> <v:formulas> <v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"/> <v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"/> <v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"/> <v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"/> <v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"/> <v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"/> <v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"/> <v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"/> <v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"/> <v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"/> <v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"/> <v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"/> </v:formulas> <v:path o:extrusionok="f" gradientshapeok="t" o:connecttype="rect"/> <o:lock v:ext="edit" aspectratio="t"/> </v:shapetype><v:shape id="_x0000_i1025" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style='width:45pt; height:16.8pt'> <v:imagedata src="file:///E:\DOCUME~1\Me\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtml1\01\clip_imag e001.gif" o:href="http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/images/smilies/pokey.gif"/> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]-->:Pokey:<!--[endif]-->

Sully60

it doesn't matter specifically about F3. The same could be said about dumb rules in F1 etc. Don't limit yourself to the opinions of F3 riders. If I start to race again, I want to test myself against all comers, all styles; not just a bunch of bikes almost the same as mine that are old, fragile and boring ridden by people who think there is only one line.

[idleidolidyll]

Mate I'm happy to stand corrected but Im pretty sure even a GSthou still qualifies under this rule.
I'd measure the bar heights of the naked bikes you'd concider racing. Bet they would qualify

then you'd be wrong: i would be pleased to race a KTM Duke ROAD BIKE with its 140mm suspension etc. The seat height is about 865mm and the bars are way higher than that. It's banned by ignorance and jealousy, not by common sense and reason

[idleidolidyll]

I don't want to bash MNZ on this thread, but (please excuse my naivety), what did MNZ do this year to promote the series?

Bernard racing organised the Aussies and Yanks didn't he? Bloody great too Brian!
The new LCR sidecars brought into NZ weren't organised by MNZ, but did improve numbers/quality/apperances.
Did MNZ make Craig Sherriffs pull finger and ride like a demon?
Did they buy Sam Smith a new bike or give him the learn? (Prior to his crash - he was on fire).
Did MNZ get Mr Rocket Bugden to NZ?
All of the above events made this year a better year for spectators, but I wouldn't go as far as saying it was MNZ's doing.
Ivan, I've been around for over 2 decades in the sport, and I can see it going downhill fast!
Many years ago we had vastly larger numbers of spectators.
Now its not even promoted as a national series - its now a Superbike series! Do you race a superbike Ivan? I don't, neither does Glen Williams. Infact, on the NZSBK website, they don't even include sidecars in their classes for the series!! Hold on, I pay the same fees as all the other classes, but I can't tell my sponsor I race in a national event!! What the f@@k??
Did you lose your prizemoney for the benefit of advertising? Do you think you got value for your losses?
I won all the South Island races, and yet as like you, I didn't see any of our class on TV. Considering that the NZ sidecar class now has the fastest sidecar in the world, (and the most expensive race machine currently on the track), don't you think that that would be a good enough reason for promotion on TV?
MNZ do need to listen to the voices of the people they are volunteering to help. They need to hold workshops with competitors!!

excellent post

[Ivan]

If youve looked at F3 the Majority of bikes out there are SV650s they aint old, and man someo of those guys with them so called old 400's make them boogie, I love the F3 its a great class and I would love to see farm bikes out there modified to suit road racing....

Plain and simple if you wanna road race.

GET A ROAD RACE BIKE

If you wanna do MotoX

GET A MOTOX BIKE

If you wanna have a rant about bar height rules why not tell the 400 boys to piss off and make there own class why dont you piss off and make your own class of racing that has a rule no bikes without bars under 900mm or something

And piss off wasnt ment as in Piss off away as in A saying go and do it

Im not good with trying to get across what I say but Im trying my hardest here remember ive only been around the sport a few years I started at 13 and im 18 now so I aint been in it that long at all

[idleidolidyll]

In my opinion MNZ mostly does a good job. Any organisation representing such a diverse group is going to piss people off and make decisions that some don't like. I wouldn't do it for quids. No matter where conference is held it will still be too far for some. The debate and discussion goes on all the time at club and national level.

you must be young; like scrivy, i've been racing and watching racing for 3 decades and frankly it sucks now compared to then

'better' is a very subjective term. better than what? last year? 2 years ago?

certainly not better than the mid eighties or the fantastic Marlborough Series of the late 70's early 80's

[idleidolidyll]

Blingo. But somehow the valid point/question Idol was trying to make about MNZ (being hopeless) has been sidetracked by umm...himself due to him ranting about the same old F3 / Supermotards crap that's been played over a dozen times (F3 RACERS had a petition, they voted to not have the motards...end of story basically).

yeah, they sent a petition around to their mates with 400's and golly gee, they signed it.

i bet a million bucks they didn't give most of the motard riders a chance and they sure as fuck didn't consider people coming into the sport or returning.

THAT is just an example of the MNZ rationality vacuum

[Ivan]

Clives an oldy:Pokey:

[idleidolidyll]

So they spent more money, made better bikes and got hated for it?


nope, they spent big biucks making old crap go fast and then engineered the rules so that faster modern bikes didn't even get a chance to race

[Goblin]

..it doesn't matter specifically about F3. The same could be said about dumb rules in F1 etc..... boring.[/COLOR]Did you not find the multi quote function?

Back on topic...I see Shaun has put his hand up for The Good Of Road Racing...http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=70176
I for one would be keen to see him as a North Island Road rep. If we can band together and get enough votes for him to achieve this then we will have one board member with the balls and tenacity to gradually make a difference, for the better, in road racing.
How say you savages??

[White trash]

nope, they spent big biucks making old crap go fast and then engineered the rules so that faster modern bikes didn't even get a chance to race
Ummmm, that'd be why those SV650s do so poorly. Not being allowed to race and all..........

[idleidolidyll]

I used to be of the opinion that they are fine to be in the class and anyone should be able to ride.

Till at ruapuna one day I nearly had a big off (and the motard rider actually did fall off) after he got his handlebar caught over my neck when I was going past him. Was quite a scary experience. He actually crashed trying to get us untangled. I ran off the track doing 130 odd. I have also had another instance where I was nearly clotheslined by one when I was trying to go round the outside of him.

Their lines are a bit of an annoyance sometimes but its a bit of a cop out to say that its unsafe.

I signed the petition only due to the safety issues of the way in which the handlebars got caught on me. If it was another 125 or road racing bike we would have just touched elbows (pretty normal for 125's) and been ready for the next corner.

so we are to be confined to short uncomfortable bikes in favour of old fashioned 4's when comfy big singles are often faster and more exciting to watch?

yep; racing is so fukkin PC we may as well be another switzerland

[scracha]

If you wanna have a rant about bar height rules why not tell the 400 boys to piss off and make there own class why dont you piss off and make your own


http://www.400racing.com/

Sounds good to me. The reason half the 400's are so old and "fucked" is that they're pre 89. A class with horsepower limits and a minimum weight limit would be very entertaining.

[idleidolidyll]

If youve looked at F3 the Majority of bikes out there are SV650s they aint old, and man someo of those guys with them so called old 400's make them boogie, I love the F3 its a great class and I would love to see farm bikes out there modified to suit road racing....

Plain and simple if you wanna road race.

GET A ROAD RACE BIKE

Most modern motards ARE road race bikes designed specifically to race on tarmac. The sv650 is Ok but I don't want to race one, i want to race something like a KTM Duke ROAD BIKE but the dipshit rules ban them.

If you wanna do MotoX

GET A MOTOX BIKE

A 150kg KTM Supermoto is NOT a MX bike.

If you wanna have a rant about bar height rules why not tell the 400 boys to piss off and make there own class why dont you piss off and make your own class of racing that has a rule no bikes without bars under 900mm or something

because the 400's are old crap and F3 should allow new blood not mire itself in the past

And piss off wasnt ment as in Piss off away as in A saying go and do it

sure, just like fuck u too, we're all so misunderstood!

Im not good with trying to get across what I say but Im trying my hardest here remember ive only been around the sport a few years I started at 13 and im 18 now so I aint been in it that long at all

Oh? so when you rail at someone with 20 years of racing experience, what do you think they make of your arguments?

[White trash]

http://www.400racing.com/

Sounds good to me. The reason half the 400's are so old and "fucked" is that they're pre 89. A class with horsepower limits and a minimum weight limit would be very entertaining.
III, you're obviously very passionate about the subject and it's comendable that you've kept your arguments clean where most wouldn't have.

But the fact remains, there is a Motard class, you can race them. In their class. So no one's confined to any bikes. You wanna race a ZXR400, race one. Against other 400s. Wanna race a 'Tard? Do so, against other tards. Where exactly is the problem again?

[idleidolidyll]

Ummmm, that'd be why those SV650s do so poorly. Not being allowed to race and all..........

why the hell would i want to ride a jappa? i like euros but the best are banned effectively from the class

[idleidolidyll]

http://www.400racing.com/

Sounds good to me. The reason half the 400's are so old and "fucked" is that they're pre 89. A class with horsepower limits and a minimum weight limit would be very entertaining.

not if they made it one of the Formula classes. Let the old crap have their own classic class but don't let them prevent better modern bikes and home built special racing.

[White trash]

Oh? so when you rail at someone with 20 years of racing experience, what do you think they make of your arguments?
And now you've just contradicted yourself by saying that because you have four times the experience, you know more and your opinions are right. This directly after having a go at MNZ for their stagnated ideas and dinosaur procedures.

You simply aint making sense man.

[Clivoris]

you must be young; like scrivy, i've been racing and watching racing for 3 decades and frankly it sucks now compared to then

'better' is a very subjective term. better than what? last year? 2 years ago?

certainly not better than the mid eighties or the fantastic Marlborough Series of the late 70's early 80's
Mmm. Not young, not old, somewhere around the middle I hope. I started riding around the late 70's but had very little interest in the road scene. The mid 80's were certainly the golden years and personally wonder how similar times could happen again. The resurgance in motorcycling gives some hope. How to take advantage of this?
Without doubt MNZ make mistakes. I didn't see or hear any advertising for the Nationals but I don't have Sky or listen to The Rock/The Edge..... I am also very disappointed in the tv coverage. I thought all the meetings were to be televised, I'm not sure about this anymore. I didn't see tv cameras at Manfield. I am reluctant to spit the dummy about it, as I know what it is like when those on the outside complain bitterly but don't step up to deliver any meaningful solutions. It doesn't work. Maybe you're right about trying to change it from the inside as well. I certainly don't have the energy.

Clives an oldy:Pokey::laugh: you forgot "and slow".

[White trash]

why the hell would i want to ride a jappa?

Because they won the Formula 3 class this year????

Can't beat em? Join em.

[Goblin]

If youve looked at F3 the Majority of bikes out there are SV650s they aint old, and man some of those guys with them so called old 400's make them boogie, I love the F3 its a great class and I would love to see farm bikes out there modified to suit road racing....

Plain and simple if you wanna road race.

GET A ROAD RACE BIKE

If you wanna do MotoX

GET A MOTOX BIKEBut there's the difference...riding a dirtbike set up for road is SOMETHING ELSE!! And it's not a new thing. I had the joy of riding a TT500 in an RM400 frame, with road tyres and gearing way back in the '80s. That bike was a weapon on the road!! Dont knock it til you try it.


If you wanna have a rant about bar height rules why not tell the 400 boys to piss off and make there own class why dont you piss off and make your own class of racing that has a rule no bikes without bars under 900mm or something
My first few races(on an old 400) were with motards, SV650s and 125s and all sorts and it was GREAT! Maybe I'm alone here but I did feel kind of ripped off when motards were excluded.

[merv]

you must be young; like scrivy, i've been racing and watching racing for 3 decades and frankly it sucks now compared to then

'better' is a very subjective term. better than what? last year? 2 years ago?

certainly not better than the mid eighties or the fantastic Marlborough Series of the late 70's early 80's

That's Marlboro to you sonny, not Marlborough. Ran for five summers from 73/74 until 77/78 certainly not into the 80's. Yeah those days were just fantastic compared to what I've seen lately.

[idleidolidyll]

sure; after they legislated out half the competition

i'd almost be ashamed to win such a hollow victory

[merv]

OK here's another idea, if we are going to have moto-x bikes out there what about having them stock with knobbly tyres and all and then see who has the skill with that combination?

[idleidolidyll]

That's Marlboro to you sonny, not Marlborough. Ran for five summers from 73/74 until 77/78 certainly not into the 80's. Yeah those days were just fantastic compared to what I've seen lately.

if i were to bash bad spelling we'd be here arguing forever

yep, the best ever series with stunning international talent to boot.

74 was when i started paying attention even though i was a motocrosser at that tender age

road racing looked interesting and exciting compared to the yawn i see so often today

[Drew]

why the hell would i want to ride a jappa? i like euros but the best are banned effectively from the class

Get a Raptor then, it's put together in Euroland. Not keen? Get a Brutale, bet the bars are nowhere near 900mm. Wanna twin? Get a tuono.

HARDEN THE FUCK UP, stop crying and making excuses, if you're such a racing god we should all be bowing down to you, get out there on one of the many bikes that DO qualify for whatever class you intend to dessimate, and prove it bitch.

Got fiddy in my pocket, says me and both my brothers can not just beat your old ass, but damn well embarass you.

[idleidolidyll]

OK here's another idea, if we are going to have moto-x bikes out there what about having them stock with knobbly tyres and all and then see who has the skill with that combination?

1st prize for dumbest post

so what about KTM 690SM's? they are sold standard with 17" wheels and sticky road tyres. In fact, out of the box they have better rubber than most jappas

[idleidolidyll]

Get a Raptor then, it's put together in Euroland. Not keen? Get a Brutale, bet the bars are nowhere near 900mm. Wanna twin? Get a tuono.

HARDEN THE FUCK UP, stop crying and making excuses, if you're such a racing god we should all be bowing down to you, get out there on one of the many bikes that DO qualify for whatever class you intend to dessimate, and prove it bitch.

Got fiddy in my pocket, says me and both my brothers can not just beat your old ass, but damn well embarass you.

a raptor is just a jappa in wop clothes.

harden the fuck up yourself and let all the bikes in ya pansy

[merv]

1st prize for dumbest post


Thanks and I've never told you any of your posts are dumb :rolleyes:

[Drew]

jappas

a biggot, is a biggot, is a biggot.

You are entitled to think Euro bikes are better, but christ man, pick one argument, and try making it, before picking up the next axe to grind.

[Goblin]

And now you've just contradicted yourself by saying that because you have four times the experience, you know more and your opinions are right. This directly after having a go at MNZ for their stagnated ideas and dinosaur procedures.

You simply aint making sense man.So did you not have a wee issue with the race officials at Wangas after the farce that was F1? Didn't that thread have a little winge to MNZ?

[idleidolidyll]

a biggot, is a biggot, is a biggot.

You are entitled to think Euro bikes are better, but christ man, pick one argument, and try making it, before picking up the next axe to grind.

so my opposition is allowed to bounce all over the show but i've gotta toe one line?

fuck you're ridiculous

BTW; i've owned more jappas than euros

what are you weasels afraid of again? wide bars, sliding, spinning, mx bikes, euros?

what a pack of soft bastards

[Drew]

So did you not have a wee issue with the race officials at Wangas after the farce that was F1? Didn't that thread have a little winge to MNZ?

You might wanna go re-read that thread, the bitch to MNZ was about the complaints process, not the actual events at Wanganui.

I understand tho, when you're on the wrong side of an argument, it's easy to try and pick holes in the oposition.

[idleidolidyll]

Thanks and I've never told you any of your posts are dumb :rolleyes:

credit where credit's due: i know that was what you were trolling for

[Drew]

so my opposition is allowed to bounce all over the show but i've gotta toe one line?

fuck you're ridiculous

BTW; i've owned more jappas than euros

what are you weasels afraid of again? wide bars, sliding, spinning, mx bikes, euros?

what a pack of soft bastards

I'm just not bright enough to keep up with more than one argument at a time is all.

And by the way, if you ever do man up and come to the track, I'll be riding a Ducati, giving the bonus that you cant cry about being regulated out of competition.

[Goblin]

You might wanna go re-read that thread, the bitch to MNZ was about the complaints process, not the actual events at Wanganui.

I understand tho, when you're on the wrong side of an argument, it's easy to try and pick holes in the oposition.Cant be naffed searching for it now but was there any satisfaction from MNZ in regards to the complaints process or was WT just fobbed off?

[Drew]

a raptor is just a jappa in wop clothes.

harden the fuck up yourself and let all the bikes in ya pansy


Thread's moving too fast and I near missed this wee gem.

Lets get it straight, I DIDN'T sign the petition. I too was of the opinion, "race whatever you've got that fits the bill".

But I fully understand why some people wanted the bikes out, from personal experiences.

Lets you and I hire Pukie, then we'll find a Pansy I'm sure.

[Drew]

Cant be naffed searching for it now but was there any satisfaction from MNZ in regards to the complaints process or was WT just fobbed off?

Dunno, is that in ANY way related to this topic?

If it's all about not getting satisfaction from the governing body, this thread is gonna get real big, real quick.

[Goblin]

Dunno, is that in ANY way related to this topic?

If it's all about not getting satisfaction from the governing body, this thread is gonna get real big, real quick.It's related in EVERY way to the topic. Look at the title...Has MNZ lost all revelance? I believe it has! You didn't answer my question...Did WT get any satisfaction from MNZ or did he get fobbed off?

[Drew]

You didn't answer my question...Did WT get any satisfaction from MNZ or did he get fobbed off?



Yeah I did, dunno what the outcome was, I imagine he got fobbed off.

I dont disagree that the running of our beloved sport is being done in a halfarsed, hadhazard manner.

To go back to the original question then, yes, MNZ are gettin it wrong a lot. Wanna change that? Get in and do it the right way, bitching on here just wont cut the mustard.

[Goblin]

Yeah I did, dunno what the outcome was, I imagine he got fobbed off.

I dont disagree that the running of our beloved sport is being done in a halfarsed, hadhazard manner.

To go back to the original question then, yes, MNZ are gettin it wrong a lot. Wanna change that? Get in and do it the right way, bitching on here just wont cut the mustard.Eggzachery! I would love to change that but me, myself, as a newbie racer in F3 and Pre89 classics aint gunna cut the mustard! This is where we need someone like Shaun or III who has the balls to call it as they see it, with no hidden agendas, to come forward and make these changes come about. Someone to speak for the riders who pay the salary of MNZ CEO.

I was pissed off at how WT and others were treated at Wangas when they won their grid positions fair and square. Writing letters to MNZ is a complete waste of time, energy and effort so you might as well be pissing in the wind. You may not like III personally or they way he comes across but at least he has the experience and the balls to speak up and the want to make changes.

[stanko]

There are rules in most classes we disagree with, shit I think I should be allowed 4 spot brakes and flatslides on my pre 82, be cool to run methanol on my bucket. but for one reason or another the rules exclude them.
F3 rules exclude bikes with high handlebars, so if that means your dream bike is excluded thats just tough.
Do we go on endlessly at cops who write speeding tickets.? (except at KB)
If you cant live under the MNZ framework bad luck, get over it. Unless you are prepared to make a big comittment to becoming involved at a high level no amount of winging or assertive opinion is going to change anything

[Goblin]

so we just bend over and take it up the pooh hole because that's the status quo.

[Burrt Badger]

Well said Stanko.
If you want to go Road Racing, buy and race a Road Race bike. If you want to Motard and MX or Enduro, race an off roader. If you want to race a big single or V twin off road engine, put it in a road race chassis and go Road Racing.
Imagine showing up at a MX with an SV650 or an ZX10 and racing the MX riders with sweeping lines and trying to get your knee down. Shit what a weapon in a straight line, but the corners could be difficult, for both the MX boys and the road bike. Bring anything to mind?
Reminds me of a TZ700 engined flat tracker the raced once before it was banned.
Off road = off road and Road Race = Road race.

[scott411]

Well said Stanko.
If you want to go Road Racing, buy and race a Road Race bike. If you want to Motard and MX or Enduro, race an off roader. If you want to race a big single or V twin off road engine, put it in a road race chassis and go Road Racing.
Imagine showing up at a MX with an SV650 or an ZX10 and racing the MX riders with sweeping lines and trying to get your knee down. Shit what a weapon in a straight line, but the corners could be difficult, for both the MX boys and the rod bike. Reminds me of a TZ700 engined flat tracker the raced once before it was banned.
Off road = off road and Road Race = Road race.

turn up with a zx10 at a mx, you will get laughed at, but never banned from any class, a freindly steward would advice you not be so stupid, not even when the novice class laps you every other lap, they do not care if you turn up with a bike that was built in japan, europe or usa, the guys at an average mx do not argue about stupid things like what bikes to ban, they just go out and race each other, its quite a good system

[viewer]

If you cant live under the MNZ framework bad luck, get over it. Unless you are prepared to make a big comittment to becoming involved at a high level no amount of winging or assertive opinion is going to change anything

What about starting up in competition to MNZ? Riders for riders!
Sort out all the shit and get riders input. :yes::yes:
Good way forward?

[scott411]

What about starting up in competition to MNZ? Riders for riders!
Sort out all the shit and get riders input. :yes::yes:
Good way forward?

did not really work for open wheel racing in the states,

2 natioanls series, with split competition, does not sound very exciting when people are already saying the national series is boring to watch

[scrivy]

2 natioanls series, with split competition, does not sound very exciting when people are already saying the national series is boring to watch

What if it was run as a business? You know, listen to your customers, advertise, sponsors........

[scrivy]

World superbikes proves you have to listen to riders.
Also the riders reps of GPs years ago - the riders decided where was safe, and if they would/wouldn't race.

[scrivy]

Why is it that even Winter series meets have larger numbers than the Nationals? If only we could get 1/2 of them to do the Nats, it would be far better to watch.

[scott411]

What if it was run as a business? You know, listen to your customers, advertise, sponsors........


if am sure if you put your name up for Paul Stewarts Job, he would have no probs handing it over, i bet his family and his employer would love you for it as well,

and you could not pay me enough money to be CEO of MNZ, the road racers can't get on with each other (this thread proves it) the mxers are at each other just as bad, the speedway bikes think the rest of motorcycling have abanoned them, we can never agree with each other, and i can't imagine trying to get us all to play together nicely,

i suggest going to a MNZ conference, its an eye opener, i have been to about 5 of them, i have come to the conclusion that their are very few right answers, only lots of opinions, and no way to prove any of them,

my current thinking is that mnz should downsize and stop trying to be so professional, just get cheaper to join, and let promotors run the major champioonships (rr, mx sx etc) i think we are trying to be bigger than we are, but i have not always thought this, and i may jsut change my mind again,

[scott411]

Why is it that even Winter series meets have larger numbers than the Nationals? If only we could get 1/2 of them to do the Nats, it would be far better to watch.


because they are cheaper to enter, you get more racing, you do not have to turn up friday open practice to be competive, and to be honest prob a whole lot more fun to race in,

[Hellraiser]

Now i have had first hand experance on how much Motorcycling NZ wants to keep Motards restriced to their own class.

A while back i asked some questions about weather i could enter a Aprilia SXV into the pro twins, now most people on this site said no because it's a motard, some of the others told me to contact Motorcycling NZ which i did.

I contacted Motorcycling NZ who told me the best person to talk to was Paul Stewart so i contacted paul and this is where it got interesting.

I explained to him that i was looking at entering an SXV in the pro twins i told him it was 550 cc Vtwin he said that as long as it complied with the rest of the rules i shouldn't have any problems, I told him that i couldn't find it on the homologated models list, which i was told it wasn't a big issue just a matter of applying to have it added. So i thought i was in with a grin .... lol

But alas no ............... once i pointed out that the SXV is a motard i was told that i was not allowed to enter it in the Pro Twins when i asked why i was told that motards have their own class, when i pointed out that it does not say any where in the rules that motards are excluded, he told me it was a safety issue so i will not be allowed to enter it.

So i pointed out to him that the SXV has more HP than a stock SV650 has better brakes, has better suspension, has a 180/55/17 rear and goes around corners using the same lines as a SV650, and his reply ....... ?

IT IS A MOTARD there fore it is banned.

So again i have asked him to show me the rule excluding it .......... that was 3 weeks ago and i have still not had a reply even though i have emailed him every week since.

So what do i do?

[Goblin]

if am sure if you put your name up for Paul Stewarts Job, he would have no probs handing it over, i bet his family and his employer would love you for it as well,

and you could not pay me enough money to be CEO of MNZ, the road racers can't get on with each other (this thread proves it) the mxers are at each other just as bad, the speedway bikes think the rest of motorcycling have abanoned them, we can never agree with each other, and i can't imagine trying to get us all to play together nicely,

i suggest going to a MNZ conference, its an eye opener, i have been to about 5 of them, i have come to the conclusion that their are very few right answers, only lots of opinions, and no way to prove any of them,

my current thinking is that mnz should downsize and stop trying to be so professional, just get cheaper to join, and let promotors run the major champioonships (rr, mx sx etc) i think we are trying to be bigger than we are, but i have not always thought this, and i may jsut change my mind again,I just have to quote your post so everyone can read it again. I think you're onto it!

[Goblin]

So what do i do?You bend over and take it up the poop shute!:spanking: You've been told!

See nobody knows what the rules are and apparently they can be changed on a whim, without rhyme or reason, and the riders who actually do the racing dont have a say. I have no idea how MNZ should be run but I can see a shitload of unhappy racers.

[HDTboy]

my current thinking is that mnz should downsize and stop trying to be so professional, just get cheaper to join, and let promotors run the major champioonships (rr, mx sx etc) i think we are trying to be bigger than we are, but i have not always thought this, and i may jsut change my mind again,

I concur.
Look at what Avesco did for v8supercars(tm) they're a company selling entertainment to spectators under licence.

On a smaller scale, look at Springs Promotions, again, a company selling entertainment under licence.

[roadracingoldfart]

the point is to leave the fukkin rules alone so that diversity is encouraged but now they're so fucked they have to go backwards to be relevant again

and if you've been awake you'd have noticed that i'd never fit in with MNZ as long as it acts as it has for the past few decades

just say duh!

Are you saying that you will fit in anywhere ??? at all !!!

What a stupid meaningless argument you are fronting.
The rules are placed by MNZ at the request of the members effected and thats it , just suck it man.

From what i saw at Wanganui last year then BEARS is made up of a couple of V-Twins and a bunch of Motards that still have energy from thier main class.
Maybee BEARS needs to look at its own door step and stop the influx of trail bikes into its midst. Hell you say it happened before then thats the real threat now , isnt it ??. They only get in because of the country of origin, not any other reason , now thats a sepritist class if ever i heard one.

Ahh well my 2 cents worth for you to rubbish.

[roadracingoldfart]

if you're such a racing god we should all be bowing down to you, get out there on one of the many bikes that DO qualify for whatever class you intend to dessimate, and prove it bitch.

Got fiddy in my pocket, says me and both my brothers can not just beat your old ass, but damn well embarass you.



Id put another bit on the table Drew lol we can take odds and watch the profit roll with its foot out in the corners. :rolleyes:

[Kickaha]

See nobody knows what the rules are and apparently they can be changed on a whim, without rhyme or reason, and the riders who actually do the racing dont have a say. I have no idea how MNZ should be run but I can see a shitload of unhappy racers.

The rules are up on the MNZ website and are quite easy to find for anyone who has a genuine interest in them, there is a procedure for getting them changed which can be done through your club (don't ask me what it is I've never needed to do it)

[Deano]

a raptor is just a jappa in wop clothes.

harden the fuck up yourself and let all the bikes in ya pansy

So your issue is with 'Jappas' then. Make you mind up.

And if the motarders are such great riders, why aren't they content to race against each other in a motard class, instead of entering F3 ?

The only reason I ever got beaten by them on my 400 was due to HP not ability.

And no I did not sign any petition.

[Robert Taylor]

Are you saying that you will fit in anywhere ??? at all !!!

What a stupid meaningless argument you are fronting.
The rules are placed by MNZ at the request of the members effected and thats it , just suck it man.

From what i saw at Wanganui last year then BEARS is made up of a couple of V-Twins and a bunch of Motards that still have energy from thier main class.
Maybee BEARS needs to look at its own door step and stop the influx of trail bikes into its midst. Hell you say it happened before then thats the real threat now , isnt it ??. They only get in because of the country of origin, not any other reason , now thats a sepritist class if ever i heard one.

Ahh well my 2 cents worth for you to rubbish.

Amen to that and also Scotts take. And it certainly doesnt help being so obnoxious and scathing of people who dont share the same opinion.

[codgyoleracer]

(QUOTE) But the fact remains, there is a Motard class, you can race them. In their class. So no one's confined to any bikes. You wanna race a ZXR400, race one. Against other 400s. Wanna race a 'Tard? Do so, against other tards. Where exactly is the problem again?[/QUOTE] Whitetrash

Hi Jimmy, I assume what he is trying to get at is that the rules are getting a little to specific for a "formula class" which is theoretically a class for "almost do what ya want " machine-wise. (although you could argue that the 2stroke rules in the class now are a little out of touch)

As an example - if "Naked Bikes" or "Touring Bikes" started racing in Superbikes should they be banned ? - as their style would be quite different....... I recall a certain Hayabusa doing not to badly in the right hands...........
I dont give a rats arse where motorcycles originate from as far as class racing & bears is about as racist as bike racing gets - however the bears racing did have a pretty wide spread of "qualifying machines" & appeared to drag in a lot of new riders for the sheer fun of being able to get out & race on a track.
As I said before - other than the width of the bars - i dont see a problem with motard style bikes in the F3 class.

In reality though the motards do appear to have enough entrants to run there own class at many meetings anyway (especially the big meetings & street meetings) , & if this is the case & the guys cant be bothered changing there handle height/width to qualify for F3 - then so be it.

Can someone tell me- if you run a clip on bar low enough on the fork on motard bike - does this alone qualify it for F3 - or is it the "style of the bike" as well that is listed as not allowed ?

Cheers
Glen

[GaZBur]

(QUOTE) ....

Can someone tell me- if you run a clip on bar low enough on the fork on motard bike - does this alone qualify it for F3 - or is it the "style of the bike" as well that is listed as not allowed ?

Cheers
Glen

From The MNZ Rulebook (http://www.mnz.co.nz/competitionrules.aspx)


F-3 rule extract...
B: Any machine complying with Rule No 34-2-3 and 34-5 is automatically excluded from
entering any Formula 3 event.
Any includes all events whether they are MNZ titled events or not, this is for safety
reasons.
It must not be amended or altered in anyway by the use of Supplementary Reuglations.
SuperMotard rule extract

34-2-3 Machines:
Must be of an original OEM off road origin. If a Super Motard model is made then a
purpose built off road bike must also be available from the manufacturer.


34-5 Frames
Must be of original OEM dirt bike origin without alteration to steering head and swinging
arm pivot.


So I guess that means No, but I am no lawyer.

[Goblin]

The rules are up on the MNZ website and are quite easy to find for anyone who has a genuine interest in them, there is a procedure for getting them changed which can be done through your club (don't ask me what it is I've never needed to do it) Yeah they're easy to find in the MNZ Manual Of Motorcycle Sport too but they're too open to interpretation, written in a way that you'd need to be a lawyer to understand some of it. And what's the point in having these rules when they can be changed without notice to the riders? Like the Wanganui Farce.
Grid positions will be determined by one of the following two methods: a, Where a reliable lap scoring/timing system is available, lap times recorded in practice will determine grid positions for Championship races.
b, Where a lap scoring/timing system is not available, grid positions will be determined, for the first race of every year, on the official results of the previous years Championship finishing top ten place getters, or at the discretion of the Road Race Commission Representative. The grids for the following Championship races will be allocated on the accumulated points as at the start of that race, or at the discretion of the Road Race Commission Representative.
Now I do understand that bit but how can they change that rule to allow other racers to take the front row grid positions when they didnt even do the practice? And who was the Representative and who knew where to find him/her?

[scott411]

From The MNZ Rulebook (http://www.mnz.co.nz/competitionrules.aspx)


F-3 rule extract...
B: Any machine complying with Rule No 34-2-3 and 34-5 is automatically excluded from
entering any Formula 3 event.
Any includes all events whether they are MNZ titled events or not, this is for safety
reasons.
It must not be amended or altered in anyway by the use of Supplementary Reuglations.
SuperMotard rule extract

34-2-3 Machines:
Must be of an original OEM off road origin. If a Super Motard model is made then a
purpose built off road bike must also be available from the manufacturer.


34-5 Frames
Must be of original OEM dirt bike origin without alteration to steering head and swinging
arm pivot.


So I guess that means No, but I am no lawyer.




you have looked at 2 parts of the rule book, and matched up the rules to suit,

the super motard section is only relevent to super motord events where thier is a dirt section, it does not apply to the supermotard class at a road race event, apart from wanganui, these do not apply to any other road race meeting,

the f3 rules are in the road race section that pertain to road racing only, the rule that excludes motards from that class is the 900mm maximum handlebar hieght,

F3 is a great class, it is the only entry level class left, and i think the addition of a pro twin class as part of it is a good thing, i also think the introduction of a super singles (gp bikes using 450mx doner frames and engine) class with in it would be awesome as well, the bikes are all with in a similar speed and could provide a good spectical in racing each other, this is seen in the car racing with the production series, 3 different classes racing in one race,

[scott411]

. And what's the point in having these rules when they can be changed without notice to the riders?

the steward of the day always has the last say on how the rules are put into place, like a rugby referee their are many people offering opinions, but few offereing to do the job,

(i am not supporting the stewards call at wanganui, i am just stating the way it is, sometimes you have to make calls on the spot, sometimes the steward gets them wrong)


as for rules, people will read anything in a way to suit themselves, or try to find ways to go faster araound them,

[Burrt Badger]

I think that you will find the farce at Wanganui was created by the Clerk of the Course and the Wanganui Club, NOT the Steward, although the Steward should have been involved in the matter.

[Deano]

you have looked at 2 parts of the rule book, and matched up the rules to suit,

the super motard section is only relevent to super motord events where thier is a dirt section, it does not apply to the supermotard class at a road race event, apart from wanganui, these do not apply to any other road race meeting,



Unless the rules are specifically cross referenced between the classes, as it appears in GaZBur's post.

So the two exclusion clauses are relevant, IMO.

[idleidolidyll]

Thread's moving too fast and I near missed this wee gem.

Lets get it straight, I DIDN'T sign the petition. I too was of the opinion, "race whatever you've got that fits the bill".

But I fully understand why some people wanted the bikes out, from personal experiences.

Lets you and I hire Pukie, then we'll find a Pansy I'm sure.

sorry, i don't engage in penis comparisons on this website so you are welcome to claim "biggest dick" status

[idleidolidyll]

Yeah I did, dunno what the outcome was, I imagine he got fobbed off.

I dont disagree that the running of our beloved sport is being done in a halfarsed, hadhazard manner.

To go back to the original question then, yes, MNZ are gettin it wrong a lot. Wanna change that? Get in and do it the right way, bitching on here just wont cut the mustard.

This IS the right way to get change. If we all just keep our mouths shut and say fuck all except at specific MNZ meetings, we won't have a chance to air and listen to opinions that might sway our minds.

This is a racing forum on NZ's most well subscribed motorbike forum and therefore probably BETTER than waiting until some meeting where bugger all turn up to preach to the converted or preach to those who have decided never to listen and be given just 5 minutes to put your point across.

Yes, I've been to plenty of bike club meetings and chaired my share

[Drew]

This IS the right way to get change. If we all just keep our mouths shut and say fuck all except at specific MNZ meetings, we won't have a chance to air and listen to opinions that might sway our minds.

This is a racing forum on NZ's most well subscribed motorbike forum and therefore probably BETTER than waiting until some meeting where bugger all turn up to preach to the converted or preach to those who have decided never to listen and be given just 5 minutes to put your point across.

Yes, I've been to plenty of bike club meetings and chaired my share

Squeeky wheel approach doesn't work with beurocrats (sp), and you fuckin know it. Make all the noise in the world, knock yourself out...please.:done:

[idleidolidyll]

Squeeky wheel approach doesn't work with beurocrats (sp), and you fuckin know it. Make all the noise in the world, knock yourself out...please.:done:

you have that completely back arsewards; the squeaky wheels usually get oiled and the silent simpletons get fuck all

[Subike]

( walks in, looks at posts, shakes head, walks out .)
nothing has changed

[roadracingoldfart]

you have that completely back arsewards; the squeaky wheels usually get oiled and the silent simpletons get fuck all


Out of all the pages attached to this thread i have only seen less than half a dozen "sqeeky wheels "that can agree on the subject . Hmmm not a good general concensus is it ? :laugh:

Bugger!!! :bleh:

[Ivan]

can a mod please change the name to Has this Thread lost all Relevance

[Deano]

you have that completely back arsewards; the squeaky wheels usually get oiled and the silent simpletons get fuck all

Up until the the point where the squeaky wheel gets written off as a nutcase. I'm just speaking generally mind.

I know, I'm a bureaucrat.

[FROSTY]

Throwing an idea out there. So Jimmy bob turns up on kis KTM 660 with motard legal bars fitted.Passes scrutineering as a motard--all good.
Then he swaps the bars over to clipons ---sub 900mm bar height.
-What would stop that bike then being allowed in F3?

[scott411]

Throwing an idea out there. So Jimmy bob turns up on kis KTM 660 with motard legal bars fitted.Passes scrutineering as a motard--all good.
Then he swaps the bars over to clipons ---sub 900mm bar height.
-What would stop that bike then being allowed in F3?


nothing at all, great rule isn't it ;)

[scracha]

not if they made it one of the Formula classes. Let the old crap have their own classic class but don't let them prevent better modern bikes and home built special racing.

Fine...call it the "ye olde 400 series"...who gives a monkeys?
I'd more than happily race in a class full of Jap 400's with these restrictions. Hell, I could then go out, buy a 3 grand bike, spend another grand and be relatively competitive (well....the bike would be :mobile: ). Lots of other people would too as it would be about as cheap as bucket racing. Horsepower limits, minimum weight restrictions and suspension limitations...so simple and could be applied to lots of other non formula classes to keep costs down.

Obviously because Formula400 actually works in Australia (largest road racing class) then it could never be considered by Kiwi's. Here's a newsflash. Motorcycle Road Racing in New Zealand will never attract lots of "young talent" into the sport nor spectators as long as it remains an elitist sport where 25 grand or thereabouts is required to go racing competitively in a supposedly cheap class like "pro twins".

Cue lots of $hite about taking up tiddlywinks if I don't want to spend that much money.

[idleidolidyll]

Throwing an idea out there. So Jimmy bob turns up on kis KTM 660 with motard legal bars fitted.Passes scrutineering as a motard--all good.
Then he swaps the bars over to clipons ---sub 900mm bar height.
-What would stop that bike then being allowed in F3?

It'd likely fuck up the handling no end and the whiners would just change the rules again banning wide bars.

[idleidolidyll]

Fine...call it the "ye olde 400 series"...who gives a monkeys?
I'd more than happily race in a class full of Jap 400's with these restrictions. Hell, I could then go out, buy a 3 grand bike, spend another grand and be relatively competitive (well....the bike would be :mobile: ).

that's not what i've heard about F3. from what i've been told by those who know, the 'competitive' ones have 5x as much spent on engines and suspension as you've suggested.
However, if you COULD race a golden oldie 400 class limited to say $5000 max value, that'd be a bloody excellent class.
I recall that when buckets started they had a clever rule. It went something like this:
"If another rider offered you $1200 for your bike, you had to sell it"

Lots of other people would too as it would be about as cheap as bucket racing. Horsepower limits, minimum weight restrictions and suspension limitations...so simple and could be applied to lots of other non formula classes to keep costs down.

Obviously because Formula400 actually works in Australia (largest road racing class) then it could never be considered by Kiwi's. Here's a newsflash. Motorcycle Road Racing in New Zealand will never attract lots of "young talent" into the sport nor spectators as long as it remains an elitist sport where 25 grand or thereabouts is required to go racing competitively in a supposedly cheap class like "pro twins".

Cue lots of $hite about taking up tiddlywinks if I don't want to spend that much money.

you're on the right track i reckon

[CHOPPA]

I dont think motards should race with road bikes, i have just started racing road but have raced mx since i was 8 and have ridden a few motards and love all forms but in my experience i think its not a good idea that they run together i think more so for the safty of the road bikes as its so much easier to pull off a mx style block pass on a motard etc etc

Whats this about the sliding and feet off? are motard riders not supposed to take there feet off? or is that only for the formula bike? motard its a must for most peoples styles for ground clearance and as far as sliding i have never seen any guys i race with be penalised for it and they slide all over the show....

[CHOPPA]

you're on the right track i reckon

Its prob already been suggested but even if they made a new 'classic' class with bikes limited to say 95 model up to 600 sorta thing it would give the older bikes a bit of a new lease on life

[GaZBur]

Throwing an idea out there. So Jimmy bob turns up on kis KTM 660 with motard legal bars fitted.Passes scrutineering as a motard--all good.
Then he swaps the bars over to clipons ---sub 900mm bar height.
-What would stop that bike then being allowed in F3?

The rules would stop him. As he still complies with 34-2-3 and 34-5 he is still screwed from riding F3 until he alters his frame which then stops him entering Motards because he breaches 34-5 for the motards. Screwed twice over then.

OK I am no club official nor used to reading rules, only a simple Motard rider who would like to be allowed to run off the back of F3 to get some extra racing - but realise we do use sometimes radically different lines so could cause mayhem when let loose in F3.


F-3 rule extract...
B: Any machine complying with Rule No 34-2-3 and 34-5 is automatically excluded from
entering any Formula 3 event.
Any includes all events whether they are MNZ titled events or not, this is for safety
reasons.
It must not be amended or altered in anyway by the use of Supplementary Reuglations.

SuperMotard rule extract

34-2-3 Machines:
Must be of an original OEM off road origin. If a Super Motard model is made then a
purpose built off road bike must also be available from the manufacturer.

34-5 Frames
Must be of original OEM dirt bike origin without alteration to steering head and swinging
arm pivot.

[FROSTY]

Ahh but theres the beuty--the bike DOESNT comply with the other class. --with clipons it wont comply for Motards and with high bars doesnt fit F
in essence it becomes two bikes

[GaZBur]

Ahh but theres the beuty--the bike DOESNT comply with the other class. --with clipons it wont comply for Motards and with high bars doesnt fit F
in essence it becomes two bikes

Ummmmm OK. So he now can't ride motards coz of his bars, and cant ride F-3 due to the OEM dirt bike frame so what class is he going to race in?

Bugger isn't it - I remember in the 70's there was always one or two all in races - they were wild!

[FROSTY]

ya could argue that the frame is predominantly a road frame.
and the bar thing--you'd swap em between races. High for tards low for F3
--would highlight the issue

[CHOPPA]

ya could argue that the frame is predominantly a road frame.
and the bar thing--you'd swap em between races. High for tards low for F3
--would highlight the issue


Putting the clip ons on it would effectively change the bike to be safe to race with the road bikes as you cant ride it like a mx bike anymore your body position would be diff and it would feel wrong to take your feet off etc so it would prob be a good option for those who want to argue the point but its sorta shooting yourself in the foot cause you would almost def be slower if you (just) put clip ons on a motard...

[FROSTY]

Chopppa--Im hearing ya dude--but aint it a heap better to offer a solution --of sorts :devil2:

[Drew]

Bugger isn't it - I remember in the 70's there was always one or two all in races - they were wild!


At Mothers motocycle club race day, I entered the all in. What a fuckin dangerous way to race! I was on my 749r, and lapping Harlerys after the second lap. Ever had to take evasive action mid corner, because a harley bottomed out as you were comin up the long way, and literally skipped two feet sideways into your line?

All in races ARE just dangerous.