Mother truckin' electrics!

[Ragingrob]

OK, what fits these symptoms?! :

Bike runs mint as.
No loss of power at all when accelerating.
Handled a few hundred k ride last weekend amazingly.
Cuts out once every few weeks whilst riding...

Today heading home motorway from town to Karaka, indicated to head off at offramp and I noticed the dash lights were quite dim, got halfway up offramp and indicated to turn right whilst slowing down and bike cuts out completely. Turn key off and on, dash lights on but dim, no starter at all. If I turned lights on, dash dims out completely.

So... Push fucking bike up offramp hill, turn right out of offramp and push bike up fucking bridge where there is no room but the lane. Jump on bike, run down hill, bump starts fine and runs fine. Lights full beam, dash lights bright, starter works easy, all good!

Get home and battery measures fully charged, regulator fault finding says charging system is all sweet...

Hmmm... Well I've put the battery on charge anyway... Is it possible that the battery is just getting old and gives up for a few mins at a time?

P.S. This whole cutting out thing has happened for the past say 4 months, but has only happened like 6 times or so... And whenever we check the electrics it says it's all good and not to worry lol and then throws a hissy fit when finally I think everything is perfect!

Sooo... Battery? Help me out! :2thumbsup

[Spuds1234]

Loose battery terminal connection?

A loose connection somewhere.

Find it. Fix it. Ride the bike.

[Bloody Mad Woman (BMW)]

Can relate to your frustration with fn electrics. Had some problems once with my bike - I sprayed CRC around things. Had changed the battery but it wasn't that. Checked starter etc - you name it. Don't know what was wrong really but after the CRC I've never had a problem.

[Ragingrob]

The past few times I have checked and cleaned contacts and made sure terminals are on nice and tight!

It's just so damn hard because whatever happens, it seems to run fine again 'till next time! Difficult to single any problems out!

[Ragingrob]

Can relate to your frustration with fn electrics. Had some problems once with my bike - I sprayed CRC around things. Had changed the battery but it wasn't that. Checked starter etc - you name it. Don't know what was wrong really but after the CRC I've never had a problem.

Is it safe and am I able to spray CRC or WD40 onto battery terminals? In case they just have some kinda grease/dirt that I can't see straight off?

[idb]

I'd first check all your battery connections.

Look at the connections onto your battery terminals, are they all furry?
Take them off, file or sand the terminals and the lugs down to shiny metal, connect back up nice and tight. Vaseline around the connection to keep air out would be better than WD40.

Then check the connection of the negative lead to the bike frame.
Take it off and clean it up to make sure you have a good clean connection.

Try all that first before getting deeper into it.

[Squiggles]

Take your multimeter and ride with it, when she does it again, measure up the batt etc. You might end up the multimeter hardwired to it for a wee while till you notice what is happening

[klyong82]

Sounds like a battery issue. Might pay to check the terminals and connectors clean clean.

http://community.cbrworld.net/forums/140473/ShowPost.aspx
The above site is good to check if the reg/rec is toasted. But if the bike is working properly now then it might be a connection issue...

[Ragingrob]

Hmm yeah have followed a fault finding chart for reg/rec like the last 3 times it has cut out and it always goes nowhere, just saying that it's all working properly, even after me and Steve heated it up heaps with a hairdryer to see if it was stuffing once it got hot, but it was still all good!

I'm gonna file the terminals and connectors tomo and check the earth.

[roadracingoldfart]

Sounds more like an earth issue to me. Check for a crook earth near the dash etc.
Have you done anything to the bike recently like painting or such ??? It takes stuff all to cause a bad earth.

Just a wee thought.
Cheers Paul.

[Taz]

I had a 91 VFR750 that shat a reg/rec. Bike would start fine in the morning from cold but when I got to work the dash lights would be dim, battery hot and would hardly crank over. Let it sit for a few hours and it'd fire up no probs. Checked the charge rate and at 4000-5000 RPM it was pumping 18-19 volts in to the battery. Replaced the reg/rec with an aftermarket one and all was good again.
Andy.

[Mike748]

Sounds like my friends 916, will start won't start, batt fine etc etc.
His solution to date was to check and spray all connections with CRC.

CRC is fine on electrical connections, I used to use the marine type on my outboard and it did a great job stopping corrosion.

[Squiggles]

We did all the contacts with contact cleaner last time (from memory)

[motorbyclist]

what size is the battery? if you're coming on the saturday ride we'll just swap batteries and if your bike runs fine while mine shits out we'll know it's the battery. if mine runs fine we'll know it's your bike.

i've had similar problems on my honda - the kill switch, starter switch, and a few other things all used a common earth, which as a particular plug was both black with carbon and slowly coming unplugged. eventually got to the point where going full lock left killed the bike and you'd need to open up the fairings to get to the plug. soon fixed with a cable tie:D


personally i steer clear of applying oil to electrical contacts. it normally isn't conductive, though i'm not sure about crc (i hear it isn't strictly oil)

just use some contact cleaner - CRC lectra clean and CO cleaner both do very good jobs

[Ragingrob]

what size is the battery? if you're coming on the saturday ride we'll just swap batteries and if your bike runs fine while mine shits out we'll know it's the battery. if mine runs fine we'll know it's your bike.

i've had similar problems on my honda - the kill switch, starter switch, and a few other things all used a common earth, which as a particular plug was both black with carbon and slowly coming unplugged. eventually got to the point where going full lock left killed the bike and you'd need to open up the fairings to get to the plug. soon fixed with a cable tie:D


personally i steer clear of applying oil to electrical contacts. it normally isn't conductive, though i'm not sure about crc (i hear it isn't strictly oil)

just use some contact cleaner - CRC lectra clean and CO cleaner both do very good jobs

I'm gonna test my battery with a proper tester today putting a load on it etc and see what it comes up with, so hopefully it'll be able to rule out the battery.

Yeah does sound like I should check the earths, now that's a matter of finding them, I dunno where the ones up by the dash are actually located?

[klyong82]

I think the battery is YTX7L-BS from the top of my head

[HungusMaximist]

I think the battery is YTX7L-BS from the top of my head

You just had to add that in.. :msn-wink:

[FROSTY]

I agree totally with the earth thing.
With it being a bit erratic a couple of things i'd be investigating. 1) All battery connections. Then follow the positive lead to the starter solenoid. --flip the rubber boot off the top and check the nuts there arent loose.
Also. id be tracing my wiring looking for sharpish kinks--You may have a wire broken inside.-areas of most concern are places wires are constantly being kinked back n forwards--Ignition wires. as well as wires that could have been munched in a crash.
Another thought is to check the condition of the plug from your ignition switch

[motorbyclist]

I'm gonna test my battery with a proper tester today putting a load on it etc and see what it comes up with, so hopefully it'll be able to rule out the battery.

Yeah does sound like I should check the earths, now that's a matter of finding them, I dunno where the ones up by the dash are actually located?

actually, come to think of it my gsx250 had a similar problem with the same plug. that was under the tank, on the viffer it's on the right hand side under the fairings

just follow the wires from the handle bars

[Ragingrob]

Have a new battery ordered for Monday, we will see if that makes any difference but at least I'll be able to rule it out if it still stuffs up!

[Ragingrob]

So after getting a new battery....

My bike has had no problems, well no noticable problems... Have been riding around lots, full headlights on, starts first time pretty easy, kinda annoying having no choke but just need to throttle a bit to help it warm up.

This arvo after riding home from uni I parked in driveway then had some lunch then went to move it up to garage, the starter sounded a bit weaker than usual, it still started however but sounded slightly dull. Had to go coach, just got home now and measured batt which read only 11.6V ?!

Now my thoughts are : Either the battery needs a bit more of a first charge kinda thing, or the reg/rec is still suspect! Did a quick test from memory which again pointed to the charging system being fine, but will confirm that in the morning...

Don't REALLY wanna pay out even 150 for a new reg from Red Baron or whatever, but if the batt gets even lower I'm thinking it'd be a good option to finally rule it out! But yeah will go through that troubleshooting test AGAIN in the morning see what it reckons.

Your thoughts? Any chance it's just a new battery kinda symptom which needs a bit more of a kick in terms of a first charge?

[idb]

Have ya checked out ya circuit as suggested?
Could be something simple.
For example if your earth isn't good it won't charge properly.

[Ragingrob]

Well I've tried to check out as much as I know how to... Don't really know where to start with these earths sorry... Have made sure the main earth from battery is bolted on nice and cleanly but don't know where to go from there!

[Squiggles]

It'll take removing of the fairings to check the rest, well, the tank minimum, but you wont be able to access those at the front easily without removing the fairings

With them off we can trace all the wires, clean them up etc

[Ragingrob]

Hmmm well I guess I could spend a while at yours then lol. Got a big tennis match 10am so dunno what time I'll head in but yeah... Hmmm... :devil2: ... Fairings all off huh? This is gonna make me wanna spray them all completely nicely and everything though :devil2:, so that there's no more rainbow hiding inside my bike! Hmmmm.... I wonder.... :pinch:

[motorbyclist]

bah, just park at the uphill side of carparks from now on and she'll be sweet

[vagrant]

You might also check the terminal block where the wires run from the ignition barrel to the wiring loom. On my fireblade, its under the right hand fairing, next to the fuse box.
I had a similar problem, intermittent cutting out, and lights dimming. The terminals in the plug were corroded, and causing increased resistance, hence the lights dimming out and there not being enough power to keep the the engine running.
I found mine when it started to smoke and melted the the connector block.
In retrospec, it was a place I should have looked earlier, as all the electrical circuits run thru there. No ignition on, no lights, indicator, starter motor or spark.

[Ragingrob]

OK, so at the Uni spanner night last weekend I had all the fairings off and searched around but could not find any earths up near the ignition or around the dash. What we did find was a loose-ish headlight so we put that back in place and checked the wiring was secure. Other than that we didn't know what to do, so I painted my bike, you may have seen.

Well today electrics played with me again. Cruising along St Heliers Bay rd and come up to some lights, into neutral and stop, have a look down at dash and the neutral light seems a bit dim then suddenly bike starts to cut out, I manage to save it by revving slightly and turn my headlights off. Continue riding just to my mates down the road and turn lights on full and indicate etc etc but it doesn't cut out so I thought sweet no worries and turn bike off.

5mins later hop on bike and turn ignition on, push starter and once again nothing happens, dash lights just dim. Bump started it fine and kept headlights on low beam and went for a 30min ride all is good, starts fine and all too as usual.

Soooo, this is what the symptoms are i.e. Cuts out when :

Headlights have always been on full beam when it's cut out.

Slowing down to a stop and revs drop back to idle.

Sometimes whilst indicating AND high beam.

Once cut out it wont electric start, but AS SOON AS it's been bump started I can turn off and it starts perfectly fine again.

I don't get it :blank:...

Any new suggestions OR anyone who knows where the earths are located and lives in Auckland??

Cheers everyone!!!

[idb]

My money's on a bad connection somewhere.
It could be earth or the positive.
Since you lose everything I would expect that it'll be a major connection like battery connection, connection in or out of the main fuse, connection of the positive lead from the main fuse into the fuse box (assuming they are separate, they are on mine), main earth to the frame (find that by following the negative wire from the battery).

Also the crimp connections on the main leads might be worth a look too. The connections of the lugs to the battery or frame or terminals might be OK but the cable just might be coming apart within the lugs.
If they are soldered connections they are definitely worth a look.

The only other possibility I can think of is that the battery is internally breaking down giving you intermittent supply. I don't know much about this but I understand that it does happen.

[Ragingrob]

My money's on a bad connection somewhere.
It could be earth or the positive.
Since you lose everything I would expect that it'll be a major connection like battery connection, connection in or out of the main fuse, connection of the positive lead from the main fuse into the fuse box (assuming they are separate, they are on mine), main earth to the frame (find that by following the negative wire from the battery).

Also the crimp connections on the main leads might be worth a look too. The connections of the lugs to the battery or frame or terminals might be OK but the cable just might be coming apart within the lugs.
If they are soldered connections they are definitely worth a look.

The only other possibility I can think of is that the battery is internally breaking down giving you intermittent supply. I don't know much about this but I understand that it does happen.


Well firstly I have chucked a new battery in so we can rule that one out at least! All the contacts that are visible from the battery to the dash have been checked and cleaned. Main earth is fine.

So it comes down to the connections all around the dash, or the crimps that you talk of... Are these where the wires are joined? Damn it's annoying, it's not as if I can muck around and then say voila it's fixed, because the problem is intermittent!

Grrrr...

PS : Does the fact that it's only cut out when lights have been on full beam, mean that it must be in the circuitry involving high beam?

[motorbyclist]

looked at the plug that earths the starterbutton/killswitch etc?

might be a broken wire somewhere.... if we could somehow have a multimeter attached to all wires when it next cuts out...

[idb]

Well firstly I have chucked a new battery in so we can rule that one out at least! All the contacts that are visible from the battery to the dash have been checked and cleaned. Main earth is fine.

So it comes down to the connections all around the dash, or the crimps that you talk of... Are these where the wires are joined? Damn it's annoying, it's not as if I can muck around and then say voila it's fixed, because the problem is intermittent!

Grrrr...

PS : Does the fact that it's only cut out when lights have been on full beam, mean that it must be in the circuitry involving high beam?

It's all the fun of intermittent electrical faults.

If you have a poor connection somewhere it will cause a high resistance.
The greater the current passing through that connection the greater the voltage dropped across it...in other words there is less voltage available for the rest of the bike, such as the ignition.

If you add extra load such as a high beam it may mean that the voltage drop across the connection is too great to allow the ignition to operate.

Another way of testing using a multimeter would be to measure voltage across connections.
Test across the battery terminals without the bike running and you should get 12v or thereabouts.
Turn the light onto full beam, indicator on, stop light on and test from the negative terminal to the frame.
There should be no voltage reading, wriggle the wire a little to see if this changes.
Do the same on the positive from the battery terminal to the main fuse.
Then from the main fuse to the fuse box.

A high resistance joint will show a voltage reading.
A good joint will have minimal or none.

Have fun testing across as many connections as you can but they would be the first ones I would try. Make sure you gently work the joints a little as you test them.

[woodybee]

It's all the fun of intermittent electrical faults.

If you have a poor connection somewhere it will cause a high resistance.
The greater the current passing through that connection the greater the voltage dropped across it...in other words there is less voltage available for the rest of the bike, such as the ignition.

If you add extra load such as a high beam it may mean that the voltage drop across the connection is too great to allow the ignition to operate.

Another way of testing using a multimeter would be to measure voltage across connections.
Test across the battery terminals without the bike running and you should get 12v or thereabouts.
Turn the light onto full beam, indicator on, stop light on and test from the negative terminal to the frame.
There should be no voltage reading, wriggle the wire a little to see if this changes.
Do the same on the positive from the battery terminal to the main fuse.
Then from the main fuse to the fuse box.

A high resistance joint will show a voltage reading.
A good joint will have minimal or none.

Have fun testing across as many connections as you can but they would be the first ones I would try. Make sure you gently work the joints a little as you test them.

OOOOOOOO, IDB you are such a bright spark!! Such a clever lad, your taste in knowledge and the finer things in life is just impecable:rolleyes:

[avgas]

Check you battery is the right battery. I didn't and now after replacing the whole charging system and getting the bike all sorted im ALOT poorer ($2K:bash:)

[marty]

We did all the contacts with contact cleaner last time (from memory)

this action, without re-protecting the contacts with crc or similar, can dry out the contacts and joints, causing dry corrosion.

the aircraft industry uses anti-corrosion product on electrical connections to prevent water ingress. you should re-protect any places you clean with contact cleaner

[Ragingrob]

Cheers for the advice everyone, may take another look at things this Friday.

Went for a quick ride SH16 today was a good 2 hours all up and had no problems at all... The one thing I did differently was only ride on low beam rather than full like usual.

[motorbyclist]

still won't help you (or the next owner) next time you need high beam at night....

my thinking is if the electrical system somehow can't take the load of high beams, in a few months time the bike will be cutting out every time you hit the indicators......

[Ragingrob]

Hmmm, well maybe friday at Stephens I can attack it with the multimeter, with the guidance of others haha!

[munterk6]

Cheers for the advice everyone, may take another look at things this Friday.

Went for a quick ride SH16 today was a good 2 hours all up and had no problems at all... The one thing I did differently was only ride on low beam rather than full like usual.

Are you trying to piss off oncoming traffic? Or is this a "safety" idea of yours?
Dont worry, other motorists can detect low beam, ya dont need to blind people to grab there attention :clap:

[inlinefour]

OK, what fits these symptoms?! :

Bike runs mint as.
No loss of power at all when accelerating.
Handled a few hundred k ride last weekend amazingly.
Cuts out once every few weeks whilst riding...

Today heading home motorway from town to Karaka, indicated to head off at offramp and I noticed the dash lights were quite dim, got halfway up offramp and indicated to turn right whilst slowing down and bike cuts out completely. Turn key off and on, dash lights on but dim, no starter at all. If I turned lights on, dash dims out completely.

So... Push fucking bike up offramp hill, turn right out of offramp and push bike up fucking bridge where there is no room but the lane. Jump on bike, run down hill, bump starts fine and runs fine. Lights full beam, dash lights bright, starter works easy, all good!

Get home and battery measures fully charged, regulator fault finding says charging system is all sweet...

Hmmm... Well I've put the battery on charge anyway... Is it possible that the battery is just getting old and gives up for a few mins at a time?

P.S. This whole cutting out thing has happened for the past say 4 months, but has only happened like 6 times or so... And whenever we check the electrics it says it's all good and not to worry lol and then throws a hissy fit when finally I think everything is perfect!

Sooo... Battery? Help me out! :2thumbsup

sounds like a fooked voltage regulator, very common with some Hondas, I've been caught out once and once again on a sucksaki.:spanking: