Extra power = Safer bike.

[HTFU]

I have always struggled with the statement "the bike has enough power to get you out of trouble".

Have heard it said in many conversations over the years where the person is suggesting the extra power makes it a safer option. Car salesmen in particular and just today in a local bike shop. "The engines not MotoGP but has enough power to get you out of trouble".

What does it actually mean ? The "Power" part could cover engine power, top speed, torque and acceleration and the "Trouble" I guess could mean other vehicles and obstacles on the road. Or is the extra power needed to get the bike out of the ditch or a wheel slide/skid?

I have always felt more people have got into "trouble" because a bike is very powerful, than have been removed from danger because of a bikes powerful characteristics. I would say a fair few that have had to use the bikes power to get out of trouble, were in fact in trouble in the first place because they couldn't proficiently use the bikes power.

Perhaps then a more accurate take on this generalised statement of a bikes power should be...

"Enough power to get you out of trouble and more than enough to fuck you up"

So what do you think - Has the "enough power" spoken of, got more people into "trouble" than it has got people out of "trouble"

Yes - the extra power will create more pain than pleasure.
NO - the extra power will save you more times than it tries to kill you.

[Grub]

Agree with you 100%. Engine size seems to be more about dick size and wank-factor. Why buy a thou when a 600 with 105hp is about twice as much power as you need to "get out of trouble"?

[Kirill357]

Agree with you 100%. Engine size seems to be more about dick size and wank-factor. Why buy a thou when a 600 with 105hp is about twice as much power as you need to "get out of trouble"?

Said owner of 600cc. Why dont you then change your bike to 250cc :lol:

[Grub]

Said owner of 600cc. Why dont you then change your bike to 250cc :lol:

Wank-factor of course

[Disco Dan]

In the words of Tim the "tool man" Taylor...

"more power!! Ugh Ugh Ugh !"

[The Pastor]

This is a stupid poll.

[martybabe]

My large capacity motorcycles power has got me outta trouble loads a times, when the wifes on a mission to cause me pain, or the daughters after my money, or the dog needs walking. I fire up the gsx and I'm gone man..nooo trouble.

Could I get outta trouble that fast on a two fiddy ? I think not ! :yes:

[Teflon]

Agree with you 100%. Engine size seems to be more about dick size and wank-factor. Why buy a thou when a 600 with 105hp is about twice as much power as you need to "get out of trouble"?

Engine size = torque.. which your 600 has fuck all of.

[howdamnhard]

Well my 250cc certainly doesn't have enough power or torque to get me out of trouble especially on the open road and motorways.I could do do with another 500cc.I value torque more than power and prefer controlling the bikes speed via the throttle.It's true more power can get you in trouble if your not used to it but it also gives you the option to get out of trouble quicker by using a bikes one main advantage over a car i.e. acceleration.

[Rogue]

True acceleration can help but I don't quite understand the meaning
What a stupid poll :whocares:

[Paranoid Android]

this is a hard topic that will devide a community. the bigger the engine the faster you will go. the bigger the engine the more ability it has to pull you out of the shit.

so the question is will the bigger engine be able to pull you out of the shit it just got you into :devil2:

[shafty]

Depends on the maturity or skill of the Rider, but NICE to have it available.......

[Gremlin]

Power is lots of fun... and 600's are boring and weak...

Thous have lots of power, lots of fun... then you get caught doing something you shouldn't have been doing... and the fun stops. :pinch:

[scumdog]

Power is OK - but if you're doing 1,800rpm and 60kph when you need to open 'er up to get out of the way of a logging truck all the power in the world ain't going to help a lot if you're not ready for the hazard presented on front of you.

Of course if you ride a Harley the above scenario isn't a problem....

[Animal]

" ...enough power to get you out of trouble."

Well, I had one of WA's Federal Police telling me that if I had less power, I wouldn't have been able to accelerate at the rate I did, and wouldn't now be obliged to make a financial contribution to the state revenue department.

His point of view: Less power is better. Scooters are more than enough for most riders, and anything more than a 250 is overkill.
My point of view: I disagree with him. I want abundant power available when I have some exhausted and half-awake road-train driver bearing down on me at 80kmh over the posted speed limit. If it's a matter of choosing between survival and becoming another dead thing stuck through the structure of a Kenworth's 'roo bar, then give me all the power in the world - and I'll pay the fine because it still beats being dead!

That was worth less than 2 cents, but I blame inflation for that.

[McDuck]

Of course if you ride a Harley the above scenario isn't a problem....


yea they dont rev that high.

[Grahameeboy]

yea they dont rev that high.

They don't even have a rev counter do they...just need to count the "thuds" in your head...

[Grahameeboy]

Used properly extra power means you can overtake without stress, quicker so keeping hazards to a minimum..with my SV I love the effortless grunt...you don't have to think hard about passing etc...unlike say a 250 or even some 600's...

Yes in wrong hands dangerous but a 50cc is dangerous...

[Subike]

go sit behind a logging truck at 100k on a wet day,
abreast any ride that has low to medium power,
enjoy the wonderfully clean spray envelope you will be in.
If you have never experianced this, then dont comment on power needed.
Power is not needed to take you to a terminal velocity of a jet fighter, its needed to keep you away from the crap that comes off the rear of vehicles On small to medium powered rides,you are forced to stay behind because your scooter is just plain slow.
do you enjoy sitting in that turbulent air behind a bus?
Is it fun to try and see ahead of that camper in front of you for potential hazzards?
I like to be able to stay in the front of vehicles with a distance I control between me and what will stop me.
Give me enough power to stay safe on the open road, now thats around 50+ IMHO.
Town? nimbileness to avoid pedestrians on the footpath!

[Bonez]

go sit behind a logging truck at 100k on a wet day,
abreast any ride that has low to medium power,
enjoy the wonderfully clean spray envelope you will be in.
If you have never experianced this, then dont comment on power needed.
Power is not needed to take you to a terminal velocity of a jet fighter, its needed to keep you away from the crap that comes off the rear of vehicles On small to medium powered rides,you are forced to stay behind because your scooter is just plain slow.
do you enjoy sitting in that turbulent air behind a bus?
Is it fun to try and see ahead of that camper in front of you for potential hazzards?
I like to be able to stay in the front of vehicles with a distance I control between me and what will stop me.
Give me enough power to stay safe on the open road, now thats around 50+ IMHO.
Town? nimbileness to avoid pedestrians on the footpath! Hell, my old '76 550F has enough oomph to avoid those situations and has so for the 22 odd years I've owned it.

[sinfull]

go sit behind a logging truck at 100k on a wet day,
abreast any ride that has low to medium power,
enjoy the wonderfully clean spray envelope you will be in.
If you have never experianced this, then dont comment on power needed.
Power is not needed to take you to a terminal velocity of a jet fighter, its needed to keep you away from the crap that comes off the rear of vehicles On small to medium powered rides,you are forced to stay behind because your scooter is just plain slow.
do you enjoy sitting in that turbulent air behind a bus?
Is it fun to try and see ahead of that camper in front of you for potential hazzards?
I like to be able to stay in the front of vehicles with a distance I control between me and what will stop me.
Give me enough power to stay safe on the open road, now thats around 50+ IMHO.
Town? nimbileness to avoid pedestrians on the footpath!

Agreed but its not really on topic, you cant say your in trouble when plodding behind a logging truck (apart from the odd 2 kilo chunk of bark headed for ya visor)
Anyone who has done a few miles will tell ya, that power gives you the option of riding out of trouble in many different scenarios ! If some blind prick pulls out on ya and is about to t bone ya being just one example !

Ask the trail riders how they feel on an underpowered bike, if they get into a powerslide ! And dont say that ya shouldnt be powersliding a road bike lol been there done that two up (and i was pillion) was pleased as punch when the bike had enough power to drag us out of trouble as i looked down at the ditch only feet away ! Speed was a factor in getting us in trouble, along with not knowing the roads, wrong line etc, but even a 250 could get up to that speed ! but then thats all ya would get !

[Wingnut]

Engine size = torque.. which your 600 has fuck all of.

What he said! I like torque. Its nice to be able to just twist away and not worry bout down shifting. Mind you I have spent a bit of time on a 675 lately and that has a nice amount of torque.

[Bonez]

Bigger bikes deliver the power needed in a much more instanteous and relaxed fashion than medium capacity bikes. I would suggest some of us get a kind masocistic pleasure ringing the guts out of smaller capacity machines:devil2:

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the pillion/gear haulling aspect.(Oops sinfull has)

[Goblin]

Engine size = torque.. which your 600 has fuck all of.My old 600 has plenty enough grunt to get me out of trouble. :Pokey:

[sinfull]

Bigger bikes deliver the power needed in a much more instanteous and relaxed fashion than medium capacity bikes. I would suggest some of us get a kind masocistic pleasure ringing the guts out of smaller capacity machines:devil2:

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the pillion/gear haulling aspect.

Haha as ya do Bones as ya do, i got this great option on my one, called a rev limiter , tends to make ya a tad laps and give it full noise to the limit before changing up ( only in the first 5 gears though lol )

[Bonez]

Haha as ya do Bones as ya do, i got this great option on my one, called a rev limiter , tends to make ya a tad laps and give it full noise to the limit before changing up ( only in the first 5 gears though lol )Tis tis.....:spanking:

With the GB only having around 145km top speed I generally avoid main state highways as much as possible if I can, but then you come across other hazards. Around town its proven its worth.

[smokeyging]

I personally think it should be law for everyone wanting to ride a bike to go to an approved riding school, for half the prangs out there has got to be inexperience. i dought that the percentage of machine failures or what the cc rating is will be the problem. once you develop a bad habit its darned hard to get out of it. as for more power, yes, it can get you out of trouble, but it can get you in a power of shit too.

[sinfull]

Tis tis.....:spanking:

With the GB only having around 145km top speed I generally avoid main state highways as much as possible if I can, but then you come across other hazards. Around town its proven its worth.

Yeah ya got to ride to the bikes limits, have a little in reserve so ya can ride out of trouble ! The less the top speed, the slower the shit happens but it happens nontheless !
Have that problem with Heidi's 225 , has nothing in reserve at 100 k's, so that one could well be gone real soon !

[mark247]

I think more power is safer to an extent. For example a GN250 is probably less safe than a 400cc motorcycle in a lot of situations. But in all the situations i have been in on my vfr400, or my old fzr400, i have never been in a situation where i have thought i have needed more power. I think to an inexperienced rider more power than a 400cc sportbike is going to be more dangerous, not safer.

[Gubb]

Power is OK - but if you're doing 1,800rpm and 60kph when you need to open 'er up to get out of the way of a logging truck all the power in the world ain't going to help a lot if you're not ready for the hazard presented on front of you.

Of course if you ride a Harley the above scenario isn't a problem....

:Pokey:
Is that because the logging truck is going faster than you are?

[Grub]

Some of the justtifications here are funny. C'mon people your deluding yourself saying more powerful is safer.

If that was the case, the new motorcycle licensing rules would not have learners on low powered bikes. Reading the new rules thread, nobody thought it was a silly idea to limit power to new riders.

[Bonez]

Some of the justtifications here are funny. C'mon people your deluding yourself saying more powerful is safer.Not unlike folk insisting low powered bikes are safer. It's all a matter of degree. IE not black and white or cut and dry. It may be safer for a larger proportioned person to be on a bigger bike than tucked up on a GN250 for instance.

Anyway dealers need riders to own high powered bikes to shift all those sticky expensive tyres every 6,000kms ;).

[madandy]

Extra power compared to what?
A Ginny 250 lacks the power to help you out of a spot of bother at speed and a Gixxer thou has much more than enough at virtually any speed.
For me a I4 600 lacks midrange muscle though is plenty fast enough.
When condidering power & torque I try to ignore peak figures so I choose a bike based on it power delivery - IE strong midrange. 130kw & 100+Nm is no use to me when its not delivered until 10,000rpm and 150km/h, even in 1st gear! Though what a rush that must be :D and yeah I know those sorta bikes do have a lot of grunt at 3000-8000rpm too but the temptation to keep winding it on is just too great :cry:
Maybe HTFU, you need to HTFU and forget what other people say about your choice in bike and how powerful it is :P

[sinfull]

Some of the justtifications here are funny. C'mon people your deluding yourself saying more powerful is safer.

If that was the case, the new motorcycle licensing rules would not have learners on low powered bikes. Reading the new rules thread, nobody thought it was a silly idea to limit power to new riders.

Learners yes !! Even to a point the mid life boys who have the coin to spend have the licence allbeit 25 yrs since they've ridden, go out and grab a R1 or a 1450 and out power their ability !
Not much anyone can do about the older generation who have held their licence since they did it on a step through 50 at age 15 !
But the folk who have never ridden, i feel the hew rules will be great !
Even an aproved Full on driving course being compulsory as someone just mentioned !
Was hard case watching Heidi do her learners ! Never even sat on a bike, all she had to do was a 5 hour BHS thing in a car park and away she went, did the test and they handed her a lerners licence !! She looked at me and said holy crap i cant go out on the road yet ! A couple of hous wiggling through cones is only gonna give ya balance skills not riding skills !

[DMNTD]

I think more power is safer to an extent. For example a GN250 is probably less safe than a 400cc motorcycle in a lot of situations. But in all the situations i have been in on my vfr400, or my old fzr400, i have never been in a situation where i have thought i have needed more power. I think to an inexperienced rider more power than a 400cc sportbike is going to be more dangerous, not safer.

Agreed re GN vs VFR however where a bit more power is useful is if you're in the middle of an over taking manoeuvre and have maybe misjudged the distance of an oncoming vehicle...being able apply a quick squirt without changing gears is helpful and quicker if there's some torque beneath you....therefore safer.
Have been commuting 400kms to work lately on our ZX14...bloody fantastic I tells ya. Basically I can click on through into 6th gear and cruise.

BTW...I believe that 50cc scooters are dangerous re lack of power.

[slimjim]

yup reckon that it's a safe guard have the abilty to use what is sitting waiting to be released, when truely needed , however offset it's an extra bit of weight to pull up if used wrongly

[Speedracer]

What other people said

Scooter ==> more power is safer
125 ==> more power is safer
low end 250 eg GN250 ==> when you're overtaking someone you can get into hairy situations i.e. more is safer. But you won't get any tickets cos you will really struggle to go over 110
high end 250 or 400cc sports (40-60hp)==> perfect for the open road.

IMHO the only other reason you need power to 'get out of trouble' is if you're trying to outrun :Police: Either way that extra power is more likely to get you into trouble... Assuming you're actually using it.

I ride a high end 250 so I'm a bit biased. I like being able to push start my bike and lift/fix the engine without help of lifting gear, and the light weight is great for the twisties.

[Goblin]

The most terrifying ride I've ever been on was from Taupo to to Wanganui on the back of a BIG Harley. We pulled out to overtake, there was all this noise and vibration but very little forward propulsion. Next thing there was oncoming traffic!:shit: I thought it was all over. This happened everytime we overtook anything. Then when we got to the twisty bits it was scraping the floorboards in every turn. Big powerful bike with lots of CCs and HP yes. Safe ride? I think not. Give me a wee screaming 600 any day!

[FROSTY]

I think its all about exprience. For an inexperienced rider more power will get them into shit a heck of a lot more often than get them out of it.
On the other hand an experienced rider with a powerfull bike has an extra OPTION available in a nasty situation.

[henry]

As with everything, it depends.

I have just gone from a 28hp bike to a 123hp bike. Here are a couple of observations...

There is nothing more frustrating than following cars doing 20ks under the speed limit on an under powered bike. Frustration can lead to doing dumb shit. Dumb shit leads to dead motorcyclist.

I never did dumb shit but having the extra power to overtake when and where I want means I'm way more relaxed. +1 for more power.

A scenario that I find quite common is following a car in the fast lane, they aren't gonna pull over so I move to the inside lane and accelerate to pass them. There has been shit loads of times when I have done this and the car has pulled over moments later. Not having the power to accelerate into a position to be squashed has saved my arse a couple of times. -1 for more power.

[Hahn]

How about,

Motorbikes are not dangerous, its the riders that put themselves in that situation (myself included).

In my line of work, "A good tradesman never blames his tools".
I am sure a few of you have heard this before.

Same could be said for riding. :buggerd:

[Bonez]

How about,

Motorbikes are not dangerous, its the riders that put themselves in that situation (myself included).

In my line of work, "A good tradesman never blames his tools".
I am sure a few of you have heard this before.

Same could be said for riding. :buggerd:Let a motorcycle stand up by itself with out anyone holding it or on a stand and what happens?

Now sit on it in the same situation. What happens?

[FROSTY]

Let a motorcycle stand up by itself with out anyone holding it or on a stand and what happens?

Now sit on it in the same situation. What happens?
Don't get the point you are making.
A bike in repose is just an ananimate object.
Without outside forces its unable to do owt.

[Bonez]

Don't get the point you are making.
A bike in repose is just an ananimate object.
Without outside forces its unable to do owt.Just call it this weeks wee puzzle.

[madandy]

What other people said

Scooter ==> more power is safer
125 ==> more power is safer
low end 250 eg GN250 ==> when you're overtaking someone you can get into hairy situations i.e. more is safer. But you won't get any tickets cos you will really struggle to go over 110
high end 250 or 400cc sports (40-60hp)==> perfect for the open road.

IMHO the only other reason you need power to 'get out of trouble' is if you're trying to outrun :Police: Either way that extra power is more likely to get you into trouble... Assuming you're actually using it.

I ride a high end 250 so I'm a bit biased. I like being able to push start my bike and lift/fix the engine without help of lifting gear, and the light weight is great for the twisties.

250 and 400 are gutless. Unless you're ringing their tits off at 10,000rpm & over, way over in the 250's case. They just don't respond at cruising speeds in top gear or one down...hell even 2 down.
I can and do lift my 750 front and rear to remove wheels etc.
At 183cm and weighing 115kg you wont find me on one of them shrunken kiddies bikes regardless of how flickable they are. So it's horses for courses, we agree to disagree and you are missing out on a whole lot of real world torque.


The most terrifying ride I've ever been on was from Taupo to to Wanganui on the back of a BIG Harley. We pulled out to overtake, there was all this noise and vibration but very little forward propulsion. Next thing there was oncoming traffic!:shit: I thought it was all over. This happened everytime we overtook anything. Then when we got to the twisty bits it was scraping the floorboards in every turn. Big powerful bike with lots of CCs and HP yes. Safe ride? I think not. Give me a wee screaming 600 any day!

Sounds like the Hog rider needs to change to a more sporty bike or adjust his riding style to suit the knuckle dragger.


As with everything, it depends.

I have just gone from a 28hp bike to a 123hp bike. Here are a couple of observations...

There is nothing more frustrating than following cars doing 20ks under the speed limit on an under powered bike. Frustration can lead to doing dumb shit. Dumb shit leads to dead motorcyclist.

I never did dumb shit but having the extra power to overtake when and where I want means I'm way more relaxed. +1 for more power.

A scenario that I find quite common is following a car in the fast lane, they aren't gonna pull over so I move to the inside lane and accelerate to pass them. There has been shit loads of times when I have done this and the car has pulled over moments later. Not having the power to accelerate into a position to be squashed has saved my arse a couple of times. -1 for more power.

I know the exact scenario. I have had positive result from the extra power in that I was out the other side before the dumb cage had completed its manoeuvre.


How about,

Motorbikes are not dangerous, its the riders that put themselves in that situation (myself included).

In my line of work, "A good tradesman never blames his tools".
I am sure a few of you have heard this before.

Same could be said for riding. :buggerd:

There is the argument that if 130kw bikes were unavailable or much more difficult to obtain then fewer fuckups by the unwary would happen. maybe that's not the tools' fault but you get my meaning? Its like that gun argument - if people were denied the guns then they would be able to shoot in the first place...I don't agree entirely with it but there ya go.


Let a motorcycle stand up by itself with out anyone holding it or on a stand and what happens?

Now sit on it in the same situation. What happens?

You get your leg squashed?

[mark247]

250 and 400 are gutless. Unless you're ringing their tits off at 10,000rpm & over, way over in the 250's case. They just don't respond at cruising speeds in top gear or one down...hell even 2 down.


That is a loud of rubbish. I can be sitting at 7000rpm on my bike doing 90kmh in top gear and open up the throttle and accelerate and pass easily.

[Swoop]

Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

I'd rather have too much than not enough.
A nice box of torque under your arse is at least there. If it isn't there in the first place, you cannot use it.:shifty:

[Nagash]

Well seeing as i've never ridden a bike over a 250 I gotta say, trying to pass people on open roads is an absolute bitch.

They're sitting at 90k's and you set up to pass, 100m's clear space set up to go around, drop down a gear, crank on the throttle full bore and... you wait. There is no acceleration it just sorta creeps up slowly. It's given me some close calls before with me either having to slap on the brakes and drop back behind the car again or just shimey over to the centre line and hope everyone gets outta the way..

Other then that, around town for example, a 250 has enough low-end acceleration to get you out of trouble such as cars pulling out at you or pedestrians jumping at you.


Personally I reckon more power does get you out of trouble, but as many others have said. It's all about the rider. I thought Frosty hit it on the head where he said the power gives you another OPTION. Learnt from a few AWNR's that it's all about giving yourself as many options as possible.

[McJim]

What's all this 'ere power everyone is talking about then?

[Bonez]

What's all this 'ere power everyone is talking about then?Something thats available when you ride the GSX ;).

[madandy]

That is a loud of rubbish. I can be sitting at 7000rpm on my bike doing 90kmh in top gear and open up the throttle and accelerate and pass easily.

Yeah. ok. Your right. 400's have loads of torque.
I've ridden a couple of NC30's and unless yours is special...its gutless, but good for a 400.

[mark247]

Yeah. ok. Your right. 400's have loads of torque.
I've ridden a couple of NC30's and unless yours is special...its gutless, but good for a 400.

All im saying is that at 100kmh in 6th, im doing around 6000 - 7000rpm and when i pass i dont have to drop down a cog because a VFR's power basically 7000rpm+. Im sure some gixxer thou would be much more peppy but saying all 400's are gutless is unreasonable

[fishb8nz]

I used to ride in the uk, years ago. Started back on a GN125 and found I couldn't maintain 100 km on the open road and that was dangerous. Now got a 650 and it's so much more safer. on one occasion, I went into a corner way too hot, with oncoming traffic, so there was no opportunity to run wide, so I just gunned it and got around the corner at a speed much faster than I could have presumed. that time, power certainly helped me.

[MVnut]

Too much power is only ever just enough..............well almost enough, gimme moooooore !!!:2thumbsup:clap::whistle:

[doc]

Too much power is only ever just enough..............well almost enough, gimme moooooore !!!:2thumbsup:clap::whistle:
Well stop using kerosene in the Lada and try 91

[madandy]

All im saying is that at 100kmh in 6th, im doing around 6000 - 7000rpm and when i pass i dont have to drop down a cog because a VFR's power basically 7000rpm+. Im sure some gixxer thou would be much more peppy but saying all 400's are gutless is unreasonable

Most 4 cylinder bikes start to really come on cam around 7-8000rpm.
The difference between a 400cc NC30 coming on cam and a torquey engine [whether through sheer cc's or engine characteristics) is night and day.
Gearing has quite a role to play also. Once you've had a good ride on somthing that really pulls in top at the sort of rpm and road speed we're talking about
then you'll realise just what I'm getting at.

[MVnut]

Well stop using kerosene in the Lada and try 91

Trabant actually...........

[mark247]

Most 4 cylinder bikes start to really come on cam around 7-8000rpm.
The difference between a 400cc NC30 coming on cam and a torquey engine [whether through sheer cc's or engine characteristics) is night and day.
Gearing has quite a role to play also. Once you've had a good ride on somthing that really pulls in top at the sort of rpm and road speed we're talking about
then you'll realise just what I'm getting at.

Ok fair enough. Just from what i have experienced i have never felt my VFR hasnt had enough power to get me out of any tricky situations. When it comes to racing im sure i could do with more. But i think it is substantial in my opinion for everyday riding. Chur.

[doc]

Trabant actually...........

OK I actually meant trabant but couldn't remember the name.

[HTFU]

Maybe HTFU, you need to HTFU and forget what other people say about your choice in bike and how powerful it is :P

Its not really about me my man, happy with anything slightly more powerful than a GN (was just a little underpowered for my touring, around but only just !). My little Soursaki does the business and has more than enough power to allow me to ride 'The Pace'.

Good discussion going on here, which is choice.

[Rogue]

Power or the lack of it have nothing to do with getting you out of trouble
It forsight, reaction time and a fu%kin loud horn that are the main factors
Ride like everyone out there is an idiot even you and you will do ok
I rest my case :laugh: I still think the poll is a waste of time :rockon:

[quickbuck]

Anyway dealers need riders to own high powered bikes to shift all those sticky expensive tyres every 6,000kms ;).

Gee, I only get 5000k out of my rear tyre on a medium powered bike....

[quickbuck]

The difference between a 400cc NC30 coming on cam and a torquey engine [whether through sheer cc's or engine characteristics) is night and day.
.
It is due to the V4 configuration.
V engines inherently develop more torque.

[madandy]

It is due to the V4 configuration.
V engines inherently develop more torque.
More torque, or torque at lower rpm?
I'm changing from a 750cc I4 to a 900cc V2 and I know I ain't getting more of anything but the romance, lol.

[HTFU]

Power or the lack of it have nothing to do with getting you out of trouble
It forsight, reaction time and a fu%kin loud horn that are the main factors
Ride like everyone out there is an idiot even you and you will do ok
I rest my case :laugh: I still think the poll is a waste of time :rockon:

Thread is asking people for their opinion on the fact that a lot of people say that lots of power in a bike is a safety thing i.e it gets them out of trouble. Poll suggests its not just as black and white as you suggest it is, that is, if your post was on topic.

Plenty of threads out there about riding safe etc where you can preach forsight, reaction time and a fucking loud horn. :spanking:

[Skyryder]

Have not read all of this thread but too little power 'can' get you into trouble.

Power will 'keep' you out of trouble more than 'get' you out of it.

Skyryder

[mark247]

More torque, or torque at lower rpm?
I'm changing from a 750cc I4 to a 900cc V2 and I know I ain't getting more of anything but the romance, lol.

Ride a FZR400 then get on a NC30 and you will realise what torque does lol

[Chrislost]

Power or the lack of it have nothing to do with getting you out of trouble
It forsight, reaction time and a fu%kin loud horn that are the main factors
Ride like everyone out there is an idiot even you and you will do ok


What if you were halfway past a truck on a two lane motorway and it pulls into you?
Gas or brakes?
enough power to haull your ass outa there.
or enough brakes to do a stoppie and fall under the wheels?

[vifferman]

It's evident from reading through all the posts that virtually the only time when you need "more power to get you out of trouble" is when you've pulled out to pass another vehicle and have got yourself in trouble due to not allowing enough overtaking room.
The phrase "more power to get you out of trouble" conjures up images of innocently minding your own business when suddenly a huge truck is bearing down on you, but luckily your enormously powerful bike accelerates you to a bazillion km/h in a poofteeenth of a second, saving you from certain death.

I've been riding since 1973, and I've never been in that situation. I have, however, been in the position (car and bike) of stupidly pulling out to pass and not having enough power to accelerate quickly. But that's OK - because we're not supposed to exceed the speed limit to pass anyway. :rolleyes: So all you need is enough power to get you to 100km/h, uphill.

I tellsya wot though: it's a lot less tiring riding a bike with a bit of grunt, or a car with a few torques under the bonnet. :yes:

[wharfy]

What if you were halfway past a truck on a two lane motorway and it pulls into you?
Gas or brakes?
enough power to haull your ass outa there.
or enough brakes to do a stoppie and fall under the wheels?

When it happend to me I braked as hard as I could (without doing a stoppie - but some smoke of the rear tyre !!) I had given him plenty of room so apart from shitting my pants no harm was done.

If you are closer to the front than the back and DO have plenty of power cracking the throttle open may be the best bet.

The only bikes I have ever seen that couldn't decelerate quicker than they could accelerate were on a drag strip.

[Badjelly]

It's evident from reading through all the posts that virtually the only time when you need "more power to get you out of trouble" is when you've pulled out to pass another vehicle and have got yourself in trouble due to not allowing enough overtaking room....

Possibly, but that doesn't completely invalidate the "power to get you out of trouble" argument. As a rider of a somewhat gutless bike, there have been a couple of times in the last few weeks when I decided to "just get out of there" and I would have liked a teensy bit more power to do so more comfortably. (And yes, on one of those occasions--but not the other--I had got myself into the situation I wanted to get out of through my own poor judgement.)

The poll is still rubbish, though. My answer is maybe/no: I might need more power, but all the other buggers will just get in trouble with it.

[mark247]

yea the poll is rather pointless. Having more power from 20hp to 70hp is going to get you out of trouble. But having more power from 20hp to 180hp is not going to help the same way.

[wharfy]

I guess it's like the bomb - better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it :)

[xwhatsit]

I tellsya wot though: it's a lot less tiring riding a bike with a bit of grunt, or a car with a few torques under the bonnet. :yes:

Yeah, why is that? 26hp is enough for me, really. But why is it that you get so tired on long rides compared to riding a larger bike? I'm not talking about riding position or anything. It's almost like your body is subconsciously pedaling or something, somehow tensing up in an effort to make the thing go up a hill or against a headwind.

[jrandom]

Most 4 cylinder bikes start to really come on cam around 7-8000rpm.

Mine hauls arse from 3500 and stops pulling at 8500.

:yes:

Then again, I guess you can't expect much else from an engine that's essentially four 350cc aircooled thumpers lined up in a row.

[Badjelly]

Yeah, why is that? 26hp is enough for me, really. But why is it that you get so tired on long rides compared to riding a larger bike? I'm not talking about riding position or anything. It's almost like your body is subconsciously pedaling or something, somehow tensing up in an effort to make the thing go up a hill or against a headwind.

I think it just requires more concentration, which is tiring. Mind you, I wouldn't know as I have never ridden a large bike (> 250) on a long ride.

[Rosie]

But why is it that you get so tired on long rides compared to riding a larger bike? I'm not talking about riding position or anything. It's almost like your body is subconsciously pedaling or something, somehow tensing up in an effort to make the thing go up a hill or against a headwind.

Yep, willing your bike to go up hills and against the slightest puff of wind is hard work.

On flat empty sections of SH1 a small bike can be nice. Change into 6th, wind the throttle right open, and sit back and relax. It's like having cruise control :lol:

[Deviant Esq]

Yeah, why is that? 26hp is enough for me, really. But why is it that you get so tired on long rides compared to riding a larger bike?
Having just upgraded from my 250, with similar power to yours (and similar thumpiness too ;)), I've noticed this too. Longer rides are far more effortless on the ZX-6R than on my NZ250, much more relaxed, you seem to get there in a much shorter time - which is odd when I'm still cruising at the same speed as what the NZ would do. I guess the main difference for me is that since the bike weighs nearly twice what the NZ does, it moves around far less on the road due to wind and trucks going the other way, so keeping it on track is far easier. Also, when I catch up to something I can pretty much overtake it right away, whereas the NZ needed heaps of room, concentration, planning, nervousness, and a big runup to get past anything in that situation. :pinch:

Does more power get you out of trouble or into trouble? Personally, I'm on the fence. Having the ZX-6R to ride every day and knowing how ludicrusly easy it is to ride... I mean, the NZ was easy to ride too but the ZX-6R seems to handle just as well... but way more effortless because of having power... I couldn't go back to a 250. In the same way, I'm glad I didn't buy a 400 - I'm glad I test rode one first and thought "nah. Feels like a 250 with a touch more power..." Sure, people here say that 600s are too gutless, and don't have enough torque and having ridden V-twin thous I know what they mean, but the 600 feels perfect for me at this point. :love: