Fatal target fixation...

[Mikkel]

Interesting video.

Good road, nice corners - too many bikes going way too fast.

One very close shave - then he forgets to turn...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAoeJUKg36g&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAoeJUKg36g&feature=related

[jrandom]

Sigh.<tencharacters>

[MyGSXF]

Sigh.<tencharacters>

...yep... :pinch:

[Quasievil]

mmmmm where have I seen that happen before.

RIP Daryl n Bruce

[Disco Dan]

*shakes head*

[Trudes]

Be nice if people stayed on their side of the road eh.

[onearmedbandit]

Seen it a few times now, sobering reminder.

[Warr]

Fatal ? error - Riding beyond ones own limits.
He just couldn't let the other guy go, tried to cut in on the car before it reached the corner, miss-judged and paid for it... along with other innocent road users.

[ManDownUnder]

Now THAT looks like a road safety vid if ever I saw one.

[GaZBur]

Hate to say this but what did he expect to happen. Perhaps all bikes should have onboard cameras to make the coronors job easier. Whatever happened to him was his own doing but i gotta feel for the innocent guy/girl coming the other way. Does anone know if they came out of this?

[Quasievil]

Most riders (I believe) assume they have good time to pass as they only expect to see a slow ole car coming the other way, so they pass in small gaps, you should ride on the assumptions a fast sportsbike is coming the other way.
that would save a few eh.

[Mikkel]

According to the Youtube notes (that's why I put the link there as well) the guy who took the video survived with serious injury. The innocent rider coming the other way was not so fortunate.

What is so tragic about it is that it would have been easily avoided! The way I see it, the rider is pushing himself beyond his comfort zone and when something slightly unexpected happens he falls into the trap of target fixation. He should have been able to just lean it over to the right of the oncoming bike - however he went straight into it.

Also, with the close shave just seconds earlier you'd think that would make you wake up and slow down...

[Str8 Jacket]

Also, with the close shave just seconds earlier you'd think that would make you wake up and slow down...

You would think! It also may have just made him edgy and nervous, hence the target fixation. Sometimes if Ive had a near miss or done something very stupid I usually pull over for awhile and have a ciggy until I calm down OR I turn around and go home slowly if I just cant shake *that* feeling.

[Nagash]

I reckon he just pushed himself too far and just gave up.

He was heading through that corner dead straight and would of made it if he actually turned, I reckon he was just looking to lose some speed on the roll and just turn a bit later on down the road, not realising there was a bike coming the other way..

Stay on your own side of the road! I'm not exactly a saint for that type of thing but i'll get it eventually.

I do hope he gave up riding due to killing another biker.. if he was ever able to be in a position to ride again.

[Taz]

He was doin fine til he tried to keep up with the bike that overtook him. You could see his revs pick up as soon as the other guy went past but he was lacking in roadcraft. An example of not riding at your own pace. Feel really sorry for the suzuki rider coming the other way.

[Maha]

If only he could have his day all over again!....would it be different?
I doubt it, he was born a twat and died one.
Shame of it all, he took another life with him, makes him guilty of Manslaughter at the very least.
He took a calculated risk and it failed.
Fuckin' cool vid though!

[avgas]

Also, with the close shave just seconds earlier you'd think that would make you wake up and slow down...
Mabey we are looking at this wrong, mabey the first shave wasn't close enough.
I did kind of laugh though, he was leaning hard in the first corner and someone passed with very little lean on round the outside. That was it for me - first 30 seconds told me that this loser could not ride. Its a bummer about the crash - but at least the moron wasnt in his pickup instead.

[onearmedbandit]

He was doin fine til he tried to keep up with the bike that overtook him. You could see his revs pick up as soon as the other guy went past but he was lacking in roadcraft. An example of not riding at your own pace. Feel really sorry for the suzuki rider coming the other way.

I think you will find it was the Suzuki rider who was in the wrong.

[GaZBur]

He was doin fine til he tried to keep up with the bike that overtook him. You could see his revs pick up as soon as the other guy went past but he was lacking in roadcraft. An example of not riding at your own pace. Feel really sorry for the suzuki rider coming the other way.
EXACTLY.... And that is why if you hear anyone laughing at another riders chicken stripes you should smack the smirk off his face as it will only encourage people to go beyond thier limits as this guy obviously was. He had a camera rolling so he wanted to be impressive, I doubt any of us were impressed!
I really feel for the family of the other rider as I seen crashes from that point of view and it really ..... well you know!

[Aa7]

these vids make me feel so sick always. why the hell did he ride into and out of the incoming lane like a crack addict at the controls and then speed up once the other rider passed him :( i would like to see vids like this become a mandatory viewing session as part of the basic handling skills test, and again at the learners, restricted and full tests, along with vists to the spinal clinic and then maybe make them troll through ride to die dot com for a few minutes at each test too.

[swbarnett]

I think this is a case of double target fixation. The rider that is on the correct side of the road (the one without the camera) seems to have made no attempt to take evasive action. The lane to their right was free and clear, affording a viable escape root.

Also, without sound it's hard to say but a blast on the horn may have broken the other rider's target fixation. If ever I'm in a similar situation I always sound the horn in an attempt to have two drivers/riders trying to avoid a collision instead of just one.

I had exactly this situation over Easter weekend in the cage. Come round a blind corner to find some dickhead cage pulling out four cars down the road. I only avoided them by scrubbing off about 80kph and using the shoulder (they passed all four cars and pulled in just before the corner).

[dipshit]

I think you will find it was the Suzuki rider who was in the wrong.

How do you figure that?

It looks to me that it is one lane with a solid line in the direction the Yamaha is going, with two lanes separated by a broken line for the other direction.

[Mikkel]

I think this is a case of double target fixation. The rider that is on the correct side of the road (the one without the camera) seems to have made no attempt to take evasive action. The lane to their right was free and clear, affording a viable escape root.

Also, without sound it's hard to say but a blast on the horn may have broken the other rider's target fixation. If ever I'm in a similar situation I always sound the horn in an attempt to have two drivers/riders trying to avoid a collision instead of just one.

The guy on the Yamaha would have had all of the blink of an eye to react. If you check his line again you can see that he is starting to move right into the inner lane - bear in mind he would have been setting up for the corner. He has just come out of a right hander as well...

No amount of horn would have made a difference in this case. The last I can see of his speedo he's doing something like 130-140 km/h...


How do you figure than?

It looks to me that it is one lane with a solid line in the direction the Yamaha is going, with two lanes separated by a broken line for the other direction.

The camera is on the Suzuki - the Suzuki crosses the solid line and slams head on into the Yamaha which is travelling in the lefthand lane of two lanes.

Check it again, if you can not see it I suggest getting your eyes checked before getting on a bike or in a car...

[Balrog]

Be nice if people stayed on their side of the road eh.

+1

Its a simple concept that to many people don't seem to be able to grasp.

[dipshit]

The camera is on the Suzuki - the Suzuki crosses the solid line and slams head on into the Yamaha which is travelling in the lefthand lane of two lanes.


Are yes. Suzuki = camera bike.

[swbarnett]

The guy on the Yamaha would have had all of the blink of an eye to react.
Yes, a second or less according to the timing on the video.


If you check his line again you can see that he is starting to move right into the inner lane - bear in mind he would have been setting up for the corner. He has just come out of a right hander as well...
Missed the right hander. Still, it looks to me that he's running parallel to the dotted line and making no attempt to lean right. Hard to say for sure.


No amount of horn would have made a difference in this case.
This could well be true but it can't hurt (unless it's hard to reach, my wife has this problem because of short fingers).


The last I can see of his speedo he's doing something like 130-140 km/h...
All I can see is the glare. Although you can see it a little earlier and I'd concur as to the speed.


A question just occurred to me. If the Yamaha had been travelling so that they could've stopped in half their visibility would they have been able to at least avoid the Suzuki?

[Usarka]

you should ride on the assumptions a fast sportsbike is coming the other way.
that would save a few eh.

:yes: even though im not balls to the wall (read: slooooow) i always treat a corner like a mirror - that i'm coming the other way.

[PrincessBandit]

Sigh indeed. And I still can't believe after watching this that there will still be some out there in kbland who will still spout "htfu" etc. when others complain of dickhead riders like that amongst us. Anyone with even a modicum of honesty will acknowledge that there's an element who will risk their own (and others' lives) riding in the manner shown in that footage - and then think that because they didn't happen to die that day (or kill anyone else) that it makes it ok. Then when anyone has the gall to complain/criticise- especially if they were glorifying their stupidity - they go into overdrive about their prowess or launch into attacking the complainee. Good God, how many incidents like there must there be before people wake up to the reality that we don't live in our own little "invicibility ball" when we're out there on the road. If you can't separate reality from fantasy stay the hell off ya bike! (or stay the hell out of ya car whatever).

[Mike748]

A question just occurred to me. If the Yamaha had been travelling so that they could've stopped in half their visibility would they have been able to at least avoid the Suzuki?

I believe the rule you are referring to applies to single lane roads where oncoming traffic share your lane. For two lane roads you are supposed to be able to stop within the visible distance of your lane.

Or something like that.

[swbarnett]

I believe the rule you are referring to applies to single lane roads where oncoming traffic share your lane. For two lane roads you are supposed to be able to stop within the visible distance of your lane.

Or something like that.
I don't know if it's a rule but it's something I was taught.

The theory is that if you can stop in half your visibility (or at least the visible road) and some prick comes over a rise or round a bend in your lane you've got a reasonable chance of stopping before a collision occurs or at least a good chance of avoiding the other vehicle.

My wife and I have each had one incident where this technique may well have saved our lives.

[Ixion]

The *law* is that you must be able to stop in one half the clear visible distance ahead on a single lane road (ie no centre line); and in the clear distance ahead where there is a centre line.

The logic being, as someone said, that if the road is divided, then in theory the worst case scenario is a staionary object ahead. Whereas if it is not, both you and the oncoming vehicle may have to stop in the clear disatnce. half each.

Wisdom says that maybe allowing a bit more than the bare law might be a good idea.

[Pussy]

Sigh indeed. And I still can't believe after watching this that there will still be some out there in kbland who will still spout "htfu" etc. when others complain of dickhead riders like that amongst us. Anyone with even a modicum of honesty will acknowledge that there's an element who will risk their own (and others' lives) riding in the manner shown in that footage - and then think that because they didn't happen to die that day (or kill anyone else) that it makes it ok. Then when anyone has the gall to complain/criticise- especially if they were glorifying their stupidity - they go into overdrive about their prowess or launch into attacking the complainee. Good God, how many incidents like there must there be before people wake up to the reality that we don't live in our own little "invicibility ball" when we're out there on the road. If you can't separate reality from fantasy stay the hell off ya bike! (or stay the hell out of ya car whatever).
+1... couldn't have said it any better myself

[TOTO]

Sigh indeed. And I still can't believe after watching this that there will still be some out there in kbland who will still spout "htfu" etc. when others complain of dickhead riders like that amongst us. Anyone with even a modicum of honesty will acknowledge that there's an element who will risk their own (and others' lives) riding in the manner shown in that footage - and then think that because they didn't happen to die that day (or kill anyone else) that it makes it ok. Then when anyone has the gall to complain/criticise- especially if they were glorifying their stupidity - they go into overdrive about their prowess or launch into attacking the complainee. Good God, how many incidents like there must there be before people wake up to the reality that we don't live in our own little "invicibility ball" when we're out there on the road. If you can't separate reality from fantasy stay the hell off ya bike! (or stay the hell out of ya car whatever).


+2 on that.

[sinned]

I think this is a case of double target fixation. The rider that is on the correct side of the road (the one without the camera) seems to have made no attempt to take evasive action. The lane to their right was free and clear, affording a viable escape root.

Also, without sound it's hard to say but a blast on the horn may have broken the other rider's target fixation. If ever I'm in a similar situation I always sound the horn in an attempt to have two drivers/riders trying to avoid a collision instead of just one.


If the speeds were lower these actions may work. This rider was going far too fast for his own capability and probably also for the conditions. Count the time between him just missing the first bike and hitting the second one, 1 - 2 seconds? The other rider did not have time to react or change the bikes path. Target fixation or shock after missing the first bike? - we will never know.

He was just riding too fast for his ability and the conditions.

[Ripperjon]

Do you think he might have locked up the front when he gets himself stuck between the near-miss and the car he tried to pass too late?
Looks like the front dips as he is about to pull back in. Maybe he was looking at the car or maybe even the first bike over his shoulder out of fright as he sails to the left? Who knows

Don't know how experienced the guy was but as a noob i know how easy it is to fixate and having watched the vid i wouldn't fancy my own chances of avoiding the second bike in a situation like that. First time watching i barely saw it coming either.

On the subject of fixation;

Something i noticed in myself today while i was out riding with friends was that when i had someone ahead of me around a bend i tended to fixate on them instead of looking through the corner. I was riding safely far back so not in danger of collision with them but i found i was watching them rather than concentrating on my own line / speed.
I realised that it was making me imitate their riding and putting me in a position on the road where i was having to lean the bike harder than i am used to at the moment. (He'd go out wider and lean in tighter than i've been doing).
Luckily, i noticed i was doing this stuff early enough to avoid upset.

[GaZBur]

I think target fixation is a good title to this thread even if it may not have been the real problem in this case. Its well known LOOK WHERE YOU WANT TO GO! Your natural instincts will do the bike riding - if you are looking at the gravel on the outside of a turn instead of the path you want to ride - guess where you will end up. Sounds like bullshit - try it sometime - but not with a solid object please!

[discotex]

Looks like the front dips as he is about to pull back in. Maybe he was looking at the car or maybe even the first bike over his shoulder out of fright as he sails to the left? Who knows


That's the target fixation in action. He's actually locked onto the oncoming rider and steers into them.

The other problem is that one rider goes left, the other goes right and they haven't achieved anything. They then both try the other direction and they're still on collision course.

It's something that happens even at the slow speed of boats and as a result a rule of "everyone turn right when in doubt" has been developed.

[discotex]

mmmmm where have I seen that happen before.

RIP Daryl n Bruce

I've seen this vid too many times. Makes me fucking sick after reading your account of that day Quasi.

I stay on my side of the line so why can't everyone else? Pisses me off that I have to sacrifice a portion of my side of the road expecting it. Worse than the cages doing it are the bikes. We should know better.

[homer]

watching the vid carefully , just befor ethe impact you see the bike move from left to right and back about 2 times , he didnt know where to go
still no excusses, just that he was looking for the way out then kept looking at the target

[sAsLEX]

That's the target fixation in action. He's actually locked onto the oncoming rider and steers into them.


Hmmm we are assuming here, the fact he very nearly clips the first bike might make him simply sit the bike up in shock.

But the fact there was space to the left and right of the oncoming bike he could of used as escape routes does lend evidence to this.

Stay on your side of the road.

And as Quasi said plan for a hoon coming the other way, I was taught Police car coming the other way at 200

[Mikkel]

Well, dunno what year the GSX-R was - but if it was an older 600 ccm it wouldn't have had USD forks and changing direction becomes a challenge. (p/t)

It seems people don't appreciate how little time you have to react when you're travelling at ~130 km/h and something is coming your way at a similar speed. There simply isn't enough time to rationalise that there's space on both sides of the oncoming bike - it's about reacting in the right way, and riding straight into the other bike is not it.

[swbarnett]

It seems people don't appreciate how little time you have to react when you're travelling at ~130 km/h and something is coming your way at a similar speed. There simply isn't enough time to rationalise that there's space on both sides of the oncoming bike - it's about reacting in the right way, and riding straight into the other bike is not it.
A bit like cricket. If you're facing a fast bowler you have to predict from the bowler's movement where the ball will be and decide where and how to swing before the ball leaves the bowler's hand because there's simply not enough time afterwards to make a decision and act on it.

[breakaway]

<object width="464" height="392"><param name="movie" value="http://embed.break.com/NDg4MDU1"></param><embed src="http://embed.break.com/NDg4MDU1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="464" height="392"></embed></object><br><font size=1><a href="http://my.break.com/content/view.aspx?ContentID=488055">Motorcycle vs. Wild Boar</a> - Watch more <a href="http://www.break.com/">free videos</a></font>

:E

Good on the 2nd guy for not following the first. Almost lost it for a second there.

[skidMark]

mmmmm where have I seen that happen before.

RIP Daryl n Bruce


Sigh :(........

[skidMark]

Good on the 2nd guy for not following the first. Almost lost it for a second there.

Gotta watch thems wild pigs mid corner...like wtf seriously...

insurance company, how did this happen, oh i um err

hit a wild boar.

[skidMark]

Well, dunno what year the GSX-R was - but if it was an older 600 ccm it wouldn't have had USD forks and changing direction becomes a challenge. (p/t)

It seems people don't appreciate how little time you have to react when you're travelling at ~130 km/h and something is coming your way at a similar speed. There simply isn't enough time to rationalise that there's space on both sides of the oncoming bike - it's about reacting in the right way, and riding straight into the other bike is not it.


The right way up ....is upside down.

[smitty]

Sigh indeed. And I still can't believe after watching this that there will still be some out there in kbland who will still spout "htfu" etc.

Well put and thanks for highlighting an important issue that annoys me. I've been lurking for a long time and not posting at all because its the few morons with HTFU comments that spoil it for me.

[dpex]

Interesting video.

Good road, nice corners - too many bikes going way too fast.

One very close shave - then he forgets to turn...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAoeJUKg36g&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAoeJUKg36g&feature=related

Mikkel, if you watch you see the about-to-be-departed take off. A cager roars past. He squirts past the cager then starts doing his own thing at 'his' speed. Then the rabbit passes (the red bike) The A.T.B.D. gets a head trip and tries to follow. The rest is history.

It's noteworthy that neither collision rider attempted to avoid. They just froze and kissed death.

[Grub]

Sickening isn't it.