Blipping the throttle on downshifts?

[dipshit]

How many riders practice blipping throttle on downshifts? Especially under heavy braking?

[Oakie]

Is there a valid reason to do it?

[jrandom]

Only when there's girls listening.

[breakaway]

Only when there's girls listening.

<img src=lulz.jpg>

[98tls]

Ive a mate with a Harley thats sends morse code everytime he goes round a corner.:laugh:

[98tls]

How many riders practice blipping throttle on downshifts? Especially under heavy braking? This wouldnt have anything to do with you recently fitting yoshis per chance;)

[boomer]

oh look.. this ones not been done before..well for a while anyways!

Search '+Blip + throttle' returns 14 pages.... now we have 15 :lol:

[dipshit]

Ive a mate with a Harley thats sends morse code everytime he goes round a corner

He's just probably *trying* to find the next cog down.



This wouldnt have anything to do with you recently fitting yoshis per chance;)

Noooooo...... :o

[CookMySock]

How many riders practice blipping throttle on downshifts? Especially under heavy braking?

Essential and necessary.

DB

[Trudes]

I haven't figured out how to do it properly while braking because that hand is already in use, but since having the new exhausts on my bike I do, and I love doing it on the Gixxer, especially when the hubby is sitting behind me, just to show him just how obnoxious his bike sounds when you travel behind it.:rolleyes: Why do I do it? Because I was told I should get in the habit so as not to lock up the rear by getting the engine revs up in anticipation for the gear shift..... but mainly cause it sounds cool!!:cool:

[dipshit]

Is there a valid reason to do it?

There is some benefit.

I am interested to see what unbiased poll results we get for a bit, before getting into too much discussion.

[jrandom]

mainly cause it sounds cool!!

:rockon:<tencharacters>

[98tls]

There is some benefit.

I am interested to see what unbiased poll results we get for a bit, before getting into too much discussion. :corn:This oughta be good.A dipshit with a just fitted yosh system explaining this away;)releasing back pressure maybe:beer:

[koba]

I used to drive a mates Vauxhall Chevette VERY HARD alot as sober driver and in autocross and the like.
It got me pretty tuned into the downshift blip, especialy with a carload of drunk mates to give me shit every time I muzzed it up.
Sad thing was you HAD to do it after it spun a bearing in the first box and we put another free one in.
Helps alot when driving old cars with worn sycnros. (gearboxybits)
On a bike I find It helps smooth riding.

[sAsLEX]

Ive a mate with a Harley thats sends morse code everytime he goes round a corner.:laugh:

You have to double clutch tractor gearboxes :shit:

[cruza]

Keeps downshifts smoother/quicker, reduces tyre lock up . No syncos in the gearbox like on cars. same reason truckies blip thottle on down shifts in roadranger gearboxs

[zadok]

Always for smoother changes, plus clutchless upshifts.

[Ixion]

I don't think it is possible to downchange at any sort of speed on a Briddish box. And if it were the primary chain would not long survive (well, even less long than they did, which wasn't long)

I doubt that I could do it, it would feel like rape of the poor little cogs.

[homer]

I used to drive a mates Vauxhall Chevette VERY HARD alot as sober driver and in autocross and the like.
It got me pretty tuned into the downshift blip, especialy with a carload of drunk mates to give me shit every time I muzzed it up.
Sad thing was you HAD to do it after it spun a bearing in the first box and we put another free one in.
Helps alot when driving old cars with worn sycnros. (gearboxybits)
On a bike I find It helps smooth riding.

Did you ever think the synchro was worn ,because people dont do it

[johan]

I don't have any experience of a slipper clutch, but after watching the GP onboard videos, the down shifts are so quick there's no time for blipping, from what I can see. I guess the slippers smooths it out for them?

I try to blip when down shifting. It takes a lot of finesse to do it with a constant pressure on the front brake, I'm still practising it.

[homer]

its primarily goal " to blip " is so that theres less stress on the drive train at the gear change .

if you just throttle off and change down your stressing the drive system as theres just nothing then all of a sudden theres a lot of work .

its making the power or pressures more constant

[homer]

Keeps downshifts smoother/quicker, reduces tyre lock up . No syncos in the gearbox like on cars. same reason truckies blip thottle on down shifts in roadranger gearboxs

you have to blip in them
more of a big rev up almost , but thats because when you shift gear the transmission is slowing also as the engine does . you wont get a gear if you dont blip

some trucks have a clutch break
when you clutch all the way in it stops the trans turning .
very hard to get a gear again then .

[xgnr]

Yeah like them above... reducing the excess stress of a chunk down-shift and a possible lockup is my main focus... rightly or wrongly. maybe bad habits learned?

When I was driving trucks in the army thats wot they taught us (RL Bedfords mind you circa 60's) hardly a blip... more of a roar...crunch

Cheers

Stu

[Ripperjon]

I was one of the ones that voted for "don't know what you mean"

Didn't realise it meant doubling the clutch.

So, if you blip whilst braking, would you be using your index and middle on the lever and blipping with your thumb and third finger?

I think i've started doing it without realising it was a good technique whilst engine braking just cos it feels way smoother and sounds less painful for the bike.

[Spyke]

I haven't figured out how to do it properly while braking because that hand is already in use.

LMAO i was racing my bucket and coming into the first corner after the strait blipping the throttle and braking, my hand got stuck accelerating and i went strait into the tires. lesson learnt, don't stuff up blipping lol

[Ocean1]

Didn't realise it meant doubling the clutch.


It doesn't. Double clutching means just that, on a car/truck box you clutch and shift to neutral, release clutch and jump on it again whilst blipping the throttle to match revs.

Bit redundant on sequential shifting sickle boxes...


So, if you blip whilst braking, would you be using your index and middle on the lever and blipping with your thumb and third finger?

Sort of, I think I just roll my palm down and change, trying to keep the brake pressure even.

[Motu]

I've never considered not do it.It's just a matter of having a feel for the gearbox....having a mechanical conscience.Although sometimes I can go down a gear or two...or up,on the DT230 without bothering with blipping,or using the clutch for that matter - it doesn't matter so much with a 2 stroke.

[98tls]

Amongst other things did the SV lose the rather primitive (although works) slipper clutch the TL had?

[toebug]

Its very helpful on an older bike whose clucth is not so freash nor the gearbox!

[Subike]

didnt even even think it was a concern not to do it, or to do it
done it for years, stops rear wheel lock up on hard decelleration and put less pressure on the whole drive system.Braking not a problem either, guess it becomes a learnt skill the more you do it,
not alwys possible on some tight sections of road where there just is not the time and you are going quick, but then each to their own.
Pluss I love the back fire out the harris...sometimes flames , but thats the little boy in me playing :woohoo:

[homer]

Yeah like them above... reducing the excess stress of a chunk down-shift and a possible lockup is my main focus... rightly or wrongly. maybe bad habits learned?

When I was driving trucks in the army thats wot they taught us (RL Bedfords mind you circa 60's) hardly a blip... more of a roar...crunch

Cheers

Stu

best way to learn any gear box A

[homer]

I was one of the ones that voted for "don't know what you mean"

Didn't realise it meant doubling the clutch.

So, if you blip whilst braking, would you be using your index and middle on the lever and blipping with your thumb and third finger?

I think i've started doing it without realising it was a good technique whilst engine braking just cos it feels way smoother and sounds less painful for the bike.

yes if it works
I just use the front break and palm the throttle to blip .
you may even find if you dont pull the clutch the whole way in the changes are so smooth you dont even know if it went in or not ...half clutch

[Damantis]

Isn't blipping just about raising your revs as u change down when decelerating quickly, especially under brakes? and helping to avoid a rear lock-up if you're slowiing down urgently? Am only a newbie but I reckon engine braking and the right gear plus acceleration out of the corner is far safer than flying in quick as u can and trying to do 3 things at once... better left for the racetrack in my opinion

[dipshit]

I've never considered not do it..

Me too. I must have started doing it when I first started riding years ago. Even usually heel and toe when driving manual cars as well.

However watching lots of videos on youtube and suchlike of people riding their bikes... it is quite surprising the number of riders you see not blipping on downshifts. i.e...

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/5T1rktWwOuE&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/5T1rktWwOuE&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

I see lots of videos like this! Commonly they are being cautious changing down early before corners and never changing down mid corner, even if it means being in the wrong gear and only changing down when coming out on the gas again.

Simply learning to change down smoothly by blipping the throttle would greatly improve their bike handling skills and allow them to change down later and deeper into the corner.

Was wondering how many people around here do or don't blip?

[homer]

yes your very right
the bliping you should do anyways before a corner , before you pass
its just natural after a while
think of it this way
you change down a gear at say 100 km
you clutch and the revs drop to idle you then change down and let the clutch out .
now youve gone from say as an idea 6000 rpm to about 2000 and changing down now you want it to rev up to about 8000 all in an instance .

its quite hard on internal parts

[McJim]

Don' really need to use the brakes if I'm downshifting. The engine braking kicks me in the stones pretty hard as it is. Blipping just makes the next gear mesh a little more smoothly than it would otherwise.

[dipshit]

So, if you blip whilst braking, would you be using your index and middle on the lever and blipping with your thumb and third finger?

The palm of your hand and thumb can work the throttle while your fingers work the brake lever.



I think i've started doing it without realising it was a good technique whilst engine braking just cos it feels way smoother and sounds less painful for the bike.

That's a good way to learn it and get a feel for it. Once you have mastered it when not using the brakes, you can progress to doing it during braking.

Here's a good read here...
www.sportrider.com/ride/RSS/146_0402_shift_blip_throttle/index.html

[dipshit]

Amongst other things did the SV lose the rather primitive (although works) slipper clutch the TL had?

Nah, the SV still has the basic slipper clutch.

[98tls]

Nah, the SV still has the basic slipper clutch. Casings aside i wonder if the GSXR one would substitute?

[dipshit]

Isn't blipping just about raising your revs as u change down when decelerating quickly, especially under brakes? and helping to avoid a rear lock-up if you're slowiing down urgently? Am only a newbie but I reckon engine braking and the right gear plus acceleration out of the corner is far safer than flying in quick as u can and trying to do 3 things at once... better left for the racetrack in my opinion

True. But there are still plenty of times in street riding where you want to be a smooth as possible. Bumpy wet roads for example. Or some roads are that winding that it is unavoidable to not change down when banked over a bit.

[trumpy]

Sugilite, I have seen you go around Taupo Track very fast indeed and not once heard you blip the throttle...please explain?

My business partner is an ex national Single Seater champion and he still teaches advanced driving....he never blips the throttle on change down, just changes very late and very quickly instead. I'm am an old heel toe man and it took me two seasons of racing to emulate his technique, but it did get me a trophy or two in the end (on four wheels that is).
On my bike I often blip the throttle but only because I like the sound of my muffler (I'm a 55 year old hoon wannabe!) but often I just change down later and block change if I have to go down several gears.
Probably not the advised (or cool) technique for the faster boys (and girls), but then I'm old and slow so it hardly matters.

[Chrislost]

I see lots of videos like this! Commonly they are being cautious changing down early before corners and never changing down mid corner, even if it means being in the wrong gear for the corner and only changing down when coming out on the gas again.

Was wondering how many people around here do or don't blip?
Judging by your "Chicken Strips" or BGB(Big Girls Blouse) lines you know a thing or two about cornering:spanking:
That vid looks like a training day...
See how he is cruzing around carefully and hitting those green Xs on the track?
The guy isnt fanging so why would he care what gear he is in?

[onearmedbandit]

So, if you blip whilst braking, would you be using your index and middle on the lever and blipping with your thumb and third finger?



Well for me, my thumb is operating the clutch, two fingers are operating the front brake, and my two other fingers and palm are blipping the throttle. Certainly keeps your mind on the job. Although I can now blip and downshift without the clutch, so that eases things up a bit.

[DingoZ]

Keeps downshifts smoother/quicker, reduces tyre lock up . No syncos in the gearbox like on cars. same reason truckies blip thottle on down shifts in roadranger gearboxs

Used to it from driving trucks. And was also told to do it on a bike, to help prevent the rear from locking up, when downshifting.

[jrandom]

... it is unavoidable to not change down when banked over a bit.

<img src="http://i30.tinypic.com/2h3a6bp.jpg"/>

At this point, I would just like to say:

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Thank you. As you were.

:clap:

[mister.koz]

I'm one of the 4% or so that said eh?

Just to make myself a real noob here, blipping is???

I am guessing its giving the engine some gas as to sync with the gearbox on a down-change??

A few of my 4 wheeled friends reckon that sort of thing is excellent in cars for keeping unnecessary load off the clutches and drive-train

[dipshit]

At this point, I would just like to say:

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Thank you. As you were.

:clap:

So? Rather that than this...

[dipshit]

I am guessing its giving the engine some gas as to sync with the gearbox on a down-change??


It's matching engine rpm to what it is soon to be with the newly selected gear and rear wheel road speed.

http://www.sportrider.com/ride/RSS/146_0402_shift_blip_throttle/index.html

[YellowDog]

It's a common sense thing. I do it on cars as well as bikes.

[onearmedbandit]

At this point, I would just like to say:

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Thank you. As you were.

:clap:


I take it that these tyres were not used in the making of this story?



And you should ask a friend of mine on a 998 with Öhlins and everything why he has a very hard time keeping up in the tight twisty stuff? A "lowly" SV can't be that shit then?

[koba]

Isn't blipping just about raising your revs as u change down when decelerating quickly, especially under brakes? and helping to avoid a rear lock-up if you're slowiing down urgently? Am only a newbie but I reckon engine braking and the right gear plus acceleration out of the corner is far safer than flying in quick as u can and trying to do 3 things at once... better left for the racetrack in my opinion

I agree, while learning it is better to simplify things but as riding becomes more natural and some tasks are being peformed more, or less, subconscienssklssa - without thinking - you will find it easier to devote a bit of concentration towards learning to blip.
I always found using the handbrake in autocross (Cars) to be too much for my brain, so I left it "on the list" to learn later, after geting smoother and faster from less going on I havn't found the need for the handbrake yet tho...

[jrandom]

So? Rather that than this...

You really think that that crash happened because someone used all their bike's available lean angle?

:laugh:

You just don't ride very well, dipshit, end of story. Don't pretend you're keeping something in reserve - if you've never scrubbed the edge of your tyres, you don't have a reserve.

Have you considered doing one or two trackdays? They won't magically turn you into a racer, but you'll at least learn how to use your bike's handling capabilities, and maybe your newfound skill will actually make you safer thereafter!

:niceone:

Come to think of it, the fact that you haven't learned to go around corners properly kinda explains your bitterness toward anyone who has enough bike control to do wheelies.

The trick is, dude, to exercise some humility and realise that you need to learn to ride your bike before you can start spouting off to others about how they should ride theirs.

Congratulations on getting a noisy exhaust and discovering the joys of throttle-blipping, though. It's always nice to see new riders having fun!

[Trudes]

Talking of chicken strips...... I had a couple of "fast" guys checking mine out the other day, and I said something about how shameful they were, and I was told I should have them as it means I'm leaning off the bike and not leaning the bike, also I have very little ground clearance a) it is a Hornet and b) it's been lowered, so I have big chicken strips but am also scraping the pegs everywhere...... just saying, but I'll :shutup: now.

[dipshit]

I take it that these tyres were not used in the making of this story?

Why not? Good gearchange technique is always useful and has nothing to do with cornering speeds.

[dipshit]

You really think that that crash happened because someone used all their bike's available lean angle?


I wonder how many riders have killed themselves while solely trying to get rid of their chicken strips, just to keep the chicken strip police happy? Peer pressure is a killer on motorcycles if someone is stupid enough to get sucked in by it.





Have you considered doing one or two trackdays? They won't magically turn you into a racer, but you'll at least learn how to use your bike's handling capabilities, and maybe your newfound skill will actually make you safer thereafter!

I agree with you here. Have had my time on the tracks in the past. Wasn't just trackdays either. Used to compete in club racing, south island winter series and local street races and so on. Been thinking of doing some trackdays or something again soon to brush up a bit.

A downside for some people though, is that it can go to their heads and have them thinking they are "just it" and end up overconfident and riding much too fast on the roads.




The trick is, dude, to exercise some humility and realise that you need to learn to ride your bike before you can start spouting off to others about how they should ride theirs.

And just because you got your knee down at a trackday once and you like to wheelie your bike... doesn't automatically turn you into the best street rider to ever walk to face of the earth either.




Congratulations on getting a noisy exhaust and discovering the joys of throttle-blipping, though. It's always nice to see new riders having fun!

Unlike you, I ain't doing it just to sound cool. Had been doing it from when I first started riding. I couldn't imagine not riding this way.

[Badjelly]

You have to double clutch tractor gearboxes :shit:
I just stop the tractor to change gear. :mellow:

[Badjelly]

Talking of chicken strips...... I had a couple of "fast" guys checking mine out the other day, and I said something about how shameful they were, and I was told I should have them as it means I'm leaning off the bike and not leaning the bike

That's it! I must memorise this: "I have chicken strips because I'm leaning off the bike. I have chicken strips because I'm leaning off the bike. I have chicken strips because I'm leaning off the bike." Yeah, I think I've got that down pat.

[jrandom]

I wonder how many riders have killed themselves while solely trying to get rid of their chicken strips...

They should have just borrowed YamahaR64Life's belt sander!

:laugh:


Peer pressure is a killer on motorcycles if someone is stupid enough to get sucked in by it.

Nowt at all wrong with chicken strips, unless the wearer thereof likes to prance around playing the riding tutor. Then they tend to make him look a bit silly.

As Mrs Kendog says, some bikes (like her lowered Hornet) just don't have the geometry to scrub the edge of their tyres. ER6s and SV650s are like that too, I believe.

Although I should probably point out that no man would ever have got such a supportive and comforting response to his chicken strips in public... motorcycling is such a sexist activity.

:no:


... just because you got your knee down at a trackday once and you like to wheelie your bike... doesn't automatically turn you into the best street rider to ever walk to face of the earth either.

How many times must I repeat to you that I'm quite a n00b? Heck, I haven't even had my full bike licence for a year yet. I wouldn't have been so chuffed about getting my knee down at that trackday unless that was the case, would I?

I make no claims to knowing shit about riding. I certainly don't try to butt in and tell others what they should be doing on their bikes (unless they're sanctimonious pricks who need to be taken down a peg, of course).


Unlike you, I ain't doing it just to sound cool.

So putting this thread up shortly after you got Yoshis on the SV was entirely coincidental?

Tee hee.

[johan]

Going around the Taupo track in fast pace and keeping your chicken is harder than going fast and loosing it eh. :confused:

Sound like a good Chinese takeaway:
Dip your chicken in a blip throttle sauce?

[ManDownUnder]

And just because you got your knee down at a trackday once and you like to wheelie your bike... doesn't automatically turn you into the best street rider to ever walk to face of the earth either.

Thank Christ for that... I've never heard him say he was. Far from it in fact.

JR's brilliant at taking the piss, but if you go back to re-read a lot of what he says I bet you'll find he's one of the first to put his hand up when he's wrong on anything, and actually learn the lesson. All too few in here seem to do that, and all he is asking you to do is follow his lead.

edit... see? (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?p=1489926#post1489926)

[Badjelly]

Blipping just makes the next gear mesh a little more smoothly than it would otherwise.

It does seem to, but it's a bit of a mystery why. What I'm saying is this: it's easy to see how blipping the throttle lets you re-engage the clutch quickly without extra load on the drive system and braking of the bike, but it also seems to improve the actual gearchange. How does that work when you aren't double clutching (ie. re-engaging the clutch while the gearbox is in neutral)? I've always assumed that there's enough clutch drag with a wet clutch to spin up the input gear shaft as the box goes through neutral, thereby improving engagement of the next gear. But this wouldn't work with a dry clutch. What do ya all reckon?

[onearmedbandit]

Why not? Good gearchange technique is always useful and has nothing to do with cornering speeds.

You miss the point entirely of my little piss-take, which I think you intended to do anyway. You said, and I quote, "And you should ask a friend of mine on a 998 with Öhlins and everything why he has a very hard time keeping up in the tight twisty stuff? A "lowly" SV can't be that shit then?". If those tyres were used that day, then your claim falls flat on it's arse. Simple. Any way, I digress, back to the topic at hand...

[enigma51]

I find using sand paper helps with chicken strips and for knee sliders a grinder works the best

For the bliping ?????? what the fuck is that

[ManDownUnder]

It does seem to, but it's a bit of a mystery why. What I'm saying is this: it's easy to see how blipping the throttle lets you re-engage the clutch quickly without extra load on the drive system and braking of the bike, but it also seems to improve the actual gearchange. How does that work when you aren't double clutching (ie. re-engaging the clutch while the gearbox is in neutral)? I've always assumed that there's enough clutch drag with a wet clutch to spin up the input gear shaft as the box goes through neutral, thereby improving engagement of the next gear. But this wouldn't work with a dry clutch. What do ya all reckon?

When changing down the engine will be sped up when the clutch is engaged.

To speed the engine up it needs an input of energy and that's going to either comes from:
1) Momentum. Change down but don't blip the throttle, let the clutch out and you'll feel "drag" on the bike while the engine spins up. Do this on a big engine, or an engine with high torque and it'll possibly cause a loss of traction on the back wheel due to so much load being placed on the back wheel by the engine (i.e. it wants to go from 3,000 rpm in the higher gear... to 5,000rpm in the lower gear, and if you just pop the clutch out it the rear wheel has to supply all that energy in the space of 1/10th of a second).

Chain goes tight, possible loss of traction on the rear wheel and a decent "jolt" to the rider

2) Fuel (throttle blip). Throttle spins the engine up and when the clutch is engaged the rear wheel has less (or ideally no) load on it... you lose no momentum, no reduction in traction and no discomfort to the rider


Small engines (let's say a 150, or most two strokes) don't have enough internal masss and/or compression to really worry about it, but it's a handy tool to have in your kit bag to use as appropriate. It's awkward at first but as with most things you'll be doing it totally subconsciously after a while.

[enigma51]

Chain goes tight, possible loss of traction on the rear wheel and a decent "jolt" to the rider)


Tell me about it I though you just sort of go slower into the corner so it does not do that

[jrandom]

If those tyres were used that day, then your claim falls flat on it's arse. Simple.

Actually, not necessarily; maybe he just happens to know someone who owns a 998 and is a really really crap rider.

One imagines them out together, pristine knee sliders sparkling in the sunlight, racing each other through corners, each trying to be the first to one day (gasp) exceed the signposted recommended speed...

:hug:

[ManDownUnder]

Tell me about it I though you just sort of go slower into the corner so it does not do that

Ideally you should be managing your engine/throttle settings to maintain your road speed, not changing your road speed to manage your engine (if that makes sense?)

If this is not a pisstake, I'd suggest you simply change down before you enter the corner if you're not comfortable doing it part way through, keep the revs in a suitable range, power out of the corner and change up again when you're good to go.

You'll find with practice it's entirely possible (in fact 2nd nature) to be braking on the front, blipping and changing down all at once, through anything except the hairiest of corners.

We all get the entry speed/gear wrong from time to time, and it's good to be able to easily correct it as you go.

[Badjelly]

...

You're missing my point, ManDownUnder. I agree entirely about the effect blipping the throttle (aka synchronising engine speed) has when you re-engage the clutch, but it's my impression that it also improves the actual gearchange (ie disengaging one gear & engaging the next).

[jrandom]

Ideally you should be managing your engine/throttle settings to maintain your road speed, not changing your road speed to manage your engine (if that makes sense?)

Bahahahaha!

You haven't ridden with Enigma, have you... as far as I can tell, in his opinion, ideally he should be managing his engine/throttle settings to leave the maximum amount of black crayon marks all the way through the corner with his rear tyre.

:laugh:

[ManDownUnder]

You're missing my point, ManDownUnder. I agree entirely about the effect blipping the throttle (aka synchronising engine speed) has when you re-engage the clutch, but it's my impression that it also improves the actual gearchange (ie disengaging one gear & engaging the next).

Aaaa sorry and ok. That's beyond my expertise, something to do with the synchromesh in the gearbox etc, but I'd be spouting pure fiction if I tried to answer it.


Bahahahaha!

You haven't ridden with Enigma, have you... as far as I can tell, in his opinion, ideally he should be managing his engine/throttle settings to leave the maximum amount of black crayon marks all the way through the corner with his rear tyre.

:laugh:

LOL points taken. As an observation - ever noticed how many of them end up pointing at damaged yet inanimate objects near the road? Rocks, trees, strainer posts... that sort of thing?

I wonder if it's co-incidence?

[jrandom]

As an observation - ever noticed how many of them end up pointing at damaged yet inanimate objects near the road?

Mm, yes. I have fond memories of being in the pit lane loos at Taupo track and hearing the screeching chittering of a rear tyre in agony, wandering out and seeing Enigma gingerly turning his bike around on the grass at the end of the hairpin...

;)

[ManDownUnder]

Mm, yes. I have fond memories of being in the pit lane loos at Taupo track and hearing the screeching chittering of a rear tyre in agony, wandering out and seeing Enigma gingerly turning his bike around on the grass at the end of the hairpin...

;)

...so applying KB rationale, that means the grass was badly designed, or possibly the hairpin?

[dipshit]

Actually, not necessarily; maybe he just happens to know someone who owns a 998 and is a really really crap rider.

One imagines them out together, pristine knee sliders sparkling in the sunlight, racing each other through corners, each trying to be the first to one day (gasp) exceed the signposted recommended speed...


Bingo...!!

PS.. I don't wear knee sliders for road riding.. :tugger:

[Usarka]

Mm, yes. I have fond memories of being in the pit lane loos at Taupo track and hearing the screeching chittering of a rear tyre in agony, wandering out and seeing Enigma gingerly turning his bike around on the grass at the end of the hairpin...

;)

Then rinsing and repeating the following lap. :cool:

[dipshit]

So putting this thread up shortly after you got Yoshis on the SV was entirely coincidental?


Yes...!! :brick:

[onearmedbandit]

Bingo...!!

I don't care whether riders have chicken strips or not, each of us rides differently and for different reasons. However I do expect when someone is making claims about their bikes handling in comparison to another that they are both pushing their bikes abilities, so actually working the suspension/chassis etc. Seeing strips like that on both of your bikes, do you still feel that your initial claim in the thread I linked the quote from carries any water? Or do you guys actually push the bikes hard on the road, leaving no performance envelope unpushed, and just both have new tyres on your steeds? Honest question. It's like saying that your CBR250 is quicker in a straight line than an R1, but we both don't use full throttle.

[dipshit]

How many times must I repeat to you that I'm quite a n00b? Heck, I haven't even had my full bike licence for a year yet. I wouldn't have been so chuffed about getting my knee down at that trackday unless that was the case, would I?

Well then Mr noob who hasn't had their full licence for a year yet... Good street riding skills isn't defined by how far you lean over in corners or how long a wheelie you can pull.

The only thing that matters is that you get to where you are going without throwing your bike down the road. Everything else is BS.

[Usarka]

Well then Mr noob who hasn't had their full licence for a year yet... Good street riding skills isn't defined by how far you lean over in corners or how long a wheelie you can pull.

The only thing that matters is that you get to where you are going without throwing your bike down the road. Everything else is BS.

So there is absolutely no street riding skill difference between riders who consistently get to their destination intact?

[dipshit]

do you still feel that your initial claim in the thread I linked the quote from carries any water? Or do you guys actually push the bikes hard on the road, leaving no performance envelope unpushed,

Street riding in the real world does not involve pushing the performance envelope of large modern road bikes that much. Therefore the difference between a cheap as chips SV or a Öhlins equipped Ducati on public roads isn't as great as the specifications or race track use would suggest.

Traffic, police, unknown road conditions around the next corner kick in way before the limits of the bikes do.

[dipshit]

So there is absolutely no street riding skill difference between riders who consistently get to their destination intact?

Well that is the only one that matters. No one is standing there waiting for you with a chequered flag and stopwatch, so therefore how quickly you get to where you are going doesn't count. Keeping yourself and your bike (and hopefully your licence) in one piece so you can do it again tomorrow, does.

[007XX]

I got a Vtwin...of course I bloody do it!!! :rolleyes:

It ain't no fun otherwise...:D

PS: In tunnels it's especially luuuurrrvely!! :love:

[Badjelly]

I got a Vtwin...of course I bloody do it!!! :rolleyes:

Yes, but my cylinder is bigger than yours!

[Usarka]

Well that is the only one that matters. No one is standing there waiting for you with a chequered flag and stopwatch, so therefore how quickly you get to where you are going doesn't count. Keeping yourself and your bike (and hopefully your licence) in one piece so you can do it again tomorrow, does.
Reacting to emergencies often calls on using skills above the competency required for commuting and cruising at legal speeds.

Knowing how far you can lean for example can be the difference between life and death if things go pear shaped. (humans do make mistakes, the big fuck ups are usually a series of mistakes)

Sure a lot of this should be learned at trackdays or advanced tuition, but most riders don't have access to this, or can't afford, or feel intimidated because they ride a 1980's commuter.

Regardless, skills required to keep it upright when things do go wrong are very important for street riding (imho).

[007XX]

Yes, but my cylinder is bigger than yours!

mebbe...but I know how to use mine to better effect! and that's a fact...:nya: :shake:

[Usarka]

Yes, but my cylinder is bigger than yours!


mebbe...but I know how to use mine to better effect! and that's a fact...:nya: :shake:

cylinders dont want to be too big anyway lest theres leakage around the piston.......

[onearmedbandit]

Street riding in the real world does not involve pushing the performance envelope of large modern road bikes that much. Therefore the difference between a cheap as chips SV or a Öhlins equipped Ducati on public roads isn't as great as the specifications or race track use would suggest.

Traffic, police, unknown road conditions around the next corner kick in way before the limits of the bikes do.

Oh I see. Would've been nice if you had included that disclaimer in your original claim that your mate on his 998 struggled to keep up with your thou. But then your statement wouldn't have had as much effect would it? What you should have really said was 'My friend on his 998 is a lot more cautious then me so struggles to keep up in the twisties, note however this does not mean that the SV is a better handling bike than an Ohlins equipped 998'.

Nah, doesn't have the same effect does it.

[007XX]

cylinders dont want to be too big anyway lest theres leakage around the piston.......

Right size piston + right timing + just right amount of oil = perfection in Doof Doof :Punk::scooter:

Ok, enough now...It makes me want to go for a ride :innocent:

[ManDownUnder]

Well then Mr noob who hasn't had their full licence for a year yet...

Oh my God I was wrong - you are the man! You tell 'im!

[Ocean1]

You're missing my point, ManDownUnder. I agree entirely about the effect blipping the throttle (aka synchronising engine speed) has when you re-engage the clutch, but it's my impression that it also improves the actual gearchange (ie disengaging one gear & engaging the next).

It does, it's not just the crank that you're syncronising revs with re the back wheel, it's the complete drivetrain. The most relevant bit of which is the dogs on the side of the "target" gear which ideally need to be spinning at the same revs as the gates they're about to engage with.

The "CLUNK" you hear when you don't match revs is exactly that, the dogs taking a hammering when they engage. That, and the shifter drum, which is under far more load.

[Warr]

It does, it's not just the crank that you're syncronising revs with re the back wheel, it's the complete drivetrain. The most relevant bit of which is the dogs on the side of the "target" gear which ideally need to be spinning at the same revs as the gates they're about to engage with.

The "CLUNK" you hear when you don't match revs is exactly that, the dogs taking a hammering when they engage. That, and the shifter drum, which is under far more load.
Completely agree with you Ocean1.
If you want to shorten the life of the drive-train just carry on hammering through the changes.
You will eventually wonder why you have trouble with certain gears.
Its all the rounded edges on the gear dogs and the bent selector forks paying you back!
I always up the revs when changing down just as I do the other when changing up.

[Badjelly]

It does, it's not just the crank that you're syncronising revs with re the back wheel, it's the complete drivetrain. The most relevant bit of which is the dogs on the side of the "target" gear which ideally need to be spinning at the same revs as the gates they're about to engage with.

The "CLUNK" you hear when you don't match revs is exactly that, the dogs taking a hammering when they engage. That, and the shifter drum, which is under far more load.

So, bearing in mind that the clutch is disengaged when you blip the throttle (n'est ce pas?) do you agree that clutch drag is required to communicate the "blip" to the drive train?

[Warr]

So, bearing in mind that the clutch is disengaged when you blip the throttle (n'est ce pas?) do you agree that clutch drag is required to communicate the "blip" to the drive train?
A disengaged clutch will still follow the input drive changing RPM when the cogs do disengage. Remember there is a neutral between every gear.
So it is definitely possible to make smooth changes with a bit of practice :)

[Ocean1]

So, bearing in mind that the clutch is disengaged when you blip the throttle (n'est ce pas?) do you agree that clutch drag is required to communicate the "blip" to the drive train?

Yes. I dont't know how a bike would behave if the clutch had zero drag, not aware of any clutch designs that would have none, be interesting...

[Badjelly]

Yes. I dont't know how a bike would behave if the clutch had zero drag, not aware of any clutch designs that would have none, be interesting...

I've found that car clutches have very little drag (with the exception of my current Mazda Familia, but my mechanic told me the clutch on that car was on its last legs five years ago). Once you've disengaged the clutch, revving the engine does not affect the gearbox at all, or such is my impression.

All the bikes I've ridden (all of them Japanese) have had perceptible clutch drag. Eg, they jolt forward slightly when you put them in gear. I'd assumed this was a result of the clutch running in an oil bath (ie a wet clutch). Ducatis have dry clutches, don't they? Do they have as much drag as Jap bikes?

[jrandom]

All the bikes I've ridden (all of them Japanese) have had perceptible clutch drag.

Yes; when I put Betty up on the centerstand with the gearbox in neutral, start the engine running, pull the clutch in and whack her into first while holding the clutch in, the rear wheel kicks around as the gear engages and spins down for a few seconds before coming to a stop again.

I'd love to hear about precisely how all of that works with a sequential gearbox and a clutch, and the relevant design considerations for a motorcycle's transmission.

[Ocean1]

I've found that car clutches have very little drag (with the exception of my current Mazda Familia, but my mechanic told me the clutch on that car was on its last legs five years ago). Once you've disengaged the clutch, revving the engine does not affect the gearbox at all, or such is my impression.

All the bikes I've ridden (all of them Japanese) have had perceptible clutch drag. Eg, they jolt forward slightly when you put them in gear. I'd assumed this was a result of the clutch running in an oil bath (ie a wet clutch). Ducatis have dry clutches, don't they? Do they have as much drag as Jap bikes?

Any clutch running in oil needs shitloads more surface area than a dry one. When engaged the spring pressure forces oil from between the faces, so while there's some lubrication going on the plates aren't actually floating on an oil film. When you disengage the clutch in neutral there's not much load forcing the inner and outer plates to part company, it's only when you kick it into gear that significant load forces them to "unstick".

If you think Japanese bike clutches are "sticky" you need to ride some of the older European stuff. You can pick it at the lights, the stiff kick off the mark with the left foot before selecting gear, the desperate fumbling for neutral before coming to a complete stop. Most Jap transmissions are pure mech-art by comparison, wonders of modern engineering.

As for dry clutches? Duno, never had one, must listen carefully to the next new Ducatti I encounter to see if the same solid clunk is there. Might have trouble hearing it over the rattle though...

[dipshit]

And for those that doesn't know what it is... this is what it sounds like...


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[PrincessBandit]

Essential and necessary.

DB

I do it most of the time; always on the ginny, usually on the bandit.

[Motu]

1) Momentum. Change down but don't blip the throttle, let the clutch out and you'll feel "drag" on the bike while the engine spins up. Do this on a big engine, or an engine with high torque and it'll possibly cause a loss of traction on the back wheel due to so much load being placed on the back wheel by the engine (i.e. it wants to go from 3,000 rpm in the higher gear... to 5,000rpm in the lower gear, and if you just pop the clutch out it the rear wheel has to supply all that energy in the space of 1/10th of a second).


More the effect of flywheel weight than engine size....it's just a coincidence that bigger engines have more rotating mass.Try a big single....and then compare to an even bigger multi - the single has more flywheel effect and so has much more pronounced "Oh fuck,I got that wrong!'' Works in the opposite direction too - try thrashing an old Britsh single through the gears,say a B31....each up change gives you a huge kick in the back from the flywheel energy,it has more stored power than the engine is actually putting out.

[ManDownUnder]

More the effect of flywheel weight than engine size....

Worth knowing - cheers

[HenryDorsetCase]

do people who have slipper clutches need to do this? I know MotoGP people have slipper clutches AND their electronics either blip the throttle or up the idle speed so the rear wheel doesnt hop.

I do it because it sounds cool, and chicks dig it.

[madandy]

I do it out of simple mechanical sympathy. Trucks, tractors (with a double de-clutch), bikes, cars - all things with a gear box - even an auto trans if done right ;)
With my open Yoshi it also sounds really cool.

[HornetBoy]

I blip the throttle cause that was how i was told to do it when i first started riding .

plus it sounds good :niceone:

[rufusdion]

.............. and blipping just sounds cool :niceone:

[onearmedbandit]

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And this rider is blipping on the downshift with no clutch. And to think they said it couldn't be done...

[trumpy]

And this rider is blipping on the downshift with no clutch. And to think they said it couldn't be done...

Yep, certainly can be done. Even I, with my rather "basic" riding ability, do it on a regular basis.
I my race car, which had a dog box, I never used the clutch once off the start line and since I used to left foot brake quite often it was a necessary skill. Just a matter of timing....although not really one you wanted to get wrong.....:Oops:

[Mikkel]

And this rider is blipping on the downshift with no clutch. And to think they said it couldn't be done...

So who's the rider? The track is obviously Ruapuna...

I can't see how you would manage clutchless downshifting without blipping the throttle. It would be very jerky at least.

[Luckylegs]

.............. and blipping just sounds cool :niceone:

Yip.... I often find myself "Blipping" into '0' gear as well..... :lol:

...I must learn to count. Ive often wondered whether that last blip makes it as painfully obvious to others as it is me, that Ive tried to select a gear lower than 1st. :o

[onearmedbandit]

So who's the rider? The track is obviously Ruapuna...

I can't see how you would manage clutchless downshifting without blipping the throttle. It would be very jerky at least.

Actually, with just the right throttle application and a bit of pressure on the gearlever and you can downshift without the clutch, and without blipping. But it takes a bit more finesse, so I generally always blip, but even then without the clutch you still have to be careful. And the rider is moi, but you knew that already.

[Mikkel]

Actually, with just the right throttle application and a bit of pressure on the gearlever and you can downshift without the clutch, and without blipping. But it takes a bit more finesse, so I generally always blip, but even then without the clutch you still have to be careful. And the rider is moi, but you knew that already.

Must have been in your old leathers - but yes, I should have realised... Going fast without hanging off ;)

So, what are the advantages of not using the clutch? Is it bad for the bike or just harder to get the shifts smooth? I've been practicing not using the clutch on my trip over easter - and I found that when I got back into the city and started using the clutch my shifts had become much much smoother.

[Edbear]

When you ride a nice-sounding V-twin it is almost mandatory to blip on downshifts, especially in town!:niceone:

[onearmedbandit]

Must have been in your old leathers - but yes, I should have realised... Going fast without hanging off ;)

Yip, my previous leathers.


So, what are the advantages of not using the clutch?

Quicker smoother gear changes. Also for me when I'm on the pace it's just easier.


Is it bad for the bike or just harder to get the shifts smooth?
Some say it's bad for the gearbox, others claim it's not. I believe if it is done correctly then it does no harm to your gearbox, I've been doing it for years and never had any issues.


I've been practicing not using the clutch on my trip over easter - and I found that when I got back into the city and started using the clutch my shifts had become much much smoother.

Yip, it gives you a greater feel of what's happening.

[MotoKuzzi]

Yes. I dont't know how a bike would behave if the clutch had zero drag, not aware of any clutch designs that would have none, be interesting...
The Guzzi is a dry clutch and I've noticed there is progressively less drag as the clutch is pulled further in but it doesn't totally disappear at full disengagement. An old Truckie I once worked for (think S bedfords) said the gears are for driving and the brakes for stopping and thats how he wanted them driven. I still tend to drive a car and ride the bike like that, pulling the clutch in and coasting to intersections while downshifting as my speed drops so that i'm in the right gear by the time I need to use power again. Makes for smoother handling around town.

[Animal]

LMAO i was racing my bucket and coming into the first corner after the strait blipping the throttle and braking, my hand got stuck accelerating and i went strait into the tires. lesson learnt, don't stuff up blipping lol

Oh shit! You would not have felt proud! :clap:

[Animal]

Right size piston + right timing + just right amount of oil = perfection in Doof Doof :Punk::scooter:

Ok, enough now...It makes me want to go for a ride :innocent:

Don't slide off the seat! I've seen this happen. :devil2:

[Mike748]

Half clutch and bang it through the gears letting the slipper and engine share the load and then controlling load on both by applying the front brake.
And to quantify I don't push hard into corners and I'm still learning something every ride.

[Grahameeboy]

When you ride a nice-sounding V-twin it is almost mandatory to blip on downshifts, especially in town!:niceone:

I agree Mr Ed but me thinks you would not get away with that in the Hall car park eh?

[Kickaha]

I can't see how you would manage clutchless downshifting without blipping the throttle. It would be very jerky at least.

Not as bad as you think if you get it right



Some say it's bad for the gearbox, others claim it's not. I believe if it is done correctly then it does no harm to your gearbox, I've been doing it for years and never had any issues.


Spent a few years doing both up and down changes racing gearbox karts and didn't ever have a gearbox problem, same on the sidecar

Most of the time I generally don't bother "blipping" on the road, racing I used to do it one one sidecar I rode for a smoother shift but don't bother on anything else

[007XX]

Don't slide off the seat! I've seen this happen. :devil2:

Mebbe...but I make it look good! :cool:

:D

[Edbear]

I agree Mr Ed but me thinks you would not get away with that in the Hall car park eh?


LOL!!! Haven't tried it there, I just let it rumble at idle speed and with the walls around it gives just the right reverbrations. Attracts lots of admiring attention, though...

[Hitcher]

It is a well-known fact that "blipping" on downshifts impairs the ability of a bike to countersteer, and causes the bottom of the front wheel to travel faster than the top, rather than the accepted converse. This is further compounded by an exacerbated shaft effect, particularly on bikes with upside-down forks, and especially red ones. Compensating with body position should be taken under advisement.

[n0regret5]

its very neccesary on big twins cos of the compression..even with the slipper clutch on my TL if i've missed the blip the back wheel lets go. i've always done it, even on my fxr150.

[discotex]

Sure a lot of this should be learned at trackdays or advanced tuition, but most riders don't have access to this, or can't afford, or feel intimidated because they ride a 1980's commuter.


Given a trackday is $95 and any bike is fine in the slow group I call that pussy shit. People need to HTFU and get there and learn to ride well. Ditto the RRRS style stuff. There were VTR250's and all sorts at the last MotoTT day.


do people who have slipper clutches need to do this? I know MotoGP people have slipper clutches AND their electronics either blip the throttle or up the idle speed so the rear wheel doesnt hop.

Everything I've read says yes. I personally don't know as I don't have one and if I don't blip I lock the rear (unless I change down once the rpm drop but then I'm doing it all milliseconds from turn-in) .

A slipper clutch won't save you from a really bad change. What it does is lets the MotoGP and WSBK riders bang down the gears real fast well before the corner. It's "bangbangbang.... tip-in" rather than "bang....bang...bang..tip-in".

Watch their right hand near the end of the straight and you'll see most of them still blip down the gears.

[rwh]

I used to do it more on my 250 (v-twin) than I do on my 750 (IL4).

Part of the reason is that it seems to be harder - when I try it, I often seem to give it too much, and get an accidental burst of acceleration, which is not what I want approaching a corner (or even worse, an intersection with a pedestrian wandering across in front of me ...).

More often, I just hold the throttle where it is, usually slightly open, which seems to do the job.

Also, it doesn't seem to need it so much. Mind you, the big excitement on the 250 was that for some reason I would occasionally change the wrong way (I blame it on the B120 I did my BHS on, with its upside-down box), which would sometimes result in a big squawk from the rear tyre.

I should practice it more on the 750, though.

Richard

[terbang]

I think that I still do it? I sort of think gear change and a whole bunch of things happen and I'm in the next gear. I only use the clutch on downshifts. The Cagiva (TL1000) tends to have a fair amount of engine braking and It works nicely on that to smoothe out downshifts. Sounds real cool too...

[Animal]

Mebbe...but I make it look good! :cool:

:D

Stop messing with my imagination, woman! :devil2::devil2::devil2:

[007XX]

Stop messing with my imagination, woman! :devil2::devil2::devil2:

:rofl: Hook, line and sinker...:hug:

[Edbear]

I think that I still do it? I sort of think gear change and a whole bunch of things happen and I'm in the next gear. I only use the clutch on downshifts. The Cagiva (TL1000) tends to have a fair amount of engine braking and It works nicely on that to smoothe out downshifts. Sounds real cool too...


Like I said, a nice sounding v-twin makes blipping on downshifts mandatory...:niceone:

[Rev DJ]

So let me get this right - blipping means opening up the throttle to match the engine revs so that the gear change is smooth i.e. matching engine speed to transmission speed etc...

The use of the front brake obviously come into play, so how do riders 'blip' the throttle when putting pressure on the front brake lever. Is it more of a roll of the hand/wrist, or release the brake - blip - re-apply brake -, or a more agressive tap/roll of the hand/wrist while braking like you see done by riders in race settings? Further comments? Cheers DJ

[discotex]

So let me get this right - blipping means opening up the throttle to match the engine revs so that the gear change is smooth i.e. matching engine speed to transmission speed etc...

Exactly that... Stops you locking up your rear tyre when banging down the gears.



The use of the front brake obviously come into play, so how do riders 'blip' the throttle when putting pressure on the front brake lever. Is it more of a roll of the hand/wrist, or release the brake - blip - re-apply brake -, or a more agressive tap/roll of the hand/wrist while braking like you see done by riders in race settings? Further comments? Cheers DJ

Either blip down before using the brakes (what I tend to do on the road as I'm not braking late) or use the palm to blip while the brakes are on (on the track).

Doing the latter is much easier if your throttle has little free play and you brake with 2 fingers (more than enough on a modern sportbike but YMMV on other bikes with less powerful brakes).

[scumdog]

Always tend to 'blip' and brake at the same time.

Takes a little practice to get it spot on - and can be easily screwed up by not concentrating - or a change in gloves.

[Ocean1]

So let me get this right - blipping means opening up the throttle to match the engine revs so that the gear change is smooth i.e. matching engine speed to transmission speed etc...

The use of the front brake obviously come into play, so how do riders 'blip' the throttle when putting pressure on the front brake lever. Is it more of a roll of the hand/wrist, or release the brake - blip - re-apply brake -, or a more agressive tap/roll of the hand/wrist while braking like you see done by riders in race settings? Further comments? Cheers DJ

I didn't know how it happens until the last time this came up, when I actually paid attention to what my right hand was doing. I suspect techniques vary a lot but for me it's just a quick, (and very slight) snap down of the wrist/forearm, so the palm drags down on the back of the twistgrip, as opposed to the full grip normal when the brake's no being used. That seems to leave the brake fingers resonably undisturbed.

The Buell's brake is a genuine two finger item, you could easilly get maximum power with the pinky and his neighbour still wrapped around the grip and that might mean you have better control of the throttle, duno. I use three fingers on the brake anyway, (old habit I can't change) and I don't seem to have any less control of the brake during a blip (tm). I think the angle of your levers is important, if the brake is angled up too much (or down for that matter) you've got no wrist movement left when you're on the brake...

[moT]

Yeah i do it it takes a little geting used to but stops compression locking which is really handy. Try doing it in a car its harder

[pritch]

What it does is lets the MotoGP and WSBK riders bang down the gears real fast well before the corner. <snip>
Watch their right hand near the end of the straight and you'll see most of them still blip down the gears.

From watching Rossi et al at the end of the main straight at Phillip Island they appear to block shift, blip blip blip and dump the clutch. (You didn't need to watch their hands on the 900s, you could probably hear them as far away as Queensland.)

I was unaware that it was possible to change down without blipping the throttle.
I certainly wouldn't buy bike off someone who rode like that. One more question I have to remember... :whistle:

[Badjelly]

From watching Rossi et al at the end of the main straight at Phillip Island they appear to block shift, blip blip blip and dump the clutch.

Block shift? Does that mean you go through several gears before re-engaging the clutch?

[Rev DJ]

There is some awesome feedback on this thread :clap: I'll have to put in a focused practice session at the weekend and see what I can achieve - blip thanks blip for blip the blip feedback blip. :woohoo: Cheers DJ

[pritch]

Block shift? Does that mean you go through several gears before re-engaging the clutch?

Exactly. I do it with two gears sometimes round town but more than that you would need to have a slipper clutch.

If you went down three gears and dumped the clutch at speed like the pros do it'd likely be "Hello Mr Highside"!

[Mikkel]

Exactly. I do it with two gears sometimes round town but more than that you would need to have a slipper clutch.

If you went down three gears and dumped the clutch at speed like the pros do it'd likely be "Hello Mr Highside"!

Hmmm, unless the speed of the bike causes the engine to be pushed beyond the redline for a particular gear you should still be able top blip you throttle to match revs and speed...

As such it shouldn't really be too bad.

Or am I misunderstanding what you are trying to say?

[pritch]

Or am I misunderstanding what you are trying to say?

Perhaps.

I don't know about a 250, never owned one. On most bikes without a slipper clutch the rear wheel would likely lock up instantly.

I seem to recall that there was someone hereabout recently rediscovered this...
There's nothing like empirical data :whistle:

[Hitcher]

On most bikes without a slipper clutch the rear wheel would likely lock up instantly.

Codswallop.

[bully]

i used to on my tractor, but the r1 changes so fast its hard to fit it in, iv been trying harder latley but nah i dont really bother... slipper clutch...

[pritch]

Codswallop.

Really? So why go to all the trouble and expense of designing slipper clutches?

[sAsLEX]

Really? So why go to all the trouble and expense of designing slipper clutches?

Too make it easier to ride faster and require less skill.

[Hitcher]

Really? So why go to all the trouble and expense of designing slipper clutches?

I rarely "blip" on downshifts (unless I am feverishly masturbating for the benefit of assembled multitudes). I ride an FJR1300. When changing gears, I invariably use the clutch that the manufacturer has thoughtfully provided for my riding comfort and pleasure. I have never had the back wheel lock-up yet on a downshift.

[grogan]

Well phucked if I know why I/we blip but we just do... its a habit...:whocares:

[Rogue]

sounds cool :apint:

[Ixion]

Codswallop.

Maybe on a small bike or a four. But a big single or V twin will indeed lock the wheel if downshifting is too aggressive. The road outside still has the rubber marks where exactly that happened to me on the ffwabbitt.

Wouldn't usually highside though, cos you wouldn't usually do it cranked over.

[pritch]

Maybe on a small bike or a four. But a big single or V twin will indeed lock the wheel if downshifting is too aggressive. The road outside still has the rubber marks where exactly that happened to me on the ffwabbitt.

Wouldn't usually highside though, cos you wouldn't usually do it cranked over.

I did mention empirical data, and we were talking about block changes. If you were to change down three or four gears in one hit from speed and dump the clutch like the GP riders do I still think it'd likely lock up. Whether that resulted in a high side or not would depend on what happened immediately following the lock up and how the rider responded to that.

I understand a near(ish) neighbour of hitcher has had relevant recent experience but that isn't my story to tell.

[DarkLord]

Yes thanks for all of the info. Learning this technique has helped me with my downshifting a lot. My front wheel used to lock up often and now I rarely, if ever, lock it up while shifting down.

:niceone:

[Ixion]

Your front wheel ?

[DarkLord]

Actually, no, I meant back wheel. Not thinking straight today....haha. :blink:

[scumdog]

I rarely "blip" on downshifts (unless I am feverishly masturbating for the benefit of assembled multitudes). I ride an FJR1300. When changing gears, I invariably use the clutch that the manufacturer has thoughtfully provided for my riding comfort and pleasure. I have never had the back wheel lock-up yet on a downshift.

As second rear is a lot lower in ratio in proportion than the other gears on my Harley I have successfully locked up the rear wheel on my HD when one up and belting down through the gears into second on approaching a tight bend.

Maybe I'm just overenthusiastic? (or ham-fisted:blink:?)

[rocketman1]

Blipping the throttle, may be fun and sound good on most bikes but to get pure bliss, try it on a SV1000 twin with yoshis magic...or should i say orgasmic..wow is that why I ride one?

[Biggles2000]

As second rear is a lot lower in ratio in proportion than the other gears on my Harley I have successfully locked up the rear wheel on my HD when one up and belting down through the gears into second on approaching a tight bend.

Maybe I'm just overenthusiastic? (or ham-fisted:blink:?)

I've done the same and had the rear skip a bit. Probably because the mighty HD has a little more spinning mass in its motor than our more modern brothers. I too blip because it just sounds cool on a Harley OK!:cool:

I have been trying to blip in the car, but "heal toe" gear changes are quite difficult to do in a car, even when wearing racing shoes. It really comes into its own on the track when every millisecond counts. I have had propper NZ motor racing school instruction, have looked at videos and read books but I find it really difficult to get right.