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NOMIS
27th March 2008, 15:58
Ok after being arrested for alleged "dangerous speed"
Im kinda nervous and want to no what you guys think of what i have prepared for my defense please let me no. ( in the attached file)

Ragingrob
27th March 2008, 16:00
Hey bro good luck ay! The arrest was bullshit, you should come out on top. Cause it's true, your bike IS f'n loud!

Hellraiser
27th March 2008, 16:04
Plead not guilty and have your day in court you will get off

Mikkel
27th March 2008, 16:06
Hey bro good luck ay! The arrest was bullshit, you should come out on top. Cause it's true, your bike IS f'n loud!

Too loud for a WOF?

tri boy
27th March 2008, 16:09
Admitting to "full race exhaust" on a street bike may work against you.
Just saying.

Badjelly
27th March 2008, 16:29
Admitting to "full race exhaust" on a street bike may work against you. Just saying.

I agree. Just say it's loud.

Ragingrob
27th March 2008, 16:30
Too loud for a WOF?

Not sure, pretty loud but I'm sure Harleys etc are louder...

Mikkel
27th March 2008, 16:32
Not sure, pretty loud but I'm sure Harleys etc are louder...

Might be worthwhile getting VIR to do a WOF before going to court...

fizbin
27th March 2008, 16:36
good luck man! i have added some thoughts for you to think about.
if you need to know how loud you bike is drop me a line tonight 0274825163 and i can meet you some where i have a digital sound meter to get a reading from it.
i would say in light of the fact they don't have a hard reading of your speed, ask for the case to be dropped at this point, if not then do as the other fellow says plead not guilty and seek legal advice. to fight it.
if this goes on your record insurance will be a bitch as well as police will have it on record and it will come up everytime you get pulled over.

barty5
27th March 2008, 16:38
i would be say full road legal race exhuast sound better

Korumba
27th March 2008, 17:19
A judge won’t read that letter it’s to long, try and keep it short

I don’t know the details (other than what’s in your letter) but I would try something like the attached

Good luck.

Caladbolg
27th March 2008, 17:33
That last version of the letter is the one to go with.. short and simple is good, you dont want to piss the judge off. the same goes with police. I was arrested for tresspassing in a quarry whilst taking a shortcut home from ruapuna which ended up with the cop getting a telling off from the judge for wasting the courts time, I was discharged without conviction. So really it can go both ways depending on the judge. I reckon with the police having only circumstancial evidence, you'd get off easy. It is 'innocent until proven guilty' and with no solid evidence theyd be real C$NTS to convict you of it.

Number One
27th March 2008, 17:36
Have nothing useful to add so will just say what I'm thinking good luck for Monday I hope things go well for you!

NOMIS
27th March 2008, 17:38
thanks alot guys thats awsum !!! yeh hopefully ill be ok.

PJ_tpl
27th March 2008, 17:51
Youll be sweeeet honey. Ill be there for you sweety

Tank
27th March 2008, 20:59
Ok after being arrested for alleged "dangerous speed"
Im kinda nervous and want to no what you guys think of what i have prepared for my defense please let me no. ( in the attached file)

Best of luck with the case. Do come back on Monday and let us know how it goes.

From a neutral standpoint (not knowing you or the case), and to be honest I read the attachment thinking 'what bullshit is this knob going to spout to try and get out of this?'

Id give you a get out of job free - it sounds like you have copped a bad one.

again - good luck.

Steam
27th March 2008, 21:06
Damn that cursed admission of 80kph! I think that'll sink you.
Good luck though.

Ragingrob
27th March 2008, 21:08
In courts they don't usually take into account admissions of liability etc I don't think... Well I know they don't in terms of crashes at least, they know your nerves are high and cops put you under pressure.

mowgli
27th March 2008, 21:22
Damn that cursed admission of 80kph! I think that'll sink you.
Good luck though.

Yeah I was thinking the same thing.

If you're asked about the admission you should stress how uncomfortable the cop made you feel as he repeatedly asked about your speed, not accepting the answers you gave. It's common for young people to panic and say sorts of things under questioning by police. Your youth might count for you in this instance.

Dino
27th March 2008, 21:24
Good luck in court, I hope the judge asks the cop for some decent facts about how he came to estimate you were traveling at "dangerous speed".

NOMIS
27th March 2008, 21:29
Good luck in court, I hope the judge asks the cop for some decent facts about how he came to estimate you were traveling at "dangerous speed".


Yeh aparntly my concerned neighbours told him : "HA"
He said when he came down my st all my neighbours where out side at 10.30pm on a weekday. he was directed to my house by them i think he drove up and down my road with red and blue on and that brought them out, all it would of taken then is for constable rush to ask where the m.bike lived.
it only a short st so who know's.

Any way will let yall no what happens on monday.

He Rob give me a buzz when you wana ride 0211535072

Ragingrob
27th March 2008, 21:35
Yeh aparntly my concerned neighbours told him : "HA"
He said when he came down my st all my neighbours where out side at 10.30pm on a weekday. he was directed to my house by them i think he drove up and down my road with red and blue on and that brought them out, all it would of taken then is for constable rush to ask where the m.bike lived.
it only a short st so who know's.

Any way will let yall no what happens on monday.

He Rob give me a buzz when you wana ride 0211535072

Sweet bro yeah I enjoyed the ride last weekend!

Ditto - 0211523159

Brett
27th March 2008, 21:49
Hey mate, good luck. WOuld have to say, definitely do not talk about a race exhaust sytem. Just say that the exahust note is very loud and it was like this when you bought it and it has been scrutinised for a WOF and passed and that this is indicative of many 250cc motorbikes.
Also, do not use the comment about coasting in nuetral. Just note that you take as much care as possible to avoid disruption to others while moving about.

Good luck!

NOMIS
27th March 2008, 22:08
Cheers mate, will do theres a girl i work with who has a degree in law shes going to have a look she thinks its pretty stupid case of theirs any way.

EVERY ONE THANKS FOR THE HELP. AND ADVICE

shingo
27th March 2008, 22:47
From what you told me on sunday, the case sounds pretty flawed and i doubt you'll get convicted.
As everyone else has said, don't tell them it's a race exhaust, just mention it is non-factory, but has still passed a wof.
I reckon something along the lines of the third letter is best, short and to the point. Last thing the courts want is you wasting their time evenmore than the cop already has.

Oh, and i enjoyed the ride on sunday too. You ain't too bad a rider, and i'd be keen to go out again anytime.

NOMIS
28th March 2008, 07:49
yeh bro hard.
That was my first ride out of auckland aye. definatly my longest was heaps of fun. better than filtering through traffic every day. :-)

Badjelly
28th March 2008, 09:05
Just curious: are you going to fit a quieter exhaust?

NOMIS
28th March 2008, 09:43
Just curious: are you going to fit a quieter exhaust?

cant afford it, but am still waiting to hear from blade about the silencers he was gunna make for it.

Krayy
28th March 2008, 09:54
One word of advice....

never admit to anything or offer more information than that that is requested.

i.e.
Don't admit that it has a race exhaust...only say that the exhaust is what was on it when purchased.

Don't use the words "when they had found me"...sounds guilty (maybe say, "when the officer knocked on my door")

Do use the changing down as explanation for the louder exhaust note, but don't mention rev ranges as you sound like a hoon.

Do look nice and be well mannered...judges like well presented defendants

Take a puppy...it will make you look sweet and innocent :innocent:

NOMIS
28th March 2008, 10:03
One word of advice....

never admit to anything or offer more information than that that is requested.

i.e.
Don't admit that it has a race exhaust...only say that the exhaust is what was on it when purchased.

Don't use the words "when they had found me"...sounds guilty (maybe say, "when the officer knocked on my door")

Do use the changing down as explanation for the louder exhaust note, but don't mention rev ranges as you sound like a hoon.

Do look nice and be well mannered...judges like well presented defendants

Take a puppy...it will make you look sweet and innocent :innocent:



lol yes i will be in my rossie leathers, or maybe some Ghost rider gears??
Nah ill be in suit and tie i got work afterward so will have to be.
Thanks, will take your advise

Badjelly
28th March 2008, 10:08
@@@@@@@@@@

Badjelly
28th March 2008, 10:11
cant afford it, but am still waiting to hear from blade about the silencers he was gunna make for it.

Oh yes, you're "everybody hates me!!! :-(" & "shut the f*** up!!!!!!!".

I hope you get that sorted soon. :niceone:

NOMIS
28th March 2008, 10:23
Oh yes, you're "everybody hates me!!! :-(" & "shut the f*** up!!!!!!!".

I hope you get that sorted soon. :niceone:

Thats me... :2thumbsup I went and saw Blade last week still havnt heard back from him. If you see this blade ive got the money aside for you and still waiting :-)

Swoop
28th March 2008, 10:28
Don't admit that it has a race exhaust...only say that the exhaust is what was on it when purchased.
Correct. It is AN exhaust that is fitted to the bike which has passed a WOF inspection without any issues. Stress that point.

Sanx
28th March 2008, 10:30
Do use the changing down as explanation for the louder exhaust note, but don't mention rev ranges as you sound like a hoon.

I would disagree with that last statement. The point he made was perfectly valid. A little 250cc 4-pot screaming along at 9,500 rpm might sound like it's having the tits revved off it (i.e. being ridden by a danger to society), but given the engine's redline is 19,000 rpm it's only running at half its designed speed. Making a comparison to driving a car at 3,500 revs is a valid method of explaining how perfectly normal actions can appear to the ill-informed as something completely different.

If NOMIS uses the comparison as an explanation as to why it sounded like he was going fast, then it will work in his favour. Something like:

"The sound my motorcycle makes often gives a false impression of speed, especially in situations where visibility is restricted. The engine is designed to redline at 19,000 rpm. The bike's gearing is matched to this; for example, 100kph in top gear equates to 10,000 rpm [don't say this if you're on your learner's licence]. This may sound excessive, but given the engine's design parameters it's perfectly normal. A normal family car's engine will have a redline of around 7,000 rpm. It would be considered normal to drive a family car with the engine between 2000 and 3500 rpm. This equates to between 6000 and 10,000 rpm on my motorcycle.
Most drivers equate the engine note they hear with the speed of the car. A rapidly rising engine note denotes strong acceleration. An engine revving hard denotes high speed. Given it was dark, and by the officer's own admission he could not see me after I crested the hill, this perception has led the officer to believe I was travelling considerably faster than I was. Well, that and the fact he's got a tiny penis."

NOMIS
28th March 2008, 10:44
. Well, that and the fact he's got a tiny penis."[/QUOTE]

hahahaha yeh that should work, cant believe someone witha tiny penis.
He was actualy really nice there where 6 cop cars in my road, I live right next to waitakere headquaters.
So i guess he had to do something considering they where wasting something like 10police officers time. I also live next door to a cop. whom i dont get along with incredably well.

PJ_tpl
28th March 2008, 11:36
yo simoooon. Day off monday. court then fish yah?

NOMIS
28th March 2008, 11:39
hmmm yeh i can scam a day off work i guess hahaha fishing sounds good but might have to fit that headlight, i don't no guess i could take a annual. just hope that i am seen straight away.
Chur.

Winston001
28th March 2008, 11:53
Okay Nomis......bummer. This is a serious charge.

The police don't have to clock you at a specific speed - all they have to do is describe the way you were riding (including noise) and the conditions at the time. The police are skilled at describing dangerous speeds/driving so be prepared for some exaggeration. For example they may say they were travelling at 120kpm through surban streets at night and couldn't gain ground on you.

Here are a few thoughts to help you.

If you are going through a defended hearing then your letter is only of help as notes for yourself. Nothing to prevent you submitting it in evidence but what you are going to have to do is be sworn in and give oral evidence to the Court. And the Police Prosecutor can cross-examine you.

You appear to have already admitted you were the rider being pursued by the constable so if he identifies you as the person arrested, you can't easily argue it was someone else. You could have if you'd refused to do more than give name occupation and address when interviewed.....but most of us don't think of that at the time.

Driving at a Dangerous Speed has a mandatory 6 months loss of licence (from memory) if you are convicted.

Don't tell the Court that you gained 80m on the police - that's like admitting you were going much faster than a pursuing police car!!

If you are polite and respectful in giving evidence and stop yourself getting angry with the police prosecutor, the judge may give you the benefit of the doubt and convict of exceeding the speed limit. You might even be acquitted.

MaxB
28th March 2008, 11:59
I have read the documents. Just some random thoughts.

The best outcome for you is that the cop is a no show. It happens more than you think due to staffing crises or emergencies. But you would be very, very lucky to get off.

The problem is that your fate depends on what judge you get.

The worse case is when they decide to make an example of you. The cop’s word is considered gospel so you are up against it. They are experienced in presenting evidence. They will state that you admitted traveling 80 kph and that they had to go looking for you.

I think you have to present yourself to the judge as someone who is a good member of society who did a one-off stupid thing and promise it won't happen again.

You might try explaining about the bike how it is a slow J-spec learner bike engineered to sound like the racers so it makes a lot of noise with no go. So people might think it faster than it is.

I would recommend some proper legal advice rather than relying what is on here. I hope it goes well for you. Good Luck.

NOMIS
28th March 2008, 12:01
Cheers.

Yes in the police statement it says he was in pursuit of me in speed excessing 100kmph, My dad has a v8 commodore and ive nailed it time and time again up that road trying to see if what he said is tru and no way i hell did he get that fast the fastest i got out of the v8 was 95km but i cant exactly bring that up in court can I.
I will be polite and respectfull. the thing is if I said it wasnt me I could of got off it no bike gear on the bike was cold ect, And down the side of my house throught the gate. But yes to late now as you have said.
My mum also has a Turbo caldino TRD model and i cant even get that to 100kmph around the street so who knows maybe the cop was on drugs at the time???

Patrick
28th March 2008, 16:26
Correct. It is AN exhaust that is fitted to the bike which has passed a WOF inspection without any issues. Stress that point.

Not necessarily... is it the pipe that actually went through the testing process? Or is it one fitted after removing the sewing machine sounding one that passed the WOF????



I would recommend some proper legal advice rather than relying what is on here. I hope it goes well for you. Good Luck.

Without reading the whole thing, some good advice right here. Discuss with legal aid your findings and issues and see what they think (for free). Be aware though, they might like to take it on just so they can get on the gravy train and be paid for any and every appearance they make for you.... even if you're as guilty as sin... but in this case, clearly two sides to the story... Seek full disclosure including notebook entries and ask about a transcriptor copy of the recordings from the Communications Centre relating to this "sort of Claytons" pursuit.

NOMIS
28th March 2008, 18:06
yeh have done this thanks patrick.
Ive taken the help i have got from here and i am going to show a duty solicitor on the day and see what he thinks,
A girl at work read what was on there whom has a law degree and she agrees with one of the posts with the notice number as the attachment and added a few things but she said it all depends if the judge can comprehend how a motorbike works or if he or she is a prick or not.

Winston001
28th March 2008, 21:01
You could apply for legal aid but since you are working.......:crybaby:

Talk to the Duty Solicitor by all means, good idea.

Incidentally, anyone who thinks legal aid for this type of offence is a gravy train needs their head examined. The legal aid system is falling to pieces because it is so badly paid and in some NZ courts, there are no lawyers available for legal aid at all.

Patrick
31st March 2008, 09:59
Incidentally, anyone who thinks legal aid for this type of offence is a gravy train needs their head examined.

Not necessarily this case...

Was thinking more of the burglar I caught red handed with the duvet full of electronics as he came out the door of the house he was burgling.... That got dragged through the legal aid system for ages, with multiple appearances and a fully defended hearing..... WTF?????

Shame the dog handler arrived 1 minute too late - now that would have been a "sentence"!!!

Edbear
31st March 2008, 10:13
Not necessarily this case...

Was thinking more of the burglar I caught red handed with the duvet full of electronics as he came out the door of the house he was burgling.... That got dragged through the legal aid system for ages, with multiple appearances and a fully defended hearing..... WTF?????

Shame the dog handler arrived 1 minute too late - now that would have been a "sentence"!!!


Hope he got slapped with a really big, wet bus ticket...

Patrick
31st March 2008, 11:14
Hope he got slapped with a really big, wet bus ticket...

No no no... that might have hurt the poor wee chap. You are so harsh!!! Last I heard, he was put on tax payer funded management courses to advance his job prospects. He is now a president..

















of the Black Power...

slopster
31st March 2008, 15:14
Having been through a similarly bullshit ticket last year I'll be willing to bet that the police call your bluff and take it to court, then pull out a couple of days before so you probably won't need to show up.

That letters way too long and boring. Just give them the facts:
They didn't record your speed on any equipment and based the dangerous speed on the noise they heard (what kind of training has he done that qualifies him to judge speed based on noise? etc etc).
You admitted doing 80kmh so you fucked yourself on that one but that shouldn't be dangerous speed.
And don't wank on about how loud the bike is. I'd just say that it revs higher then a car which makes it sound fast if your not familiar with bikes.

The policeman has to prove you're guilty not the other way round and he'd have a hard job doing that.

Ting Tong
31st March 2008, 18:44
The Police can and will give evidence that your bike was going at a certain speed. All the cop has to show is that he has experience in this field and then its up to the court if they think that the Police has proved their case. And yes the Police have to prove that you are guilty but the main fact that they have gone out of their way to charge you goes someway towards it. You have nothing to lose in hearing what they have to say but remember that if you are found guilty then you have to pay court costs aswell as a fine. :crybaby:

McDuck
31st March 2008, 18:50
Well?

Do did it go?

homer
31st March 2008, 19:01
go to court and you "dont recollect saying anything about the speed "
80?

get the pic
its just hear say !

Ragingrob
31st March 2008, 19:24
Simon fill us in!

Donor
31st March 2008, 20:09
A beer says he's going to sell the outcome at $10 via PM to help pay any fines that may have been incurred!

Mully
31st March 2008, 20:15
A beer says he's going to sell the outcome at $10 via PM to help pay any fines that may have been incurred!

Shit, that's a good idea.

Donor
31st March 2008, 20:16
Shit, that's a good idea.

Me and my big goddam mouth...

...can I patent an idea??

My licensing rates for KBers would be very reasonable...

Mully
31st March 2008, 20:19
Me and my big goddam mouth...

...can I patent an idea??

My licensing rates for KBers would be very reasonable...

Too late, posting on an internet forum is like pissing in a swimming pool. Once it's in. there's no getting it out.

carver
31st March 2008, 20:19
try getting off sustained loss of traction?
i dont think anyone has ever got off that....yet...

Hellraiser
1st April 2008, 07:40
LOL ............ still no up date















must of denied him bail

Swoop
1st April 2008, 07:59
Hope he took his toothbrush and soap-on-a-rope...

gijoe1313
1st April 2008, 08:21
Wonder if they are auctioning off his little ol'hornet? :innocent: Shucks, guess its like the usual "did he/didn't he" guessing game! :sweatdrop

slimjim
1st April 2008, 08:28
Simon fill us in!

:hug: we still awaiting :whistle:

NOMIS
1st April 2008, 08:29
HI GUYS sorry for late replys... havnt been near a comp I still got my licence but i have to reapear for another defendant hearing so the police officer can call my neighbors ( the witnesses) hopefully they drop out.
The police prosector looked bemused reading the case so hopefully thats a good sign.
Thanks for all you help my next apperance is the 27th May

NOMIS
1st April 2008, 08:31
And no gi joe my bike staying with me.

I have got a k7 gsx-r light on it now man it looks differnt. lol.
I waited at the court for 5hours for my name to be called.
Next time i go ill be taking a lawyer from my work so I have some one on one legal advice.
Sorry guys my comp at home was on dial up speed and was playing up ive just got to work now.

gijoe1313
1st April 2008, 08:43
dun dun dun! Glad to hear the little ol'hornet still be with you! Need piccies since this thread is useless without pics! :devil2:

Patrick
1st April 2008, 09:44
...
get the pic
its just hear say !

Bush lawyers...:wacko::brick::slap:

No photos...

Anything he says is not hearsay. He said "80."

Me, telling him that you said blah blah, is an example of hearsay.... 3rd hand and unreliable, such is the Chinese Whisper theory...

Winston001
3rd April 2008, 12:57
If you have access to a lawyer at work.......why didn't you tell us that in the first place....??? Of course if the lawyer simply has a degree and no experience in traffic cases, s/he won't know much more that you.

Get the lawyer to call the prosecutor and see if they will drop the prosecution or reduce the charge to "excess speed". That is a lot less serious than dangerous speed. All part of plea bargaining - which never happens.....right??

Winston001
27th April 2008, 02:34
Sooo....update please??

HungusMaximist
27th April 2008, 09:19
NOMIS I've never met you, is that picture in your profile your bike?

Biggles2000
27th April 2008, 09:34
Good luck next month.

titirangi
27th April 2008, 11:04
yeah dude, good luck.

NOMIS
27th April 2008, 20:30
NOMIS I've never met you, is that picture in your profile your bike?

Long time since I been back on this thread sorry for missing the posts people have made.

And yes hungus the black hornet is mine. whys that?

skidMark
27th April 2008, 20:43
Youll be sweeeet honey. Ill be there for you sweety

Honda fags....<_<